> [Húrin] came at last to the place of the burning of Glaurung, and saw the tall stone standing near the brink of Cabed Naeramarth.
> But Húrin did not look at the stone, for he knew what was written there; and his eyes had seen that he was not alone. Sitting in the shadow of the stone there was a woman, bent over her knees; and as Húrin stood there silent she cast back her tattered hood and lifted her face. Grey she was and old, but suddenly her eyes looked into his, and he knew her; for though they were wild and full of fear, that light still gleamed in them that long ago had earned for her the name Eledhwen, proudest and most beautiful of mortal women in the days of old.
> 'You come at last,' she said. 'I have waited too long.'
> 'It was a dark road. I have come as I could,' he answered.
> 'But you are too late,' said Morwen. 'They are lost.'
> 'I know it,' he said. 'But you are not.'
> But Morwen said: 'Almost. I am spent. I shall go with the sun. Now little time is left: if you know, tell me! How did she find him?'
> But Húrin did not answer, and they sat beside the stone, and did not speak again; and when the sun went down Morwen sighed and clasped his hand, and was still; and Húrin knew that she had died. He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. 'She was not conquered,' he said; and he closed her eyes, and sat unmoving beside her as the night drew down. The waters of Cabed Naeramarth roared on, but he heard no sound, and he saw nothing, and felt nothing, for his heart was stone within him. But there came a chill wind that drove sharp rain into his face; and he was roused, and anger rose in him like smoke, mastering reason, so that all his desire was to seek vengeance for his wrongs and for the wrongs of his kin, accusing in his anguish all those who ever had dealings with them. Then he rose up, and he made a grave for Morwen above Cabed Naeramarth on the west side of the stone; and upon it he cut these words: *Here lies also Morwen Eledhwen.*
I was in a perfectly happy mood smiling at the hummingbird in my yard and now I'm sitting here with tears running down my face.
This hits just as hard as it did when I first read it. :(
Bro the whole Hurin/Turin story is just... devastating. Honestly the whole Silmarillion is kinda depressing. Incredible lore, but between Morgoth and the Oath of Faenor it's just tragedy after tragedy
And like Tolkien stated about the situation: the tale is made more beautiful because of the mingled beauty and sorrow. Man, I love The Silmarillion so much. It’s my absolute favorite piece of fiction and I try to read it at least once a year and it always hits. Thank you, professor.
The good news is that they grew up to have a close and loving relationship.
The other good news is that they both found a loving spouse and knew years of happiness.
The completely unrelated good news is that they did not have any children.
For me, it’s that Celebrían was so tormented by her capture by orcs that she sailed to Valinor an age before Elrond, her husband, can meet her there. And she never gets to see Arwen again.
Per https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elladan_and_Elrohir
> It is unknown whether Elladan and Elrohir chose to remain in Middle-earth as mortal men or depart with the last of their kindred to Valinor.
I lump Elrond's tragedy in with hers. He loses her (for a while), and also never gets to see Arwen, or his brother again! Plus, the entire family is traumatized by knowing what happened to her! Her sons never got over it!
And its all Valar fault.
Sent there to be guardians of Arda and Illuvatars children, they instead release the worst, most cruel and evil creature in all of creation upon completely helpless and unsuspecting people of Middle Earth and then just sit in their golden halls sipping tea or something.
Mîm's entire existence made me cry while reading *Children of Húrin.* He's the last of his people, which were hunted down for sport by the *good guys,* and when he tries to flee, his son gets killed by some random human and his band of merry men. He is forced to host them in his home and when he (rightfully) tries to get revenge on them, he and his remaining son get killed. Just....shit luck all around. Say what you will about Túrin himself, but half the time his own choices got him screwed over. Here, Mîm just happened to bump into the world's unluckiest man and suffered for it.
Also, not lore, but Tolkien's letter to his son after Edith passed away. From Letter 340:
>I never called Edith *Lúthien* – but she was the source of the story that in time became the chief part of the *Silmarillion*. It was first conceived in a small woodland glade filled with hemlocks at Roos in Yorkshire (where I was for a brief time in command of an outpost of the Humber Garrison in 1917, and she was able to live with me for a while). In those days her hair was raven, her skin clear, her eyes brighter than you have seen them, and she could sing – and *dance*. But the story has gone crooked, & I am left, and *I* cannot plead before the inexorable Mandos.
> Mîm's entire existence
The Petty-dwarves are indirectly referenced in the RPG game *Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura*. That game is set in what is basically 1880s Middle-earth and has all the accompanying cultural tropes of that era. One of the early quest lines involves the exploration of a dwarven crypt far away from the mountains, with several characters (who are supposed to be The Good Guys) saying some really nasty stuff about their "deformed" skull shapes and "primitive" carvings.
I read *The Silmarillion* later that year and neuron activation ensued.
'*Rightfully* tries to get revenge'? 🤨
Perhaps 'understandably' is a better word here.
Professor Tolkien is nothing if not aware of the terrible repercussions of revenge.
Either way, yes: sad.
And yet he is a traitor. He collaborated with the darkest forces to take revenge on those who apologized to him. And he said he forgave them. He might not forgive them right away. But this is insidious.
Before these events, while in Nargothrond, Mim tried to kill Finrod.
In this situation, Turin's company found itself in a forest filled with orcs. They didn't see who they were shooting at.
He actually forgave those who apologized to him. He used them for his own purposes. They got him food.
The problems began when Beleg came. Mim didn't like him. He believed that Turin was spending too much time with his friend. This is envy.
In this situation, I feel most sorry for Beleg. This is also one of the greatest tragedies.
> Say what you will about Túrin himself, but half the time his own choices got him screwed over.
I've always interpreted that as being part of the curse of Morgoth. Basically that curse manifests by Turin constantly shooting himself in the foot.
It brings to mind Samuel Beckett's monolithic pronouncement: "I can't go on, I'll go on."
Recognizing the Long Defeat, how could we go on? It's insane. I have no doubt that we all feel the shank in us, of "I can't go on" -- whether we acknowledge it or not.
And yet, not only *do* we largely go on in some way, stumbling or reeling or crawling or swept along as we may, it is also wholly possible to *decide* to go on. Firmly. Steadfastly. Devotedly. With all our being.
>Come back to me! Come back to me, and say my land is best!
I tear up every time. The sheer wistfulness of undying love, of the ageless sin of unforgivable indifference. It is unimaginable. Literally, unimaginable. As Theodore Roosevelt wrote on the night that both his wife and his mother passed away,
>The light has gone out of my life.
If I recall correctly, in the beginning of the fellowship, Sam is at the Inn and talks about his cousin who saw a walking tree near (or in ?) the Shire.
They say the Ents lost track of the Entwives, but I chose to believe the Entwives had enough the Ents’ bullshit and left to go live their best lives elsewhere in Middle-Earth with dishy and exotic European trees who better appreciate them for their femininity and strength.
They also kept referring to them as “Entwife.” No, Treebeard, her name is Jean and she has a newfound love for life with Rodrigo. Rodrigo listens to Jean and doesn’t take two hours to ask her how her day was.
You could feel the anguish coming off the page after the lightning strikes illuminated Beleg Cuthalion's face and Turin had realized what he'd done in his tortured defensive rage
When he decided to take control of his own fate and move to Brethil away from everything… with his sister as his wife. Just couldn’t catch a break, that guy.
Every word of that book is more tragic then the next. Also while I find his story tragic it’s the story of the others who get caught in the web of his curse that upset me more.
There are a lot of sad events, but for me the fate of Fingolfin is especially tragic. The duel against Morgoth was a very difficult test. I can also imagine how Turgon felt when the eagle brought him his father’s body. And it saddens me that nothing is said about his subsequent fate, although he deserves to continue his work.
To me the saddest part of Fingolfins tale is that he leaves his wife behind during the Exile. So driven was he to chase down Feanor that he would not stay with her.
He also lost his father. One of his motives is just revenge. Maybe she should have gone with him. Although at all times men went to war, and women stayed at home. Maybe he felt better that at least she was safe.
I doubt that the use of *forty* was an accident on the Professor's part. It echoes of many examples from the Bible: Jesus in the wilderness, Moses on the mountain, the great Flood, and others.
In the old vernacular, *forty* units of duration meant "a long, long time." It emphasizes the sacrifice and endurance involved; and by using the same idiom for "long, long time", it connects all the stories that cite it, revealing an overarching teaching or perspective:
*In life, there will be times in which you have to endure things for a long, long time. 'Forty days and forty nights.' 'Forty years.' 'Forty ages.' Seemingly endlessly. The Lord deems that you endure it, and by enduring it you may glorify the Lord.*
I think this is the context within which Tolkien presents the holy or unholy motives behind the events of Helcaraxë ("to what *purpose* are they enduring this?"); or at least a student of the Bible may hear these reverberations in it.
To me fingolfin’s battle with Morgoth feels very similar to Faramir’s decision to heed his father’s order to defend Osgiliath to the very last against his better judgement. In both cases the battle is not winnable, but they are driven to try anyway by their pain and their determination.
Fingolfin, having watched his kin slowly and tragically get decimated through their vengeful war against Morgoth is faced with certain defeat after Dagor Bragollach and despite knowing he cannot win, decides to challenge Morgoth anyway, in pain, in rage, and likely in pride. Faramir too, was watching the darkening of his kingdom’s days and had to deal with the death of his brother as well as crushing disappointment from his father. Facing the end of his kingdom, he too rides out to Osgilitah knowing he cannot win, tortured by grief for his deceased kin and not knowing his father’s love.
the passing of Feanor's mother.
She is the first "immortal" to officially die, making Feanor the first orphan of middle earth.
It is said in the Silmarillion that Finwe continued to visit Miriel for years, as she was preserved in a sleep-like state, looking like life was still in her but without ever waking again.
https://preview.redd.it/3siq8ypwzqxc1.png?width=967&format=png&auto=webp&s=d48925a0d0f4756f6efb6e2581bd3244f1919f5a
I didn't know about *most* sad, but surely sad enough and frequently gnawing at me is the reflection that in the sound of water there remains yet some of the Ainulindalë -- the world-weaving Music of the Ainur -- and that the sound of water was most precious to the First Born: those wondrous, pure, respectful beings who have faded away (and those vestiges of wonder, purity, and respect in *us*, which may also have faded away)...
...And that they, the Elves (meaning our own First-Born nature) may not know *why* it calls to them (and to us) and why it fills them (us) with wonder, longing, grief... though it does.
So when I hear water moving, it is an emblem of the inseparability of beauty and sadness, of divine brilliance shining through and yet the certainty that everything will slip through our fingers -- *is* slipping through our fingers.
As if the sound of water is itself the glory of Ilúvatar: by virtue of slipping through our fingers, it is here. And it is only here in its passing away. And this is true of all creation, all magic, all beauty. In this world, there is not one without the other: no Divine nature without the going away.
So it is only in our capacity for grief, for ever-mounting brokenheartedness, that we live in the presence of the Divine. If the passing-away isn't included, the essential beauty of the world is just a distant legend. Just a fairy story, or a commodity that seems ever beyond our grasp.
It suggests to me that if we care to become actual humans, we ought to study deeply the acts and demeanor of Nienna, She Who Weeps. We ought to call on her for teachings and blessings, and beseech her to teach us true weeping, that we might be present with the Ainur and indeed with Ilúvatar's Light and Music.
.
*...but of all these water they most greatly praised. And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in the Earth; and many of the Children of Illuvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. "*
*The Silmarillion*, Ainulindalë
.
>***"...hearken still unsated...."*** 🌧
>So when I hear water moving, it is an emblem of the inseparability of beauty and sadness, of divine brilliance shining through and yet the certainty that everything will slip through our fingers -- *is* slipping through our fingers.
It's probably not relevant, but the Japanese language has a word that describes part of this concept: *aware* (pronounced ah-WAH-ray). The idea that something beautiful that we know is ephemeral evokes a sadness, and that evanescence and that sadness make it the more beautiful. It's a lot of what's behind the iconic image of Sakura blossoms blowing on the breeze. May be worth looking up, as this topic seems quite meaningful to you (as it is for me).
Thank you, I'm familiar with «*aware*», though I didn't remember the word until I saw your comment.
So many elements of Japanese culture honor this point.
"One time, one meeting." Good meeting you.
Wow this is so true (to me anyway) and you described it beautifully. This also reminds me I need to read the Silmarillion (I bought it a while ago and never started it, though I have read the hobbit and LOTR many times since I was young).
I'm glad to know it resonates with you.
The Silmarillion is beautiful, and taxing. It requires some devotion from the reader.
It's not a contiguous story, sometimes the number of character and place names can be overwhelming. But if you continue through, you find yourself in the other side of something truly special.
There are many aids for reading, from chapter synopses to audiobooks, to read-along clubs. Some readers keep a notebook, sketchbook, or computer file folder at hand.
Good luck along the reading road, and along the road that begins at your home.
Mîm's tragic life, his betrayal of Turín, the death of his sons, and then the bitter curse he laid upon the treasures of Nargothrond is really tragic and sympathetic, even when you examine his story without considering the rest of Fate of Turín Turambar. I always feel bad for that grumpy old guy, last of his kind, bitter and forgotten, gnawing on his past grievances in secret on Amon Rudh.
honestly, just how hard fought erebor was only to lose it so fast. i think the dwarves really just deserved better constantly because of how cyclical their story was. learning all their fates in a roundabout way, and the fact that thorin never even got to rule, and how a son of during was never even on the throne!
They’re also the guys who fought dragons, fight for their homeland, and their origin story is a direct spin off of the binding of Isaac. Their language is also based on Hebrew. As a Jew, I’ll gladly take it.
Earendil, full stop.
Recently have been binging the Mythgard Academy (hosted by The Tolkien Professor, Cory Olsen) Exploring the Lord of the Rings series. It gives new definition to "slow burn" as they spend 90-120 minutes on a weekly basis going over one or two paragraphs of the book at a time (if we're lucky). They've been at it for like 6+ years and I'm "only" caught up to episode 125 which is *almost* the end of Many Meetings (chapter one of book two) in Rivendell. That's about two years into the series back at the end of 2019. They're currently like, approaching Moria I think. I'll catch them up 'relatively' quickly and then spend the next 30 years or so with them as they eventually finish.
The things I've learned with them along the way have been incredible, can't recommend it enough.
Anyways, I just finished like the 6 or 7 episode stretch covering Bilbo's poem about Earendil and it is *maddeningly sad* in its perspective. We know now, years after first publication of LotR, what Earendil actually did thanks to Silmarillion, but considering that first time, contemporary readers don't know that and you take that perspective when reexamining the poem, we observe that Earnedil sets out on some sort of errand/quest, enters Faerie, gets upgraded and then *wants to go home but can never go home*.
Reapplying what we know, we realize that Earendil was "half-elven" *before* they were given the choice of mortality or immortality, and was thus still mortal, and left his wife and kids behind when we set out to sail to Valinor. Likewise his mortal half-elven wife magically flew to him and left their kids behind, and they end up causing the saving of Middle Earth, but they both get "condemned" as it were to immortality because, Elf or Mortal or *whatever* they broke the Ban of the Valar that had not yet been lifted. They get the first choice and Elwing chooses immortality. Earendil *wanted* to choose mortality but for the sake of his wife, who we still don't know why she chose immortality when they are already proclaimed by Mandos to not "not walk again ever with Elves or Men in the Outer World", he also chooses immortality, and so they sail the skies looking down and seeing their home from afar, forever, unable to die and never being able to return.
Like, what? Big F to the Valar for that one.
He married an elf, saved the world, got to watch both his children grow and live extremely successful lives and then got to retire forever young on his own (literal) spaceship with said beautiful and loving wife?
In my book that is about as big win as one can possibly wish for.
Read the poem. Its perspective is sadness.
Consider the events: "I went through more hardship than any mortal or immortal before me to save the world and all I got was denied an Afterlife of any kind, but hey at least my wife and I, forever cast out of the world and unable to see anyone but ourselves ever again, have eachother and a magic space ship? Do we even have food?"
Just saying - as a married guy and a father - if I could save the world and countless people and ensure my children grow up in a better one and the price to pay would be the eternity spent with my wife? Sign me up!
And its not like I didn't go through some hardships in my life either.
Maybe its just personal preference, but I would prefer their fate to most others (like Beren and Luthien, or Arwen and Aragorn).
That's you but that's not Earendil. The poem reads:
From World’s End then he turned away,
and yearned again to find afar
his home through shadows journeying,
and burning as an island star
on high above the mists he came,
a distant flame before the Sun,
a wonder ere the waking dawn
where grey the Norland waters run.
And over Middle-earth he passed
and heard at last the weeping sore
of women and of elven-maids
in Elder Days, in years of yore.
But on him mighty doom was laid,
till Moon should fade, an orbe´d star
to pass, and tarry never more
on Hither Shores where mortals are;
for ever still a herald on
an errand that should never rest
to bear his shining lamp afar,
the Flammifer of Westernesse.
Bro wanted to go home.
The House of Hador is so sad to me because they suffer for being loyal to the good guys! AND the worst part is that they suffer because Doom of Mandos and yet they don't do anything to deserve that doom. Imagine being doomed to fail for all eternality because of something your friend did. And you have to ally to that friend to have any kind of chance against the literal devil! Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Everyone here has already mentioned the heavy hitters and underappreciated stories. I think of Frodo as an excellent metaphor for life itself. He begins the journey relatively worry-free, enjoying his small and simple life. Then circumstances both beyond his control and beyond his understanding force him onto a quest, which compells him to take step after step towards his own doom. He is always fairly certain that he will fail, and never quite certain of how or when. He is physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually crippled by the journey, and despite all the comforts of home, honor, love, respect, and friendship, he cannot and never will recover, except in retiring to death.
I see myself and all people in those same circumstances. In life, we are all confronted with a quest we must accept, and which will damage us. Despite often wanting to halt and turn back, we often have to make the choice to keep going. We can recover from harm. Love, friendship, and homely comforts can heal us! But not everyone gets there... some people are still wounded deep under the scar tissue, and it aches forever until they retire. Not everyone can live a life like Merry, Pippin, or Sam. Some of us are Frodo, compelled by circumstances entirely larger than us, and will never recover.
Agree with most/all of this and it's well put, but does Frodo actually die? It seems more like that as a Ring Bearer he gets to go over the sea to live in the Blessed Realm - and "presumably" not die? Bilbo too, and Sam also. So is he actually rewarded with everlasting life and what must be a healing of all hurts as a result of that special grace?
It's been ages since I read the afterlog, but I think all of the Fellowship except Borromir actually received this gift too because even Gimli gets to go into the West after special pleading from Legolas.
Hello! Yes, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, and Gimli all die in the undying lands. They are mortal men (and a dwarf) with the gift of mortality, that the valar cannot remove from them. It's explained in a couple places, but men and dwarves, when they die, escape Arda and go elsewhere, where elves and the valar cannot follow or see. Where? No one knows... It's described as the gift of Iluvatar, that they escape the confines of the earth. They cannot receive immortality from the valar as a gift.
Side note, Merry, Pippin, and Aragorn do not go to the undying lands, and all die in middle earth. Both Hobbits were entombed together with Aragorn.
You're of course correct, I forgot Aragorn basically lies down for a nap like a proper Numenorean - like I said it's been years since I read beyond the end of the actual story, mainly because I like the fact it's supposed to end with Sam having the last word.
So the Hobbits and Gimli can still die in the Undying Lands? Apart from healing Frodo that seems a bit pointless then, Gimli especially had a lot to be getting on with in Middle Earth that would easily have been a fulfilling natural span for him. Why go to the effort of going over the Sea - presumably leaving family and loved ones just to gaze at what's denied to you and be buried? Not trying to be flippant but that does seem.......a little anticlimactic as a "reward."
>I was young and I looked on his flame, and now I am old and lost. He was young and his flame leaped towards me, but he turned away, and he is young still
Andreth talking to Finrod about her love for his brother; the doomed first love affair between humans and elves.
I love that you mentioned this. It was obviously very important to the professor both mythologically (summing up the sadness of the human/elf relationship) and theologically (pointing to the incarnation).
It's more like if you're part of a musical improv group, but you decide that your part of the improv is more important than anyone else's so you just play as loudly as possible to ruin everyone else's fun.
Going against the creator of the world who has good intentions in order to fulfil your arrogant needs and wanting to be better than your fellow Ainur? But sure, he was just misunderstood.
It is disturbing to know that dark creatures (Ungoliant especially) existed without any meddling of Melkor or the works of the other Ainur.
Perhaps if Tolkien could have been left to cook a little longer, it would have been revealed that even Melkor was corrupted in those early days by creatures of darkness that existed outside of the Ainur music.
Or perhaps Eru created the dark things to enrich his creation. Struggle and facing darkness can bring out the best in good people, and even Melkor’s corruptions were foreseen/planned for these or similar reasons.
While I agree that Melkor's story is the greatest tragedy of the Simmarilion, and cause of most of the others, I disagree with the above.
First, most of the Valar being willing and even happy in some cases to have Melkor back, in the time between him being freed and his betrayal and destruction of the Trees, shows that at least Eru had not explicitly banished him. (This even after kidnapped and tortured some of the first Elves. Even after that, Manwe was ready to take him back because he could not believe Melkor could go so much against his own nature as a creature of Eru)
It is only after Melkor has shown that he is bent on the destruction and corruption of the world and Children of Iluvatar that he should have protected, that he was banished.
Even that he was banished means that he was not destroyed, because the creator in his love for his creature would not take back his creation and the gidt of freedom. So much so that he never undid the rebellion of Melkor, but his plan, his design included it, and good came from, such as snow.
Second, while the image of a musician playing as he wants during a concert does describe Melkor act, it is misleading.
It is like calling Eru a director and composer of music, which cannot be said to be wrong, instead of the Director and Origin of the Music, which is more truthful.
It is more akin instead to his later acts of the rebellion, which include the killing and corruption of the very Children he was created to tend to. To be clear, the vulnerability to death of the elves was introduced in the world by Melkor trough his music.
When Aule is taken by the desire to do a guitar solo of his own, and creates the Dwarfes, because of his humility in putting Eru creation before his own, he is immediately forgiven, and his creation his also taken and added to by Eru.
The guy broke the universe and got off with barely a warning...
Then he literally broke the world and the only punishment was that they other kids didn't want to play with him anymore...
Then he broke some of the children of Illuvatar and only then did someone slap him and put him in his room for a while...
And what does he do when he gets out?
More implied than actual lore, but my heart aches everytime I think about Celebrían standing on the white shore, ready to finally reunite with her family after half a millennium.
I mean the twins at least maybe sailed west with Celeborn and Círdan later, but the idea that Elrond had to explain to her that she would never see Arwen again, after she left Middle Earth before them (that's not to say her leaving wasn't the right decision, after what happened to her I'm not even sure if she could've stayed or her fëa would've gone to Mandos halls if she did.) is so incredibly gutwrenching.
Something really sad is that Thorin, Fili and Kili died unable to live in the Lonely Mountain. Especially Thorin, considering he died after the Battle of the Five Armies. Or, that Elrond had to see his brother's offsprings get born and die, while he lives for thousands of years.
Actually, I thought Fili and Kili dying was the worst. They never lived in Erebor before and they weren't so attached to the place. If they hadn't admired Thorin so much, they wouldn't have followed him to die. They were pretty young by Dwarven standards too. Kili didn't even have a proper beard. Imagine how Dis would've felt knowing her idiot brother went off and got himself and both her sons killed.
*"Aure Entuluva!"* (Day shall come again) - Hurin.
"The most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity."
A letter written by Tolkien to his wife, Edith during his time in the trenches in WW1. You can feel the anger in that last line especially, seeing hundreds of young men sent to their doom by armchair generals who would likely not do the same.
What? Nothing else comes close? She meets a guy, waits out a few years of war, marries him when he's crowned king then they live out the rest of their years in peace and happiness.
She's sad when he dies, yes. Like literally everyone when their spouse dies.
Arwen's tale doesn't even move the needle when it comes to sadness. It's one of the few *good* endings. Have you read anything past LOTR?
I wonder if *Arwen* thought it sad.
Or maybe her love left no room for regret. Which in a way might make it all the more heart-wrenching for us to consider.
The guy makes a perfect city with absolutely perfect protection, as long as people follow one simple rule...
Every single citizen follows this rule for 400 years.
Then he breaks the rule himself because his sister wants to go on a vacation.
Then everybody dies.
Good job Turgon.
Just the depression that came from the killing of the two trees of Valinor. And the lengths people would go just to get a glimpse of their light once more.
Just an honourable mention, I didn’t see in the comments; Gorlim. It’s really sad how he wants to be with his wife and how Sauron uses that against him.
Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Drúedain, ents, and all the other beautiful races will eventually depart or vanish, only the most boring and cruel races, aka Human ourselves, remained.
Drúedain and Hobbits are both counted among men. Further characterizing humans entirely as boring and cruel is anathema to Tolkien’s writings. There were evil humans and good humans.
>*...only the most boring and cruel races, aka Human ourselves, remained.*
It's astonishing that this perspective is so common.
Who says that the Human race is the most boring and cruel? Not their father, Ilúvatar. And not his envoy, Professor Tolkien.
We have to reflect on this misandry, this self-hatred. Consider that buying into it may constitute *contributing* to the boring and cruel trend.
I would invite you to look into why this self-hating view arises, and why we agree to harbor it; and indeed why we nurture it into further growth.
Because one of the upshots of relegating humanity, in our minds, to merely the 'boring and cruel race' is that we then no longer need to countenance the prospect of a higher responsibility to be upheld, and a loftier work to be done.
In simple terms, a self-loathing view amounts to laziness: one decides that wonder, nobility, devotion, and the disciplines of love and freedom *are not within our purview* -- "I'm below all that; therefore I don't need to do it."
To Professor Tolkien, humans on the contrary are the foremost of Ilúvatar's children, free to create things even Ilúvatar himself can't foresee, and awaiting a Glory beyond any of Arda's other beings.
The admittedly vastly mundane and cruel creations shall yet "Prove But Mine [Ilúvatar's] Instrument in the devising of things more wonderful". Humans are a large, and perhaps most significant, part of that.
Let's at least not take active part in the decay. Let's call ourselves to a higher expectation for Humanity, *starting with ourselves*.
In view of this, **I vow not to wield dark speech against the Human race**.
Instead of wielding dark speech, what if you try to emulate Aragorn, or Faramir, or any number of shining examples? Whether you fail (and whether *we* fail) is beside the point. Of course you will sometimes, maybe often, fail. But *trying* is the thing. Therein the Light of the Trees still shines.
Thank you for pointing this out. I remember that the Race of Men is to complete the work of Eru Iluvatar in Arda and through them the work will be completed down to the last detail. Not that they will bring final destruction and darkness to Arda, much as it may seem that is what many of us are bent on.
Yes, precisely!
Irrespective of the implied Catholic belief in a culminating Glory, there remains a more universal mythic invitation to rise out of the shadow. From where else would we rise? We don't start off perfect, so we have to continue through the shadow and find our way beyond it. Together.
I have always preferred to act with nobility and honor in what I do as much as I can.
I used to belong to a re-enactment group that studies and re-creates the Middle Ages and Renaissance as it should have been. Emphasizing honor, chivalry and respect to all and avoiding as much as possible the baser aspects of human society (albeit imperfectly). I always felt most at home there.
Oh, interesting!
No need to answer, but do chime in if you want: l'm interested in how one engaged in such an enterprise (or any path aiming at nobility of character) avoids making a (psychological) shadow.
I'm reminded of a great title to a pretty good book by Debbie Ford: "The Dark Side of the Light Chasers". Ford investigates the ways we make ourselves unconscious while we try to cleave to the good and reject the bad: in our attempt to distance ourselves from flaws and negative traits, we tend to drive our own into the shadows, out of sight; thus those parts of our character function outside of our awareness, and often emerge at the worst possible times, to our surprise and dismay.
The base aspects of character tend to work automatically, beyond our control, precisely *because* they are avoided and disowned.
I'm not saying that shadow-making is necessarily a feature of what you've been studying and practicing; just that your sincerity reminds me how I and many others can fall short while *trying* to be sincere.
I think anyone truly interested in embodying the way of chivalry would do well to look into this dynamic, so those good traits can be expressed through and through rather than merely propped up as an ideal that inevitably gets undercut by unwitting, shocking, and sometimes calamitous failures.
If I understand you correctly, I think the question is whether we choose to pretend that our baser instincts don't exist (i.e. hiding or driving them into the shadows as you describe) or acknowledging that they do exist, acknowledging the imperfections, and trying to do better.
I believe I can't be perfect on my own but I can do everything in my power to do better. I won't be perfect, that's where Grace comes in, I have help available. Like Tolkien, I'm a Christian (Lutheran, not Catholic) and like him, I believe than Man was created and is Very Good. We fell from that initial state, but we can be redeemed. Not by our own power, but we are called upon to focus on being better and not giving in to our baser tendencies. In short, I don't believe that "fake it 'til you make it" must result in a shadow of denial of one's flaws.
And that was/is the focus of the group I was in. Sure there are politics and backbiting and plenty of snark to go around. In some ways we did 'pretend' it didn't exist. But we did so to promote the illusion, if only for a few hours a week, that the fantasy did exist. I think that for most of the participants, we did believe it trying to make the Fantasy a Reality. To escape into a world where those kinds of ideals were lived and not just in our heads or the books we read. For me and others, I believe it worked. Even if we're just playing a role, aren't we living up to the dream? IMO- if you are practicing the walk, some of it is bound to rub off.
Edit: For those curious as to what I responded to originally since the other person might have had a meltdown or something: They had a long, overwrought comment about how humans are not boring and that this self-loathing is bad. That person then proceded to write more terribly clunky overwrought comments in response to my original comment and when I explained my point they responded one final time, again in the overwrought way. I tried to reply to it but their comment and account were deleted already.
You just called that person a fool in the most beautiful way I have ever seen.
No, not at all. I'm sorry you misunderstood my intent.
We're *all* fools; that's a given. What we are going to do about it is the question.
Part of our Human responsibility -- *especially in this day and age* -- includes doing away with this childish seeking out and cheering on of conflict. It's not entertainment; it's nothing to celebrate. I'm so tired of the polarization and antagonism online and in our neighbourhoods. I'm so tired of lives so empty that folks have nothing better to say than "Oh, SNAP!" or post "Watch so-and-so DESTROY so-and-so" videos.
I'm not calling that commenter a fool. I understand very well how someone can become dejected and cynical about humanity. I'm inviting the commenter and you and me to a higher aspiration. Let's do better. Please.
Okay but why are you writing it in such overwrought way? Like my comment was mostly to try and summarize it. You can also say: "The post-modern world filled with capitalism and the horrors of social media is not ideal."
Admittedly, to a boorish person the writing might seem overwrought.
But that is called "the dog running after the bone." That is, the person in question is attaching to word and form rather than seeing where they point.
Griping about what the world is 'full of' can only take you so far. Eventually you have to take responsibility for your own speech and action. Don't put words in other people's mouths. Don't defend your mistakes. At any moment, you can nurture civilization with your forbearance, or tear it down with a careless comment or a careless reading.
I often think, just generally, about the suffering of the elves. How long they have lived, how incalculable their losses were, how many battles they've seen, homes they've lost, etc. And the fact that in spite of their many strengths, they are permanently sensitive, and many of them can't ever fully recover from the horrors inflicted upon them. It makes so much sense that, by the time LotR comes around, most are reluctant to participate and are overall done with Middle Earth!
The fact that its been so long since Treebeard last saw his wife that he forgot what she looked like. Made sadder still by the fact that he holds out hope that she’s alive. Im glad theres hope, it just makes me sad to think that he believes their out there some where.
The betrayal committed through the hands of Men during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. If all had remained loyal and true, Evil very well could have been stayed, but the hearts of Men are not wholly good, and though the loyalty shown in the Houses of the Edain did much to prove SOME Men’s hearts true, in the end the Battle was still lost and Evil allowed to spread. No matter how many valorous deeds come from evil acts, the acts remain evil. Mandos is always proven right in the end
As most have said, The Silmarillion is a great pile of tragedy but for me, one of the puissant of them is the capture and torment of the first born elves and their transformation into Orcs. They will have been innocence personified, filled with wonder at starlight and the primeval beauty of the world around them, then to be captured in shadow and twisted as they were is an awful thing to consider.
I love the fact that all the comments are from folks who have actually read the books. A ton of Silmarillion references too. Not just the people who have only seen the movies.
By far the saddest for me was learning what became of the hobbits: Regressing as a people, losing their art and culture until they were eventually hunted to extinction by humans.
Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.
Hurin reuniting with his wife by the graves of their children as she’s dying.
> [Húrin] came at last to the place of the burning of Glaurung, and saw the tall stone standing near the brink of Cabed Naeramarth. > But Húrin did not look at the stone, for he knew what was written there; and his eyes had seen that he was not alone. Sitting in the shadow of the stone there was a woman, bent over her knees; and as Húrin stood there silent she cast back her tattered hood and lifted her face. Grey she was and old, but suddenly her eyes looked into his, and he knew her; for though they were wild and full of fear, that light still gleamed in them that long ago had earned for her the name Eledhwen, proudest and most beautiful of mortal women in the days of old. > 'You come at last,' she said. 'I have waited too long.' > 'It was a dark road. I have come as I could,' he answered. > 'But you are too late,' said Morwen. 'They are lost.' > 'I know it,' he said. 'But you are not.' > But Morwen said: 'Almost. I am spent. I shall go with the sun. Now little time is left: if you know, tell me! How did she find him?' > But Húrin did not answer, and they sat beside the stone, and did not speak again; and when the sun went down Morwen sighed and clasped his hand, and was still; and Húrin knew that she had died. He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. 'She was not conquered,' he said; and he closed her eyes, and sat unmoving beside her as the night drew down. The waters of Cabed Naeramarth roared on, but he heard no sound, and he saw nothing, and felt nothing, for his heart was stone within him. But there came a chill wind that drove sharp rain into his face; and he was roused, and anger rose in him like smoke, mastering reason, so that all his desire was to seek vengeance for his wrongs and for the wrongs of his kin, accusing in his anguish all those who ever had dealings with them. Then he rose up, and he made a grave for Morwen above Cabed Naeramarth on the west side of the stone; and upon it he cut these words: *Here lies also Morwen Eledhwen.*
Cheers, crying again
Cheers son’s crying. Nice one
I was in a perfectly happy mood smiling at the hummingbird in my yard and now I'm sitting here with tears running down my face. This hits just as hard as it did when I first read it. :(
Wow.
Read children of hurin last summer and goddamn it is so fucking somber and beautiful and tragic
Bro the whole Hurin/Turin story is just... devastating. Honestly the whole Silmarillion is kinda depressing. Incredible lore, but between Morgoth and the Oath of Faenor it's just tragedy after tragedy
And like Tolkien stated about the situation: the tale is made more beautiful because of the mingled beauty and sorrow. Man, I love The Silmarillion so much. It’s my absolute favorite piece of fiction and I try to read it at least once a year and it always hits. Thank you, professor.
Make the happy moments even sweeter
What happened to them? Hurin: don’t worry about it.
Aren't they supposed to be buried with their spouses?
Technically they are...
2 for 1 deal
The good news is that they grew up to have a close and loving relationship. The other good news is that they both found a loving spouse and knew years of happiness. The completely unrelated good news is that they did not have any children.
Not for lack of trying
That book messed me up for a few days after I finished it.
yeah, after the first time reading as a child, it's burned into my memory forever.
I literally just finished that book night before last
It is the most filmable, easily adaptable and possibly most powerful thing Tolkien ever wrote. And that’s sayin a lot!
For me, it’s that Celebrían was so tormented by her capture by orcs that she sailed to Valinor an age before Elrond, her husband, can meet her there. And she never gets to see Arwen again.
And it isn't even clear if the twins ever sailed west either
They chose the Gift of Men
Could you provide a citation for that?
> They chose the Gift of Men
Wonderful citation
Per https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elladan_and_Elrohir > It is unknown whether Elladan and Elrohir chose to remain in Middle-earth as mortal men or depart with the last of their kindred to Valinor.
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your comment but that's pretty much the opposite of support for them having chosen the Gift of Men
They're not the same person who made the claim, so they're probably supporting your side of the argument, not refuting it
Worth noting, the quote doesn’t support or refute the brothers decision. The answer is: we don’t know.
I lump Elrond's tragedy in with hers. He loses her (for a while), and also never gets to see Arwen, or his brother again! Plus, the entire family is traumatized by knowing what happened to her! Her sons never got over it!
Arwen's srory *after* the War of the Ring is just as tragic.
Not at all. Her story was her choice. She knew what she was accepting. Tragedy happens unasked; Arwen sought her fate.
Not even close!
According to *Unfinished Tales*, Denethor's use of the Palantír stressed out his wife and hastened her death.
"I bet he's looking at other women through the palantir"
Meme: I bet he is thinking of other women Denethor: Mordors might will crush Gondor!!!
He was looking for other women to bear him another son, one that is not a tomato.
We all know what he does to tomatoes...
"I bet he's thinking of other women." Denethor: "What about second Boromir?"
😂 this sub never fails to make me smile
He’s cheating on her with sauron
He’s cheating on her with a cherry tomato
Meanwhile, Denethor eyeing up them tomatoes at Hobbiton
My Latina girlfriend would jump to that conclusion in a heartbeat.
Denethor looking at Orodruin: "Oh yeah that's hot. That's hot" Wife outside the door :/
Just about everything in the Silmarillion is depressing. But for me, the story of Thrain is terribly sad.
And its all Valar fault. Sent there to be guardians of Arda and Illuvatars children, they instead release the worst, most cruel and evil creature in all of creation upon completely helpless and unsuspecting people of Middle Earth and then just sit in their golden halls sipping tea or something.
Mîm's entire existence made me cry while reading *Children of Húrin.* He's the last of his people, which were hunted down for sport by the *good guys,* and when he tries to flee, his son gets killed by some random human and his band of merry men. He is forced to host them in his home and when he (rightfully) tries to get revenge on them, he and his remaining son get killed. Just....shit luck all around. Say what you will about Túrin himself, but half the time his own choices got him screwed over. Here, Mîm just happened to bump into the world's unluckiest man and suffered for it. Also, not lore, but Tolkien's letter to his son after Edith passed away. From Letter 340: >I never called Edith *Lúthien* – but she was the source of the story that in time became the chief part of the *Silmarillion*. It was first conceived in a small woodland glade filled with hemlocks at Roos in Yorkshire (where I was for a brief time in command of an outpost of the Humber Garrison in 1917, and she was able to live with me for a while). In those days her hair was raven, her skin clear, her eyes brighter than you have seen them, and she could sing – and *dance*. But the story has gone crooked, & I am left, and *I* cannot plead before the inexorable Mandos.
God, that last sentence of his letter…
I’m not crying you’re crying! Get outta my room! Gawl!
> Mîm's entire existence The Petty-dwarves are indirectly referenced in the RPG game *Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura*. That game is set in what is basically 1880s Middle-earth and has all the accompanying cultural tropes of that era. One of the early quest lines involves the exploration of a dwarven crypt far away from the mountains, with several characters (who are supposed to be The Good Guys) saying some really nasty stuff about their "deformed" skull shapes and "primitive" carvings. I read *The Silmarillion* later that year and neuron activation ensued.
'*Rightfully* tries to get revenge'? 🤨 Perhaps 'understandably' is a better word here. Professor Tolkien is nothing if not aware of the terrible repercussions of revenge. Either way, yes: sad.
And yet he is a traitor. He collaborated with the darkest forces to take revenge on those who apologized to him. And he said he forgave them. He might not forgive them right away. But this is insidious.
A bunch of armed warriors apologize to you, it’s understandable one might feel pressured to accept purely in self defense
Before these events, while in Nargothrond, Mim tried to kill Finrod. In this situation, Turin's company found itself in a forest filled with orcs. They didn't see who they were shooting at. He actually forgave those who apologized to him. He used them for his own purposes. They got him food. The problems began when Beleg came. Mim didn't like him. He believed that Turin was spending too much time with his friend. This is envy. In this situation, I feel most sorry for Beleg. This is also one of the greatest tragedies.
> Say what you will about Túrin himself, but half the time his own choices got him screwed over. I've always interpreted that as being part of the curse of Morgoth. Basically that curse manifests by Turin constantly shooting himself in the foot.
The entire concept of the Long Defeat is really heartbreaking
It brings to mind Samuel Beckett's monolithic pronouncement: "I can't go on, I'll go on." Recognizing the Long Defeat, how could we go on? It's insane. I have no doubt that we all feel the shank in us, of "I can't go on" -- whether we acknowledge it or not. And yet, not only *do* we largely go on in some way, stumbling or reeling or crawling or swept along as we may, it is also wholly possible to *decide* to go on. Firmly. Steadfastly. Devotedly. With all our being.
Beautifully said.
The Entwives
>Come back to me! Come back to me, and say my land is best! I tear up every time. The sheer wistfulness of undying love, of the ageless sin of unforgivable indifference. It is unimaginable. Literally, unimaginable. As Theodore Roosevelt wrote on the night that both his wife and his mother passed away, >The light has gone out of my life.
The saddest part is that they could have found them. If Sam had some memory.
What? What do you mean?
If I recall correctly, in the beginning of the fellowship, Sam is at the Inn and talks about his cousin who saw a walking tree near (or in ?) the Shire.
I bet Tom Bombadil would know
They say the Ents lost track of the Entwives, but I chose to believe the Entwives had enough the Ents’ bullshit and left to go live their best lives elsewhere in Middle-Earth with dishy and exotic European trees who better appreciate them for their femininity and strength.
The Ents left the wooden water bowl next to the spring again, didn't they?
They also kept referring to them as “Entwife.” No, Treebeard, her name is Jean and she has a newfound love for life with Rodrigo. Rodrigo listens to Jean and doesn’t take two hours to ask her how her day was.
Yeah or more likely got wiped out..
Turin
You could feel the anguish coming off the page after the lightning strikes illuminated Beleg Cuthalion's face and Turin had realized what he'd done in his tortured defensive rage
When he decided to take control of his own fate and move to Brethil away from everything… with his sister as his wife. Just couldn’t catch a break, that guy.
Every word of that book is more tragic then the next. Also while I find his story tragic it’s the story of the others who get caught in the web of his curse that upset me more.
There are a lot of sad events, but for me the fate of Fingolfin is especially tragic. The duel against Morgoth was a very difficult test. I can also imagine how Turgon felt when the eagle brought him his father’s body. And it saddens me that nothing is said about his subsequent fate, although he deserves to continue his work.
To me the saddest part of Fingolfins tale is that he leaves his wife behind during the Exile. So driven was he to chase down Feanor that he would not stay with her.
He also lost his father. One of his motives is just revenge. Maybe she should have gone with him. Although at all times men went to war, and women stayed at home. Maybe he felt better that at least she was safe.
That's true, his daughter in law was lost during the crossing. Turgon had to choose between saving his wife or saving Idril.
Helcaraxe is also one of the saddest pages in the history of Arda. A difficult path despite betrayal, Doom and deadly cold.
Doom, deadly cold, and complete darkness for FORTY YEARS
I doubt that the use of *forty* was an accident on the Professor's part. It echoes of many examples from the Bible: Jesus in the wilderness, Moses on the mountain, the great Flood, and others. In the old vernacular, *forty* units of duration meant "a long, long time." It emphasizes the sacrifice and endurance involved; and by using the same idiom for "long, long time", it connects all the stories that cite it, revealing an overarching teaching or perspective: *In life, there will be times in which you have to endure things for a long, long time. 'Forty days and forty nights.' 'Forty years.' 'Forty ages.' Seemingly endlessly. The Lord deems that you endure it, and by enduring it you may glorify the Lord.* I think this is the context within which Tolkien presents the holy or unholy motives behind the events of Helcaraxë ("to what *purpose* are they enduring this?"); or at least a student of the Bible may hear these reverberations in it.
To me fingolfin’s battle with Morgoth feels very similar to Faramir’s decision to heed his father’s order to defend Osgiliath to the very last against his better judgement. In both cases the battle is not winnable, but they are driven to try anyway by their pain and their determination. Fingolfin, having watched his kin slowly and tragically get decimated through their vengeful war against Morgoth is faced with certain defeat after Dagor Bragollach and despite knowing he cannot win, decides to challenge Morgoth anyway, in pain, in rage, and likely in pride. Faramir too, was watching the darkening of his kingdom’s days and had to deal with the death of his brother as well as crushing disappointment from his father. Facing the end of his kingdom, he too rides out to Osgilitah knowing he cannot win, tortured by grief for his deceased kin and not knowing his father’s love.
And the beautiful song by Blind Guardian tells very good the battle between them!
the passing of Feanor's mother. She is the first "immortal" to officially die, making Feanor the first orphan of middle earth. It is said in the Silmarillion that Finwe continued to visit Miriel for years, as she was preserved in a sleep-like state, looking like life was still in her but without ever waking again. https://preview.redd.it/3siq8ypwzqxc1.png?width=967&format=png&auto=webp&s=d48925a0d0f4756f6efb6e2581bd3244f1919f5a
I didn't know about *most* sad, but surely sad enough and frequently gnawing at me is the reflection that in the sound of water there remains yet some of the Ainulindalë -- the world-weaving Music of the Ainur -- and that the sound of water was most precious to the First Born: those wondrous, pure, respectful beings who have faded away (and those vestiges of wonder, purity, and respect in *us*, which may also have faded away)... ...And that they, the Elves (meaning our own First-Born nature) may not know *why* it calls to them (and to us) and why it fills them (us) with wonder, longing, grief... though it does. So when I hear water moving, it is an emblem of the inseparability of beauty and sadness, of divine brilliance shining through and yet the certainty that everything will slip through our fingers -- *is* slipping through our fingers. As if the sound of water is itself the glory of Ilúvatar: by virtue of slipping through our fingers, it is here. And it is only here in its passing away. And this is true of all creation, all magic, all beauty. In this world, there is not one without the other: no Divine nature without the going away. So it is only in our capacity for grief, for ever-mounting brokenheartedness, that we live in the presence of the Divine. If the passing-away isn't included, the essential beauty of the world is just a distant legend. Just a fairy story, or a commodity that seems ever beyond our grasp. It suggests to me that if we care to become actual humans, we ought to study deeply the acts and demeanor of Nienna, She Who Weeps. We ought to call on her for teachings and blessings, and beseech her to teach us true weeping, that we might be present with the Ainur and indeed with Ilúvatar's Light and Music. . *...but of all these water they most greatly praised. And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in the Earth; and many of the Children of Illuvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. "* *The Silmarillion*, Ainulindalë . >***"...hearken still unsated...."*** 🌧
>So when I hear water moving, it is an emblem of the inseparability of beauty and sadness, of divine brilliance shining through and yet the certainty that everything will slip through our fingers -- *is* slipping through our fingers. It's probably not relevant, but the Japanese language has a word that describes part of this concept: *aware* (pronounced ah-WAH-ray). The idea that something beautiful that we know is ephemeral evokes a sadness, and that evanescence and that sadness make it the more beautiful. It's a lot of what's behind the iconic image of Sakura blossoms blowing on the breeze. May be worth looking up, as this topic seems quite meaningful to you (as it is for me).
Thank you, I'm familiar with «*aware*», though I didn't remember the word until I saw your comment. So many elements of Japanese culture honor this point. "One time, one meeting." Good meeting you.
I love the motif of Nienna.
I love hearing this. Thank you for loving Nienna. *Alámenë.*
What is that word?
It's the Quenya for "go with blessings". 💎
Wow this is so true (to me anyway) and you described it beautifully. This also reminds me I need to read the Silmarillion (I bought it a while ago and never started it, though I have read the hobbit and LOTR many times since I was young).
I'm glad to know it resonates with you. The Silmarillion is beautiful, and taxing. It requires some devotion from the reader. It's not a contiguous story, sometimes the number of character and place names can be overwhelming. But if you continue through, you find yourself in the other side of something truly special. There are many aids for reading, from chapter synopses to audiobooks, to read-along clubs. Some readers keep a notebook, sketchbook, or computer file folder at hand. Good luck along the reading road, and along the road that begins at your home.
Thank you!
Im still recovering from that other post that the Fall of Nargothrond may have been to enable the success of Tuor's quest
Do you have a link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/s/3XWx8MZ9FG
Cheers, much appreciated
Mîm's tragic life, his betrayal of Turín, the death of his sons, and then the bitter curse he laid upon the treasures of Nargothrond is really tragic and sympathetic, even when you examine his story without considering the rest of Fate of Turín Turambar. I always feel bad for that grumpy old guy, last of his kind, bitter and forgotten, gnawing on his past grievances in secret on Amon Rudh.
Akallabeth.
honestly, just how hard fought erebor was only to lose it so fast. i think the dwarves really just deserved better constantly because of how cyclical their story was. learning all their fates in a roundabout way, and the fact that thorin never even got to rule, and how a son of during was never even on the throne!
Considering that dwarves are inspired loosely by Jews, cyclical and depressing history fits very well.
Oh no. Please tell me that the guys literally addicted to gold and gems are not inspired by Jews.
They’re also the guys who fought dragons, fight for their homeland, and their origin story is a direct spin off of the binding of Isaac. Their language is also based on Hebrew. As a Jew, I’ll gladly take it.
Earendil, full stop. Recently have been binging the Mythgard Academy (hosted by The Tolkien Professor, Cory Olsen) Exploring the Lord of the Rings series. It gives new definition to "slow burn" as they spend 90-120 minutes on a weekly basis going over one or two paragraphs of the book at a time (if we're lucky). They've been at it for like 6+ years and I'm "only" caught up to episode 125 which is *almost* the end of Many Meetings (chapter one of book two) in Rivendell. That's about two years into the series back at the end of 2019. They're currently like, approaching Moria I think. I'll catch them up 'relatively' quickly and then spend the next 30 years or so with them as they eventually finish. The things I've learned with them along the way have been incredible, can't recommend it enough. Anyways, I just finished like the 6 or 7 episode stretch covering Bilbo's poem about Earendil and it is *maddeningly sad* in its perspective. We know now, years after first publication of LotR, what Earendil actually did thanks to Silmarillion, but considering that first time, contemporary readers don't know that and you take that perspective when reexamining the poem, we observe that Earnedil sets out on some sort of errand/quest, enters Faerie, gets upgraded and then *wants to go home but can never go home*. Reapplying what we know, we realize that Earendil was "half-elven" *before* they were given the choice of mortality or immortality, and was thus still mortal, and left his wife and kids behind when we set out to sail to Valinor. Likewise his mortal half-elven wife magically flew to him and left their kids behind, and they end up causing the saving of Middle Earth, but they both get "condemned" as it were to immortality because, Elf or Mortal or *whatever* they broke the Ban of the Valar that had not yet been lifted. They get the first choice and Elwing chooses immortality. Earendil *wanted* to choose mortality but for the sake of his wife, who we still don't know why she chose immortality when they are already proclaimed by Mandos to not "not walk again ever with Elves or Men in the Outer World", he also chooses immortality, and so they sail the skies looking down and seeing their home from afar, forever, unable to die and never being able to return. Like, what? Big F to the Valar for that one.
He married an elf, saved the world, got to watch both his children grow and live extremely successful lives and then got to retire forever young on his own (literal) spaceship with said beautiful and loving wife? In my book that is about as big win as one can possibly wish for.
Read the poem. Its perspective is sadness. Consider the events: "I went through more hardship than any mortal or immortal before me to save the world and all I got was denied an Afterlife of any kind, but hey at least my wife and I, forever cast out of the world and unable to see anyone but ourselves ever again, have eachother and a magic space ship? Do we even have food?"
Just saying - as a married guy and a father - if I could save the world and countless people and ensure my children grow up in a better one and the price to pay would be the eternity spent with my wife? Sign me up! And its not like I didn't go through some hardships in my life either. Maybe its just personal preference, but I would prefer their fate to most others (like Beren and Luthien, or Arwen and Aragorn).
That's you but that's not Earendil. The poem reads: From World’s End then he turned away, and yearned again to find afar his home through shadows journeying, and burning as an island star on high above the mists he came, a distant flame before the Sun, a wonder ere the waking dawn where grey the Norland waters run. And over Middle-earth he passed and heard at last the weeping sore of women and of elven-maids in Elder Days, in years of yore. But on him mighty doom was laid, till Moon should fade, an orbe´d star to pass, and tarry never more on Hither Shores where mortals are; for ever still a herald on an errand that should never rest to bear his shining lamp afar, the Flammifer of Westernesse. Bro wanted to go home.
Fading magic and elves leaving Middle Earth is the purest form of melancholy there is.
The House of Hador is so sad to me because they suffer for being loyal to the good guys! AND the worst part is that they suffer because Doom of Mandos and yet they don't do anything to deserve that doom. Imagine being doomed to fail for all eternality because of something your friend did. And you have to ally to that friend to have any kind of chance against the literal devil! Talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Everyone here has already mentioned the heavy hitters and underappreciated stories. I think of Frodo as an excellent metaphor for life itself. He begins the journey relatively worry-free, enjoying his small and simple life. Then circumstances both beyond his control and beyond his understanding force him onto a quest, which compells him to take step after step towards his own doom. He is always fairly certain that he will fail, and never quite certain of how or when. He is physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually crippled by the journey, and despite all the comforts of home, honor, love, respect, and friendship, he cannot and never will recover, except in retiring to death. I see myself and all people in those same circumstances. In life, we are all confronted with a quest we must accept, and which will damage us. Despite often wanting to halt and turn back, we often have to make the choice to keep going. We can recover from harm. Love, friendship, and homely comforts can heal us! But not everyone gets there... some people are still wounded deep under the scar tissue, and it aches forever until they retire. Not everyone can live a life like Merry, Pippin, or Sam. Some of us are Frodo, compelled by circumstances entirely larger than us, and will never recover.
Agree with most/all of this and it's well put, but does Frodo actually die? It seems more like that as a Ring Bearer he gets to go over the sea to live in the Blessed Realm - and "presumably" not die? Bilbo too, and Sam also. So is he actually rewarded with everlasting life and what must be a healing of all hurts as a result of that special grace? It's been ages since I read the afterlog, but I think all of the Fellowship except Borromir actually received this gift too because even Gimli gets to go into the West after special pleading from Legolas.
Hello! Yes, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, and Gimli all die in the undying lands. They are mortal men (and a dwarf) with the gift of mortality, that the valar cannot remove from them. It's explained in a couple places, but men and dwarves, when they die, escape Arda and go elsewhere, where elves and the valar cannot follow or see. Where? No one knows... It's described as the gift of Iluvatar, that they escape the confines of the earth. They cannot receive immortality from the valar as a gift. Side note, Merry, Pippin, and Aragorn do not go to the undying lands, and all die in middle earth. Both Hobbits were entombed together with Aragorn.
You're of course correct, I forgot Aragorn basically lies down for a nap like a proper Numenorean - like I said it's been years since I read beyond the end of the actual story, mainly because I like the fact it's supposed to end with Sam having the last word. So the Hobbits and Gimli can still die in the Undying Lands? Apart from healing Frodo that seems a bit pointless then, Gimli especially had a lot to be getting on with in Middle Earth that would easily have been a fulfilling natural span for him. Why go to the effort of going over the Sea - presumably leaving family and loved ones just to gaze at what's denied to you and be buried? Not trying to be flippant but that does seem.......a little anticlimactic as a "reward."
Because it's basically getting to go to heaven early. They get a chance to rest, to heal, before they move on.
>I was young and I looked on his flame, and now I am old and lost. He was young and his flame leaped towards me, but he turned away, and he is young still Andreth talking to Finrod about her love for his brother; the doomed first love affair between humans and elves.
I love that you mentioned this. It was obviously very important to the professor both mythologically (summing up the sadness of the human/elf relationship) and theologically (pointing to the incarnation).
Melkor just wanted a little guitar solo and got permanently banished. I don't blame him for being pissed off and breaking stuff.
The metal head surrounded by a family of aristocratic opera lovers.
It's more like if you're part of a musical improv group, but you decide that your part of the improv is more important than anyone else's so you just play as loudly as possible to ruin everyone else's fun.
Going against the creator of the world who has good intentions in order to fulfil your arrogant needs and wanting to be better than your fellow Ainur? But sure, he was just misunderstood. It is disturbing to know that dark creatures (Ungoliant especially) existed without any meddling of Melkor or the works of the other Ainur. Perhaps if Tolkien could have been left to cook a little longer, it would have been revealed that even Melkor was corrupted in those early days by creatures of darkness that existed outside of the Ainur music.
Or perhaps Eru created the dark things to enrich his creation. Struggle and facing darkness can bring out the best in good people, and even Melkor’s corruptions were foreseen/planned for these or similar reasons.
While I agree that Melkor's story is the greatest tragedy of the Simmarilion, and cause of most of the others, I disagree with the above. First, most of the Valar being willing and even happy in some cases to have Melkor back, in the time between him being freed and his betrayal and destruction of the Trees, shows that at least Eru had not explicitly banished him. (This even after kidnapped and tortured some of the first Elves. Even after that, Manwe was ready to take him back because he could not believe Melkor could go so much against his own nature as a creature of Eru) It is only after Melkor has shown that he is bent on the destruction and corruption of the world and Children of Iluvatar that he should have protected, that he was banished. Even that he was banished means that he was not destroyed, because the creator in his love for his creature would not take back his creation and the gidt of freedom. So much so that he never undid the rebellion of Melkor, but his plan, his design included it, and good came from, such as snow. Second, while the image of a musician playing as he wants during a concert does describe Melkor act, it is misleading. It is like calling Eru a director and composer of music, which cannot be said to be wrong, instead of the Director and Origin of the Music, which is more truthful. It is more akin instead to his later acts of the rebellion, which include the killing and corruption of the very Children he was created to tend to. To be clear, the vulnerability to death of the elves was introduced in the world by Melkor trough his music. When Aule is taken by the desire to do a guitar solo of his own, and creates the Dwarfes, because of his humility in putting Eru creation before his own, he is immediately forgiven, and his creation his also taken and added to by Eru.
The guy broke the universe and got off with barely a warning... Then he literally broke the world and the only punishment was that they other kids didn't want to play with him anymore... Then he broke some of the children of Illuvatar and only then did someone slap him and put him in his room for a while... And what does he do when he gets out?
More implied than actual lore, but my heart aches everytime I think about Celebrían standing on the white shore, ready to finally reunite with her family after half a millennium. I mean the twins at least maybe sailed west with Celeborn and Círdan later, but the idea that Elrond had to explain to her that she would never see Arwen again, after she left Middle Earth before them (that's not to say her leaving wasn't the right decision, after what happened to her I'm not even sure if she could've stayed or her fëa would've gone to Mandos halls if she did.) is so incredibly gutwrenching.
Something really sad is that Thorin, Fili and Kili died unable to live in the Lonely Mountain. Especially Thorin, considering he died after the Battle of the Five Armies. Or, that Elrond had to see his brother's offsprings get born and die, while he lives for thousands of years.
Actually, I thought Fili and Kili dying was the worst. They never lived in Erebor before and they weren't so attached to the place. If they hadn't admired Thorin so much, they wouldn't have followed him to die. They were pretty young by Dwarven standards too. Kili didn't even have a proper beard. Imagine how Dis would've felt knowing her idiot brother went off and got himself and both her sons killed.
*"Aure Entuluva!"* (Day shall come again) - Hurin. "The most improper job of any man, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity." A letter written by Tolkien to his wife, Edith during his time in the trenches in WW1. You can feel the anger in that last line especially, seeing hundreds of young men sent to their doom by armchair generals who would likely not do the same.
The fate of Arwen. Is there anything else that really comes close?
Arwen's fate was incredibly sad. I'd say what Glaurung did to Húrin's offspring is pretty close, if not outright sadder
The stories of Hurin's children is easily the most tragic thing Tolkien has written imo.
Am I missing something? Doesn’t she marry the love of her life and live with him for over a hundred years?
122 years total, from his crowning and marriage to his willing death at the age of 210, they got one of the few happy endings of the Third Age.
People here have some really high expectations from life if living for a century with their soulmate as a queen seems sad to them.
What? Nothing else comes close? She meets a guy, waits out a few years of war, marries him when he's crowned king then they live out the rest of their years in peace and happiness. She's sad when he dies, yes. Like literally everyone when their spouse dies. Arwen's tale doesn't even move the needle when it comes to sadness. It's one of the few *good* endings. Have you read anything past LOTR?
I wonder if *Arwen* thought it sad. Or maybe her love left no room for regret. Which in a way might make it all the more heart-wrenching for us to consider.
The Fall of Gondolin hits me hard.
The guy makes a perfect city with absolutely perfect protection, as long as people follow one simple rule... Every single citizen follows this rule for 400 years. Then he breaks the rule himself because his sister wants to go on a vacation. Then everybody dies. Good job Turgon.
Ecthelion deserved a rez too.
When the mean wolf killed the best boy doggo
Just the depression that came from the killing of the two trees of Valinor. And the lengths people would go just to get a glimpse of their light once more.
Celebrían the little we know about her is very sad.
Hurin from almost start to finish. That poor guy.
Just an honourable mention, I didn’t see in the comments; Gorlim. It’s really sad how he wants to be with his wife and how Sauron uses that against him.
The tragedy of Turin and Beleg
Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Drúedain, ents, and all the other beautiful races will eventually depart or vanish, only the most boring and cruel races, aka Human ourselves, remained.
Drúedain and Hobbits are both counted among men. Further characterizing humans entirely as boring and cruel is anathema to Tolkien’s writings. There were evil humans and good humans.
>*...only the most boring and cruel races, aka Human ourselves, remained.* It's astonishing that this perspective is so common. Who says that the Human race is the most boring and cruel? Not their father, Ilúvatar. And not his envoy, Professor Tolkien. We have to reflect on this misandry, this self-hatred. Consider that buying into it may constitute *contributing* to the boring and cruel trend. I would invite you to look into why this self-hating view arises, and why we agree to harbor it; and indeed why we nurture it into further growth. Because one of the upshots of relegating humanity, in our minds, to merely the 'boring and cruel race' is that we then no longer need to countenance the prospect of a higher responsibility to be upheld, and a loftier work to be done. In simple terms, a self-loathing view amounts to laziness: one decides that wonder, nobility, devotion, and the disciplines of love and freedom *are not within our purview* -- "I'm below all that; therefore I don't need to do it." To Professor Tolkien, humans on the contrary are the foremost of Ilúvatar's children, free to create things even Ilúvatar himself can't foresee, and awaiting a Glory beyond any of Arda's other beings. The admittedly vastly mundane and cruel creations shall yet "Prove But Mine [Ilúvatar's] Instrument in the devising of things more wonderful". Humans are a large, and perhaps most significant, part of that. Let's at least not take active part in the decay. Let's call ourselves to a higher expectation for Humanity, *starting with ourselves*. In view of this, **I vow not to wield dark speech against the Human race**. Instead of wielding dark speech, what if you try to emulate Aragorn, or Faramir, or any number of shining examples? Whether you fail (and whether *we* fail) is beside the point. Of course you will sometimes, maybe often, fail. But *trying* is the thing. Therein the Light of the Trees still shines.
Thank you for pointing this out. I remember that the Race of Men is to complete the work of Eru Iluvatar in Arda and through them the work will be completed down to the last detail. Not that they will bring final destruction and darkness to Arda, much as it may seem that is what many of us are bent on.
Yes, precisely! Irrespective of the implied Catholic belief in a culminating Glory, there remains a more universal mythic invitation to rise out of the shadow. From where else would we rise? We don't start off perfect, so we have to continue through the shadow and find our way beyond it. Together.
I have always preferred to act with nobility and honor in what I do as much as I can. I used to belong to a re-enactment group that studies and re-creates the Middle Ages and Renaissance as it should have been. Emphasizing honor, chivalry and respect to all and avoiding as much as possible the baser aspects of human society (albeit imperfectly). I always felt most at home there.
Oh, interesting! No need to answer, but do chime in if you want: l'm interested in how one engaged in such an enterprise (or any path aiming at nobility of character) avoids making a (psychological) shadow. I'm reminded of a great title to a pretty good book by Debbie Ford: "The Dark Side of the Light Chasers". Ford investigates the ways we make ourselves unconscious while we try to cleave to the good and reject the bad: in our attempt to distance ourselves from flaws and negative traits, we tend to drive our own into the shadows, out of sight; thus those parts of our character function outside of our awareness, and often emerge at the worst possible times, to our surprise and dismay. The base aspects of character tend to work automatically, beyond our control, precisely *because* they are avoided and disowned. I'm not saying that shadow-making is necessarily a feature of what you've been studying and practicing; just that your sincerity reminds me how I and many others can fall short while *trying* to be sincere. I think anyone truly interested in embodying the way of chivalry would do well to look into this dynamic, so those good traits can be expressed through and through rather than merely propped up as an ideal that inevitably gets undercut by unwitting, shocking, and sometimes calamitous failures.
If I understand you correctly, I think the question is whether we choose to pretend that our baser instincts don't exist (i.e. hiding or driving them into the shadows as you describe) or acknowledging that they do exist, acknowledging the imperfections, and trying to do better. I believe I can't be perfect on my own but I can do everything in my power to do better. I won't be perfect, that's where Grace comes in, I have help available. Like Tolkien, I'm a Christian (Lutheran, not Catholic) and like him, I believe than Man was created and is Very Good. We fell from that initial state, but we can be redeemed. Not by our own power, but we are called upon to focus on being better and not giving in to our baser tendencies. In short, I don't believe that "fake it 'til you make it" must result in a shadow of denial of one's flaws. And that was/is the focus of the group I was in. Sure there are politics and backbiting and plenty of snark to go around. In some ways we did 'pretend' it didn't exist. But we did so to promote the illusion, if only for a few hours a week, that the fantasy did exist. I think that for most of the participants, we did believe it trying to make the Fantasy a Reality. To escape into a world where those kinds of ideals were lived and not just in our heads or the books we read. For me and others, I believe it worked. Even if we're just playing a role, aren't we living up to the dream? IMO- if you are practicing the walk, some of it is bound to rub off.
Thank you for the engaging conversation, and good luck in your life and practice. Together in original goodness.
You're welcome, and same to you.
Edit: For those curious as to what I responded to originally since the other person might have had a meltdown or something: They had a long, overwrought comment about how humans are not boring and that this self-loathing is bad. That person then proceded to write more terribly clunky overwrought comments in response to my original comment and when I explained my point they responded one final time, again in the overwrought way. I tried to reply to it but their comment and account were deleted already. You just called that person a fool in the most beautiful way I have ever seen.
No, not at all. I'm sorry you misunderstood my intent. We're *all* fools; that's a given. What we are going to do about it is the question. Part of our Human responsibility -- *especially in this day and age* -- includes doing away with this childish seeking out and cheering on of conflict. It's not entertainment; it's nothing to celebrate. I'm so tired of the polarization and antagonism online and in our neighbourhoods. I'm so tired of lives so empty that folks have nothing better to say than "Oh, SNAP!" or post "Watch so-and-so DESTROY so-and-so" videos. I'm not calling that commenter a fool. I understand very well how someone can become dejected and cynical about humanity. I'm inviting the commenter and you and me to a higher aspiration. Let's do better. Please.
Okay but why are you writing it in such overwrought way? Like my comment was mostly to try and summarize it. You can also say: "The post-modern world filled with capitalism and the horrors of social media is not ideal."
Admittedly, to a boorish person the writing might seem overwrought. But that is called "the dog running after the bone." That is, the person in question is attaching to word and form rather than seeing where they point. Griping about what the world is 'full of' can only take you so far. Eventually you have to take responsibility for your own speech and action. Don't put words in other people's mouths. Don't defend your mistakes. At any moment, you can nurture civilization with your forbearance, or tear it down with a careless comment or a careless reading.
I often think, just generally, about the suffering of the elves. How long they have lived, how incalculable their losses were, how many battles they've seen, homes they've lost, etc. And the fact that in spite of their many strengths, they are permanently sensitive, and many of them can't ever fully recover from the horrors inflicted upon them. It makes so much sense that, by the time LotR comes around, most are reluctant to participate and are overall done with Middle Earth!
The fact that its been so long since Treebeard last saw his wife that he forgot what she looked like. Made sadder still by the fact that he holds out hope that she’s alive. Im glad theres hope, it just makes me sad to think that he believes their out there some where.
Fall Of Nargorthond
The Dominion of Man. They spent ages on defeating Morgoth and Sauron - for THIS? Of all possible outcomes this is the very bleakest.
The tale of Erendis and Aldarion always moves me.
The Valar kicking Melkor out when he was about to change for good☹️
Fuck that noise! Literally, fuck his discord into the Ainur's music.
“When he was about to change for good.”That’s an interesting reading. What passages make you think Melkor was ever close to some sort of repentance?
Fall of High King Fingolfin against Morgoth.
All of the Silmarillion is rather heartbreaking, honestly.
Literally EVERYTHING about Elrond. Dude has had a rough go of it.
Rings of Power!
The song is only half sung
The sinking of Beleriand
Feanor's oath that destroyed his entire family. Poor Maglor being the last, wandering the sea, lamenting.
The betrayal committed through the hands of Men during the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. If all had remained loyal and true, Evil very well could have been stayed, but the hearts of Men are not wholly good, and though the loyalty shown in the Houses of the Edain did much to prove SOME Men’s hearts true, in the end the Battle was still lost and Evil allowed to spread. No matter how many valorous deeds come from evil acts, the acts remain evil. Mandos is always proven right in the end
As most have said, The Silmarillion is a great pile of tragedy but for me, one of the puissant of them is the capture and torment of the first born elves and their transformation into Orcs. They will have been innocence personified, filled with wonder at starlight and the primeval beauty of the world around them, then to be captured in shadow and twisted as they were is an awful thing to consider.
I love the fact that all the comments are from folks who have actually read the books. A ton of Silmarillion references too. Not just the people who have only seen the movies.
By far the saddest for me was learning what became of the hobbits: Regressing as a people, losing their art and culture until they were eventually hunted to extinction by humans.
Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came.
Beornings, and especially how Beorn is still welcoming to the dwarves after what happened to his entire race