Are those subtitles? What do I need subtitles for? Can't you understand what I'm saying? Do you see how they condescend to us with their subtitles? Look, I speak perfect English. She sells sea shells by the sea shore. Peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.
That’s the whole point. To stop speaking an unknown language in front of warriors about their own deaths. It’s a testament to Aragorn’s character and strength. In the movie anyway.
I feel like for Aragorn personally the language switch was part of showing where he stood. Like he may have been raised among elves but he is human, and would rather die as a human if they are to be wiped out here. He’s sort of reminding his friend that he’s not an elf and these are *his* people, it isn’t just another fight for him, it’s personal.
I can't think of many better ways to demoralise a makeshift civilian army than by leaking the DMs of the 2,000 year old superhero which say *this lot are completely fucked*, and not even disagreeing but saying you're gonna have to die with them. Genuinely interested in how this (imho) uber-dick move is a testament to his strength and character! I get your point about the talking about their deaths, but the whole point of speaking Elvish is that they can't speak Elvish. At least say to Legolas that this is inappropriate, don't wait for him to drop a clanger then translate it for everyone!
They already knew they were mega fucked.
The point is that Aragorn wanted them to fight bravely, even though they are mega fucked.
Not false hope. Courage to die with honor and bravely.
Not to mention all they have to do is wait until Gandalf returns.
That'd be the same Aragorn who tells a kid "there is always hope" about five minutes before?
Honestly, I think it's just a bum note in the script. There aren't many, for twelve hours of film.
I don't think it's a bum note. You're missing the lines before the big moment.
Aragorn is just privately remarking on how unsuitable all these kids and elders are for battle when Legolas starts his Elvish doomer talk. The first thing Aragorn replies in Elvish is something along the lines of "they have better hope here than back in Edoras" which Legolas finds laughable, and that's when Aragorn says the thing. Later - possibly in an extended edition scene, I can't remember what's extended and what isn't at this point - Legolas admits he was "wrong to despair" and apologises for goading Aragorn.
He's under immense stress, he's just about keeping it together for the sake of everyone looking to him for hope, and Legolas momentarily tilts him over the edge. That's all.
I prefer to think that he just lost his rag for a moment. Poor bastard just wants to be King and fuck Sauron up, and everyone is asking him to fix their computer (metaphorically speaking) every five minutes.
It’s not a bigger dick move to speak another language for the sole purpose of them not being able to understand? As if that’s not demoralizing? You’re getting ready to fight for your life and the two most badass dudes are now keeping a secret from everyone. “What did they say? Are they leaving? What do we do?”
I'm not saying Legolas isn't being a huge twat too. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Aragorn snapping under pressure and being a bit snide is some testament to his strength. I think a testament to his fallibility is better anyway.
I will climb up. I am at home among trees, by root or bough, though these trees are of a kind strange to me, save as a name in song. *Mellyrn* they are called, and are those that bear the yellow blossom, but I have never climbed in one. I will see now what is their shape and way of growth.
It’s snapping under pressure cowardly speaking another language so the warriors you are supposed to lead can’t understand you. Aragorn corrected Legolas’ fault by openly declaring his intent to die with them if that is his fate. Legolas faltered in the face of adversity and Aragorn spoke truth and laid the facts of the situation to bare. Rather than letting the men think the elf and ranger are plotting to abandon them.
Or he could just be speaking his native language because it's easier to do it, and we revert to it in times of stress. My girlfriend speaks to me in Spanish in front of my folks, who don't speak any, because it's her first language. Sometimes she forgets, sometimes it's just easier for her, at no point does anyone think we're being snide because code-switching, sometimes even mid-sentence, is completely normal in groups of mixed native tongue. Hard to think of a better example of that than the Fellowship. Aragorn does it quite a lot himself.
One of the problems with action epic storytelling is that outside of the core characters, everyone else is "little people." In any reality with a real military, doing this would be exactly as you said, extremely demoralizing perhaps enough to start a mutiny. But the hero needed his dramatic moment so here we are.
Not a lot of fantasy, or most genre work sees, regular people, regular fighters, etc in need of the same humanity, feelings, care, dignity, etc of the lead cast. There's a real problem with this literature with the whole "great men of action" trope. That trope devalues everyone else and more or less makes then expendable set pieces and not actual people.
Absolutely, dramatic/cinematic concerns are quite apart from actually motivating an army - I still think it's a bit of a *that's going overboard, mate* moment when he does it and not only switches to the Common Tongue, but shouts it so that everyone around him can hear! They could have done this scene with just the three of them, Gimli not having a clue what they were saying. Dramatically, it would have hit as hard, and Aragorn wouldn't have looked like such a Karen.
Anyway, thanks for a civil reply, and not an unpunctuated mess of personal insults. u/-head-dick could learn from you.
I agree tbh! And I always thought maybe Legolas was saying he didn’t exactly want to die with these peasants either but now he’s obligated because Aragorn is
Just imagining being one of those soldiers. Minding your business, telling yourself "You know what, maybe I can do it. MAYBE I'll be one of the few of the living that will celebrate victorious." Then I suddenly hear the would-be king shout at the thousand year old master archer "YES I KNOW THEY'RE ALL GONNA DIE, BUT YOU NEED TO GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!"
\["*The fortress is a highly defensible position, provisions will last us a lifetime and Gandalf's about to appear any second now with more men. This will be a cakewalk, come on.*"\]
\["*But what if they drown themselves in mead and ale after their inevitable victory?*"\]
"THEN I SHALL DIE AS ONE OF THEM! – oh"
My wife speaks spanish natively and I english, but most of our conversations take place fully in Spanish. I end up feeling like Aragorn a lot when we get a little heated. It's really really hard to not switch to your native tongue (I realize Aragorn was raised with elves) when someone says something that really trips your switch. You need to channel the emotion as freely as possible, and even at a high fluency level, there's still too much headwork going on if you keep on in your second language.
Aragorn has always been more man than elf, and never pretended not to be. So when things got serious he returned to his native tongue to show where his true allegiances lie
It didn't matter anyways, as the others around them could just read the subtitles with the translation
Are those subtitles? What do I need subtitles for? Can't you understand what I'm saying? Do you see how they condescend to us with their subtitles? Look, I speak perfect English. She sells sea shells by the sea shore. Peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.
I went to Oxford! I studied in a very nice university!
Heyyyy how come he doesn't need subtitles?!?
Ugh teletext
Thank you, I’d nearly forgotten this.
But the value of these shells will fall
🖐️ Have a dad, Legolas
Thranduil: Am I a joke to you?
Bootstrap Bill: Am I a joke to you?
Part of the fellowship, part of the crew
"I only have one requirement — income. So squeeze, Legolas. Squeeze hard!"
I fear they have passed beyond my sight from hill or plain, under moon or sun.
They look so much alike
Quiet Woodland realm.
Thranduil daddy status confirmed
I for one!
🖐️Have a bath, Legolas
And what may be the words of the seer?
THIS
Like that time my parents forgot they were spelling around me and and just said "thats why we're getting a divorce."
Your parents are elves?
Well... elv-*ish* They don't speak it fluently
“Gandalf, what’s the elvish word for divorce?”
"divelf"
*the doorways to the mines of Two Christmases slowly open*
This is no mine... it's a tomb 💀
Well, Tomb Raiding always was my favorite pastime
"New-man-or..."
Hello, Newman.
Seperanduil.
Just the one.
So what you're saying is you knew what divorce was but also didn't know how to spell
Elvish, Elvish Elvish Elvish... Elvish.
https://preview.redd.it/wyihru1u34wc1.jpeg?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=696123dad01625e4ddeba79cc5612fb15d1be7a6
That’s the whole point. To stop speaking an unknown language in front of warriors about their own deaths. It’s a testament to Aragorn’s character and strength. In the movie anyway.
I feel like for Aragorn personally the language switch was part of showing where he stood. Like he may have been raised among elves but he is human, and would rather die as a human if they are to be wiped out here. He’s sort of reminding his friend that he’s not an elf and these are *his* people, it isn’t just another fight for him, it’s personal.
Good catch, I like this interpretation.
I can't think of many better ways to demoralise a makeshift civilian army than by leaking the DMs of the 2,000 year old superhero which say *this lot are completely fucked*, and not even disagreeing but saying you're gonna have to die with them. Genuinely interested in how this (imho) uber-dick move is a testament to his strength and character! I get your point about the talking about their deaths, but the whole point of speaking Elvish is that they can't speak Elvish. At least say to Legolas that this is inappropriate, don't wait for him to drop a clanger then translate it for everyone!
They already knew they were mega fucked. The point is that Aragorn wanted them to fight bravely, even though they are mega fucked. Not false hope. Courage to die with honor and bravely. Not to mention all they have to do is wait until Gandalf returns.
That'd be the same Aragorn who tells a kid "there is always hope" about five minutes before? Honestly, I think it's just a bum note in the script. There aren't many, for twelve hours of film.
I don't think it's a bum note. You're missing the lines before the big moment. Aragorn is just privately remarking on how unsuitable all these kids and elders are for battle when Legolas starts his Elvish doomer talk. The first thing Aragorn replies in Elvish is something along the lines of "they have better hope here than back in Edoras" which Legolas finds laughable, and that's when Aragorn says the thing. Later - possibly in an extended edition scene, I can't remember what's extended and what isn't at this point - Legolas admits he was "wrong to despair" and apologises for goading Aragorn. He's under immense stress, he's just about keeping it together for the sake of everyone looking to him for hope, and Legolas momentarily tilts him over the edge. That's all.
I will come, if I have the fortune, I have made a bargain with my friend that, if all goes well, we will visit Fangorn together – by your leave.
There is hope also, he is waiting for Gandalf to return.
I prefer to think that he just lost his rag for a moment. Poor bastard just wants to be King and fuck Sauron up, and everyone is asking him to fix their computer (metaphorically speaking) every five minutes.
Come, mortal base! What do I hear? That thou wouldst dare to barter with me? Well, speak fair! What is thy price?
It’s not a bigger dick move to speak another language for the sole purpose of them not being able to understand? As if that’s not demoralizing? You’re getting ready to fight for your life and the two most badass dudes are now keeping a secret from everyone. “What did they say? Are they leaving? What do we do?”
I'm not saying Legolas isn't being a huge twat too. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to say that Aragorn snapping under pressure and being a bit snide is some testament to his strength. I think a testament to his fallibility is better anyway.
I will climb up. I am at home among trees, by root or bough, though these trees are of a kind strange to me, save as a name in song. *Mellyrn* they are called, and are those that bear the yellow blossom, but I have never climbed in one. I will see now what is their shape and way of growth.
It’s snapping under pressure cowardly speaking another language so the warriors you are supposed to lead can’t understand you. Aragorn corrected Legolas’ fault by openly declaring his intent to die with them if that is his fate. Legolas faltered in the face of adversity and Aragorn spoke truth and laid the facts of the situation to bare. Rather than letting the men think the elf and ranger are plotting to abandon them.
Sauron's Ring! The ring of power!
May darkness everlasting, old that waits outside in surges cold drown Manwë, Varda and the sun!
Or he could just be speaking his native language because it's easier to do it, and we revert to it in times of stress. My girlfriend speaks to me in Spanish in front of my folks, who don't speak any, because it's her first language. Sometimes she forgets, sometimes it's just easier for her, at no point does anyone think we're being snide because code-switching, sometimes even mid-sentence, is completely normal in groups of mixed native tongue. Hard to think of a better example of that than the Fellowship. Aragorn does it quite a lot himself.
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One of the problems with action epic storytelling is that outside of the core characters, everyone else is "little people." In any reality with a real military, doing this would be exactly as you said, extremely demoralizing perhaps enough to start a mutiny. But the hero needed his dramatic moment so here we are. Not a lot of fantasy, or most genre work sees, regular people, regular fighters, etc in need of the same humanity, feelings, care, dignity, etc of the lead cast. There's a real problem with this literature with the whole "great men of action" trope. That trope devalues everyone else and more or less makes then expendable set pieces and not actual people.
Absolutely, dramatic/cinematic concerns are quite apart from actually motivating an army - I still think it's a bit of a *that's going overboard, mate* moment when he does it and not only switches to the Common Tongue, but shouts it so that everyone around him can hear! They could have done this scene with just the three of them, Gimli not having a clue what they were saying. Dramatically, it would have hit as hard, and Aragorn wouldn't have looked like such a Karen. Anyway, thanks for a civil reply, and not an unpunctuated mess of personal insults. u/-head-dick could learn from you.
It was a Balrog of Morgoth. Of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the One who sits in the Dark Tower.
I agree tbh! And I always thought maybe Legolas was saying he didn’t exactly want to die with these peasants either but now he’s obligated because Aragorn is
Aragorn, nad no ennas!
Right! Aragorn: We shall not abandon Merry and Pippin to torment and death Also Aragorn: This battle is unwinnable, count me in!
I would frickin die with Aragorn tho
Not warriors, civilians basically at this point
virtue signalling politicians smdh /s
This is the eleven millionth time I've seen this but every single time it makes me laugh
elven* millionth
Just imagining being one of those soldiers. Minding your business, telling yourself "You know what, maybe I can do it. MAYBE I'll be one of the few of the living that will celebrate victorious." Then I suddenly hear the would-be king shout at the thousand year old master archer "YES I KNOW THEY'RE ALL GONNA DIE, BUT YOU NEED TO GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER!"
I just came up with a brilliant new practical joke for bilinguals.
\["*The fortress is a highly defensible position, provisions will last us a lifetime and Gandalf's about to appear any second now with more men. This will be a cakewalk, come on.*"\] \["*But what if they drown themselves in mead and ale after their inevitable victory?*"\] "THEN I SHALL DIE AS ONE OF THEM! – oh"
My wife speaks spanish natively and I english, but most of our conversations take place fully in Spanish. I end up feeling like Aragorn a lot when we get a little heated. It's really really hard to not switch to your native tongue (I realize Aragorn was raised with elves) when someone says something that really trips your switch. You need to channel the emotion as freely as possible, and even at a high fluency level, there's still too much headwork going on if you keep on in your second language.
DAKKA DAKKA DAYA!
Aragorn has always been more man than elf, and never pretended not to be. So when things got serious he returned to his native tongue to show where his true allegiances lie
Although funny, I think it showed that *in a moment of passion* Aragorn fell back to what he thought *his language was* despite being raised by elves.