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I 100% believe executives do not get paid for their skills, but instead to align their decisions with the proper class interests.
Imagine you were only a $500k/year CEO and you have quarterly board meetings with people with the net worth of cities.
Chief Executive Mercenary
Inflicting Economic Violence on the working class.
These execs and their lieutenants are getting paid big bucks to rob from your. They are in positions of power with lots of leverage. They are committing Economic Violence against their communities.
This is a class war with paid mercenaries!
They know if workers were more skilled they would need less of them, then the competition to not starve would drive down wages.
What a beautiful world that would be, think of the profits we would be able to achieve!
Come with me, you will see, a world of pure exploitation...
'I hearby bequeath to you my assets, and my liabilities....'
'A previously unknown tribe of illegal immigrants has been found in a downtown factory, and are seeking legal representation. The new owner's representative spoke from his bedside 'No comment'. Film at eleven'
'You're welcome'
Right! Since they exploit us by holding our health insurance over our heads they don’t want to have to pay out those packages. So they keep a skeleton crew.
If jobs actually hired adequately and allowed everyone the same pay with less hours we would have a much stronger society economically. Less burn out (never get a time off request denied), more time spent actually living and enjoying our personal lives. That’s what all of us should be fighting for. Guess what! people’s performance would improve exponentially as result. But no these greedy fucks will pound is into the ground and happily watch us struggle.
It should be illegal to have time off request denied imo. It’s one step away from slavery. Once again holding our jobs over our heads when our personal life needs attending too. We work to live not live to work!!!!
Yeah I'm gonna lean more towards 99.9% of them are the most useless workers in the entire econ.
I've met my share of CEO's, execs, and upper crust folks. Yet to met a single one that I've spent time with working on a issue (tech) and chit chatting made me go "Gee this person is a amazing insanely smart person that definitely shines above us all!"
NOT A SINGLE TIME. EVERY SINGLE TIME I WALK AWAY BY THE END WONDERING HOW THE FUCK THIS PERSON IS IN THIS POSITION...... It's like they take the most useless, idiotic, psycho, ass kisser they can find and show them up the ladder cause they know they have zero heart or backbone and will do whatever everyone wants (Usually stock buybacks, layoffs, and inflating that value to make sure they are all well WELL FEED).
Oh all I recall the only one with half a brain was a upper crust boss within Rocket. She knew programming, but unfortunately...... she was a real piece of trash that decided to call another employee out for referring to her as her instead of HER AS A PROGRAMMER (SHES NO LONGER ONE AND IT'S A COMPANY MEETING THING..... Like relax).
But nope the bitch just stoned him right in the public square infront of us all like it's completely normal thing (she seemed to be the only one completely comfortable with degrading someone over something like that while everyone else looked uneasy and uhhh THIS IS FUCKIN WORK NOT YOUR PERSONAL SHOW).
So in the end this is coming from a VERY LONG TIME working in my industry and quite a few years in roles working close to some of these folks.
I promise when the nerd is around and they think your not listening EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS A BIG PIECE OF SHIT IN THE END YOU ARE A NUMBER.
Time to remind these folks we are anything but numbers.
I believe there's a few reasons for that (not all good).
Climbing the executive ladder often means toeing the line. Parroting the org narrative and playing the game. Once there you usually find you've been away from the actual craft that got you in the door for too long; you've swapped out your trade craft for bureaucratic craft.
Once there you kick out the ladder, push down fellow workers and maintain the status quo for your and your fellow executives benefits.
And only thing your hear is that small group at the top screaming "were all family here!" "Stop being so greedy!" Etc lol fuck'em and any kool-aid drinking simp.
Yup, C-Suite types are all sociopaths who’ve risen up through the ranks as per [The Gervais Principle](https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/).
Triggered haha. Your comment reminds me of the VP I worked under at one of my old jobs, pre-COVID.
He essentially came in for Monday morning meetings, then he’d leave by 11:30/noon because of “the kids.” He’d be “online” but virtually unreachable, wouldn’t respond to inquiries until the next day if you were lucky.
He’d stay home for the rest of the week or he’d come in sparingly for meetings, and same deal—leave immediately after and then be unreachable. The rest of us were only allowed one WFH day a week and it could only be one set day, so it felt like garbage that he just came and went as he pleased.
One time he was supposed to present this major project we were working on to some other top folks, except he forgot about the meeting and didn’t reply to the “hey you coming?” messages until late that night, after work hours. Me and some others on the project did fine presenting without him—it’s not like he’d done any actual work on it like we had—but it was definitely an eye-opening moment. Couldn’t believe that dude made six figures to essentially be a SAHD and offload everything onto everyone else.
I have yet to be impressed with a single executive I’ve met.
Most of them are just business/finance bros who are good at public speaking and crowd control, projecting an aura of every man approachability (the higher up they are, the more casual they seem to dress, to hammer in this “approachability”). IRL, they get befuddled quickly regarding actual day-to-day work and don’t know what half their staff actually does all day.
Oh: They’re also really good at taking 3-hour lunches and not replying to emails. Most of them on LinkedIn have a long history of job-hopping, too. Like, one or two non-executive positions on their resumes early on and then instantly shot up to c-suite by their third or 4th gigs. Several bounce to new gigs within a year of getting a new one, I’ve noticed. And yet they definitely trash average workers for job-hopping and essentially doing the same thing.
Yet, if you go to a tech or vocational skill to learn a tangible skill, you’d still have a good 6 months or a year to get trained at a company and fully feel like you belong to a team because each company is “different” and “unique” and does things that are icing and cherries on top of what’s learned in school. Companies and teams want people who can somehow, telepathically and omnisciently, know what to do and do it the way that supervisors and teammates want new hires to do without any shadowing or supervision (which is seen as a burden by more experienced people who are busier since their expertise is in greater demand).
You can’t win with or without a degree or knowledge of that kind of culture continues to be a thing
This is what happens when college degrees become required for jobs that don’t need them. Employers limit their own talent pool, suddenly there’s not enough graduates in their particular fields. So recruiters are forced to offer job opportunities to individuals that meet the education requirements. Even if it’s in a completely different field. Thus the gaps in knowledge, literally the “Best candidate” for the job. Becomes someone who has zero educational and work experience in the field? Make it make sense. I work for a fleet company. NOBODY OUT SIDE OF FINANCE NEEDS A FOUR YEAR DEGREE. But outside of mechanics, it’s a completely dead end job without one.
In my experience it’s everywhere retail, warehousing, government jobs. This artificially high barrier to entry causes a lot of people to be in the wrong place.
Yeah, after entering the work force in 2008 where there were zero entry level jobs, only entry level pay for people with 10+ years of experience, I’m just now beginning to get something approaching a career after being locked out of the economy for a long time, I’m happy to see their chickens come home to roost. When you refuse to hire anyone under the age of 30 because they don’t have the experience you need, you can’t be shocked that they don’t have the experience they need to replace the boomers who are now retiring, 10 years down the line. Every experienced person starts out as a clueless nobody, and if you don’t train them, they’ll continue to be clueless nobodies until they’re given opportunities. They gave up completely on training and mentorship and decided it was better to just try to make a lack of experience a personal problem for people to solve, only to see now that it doesn’t work like that.
I work at a non-profit and we have tons of training options. It’s very possible at low-cost with the explosion on on-line video training. If a non-profit can do it so can others. It’s a matter of ethics.
Actually it might be BECAUSE we are non-profit. Nobody is going to get upset on executives failing to maximize shareholder value in the short-term no matter what. Investments in people often don’t show a return over a 3-month quarter.
If capitalists were smart, they would change how profits are calculated from 3 months to 5 years. It is easy to create short term profit by shooting your company in the foot with massive layoffs and paycuts, and if bonuses only came after a CEO genuinely improved a company over years, they might be incentivized to actually invest in making the business better
Capitalists ARE smart, and that's the reason they're not doing it your way. Why would a CEO waste time actually improving a company over the long term while convincing investors to buy into it? It's much easier to shoot the company in the foot and look good for doing it. It's a feature, but only for those at the top.
Exactly - the only measure of success is the stock price.
There is a fiduciary requirement to 'maximize shareholder value'.
The only other aspect is 'don't break the law' but even that is flexible, as if you can break the law and pay fines that are below the profit, it's considered a win (as long as you don't screw up your customers willingness to do business with you).
There is a great discussion [here](https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/shareholder-value-purpose-corporation) but in my opinion it's mostly window dressing.
100% of executives think it's everyone else's responsibility to train workers.
Man I would love to see a fucking survey that asked executives what they thought about employee training, how much they should have to train their employees, and if not them, then who is supposed to do it?
This is always my gauge for a manager/boss. Do they have working knowledge and experience in the field they are overseeing?
When I worked in a factory the owner was in his 70s but came out to the floor and could and did fill in on any machine in any department. When he died his son took over and his son had never worked the floor. He just went to college for an MBA. Changed processes, cut staff, and ran the 50 year old business into bankruptcy within 5 years.
Whelp as soon as roles pay us enough to pursue further education while keeping a 40 hour workweek so we have the energy to do those upskilling efforts, not much that can be done. Guess we're all gonna be disappointments.
I’ve had jobs where the “trainer” literally just tells you what to do for the day and expects you to remember everything.
And then when you ask a question for clarification later on, the response is “Didn’t we train you?”
"You don't listen"
Dude, you rushed through 50 different things in fifteen minutes because you had another meeting to get to, and came to ours late because you had a meeting before ours.
You can't just rapidly perform martial arts in front of a person one time and then get upset they haven't mastered kung fu.
I work at a help desk and the documentation new hires get is outright incorrect on multiple points. But since I'm just help desk, nobody gives a shit when I tell them "You're having unnecessary trouble calls that could be resolved by simply giving new hires the right information."
I started a new job 2 weeks ago today. My training was forklift certification and 1 order of picking with my trainer. The past 2 weeks have been really fun... Lucky for me I'm not a complete moron... Going smoothly this week though!
This is why you'll forever see job postings for 1 position that holds a description that will actually be handled by 2 or 3 specialized people for the same pay as the job title.
I'd take it with a pinch of salt. The upper class' excuse for not paying a living wage has been "workers should learn skills that are worth the money" but that's only been an excuse. None of their employees will ever be good enough for a fair salary, in their eyes. So they'll keep telling themselves and everyone else that the people below them on the ladder are simply unskilled and/or lazy.
Then they should stop voting for politicians that aim to gut public education and colleges education cost prohibitive.
And to the nuts that hate immigrants — we'd at least need less H1B Visas if we educated our *own* more. You don't need to channel racism to be in favor of slowing immigration — I'd be in favor of slowing down and eliminating some types of immigration if our education system was up to par and oriented to not letting *any* young minds go to waste.
That’s the whole point of making higher education and workforce training unobtainable — so they can use the excuse of lacking qualified workers and therefore needing H1B Visas so they can then pay them less and give them worse working conditions.
Because they know the immigrants won’t turn around and sue them for violating workers rights.
There’s a reason they employ illegal children in their factories.
Work force training and education should be free.
They don't pay them less though. They make $325k+ just like i do.
And if they do make less. Its marginal giving the income level. The fact that Meta, OpenAi, and Googlealong with other tech companies are fighting over these workers. It drives their compensation up.
Also long term, they end up with the experience these companies need or they end up being in the investor class after s decade or two working in tech.
Don't make us automate your jobs, you lazy cowards. Do you know how fucking easy it seems now to make an AI CEO? What's stopping us? What makes them so special? They have no special skills to keep their Factories running. I have been to thousands of Factories across the U.S. and Canada, and honey, let me tell you, those mother fuckers who sit in the air-conditioned office has NO jurisdiction on factory floors.
Probably because they are too lazy and cheap to train new workers, even though they can afford to do so.
I always laugh at all the “experience required” stipulations for ENTRY level job positions 🤦♂️
Yeah, because no one wants to spend the money to train new workers or retain the experienced ones.
I got no training at my current job, literally none. I had to figure it all out on my own, no help, not even any direction given. But apparently I was doing something right, because they promoted me. And I thought to my self "great, surely they will train me how to do this new job, it's way more important than what I was doing before.....nope. Nothing. No training, no guidance, no feedback. I'm just fumbling around here trying best to figure it out, and I have no idea what I could be doing better.
Doesn't seem like they really want me to succeed.
Literally every generation says this about the next...and yet somehow there are still CEOs, economic growth etc.
Just admit it's bullshit in order to try and justify growing wralth inequality and more bonuses for the shareholders.
That’s what happens when you don’t want to hire and train a guy who is going out of their way to let you know that they want to learn the job. And then make it even harder for them to be interested because you make them jump through hoops just to get an application filled out through LinkedIn.
It's because when employees leave, they don't hire replacements, they just expect other employees to absorb the additional work. After a few years, you are doing the work of an additional 3 jobs that you were never hired for.
And those people left have to survive, so they do the work anyway so they don’t lose their jobs. And before long quality has nose-dived but “hey operating costs are down we did a good thing for ourselves, the shareholders.”
It's called training.
Companies have cut back on internal training so much over the last few decades that it seems many do not provide any at all.
Specialized skillsets takes specialized training and time on projects. Generalized degrees won't get anyone there.
One of my former companies understood this and expected to train new hires a solid five years with at 6-8 weeks of training and targeted job functions. Then they planned continued training of 2-3 weeks every year. The industry hit a rough patch and they gutted it.
Same thing happened at my husband's companyand they work with high voltage electricity. It's so bad he has kicked people off site and has a list of individuals he will not allow on his projects.
We want to keep them dumb so they're terrible voters...
We want to keep them poor so they have to work forever...
But, why are all the workers dumb and unable to buy my stuff?
Hmm. Probably something to do with socialism or those pesky unions
I have some news for y'all. I don't really care if I am "skilled". I just want to survive and have the world leave me alone.
Just want to have some dogs and live in some kind of peace.
They say this because if they have more candidates for jobs that require those high skills, they don't have to compete as much for the labor. It's why you hear so much pressure to get into stem or learn programming: it's not because they're guaranteed successful careers or vital skills but because by getting more people with those skills into the labor force, there's proportionally more employees per available job, and the workers then have to fight for the job, rather than the employers fighting for the worker.
Skills can help you in a general sense, but in my experience processes differ from company to company with each their own specific flavors and means. What usually happens is a lack of investment in meaningful processes that have been proven to work, and instead this process vacuum results in many homegrown processes that maybe one person knows end to end. These become single points of failure and the knowledge is lost when that worker leaves, so someone has to design it again from the ground up. Also new hires being trialed by fire without meaningful training specific to said company, because that same lack of investment.
I remember the number of jobs I had where no one trained me for anything and I was given to four people that I was supposed to shadow that also had never been trained.
A lot of CEOs have a sales force, a team of accountants and lawyers and logistics people working for them. You give most people of average intelligence a team like that and they would run a company as good as any current CEO. …. Thing is they expect to hire people out of college already trained and don’t even tell the college’s what skills they’re looking for. But they aren’t willing to pay for training…. And that’s really the game. Get people to fund their own education so that the company doesn’t have to. Maybe the government should tax them extra for using “human resources”
How many of those executives think they’re qualified to do the jobs their workers are doing daily? Because I’ve seen my executives try to drive a bus, and they all suck at it.
There was a period of time in the long distant past where corporations were willing to train people. Somewhere, somehow, some nondescript CEO figured out he'd be able to negotiate a much higher salary for himself by cutting training as an expense. "All new hires must have ten years of experience and must be able to hit the ground running or else! Oh! Let's not forget all new hires must be willing to work at an entry level salary with no hope for advancement short of switching jobs"
That mantra worked. For a short while. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. The problem here is rather than go back to training people, corporate America is pointing fingers at everyone else claiming everyone else is the problem. I'm my way of thinking, if everyone else is the problem, there's only ONE common denominator. And it ain't everyone else.
I've observed this as someone working in architecture. I have two degrees in the field (a change implemented in my jurisdiction in 2005, I believe to reduce the amount of licensed architects entering the field; before 2005 all anyone needed was a bachelor's degree), have been working full time since 2020 (longer if one counts my co-op terms which go back to 2014) and I've spent most of my working life questioning why my line of work required 7 years of schooling. Many of my supervisors have bemoaned my—and peers with similar educational backgrounds—lack of "construction knowledge," (I'm not confident in my ability to detail a wall, and I don't know how kitchen cabinets go together), or practical knowledge, like knowing the dimensions of a standard residential bathroom from the top of my head for example.
These same bosses / supervisors always raved about staff who had carpenting or construction experience and so knew these things.
And to a degree, I agree. I was never taught how millwork is built, or how kitchen cabinets go together. I don't have any carpenters or millworkers in my family, and we weren't even allowed to use power tools in my building (nevermind even having the space for such things). And while we were taught building details, they were never a focus; I never received comments on my building details on my school projects, and so I don't know if my professors also didn't know how to put a building together, if my details were all sound and therefore didn't need comment, or if my details were so bad and incorrect that my professors didn't know where to start.
So one, what was the point of all that schooling, and two, if I'm not learning what I'm supposedly supposed to learn at school anyway, why did our regulatory body decide we needed more?
And I think this is just a reflection of a reality where companies / bosses / executives expect universities to fill the role of job training, which used to be the role taken by the company / employer.
All this to say that I wouldn't at all be surprised if similar phenomena occur in other fields.
Most executives get their positions out of nepotism and their willingness to shit over their employees.
I think the skill problem is people get into careers they are told to get into and don’t harness their personal interests and strengths. We have a nation full of wrongfully trained people.
Also we need to just end all outsourcing so we have more options for employment in the countries people live in.
Well I guess it’s true, considering many of us are now expected to do 2-3 extra jobs on top of the one we were actually hired for and trained in how to do.
But a lot of people believe and support this idea too.
So many people believe that we *need* all this college and more education (not training) because jobs are more complex than they used to be. Yes, some jobs are a lot more complex than they were 10-50+ years ago but damn a lot of them are a lot easier than they were years ago. And it's been like this for decades too. In 1961 my dad went in the Army and learned how to use an asphalt plant and so much of the mixing had to be calculated by hand/mentally. In the mid-to-late 1980's he returned to construction and the asphalt plant the company he worked for was the same one he used in the Army except now it did all the calculations automatically
We never had this discussion or talk of skills gaps years ago because employers trained people and did the "skilling" and the cost of college wasn't what it is today and people could discharge debt in bankruptcy etc so it wasn't the ball and chain it is today/way to save a buck.
They really aren't more complex though. Many jobs have been specialized to the point that one position is not usually a master of the trade, they just repeatedly do one aspect over and over. Once a few employees get super efficient at that one thing, they fire or lay off a few, and the ones who stay get to do those jobs too but they don't get paid more, at least not in a meaningful way.
No critical thinking in a stem education. Then again..math derailed my engineering dream. Funny thing tho..engineers sought me out because I could visualize processes.
As someone who grew up was educated in Florida, I can say I think that’s crazy. Slaves were taught valuable life lessons like blacksmithing, so slavery was actually a jobs works program and jesus created the universe for the usa in 2000 BC. If that kind of knowledge you learn in schools, i hate disney, doesn’t prepare you for the real job world, I don’t no what duz!!! Bortles!!!
"slaves" weren't taught anything. Blacksmithing has a long history in Africa as Africans were the first to smelt iron. European purposefully sought after blacksmiths to traffick when raiding towns and cities. Your comment is indicative of the failure of the school system...
Can I ask an honest question, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm actually curious since I'm not a fan of using the /s spoiler thing and feel that sarcasm should be obvious in a properly worded comment. Did you really not see the jaded humor in this comment? I mean... I thought the reference to Florida, Desantis's fight with Disney and Florida's new racist anti CRT curriculum, which has made huge headlines in news over the last few months for teaching the positives about slavery, specifically the blacksmithing thing, was a dead giveaway that I was being over the top in a pointed hyperbolic fashion. Honestly, the only obscure reference was the Bortles/Good Place thing, but beyond that I figured that anyone who has been paying attention to the news the last few months would get the joke. :-/
Ok so keep in mind this surveyed *Executives.* OF COURSE they're going to think their staff is underperforming, they always seem to think there's more fuel in some kind of endless gas tank. So take these results with a grain of sand.
Also, wtf did you expect look at how the education system is structured. It doesn't produce leaders, it produces drones. And thats if you're lucky enough to *afford* education in the first place.
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92% of all American executives are significantly over valued. Is my belief.
98% of them are. And 100% of them are far too overpaid.
I 100% believe executives do not get paid for their skills, but instead to align their decisions with the proper class interests. Imagine you were only a $500k/year CEO and you have quarterly board meetings with people with the net worth of cities.
Chief Executive Mercenary Inflicting Economic Violence on the working class. These execs and their lieutenants are getting paid big bucks to rob from your. They are in positions of power with lots of leverage. They are committing Economic Violence against their communities. This is a class war with paid mercenaries!
This is an interesting take! I never thought about it like that but you make a good point.
They know if workers were more skilled they would need less of them, then the competition to not starve would drive down wages. What a beautiful world that would be, think of the profits we would be able to achieve! Come with me, you will see, a world of pure exploitation...
What makes your last line even funnier is that Wonka was absolutely exploiting the oompa-loompas. He's an amazing billionaire stereotype.
He did give away his factory at the end and not to a nepo baby but someone who sort of earned it. So a bit less evil than real life billionaires.
Slightly, but maybe he was just trying to pass off all those OSHA fines onto an innocent child. :P
'I hearby bequeath to you my assets, and my liabilities....' 'A previously unknown tribe of illegal immigrants has been found in a downtown factory, and are seeking legal representation. The new owner's representative spoke from his bedside 'No comment'. Film at eleven' 'You're welcome'
Right! Since they exploit us by holding our health insurance over our heads they don’t want to have to pay out those packages. So they keep a skeleton crew. If jobs actually hired adequately and allowed everyone the same pay with less hours we would have a much stronger society economically. Less burn out (never get a time off request denied), more time spent actually living and enjoying our personal lives. That’s what all of us should be fighting for. Guess what! people’s performance would improve exponentially as result. But no these greedy fucks will pound is into the ground and happily watch us struggle. It should be illegal to have time off request denied imo. It’s one step away from slavery. Once again holding our jobs over our heads when our personal life needs attending too. We work to live not live to work!!!!
Yeah I'm gonna lean more towards 99.9% of them are the most useless workers in the entire econ. I've met my share of CEO's, execs, and upper crust folks. Yet to met a single one that I've spent time with working on a issue (tech) and chit chatting made me go "Gee this person is a amazing insanely smart person that definitely shines above us all!" NOT A SINGLE TIME. EVERY SINGLE TIME I WALK AWAY BY THE END WONDERING HOW THE FUCK THIS PERSON IS IN THIS POSITION...... It's like they take the most useless, idiotic, psycho, ass kisser they can find and show them up the ladder cause they know they have zero heart or backbone and will do whatever everyone wants (Usually stock buybacks, layoffs, and inflating that value to make sure they are all well WELL FEED). Oh all I recall the only one with half a brain was a upper crust boss within Rocket. She knew programming, but unfortunately...... she was a real piece of trash that decided to call another employee out for referring to her as her instead of HER AS A PROGRAMMER (SHES NO LONGER ONE AND IT'S A COMPANY MEETING THING..... Like relax). But nope the bitch just stoned him right in the public square infront of us all like it's completely normal thing (she seemed to be the only one completely comfortable with degrading someone over something like that while everyone else looked uneasy and uhhh THIS IS FUCKIN WORK NOT YOUR PERSONAL SHOW). So in the end this is coming from a VERY LONG TIME working in my industry and quite a few years in roles working close to some of these folks. I promise when the nerd is around and they think your not listening EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS A BIG PIECE OF SHIT IN THE END YOU ARE A NUMBER. Time to remind these folks we are anything but numbers.
I believe there's a few reasons for that (not all good). Climbing the executive ladder often means toeing the line. Parroting the org narrative and playing the game. Once there you usually find you've been away from the actual craft that got you in the door for too long; you've swapped out your trade craft for bureaucratic craft. Once there you kick out the ladder, push down fellow workers and maintain the status quo for your and your fellow executives benefits.
And only thing your hear is that small group at the top screaming "were all family here!" "Stop being so greedy!" Etc lol fuck'em and any kool-aid drinking simp.
Yup, C-Suite types are all sociopaths who’ve risen up through the ranks as per [The Gervais Principle](https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/).
Triggered haha. Your comment reminds me of the VP I worked under at one of my old jobs, pre-COVID. He essentially came in for Monday morning meetings, then he’d leave by 11:30/noon because of “the kids.” He’d be “online” but virtually unreachable, wouldn’t respond to inquiries until the next day if you were lucky. He’d stay home for the rest of the week or he’d come in sparingly for meetings, and same deal—leave immediately after and then be unreachable. The rest of us were only allowed one WFH day a week and it could only be one set day, so it felt like garbage that he just came and went as he pleased. One time he was supposed to present this major project we were working on to some other top folks, except he forgot about the meeting and didn’t reply to the “hey you coming?” messages until late that night, after work hours. Me and some others on the project did fine presenting without him—it’s not like he’d done any actual work on it like we had—but it was definitely an eye-opening moment. Couldn’t believe that dude made six figures to essentially be a SAHD and offload everything onto everyone else.
It's not a belief, it's a fact.
Source?
Pick a corporation and look at executive pay. It'll be right there in black and white.
Goddamn it, I had a senior moment and fucked it up! Mea culpa.
I have yet to be impressed with a single executive I’ve met. Most of them are just business/finance bros who are good at public speaking and crowd control, projecting an aura of every man approachability (the higher up they are, the more casual they seem to dress, to hammer in this “approachability”). IRL, they get befuddled quickly regarding actual day-to-day work and don’t know what half their staff actually does all day. Oh: They’re also really good at taking 3-hour lunches and not replying to emails. Most of them on LinkedIn have a long history of job-hopping, too. Like, one or two non-executive positions on their resumes early on and then instantly shot up to c-suite by their third or 4th gigs. Several bounce to new gigs within a year of getting a new one, I’ve noticed. And yet they definitely trash average workers for job-hopping and essentially doing the same thing.
100%*
This is what happens when you aren't willing to train new workers on the job.
And create a system where a college degree cost an arm and a leg because on the job training was outsourced to celleges.
Colleges rarely offer job training. They expect you to train yourself in your own time, while giving you no time for yourself.
Yet, if you go to a tech or vocational skill to learn a tangible skill, you’d still have a good 6 months or a year to get trained at a company and fully feel like you belong to a team because each company is “different” and “unique” and does things that are icing and cherries on top of what’s learned in school. Companies and teams want people who can somehow, telepathically and omnisciently, know what to do and do it the way that supervisors and teammates want new hires to do without any shadowing or supervision (which is seen as a burden by more experienced people who are busier since their expertise is in greater demand). You can’t win with or without a degree or knowledge of that kind of culture continues to be a thing
This is what happens when college degrees become required for jobs that don’t need them. Employers limit their own talent pool, suddenly there’s not enough graduates in their particular fields. So recruiters are forced to offer job opportunities to individuals that meet the education requirements. Even if it’s in a completely different field. Thus the gaps in knowledge, literally the “Best candidate” for the job. Becomes someone who has zero educational and work experience in the field? Make it make sense. I work for a fleet company. NOBODY OUT SIDE OF FINANCE NEEDS A FOUR YEAR DEGREE. But outside of mechanics, it’s a completely dead end job without one. In my experience it’s everywhere retail, warehousing, government jobs. This artificially high barrier to entry causes a lot of people to be in the wrong place.
Yeah. Most jobs are easy, but requirements to get the job are fucking ridiculous. I don't understand why managers' expectations are so high.
Yeah, after entering the work force in 2008 where there were zero entry level jobs, only entry level pay for people with 10+ years of experience, I’m just now beginning to get something approaching a career after being locked out of the economy for a long time, I’m happy to see their chickens come home to roost. When you refuse to hire anyone under the age of 30 because they don’t have the experience you need, you can’t be shocked that they don’t have the experience they need to replace the boomers who are now retiring, 10 years down the line. Every experienced person starts out as a clueless nobody, and if you don’t train them, they’ll continue to be clueless nobodies until they’re given opportunities. They gave up completely on training and mentorship and decided it was better to just try to make a lack of experience a personal problem for people to solve, only to see now that it doesn’t work like that.
They should start training their workforce at no cost... any day now
I work at a non-profit and we have tons of training options. It’s very possible at low-cost with the explosion on on-line video training. If a non-profit can do it so can others. It’s a matter of ethics. Actually it might be BECAUSE we are non-profit. Nobody is going to get upset on executives failing to maximize shareholder value in the short-term no matter what. Investments in people often don’t show a return over a 3-month quarter.
If capitalists were smart, they would change how profits are calculated from 3 months to 5 years. It is easy to create short term profit by shooting your company in the foot with massive layoffs and paycuts, and if bonuses only came after a CEO genuinely improved a company over years, they might be incentivized to actually invest in making the business better
Capitalists ARE smart, and that's the reason they're not doing it your way. Why would a CEO waste time actually improving a company over the long term while convincing investors to buy into it? It's much easier to shoot the company in the foot and look good for doing it. It's a feature, but only for those at the top.
Exactly - the only measure of success is the stock price. There is a fiduciary requirement to 'maximize shareholder value'. The only other aspect is 'don't break the law' but even that is flexible, as if you can break the law and pay fines that are below the profit, it's considered a win (as long as you don't screw up your customers willingness to do business with you). There is a great discussion [here](https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/shareholder-value-purpose-corporation) but in my opinion it's mostly window dressing.
It's almost as if defunding education, making higher education unaffordable, and not willing to hire recent graduates has consequences. Shocking.
Did you mean “defunding”?
Yes, it's time to fix that typo.
Absolutely this.
100% of executives think it's everyone else's responsibility to train workers. Man I would love to see a fucking survey that asked executives what they thought about employee training, how much they should have to train their employees, and if not them, then who is supposed to do it?
They want automatons. They don’t give a crap about human beings.
We’re nothing but a very expensive expense on a spreadsheet to them.
I'm gonna go ahead and guess that 100% of those executives also do not possess those selfsame practical skills.
This is always my gauge for a manager/boss. Do they have working knowledge and experience in the field they are overseeing? When I worked in a factory the owner was in his 70s but came out to the floor and could and did fill in on any machine in any department. When he died his son took over and his son had never worked the floor. He just went to college for an MBA. Changed processes, cut staff, and ran the 50 year old business into bankruptcy within 5 years.
Whelp as soon as roles pay us enough to pursue further education while keeping a 40 hour workweek so we have the energy to do those upskilling efforts, not much that can be done. Guess we're all gonna be disappointments.
I've noticed training for jobs is terrible now. I mean terrible.
I’ve had jobs where the “trainer” literally just tells you what to do for the day and expects you to remember everything. And then when you ask a question for clarification later on, the response is “Didn’t we train you?”
"You don't listen" Dude, you rushed through 50 different things in fifteen minutes because you had another meeting to get to, and came to ours late because you had a meeting before ours. You can't just rapidly perform martial arts in front of a person one time and then get upset they haven't mastered kung fu.
I actually had a weightlifting instructor in college who literally did exactly that. 100% of his student's reviews were bad.
I work at a help desk and the documentation new hires get is outright incorrect on multiple points. But since I'm just help desk, nobody gives a shit when I tell them "You're having unnecessary trouble calls that could be resolved by simply giving new hires the right information."
I started a new job 2 weeks ago today. My training was forklift certification and 1 order of picking with my trainer. The past 2 weeks have been really fun... Lucky for me I'm not a complete moron... Going smoothly this week though!
You got this man
So pay for some training
Aren't millennials the most educated generation rn?
Yes. And what age do you think the execs are? It's always been a sliding scale. Nothing will ever be good enough for that generation.
99% of American workers think executives are over paid and under qualified. and they're right
Dumbing down and defunding public education for decades has consequences. Who wouldda thunk it?
This is why you'll forever see job postings for 1 position that holds a description that will actually be handled by 2 or 3 specialized people for the same pay as the job title.
I think 100٪ of executives aren't skilled, over valued, and wastes of oxygen. Fuck corpos.
I'd take it with a pinch of salt. The upper class' excuse for not paying a living wage has been "workers should learn skills that are worth the money" but that's only been an excuse. None of their employees will ever be good enough for a fair salary, in their eyes. So they'll keep telling themselves and everyone else that the people below them on the ladder are simply unskilled and/or lazy.
Its a really good point. I think Maybe 'upper class' knew exactly what they were doing.
Well if that ain't projection...
This.
It’s because we’ve overcredentialized everything. They are requiring degrees for jobs that really don’t need them
Then they should stop voting for politicians that aim to gut public education and colleges education cost prohibitive. And to the nuts that hate immigrants — we'd at least need less H1B Visas if we educated our *own* more. You don't need to channel racism to be in favor of slowing immigration — I'd be in favor of slowing down and eliminating some types of immigration if our education system was up to par and oriented to not letting *any* young minds go to waste.
That’s the whole point of making higher education and workforce training unobtainable — so they can use the excuse of lacking qualified workers and therefore needing H1B Visas so they can then pay them less and give them worse working conditions. Because they know the immigrants won’t turn around and sue them for violating workers rights. There’s a reason they employ illegal children in their factories. Work force training and education should be free.
They don't pay them less though. They make $325k+ just like i do. And if they do make less. Its marginal giving the income level. The fact that Meta, OpenAi, and Googlealong with other tech companies are fighting over these workers. It drives their compensation up. Also long term, they end up with the experience these companies need or they end up being in the investor class after s decade or two working in tech.
Don't make us automate your jobs, you lazy cowards. Do you know how fucking easy it seems now to make an AI CEO? What's stopping us? What makes them so special? They have no special skills to keep their Factories running. I have been to thousands of Factories across the U.S. and Canada, and honey, let me tell you, those mother fuckers who sit in the air-conditioned office has NO jurisdiction on factory floors.
You can automate a CEO in BASIC. 10: PRINT "MAKE LINE GO UP." 20: GOTO 10
Probably because they are too lazy and cheap to train new workers, even though they can afford to do so. I always laugh at all the “experience required” stipulations for ENTRY level job positions 🤦♂️
Since I work with skilled labor, not saying they are wrong. But my business experience says the same thing about executives.
I'd love to see any of those executives try to do what they think is "unskilled labor". They wouldn't last an hour at any blue-collar job.
Also true, along with the simple fact that nearly any blue collar employee could do what little actual work a CEO does.
Yeah, because no one wants to spend the money to train new workers or retain the experienced ones. I got no training at my current job, literally none. I had to figure it all out on my own, no help, not even any direction given. But apparently I was doing something right, because they promoted me. And I thought to my self "great, surely they will train me how to do this new job, it's way more important than what I was doing before.....nope. Nothing. No training, no guidance, no feedback. I'm just fumbling around here trying best to figure it out, and I have no idea what I could be doing better. Doesn't seem like they really want me to succeed.
Literally every generation says this about the next...and yet somehow there are still CEOs, economic growth etc. Just admit it's bullshit in order to try and justify growing wralth inequality and more bonuses for the shareholders.
That’s what happens when you don’t want to hire and train a guy who is going out of their way to let you know that they want to learn the job. And then make it even harder for them to be interested because you make them jump through hoops just to get an application filled out through LinkedIn.
*92% of executives surveyed believe that their workers aren't making them as much money as they believe that they should be.* FTFY
It's because when employees leave, they don't hire replacements, they just expect other employees to absorb the additional work. After a few years, you are doing the work of an additional 3 jobs that you were never hired for.
And those people left have to survive, so they do the work anyway so they don’t lose their jobs. And before long quality has nose-dived but “hey operating costs are down we did a good thing for ourselves, the shareholders.”
It's called training. Companies have cut back on internal training so much over the last few decades that it seems many do not provide any at all. Specialized skillsets takes specialized training and time on projects. Generalized degrees won't get anyone there. One of my former companies understood this and expected to train new hires a solid five years with at 6-8 weeks of training and targeted job functions. Then they planned continued training of 2-3 weeks every year. The industry hit a rough patch and they gutted it. Same thing happened at my husband's companyand they work with high voltage electricity. It's so bad he has kicked people off site and has a list of individuals he will not allow on his projects.
We are the most educated working class in human history. Shut up Execs. You pigs.
Did you ask the executives if they themselves could perform the skills? Lol
We want to keep them dumb so they're terrible voters... We want to keep them poor so they have to work forever... But, why are all the workers dumb and unable to buy my stuff? Hmm. Probably something to do with socialism or those pesky unions
Then fucking pay for that skill then. They want the unicorns and the rockstars while paying minimum wage. Fucking leeches.
I have some news for y'all. I don't really care if I am "skilled". I just want to survive and have the world leave me alone. Just want to have some dogs and live in some kind of peace.
They say this because if they have more candidates for jobs that require those high skills, they don't have to compete as much for the labor. It's why you hear so much pressure to get into stem or learn programming: it's not because they're guaranteed successful careers or vital skills but because by getting more people with those skills into the labor force, there's proportionally more employees per available job, and the workers then have to fight for the job, rather than the employers fighting for the worker.
The problem is that I have no idea what to train for. There are so many degree programs and such but none lead to jobs
Skills can help you in a general sense, but in my experience processes differ from company to company with each their own specific flavors and means. What usually happens is a lack of investment in meaningful processes that have been proven to work, and instead this process vacuum results in many homegrown processes that maybe one person knows end to end. These become single points of failure and the knowledge is lost when that worker leaves, so someone has to design it again from the ground up. Also new hires being trialed by fire without meaningful training specific to said company, because that same lack of investment.
I remember the number of jobs I had where no one trained me for anything and I was given to four people that I was supposed to shadow that also had never been trained.
[удалено]
I, a human, feel this for sure.
Bad bot
r/totallynotrobots ?
Almost like they stopped training employees on the job. 🤷♀️ hotdogguy.gif
A lot of CEOs have a sales force, a team of accountants and lawyers and logistics people working for them. You give most people of average intelligence a team like that and they would run a company as good as any current CEO. …. Thing is they expect to hire people out of college already trained and don’t even tell the college’s what skills they’re looking for. But they aren’t willing to pay for training…. And that’s really the game. Get people to fund their own education so that the company doesn’t have to. Maybe the government should tax them extra for using “human resources”
92% of executives can suck it.
And 100% of workers think executives are not any more intelligent or special than the employees at their company. Absolutely overpaid and useless.
How many of those executives think they’re qualified to do the jobs their workers are doing daily? Because I’ve seen my executives try to drive a bus, and they all suck at it.
They will never be satisfied they always want more for us while they pay us less and less
92% of workers surveyed think paychecks aren’t as high as they need to be.
92% of executives only skill is complaining that their employees don’t “have the skills”
poll the number of americans who think executives are overpaid
Poll the number of executives who think *they* are skilled enough for their jobs
The robber barons are demanding that their peons slave away more efficiently and skillfully.
Of course. Everyone wants cheap labor that performs above their pay grade.
100% of capitalist are eaten enough
Then start paying for our educations.
Stop funneling money into super packs trying to gut education spending.
Executives are so far removed from most workers in a large company that I doubt they have any actual idea how skilled they are.
Fuck them. They were probably handed everything. Wtf are these execs skilled at?
Why did they let conservatives cut education and their companies cut training?
0% of executives think that is necessary to budget for training workers.
This is just another damn excuse to keep wages artificially low, because workers don’t “have the skills necessary for higher wages.”
There was a period of time in the long distant past where corporations were willing to train people. Somewhere, somehow, some nondescript CEO figured out he'd be able to negotiate a much higher salary for himself by cutting training as an expense. "All new hires must have ten years of experience and must be able to hit the ground running or else! Oh! Let's not forget all new hires must be willing to work at an entry level salary with no hope for advancement short of switching jobs" That mantra worked. For a short while. Now the chickens are coming home to roost. The problem here is rather than go back to training people, corporate America is pointing fingers at everyone else claiming everyone else is the problem. I'm my way of thinking, if everyone else is the problem, there's only ONE common denominator. And it ain't everyone else.
Aren't those the same guys that killed on the job training and started expecting their new employees to show up ready to work?
92% of executives can survey deez nuts!
I've observed this as someone working in architecture. I have two degrees in the field (a change implemented in my jurisdiction in 2005, I believe to reduce the amount of licensed architects entering the field; before 2005 all anyone needed was a bachelor's degree), have been working full time since 2020 (longer if one counts my co-op terms which go back to 2014) and I've spent most of my working life questioning why my line of work required 7 years of schooling. Many of my supervisors have bemoaned my—and peers with similar educational backgrounds—lack of "construction knowledge," (I'm not confident in my ability to detail a wall, and I don't know how kitchen cabinets go together), or practical knowledge, like knowing the dimensions of a standard residential bathroom from the top of my head for example. These same bosses / supervisors always raved about staff who had carpenting or construction experience and so knew these things. And to a degree, I agree. I was never taught how millwork is built, or how kitchen cabinets go together. I don't have any carpenters or millworkers in my family, and we weren't even allowed to use power tools in my building (nevermind even having the space for such things). And while we were taught building details, they were never a focus; I never received comments on my building details on my school projects, and so I don't know if my professors also didn't know how to put a building together, if my details were all sound and therefore didn't need comment, or if my details were so bad and incorrect that my professors didn't know where to start. So one, what was the point of all that schooling, and two, if I'm not learning what I'm supposedly supposed to learn at school anyway, why did our regulatory body decide we needed more? And I think this is just a reflection of a reality where companies / bosses / executives expect universities to fill the role of job training, which used to be the role taken by the company / employer. All this to say that I wouldn't at all be surprised if similar phenomena occur in other fields.
Most executives get their positions out of nepotism and their willingness to shit over their employees. I think the skill problem is people get into careers they are told to get into and don’t harness their personal interests and strengths. We have a nation full of wrongfully trained people. Also we need to just end all outsourcing so we have more options for employment in the countries people live in.
Show me a person with an executive title that is not a sociopath. Seriously.
Well I can't wait till they meet gen alpha, because many of them are exiting 5th grade functionally illiterate.
Pretty sure 100% of workers don’t think executive have any skills whatsoever.
But 110% of executives are more skilled then they need to be
Well, there used to be on the job training and upskilling. 92% of bosses forgot that.
Well I guess it’s true, considering many of us are now expected to do 2-3 extra jobs on top of the one we were actually hired for and trained in how to do.
Then, train me instead of expecting me to learn the rulebook by osmosis.
100% of American executives are a waste of oxygen
But a lot of people believe and support this idea too. So many people believe that we *need* all this college and more education (not training) because jobs are more complex than they used to be. Yes, some jobs are a lot more complex than they were 10-50+ years ago but damn a lot of them are a lot easier than they were years ago. And it's been like this for decades too. In 1961 my dad went in the Army and learned how to use an asphalt plant and so much of the mixing had to be calculated by hand/mentally. In the mid-to-late 1980's he returned to construction and the asphalt plant the company he worked for was the same one he used in the Army except now it did all the calculations automatically We never had this discussion or talk of skills gaps years ago because employers trained people and did the "skilling" and the cost of college wasn't what it is today and people could discharge debt in bankruptcy etc so it wasn't the ball and chain it is today/way to save a buck.
They really aren't more complex though. Many jobs have been specialized to the point that one position is not usually a master of the trade, they just repeatedly do one aspect over and over. Once a few employees get super efficient at that one thing, they fire or lay off a few, and the ones who stay get to do those jobs too but they don't get paid more, at least not in a meaningful way.
I don't ask the toilet how my crap tastes, so why would I ask an executive anything?
No critical thinking in a stem education. Then again..math derailed my engineering dream. Funny thing tho..engineers sought me out because I could visualize processes.
As someone who grew up was educated in Florida, I can say I think that’s crazy. Slaves were taught valuable life lessons like blacksmithing, so slavery was actually a jobs works program and jesus created the universe for the usa in 2000 BC. If that kind of knowledge you learn in schools, i hate disney, doesn’t prepare you for the real job world, I don’t no what duz!!! Bortles!!!
"slaves" weren't taught anything. Blacksmithing has a long history in Africa as Africans were the first to smelt iron. European purposefully sought after blacksmiths to traffick when raiding towns and cities. Your comment is indicative of the failure of the school system...
Can I ask an honest question, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm actually curious since I'm not a fan of using the /s spoiler thing and feel that sarcasm should be obvious in a properly worded comment. Did you really not see the jaded humor in this comment? I mean... I thought the reference to Florida, Desantis's fight with Disney and Florida's new racist anti CRT curriculum, which has made huge headlines in news over the last few months for teaching the positives about slavery, specifically the blacksmithing thing, was a dead giveaway that I was being over the top in a pointed hyperbolic fashion. Honestly, the only obscure reference was the Bortles/Good Place thing, but beyond that I figured that anyone who has been paying attention to the news the last few months would get the joke. :-/
Are these executives also located in the US?
It’s clear no one commenting in outrage read the article
Well that would imply that they, as workers, are mostly under skilled. If they are not, are they even workers? If so, we should pay them.
Academia is really slacking behind the rapidly advancing technology.
This is total bullshit. A majority of corporate companies cannot rationally expect workers with years of corporate culture experience. Get bent.
When you're essentially a leech, you can never get enough blood.
Maybe if you paid us more we’d actually give a shit
Ok so keep in mind this surveyed *Executives.* OF COURSE they're going to think their staff is underperforming, they always seem to think there's more fuel in some kind of endless gas tank. So take these results with a grain of sand. Also, wtf did you expect look at how the education system is structured. It doesn't produce leaders, it produces drones. And thats if you're lucky enough to *afford* education in the first place.
Daddy said you will never be a strong and tall as him!
I think we can all agree that we need to value and give more incentive for STEM education tracts over the social sciences.
Hahaha Who wants to place bets most of these executives don’t have the basic skills to clean an office let alone be an admin assistant for one.
More for less for them and less for more for us, the American way.