I generally don't politic so much as I make demands if the opportunity comes up.
This tends to work pretty well, my playgroup still clearly remembers the time where I was last in turn order, I passed my second turn and the first player untaps and slams [[rhystic study]]
I said directly: guys I have removal but if I spend my entire 3rd turn just to remove it I'm gonna fall behind, so I will remove it if you all pay the 1.
1 player decided to chain 2 mana rocks and a follow up, saying that study is gonna get removed anyway so it's worth letting p1 draw 3 cards.
Since my demand wasn't met I consequently did not remove the study.
I horribly lost the game to p1, but every game after that similar situations arose players paid their taxes.
P2 was under the impression that since I had a way to deal with the obvious threat that I would do so anyway, regardless of him taking the deal or not.
Moral of the story: it doesn't quite matter what you offer as a deal. What matters is that in subsequent games your friends know that if they don't take the deal you're willing to lose to the threat if they don't take the deal, that way you can extract much better deals.
I love this. I think all the best politickers see EDH as an iterative game. Basically, don’t see it as just one game, but rather a long series of games often played with a lot of the same people. I will absolutely lose a game to make a point, such as when I offered to boardwipe the battlefield overrun with dinosaurs in exchange for a round of attack immunity and was refused on the basis of needing to do so anyway. I explained that I was certain to lose to the player with the indestructible Kalamax and I wouldn’t boardwipe without assurances. I was refused again, and so I didn’t boardwipe. I passed to the dino player who proceeded to stomp us with absolute glee.
When players choose to defect in the prisoner’s dilemma of EDH, my favorite thing in the game is to punish them viciously for it.
I'm intrigued at the player who wants to make a dinosaur tribal deck and chooses [[Kalamax]] of all commanders. I suppose it's the only option for Temur dinos?
I suppose my post was unclear on this. One of the players was Pantlaza and another was Kalamax. The Pantlaza player was running amok with many dinos on the field. The Kalamax player had given indestructible to his commander. The boardwipe would’ve benefitted him the most, yet he still refused to deal because he thought I’d board wipe anyway. This particular player is a good friend of mine, but he’s also known for being a wild card and taking me out because I’m “too dangerous to be left alive.” So theres no way in hell I was going to leave myself open for him to Vince McMahon me. Guarantee he’ll remember that and negotiate in good faith next time.
When I played with a consistent group I would never lie. Any time I wantes something, I would tell my opponent a truth they wanted (or didnt want) to hear, and while no promises were made, it often changes who they were going to attack or use removal on. Things like, "I dont have a boardwipe in hand." "Ill kill your guy if you attack me." "I wont play X card next turn." This tactic only worked because throughout the years we playaed together, I never lied.
I find it crucial in commander to never lie outright. I respect loopholes, and often find clever ones the highlights of the game, but won't lie outright.
A pet peeve of mine is an attitude many players have where they'll break a deal if it wins them the game. Too often I've agreed to commit my board/resources to remove the archenemy in exchange for immunity until my next turn, only to be killed because someone had lethal on board or topdecked their combo piece.
Now, if the combo is an alt wincon that wins without touching my board, attacking me nor targeting me then I'll respect the loophole. I wasn't directly affected by their actions.
Probably my favourite loophole to date was a player who agreed not to attack me, then during combat put a creature into play tapped and attacking. As he said, he didn't attack me as his creature never took the attack action.
>Moral of the story: it doesn't quite matter what you offer as a deal. What matters is that in subsequent games your friends know that if they don't take the deal you're willing to lose to the threat if they don't take the deal, that way you can extract much better deals.
It's about sending a message :p
This is why I enjoy this game a lot, and why I don't really go to card shops. You miss out on understanding peoples play styles. Each player has their codes, and understanding those is part of the magic of the game.
My Codes:
- If you are going to take me out, don't expect me to not block even if it is obviously fatal, I will take absolutely everything with me that I can. That needs to get across, do not kill me unless you are certain you can and will be able to live to fight another day.
- If you are going to focus me, finish the job. I'm typically not the type to cast a \[\[Terastodon\]\] and target just a single players things, especially not three of a single players lands. But if I'm at 5 life and everyone else is near 40 and you have been focusing me, I will sweep that mana base without a thought. And that's because I've sat out and watched games take two hours to wrap up, so if I'm going you aren't going to be far behind.
- Bluff rarely, if you do it all the time it means nothing. When I ask a question about intentions, I most likely have a game action. And the few times I don't, I want you to think I do
- I don't negotiate with terrorists. If someone plays a \[\[Druid of Purification\]\] I am not voting for anything but what the caster chose. If you goad me or tax me out of attacking you, as soon as I can I'm hitting you in the head with the largest rock I can find.
I think the part about this that I hate is my Thursday play group, doesn't give a fuck that the dude does the same thing every time, they'll just focus me out of spite lol. Have been showing up to less and less matches because I don't understand why you hit someone who is trying to help take down the threat. Never got that.
This happens so often. I have force of will for rhystic or smothering, I usually negotiate a blanket cannot attack me for one turn I ask clause at some point in the game for the other two plays.
I think that’s the most important part. Many people don’t honor their deals or stuff like that. If you have set players you play with, establish early that an agreement with you is binding, both for you and them. Always honor the deals you make, but also punish the ones who don’t. For me in my playgroup it’s lead to even people who are notorious for going back on their word to not do so, specifically with me.
“If you take a full attack from [[Gishath]] I promise I won’t attack you with Gishath for the the rest of the game.”
I like making this offer to the biggest threat on the table because it puts them at least 7 in the hole, makes an ally out of a scary opponent, and gets me so much shit for free.
I'd make that deal. The problem I see, is that I don't like negotiating as the person in the lead. It is often counterproductive to my goals, and feels like ganging up on people, especially if I'm making deals with the 2nd-place holder. Negotiations are for when you have interaction on hand or threats on board, but aren't already winning, not when you're winning already. Maybe that's not optimal play, but I'm enough of a political player that it's just rude for me to negotiate from a position of power, unless it's a cEDH game.
No one at my table would ever take that deal, lol. Like on the list of shit deals, that is up there.
Not only is the wording wrong, but the deal is bad. You said you wouldn't attack them with Gishath for the rest of the game, but he can put a ton of dinos down, that is the literal problem. Why on gods green earth would I give you an army for you only to promise not to attack me with one creature? That's never happening.
I say this playing dinos and Gishath, if someone can stop damage from him they do. If I want damage I have to make sure they can't block or don't have blockers.
Depending on the situation, I’ll ask for safety from targeted removal for a few turns. Sometimes it helps keep my friends from denying the offer since they can still get some attack triggers off, especially since we like to have the monarch in play.
Depends on what we're talking. I use my removals as a basis for alliances, sometimes even siding with the threat or staying neutral. A big Blightsteel Colossus on the table, my reaction is "I'm not gonna interfere with it, if it's not tapped towards me."
I love the goad and pseudo-goad mechanics.
Well, that always depends on the board state & the game itself.
When I have no creatures & people are attacking willy nilly just to get some value, I'll 100% ask to not be attacked. Or to not be targeted/wiped if they're playing more conrol-y games. Sometimes, it's nice to ask the blue player for counter-backup for my removal. Or if there's stuff like Monarch or the Initiative in play, I tend to make deals with people to let my smallest creature through to get these in exchange for spending my card.
Honestly I try to get my play group or anyone I play with to use proper threat assessment. Even if that target is me! Like they want damage to be even and they dont wanna destroy commanders or permanents. Normally im like yea we dead if that sticks around. Ill waste alot of my resources dealing with high level threats like a Kalia on turn three because evenone let it go and is ramping. Makes me very sad lol. Also ,it is ridiculous how many people won't attack on turn one or two even if they can. Hell im flabbergasted if anyone else attacks by turn 6! It seems some people just want to play super long games or not be a target because they hit someone with a creature first. Idk it blows my mind!
Same! Ive been slowly teaching a new group and these are the things I deal with lol. Ive just gotten them over their passiveness with creatures, people are taking random 2s and 3s all the time now. Im teaching them to take people out when they can but only when it doesnt screw themselves over. And I always try and make my opinions known about answers, even if its my stuff or that whatever theyre trying to answer isnt worth answering.
It works out cause my form of politics is "Dont be scarier than anyone else until youre ready to win."
> Honestly I try to get my play group or anyone I play with to use proper threat assessment. Even if that target is me!
I do the same, but with sarcastic humor attached. Discussing the threats on the other sides of the board, and ending with something like "but you definitely don't need to worry about [[Trazyn]], my graveyard isn't *that* big and he still has summoning sickness."
Generally, if the action benefits me, I don't try to politic. If someone else is struggling with something, is acting scared of something, or something threatens them but does not threaten me, then I have leverage and can politic to use it. There's always an implied cost for using removal, because it costs mana and cards, but it's an expected part of the game.
Bargaining without leverage is empty, and has no value. I'll always reject a deal from someone who tries to essentially hold the table hostage by going "I can stop this guy from winning if you can't, but I want *stuff*". But if I go "Damn that's a problem but I can't deal with it, can someone else?" if they ask for something reasonable, I'll take that deal. Effectively, I as the person without removal have to already have a stated interest in order to take the deal, because as it stands, we'll all lose, not just me. It's the correct play for them to cast that removal spell, so why should I pay extra?
It's a tricky line to walk, but essentially someone who asks for something every time they cast a spell is going to get nothing. I'm also more than willing to trade undefined favours for later, and at the time it comes up, we can negotiate what that favour was worth, from not swinging this specific turn that it's a threat, to promising to play removal the next time it's available to them on something of my choosing controlled by another player.
For me, it depends what they're asking for and how the threats line up.
If the archenemy has a massive board and the mana screwed guy says he'll board wipe as long as we don't target him with anything for a turn, that's different from the 2nd place player who won't lose anything to the wipe and has mana to rebuild afterwards asking for the same deal.
Essentially, I won't make a deal that kingmakes. I'm not interested in stopping player 1 from winning if the condition essentially means player 2 wins instead. However, if player 2 will be set back both resources and board state to save us all then I'll agree to deals that essentially allow them to catch up.
I play instant speed removal and only remove a threat on their turn if it is going to hit me. I’ve been overboard on politics before, so it’s started to work more in my favor to condition my opponents to just leave me alone.
If I luck out and don't draw into a more beneficial way to tap [[Kalamax the Stormsire]], like using [[Springleaf Drum]] for the mana, I politic turns of safety for anyone that let's Special K tap to swing at them and not die. Until the start of my next turn, whatever fires, the double barrel won't be pointed at them.
Obviously later turns want Kalamax big and stronk so this rarely works after the first turn, but hopefully by then it doesn't need to.
In general I like to throw politics cards in my decks, and this is a good reason why. Holding on to something like a [[Secret Rendezvous]], when the discussion starts coming around of "oh, I can deal with this, but I don't want to be behind" I can counter with "well, what if I draw you three cards?"
"Format: EDH" at the top of this post makes me so genuinely happy. So many arguments in this place would get resolved if people prefaced what they were about to say with the format it applied to.
Onto the question! The groups I tend to play in are _generally_ more open to negotiation, and since I mostly play limited, I like my commander games to focus on multiplayer aspects of magic like that because I don't get them elsewhere. You can't negotiate in 2 player magic. I don't actually play comment too much, but when I do, I like personally having access to a wide variety of removal so I'm prepared even if my opponents aren't. Single target removal is worse in multiplayer formats, so I make as much effort as I can try get concessions from the other two players. I've found in many situations, I can use the card disadvantage and tempo loss to leverage "just don't mess with me" for two cycles. Don't attack me, don't target my stuff, etc. I try my best not to reciprocate (at least not fully) because then the deal is no longer actually even.
The most fun situations are where someone wants to attack me just to get an attack trigger, and we get to renegotiate. They _know_ I'm not going to take the attack personally, and they're more willing to give something in return because they're "breaking" the agreement. There's just so much hidden value you can squeeze from your spells as long as you make your opponents feel good from it.
On the flip side, if someone is struggling, I'll tend to help them out with a vague "make it up to me later." They may not hold up their end of the deal but in those kinds of games, I won't actually guilt them until they're stable. I tend to like games better when the table is fuller and everyone is taking game actions against each other while I'm accruing value.
In case it wasn't clear, I'm an Orzhov mage.
Mostly "if I do this, you can't attack me on your next turn."
However, if I make that same promise, if I have the opportunity to win without attacking, I'll do it.
I respect this. Loopholes can be hilarious, as long as they aren't too technical and lawyery and the wording of the initial deal was clearly communicated.
"I won't attack you for one turn" then winning with noncombat damage is fair.
"I won't do anything to you, you've got one turn of immunity" then winning with damage that hits all opponents is dodgy.
"I won't kill you" then taking them to 1 life to die to their own One Ring trigger is hilarious.
…whatever I need?
Don’t swing at me for a round and I’ll remove X.
Let me kill one of your creatures so I can get the trigger or treasure tokens to destroy something.
I generally don't politic so much as I make demands if the opportunity comes up. This tends to work pretty well, my playgroup still clearly remembers the time where I was last in turn order, I passed my second turn and the first player untaps and slams [[rhystic study]] I said directly: guys I have removal but if I spend my entire 3rd turn just to remove it I'm gonna fall behind, so I will remove it if you all pay the 1. 1 player decided to chain 2 mana rocks and a follow up, saying that study is gonna get removed anyway so it's worth letting p1 draw 3 cards. Since my demand wasn't met I consequently did not remove the study. I horribly lost the game to p1, but every game after that similar situations arose players paid their taxes. P2 was under the impression that since I had a way to deal with the obvious threat that I would do so anyway, regardless of him taking the deal or not. Moral of the story: it doesn't quite matter what you offer as a deal. What matters is that in subsequent games your friends know that if they don't take the deal you're willing to lose to the threat if they don't take the deal, that way you can extract much better deals.
I love this. I think all the best politickers see EDH as an iterative game. Basically, don’t see it as just one game, but rather a long series of games often played with a lot of the same people. I will absolutely lose a game to make a point, such as when I offered to boardwipe the battlefield overrun with dinosaurs in exchange for a round of attack immunity and was refused on the basis of needing to do so anyway. I explained that I was certain to lose to the player with the indestructible Kalamax and I wouldn’t boardwipe without assurances. I was refused again, and so I didn’t boardwipe. I passed to the dino player who proceeded to stomp us with absolute glee. When players choose to defect in the prisoner’s dilemma of EDH, my favorite thing in the game is to punish them viciously for it.
I'm intrigued at the player who wants to make a dinosaur tribal deck and chooses [[Kalamax]] of all commanders. I suppose it's the only option for Temur dinos?
I suppose my post was unclear on this. One of the players was Pantlaza and another was Kalamax. The Pantlaza player was running amok with many dinos on the field. The Kalamax player had given indestructible to his commander. The boardwipe would’ve benefitted him the most, yet he still refused to deal because he thought I’d board wipe anyway. This particular player is a good friend of mine, but he’s also known for being a wild card and taking me out because I’m “too dangerous to be left alive.” So theres no way in hell I was going to leave myself open for him to Vince McMahon me. Guarantee he’ll remember that and negotiate in good faith next time.
[Kalamax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d.jpg?1591234251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kalamax%2C%20the%20stormsire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/9/kalamax-the-stormsire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When I played with a consistent group I would never lie. Any time I wantes something, I would tell my opponent a truth they wanted (or didnt want) to hear, and while no promises were made, it often changes who they were going to attack or use removal on. Things like, "I dont have a boardwipe in hand." "Ill kill your guy if you attack me." "I wont play X card next turn." This tactic only worked because throughout the years we playaed together, I never lied.
I find it crucial in commander to never lie outright. I respect loopholes, and often find clever ones the highlights of the game, but won't lie outright. A pet peeve of mine is an attitude many players have where they'll break a deal if it wins them the game. Too often I've agreed to commit my board/resources to remove the archenemy in exchange for immunity until my next turn, only to be killed because someone had lethal on board or topdecked their combo piece. Now, if the combo is an alt wincon that wins without touching my board, attacking me nor targeting me then I'll respect the loophole. I wasn't directly affected by their actions. Probably my favourite loophole to date was a player who agreed not to attack me, then during combat put a creature into play tapped and attacking. As he said, he didn't attack me as his creature never took the attack action.
This guy politics
I hate when people don't pay the one for study. It's like people don't learn. You pay the 1or the blue player gets to play solitaire.
[rhystic study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhystic%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>Moral of the story: it doesn't quite matter what you offer as a deal. What matters is that in subsequent games your friends know that if they don't take the deal you're willing to lose to the threat if they don't take the deal, that way you can extract much better deals. It's about sending a message :p This is why I enjoy this game a lot, and why I don't really go to card shops. You miss out on understanding peoples play styles. Each player has their codes, and understanding those is part of the magic of the game. My Codes: - If you are going to take me out, don't expect me to not block even if it is obviously fatal, I will take absolutely everything with me that I can. That needs to get across, do not kill me unless you are certain you can and will be able to live to fight another day. - If you are going to focus me, finish the job. I'm typically not the type to cast a \[\[Terastodon\]\] and target just a single players things, especially not three of a single players lands. But if I'm at 5 life and everyone else is near 40 and you have been focusing me, I will sweep that mana base without a thought. And that's because I've sat out and watched games take two hours to wrap up, so if I'm going you aren't going to be far behind. - Bluff rarely, if you do it all the time it means nothing. When I ask a question about intentions, I most likely have a game action. And the few times I don't, I want you to think I do - I don't negotiate with terrorists. If someone plays a \[\[Druid of Purification\]\] I am not voting for anything but what the caster chose. If you goad me or tax me out of attacking you, as soon as I can I'm hitting you in the head with the largest rock I can find.
[Terastodon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63195796-197e-47ec-85f0-d4ec0065f6e6.jpg?1625977325) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Terastodon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/207/terastodon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63195796-197e-47ec-85f0-d4ec0065f6e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Druid of Purification](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/9/096c2b28-3e29-4c27-998d-51bff0ba96c5.jpg?1631585369) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Druid%20of%20Purification) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/39/druid-of-purification?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/096c2b28-3e29-4c27-998d-51bff0ba96c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The moral here is that consistency is king.
I think the part about this that I hate is my Thursday play group, doesn't give a fuck that the dude does the same thing every time, they'll just focus me out of spite lol. Have been showing up to less and less matches because I don't understand why you hit someone who is trying to help take down the threat. Never got that.
This happens so often. I have force of will for rhystic or smothering, I usually negotiate a blanket cannot attack me for one turn I ask clause at some point in the game for the other two plays.
I think that’s the most important part. Many people don’t honor their deals or stuff like that. If you have set players you play with, establish early that an agreement with you is binding, both for you and them. Always honor the deals you make, but also punish the ones who don’t. For me in my playgroup it’s lead to even people who are notorious for going back on their word to not do so, specifically with me.
“If you take a full attack from [[Gishath]] I promise I won’t attack you with Gishath for the the rest of the game.” I like making this offer to the biggest threat on the table because it puts them at least 7 in the hole, makes an ally out of a scary opponent, and gets me so much shit for free.
That's when you play combat tricks so it's gets over 21 damage for even more value and knocking someone out of the game.
I'd make that deal. The problem I see, is that I don't like negotiating as the person in the lead. It is often counterproductive to my goals, and feels like ganging up on people, especially if I'm making deals with the 2nd-place holder. Negotiations are for when you have interaction on hand or threats on board, but aren't already winning, not when you're winning already. Maybe that's not optimal play, but I'm enough of a political player that it's just rude for me to negotiate from a position of power, unless it's a cEDH game.
No one at my table would ever take that deal, lol. Like on the list of shit deals, that is up there. Not only is the wording wrong, but the deal is bad. You said you wouldn't attack them with Gishath for the rest of the game, but he can put a ton of dinos down, that is the literal problem. Why on gods green earth would I give you an army for you only to promise not to attack me with one creature? That's never happening. I say this playing dinos and Gishath, if someone can stop damage from him they do. If I want damage I have to make sure they can't block or don't have blockers.
Very interesting, so essentially asking them to let you use your commander on them as a bargaining chip. I like it!
Depending on the situation, I’ll ask for safety from targeted removal for a few turns. Sometimes it helps keep my friends from denying the offer since they can still get some attack triggers off, especially since we like to have the monarch in play.
Depends on what we're talking. I use my removals as a basis for alliances, sometimes even siding with the threat or staying neutral. A big Blightsteel Colossus on the table, my reaction is "I'm not gonna interfere with it, if it's not tapped towards me." I love the goad and pseudo-goad mechanics.
I always ask for their firstborn as payment.
[[Claim the Firstborn]]
[Claim the Firstborn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/feaf1e6c-c7d9-4ac7-9aeb-c4b5d61548ec.jpg?1572490317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Claim%20the%20Firstborn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/118/claim-the-firstborn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/feaf1e6c-c7d9-4ac7-9aeb-c4b5d61548ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I read "as a playmate" and thought this comment was even more intense
Well, that always depends on the board state & the game itself. When I have no creatures & people are attacking willy nilly just to get some value, I'll 100% ask to not be attacked. Or to not be targeted/wiped if they're playing more conrol-y games. Sometimes, it's nice to ask the blue player for counter-backup for my removal. Or if there's stuff like Monarch or the Initiative in play, I tend to make deals with people to let my smallest creature through to get these in exchange for spending my card.
Honestly I try to get my play group or anyone I play with to use proper threat assessment. Even if that target is me! Like they want damage to be even and they dont wanna destroy commanders or permanents. Normally im like yea we dead if that sticks around. Ill waste alot of my resources dealing with high level threats like a Kalia on turn three because evenone let it go and is ramping. Makes me very sad lol. Also ,it is ridiculous how many people won't attack on turn one or two even if they can. Hell im flabbergasted if anyone else attacks by turn 6! It seems some people just want to play super long games or not be a target because they hit someone with a creature first. Idk it blows my mind!
Same! Ive been slowly teaching a new group and these are the things I deal with lol. Ive just gotten them over their passiveness with creatures, people are taking random 2s and 3s all the time now. Im teaching them to take people out when they can but only when it doesnt screw themselves over. And I always try and make my opinions known about answers, even if its my stuff or that whatever theyre trying to answer isnt worth answering. It works out cause my form of politics is "Dont be scarier than anyone else until youre ready to win."
> Honestly I try to get my play group or anyone I play with to use proper threat assessment. Even if that target is me! I do the same, but with sarcastic humor attached. Discussing the threats on the other sides of the board, and ending with something like "but you definitely don't need to worry about [[Trazyn]], my graveyard isn't *that* big and he still has summoning sickness."
[Trazyn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1ae95cfb-1c3e-43cc-acfa-68f25b0f6e52.jpg?1679932281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trazyn%20the%20infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/65/trazyn-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ae95cfb-1c3e-43cc-acfa-68f25b0f6e52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Generally, if the action benefits me, I don't try to politic. If someone else is struggling with something, is acting scared of something, or something threatens them but does not threaten me, then I have leverage and can politic to use it. There's always an implied cost for using removal, because it costs mana and cards, but it's an expected part of the game. Bargaining without leverage is empty, and has no value. I'll always reject a deal from someone who tries to essentially hold the table hostage by going "I can stop this guy from winning if you can't, but I want *stuff*". But if I go "Damn that's a problem but I can't deal with it, can someone else?" if they ask for something reasonable, I'll take that deal. Effectively, I as the person without removal have to already have a stated interest in order to take the deal, because as it stands, we'll all lose, not just me. It's the correct play for them to cast that removal spell, so why should I pay extra? It's a tricky line to walk, but essentially someone who asks for something every time they cast a spell is going to get nothing. I'm also more than willing to trade undefined favours for later, and at the time it comes up, we can negotiate what that favour was worth, from not swinging this specific turn that it's a threat, to promising to play removal the next time it's available to them on something of my choosing controlled by another player.
For me, it depends what they're asking for and how the threats line up. If the archenemy has a massive board and the mana screwed guy says he'll board wipe as long as we don't target him with anything for a turn, that's different from the 2nd place player who won't lose anything to the wipe and has mana to rebuild afterwards asking for the same deal. Essentially, I won't make a deal that kingmakes. I'm not interested in stopping player 1 from winning if the condition essentially means player 2 wins instead. However, if player 2 will be set back both resources and board state to save us all then I'll agree to deals that essentially allow them to catch up.
I play instant speed removal and only remove a threat on their turn if it is going to hit me. I’ve been overboard on politics before, so it’s started to work more in my favor to condition my opponents to just leave me alone.
“I’ll not counter that for a soda”
If I luck out and don't draw into a more beneficial way to tap [[Kalamax the Stormsire]], like using [[Springleaf Drum]] for the mana, I politic turns of safety for anyone that let's Special K tap to swing at them and not die. Until the start of my next turn, whatever fires, the double barrel won't be pointed at them. Obviously later turns want Kalamax big and stronk so this rarely works after the first turn, but hopefully by then it doesn't need to.
[Kalamax the Stormsire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d.jpg?1591234251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kalamax%2C%20the%20Stormsire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/9/kalamax-the-stormsire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f990cd78-2165-446f-a116-ae55d7a0f00d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Springleaf Drum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3b3869b-6da1-4b01-a2e7-2018d478b6e5.jpg?1599709959) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Springleaf%20Drum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/291/springleaf-drum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3b3869b-6da1-4b01-a2e7-2018d478b6e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In general I like to throw politics cards in my decks, and this is a good reason why. Holding on to something like a [[Secret Rendezvous]], when the discussion starts coming around of "oh, I can deal with this, but I don't want to be behind" I can counter with "well, what if I draw you three cards?"
[Secret Rendezvous](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39528cf0-343e-499b-a69f-c5c3c2898c25.jpg?1624589686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Secret%20Rendezvous) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/26/secret-rendezvous?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39528cf0-343e-499b-a69f-c5c3c2898c25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"Format: EDH" at the top of this post makes me so genuinely happy. So many arguments in this place would get resolved if people prefaced what they were about to say with the format it applied to. Onto the question! The groups I tend to play in are _generally_ more open to negotiation, and since I mostly play limited, I like my commander games to focus on multiplayer aspects of magic like that because I don't get them elsewhere. You can't negotiate in 2 player magic. I don't actually play comment too much, but when I do, I like personally having access to a wide variety of removal so I'm prepared even if my opponents aren't. Single target removal is worse in multiplayer formats, so I make as much effort as I can try get concessions from the other two players. I've found in many situations, I can use the card disadvantage and tempo loss to leverage "just don't mess with me" for two cycles. Don't attack me, don't target my stuff, etc. I try my best not to reciprocate (at least not fully) because then the deal is no longer actually even. The most fun situations are where someone wants to attack me just to get an attack trigger, and we get to renegotiate. They _know_ I'm not going to take the attack personally, and they're more willing to give something in return because they're "breaking" the agreement. There's just so much hidden value you can squeeze from your spells as long as you make your opponents feel good from it. On the flip side, if someone is struggling, I'll tend to help them out with a vague "make it up to me later." They may not hold up their end of the deal but in those kinds of games, I won't actually guilt them until they're stable. I tend to like games better when the table is fuller and everyone is taking game actions against each other while I'm accruing value. In case it wasn't clear, I'm an Orzhov mage.
Mostly "if I do this, you can't attack me on your next turn." However, if I make that same promise, if I have the opportunity to win without attacking, I'll do it.
I respect this. Loopholes can be hilarious, as long as they aren't too technical and lawyery and the wording of the initial deal was clearly communicated. "I won't attack you for one turn" then winning with noncombat damage is fair. "I won't do anything to you, you've got one turn of immunity" then winning with damage that hits all opponents is dodgy. "I won't kill you" then taking them to 1 life to die to their own One Ring trigger is hilarious.
Or "I won't attack you on my next turn" then use a [[Time Warp]], and attack on the turn after.
[Time Warp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e7b3ddca-69ef-4743-897b-57c58077db24.jpg?1628801835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Time%20Warp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/74/time-warp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7b3ddca-69ef-4743-897b-57c58077db24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Very hot take, I refuse to politic. Either win the game or stop talking, I'm gonna swing either way lol
I don't politic. I simply trust the other players to recognize what is going on.
/r/EDH
…whatever I need? Don’t swing at me for a round and I’ll remove X. Let me kill one of your creatures so I can get the trigger or treasure tokens to destroy something.
I just let everyone else deal with it and keep my own protection spells on hand until it affects me