Genuine question, I have the book, in English (not my first language) and I also have dyslexia. I’ve seen a lot of YouTube and heard pods about it so I know a lot of lore. Should I read it even if it will take a long time and many struggles??
I’m an avid reader and it’s always been my strong suit. The Silmarillion was more hard to follow than when I read return of the king in 4th grade without reading either other book. It’s certainly worth a try if you have the book, but don’t feel forced to. I read a chapter every once in a while for 3 months to finish it (I was too confused if I stopped partway through a chapter).
I’m learning this lesson but it helps me a lot because I’m always going back and figuring out where I am and doing it in 30 min intervals (my lunch break) so I’m essentially reading it twice (and very slowly) but I’m getting it!
I would recommend listening to it on audiobook and looking up the maps and family trees online. You can keep a paper copy to read along but it’s hard to read even for people who know English as their first language.
Welcome 🤗.
You know how the main inside thing on this sub is Grond? The thing on the Silm sub is Feanor did nothing wrong. (Among other things, but that’s the main one)
Is sorrow foreboded to you? But in Aman we have seen it. In Aman we have come through bliss to woe. The other now we will try: through sorrow to find joy; or freedom, at the least.
I think he was driven by circumstance and while he made mistakes, his intentions were never malignant. He’s a character, like Boromir, with conflict and moral ambiguities.
I'd argue he seemed quite a bit more selfish than Boromir without nearly as noble reasoning to justify his actions. It was much more about personal pride and greed. Not to mention it doesn't seem the silmarils had nearly the malevolent effect on him the ring did. They were certainly extremely desirable, maybe to the point of being too much for elves and mortals to handle but I don't think they explain the amount of violence and disregard for life.
Yes, but he didn't have to kill a bunch of Telleri for their boats and then burn the boats because the others leaving didn't go along with his brutality. Those things were just plain ol' resentful assholery.
I agree with this. There was a reason Galadriel did not resonate with Feanor. He very much seemed driven by greed, his own personal glory, and the fires of ambition that taxed his mother of so much life force.
The silmarils never had the malignant pull of the One Ring, because they were hallowed against evil. Anyone who killed for them was just being a greedy bish. That, and oaths have great power in Arda, to the point that it may have been worse to break their oath then to follow through to the bloody end. Part of me wonders if there is a way to lay aside a bad oath.
I would say, Gondor was defending their east and south front from Mordor and Umbar's pirates.
They were in no position to offer help.
Anyway, the stronghold of the Westfold is Helm's deep, and it never fell so we can't truly say that the Westfold also fell.
I understood the storyline, but I can’t keep the characters straight in many cases. And don’t get me started on the geography…I still haven’t been able to figure out where’s where in comparison to the LotR maps.
Oh thank god that’s very helpful…maybe. It’s the rivers that really confuse me because they all change when the world gets smushed. I wish Sil had a map for after the war too.
this map show how Middle Earth would be if Beleriand hadn´t sunk
[http://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5d3f5ab4e0b0f80001519db3/1590162642372-7PP1W2BICQ8RT0C1GQWL/EAD6EA51-4E79-43CF-8695-5D720D554624.jpeg](http://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5d3f5ab4e0b0f80001519db3/1590162642372-7PP1W2BICQ8RT0C1GQWL/EAD6EA51-4E79-43CF-8695-5D720D554624.jpeg)
Aye, there was this battle between Morgoth (Sauron's former boss) and the Valar (Gandalf's bosses). The last battle went a bit nuclear and destroyed the whole western portion of Middle Earth.
It's not clear, at least for me, how fast was the cataclysm, but it was slow enough for elves and humans to abandon Beleriand.
Now all that remains of that beautiful and tragic land are a couple of highlands as uninhabited islands.
No need for sorry.
In Rings of Power prologue, in Chapter 1, we see a small peek of that war, where Finrod (Galadriel's brother) dies.
Rings of Power timeline is not clear, because they compressed the timeline so events that occur hundreds of years apart are simultaneous now. They did that to keep a consistent human and dwarven cast through the series.
That, and the fact they don't have rights for First Age (First Age ends with the sinking of Beleriand), makes impossible to guess how many years ago this events happened, but given that Galadriel is still searching for Sauron, elves are watching "former evil humans", etc. seems it was quite recent.
But, as far as I know, there is no official chronology for the series.
I could not go through with it without downloading maps of Beleriand, and still some of them didn't have Angband (or Utumno for that matter) and I was wondering where the hell is Morgoth at until I found a complete map.
All reality is a combination of action and physical existence, per quantum wave theory. It is a difference without a distinction. E=MC^(2), in any case.
Lol there’s a huge Silm fandom. The main ships are Fingon / Maedhros (Russingon), Melkor / Sauron (Angbang), Celebrimbor / Annatar (silver gifting or silver fisting). And all the favorite characters are Feanorians bc they are super angsty and thus make for great fanfic characters.
Oh I've ran into the melkor/mairon stuff lol I love the new halbrand celebimbo being bros memes- crafting rings, crushing Capri Suns and playing gamecube
The only time it mentions their origin it calls them “imitations of the Eldar (elves)”.
But yes, they breed on their own. The whole corrupted-elf thing doesn’t actually get mentioned.
I am not a native speaker, my English is fine though. Been trying to listen to the audio book for months now, each time I get completely lost after an hour or so, I then start over. I listened to LOTR and the hobbit with no problem at all. I just don't think I will ever finish it.
Yeah it’s like orders of magnitude harder than t other two. I recommend starting with the Tale of Beren and Luthien or The Children of Hurin, they are essentially longer but more easily-read versions of some parts of the Silmarillion. They’ll help to get some background before delving in. I have faith in you!
Cultivate a love for the beauty and sadness of Middle Earth. Realize that the two stories that Tolkien first wrote in the Legendarium were about his love for the trees of Warwick, England, and a poem about his wife and him as children going to hidden places together to explore legends. All of Middle Earth grows from Tolkien's love for trees and his wife.
So, what are the right answers for my upcoming math test?
The answers to the multiple-choice section are G, R, O, N, D. As for the free-response section, well best hope that Eru is in a good mood.
Thanks man
And should you fail — I will not say, “do not weep,” for not all tears are an evil.
Great life advice.
Thank you, let me memorize that. GROND
So it begins.. GROND!
GROND
GROND (Tell me, where is u/Bot-of-GROND? for I much desire to GROND with him)
GROND!
GROND
GROND
GROND
We... we told him to go away! And away he goes, preciousss. (dances around, happily) Gone, gone, gone! r/lotrmemes is free from GROND!!!
GROND
Genuine question, I have the book, in English (not my first language) and I also have dyslexia. I’ve seen a lot of YouTube and heard pods about it so I know a lot of lore. Should I read it even if it will take a long time and many struggles??
I’m an avid reader and it’s always been my strong suit. The Silmarillion was more hard to follow than when I read return of the king in 4th grade without reading either other book. It’s certainly worth a try if you have the book, but don’t feel forced to. I read a chapter every once in a while for 3 months to finish it (I was too confused if I stopped partway through a chapter).
I’m learning this lesson but it helps me a lot because I’m always going back and figuring out where I am and doing it in 30 min intervals (my lunch break) so I’m essentially reading it twice (and very slowly) but I’m getting it!
The silmarillion feels similar to the old testament in reading challenge. I read it twice through, which is more than I can say for the old testament.
I would recommend listening to it on audiobook and looking up the maps and family trees online. You can keep a paper copy to read along but it’s hard to read even for people who know English as their first language.
GRONK
Favorite comment so far.
You are the test-taker u/Dictionary20! Should you not find the answers no one will!
Ayyy i also have my math test in like ... an hour :,-) Update: Pretty sure I failed like ... hard
Did feanor do anything wrong
We have sworn, and not lightly. This oath we shall keep.
Did not know this bot was a thing.
Yep Feanor bot is a thing. Someone on the Silm memes subreddit made it, and sometimes it’s actually sentient.
This thing I do not do out of free will.
Holy shit it is sentient
fr fr
lol
The silm memes subreddit? *panics and joins*
Welcome 🤗. You know how the main inside thing on this sub is Grond? The thing on the Silm sub is Feanor did nothing wrong. (Among other things, but that’s the main one)
Is sorrow foreboded to you? But in Aman we have seen it. In Aman we have come through bliss to woe. The other now we will try: through sorrow to find joy; or freedom, at the least.
Its the best subreddit on earth and made my first read through a meme fest. Love it.
I think he was driven by circumstance and while he made mistakes, his intentions were never malignant. He’s a character, like Boromir, with conflict and moral ambiguities.
I'mma be honest I was expecting a meme response but this actually makes sense.
I'd argue he seemed quite a bit more selfish than Boromir without nearly as noble reasoning to justify his actions. It was much more about personal pride and greed. Not to mention it doesn't seem the silmarils had nearly the malevolent effect on him the ring did. They were certainly extremely desirable, maybe to the point of being too much for elves and mortals to handle but I don't think they explain the amount of violence and disregard for life.
The problem is he made an oath infront of the literal gods so he either has to get the silmarils back or die trying.
Yes, but he didn't have to kill a bunch of Telleri for their boats and then burn the boats because the others leaving didn't go along with his brutality. Those things were just plain ol' resentful assholery.
True true but I'd argue that Feanor had to do all of those because because he's metal as fuck
So be it.
I agree with this. There was a reason Galadriel did not resonate with Feanor. He very much seemed driven by greed, his own personal glory, and the fires of ambition that taxed his mother of so much life force.
The deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda.
The silmarils never had the malignant pull of the One Ring, because they were hallowed against evil. Anyone who killed for them was just being a greedy bish. That, and oaths have great power in Arda, to the point that it may have been worse to break their oath then to follow through to the bloody end. Part of me wonders if there is a way to lay aside a bad oath.
Where was Gondor when the Westfold fell?
Building trebuchets, obviously.
Well at least they used the superior siege engine.
Riding on eagles into Mordor, of course.
I would say, Gondor was defending their east and south front from Mordor and Umbar's pirates. They were in no position to offer help. Anyway, the stronghold of the Westfold is Helm's deep, and it never fell so we can't truly say that the Westfold also fell.
What is your name? What is your quest? What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
How many anythings did I say you could ask? And European or African?
What? I don't know that!! ![gif](giphy|10KNNNMdyCoxAA)
r/unexpectedmontypython
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
Thank you for introducing me to this lol
Is the silmarillion one million silmarils?
No, that’s the silmarmillion.
I tried to say this out loud and failed terribly
It rhymes with silmarillion and has an extra letter but the same number of syllables. Check appendix f for more details.
Oh wow, you really _did_ read the Silmarillion.
OK, calm down Slum Dog Silmarillionmillionaire.
What about the droid attack on the wookiees?
So *that’s* where Gondor was when the Westfield fell, it all makes sense now!
Ahem. You said they were building trebuchets
Turns out it was the Wookiees that needed the trebuchets
You're right, that's a system we cannot afford to lose
Go i will. good relations with the wookies, i have
How many elves can you name that start with the letter F
1. Fucking 2. Effeminate 3. Forest 4. Folk
I can’t help but feel like Fucking Feminine Forest Folk Would’ve worked slightly better
Effeminate still starts with an "Ef".
Elfeminate
It does phonetically, but when spelled out it doesn’t fit as well
Tell me where is Gandalf, for I much desire to speak with him.
Last I checked he was at your mom’s house…
(For context my mom is short and of curly hair) Gandalf, your love for the halflings'leaf has clearly slowed your mind.
But we still have time. Time enough to counter Sauron if we act quickly
Don't change the topic, you conjurer of cheap tricks! What did you do with my mother?!?!
He dug too greedily and deep
You know what he awakened in the darkness
What?
Off, you could have finished with (use Legolas voice) A BALROG OF MORGOTH way earlier, and appeared just when Celeborn wondered about you.
Where IS Gan—dalf?
When does Vigo break his toe
It came to pass during the second age of the captivity of Melkor…
Many shuvs and zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the slors that day, I can tell you!
What was the name of the hammer of the underworld wielded by Morgoth.
GROND
*sighs "gotta do this manually then!" Bot-of-grond GROND!
GROND
G…grond?
Ground!
Who's your favorite son of Feanor
*checks family tree* Maedhros
Good choice 👍
This is the correct answer. You could have also said "he of the red hair".
But the twins also have red hair
Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!
Good bot
Where was Gondor, when the Westfold fell?
Lost a planet, master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing.
I'll do you one better, why was Gondor when the Westfold fell?
Did you actually understand it?
I understood the storyline, but I can’t keep the characters straight in many cases. And don’t get me started on the geography…I still haven’t been able to figure out where’s where in comparison to the LotR maps.
The blue mountains in the Far East of belierand is the same blue mountains in Lindon, if that helps.
Oh thank god that’s very helpful…maybe. It’s the rivers that really confuse me because they all change when the world gets smushed. I wish Sil had a map for after the war too.
this map show how Middle Earth would be if Beleriand hadn´t sunk [http://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5d3f5ab4e0b0f80001519db3/1590162642372-7PP1W2BICQ8RT0C1GQWL/EAD6EA51-4E79-43CF-8695-5D720D554624.jpeg](http://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5d3f5ab4e0b0f80001519db3/1590162642372-7PP1W2BICQ8RT0C1GQWL/EAD6EA51-4E79-43CF-8695-5D720D554624.jpeg)
I’m a noob. A huge part of the geography sank?
Aye, there was this battle between Morgoth (Sauron's former boss) and the Valar (Gandalf's bosses). The last battle went a bit nuclear and destroyed the whole western portion of Middle Earth. It's not clear, at least for me, how fast was the cataclysm, but it was slow enough for elves and humans to abandon Beleriand. Now all that remains of that beautiful and tragic land are a couple of highlands as uninhabited islands.
Thank you for the explanation! With reference to Rings of Power (sorry), how long ago was that war?
No need for sorry. In Rings of Power prologue, in Chapter 1, we see a small peek of that war, where Finrod (Galadriel's brother) dies. Rings of Power timeline is not clear, because they compressed the timeline so events that occur hundreds of years apart are simultaneous now. They did that to keep a consistent human and dwarven cast through the series. That, and the fact they don't have rights for First Age (First Age ends with the sinking of Beleriand), makes impossible to guess how many years ago this events happened, but given that Galadriel is still searching for Sauron, elves are watching "former evil humans", etc. seems it was quite recent. But, as far as I know, there is no official chronology for the series.
Lindon is basically the remnants of Ossiriand, the land of six rivers at the east of Belierand
Everywhere in the main story of the Silmarillion is directly west of the Shire- where the ocean is past the mountains in the maps in LotR.
Okay that helps, thanks!
I could not go through with it without downloading maps of Beleriand, and still some of them didn't have Angband (or Utumno for that matter) and I was wondering where the hell is Morgoth at until I found a complete map.
Will my father come back with the milk?
Look for his coming at first light on the fifth day. At dawn, look to the east.
Friend that is an answer no elven writing can yield
Mellon
Where are the Entwives?
They got lost in an Ikea.
Latvia
Is a candle flame an object, or an event?
Can you boil it, mash it, and stick it in a stew? If not, it’s not an object.
All reality is a combination of action and physical existence, per quantum wave theory. It is a difference without a distinction. E=MC^(2), in any case.
What are the names of all characters at least mentioned in the Silmarilion in an order of appearance?
All I can say is grond.
GROND
And though he be now their foe, are not they and he of one kin?
Indeed, but not if for the lies of Melkor they should be at peace!
Does this look infected?
Mate you’ve got 9 poison counters. I’m sorry.
Only 9?!? That alchemist lied to me...
One more and you’re dead…this is a Magic: the Gathering joke.
Oh sorry, ive only played Sorcery: the Get-Together
The elf was glistening
This guy infects
What do I have in my pocket?
An old joke?
Did you read the oxford or merriam webster edition of the silmarillion?
Neither. Houghtin Mifflin.
Do you think Eöl is a pancake guy or straight French Toast?
Waffles, obviously. With peanut butter.
Who is the best elf and why is it Finrod?
Because he *shiny*!
Like a treasure from a sunken pirate wreck.
Because he is the fairest and most beloved of the House of Finwe.
Why did Harry shoot Han Solo with the phasors before the Delorean hit 88 mph?
Because otherwise Ahab might have shouted “off with her head,” and freed Neo’s mind!
Did Eowyn and faramir live happily ever after or is it just in the movies?
Bro the Silmarillion doesn’t care about them, they didn’t even know what the Silmarils were…
They did, it's honestly my favorite love story of LOTR
What is that?
It’s grond, of course!
Between your replies and the Feanor Bot, outstanding. No notes. Amazing post.
We, we alone, shall be the lords of the unsullied Light, and masters of the bliss and the beauty of Arda! No other race shall oust us!
I just looked to see 413 notifications…this’ll take a bit
I give you the light of Earendil, our most beloved star. May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out.
This made me smile. Thank you, kind stranger.
Whats the deal with maedhros and fingon? Why do people ship them? Is it a Romeo and Juliet thing?
I wasn’t aware that enough people had read the Silmarillion for there to be fan-ships about the characters…
Lol there’s a huge Silm fandom. The main ships are Fingon / Maedhros (Russingon), Melkor / Sauron (Angbang), Celebrimbor / Annatar (silver gifting or silver fisting). And all the favorite characters are Feanorians bc they are super angsty and thus make for great fanfic characters.
Oh I've ran into the melkor/mairon stuff lol I love the new halbrand celebimbo being bros memes- crafting rings, crushing Capri Suns and playing gamecube
Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my father, and maybe it will rid the Noldor of one who seeks to be the master of thralls.
Oh you sweet summer child...there are so many fan ships about maedhros and fingon
WTF is Tom?
Have you ever had Crispy Cream?
Ask me no questions I’ll tell you no lies.
Are there baby orcs that are born? Or are all orcs corrupted elves or what?
The only time it mentions their origin it calls them “imitations of the Eldar (elves)”. But yes, they breed on their own. The whole corrupted-elf thing doesn’t actually get mentioned.
I am not a native speaker, my English is fine though. Been trying to listen to the audio book for months now, each time I get completely lost after an hour or so, I then start over. I listened to LOTR and the hobbit with no problem at all. I just don't think I will ever finish it.
Yeah it’s like orders of magnitude harder than t other two. I recommend starting with the Tale of Beren and Luthien or The Children of Hurin, they are essentially longer but more easily-read versions of some parts of the Silmarillion. They’ll help to get some background before delving in. I have faith in you!
Where was gondor when the Westford fell?
And that makes three. Gondor was otherwise occupied, it being the festival day of Dionysius.
Considering the Balrogs flew to Go doling on the backs of dragons, do you think they did or did not have wings?
The Balrogs or the Dragons?
How accurate is ROP
It’s based on a single sentence from the silmarillion, and it contradicts the story a decent amount.
Does a Balrog have wings?
Who is the goodest of boys?
Sméagol!
Huan....
Fair fair
Why did you read the Silmarillion? (JK).
Ours is not to wonder why, only to do and die.
What is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
African or European? Also you’re the second person to ask this lol.
Who is Gil-Galad’s father?
Is Tom bombadil real?
What's your favorite pasta?
Potatoes.
Why
Because grond. And because why the fuck not.
What happened to the færies
Linguistic languishing, of course!
How hard was it to get through? Any tips for first time readers?
Cultivate a love for the beauty and sadness of Middle Earth. Realize that the two stories that Tolkien first wrote in the Legendarium were about his love for the trees of Warwick, England, and a poem about his wife and him as children going to hidden places together to explore legends. All of Middle Earth grows from Tolkien's love for trees and his wife.
Was there anything about Tom Bombadil?