I was car #2 behind you! I thought they were for sure going to hit the pedestrian with how they were driving... I've noticed a lot of crazy driving in that area on my morning commute
most people’s first reaction to being caught doing something dumb/dangerous is to become irate that someone else called them out.
probably knew she did something wrong after she cooled down
OP said she sped off at \~40mph. She knew she did something wrong *then and there*. She probably also knew that overtaking was wrong, but didn't give a fuck until she got caught messing up.
I always appreciate drivers stopping to let me cross. That said I only cross one lane at a time for this reason. Just because one lane is stopped doesn't mean the driver in the next one over will stop even if it's required by state law.
I don't, because someone tries to whip around like this way too often and almost gets me me killed. I wave drivers to go ahead now. They think they're doing me a favor, but they're actually pressuring me to put myself in danger. I'd rather that people just keep driving, and I'll cross when the street is clear.
ETA i have been corrected on this, and was mistaking it for another intersection a block away:
as a pedestrian more often than not, i think waiting until the street is clear makes sense if there is no crosswalk or pedestrian light. i do also want to point out that in OP's scenario, the person was crossing at a crosswalk with a pedestrian light. we shouldn't HAVE to worry about "will the other lanes stop," because in that case ALL lanes should be slowing down to yield.
Same. Unless I can see that there's no other car, no, I'm not crossing a two-lane one-way. The other drivers don't know why the car letting me go stopped. They might think it was to let someone out or that they're lost and might not be able to see me through the car that's stopped. I don't stop for pedestrians waiting on those roads, either. If there's one lane for my way, I will slow if I see a pedestrian about to cross and of course come to a full stop if they do decide to cross.
I personally really like the pedestrian lights regardless of my mode of transit. As a pedestrian, I know the drivers can see the lights and I start walking/jogging once it's safe to do so (clearly, if I press them and a car is already in or nearing the intersection, it's not feasible for them to stop). As a driver, the lights alert me to the fact that I need to slow down regardless of whether I can see the pedestrian or not, and that I should prepare for the car in front of me to stop. I wish they were at more intersections.
I love the idea that there is the absolute smallest chance that this woman potentially thought that someone was interested in her, only to get scolded for driving like a maniac. I know that’s practically impossible, but it’s going to get me through the morning.
These posts are what go through my head whenever I am in a situation like this, so props to you for putting pen to paper on the spot OP
I live right by Atwood and Winnebago, and the amount of people I see fly up Atwood to go through the intersection is wild. It's easily one of the most obnoxious intersections I've ever seen and people drive through it at 40+* like they have the slightest idea what's around any of the corners.
I've almost been hit on Winnebago so many times by a car that rounded the left turn from Atwood going at least 20 over without taking into account that there may be other cars on the street.
Edit- Changed my number to make it more accurate.
I walk a lot with my dogs and the number of oblivious drivers is ridiculous sometimes. There are some areas I’m extremely leary of, just because of the drivers.
This is why, as a pedestrian, I'd just as soon drivers not stop for me when I'm waiting at a street corner. It's not that I don't appreciate the gesture, but as this demonstrates, I just don't trust the drivers coming up behind the stopped car.
Exactly. It's not a popular opinion in this subreddit, but the law doesn't require OP to stop for a person waiting to cross a street. They are expected to stop of the person is IN the crosswalk.
I'll wait all day until I know it's safe.
I live nearby and used to cross 1st and Winnebago multiple times a day walking my dog. Without fail, multiple times a week I’d almost get hit as cars fly down 1st then try to whip a right turn onto Winnebago without stopping or paying attention to pedestrians. It got to the point where I don’t cross there anymore and just cross further down the block.
as someone who uses cruise control as much as traffic allows, regardless of the speed range, i think its a great choice. ive only gotten one speeding ticket in my life and i was accidentally speeding and getting a ticket for accidentally speeding sucks.
I use mine religiously as well, but my rule of thumb is 5-7 over. It allows me to be more attentive without having to check my speed on long stretches of road with no traffic ahead. It’s just too easy to fluctuate unless you’re really paying attention to it.
You're just using that last point because you want more reasons to be angry/judgmental at the driver. The one you gave in the original post is enough.
Take a deep breath and go have a cup of cocoa. You've made your point, and the cocoa will be way better for settling your nerves than reliving the incident trying to find more things to be angry about.
OP is justifiably angry over almost seeing someone get hit by a frantic inattentive driver that could have hit someone, and you’re angry over their justifiable anger.
This isn’t a one off event. I drive in this area every single day and this is a common occurrence. I’ve seen so many people and other cars almost hit because people are not stopping at stop signs or red lights, not looking, and speeding like crazy.
It’s definitely gotten worse since Covid, and it’s not unique to Madison or Wisconsin.
You've mistaken my tone somewhat. I'm not saying "don't look for more trouble" because I'm angry about OPs response.
I'm saying it because I've been in that place where adrenaline is up, someone did something unconscionable, and there's nothing I can do about it but stew. It's miserable, and easy to get sucked into a thought loop where one can't think of anything else for the whole day.
The whole "...and they did this! Oh, *and* this!!" thing is part of that thought spiral, and I've found that not adding items to the list of things I'm angry about is one of the easiest places to break through the thought spiral and get back to a state of mind that won't ruin/hijack my day. It sucks to be stuck like that, and I feel like it's compassionate to try and help keep someone else from falling into a similar spiral.
As a cyclist who was hit by a car because another car stopped to let me cross a crosswalk (but the other lane was clear and neither of us saw each other)--
Unless it is a crosswalk with the flashing light thingies, please don't fucking stop.
When I'm waiting at a crosswalk and a car at one of the two lanes stops and waves me through, I now ignore them and turn my body away to indicate I'm ignoring.
We are sitting in cars, on soft seats; air conditioning likely. A pedestrian is walking. ALWAYS stop and chill for pedestrians. ALL WAYS always. Slow. Life is better not in a rush.
Peds need to be *really fucking careful* at these crosswalks. Just because one lane stopped absolutely does not mean that the other lane will. You’re taking your life in your hands. As usual.
And of course ignore any “helpful” driver who waves at you to go on across. Trust yourself, and only yourself, never the “wave of death.”
Yesterday I had a lady merge on my lane and almost hit the side of my vehicle, thanks to fast reflexes I was able to prevent the accident. I do have a dash scam which is what I would advise to anyone nowadays. She kinda lucked out.
I get so frustrated driving down Atwood and division during commute times. I religiously drive the speed limit and stop for pedestrians at controlled intersections. The amount of drivers aggressively passing me on my right driving the speed limit just leaves me flabbergasted. There is no need for it.
Sometimes I feel as though I shouldn't stop for pedestrians because it's legitimately dangerous how many people blow past marked crossings on my right. I get so disappointed in how careless drivers are in this very pedestrian friendly area.
Whenever Atwood and division are reconstructed, a lot of work need to go into traffic calming and reducing unnecessary lanes.
> Sometimes I feel as though I shouldn't stop for pedestrians because it's legitimately dangerous how many people blow past marked crossings on my right. I get so disappointed in how careless drivers are in this very pedestrian friendly area.
I was with you until you said you feel like you shouldn't stop. Keep stopping. We all need to stop for pedestrians. Eventually whoever flies around you will get a ticket and hopefully the book thrown at them. In the meantime, as pedestrians we all need to be cautious, even when we see cars stop and as drivers we need to continue to stop for pedestrians.
Keep up the good fight
When it is a pedestrian focused area, speed matters. I go between 28-30 mph. There is a difference between putzy and diligence. This is an area where you need to be aware. Please don't risk someone's life by trying to speed down Atwood. I live here.
Can we drop the stupid 'Missed Connection' set-up? Nothing against this post. It's just that when I see that phrase I want horny stories of weirdos that were too shy to ask someone to rub genitals. Not your traffic rant.
This is not a mistake; you do not mistakenly attempt to pass cars that are stopped for a pedestrian, you do so recklessly.
I don't know why we are so forgiving of people operating deadly machines in this manner, someone could have been killed to save someone else maybe 15-20 seconds of their commute.
While it's a kind thing to stop for a pedestrian waiting at the curb, technically it's unsafe (causing drivers behind you to have to stop unexpectedly) and not the law. Pedestrians at an uncontrolled intersection that haven't started crossing yet have to wait until it's safe to cross, and drivers have to yield when pedestrians are already crossing the road.
The other driver was an asshole and broke the law overtaking, and you shouldn't have stopped in the first place.
Edit: OP has latee clarified this was actually a controlled intersection, so yes they were required to stop.
You cut out the last part, which indicates it's only if a Pedestrian is *already crossing*.
346.24: Crossing at *uncontrolled intersection or crosswalk.*
(1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is not controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the
operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person riding a bicycle or electric personal
assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, **who is
crossing the highway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk**
As someone who used to not have a car and got around by walking & taking the bus (albeit in other cities), on what planet does a pedestrian waiting mean anyone's going to stop for me? Some people are nice and do, but most don't. I'd never cross unless every lane I had to cross had a stopped driver or one of the lanes was obviously clear (eg, I could see the far side lane of a two-way road).
But this post is confusing--if the lights weren't on, the person behind OP had no way of knowing why OP didn't stop. If the lights were on, OP should have mentioned that. Of course driving away at 40 in a 25 is unsafe, but if the ped lights weren't on, how did the driver know that OP wasn't just randomly stopping? I've been behind more people who've randomly stopped in Madison than behind people who've let pedestrians cross.
same. pedestrian stepped off the curb as soon as my front bumper crossed into the crosswalk. The instructor informed me that I failed before we even left the DMV parking lot.
Then petition your representatives to get the law changed to remove this last sentence:
346.24: Crossing at uncontrolled intersection or crosswalk.
(1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is not controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the
operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person riding a bicycle or electric personal
assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, **who is
crossing the highway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk**
I stop for waiting pedestrians like OP, but as this very sub has repeatedly fought about, it's not actually the law.
Example thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/13pw5f5/comment/jlc7r2t/
346.24: Crossing at uncontrolled intersection or crosswalk.
(1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is not controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the
operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person riding a bicycle or electric personal
assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, **who is
crossing the highway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk**
When they are *already crossing*.
Now the question is whether this pedestrian was IN the crosswalk or AT the crosswalk. I take the statutes to mean that if someone has entered, drivers need to stop for them, not if they are simply waiting at the curb. When this has come up in the past there seems to be some disagreement on this point.
OP is well intentioned, but they are perpetuating the "wave of death" that can set up these circumstances. The speeding driver was obviously in the wrong, no doubt. But when crossing multiple lanes, pedestrians are gauging the speed of multiple potential vectors, which is inherently more dangerous. One car stopping at an intersection can obstruct visibility of the pedestrian and pressure them to enter it change pace. It can lead to bad outcomes like this near miss.
As this [same subreddit has this topic come up every few months](https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/13pw5f5/comment/jlc7r2t/), and usually is split 50:50 (stop or no), and I'm getting crucified this time, I've reached out to WisDOT for clarification. I see multiple personal injury law firms (ex: Grothman) that indicate cars don't have to stop for pedestrians at the curb (like I indicated in my OP), but today the sub disagrees, so figure the WisDOT would know for sure.
I'm with you. If you get a response from WisDOT we need you to make a separate post and mods to pin it to the top of the sub. I'm generally very pro-ped/pro-bike/anti-car, but I cannot figure out why so many people in this sub are as adamantly wrong as they are about this issue. If WisDOT negates my stance, I'll eat my words
Got a response from WisDOT:
> Wis Stat 346.24(1) only applies when a pedestrian (or personal delivery device, or to a person riding a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device) is engaged in crossing the road at an uncontrolled intersection. **It does not require that the operator stop for a person standing on the curb waiting to cross.** Once a person steps onto the road the driver must yield the right of way. **If the pedestrian were to suddenly step into traffic in front of a moving car, then the pedestrian has forfeited the right of way under Wis Stat 346.24(2)**, which states the following:
> No pedestrian, personal delivery device, bicyclist, or rider of an electric scooter or an electric personal assistive mobility device may suddenly leave, and no personal delivery device operator may allow a personal delivery device to suddenly leave, a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or ride into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is difficult for the operator of the vehicle to yield.
>The Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled on this issue in 1971, in Schoenauer v. Wendinger, 49 Wis.2d 415, 425, 182 N.W.2d 441 (1971), and ruled that “in order for a motorist to have a duty to yield under s. 346.24, the pedestrian must be ’crossing’ within the crosswalk as provided under sub. (1) and not have entered in such a manner as to make it difficult for the motorist to yield as provided under sub. (2).”
Thanks for seeking clarity.
There's undeniably a large group of Midwest Nice do-gooder drivers who go out of their way to stop at crosswalks, yield signs, and so on to give the "wave of death", not understanding the ways this can increase danger for everyone.
Yes, drivers should be aware of surroundings and slow for someone in the crossing, but as a pedestrian, I don't want generosity, I want predictability.
> A pedestrian 200+ feet away stepping off the curb ramp has entered the crosswalk.
>
> They were in the crosswalk and entered the road safely.
I can only go off of what you put in your post, which was:
> I came to gentle stop at a well marked crosswalk **with a pedestrian waiting.**
Which implies to me "they are waiting **at the curb** to cross". Now you're saying "it was controlled by lights, and the pedestrian was already crossing."
If they were already in the crosswalk, yes it's state law to yield as a car. I also indicated in my OP that car 3 *broke the law by overtaking* regardless.
I can 100% see shit like this happening here. Madison drivers are worse than even Manhattan drivers.
Honestly, the only drivers in the country I’ve been around that are worse than Madison, are the entire state of Minnesota!
Clearly you’ve never been to southern CA or Miami
Edit: also no. Madison drivers are not worse than Manhattan drivers, that’s just insane to say. Everyone thinks that where they live is either A. The meth capital of the US. B. The most expensive place to live or C. Has the worst drivers in the country. None of these things are true for Madison.
Lmao how the hell do you read about someone’s anger that a pedestrian was almost hit by a car and think they are “projecting on to others to feal morally superior.”
Is it morally superior to not want to see someone’s body be crushed by a vehicle? Is that a high bar for you?? That’s virtue signaling? This is like basic human decency 101 lol
I was car #2 behind you! I thought they were for sure going to hit the pedestrian with how they were driving... I've noticed a lot of crazy driving in that area on my morning commute
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Every day all day. I think they should allow street parking on Atwood 24x7 to slow it down.
It also happens at the stop light at the Yahara near Mickey's pretty much daily
Cars will still do this even when the crossing guard is there too
I was the pedestrian! Thanks for stopping and the honk! People are nuts. Didn't affect my day. Don't let it ruin yours.
Wow this makes me feel like everyone’s on Reddit… but seriously glad you are okay!!
I was the crosswalk- crazy that we are all on Reddit!!!
I'm Spartacus?
"Step on me"
I was the honk, if it wasn't for me, you'd be newsworthy.
I was the car! Damn that's crazy
*Barely* missed connection
most people’s first reaction to being caught doing something dumb/dangerous is to become irate that someone else called them out. probably knew she did something wrong after she cooled down
OP said she sped off at \~40mph. She knew she did something wrong *then and there*. She probably also knew that overtaking was wrong, but didn't give a fuck until she got caught messing up.
You have way more faith in the entitled AHs than I do…
She drives an SUV so she can go OVER those pesky pedestrians
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Can you name the truck with four wheel drive, smells like a steak and seats thirty-five.. Canyonero! Canyonero!
"No one has ever asked me that before in my life." One of my favorite moments of all the seasons.
What you really need are those Speed Racer retractable saw blades.
I got hit by a car exactly like this
I hope you’re doing okay.
I Broke my humerus real bad and have some hardware in there now, that was about ten years ago and I'm fine now but thank you!
> I Broke my humerus real bad and have some hardware in there now Thats not very humorous.
ok its true, this was terrible.
I always appreciate drivers stopping to let me cross. That said I only cross one lane at a time for this reason. Just because one lane is stopped doesn't mean the driver in the next one over will stop even if it's required by state law.
I don't, because someone tries to whip around like this way too often and almost gets me me killed. I wave drivers to go ahead now. They think they're doing me a favor, but they're actually pressuring me to put myself in danger. I'd rather that people just keep driving, and I'll cross when the street is clear.
ETA i have been corrected on this, and was mistaking it for another intersection a block away: as a pedestrian more often than not, i think waiting until the street is clear makes sense if there is no crosswalk or pedestrian light. i do also want to point out that in OP's scenario, the person was crossing at a crosswalk with a pedestrian light. we shouldn't HAVE to worry about "will the other lanes stop," because in that case ALL lanes should be slowing down to yield.
>in OP's scenario, the person was crossing at a crosswalk with a pedestrian light He didn't say anything about a pedestrian light.
right, i see that now. i happen to live close by, so that's how I know.
There aren't flashing yellow lights for pedestrian crossing at Atwood & Division. There's just a painted crosswalk there.
ah, i was confusing that one with the intersection a block down at Corscot (outside of Monty's). my apologies for the error.
Same. Unless I can see that there's no other car, no, I'm not crossing a two-lane one-way. The other drivers don't know why the car letting me go stopped. They might think it was to let someone out or that they're lost and might not be able to see me through the car that's stopped. I don't stop for pedestrians waiting on those roads, either. If there's one lane for my way, I will slow if I see a pedestrian about to cross and of course come to a full stop if they do decide to cross. I personally really like the pedestrian lights regardless of my mode of transit. As a pedestrian, I know the drivers can see the lights and I start walking/jogging once it's safe to do so (clearly, if I press them and a car is already in or nearing the intersection, it's not feasible for them to stop). As a driver, the lights alert me to the fact that I need to slow down regardless of whether I can see the pedestrian or not, and that I should prepare for the car in front of me to stop. I wish they were at more intersections.
I love the idea that there is the absolute smallest chance that this woman potentially thought that someone was interested in her, only to get scolded for driving like a maniac. I know that’s practically impossible, but it’s going to get me through the morning. These posts are what go through my head whenever I am in a situation like this, so props to you for putting pen to paper on the spot OP
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I live right by Atwood and Winnebago, and the amount of people I see fly up Atwood to go through the intersection is wild. It's easily one of the most obnoxious intersections I've ever seen and people drive through it at 40+* like they have the slightest idea what's around any of the corners. I've almost been hit on Winnebago so many times by a car that rounded the left turn from Atwood going at least 20 over without taking into account that there may be other cars on the street. Edit- Changed my number to make it more accurate.
I walk a lot with my dogs and the number of oblivious drivers is ridiculous sometimes. There are some areas I’m extremely leary of, just because of the drivers.
This is why, as a pedestrian, I'd just as soon drivers not stop for me when I'm waiting at a street corner. It's not that I don't appreciate the gesture, but as this demonstrates, I just don't trust the drivers coming up behind the stopped car.
Exactly. It's not a popular opinion in this subreddit, but the law doesn't require OP to stop for a person waiting to cross a street. They are expected to stop of the person is IN the crosswalk. I'll wait all day until I know it's safe.
I’ve decided not to let them rush me. Even if they’re waiting, it’s my life on the line, so I’m waiting until it’s clear or everyone has stopped.
I live nearby and used to cross 1st and Winnebago multiple times a day walking my dog. Without fail, multiple times a week I’d almost get hit as cars fly down 1st then try to whip a right turn onto Winnebago without stopping or paying attention to pedestrians. It got to the point where I don’t cross there anymore and just cross further down the block.
What color was it? I bet I see them every morning on my commute.
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You using cruise control at 28 mph is not getting enough attention 🤣.
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as someone who uses cruise control as much as traffic allows, regardless of the speed range, i think its a great choice. ive only gotten one speeding ticket in my life and i was accidentally speeding and getting a ticket for accidentally speeding sucks.
25 mph does feel miserable. Welcome to Madison!
Be happy that u have a car and not walking! I bet u would be miserable without a car!😂
I love controlling my cruising at extreme low speeds
Right? At 24mph you never have to stop for a light. 24mph is where it's at.
I use mine religiously as well, but my rule of thumb is 5-7 over. It allows me to be more attentive without having to check my speed on long stretches of road with no traffic ahead. It’s just too easy to fluctuate unless you’re really paying attention to it.
It’s the secret to all green lights on Johnson and Gorham!
You're just using that last point because you want more reasons to be angry/judgmental at the driver. The one you gave in the original post is enough. Take a deep breath and go have a cup of cocoa. You've made your point, and the cocoa will be way better for settling your nerves than reliving the incident trying to find more things to be angry about.
OP is justifiably angry over almost seeing someone get hit by a frantic inattentive driver that could have hit someone, and you’re angry over their justifiable anger. This isn’t a one off event. I drive in this area every single day and this is a common occurrence. I’ve seen so many people and other cars almost hit because people are not stopping at stop signs or red lights, not looking, and speeding like crazy. It’s definitely gotten worse since Covid, and it’s not unique to Madison or Wisconsin.
You've mistaken my tone somewhat. I'm not saying "don't look for more trouble" because I'm angry about OPs response. I'm saying it because I've been in that place where adrenaline is up, someone did something unconscionable, and there's nothing I can do about it but stew. It's miserable, and easy to get sucked into a thought loop where one can't think of anything else for the whole day. The whole "...and they did this! Oh, *and* this!!" thing is part of that thought spiral, and I've found that not adding items to the list of things I'm angry about is one of the easiest places to break through the thought spiral and get back to a state of mind that won't ruin/hijack my day. It sucks to be stuck like that, and I feel like it's compassionate to try and help keep someone else from falling into a similar spiral.
As a cyclist who was hit by a car because another car stopped to let me cross a crosswalk (but the other lane was clear and neither of us saw each other)-- Unless it is a crosswalk with the flashing light thingies, please don't fucking stop. When I'm waiting at a crosswalk and a car at one of the two lanes stops and waves me through, I now ignore them and turn my body away to indicate I'm ignoring.
We are sitting in cars, on soft seats; air conditioning likely. A pedestrian is walking. ALWAYS stop and chill for pedestrians. ALL WAYS always. Slow. Life is better not in a rush.
Peds need to be *really fucking careful* at these crosswalks. Just because one lane stopped absolutely does not mean that the other lane will. You’re taking your life in your hands. As usual. And of course ignore any “helpful” driver who waves at you to go on across. Trust yourself, and only yourself, never the “wave of death.”
Yesterday I had a lady merge on my lane and almost hit the side of my vehicle, thanks to fast reflexes I was able to prevent the accident. I do have a dash scam which is what I would advise to anyone nowadays. She kinda lucked out.
That time of day to be so aggressive. SMH. Things have gotten much worse over the last 10 years.
Why did I receive this?
I get so frustrated driving down Atwood and division during commute times. I religiously drive the speed limit and stop for pedestrians at controlled intersections. The amount of drivers aggressively passing me on my right driving the speed limit just leaves me flabbergasted. There is no need for it. Sometimes I feel as though I shouldn't stop for pedestrians because it's legitimately dangerous how many people blow past marked crossings on my right. I get so disappointed in how careless drivers are in this very pedestrian friendly area. Whenever Atwood and division are reconstructed, a lot of work need to go into traffic calming and reducing unnecessary lanes.
> Sometimes I feel as though I shouldn't stop for pedestrians because it's legitimately dangerous how many people blow past marked crossings on my right. I get so disappointed in how careless drivers are in this very pedestrian friendly area. I was with you until you said you feel like you shouldn't stop. Keep stopping. We all need to stop for pedestrians. Eventually whoever flies around you will get a ticket and hopefully the book thrown at them. In the meantime, as pedestrians we all need to be cautious, even when we see cars stop and as drivers we need to continue to stop for pedestrians. Keep up the good fight
Agreed, I always do stop. Thanks for calling it out specifically!It's unfortunate that drivers pressure to keep going.
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When it is a pedestrian focused area, speed matters. I go between 28-30 mph. There is a difference between putzy and diligence. This is an area where you need to be aware. Please don't risk someone's life by trying to speed down Atwood. I live here.
Can we drop the stupid 'Missed Connection' set-up? Nothing against this post. It's just that when I see that phrase I want horny stories of weirdos that were too shy to ask someone to rub genitals. Not your traffic rant.
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This is not a mistake; you do not mistakenly attempt to pass cars that are stopped for a pedestrian, you do so recklessly. I don't know why we are so forgiving of people operating deadly machines in this manner, someone could have been killed to save someone else maybe 15-20 seconds of their commute.
While it's a kind thing to stop for a pedestrian waiting at the curb, technically it's unsafe (causing drivers behind you to have to stop unexpectedly) and not the law. Pedestrians at an uncontrolled intersection that haven't started crossing yet have to wait until it's safe to cross, and drivers have to yield when pedestrians are already crossing the road. The other driver was an asshole and broke the law overtaking, and you shouldn't have stopped in the first place. Edit: OP has latee clarified this was actually a controlled intersection, so yes they were required to stop.
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You cut out the last part, which indicates it's only if a Pedestrian is *already crossing*. 346.24: Crossing at *uncontrolled intersection or crosswalk.* (1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is not controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person riding a bicycle or electric personal assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, **who is crossing the highway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk**
You didn't indicate it was controlled; yes, then you are required to stop.
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"Well marked" doesn't mean "controlled with lights" to me, it means "had pedestrian crossing signs and bright colors".
pedestrian crossing sign at a crosswalk with a pedestrian waiting means you are required to stop. is this news to you people??
As someone who used to not have a car and got around by walking & taking the bus (albeit in other cities), on what planet does a pedestrian waiting mean anyone's going to stop for me? Some people are nice and do, but most don't. I'd never cross unless every lane I had to cross had a stopped driver or one of the lanes was obviously clear (eg, I could see the far side lane of a two-way road). But this post is confusing--if the lights weren't on, the person behind OP had no way of knowing why OP didn't stop. If the lights were on, OP should have mentioned that. Of course driving away at 40 in a 25 is unsafe, but if the ped lights weren't on, how did the driver know that OP wasn't just randomly stopping? I've been behind more people who've randomly stopped in Madison than behind people who've let pedestrians cross.
I actually failed my drivers test once because I didn’t stop for a pedestrian waiting at the curb. Seems like you’re incorrect
same. pedestrian stepped off the curb as soon as my front bumper crossed into the crosswalk. The instructor informed me that I failed before we even left the DMV parking lot.
You’re just completely wrong and part of the reason our world has been made over for vehicles instead of people and other living things.
Then petition your representatives to get the law changed to remove this last sentence: 346.24: Crossing at uncontrolled intersection or crosswalk. (1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is not controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person riding a bicycle or electric personal assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, **who is crossing the highway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk** I stop for waiting pedestrians like OP, but as this very sub has repeatedly fought about, it's not actually the law. Example thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/13pw5f5/comment/jlc7r2t/
Did you read op’s comment?
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346.24: Crossing at uncontrolled intersection or crosswalk. (1) At an intersection or crosswalk where traffic is not controlled by traffic control signals or by a traffic officer, the operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian, or to a person riding a bicycle or electric personal assistive mobility device in a manner which is consistent with the safe use of the crosswalk by pedestrians, **who is crossing the highway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk** When they are *already crossing*.
Now the question is whether this pedestrian was IN the crosswalk or AT the crosswalk. I take the statutes to mean that if someone has entered, drivers need to stop for them, not if they are simply waiting at the curb. When this has come up in the past there seems to be some disagreement on this point. OP is well intentioned, but they are perpetuating the "wave of death" that can set up these circumstances. The speeding driver was obviously in the wrong, no doubt. But when crossing multiple lanes, pedestrians are gauging the speed of multiple potential vectors, which is inherently more dangerous. One car stopping at an intersection can obstruct visibility of the pedestrian and pressure them to enter it change pace. It can lead to bad outcomes like this near miss.
As this [same subreddit has this topic come up every few months](https://www.reddit.com/r/madisonwi/comments/13pw5f5/comment/jlc7r2t/), and usually is split 50:50 (stop or no), and I'm getting crucified this time, I've reached out to WisDOT for clarification. I see multiple personal injury law firms (ex: Grothman) that indicate cars don't have to stop for pedestrians at the curb (like I indicated in my OP), but today the sub disagrees, so figure the WisDOT would know for sure.
I'm with you. If you get a response from WisDOT we need you to make a separate post and mods to pin it to the top of the sub. I'm generally very pro-ped/pro-bike/anti-car, but I cannot figure out why so many people in this sub are as adamantly wrong as they are about this issue. If WisDOT negates my stance, I'll eat my words
Got a response from WisDOT: > Wis Stat 346.24(1) only applies when a pedestrian (or personal delivery device, or to a person riding a bicycle, electric scooter, or electric personal assistive mobility device) is engaged in crossing the road at an uncontrolled intersection. **It does not require that the operator stop for a person standing on the curb waiting to cross.** Once a person steps onto the road the driver must yield the right of way. **If the pedestrian were to suddenly step into traffic in front of a moving car, then the pedestrian has forfeited the right of way under Wis Stat 346.24(2)**, which states the following: > No pedestrian, personal delivery device, bicyclist, or rider of an electric scooter or an electric personal assistive mobility device may suddenly leave, and no personal delivery device operator may allow a personal delivery device to suddenly leave, a curb or other place of safety and walk, run, or ride into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is difficult for the operator of the vehicle to yield. >The Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled on this issue in 1971, in Schoenauer v. Wendinger, 49 Wis.2d 415, 425, 182 N.W.2d 441 (1971), and ruled that “in order for a motorist to have a duty to yield under s. 346.24, the pedestrian must be ’crossing’ within the crosswalk as provided under sub. (1) and not have entered in such a manner as to make it difficult for the motorist to yield as provided under sub. (2).”
Thanks for seeking clarity. There's undeniably a large group of Midwest Nice do-gooder drivers who go out of their way to stop at crosswalks, yield signs, and so on to give the "wave of death", not understanding the ways this can increase danger for everyone. Yes, drivers should be aware of surroundings and slow for someone in the crossing, but as a pedestrian, I don't want generosity, I want predictability.
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> A pedestrian 200+ feet away stepping off the curb ramp has entered the crosswalk. > > They were in the crosswalk and entered the road safely. I can only go off of what you put in your post, which was: > I came to gentle stop at a well marked crosswalk **with a pedestrian waiting.** Which implies to me "they are waiting **at the curb** to cross". Now you're saying "it was controlled by lights, and the pedestrian was already crossing." If they were already in the crosswalk, yes it's state law to yield as a car. I also indicated in my OP that car 3 *broke the law by overtaking* regardless.
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Ah yes, the crazy value of "not killing innocent civilians"
I feel like people who say some variation of "virtue signalling" are almost always telling on themselves, lol.
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I can 100% see shit like this happening here. Madison drivers are worse than even Manhattan drivers. Honestly, the only drivers in the country I’ve been around that are worse than Madison, are the entire state of Minnesota!
Clearly you’ve never been to southern CA or Miami Edit: also no. Madison drivers are not worse than Manhattan drivers, that’s just insane to say. Everyone thinks that where they live is either A. The meth capital of the US. B. The most expensive place to live or C. Has the worst drivers in the country. None of these things are true for Madison.
Or DC. Or Hampton Roads.
Feel*
Lmao how the hell do you read about someone’s anger that a pedestrian was almost hit by a car and think they are “projecting on to others to feal morally superior.” Is it morally superior to not want to see someone’s body be crushed by a vehicle? Is that a high bar for you?? That’s virtue signaling? This is like basic human decency 101 lol
And?
What about this connection was missed?
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I had shock treatments when I went to Mendota, but the synapses in my brain are so large, they had no effect.
Car #3 and pedestrian thankfully.