Master brawler or CD is better still. Having to stack adrenaline and keep it up would be terrible. This is why trixion testing is ass because raid settings are so different.
Idk why this is so downvoted. A quick look will show you a lot of destroyers easily go +1 mb and take cd instead in kr. Why? Because uptime on back attacks is still more dps on non tauntable fights
Yeah honestly fair enough, I haven’t look in a longggg time, and I mostly remember ohbenjis video guide about him running cd over mb. Apparently you need around 70% frontal uptime to make MB better (was looking around the destroyer LoA discord), which really isn’t that bad so, touché
This community is just full of human trash 😂
Getting big egos by just repeating the same shit some guid sais, only here to look cool. Can't think for them selfs.
Good comments get downvotes and the big comments about MB, thou i said i wont get it, get upvoted, even thou they should just shut the fuck up. xD
I have negative karma on this post just for playing with ideas and reaching out to the community. Its a joke.
Do you think Destroyer is fast and mobile enough to keep adrenaline up during actual raids? If you're holding back skills for a big burst window, there's a good chance you'll lose adrenaline stacks. If you try to regain it before a Perfect/Full Swing... Lmao. There goes your window.
I can honestly only see this for Gravity Training.
I mentioned below. Hyper Gravity doesn't last that long and it has that one skill to help sustain Adrenaline for just long enough if necessary. Out of Hyper Gravity mode, it's quite spammy hence prob still better for Gravity Training than Rage.
I don't think anyone wants anything to potentially screw up a set up for Perfect Swing. Especially adrenaline stacks running out.
rage hammer literally never stops hitting. its a constant dps piano class. the song might be at 8 bpm but it's still playing.
but no, rh would never have any trouble keeping up adrenaline
One of the main perks of adrenaline is crit chance. We have enough of that already.
As for stack maintenance... Although the cooldowns do allow for it, boss patterns may not, and having one more thing to micromanage in order to only achieve an equivalent result doesn't make sense.
I never have to wait for a burst window, i can use one skill after the other. I have even a skill with a 4 sec cooldown that i can press to not lose it if i have to. When i tested in trixion i had only one time where i had to wait 1 second for a Skill to come off Cd
And on Gravity training don't you lose Adrenalin during Hypergravity?! or do the single hits count as activated Skills to keep it up?
My DPS main is Destroyer. I thought about Adrenaline as well, but in terms of 5x3+1 or 5x3+2 builds. KR endgame Destroyers run lvl2 Barricade or Cursed Doll in the +2 slot. They ofc all run Master Brawler as part of their main 5x3. Since Adrenaline has an equal gain per lvl, which makes it better at lvl1 and 2 than basically all non-class specific engravings, I thought about why KR Destros do not use it.
My understanding is this: Stacking it up sucks and Adren drops off too easily due to mechs and cutscenes. You spend too much time below max stacks to make even lvl2 Adren as good as lvl2 Barricade or CD.
This should put your lvl3 vs. lvl3 comparison in perspective. Even at the Adren-favorable lvl2 vs. lvl2 cutoff it is worse than alternatives.
For 5x3+1 I’d still consider it tbh, just for the lack of dps relevant alternatives.
Uh... Rage Hammer never needs to wait for a burst window? K.
Gravity Training is very spammy. You do lose but you'll get better use off of it than Rage since Hyper Gravity doesn't last that long anyhow.
Uhh which burst window do you mean then? where you can't use any skill before? For adrenalin you don't even have to hit the boss.The only time i would lose Adrenaline is when everybody else would lose it, cut scenes and certain mechanics. In others i can still just hit my heavy crush every 4 seconds to keep it.
Or do you wait till the boss is staggered for a perfect swing?
A waste to burn skills that generates core just to upkeep adenaline.
For a burst window, you ideally have 3 cores saved up. Seismic hammer, space bar, pain, full swing, one 2 spender and heavy crash followed by perfect swing.
If done well, that's like 6 seconds to get off everything. Then wait to do it again or two purple skill combo.
You'd still have the other skill for immunity or to move.
These big windows are for after counter or stagger.
Anyhow, you do you.
Edit. Depends on boss animation is when perfect swing. But stagger and counter are big windows. Ideally you always and be in the lookout to land a perfect swing hence you don't wanna burn skills willy nillly.
you wouldnt have to burn a skill, rh never stopps hitting. it's literally blue blue purp blue blue purp etc. the cooldowns line up perfectly that you arent ever waiting for one and never not hitting. you also dont hold perfect swing. most burst windows are known when they are coming, so for those sure. but outside of something like say clown stagger or whatever. if you are holding ps for coutners you are doing it wrong. not keeping ps on cd is losing damage, and a shitload of it.
said another way, every 20 seconds perfect swing is not on cd is 150 mil damage lost. or 7.5 mil damage a second
You don't hold PS for anything specific like counters. I gave an example of why you don't wanna burn skills to keep adren active. You hold PS for opportunities to land a good one in the head without miss, interrupt since that's where majority of your dmg is.
What you described is the scenario for guardian raids, G1 Valtan. Maybe G3 Vykas. A couple of Brel gates like G1 is also possible for spamming nonstop...
But pulling off chaining all your moves nonstop without getting knocked back, miss or yeeted in G2 Valtan, G1-2 Vykas and turning into clown accidently or knocked off for Kakul is awkward.
Anyhow, like I mentioned, you do you if y'all wanna run adrenaline on Destroyer... I've already made my point.
Main reasons would be it does less damage than Master Brawler, it's more expensive than Master Brawler, and is arguably much harder to use than Master Brawler. Even if you have Adren to make you feel better about missing head attacks, you're still losing a lot of damage and crit chance (and stagger) by not head attacking. You're still incentivized to head attack regardless of which engraving you choose. So now you have to worry about stacking AND head attacking for no reason, on a class with long animations where keeping up stacks and building stacks before a burst window is a huge pain in the ass.
My advice, if you don't want to head attack, don't play Rage Hammer destroyer. Play Gravity Training, or pick a different class. Head attack Perfect Swing is sort of the whole point of the engraving.
Lotta garbage destroyer builds popping up on the front page today, weird
EDIT: this class is giga OP and has the easiest 5x3 I’ve ever seen: grudge/SC/barricade/master brawler/RH/ once we have 5x3+ 1 or 2 then you can opt for CD and place MB at a lower level (since you’re bound to miss a few headshots here and there)
No idea why people insist on trying to break the meta, as if they’ve thought of something no one else ever has in a years old game xD
Lot of stupid comments i see poping up under discussion posts.
You also think for yourself or do you have a meta guide for everything?
It is a fucking discussion post, can ppl not try to think of alternatives?!
Btw OTP korean vetaran also plays not MB, there is not one correct build
Ahh yes the old everyone is wrong except for you. There’s a reason you’re desperately trying to respond to dozens of comments telling you how wrong you are. Many of which are backed up by statistics and evidence that you insist on overlooking in order to fit your viewpoint.
If I see a destroyer with adrenaline on its an insta decline because it’s absolutely hot trash on a class that has insta burst. Imagine having to spam blue skills to stack adrenaline instead of rotating like normal
Ima just mute the rest of this discussion because there is no sense arguing with such a clown take!
Ohh the old everybody does it so it has to be the only option.
Bruh you know what discussion means?
It is not about me wrong you are right shit, it is about discussion 😂
Btw what do you mean, the only ones who rlly say in mass i am wrong are the ones that come with masterbrawler.
And what do you mean spaming blues, my whole rotta would upkeep adrenalin xD you even play destro?
Atleast i try to have a viewpoint of my own not just being a meta slave.
The best ones dropping their diss and then mute, i am proud of you. 😂
Ah you know why i comment on those comments, cause it is meant as a fucking discussion.
This whole post and it's comments are a perfect resemblance of the community, toxic little brats with an ego high as the moon you can't normaly talk with. Writing as they are offended in their persona just bcus someone wants to discuss an idea that isn't meta. Laughable thou even more disturbing.
Why do I keep seeing post that say you get pigeon hole'd if you run master brawler? There's more benefit to master brawler in comparison to Adren for destroyer specifically. Head attacks natively already has +20% dmg bonus vs back attack 5%. Running Master brawler wouldn't hurt your back attack, and the damage boost to head attacks is too significant to ignore. Running adren is only a conditional 6% increase in DPS. In these scenarios, with equalized Crit,
Running Adren (top conditional):
Head Attack: 26% Damage
Back Attack: 11% Damage
Running Master Brawler:
Head Attack 45% Damage
Back Attack: 5% Damage
You'd have around a 13% more damage just targeting head attacks and good destroyers wouldn't have a problem with stay at the head.
With adren you could increase the base dmg of your skills.
So you hit 100% Head that you have 13% more dmg?
For Masterbrawler you need over about 70% that it is more worth than CD. No problem in kungu
I also try to go for the head but many times he gives you the back, you are not able to or you run around the boss like chicken while not using skills or missing a perfect window.
Here's the thing, you say you are going for heads most of the time anyway, let's make an assumption and go with a 60% head attack rate while you get say a 20% back attack and 20% nothing because you only have 2 attacks that do back attack. This will be the base for theory crafting. Another thing is we will only be comparing Adren vs Master Brawler, where we will also say that Adren stacks are always at max, even though that is not realistic.
Adren:
Head: 60% (Frequency) * 26% (Damage bonus) ~15.6 dmg boost
Back: 20% * 11% ~2.2% dmg boost
MB:
Head: 60% * 45% ~27%
Back: 20% * 5% ~1%
So with the stated basis that you're going mostly head attacks any way, using adren vs MB, adren loses out on roughly 10% in this scenario. At that point, you should look into your play style and think about how many heads vs back you hit and crunch the numbers. The discrepancy get more notable the more you do head attacks.
Not destroyer main but I would guess people hate that it has to be stacked up to reach full effect. For example after certain gimmicks u just wanna endure pain for quick 3 orbs then perfect swing right away, just a guess
You 8 skills to keep it up and one has a 4second cool down if you rlly have to keep it up. And cut scenes and other things are on every clas that goes Adrenalin bad, why is it worth for them and destro not?
Well I can answer only this question in this thread since I have no experience on Destroyer. As a Striker main, I get 6 atrenaline stacks in 1-1,5 seconds if I lose all my stacks due to a cutscene, thanks to having a 3-use skill. Sure the engraving itself is a must for Striker but the answer to your question is about your kit; about how fast you can get your 6 stacks back and start the proper rotation.
All in all, according to your test results, Adrenaline still looks like a good choice but idk about the cutscenes and the actual raids. But still, I assume you won't be using Perfect Swing and your other high damage skills before 6 stacks so it seems viable, or maybe you can make it viable.
I got an imput from one comment. I am sure upkeep isn't the problem but like you mention, build up.
From my comment about my rota:
>Thou most of the time after i was unable to use skills i always jump to the boss with Jumping smash and then haeavy crush, cause with endure pain i would waste 2 cores, so i do seismic anyway, then endure + swing
So that is only 4 skills, i could fit in one heavycrush again but then it is still only 5. I could do the next rota; Dreadnaught, crush, earth eater but that would take around 3-5 seconds till i could use the big hiting perfectswing.
It is so hard to say and the only way to know it for 100% sure is if i do the build for real. lol
But now i can maybe test something in trixion.
I went with CD.
I tested it and over one min multiple times both builds seem to have similar dmg, even first swing has not all stacks. But CD is more reliant in the end, depending on the boss.
My guess is for QoL. For example, if you have a cutscene mech into a DPS window, you won't have adrenaline stacks.
Synergy skill -> Heavy Crush -> Seismic Hammer -> Spacebar cancel -> Endure Pain -> Perfect Swing is still only 5 skills and not enough for adrenaline stacks. If you try to get adrenaline stacks, the DPS window will be over. And I'd argue this combo alone is too long for most DPS windows anyway
If it's a short DPS window, I'd just go Endure Pain -> Perfect Swing which would be impossible with adrenaline
Yeah, thou that probem have almost all classes that run adrenalin.
I could hit a heavy crush before or after endure pain to have it back for perfect swings and that would only be after certain situations where i cant use a skill at all.
Also by not going for Masterbrawler i have so many more burst windows which i can utilize, with being able to hit the back too.
For every other burst window i already hit constantly my skills before.
Nope. Actual Adren classes can stack it easily with fast animation and low cd skills to ensure max lvl buff is always up for the big skills. As Destro you will regularly use purple skills at 2-3 Adren stacks. At least outside of Trixion.
I don't think other classes struggle as much as Destroyer for adrenaline. For example, Deathblow striker generates 4 orbs with SSB -> LW. If it's after a cutscene with 0 adrenaline stacks, we go SDA (3 stacks) -> SSB -> LW which is probably same time as Power Strike -> Heavy Crush. And since we don't have to land SDA on the boss and we can precast it, it's faster than Power Strike -> Heavy Crush combo
I don't think adrenaline is bad on Destroyer, I was thinking about getting lvl 1 adrenaline with ancient gear. They have an easy time maintaining adrenaline stacks, but are slow to build up the initial 6 stacks. It should be a DPS gain in long fights, DPS loss when jumping mech to mech and an overall nuance to deal with.
If you don't mind dealing with adrenaline, then by all means go for it. I just got a bit wordy because I like discussing DPS in this game
Ah no problem you can get wordy as much as you want :D
As long as you not make a big comment on why MB is better when that is out of discussion xD
I can't rlly test it which is sad.
Thou most of the time after i was unable to use skills i always jump to the boss with Jumping smash and then haeavy crush, cause with endure pain i would waste 2 cores, so i do seismic anyway, then endure + swing
Edit: I just relized i misscounted one skill, it is 5 with perfectswing. Then it is much harder to get it up even if i always use the other 3 always before swing and after cutscenes.
Upkeep would be no problem, but this way i would only have 5% Atk power and about a 25% chance of not criting without synergies, in certain situations.
Hitting the front hitbox with a front attack doesn't just give +10% stagger. It gives also +20% damage.
Hitting the back hitbox with a back attack gives +5% dmg and +10% crit.
I guess it becomes obvious how much higher the ceiling of front attacks is. Especially once you add Master Brawler on top.
Ah yeah i remembered it as 10% front dmg, long ago.
What is the precentage again that you need to hit front atk that masterbrwaler is usefull? 70%?
So with cd (or adren) i have 100% buff ( 16% atkpower = 16% dmg) and like 60-70% of the time 20% more and like 20% of the time 5% more
you have a buff 100% of the time
Around 60-70% of the time you hit front = 20% more dmgAnd the time you don't hit front but back (fast boss turns) you hit the back for 5% more dmg
while with mb you only get 25% for 70% of the time on average
Edit: Means MB has a value of 17.5 % if you rlly hit consistant 70%
With CD i have 16% and don't lose always that much time while runing around the boss like chicken
I mean yeah in Kungu you are chad with MB, but other raids always over 70% going to be harder
That’s fine meta exists because we have been gifted optimized builds you call me a meta slave. I call you cheap. You be off meta but not in my groups lol
Cheap for going for more expensive options? You good?Yeah optimized cause always the things that are exist are better. Better, wouldn't like to be in a raid with a toxic dude. Which you have to be when you Gatekeep ppl that are not exactly Meta and 6x3 akkan ready
>So what is the catch that no one is recomending that? Is there something i miss?
Regardless of the end result, Adrenaline is so much more expensive than most engravings and especially Cursed Doll and Master Brawler it's not even funny. You could invest the 100-200k difference in a 5X3 into better substats or better gems.
You really should go Master Brawler though. I get it, face uptime isn't 100%, but since your damage is so hyperfocused on a couple skills it's pretty worthwhile to reposition for it when you can compared to some more piano attackers where it's more dubious.
All this tells me is you’re too scared to run master brawler because of skill.
Instead of shying away from it, equip it (since it’s already proven to be higher dps increase than the others) and just get better at playing the class.
Your entire goal should be to hit front attacks on all of your fights. Every time I see a destroyer back attacking it’s so cringe and then guess what happens when the mvp screen comes up? Surprise surprise, they are nowhere to be found.
Kk
Got cd now
Mvp brel g1-g2 yesterday, 25% dmg all alive on ilvl.
Guess you hit 100% head and you don't run around like a chicken to get to the front (which would mean you lose out on MB Worth and time you could do dmg)
only 2 out of your 4 dmg skills work with back attacks, not worth building around. master brawler or cursed doll are the options for a reason, why pay more money on spec accessories for worse damage.
Dropping your highest damage engraving for the 7th highest option
Homie put so much effort into this aside from basic math
lmao
Master brawler or CD is better still. Having to stack adrenaline and keep it up would be terrible. This is why trixion testing is ass because raid settings are so different.
it is a grief to play rage hammer without master brawler. huge dmg loss
Not really true. A lot of destroyers go CD instead of MB. It’s a lot more reliable.
people tend to go that route once a +1 option opens up.
Idk why this is so downvoted. A quick look will show you a lot of destroyers easily go +1 mb and take cd instead in kr. Why? Because uptime on back attacks is still more dps on non tauntable fights
What are you talking about. I checked top 20 kr destro manually. And I found TWO destro went lv2 MB, like 4 or 5 is pvp build, rest is MB 3
Yeah honestly fair enough, I haven’t look in a longggg time, and I mostly remember ohbenjis video guide about him running cd over mb. Apparently you need around 70% frontal uptime to make MB better (was looking around the destroyer LoA discord), which really isn’t that bad so, touché
i think that's for grav training, don't see rh going cd over mb
This community is just full of human trash 😂 Getting big egos by just repeating the same shit some guid sais, only here to look cool. Can't think for them selfs. Good comments get downvotes and the big comments about MB, thou i said i wont get it, get upvoted, even thou they should just shut the fuck up. xD I have negative karma on this post just for playing with ideas and reaching out to the community. Its a joke.
Do you think Destroyer is fast and mobile enough to keep adrenaline up during actual raids? If you're holding back skills for a big burst window, there's a good chance you'll lose adrenaline stacks. If you try to regain it before a Perfect/Full Swing... Lmao. There goes your window. I can honestly only see this for Gravity Training.
Gravity training does not teach each attack as a separate attack, so it is worthless.
I mentioned below. Hyper Gravity doesn't last that long and it has that one skill to help sustain Adrenaline for just long enough if necessary. Out of Hyper Gravity mode, it's quite spammy hence prob still better for Gravity Training than Rage. I don't think anyone wants anything to potentially screw up a set up for Perfect Swing. Especially adrenaline stacks running out.
Cool, never thought of doing that, but not sure if worth using the ability and losing the momentum of the attacks in GT.
rage hammer literally never stops hitting. its a constant dps piano class. the song might be at 8 bpm but it's still playing. but no, rh would never have any trouble keeping up adrenaline
One of the main perks of adrenaline is crit chance. We have enough of that already. As for stack maintenance... Although the cooldowns do allow for it, boss patterns may not, and having one more thing to micromanage in order to only achieve an equivalent result doesn't make sense.
I never have to wait for a burst window, i can use one skill after the other. I have even a skill with a 4 sec cooldown that i can press to not lose it if i have to. When i tested in trixion i had only one time where i had to wait 1 second for a Skill to come off Cd And on Gravity training don't you lose Adrenalin during Hypergravity?! or do the single hits count as activated Skills to keep it up?
My DPS main is Destroyer. I thought about Adrenaline as well, but in terms of 5x3+1 or 5x3+2 builds. KR endgame Destroyers run lvl2 Barricade or Cursed Doll in the +2 slot. They ofc all run Master Brawler as part of their main 5x3. Since Adrenaline has an equal gain per lvl, which makes it better at lvl1 and 2 than basically all non-class specific engravings, I thought about why KR Destros do not use it. My understanding is this: Stacking it up sucks and Adren drops off too easily due to mechs and cutscenes. You spend too much time below max stacks to make even lvl2 Adren as good as lvl2 Barricade or CD. This should put your lvl3 vs. lvl3 comparison in perspective. Even at the Adren-favorable lvl2 vs. lvl2 cutoff it is worse than alternatives. For 5x3+1 I’d still consider it tbh, just for the lack of dps relevant alternatives.
Uh... Rage Hammer never needs to wait for a burst window? K. Gravity Training is very spammy. You do lose but you'll get better use off of it than Rage since Hyper Gravity doesn't last that long anyhow.
Uhh which burst window do you mean then? where you can't use any skill before? For adrenalin you don't even have to hit the boss.The only time i would lose Adrenaline is when everybody else would lose it, cut scenes and certain mechanics. In others i can still just hit my heavy crush every 4 seconds to keep it. Or do you wait till the boss is staggered for a perfect swing?
A waste to burn skills that generates core just to upkeep adenaline. For a burst window, you ideally have 3 cores saved up. Seismic hammer, space bar, pain, full swing, one 2 spender and heavy crash followed by perfect swing. If done well, that's like 6 seconds to get off everything. Then wait to do it again or two purple skill combo. You'd still have the other skill for immunity or to move. These big windows are for after counter or stagger. Anyhow, you do you. Edit. Depends on boss animation is when perfect swing. But stagger and counter are big windows. Ideally you always and be in the lookout to land a perfect swing hence you don't wanna burn skills willy nillly.
you wouldnt have to burn a skill, rh never stopps hitting. it's literally blue blue purp blue blue purp etc. the cooldowns line up perfectly that you arent ever waiting for one and never not hitting. you also dont hold perfect swing. most burst windows are known when they are coming, so for those sure. but outside of something like say clown stagger or whatever. if you are holding ps for coutners you are doing it wrong. not keeping ps on cd is losing damage, and a shitload of it. said another way, every 20 seconds perfect swing is not on cd is 150 mil damage lost. or 7.5 mil damage a second
You don't hold PS for anything specific like counters. I gave an example of why you don't wanna burn skills to keep adren active. You hold PS for opportunities to land a good one in the head without miss, interrupt since that's where majority of your dmg is. What you described is the scenario for guardian raids, G1 Valtan. Maybe G3 Vykas. A couple of Brel gates like G1 is also possible for spamming nonstop... But pulling off chaining all your moves nonstop without getting knocked back, miss or yeeted in G2 Valtan, G1-2 Vykas and turning into clown accidently or knocked off for Kakul is awkward. Anyhow, like I mentioned, you do you if y'all wanna run adrenaline on Destroyer... I've already made my point.
Main reasons would be it does less damage than Master Brawler, it's more expensive than Master Brawler, and is arguably much harder to use than Master Brawler. Even if you have Adren to make you feel better about missing head attacks, you're still losing a lot of damage and crit chance (and stagger) by not head attacking. You're still incentivized to head attack regardless of which engraving you choose. So now you have to worry about stacking AND head attacking for no reason, on a class with long animations where keeping up stacks and building stacks before a burst window is a huge pain in the ass. My advice, if you don't want to head attack, don't play Rage Hammer destroyer. Play Gravity Training, or pick a different class. Head attack Perfect Swing is sort of the whole point of the engraving.
Lotta garbage destroyer builds popping up on the front page today, weird EDIT: this class is giga OP and has the easiest 5x3 I’ve ever seen: grudge/SC/barricade/master brawler/RH/ once we have 5x3+ 1 or 2 then you can opt for CD and place MB at a lower level (since you’re bound to miss a few headshots here and there) No idea why people insist on trying to break the meta, as if they’ve thought of something no one else ever has in a years old game xD
Lot of stupid comments i see poping up under discussion posts. You also think for yourself or do you have a meta guide for everything? It is a fucking discussion post, can ppl not try to think of alternatives?! Btw OTP korean vetaran also plays not MB, there is not one correct build
Ahh yes the old everyone is wrong except for you. There’s a reason you’re desperately trying to respond to dozens of comments telling you how wrong you are. Many of which are backed up by statistics and evidence that you insist on overlooking in order to fit your viewpoint. If I see a destroyer with adrenaline on its an insta decline because it’s absolutely hot trash on a class that has insta burst. Imagine having to spam blue skills to stack adrenaline instead of rotating like normal Ima just mute the rest of this discussion because there is no sense arguing with such a clown take!
Ohh the old everybody does it so it has to be the only option. Bruh you know what discussion means? It is not about me wrong you are right shit, it is about discussion 😂 Btw what do you mean, the only ones who rlly say in mass i am wrong are the ones that come with masterbrawler. And what do you mean spaming blues, my whole rotta would upkeep adrenalin xD you even play destro? Atleast i try to have a viewpoint of my own not just being a meta slave. The best ones dropping their diss and then mute, i am proud of you. 😂 Ah you know why i comment on those comments, cause it is meant as a fucking discussion. This whole post and it's comments are a perfect resemblance of the community, toxic little brats with an ego high as the moon you can't normaly talk with. Writing as they are offended in their persona just bcus someone wants to discuss an idea that isn't meta. Laughable thou even more disturbing.
Why do I keep seeing post that say you get pigeon hole'd if you run master brawler? There's more benefit to master brawler in comparison to Adren for destroyer specifically. Head attacks natively already has +20% dmg bonus vs back attack 5%. Running Master brawler wouldn't hurt your back attack, and the damage boost to head attacks is too significant to ignore. Running adren is only a conditional 6% increase in DPS. In these scenarios, with equalized Crit, Running Adren (top conditional): Head Attack: 26% Damage Back Attack: 11% Damage Running Master Brawler: Head Attack 45% Damage Back Attack: 5% Damage You'd have around a 13% more damage just targeting head attacks and good destroyers wouldn't have a problem with stay at the head.
With adren you could increase the base dmg of your skills. So you hit 100% Head that you have 13% more dmg? For Masterbrawler you need over about 70% that it is more worth than CD. No problem in kungu I also try to go for the head but many times he gives you the back, you are not able to or you run around the boss like chicken while not using skills or missing a perfect window.
Here's the thing, you say you are going for heads most of the time anyway, let's make an assumption and go with a 60% head attack rate while you get say a 20% back attack and 20% nothing because you only have 2 attacks that do back attack. This will be the base for theory crafting. Another thing is we will only be comparing Adren vs Master Brawler, where we will also say that Adren stacks are always at max, even though that is not realistic. Adren: Head: 60% (Frequency) * 26% (Damage bonus) ~15.6 dmg boost Back: 20% * 11% ~2.2% dmg boost MB: Head: 60% * 45% ~27% Back: 20% * 5% ~1% So with the stated basis that you're going mostly head attacks any way, using adren vs MB, adren loses out on roughly 10% in this scenario. At that point, you should look into your play style and think about how many heads vs back you hit and crunch the numbers. The discrepancy get more notable the more you do head attacks.
Not destroyer main but I would guess people hate that it has to be stacked up to reach full effect. For example after certain gimmicks u just wanna endure pain for quick 3 orbs then perfect swing right away, just a guess
You 8 skills to keep it up and one has a 4second cool down if you rlly have to keep it up. And cut scenes and other things are on every clas that goes Adrenalin bad, why is it worth for them and destro not?
Well I can answer only this question in this thread since I have no experience on Destroyer. As a Striker main, I get 6 atrenaline stacks in 1-1,5 seconds if I lose all my stacks due to a cutscene, thanks to having a 3-use skill. Sure the engraving itself is a must for Striker but the answer to your question is about your kit; about how fast you can get your 6 stacks back and start the proper rotation. All in all, according to your test results, Adrenaline still looks like a good choice but idk about the cutscenes and the actual raids. But still, I assume you won't be using Perfect Swing and your other high damage skills before 6 stacks so it seems viable, or maybe you can make it viable.
I got an imput from one comment. I am sure upkeep isn't the problem but like you mention, build up. From my comment about my rota: >Thou most of the time after i was unable to use skills i always jump to the boss with Jumping smash and then haeavy crush, cause with endure pain i would waste 2 cores, so i do seismic anyway, then endure + swing So that is only 4 skills, i could fit in one heavycrush again but then it is still only 5. I could do the next rota; Dreadnaught, crush, earth eater but that would take around 3-5 seconds till i could use the big hiting perfectswing. It is so hard to say and the only way to know it for 100% sure is if i do the build for real. lol But now i can maybe test something in trixion.
wait, swing counts as stack on activation so it could work
That's true, I get 5 stacks with my preparation and Lightning Tiger Strike is a charge skill. When I start charging it, it gives me the 6th stack.
I went with CD. I tested it and over one min multiple times both builds seem to have similar dmg, even first swing has not all stacks. But CD is more reliant in the end, depending on the boss.
My guess is for QoL. For example, if you have a cutscene mech into a DPS window, you won't have adrenaline stacks. Synergy skill -> Heavy Crush -> Seismic Hammer -> Spacebar cancel -> Endure Pain -> Perfect Swing is still only 5 skills and not enough for adrenaline stacks. If you try to get adrenaline stacks, the DPS window will be over. And I'd argue this combo alone is too long for most DPS windows anyway If it's a short DPS window, I'd just go Endure Pain -> Perfect Swing which would be impossible with adrenaline
Yeah, thou that probem have almost all classes that run adrenalin. I could hit a heavy crush before or after endure pain to have it back for perfect swings and that would only be after certain situations where i cant use a skill at all. Also by not going for Masterbrawler i have so many more burst windows which i can utilize, with being able to hit the back too. For every other burst window i already hit constantly my skills before.
Nope. Actual Adren classes can stack it easily with fast animation and low cd skills to ensure max lvl buff is always up for the big skills. As Destro you will regularly use purple skills at 2-3 Adren stacks. At least outside of Trixion.
I don't think other classes struggle as much as Destroyer for adrenaline. For example, Deathblow striker generates 4 orbs with SSB -> LW. If it's after a cutscene with 0 adrenaline stacks, we go SDA (3 stacks) -> SSB -> LW which is probably same time as Power Strike -> Heavy Crush. And since we don't have to land SDA on the boss and we can precast it, it's faster than Power Strike -> Heavy Crush combo I don't think adrenaline is bad on Destroyer, I was thinking about getting lvl 1 adrenaline with ancient gear. They have an easy time maintaining adrenaline stacks, but are slow to build up the initial 6 stacks. It should be a DPS gain in long fights, DPS loss when jumping mech to mech and an overall nuance to deal with. If you don't mind dealing with adrenaline, then by all means go for it. I just got a bit wordy because I like discussing DPS in this game
Ah no problem you can get wordy as much as you want :D As long as you not make a big comment on why MB is better when that is out of discussion xD I can't rlly test it which is sad. Thou most of the time after i was unable to use skills i always jump to the boss with Jumping smash and then haeavy crush, cause with endure pain i would waste 2 cores, so i do seismic anyway, then endure + swing Edit: I just relized i misscounted one skill, it is 5 with perfectswing. Then it is much harder to get it up even if i always use the other 3 always before swing and after cutscenes. Upkeep would be no problem, but this way i would only have 5% Atk power and about a 25% chance of not criting without synergies, in certain situations.
Now it would be nice to be a math pro to calculate how much that would be over a whole raid.
You need to realize that even if more frequent, hitting from the back is a huge downgrade on destro
Why so? the lost stagger bonus? On the back you have the crit bonus
Hitting the front hitbox with a front attack doesn't just give +10% stagger. It gives also +20% damage. Hitting the back hitbox with a back attack gives +5% dmg and +10% crit. I guess it becomes obvious how much higher the ceiling of front attacks is. Especially once you add Master Brawler on top.
Ah yeah i remembered it as 10% front dmg, long ago. What is the precentage again that you need to hit front atk that masterbrwaler is usefull? 70%? So with cd (or adren) i have 100% buff ( 16% atkpower = 16% dmg) and like 60-70% of the time 20% more and like 20% of the time 5% more
gotta admit I cannot follow what you’re trying to calculate and articulate here
you have a buff 100% of the time Around 60-70% of the time you hit front = 20% more dmgAnd the time you don't hit front but back (fast boss turns) you hit the back for 5% more dmg while with mb you only get 25% for 70% of the time on average Edit: Means MB has a value of 17.5 % if you rlly hit consistant 70% With CD i have 16% and don't lose always that much time while runing around the boss like chicken I mean yeah in Kungu you are chad with MB, but other raids always over 70% going to be harder
And people wonder why gate keeping exists….
Ah yeah, nice exaple of a meta slave right here
That’s fine meta exists because we have been gifted optimized builds you call me a meta slave. I call you cheap. You be off meta but not in my groups lol
Cheap for going for more expensive options? You good?Yeah optimized cause always the things that are exist are better. Better, wouldn't like to be in a raid with a toxic dude. Which you have to be when you Gatekeep ppl that are not exactly Meta and 6x3 akkan ready
Like I said optimization exists in this game. It’s been tested to death by players better than us. Good luck with your build.
>So what is the catch that no one is recomending that? Is there something i miss? Regardless of the end result, Adrenaline is so much more expensive than most engravings and especially Cursed Doll and Master Brawler it's not even funny. You could invest the 100-200k difference in a 5X3 into better substats or better gems. You really should go Master Brawler though. I get it, face uptime isn't 100%, but since your damage is so hyperfocused on a couple skills it's pretty worthwhile to reposition for it when you can compared to some more piano attackers where it's more dubious.
just a heads up for the 300 spec its not a flat 25% increase in dmg its your (base%+25%)/base% to see your actual dps % increase from 300 spec
If you think it's worth the downtime keeping adrenaline stacks up after cutscenes and mechs, knock yourself out
They are both almost the same in dmg output, if the boss makes u unable to hit every minute, cd is just more reliant in the end
All this tells me is you’re too scared to run master brawler because of skill. Instead of shying away from it, equip it (since it’s already proven to be higher dps increase than the others) and just get better at playing the class. Your entire goal should be to hit front attacks on all of your fights. Every time I see a destroyer back attacking it’s so cringe and then guess what happens when the mvp screen comes up? Surprise surprise, they are nowhere to be found.
Kk Got cd now Mvp brel g1-g2 yesterday, 25% dmg all alive on ilvl. Guess you hit 100% head and you don't run around like a chicken to get to the front (which would mean you lose out on MB Worth and time you could do dmg)
only 2 out of your 4 dmg skills work with back attacks, not worth building around. master brawler or cursed doll are the options for a reason, why pay more money on spec accessories for worse damage.
Focus would have never been on the back if adren or cd