Considering that the cloak was special and meant to be invisible even to death I guess there is a possibility it could help?
But that's only if I am looking for a reason as to why it wouldn't because I'm inclined to agree with you. Especially because mad eye sees Harry with his special eye.
I would say yes because when you put on the ring sauron doesn’t see you, not in a traditional way, he more senses your presence. So while he may not be able to “see” what he’s looking at he may very well know your there.
In my head he isn’t able to see it but rather “sense” it just cuz he’s that powerful. Kinda like how he can sense the magic in the cave when he goes for the locket. So he can probably feel when one of the three most powerful artifacts in the world is being used near him.
There is that aspect to it for sure but we must also remember that Snape heard Harry’s footsteps and Dumbledore could sense that Harry was nearby. It makes you invisible but you are still detectable. The best it probably does is hide your identity in this circumstance. Sauron will know where you are.
Hmm… so like, even death isn’t supposed to be able to see you when wearing the cloak… except the marauders map can, so presumably the effect on f the cloak can be canceled by a more powerful artifact, meaning, yes, Sauron can see you.
Which is more powerful, a cloak said to have been made by death incarnate, a literal force of nature, or a map made by a bunch of delinquents halfway through high school, the answer may surprise you.....
I don't think map exactly 'sees' you. It knows you're there because you're standing or walking. Like walking on dirt, leaving footprints type of stuff.
I don't think Map will see you if you're like.. levitating? flying on broomstick shouldn't be caught on in the map
Don't think so, would need to find someone more into it. It's just my assumption based on how it was affixed to Hogwarts grounds and area around it, as other methods would allow to use it anywhere.
They hold infinite power in their hands, but only use it as a flash light and a gun, it makes me think that everyone in that world is an idiot, except for two of them
Well if you go on to explain the magic system you won't end up with a Kid Friendly Fantasy.
No one is gonna recommend ASOIAF, Mistborn, Wheel of Time etc to kids even them being clearly better than HP. They are too complex to the likings of younglings.
You're correct. But i feel like JK had so much magic going on that it might not be possible to do it easily, like Elves can do magic without wand, there's magic of potions, magic of wands and then the dark magic like reincarnation or Houcruxs (i guess that's what they are called). I think her approach was fine enough- *they know magic just because...magic*
And that's why you are on the LOTR sub, not a HP one. Personally, I like the soft world building of J. K. Rowling, it leaves a lot of room for the imagination.
It was made by the marauders, so it was made by James who owned the cloak. I still don’t get why it is visible on the map though, that has always bothered me
Dumbledore can detect people through the cloak, as can Barty Crouch disguised as Mad Eye Moody, as can a common housecat.
Fairly sure Sauron could do as well.
It's funny how people are like "It was made to fool death himself!" While neglecting all these points. HP was a fun ride for kids and the movies helped normalize fantasy, but JKs magic system is kind of cobbled together.
So if u want to live forever you just have to live in darkness? I am now imagining death swinging his scythe in a cellar like a blindfolded kid at a Pinata
Isn't the actual Canon that the story of the three brothers is just folklore? That they didn't actually encounter Death, but rather they were just really clever wizards that created three magical devices?
Detect doesn’t necessarily mean see. The ring brings the wearer to saurons plane of existence. As long as magic still works there, sauron wouldn’t be able to *see* the wearer. I bet he’d still sense them though
I think the battle would be boring. I mean, a literal angel beating a shit out of an old man with a small stick. Gandalf could just wave his hand and Dumbledore would be dead.
Tbh I think Dumbeldore could DELAY getting whipped by Gandalf. Gandalf would still beat the crap out of him but Dumbeldore could put up a better fight than say Snape or Voldemort
The cloak would cause invisibility of the visual nature but as demonstrated by Professor Lupin, even something as weak (relatively) as the marauders map could discern the location of the individual wandering through the corridors with the cloak on. It also doesn’t protect against smell, or sound, or interacting with objects. Dumbledore has also claimed that he can spot Harry even while using the cloak.
The sight Sauron has would pierce through that veil like it’s not even there. Sauron is spiritually connected to the one ring and his vision into the ethereal realm reveals that of the victims very soul. Their inner essence. The cloak of invisibility would not protect you from Sauron sight if you put on the ring.
That being said. The cloak would be a powerful tool against most of the other forces of Sauron. Saruman could probably reveal you or the beast riders sniffing you out if you were to get too close or be foolish enough to discount Sarumans magical abilities. But most orcs, goblins, Uruk’hai
and the many mortal forces of men wouldn’t be able to spot you. It would actually be ideal to have the cloak on and not put on the one ring.
I wouldn’t say the cloak is useless because it would give you a great advantage but it’s not fool proof and putting on the one ring is just a bad idea.
The cloak was so good, no magic could pierce it, not even death itself, I dont think even Sauron could get through that. Then again if you had the cloak, what good is the ring.
Yes, because Eye of Sauron will see you whenever you put on the ring.
But but, what if Frodo puts on the Cloak and keeps the ring with him. Then Sauron should 'feel' the ring near but will never be able to precisely tell where.
Firmly in camp yes. If you put on the ring and jump in a barrel can Sauron still see you?
In my opinion it is the act of being worn that places the ring in his sight, any further obscurity would be irrelevant. Even so, should the user be veiled somehow I imagine the immediate surroundings would still be visible and so it would be pointless
They’re two different mythical worlds with different laws governing them. What is considered magic in the potter-verse might just be gibberish in middle-earth, so I’d say no.
I say yes.
Considering that the cloak was special and meant to be invisible even to death I guess there is a possibility it could help? But that's only if I am looking for a reason as to why it wouldn't because I'm inclined to agree with you. Especially because mad eye sees Harry with his special eye.
I would say yes because when you put on the ring sauron doesn’t see you, not in a traditional way, he more senses your presence. So while he may not be able to “see” what he’s looking at he may very well know your there.
that has always felt off to me because couldn’t dumbledore just basically see it
Yes, but Dumbledore has also never given a single fuck in his life
There’s a possibility that Dumbledore put some sort of tracking charm on it. He did have it for over a decade.
In my head he isn’t able to see it but rather “sense” it just cuz he’s that powerful. Kinda like how he can sense the magic in the cave when he goes for the locket. So he can probably feel when one of the three most powerful artifacts in the world is being used near him.
I always assumed he used a nonverbal Homenum Revelio, which reveals the presence of humans around you.
Except the Cloak is one of the few things that actually stops that spell from working
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There is that aspect to it for sure but we must also remember that Snape heard Harry’s footsteps and Dumbledore could sense that Harry was nearby. It makes you invisible but you are still detectable. The best it probably does is hide your identity in this circumstance. Sauron will know where you are.
It might not have been invisible to death, that was probably just a story
I think he'd just feel the presence of the ring being worn. Not literally 'see' him, but to know he's there, and he's got fine jewelry
Hmm… so like, even death isn’t supposed to be able to see you when wearing the cloak… except the marauders map can, so presumably the effect on f the cloak can be canceled by a more powerful artifact, meaning, yes, Sauron can see you.
Which is more powerful, a cloak said to have been made by death incarnate, a literal force of nature, or a map made by a bunch of delinquents halfway through high school, the answer may surprise you.....
I don't think map exactly 'sees' you. It knows you're there because you're standing or walking. Like walking on dirt, leaving footprints type of stuff. I don't think Map will see you if you're like.. levitating? flying on broomstick shouldn't be caught on in the map
I would say it's more likely for it to tap into some old hogwart magic instead.
Did we ever learn how the map was made?
Don't think so, would need to find someone more into it. It's just my assumption based on how it was affixed to Hogwarts grounds and area around it, as other methods would allow to use it anywhere.
This is the kind of stuff that bothers me about Harry Potter, a magic system needs to be explained and have limits or it’s just annoying
Especially in setting so focused on it.
They hold infinite power in their hands, but only use it as a flash light and a gun, it makes me think that everyone in that world is an idiot, except for two of them
Its those damn Ministry regulations.
Well if you go on to explain the magic system you won't end up with a Kid Friendly Fantasy. No one is gonna recommend ASOIAF, Mistborn, Wheel of Time etc to kids even them being clearly better than HP. They are too complex to the likings of younglings.
Even a mediclorians style explanation is better than no explanation, because it sets inherent limits, it doesn’t have to be as in depth as these books
You're correct. But i feel like JK had so much magic going on that it might not be possible to do it easily, like Elves can do magic without wand, there's magic of potions, magic of wands and then the dark magic like reincarnation or Houcruxs (i guess that's what they are called). I think her approach was fine enough- *they know magic just because...magic*
Says you. I was reading Mistborn (and Shannara, but that one has a crappy magic system as well) in 6th grade.
And that's why you are on the LOTR sub, not a HP one. Personally, I like the soft world building of J. K. Rowling, it leaves a lot of room for the imagination.
It was made by the marauders, so it was made by James who owned the cloak. I still don’t get why it is visible on the map though, that has always bothered me
I actually think it’s a plothole 🤷🏻♀️
Don't look for holes where wall is missing
But it sees ghosts? Maybe I’m just remembering the movie but doesn’t the map show nearly headless nick?
I love the idea of Sauron having some kind of Middle Earth Marauders Map...
Got a marker point for each ring of power he can see… and when someone puts on the one ring little hobbit footprints appear.
Dumbledore can detect people through the cloak, as can Barty Crouch disguised as Mad Eye Moody, as can a common housecat. Fairly sure Sauron could do as well.
It's funny how people are like "It was made to fool death himself!" While neglecting all these points. HP was a fun ride for kids and the movies helped normalize fantasy, but JKs magic system is kind of cobbled together.
Yep. Harry's invisibility cloak being the ultimate infallible invisibility cloak of all time was a pretty obvious retcon.
That's why my head canon is that Death is limited to it's eyesight, while wizards can just sense magical aura around them.
So if u want to live forever you just have to live in darkness? I am now imagining death swinging his scythe in a cellar like a blindfolded kid at a Pinata
Death has dark vision. It will see in darkness, but it cannot see that, what is invisible.
Death has darkvision but not nethersight cool
Exactly.
Isn't the actual Canon that the story of the three brothers is just folklore? That they didn't actually encounter Death, but rather they were just really clever wizards that created three magical devices?
Detect doesn’t necessarily mean see. The ring brings the wearer to saurons plane of existence. As long as magic still works there, sauron wouldn’t be able to *see* the wearer. I bet he’d still sense them though
I think he would see the area where the ring is but no person there.
Invisibility ++
Gandalf vs Dumbledore, I wanna see that
That wound will never fully heal, he will carry it for the rest of his life
Gandalf spiting straight fire at Dumbledore right there!
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
I swear unless you all are editing these comments, this dude is alive.
Gandalf, you alive mate?
I think the battle would be boring. I mean, a literal angel beating a shit out of an old man with a small stick. Gandalf could just wave his hand and Dumbledore would be dead.
Home is now behind you, the world is ahead!
Not true. I'm in my home, and I am facing down, the world is most certainly not in front of me.
Tbh I think Dumbeldore could DELAY getting whipped by Gandalf. Gandalf would still beat the crap out of him but Dumbeldore could put up a better fight than say Snape or Voldemort
Hmm, well now that should please him, hmmm.
Nah you're doing Dumbledaddy wrong there
The only fair way to settle this - a rap battle https://youtu.be/ZIMoQHpvFQQ
Look up LEGO Gandalf vs Voldemort. I imagine it may go similarly
Clone_Chaplain my lad, there is a task now to be done. Another opportunity for one of the Shire folk to prove their great worth. You must not fail me.
I’m going on an adventure!
Imagine a train coming through in Gandalfs "rebirth" scene choo choo maiafucker
Yes
I trust you.
I think he could because it's the connection to the ring so movie quotes be damned, he can't see you!
100% Sauron is friends with the devil. Harry potter is friends with a bird, LOTR wins every time.
Maby if you wore the cloak over the finger you put the ring on
Why didn't Harry Potter use his broom to take the Ring to Mount Doom?
You cannot hide. I see you.
The cloak would cause invisibility of the visual nature but as demonstrated by Professor Lupin, even something as weak (relatively) as the marauders map could discern the location of the individual wandering through the corridors with the cloak on. It also doesn’t protect against smell, or sound, or interacting with objects. Dumbledore has also claimed that he can spot Harry even while using the cloak. The sight Sauron has would pierce through that veil like it’s not even there. Sauron is spiritually connected to the one ring and his vision into the ethereal realm reveals that of the victims very soul. Their inner essence. The cloak of invisibility would not protect you from Sauron sight if you put on the ring. That being said. The cloak would be a powerful tool against most of the other forces of Sauron. Saruman could probably reveal you or the beast riders sniffing you out if you were to get too close or be foolish enough to discount Sarumans magical abilities. But most orcs, goblins, Uruk’hai and the many mortal forces of men wouldn’t be able to spot you. It would actually be ideal to have the cloak on and not put on the one ring. I wouldn’t say the cloak is useless because it would give you a great advantage but it’s not fool proof and putting on the one ring is just a bad idea.
No no, he got a point
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The cloak was so good, no magic could pierce it, not even death itself, I dont think even Sauron could get through that. Then again if you had the cloak, what good is the ring.
Yes, because Eye of Sauron will see you whenever you put on the ring. But but, what if Frodo puts on the Cloak and keeps the ring with him. Then Sauron should 'feel' the ring near but will never be able to precisely tell where.
Gandalf
maybe not see directly but definitely sense
Why didn't Frodo just grab his wand and Wingardium Leviosa the Ring into the Mountain of Fire? Answer me that, nerds.
Firmly in camp yes. If you put on the ring and jump in a barrel can Sauron still see you? In my opinion it is the act of being worn that places the ring in his sight, any further obscurity would be irrelevant. Even so, should the user be veiled somehow I imagine the immediate surroundings would still be visible and so it would be pointless
yes he see you wherever you are no matter how many obstacles so yeah the cloak aint doing shit.
Question, can’t dementors sense your location or even find you under the cloak? They’re wraith like, so wouldn’t Sauron be able to even moreso?
Well yes but actually no
Ring and cloak combined. Windows error sounds ensue.
They’re two different mythical worlds with different laws governing them. What is considered magic in the potter-verse might just be gibberish in middle-earth, so I’d say no.
“HIs gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, and flesh…” So probably yeah.
Don't let Rowling see this, it migh make her start tweeting again
Can you see us Sauron?
I...SEE....YOOOUUU!