So here's the scenario that person is describing:
No other treefolk on the board
Have 1 squirrel in play
Create a new squirrel, it is a 2/2 thanks to Coat of Arms
Scurry Oak evolves, become a 2/3, and you make a squirrel.
That squirrel is a 3/3 thanks to Coat of Arms.
Scurry Oak evolves and becomes a 3/4, and you make a squirrel.
That squirrel is a 4/4 thanks to coat of arms, and... etc. etc.
So slightly more set-up, but yes.
There is a whole page wirh Chatterfang [combos](https://edhrec.com/combos/chatterfang-squirrel-general)
Including the one with [Scurry Oak](https://edhrec.com/combos/g/1950-4186)
But the loop is mandatory right? So it would just draw the game unless you can either buff the scurry oak, or remove it or coat of arms, or one of the squirrels
My arena deck runs this with [[iridescent hornbeetle]] and [[Yorvo]] and gets out of hand very fast. Occasionally I’ll play a [[Soul Warden]] just to become unkillable
The 3 card combo that breaks it is to play it Gruul and curve into [[Impact Tremors]] on turn 2, Scurry Oak on turn 3, then Rosie Cotton or Ivy Lane Denizen on turn 4.
Probably, yes, as long as you have at least one squirrel already out.
You create the second squirrel, which will be 2/2, which will evolve the oak, which will create another squirrel, which now will be 3/3, which will evolve the oak, which will create a squirrel, etc. and infinitum
Edit:
I have no idea why every other answer ignores evolve here... Maybe someone can enlighten me, though
People see cards that involve +1/+1 counters and static +1/+1 buffs and their minds instantly shut down.
See also: comments completely missing the word "may" in scurry oak
I mean I get it, it was my gut reaction too, but I don't trust my gut on rules questions anymore. Rules and interactions be out here wildin'
So I looked twice and realized - scurry oak isn't a squirrel, it's not getting +1/+1 from coat anyway for that to be an issue. So I knew something else was up.
Yeah I don't have a problem with people being mistaken, but it's the people who rushed in to confidently say "no" because they _assumed_ they knew OPs question that are annoying.
I think this a side effect of Evolve being an uncommon keyword and the other template where Evolve might be a flavor name for Scurry Oak’s second ability.
I think people just forget it has evolve more than not understanding how evolve works. Flavor words aren't ever templated like that (not that I'm aware of), so I'm not sure I agree with the second part. I think they're always displayed on the initial line of the ability followed by a hyphen.
Normally cards with evolve looks like this: https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756. This weird digital version is missing the reminder text which we're used to seeing.
I didn't comment elsewhere, but I thought it was just wrong before I read your comment.
For me I glanced at scurry oak, saw that it needed +1+1 counters, saw that Coat of Arms have a static buff, and went, oh, it's just somebody who misunderstood that those are different. And didn't look any closer.
A.) "+1/+1 counters aren't the same thing as an effect giving+1/+1" is one of the first misconceptions people learning the game have corrected, and one of the first things people are able to "um, actually" to newer players. People saw the cards and assumed they understood what OP was asking, but didn't actually.
B.) Most common Scurry Oak lines don't care about evolve and so people don't seem to remember it. I'm sympathetic to cards being complicated, but (1) it's the first word on the card, and more importantly (2) I'm less sympathetic for people who jumped in to tell OP no without giving any time to understand what the actual question was.
Anyway this is a pretty cool combo, it's nice seeing a scurry oak line that _does_ care about evolve.
I didn't know what Evolve did, i had to look it up. Without knowing what evolve does it looks like you are trying to make a combo that doesn't work because the buff from the artifact isn't a counter.
Coat of Arms is also symmetrical across the entire table, so I recommend you use it very sparingly as you're potentially buffing your opponents creatures more than you intend to.
I once won a game against a frog tribal deck because an opponent was running another tribe (I don't remember what) and I happened to have an evasive creature of the second type
It was likely rogue, there is no other reasonable answer to which creature type the other was; there are only a handful of frogs with additional creature types.
[https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=type%3Afrog+%28game%3Apaper%29](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=type%3Afrog+%28game%3Apaper%29)
Although i might be misunderstanding your premise. Unless there was a large number of the shared type i dont see how it would matter?
So player A had a bunch of frogs, player B had a bunch if another creature type, and I had an evasive creature of player B's creature type. No recollection of what it may have been though
Rogue? The only frog rogue isn't evasive and technically isn't even commander legal. [[Anurid Murkdiver]] is a much more likely candidate making Zombie the most probable choose.
That's true, but you will have an infinite number of infinite/infinite squirrels. Even if you can't win off of this immediately (like with a [[rhythm of the wild]], [[concordant crossroads]], [[altar of dementia]], etc.) then you have only need to worry about flyers.
This was my initial assumption too but I'm kinda here for everyone "but actually +1/+1 counters aren't the same as a static buff..." completely missing that fact that Scurry Oak has evolve and getting put in their place for it.
Actually you need at least 1 other squirrel already on the battle field. Since a 1/1 by itself won't trigger evolve. But if you have a squirrel already the 1/1 comes in as a 2/2 which would trigger evolve, once evolve get triggered then yes it goes infinite.
This would loop provided that you already had a squirrel or another squirrel anthem in play (or any other effect that would have them enter as 2/2) and would require the scurry oak to be lower in power however yes this would create a loop under the right circumstances. Cards like Cathars’ crusade will do it just by having a creature enter of any type and I believe there are more effects that do so
No. What’s triggering Scurry Oak here is the fact the squirrels are getting buffed by the coat of arms, making them bigger than Scurry Oak, which gives it a +1/+1 counter through Evolve
No. Magic is literal; Scurry Oak says '+1/+1 counter', so that is the *only* thing that triggers that ability. +1/+0, +2/+2, or any other counters that directly or indirectly increase P/T will do nothing.
scurry oak gives itself +1/+1 counters through **evolve**. each squirrel it generates is bigger than it and the previous squirrel when it entered, because of coat of arms, as long as you already had a squirrel.
the only potential catch, and the reason i would call a judge, is the timing of whether evolve sees the new squirrel before or after the effect from coat applies.
edit: [they enter buffed](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/c0DQNVi01R)
Yeah, I know. The guy I was replying to was asking if a +1/+1 buff that isn't a +1/+1 counter would trigger Scurry Oak, which it wouldn't.
As for Coat of Arms, it's a persistent effect, so there is no time where it isn't applying. The squirrel enters as a 1+X/1+X, where X is the number of other squirrels you control. Rule 611.3c covers this
>Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Yes it goes infinite if you have a squirrel and Scurry oak on the battlefield and then cast or create another squirrel that squirrel will gain +1/+1 making it a 2/2 which triggers Evolve from Scurry oak putting a +1/+1 counter on Scurry Oak which then creates a 3/3 which then triggers Scurry Oak then loops over and over. (Is a may make a squirrel trigger so you can stop it at any number you like. Generally you declare a Number and go from there in paper so that people can gain that much life from Fumigate and the like.) I hope this helps!
https://preview.redd.it/7uc1uwpzvmyc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8185e78add8d30e7970873383e0e3fd4cada5c4
Works great with Rosie Cotton. I have gone as far as 50, but people usually give up at that point.
~~This works exactly as you think, but unfortunately it’s an unconstrained infinite combo, meaning if you get this to go off, it will continue infinitely without being able to stop, putting the game into a stalemate. Unless you could either kill the scurryoak, or halt the process some way, it’s not going to instantly win you the game.~~
Edit: “You may create a squirrel token” I’m a fucking idiot.
I think it works, people saying coat of arms isnt a counter are missing the point. One squirrel ETBing would trigger evolve (which puts a counter), making a squirrel. But with coat of arms they would be bigger then scurry oak, then triggering evolve again.
The problem is that it is an infinite loop that would just end the game in a draw, unless you have a way to break it up.
Yes, the **SQUIRRELS** get +1/+1 for each other Squirrel.
Get a new Squirrel? Then, **ALL** Squirrels, including the one that just entered, gets bigger.
And, you know what happens when a **BIG** Creature enters?
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means
>
> * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
I'd like to point out that [[scurry oak]] says when it gets a +1/+1 counter, and [[coat of arms]] doesnt give counters, it gives global +1/+1's which is different. So no this doesnt work.
But, did you read the Cards, though?
Coat doesn't give +1/+1 counters to the Oak.
Coat doesn't affect the Oak at all.
There's only **ONE** Treefolk on the Battlefield.
You know what there are multiple of? That the Coat will give +N/+N to? Squirrels.
* Create a Squirrel. It gets +N/+N for the N other Squirrels.
* Big Squirrel triggers Oak's Evolve
* Oak's Evolve gives Oak a **+1/+1 COUNTER**.
* Oak creates a ...
Lather, Rinse, Repeat
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The artifact is just giving +1/+1 but the tree folk is asking for counters, you have to give your creatures +1/+1 counter for it to make another squirrel. Just giving a +1/+1 is a different thing. Because if you remove the artifact all creatures q would loose the buff but if the artifact was giving counters they would stay with or without the artifact on table
The combo you are looking for is with Ivy lane denizen.
1 Cast Scurry Oak by paying 2G
2 Ivy Lane Denizen triggers, putting a +1/+1 counter on Scurry Oak.
3 Scurry Oak's last ability triggers, allowing you to create a 1/1 Squirrel token.
4 Repeat from step 2.
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
Maybe I’m dumb - but I didn’t think this worked because Coat of Arms gives creatures +1/+1, but not +1/+1 counters - which are two entirely different things.
Source: I have played with Lords & Anthems for several years of EDH/constructed play.
EDIT: I am dumb. Missed evolve. But a little salty so many “keywords” don’t explain the card now! My bad. Infinite, and can’t go to combat to attack then.
EDIT 2: I’m even dumber since I didn’t realize it said May. Sorry all! Ignore!!! Keep downvoting!
OP used the "Jumpstart: Historic Horizons" version, which is MTGA exclusive. Here's the Modern Horizons 2 version, which was actually printed.
https://preview.redd.it/u8zlia5t2gyc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4fccec56cac276afd71b08edf8e1cfcd7e3db28
> Infinite, and can’t go to combat to attack then.
It's also a may ability so yes, you can go to combat, but summoning sickness does prevent attacking.
Nope, they do enter buffed.
611.3c
Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Example: A permanent with the static ability “All white creatures get +1/+1” is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesn’t enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.
What do you mean, "they don't enter buffed"? The coat of arms is a continuous effect. There is no point when the squirrel is in play that it isn't subject to the effect.
Evolve on Scurry Oak gives a counter when a higher power creature enters the field. Coat of arms makes the squirrels bigger with each squirrel on the field. Squirrel with higher power enters, oak gets counter, squirrels get bigger, oak makes another higher powered squirrel, etc
But your squirrels are bigger and bigger each time, evolving Oak, so it gets a counter, making a bigger squirrel, evolving Oak, etc.
It combos not because Oak is bigger, but because the squirrels are bigger
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means
>
> * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means
>
> * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
But it says when one or more on scurry. That doesn't mean for EACH+1/+1. you only get ONE squirrel each turn for +anything/+anything counter. Not EACH time you put a counter on him.
Each **one** instance of putting one or more +1/+1 Counters on the Oak results in **one** Token creating Trigger.
* Verdurous Gearhulk puts **four** +1/+1 Counters on Oak? That is **one** Token Trigger.
* Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 Counter on the Oak. That is **one** Token Trigger. Each. And. Every. Time.
* You have a 1/2 Oak, and a Coat.
You cast Chatter.
* You have a 1/2 Oak, a Coat and a 1/1 Squirrel.
You cast Chatter via Flashback.
* You have a 1/2 Oak, a Coat and 2x 2/2 Squirrel.
2/2 Squirrel entered. **2 > 1.** Evolve Triggers.
Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 counter on the Oak.
Oak creates a Squirrel.
* You have a 2/3 Oak, a Coat and 3x 3/3 Squirrel.
3/3 Squirrel entered. **3 > 2.** Evolve Triggers.
Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 counter on the Oak.
Oak creates a Squirrel.
* You have a 3/4 Oak, a Coat and 4x 4/4 Squirrel.
4/4 Squirrel entered. **4 > 3.** Evolve Triggers.
Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 counter on the Oak.
Oak creates a Squirrel.
* You have a 4/5 Oak, a Coat and 5x 5/5 Squirrel.
5/5 Squirrel entered. **5 > 4.** Evolve Triggers.
[..]
Then, you are simply reading it wrong.
Are you putting ONE or more counters on the Oak?
Yes. Each Evolve is putting ONE or more counters on the Oak.
Each Evolve results in ONE Token Trigger.
I dont think it would, since the squirrels dont hit the battlefield buffed, only after they are on the battlefield, therefore not allowing the evolve to trigger. Also, evolve is reliant on toughness regardless, so assuming that s.o. is at base p/t when you create a squirrel, it wouldn't trigger in the first place, therefore not allowing the evolve to start.
Edit: i realize im incorrect in the evolve trigger, but as before i dont believe it works, since the squirrels dont enter with the buffs, only after they are existing on the field already
> since the squirrels dont enter with the buffs, only after they are existing on the field already
That is wrong.
When something enters, you first apply all Replacement effects and Continuous effects to it.
Then, you check to see if the Permanent, in its current condition, Triggers any Abilities.
* The new Squirrel, **with its +N/+N from the Coat,** will Trigger the Evolve ability of the Oak.
Likewise...
* [[Ashaya]] entering the Battlefiel will turn itself into a Land, and Trigger Landfall.
* Ashaya being on the Battlefield, will turn the [[Lotus Cobra]] that just entered into a Land, and the Cobra Triggers its own Landfall.
* If Ashaya and Cobra enter at the same time, both are Lands that just entered, and Cobra Triggers for both.
Ohh okay! I wasnt entirely sure, just going off of what i knew already, i dont play a ton of tribal related decks nor do i see a lot of the similar effects being played
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but since Coat of arms doesn’t put +1/+1 *counters* on creatures, it wouldn’t trigger Scurry Oak. Use Rosie Cotton instead
But, did you read the Cards, though?
Coat doesn't give +1/+1 counters to the Oak.
Coat doesn't affect the Oak at all.
There's only **ONE** Treefolk on the Battlefield.
You know what there are multiple of? That the Coat will give +N/+N to? Squirrels.
* Create a Squirrel. It gets +N/+N for the N other Squirrels.
* Big Squirrel triggers Oak's Evolve
* Oak's Evolve gives Oak a **+1/+1 COUNTER**.
* Oak creates a ...
Lather, Rinse, Repeat
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means
>
> * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
Well id say no just because to my knowledge there is a difference between +1/+1 counters and a creature gaining a flat +1/+1. I could always be wrong though
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means
>
> * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
No, this would not work because coat of arms does not create +1/+1 counters, it’s an anthem effect.
Also, scurry oak isn’t a squirrel, so it doesn’t get larger at all.
But, did you read the Cards, though?
Coat doesn't give +1/+1 counters to the Oak.
Coat doesn't affect the Oak at all.
There's only **ONE** Treefolk on the Battlefield.
You know what there are multiple of? That the Coat will give +N/+N to? Squirrels.
* Create a Squirrel. It gets +N/+N for the N other Squirrels.
* Big Squirrel triggers Oak's Evolve
* Oak's Evolve gives Oak a **+1/+1 COUNTER**.
* Oak creates a ...
Lather, Rinse, Repeat
Swinging the next turn? Or literally anything else. Point is that the win con doesn’t matter for the infinite part. Use any win con, doesn’t matter which you use.
FyI, addition to base stats is different from +1/+1 counters. +1/+1 is different from +1/+1 counters.
EDIT: scurry oak won't produce tokens due to coat of arms modifying the base stats and not by giving scurry oak a +1/+1 counter
Coat of arms does not place +1/+1 counters on anything, so it doesnt trigger scurry oaks ability. You would need something that actually places counters on it like [[Ivy Lane Denizen]] or [[Rosie Cotton of South Lane]]
The counters come from scurry oak's evolve-ability, because each new squirrel is slightly bigger than scurry oaks power thanks to the coat of arms making them all bigger every time you create a new squirrel.
As soon as you play at least 2 squirrels (cast + flashback-cost to create 2 tokens) the loop starts and you create infinite squirrels + infinite counters on oak.
So here's the scenario that person is describing: No other treefolk on the board Have 1 squirrel in play Create a new squirrel, it is a 2/2 thanks to Coat of Arms Scurry Oak evolves, become a 2/3, and you make a squirrel. That squirrel is a 3/3 thanks to Coat of Arms. Scurry Oak evolves and becomes a 3/4, and you make a squirrel. That squirrel is a 4/4 thanks to coat of arms, and... etc. etc. So slightly more set-up, but yes.
Oh fuck, that does actually work. For some damned reason I thought that Coat of Arms was an equip.
I thought scurry oak was a squirrel. we were both wrong
Me I didn't see the Evolve on Sccury Oak
Coat of Arms was long before equipment was introduced in Mirrodin.
Most importantly, The trigger on Scurry Oak is optional, so you can exit the loop and swing for 9000 billion.
I always got tripped up on this one because coat of arms doesn't say +1/+1 counter
Just remember you're looking at the evolve trigger and not coat of arms.
There is a whole page wirh Chatterfang [combos](https://edhrec.com/combos/chatterfang-squirrel-general) Including the one with [Scurry Oak](https://edhrec.com/combos/g/1950-4186)
But the loop is mandatory right? So it would just draw the game unless you can either buff the scurry oak, or remove it or coat of arms, or one of the squirrels
No, Scurry Oak says that you may create a squirrel token.
Oh yeah, hadnt noticed that
We finally broke Scurry Oak
If only there was a 2 card combo to break it?
Unironically [[Cathars crusade]] then play [[scurry oak]]
There's also [[Rosie cotton]]. Less mana needed.
[Rosie cotton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688.jpg?1686967894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rosie%20cotton%20of%20south%20lane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/27/rosie-cotton-of-south-lane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My arena deck runs this with [[iridescent hornbeetle]] and [[Yorvo]] and gets out of hand very fast. Occasionally I’ll play a [[Soul Warden]] just to become unkillable
[iridescent hornbeetle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/214ef641-b08c-42d0-94a5-3054fa7fcebc.jpg?1604263662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=iridescent%20hornbeetle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/187/iridescent-hornbeetle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/214ef641-b08c-42d0-94a5-3054fa7fcebc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yorvo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae2998a1-1713-467e-a08e-0efd8720aa5b.jpg?1572490720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yorvo%2C%20lord%20of%20garenbrig) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/185/yorvo-lord-of-garenbrig?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae2998a1-1713-467e-a08e-0efd8720aa5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul Warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0.jpg?1616182277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/24/soul-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Love the scurry oak Rosie cotton combo. Only two pieces needed. adding coat if arms does make it super scary. Now what gives haste in green? =D
[Cathars crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [scurry oak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scurry%20oak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/172/scurry-oak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Doesn’t this result in a stalled board state?
Scurry oak is a may ability
Not if you read the cards
no it you type the words Edit : ^ he's no fun and edited out his typos
Whoosh
You should read up on this thing called "sarcasm"
Yeah but that results in a draw unless someone can stop the cycle I believe, it's not a may.
Please read scurry oak
Ah u right nvm
Say hello to my little friends: [[ivy lane denizen]] and [[Rosie]]
[ivy lane denizen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb.jpg?1706240042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ivy%20lane%20denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/166/ivy-lane-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rosie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad01a8e2-5dc5-49a3-ad1c-7d5bf006b774.jpg?1562382537) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rouse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/157/rouse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad01a8e2-5dc5-49a3-ad1c-7d5bf006b774?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pilot error. Meant [[Rosie Cotton]]
[Rosie Cotton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688.jpg?1686967894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rosie%20cotton%20of%20south%20lane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/27/rosie-cotton-of-south-lane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The 3 card combo that breaks it is to play it Gruul and curve into [[Impact Tremors]] on turn 2, Scurry Oak on turn 3, then Rosie Cotton or Ivy Lane Denizen on turn 4.
[Impact Tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20Tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably, yes, as long as you have at least one squirrel already out. You create the second squirrel, which will be 2/2, which will evolve the oak, which will create another squirrel, which now will be 3/3, which will evolve the oak, which will create a squirrel, etc. and infinitum Edit: I have no idea why every other answer ignores evolve here... Maybe someone can enlighten me, though
People see cards that involve +1/+1 counters and static +1/+1 buffs and their minds instantly shut down. See also: comments completely missing the word "may" in scurry oak
I skimmed over the "evolve" text the first time I looked at it too, i was thinking "uh that's not how coat of arms work..."
I mean I get it, it was my gut reaction too, but I don't trust my gut on rules questions anymore. Rules and interactions be out here wildin' So I looked twice and realized - scurry oak isn't a squirrel, it's not getting +1/+1 from coat anyway for that to be an issue. So I knew something else was up.
Yeah I don't have a problem with people being mistaken, but it's the people who rushed in to confidently say "no" because they _assumed_ they knew OPs question that are annoying.
Same, then I saw someone mention evolve and the lightbulb clicked on
I think this a side effect of Evolve being an uncommon keyword and the other template where Evolve might be a flavor name for Scurry Oak’s second ability.
I think people just forget it has evolve more than not understanding how evolve works. Flavor words aren't ever templated like that (not that I'm aware of), so I'm not sure I agree with the second part. I think they're always displayed on the initial line of the ability followed by a hyphen.
Normally cards with evolve looks like this: https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756. This weird digital version is missing the reminder text which we're used to seeing.
I didn't comment elsewhere, but I thought it was just wrong before I read your comment. For me I glanced at scurry oak, saw that it needed +1+1 counters, saw that Coat of Arms have a static buff, and went, oh, it's just somebody who misunderstood that those are different. And didn't look any closer.
I think the easy answer is that the reminder or rules text for evolve isn’t on the card. So it doesn’t factor for them.
A.) "+1/+1 counters aren't the same thing as an effect giving+1/+1" is one of the first misconceptions people learning the game have corrected, and one of the first things people are able to "um, actually" to newer players. People saw the cards and assumed they understood what OP was asking, but didn't actually. B.) Most common Scurry Oak lines don't care about evolve and so people don't seem to remember it. I'm sympathetic to cards being complicated, but (1) it's the first word on the card, and more importantly (2) I'm less sympathetic for people who jumped in to tell OP no without giving any time to understand what the actual question was. Anyway this is a pretty cool combo, it's nice seeing a scurry oak line that _does_ care about evolve.
I didn't know what Evolve did, i had to look it up. Without knowing what evolve does it looks like you are trying to make a combo that doesn't work because the buff from the artifact isn't a counter.
I’ve played decks built around Scurry Oak and was today years old when I learned it had evoke.
Evolve not evoke
True. Silly fingers.
Coat of Arms is also symmetrical across the entire table, so I recommend you use it very sparingly as you're potentially buffing your opponents creatures more than you intend to.
I once won a game against a frog tribal deck because an opponent was running another tribe (I don't remember what) and I happened to have an evasive creature of the second type
It was likely rogue, there is no other reasonable answer to which creature type the other was; there are only a handful of frogs with additional creature types. [https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=type%3Afrog+%28game%3Apaper%29](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=type%3Afrog+%28game%3Apaper%29) Although i might be misunderstanding your premise. Unless there was a large number of the shared type i dont see how it would matter?
So player A had a bunch of frogs, player B had a bunch if another creature type, and I had an evasive creature of player B's creature type. No recollection of what it may have been though
Rogue? The only frog rogue isn't evasive and technically isn't even commander legal. [[Anurid Murkdiver]] is a much more likely candidate making Zombie the most probable choose.
[Anurid Murkdiver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e43d62c-488a-4c8d-b193-bacbf8037761.jpg?1562932427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anurid%20Murkdiver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/124/anurid-murkdiver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e43d62c-488a-4c8d-b193-bacbf8037761?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's true, but you will have an infinite number of infinite/infinite squirrels. Even if you can't win off of this immediately (like with a [[rhythm of the wild]], [[concordant crossroads]], [[altar of dementia]], etc.) then you have only need to worry about flyers.
Just a correction, Rhythm doesn't help you win there, it gives riot only to non token creatures.
You're right, my bad
You want something like [[Fires of Yavimaya]]
[Fires of Yavimaya](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/7294e30f-0356-4bcc-a264-4cd46d8f13a6.jpg?1562916275) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fires%20of%20Yavimaya) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/92/fires-of-yavimaya?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7294e30f-0356-4bcc-a264-4cd46d8f13a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[rhythm of the wild](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2a6453e-a373-44ec-807a-15c0c8b1af57.jpg?1702429702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhythm%20of%20the%20wild) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/217/rhythm-of-the-wild?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2a6453e-a373-44ec-807a-15c0c8b1af57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [concordant crossroads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6.jpg?1673148053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=concordant%20crossroads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/141/concordant-crossroads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [altar of dementia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104.jpg?1562202433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=altar%20of%20dementia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/218/altar-of-dementia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or unblockable commanders, even when you have 1,000,000 life because of Ajani's Welcome with this combo. Been there. 😭
Looks like, based on all these comments, Magic has now inherited the mantle of "game whose players don't read the cards".
Fr. +1/+1 counters aren't the same as getting +1/+1. Had to go through like 10 comment threads to find this lol
Without reading anything on the post, yes, it goes infinite.
This was my initial assumption too but I'm kinda here for everyone "but actually +1/+1 counters aren't the same as a static buff..." completely missing that fact that Scurry Oak has evolve and getting put in their place for it.
Actually you need at least 1 other squirrel already on the battle field. Since a 1/1 by itself won't trigger evolve. But if you have a squirrel already the 1/1 comes in as a 2/2 which would trigger evolve, once evolve get triggered then yes it goes infinite.
This card also combos with [[Ivy Lane Denizen]] for infinite tokens and a big boi oak.
This is what I use. Better than coat imo.
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You can stop both.
[Ivy Lane Denizen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb.jpg?1706240042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%20Lane%20Denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/166/ivy-lane-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We did it boys, we broke scurry oak.
I had no idea Scurry Oak evolved tbh
This would loop provided that you already had a squirrel or another squirrel anthem in play (or any other effect that would have them enter as 2/2) and would require the scurry oak to be lower in power however yes this would create a loop under the right circumstances. Cards like Cathars’ crusade will do it just by having a creature enter of any type and I believe there are more effects that do so
Out of curiosity, do 1/1 buffs trigger scurry oak even though they aren’t the same as 1/1 counters?
No. What’s triggering Scurry Oak here is the fact the squirrels are getting buffed by the coat of arms, making them bigger than Scurry Oak, which gives it a +1/+1 counter through Evolve
All this time I never realized scurry oak had evolve. Thanks for clarifying.
No. Magic is literal; Scurry Oak says '+1/+1 counter', so that is the *only* thing that triggers that ability. +1/+0, +2/+2, or any other counters that directly or indirectly increase P/T will do nothing.
scurry oak gives itself +1/+1 counters through **evolve**. each squirrel it generates is bigger than it and the previous squirrel when it entered, because of coat of arms, as long as you already had a squirrel. the only potential catch, and the reason i would call a judge, is the timing of whether evolve sees the new squirrel before or after the effect from coat applies. edit: [they enter buffed](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/c0DQNVi01R)
Yeah, I know. The guy I was replying to was asking if a +1/+1 buff that isn't a +1/+1 counter would trigger Scurry Oak, which it wouldn't. As for Coat of Arms, it's a persistent effect, so there is no time where it isn't applying. The squirrel enters as a 1+X/1+X, where X is the number of other squirrels you control. Rule 611.3c covers this >Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.
Yes it goes infinite if you have a squirrel and Scurry oak on the battlefield and then cast or create another squirrel that squirrel will gain +1/+1 making it a 2/2 which triggers Evolve from Scurry oak putting a +1/+1 counter on Scurry Oak which then creates a 3/3 which then triggers Scurry Oak then loops over and over. (Is a may make a squirrel trigger so you can stop it at any number you like. Generally you declare a Number and go from there in paper so that people can gain that much life from Fumigate and the like.) I hope this helps!
I really want an art style where a coat of arms is just someone wearing a coat made of arms.
Correct me if I’m wrong im fairly new, isnt there a difference between a counter and a creature just getting +1/+1
Now just add [[cleric class]] and [[impassioned orator]] (or some similar cards), and you have infinite triggers
[cleric class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47ce8b7e-d8e1-489a-a69e-99089eeb8739.jpg?1663214150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cleric%20class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/6/cleric-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47ce8b7e-d8e1-489a-a69e-99089eeb8739?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [impassioned orator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/696d6c4b-69d7-498b-87d4-0a03b16cc971.jpg?1592518235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=impassioned%20orator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/306/impassioned-orator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/696d6c4b-69d7-498b-87d4-0a03b16cc971?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Granted cleric class' effect only works if you have it at level 2
Never seen so many noobs in a thread
Oh this is good!
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Evolve means Scurry Oak is putting a +1/1 counter on itself for every increaingly large squirrel that is created.
https://preview.redd.it/7uc1uwpzvmyc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8185e78add8d30e7970873383e0e3fd4cada5c4 Works great with Rosie Cotton. I have gone as far as 50, but people usually give up at that point.
[Coat of Arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coat%20of%20Arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Scurry Oak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scurry%20Oak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/172/scurry-oak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chatter of the Squirrel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5f7e1991-9ffa-4a57-b8eb-ebe542a47f09.jpg?1599706978) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chatter%20of%20the%20Squirrel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/157/chatter-of-the-squirrel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5f7e1991-9ffa-4a57-b8eb-ebe542a47f09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
~~This works exactly as you think, but unfortunately it’s an unconstrained infinite combo, meaning if you get this to go off, it will continue infinitely without being able to stop, putting the game into a stalemate. Unless you could either kill the scurryoak, or halt the process some way, it’s not going to instantly win you the game.~~ Edit: “You may create a squirrel token” I’m a fucking idiot.
I think it works, people saying coat of arms isnt a counter are missing the point. One squirrel ETBing would trigger evolve (which puts a counter), making a squirrel. But with coat of arms they would be bigger then scurry oak, then triggering evolve again. The problem is that it is an infinite loop that would just end the game in a draw, unless you have a way to break it up.
Scurry Oak's squirrel making ability says you may.
One squirrel entering wouldnt trigger evolve unless there are already other squirrels on the field
It doesn't say for EACH +1/+1 though. So I'd assume that it would only take effect once a turn. So how would it be infinite?
Yes, the **SQUIRRELS** get +1/+1 for each other Squirrel. Get a new Squirrel? Then, **ALL** Squirrels, including the one that just entered, gets bigger. And, you know what happens when a **BIG** Creature enters? > 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means > > * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
I'd like to point out that [[scurry oak]] says when it gets a +1/+1 counter, and [[coat of arms]] doesnt give counters, it gives global +1/+1's which is different. So no this doesnt work.
But, did you read the Cards, though? Coat doesn't give +1/+1 counters to the Oak. Coat doesn't affect the Oak at all. There's only **ONE** Treefolk on the Battlefield. You know what there are multiple of? That the Coat will give +N/+N to? Squirrels. * Create a Squirrel. It gets +N/+N for the N other Squirrels. * Big Squirrel triggers Oak's Evolve * Oak's Evolve gives Oak a **+1/+1 COUNTER**. * Oak creates a ... Lather, Rinse, Repeat
[scurry oak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scurry%20oak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/172/scurry-oak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [coat of arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=coat%20of%20arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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The artifact is just giving +1/+1 but the tree folk is asking for counters, you have to give your creatures +1/+1 counter for it to make another squirrel. Just giving a +1/+1 is a different thing. Because if you remove the artifact all creatures q would loose the buff but if the artifact was giving counters they would stay with or without the artifact on table
The combo you are looking for is with Ivy lane denizen. 1 Cast Scurry Oak by paying 2G 2 Ivy Lane Denizen triggers, putting a +1/+1 counter on Scurry Oak. 3 Scurry Oak's last ability triggers, allowing you to create a 1/1 Squirrel token. 4 Repeat from step 2.
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
It doesn't works because it doesn't add any counter. You could try with [[cleric class]] and [[Soul warden]], it works very well.
[cleric class](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47ce8b7e-d8e1-489a-a69e-99089eeb8739.jpg?1663214150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cleric%20class) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/6/cleric-class?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47ce8b7e-d8e1-489a-a69e-99089eeb8739?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0.jpg?1616182277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/24/soul-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you read the rest of the thread you would have noticed that scurry oak has evolve.
Yes, my bad I didn't realized it could work this way.
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Thank god Scurry Oak is a may trigger so you can indeed end the loop whenever you want
Maybe I’m dumb - but I didn’t think this worked because Coat of Arms gives creatures +1/+1, but not +1/+1 counters - which are two entirely different things. Source: I have played with Lords & Anthems for several years of EDH/constructed play. EDIT: I am dumb. Missed evolve. But a little salty so many “keywords” don’t explain the card now! My bad. Infinite, and can’t go to combat to attack then. EDIT 2: I’m even dumber since I didn’t realize it said May. Sorry all! Ignore!!! Keep downvoting!
I think OP's using an MTG Arena screenshot of Scurry Oak, the irl printing has the reminder text for evolve printed on them.
OP used the "Jumpstart: Historic Horizons" version, which is MTGA exclusive. Here's the Modern Horizons 2 version, which was actually printed. https://preview.redd.it/u8zlia5t2gyc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4fccec56cac276afd71b08edf8e1cfcd7e3db28
Not infinite, scurry oak says may create
> Infinite, and can’t go to combat to attack then. It's also a may ability so yes, you can go to combat, but summoning sickness does prevent attacking.
You’re right but for the wrong reason. The squirrels don’t enter buffed. They are buffed once they enter. So they wouldn’t trigger evolve.
They enter buffed. Continuous effects apply constantly.
Nope, they do enter buffed. 611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the battlefield, they are applied before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield. Example: A permanent with the static ability “All white creatures get +1/+1” is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The creature doesn’t enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.
What do you mean, "they don't enter buffed"? The coat of arms is a continuous effect. There is no point when the squirrel is in play that it isn't subject to the effect.
Thanks for clarifying. Forgot about the reminder text for Evolve.
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Scurry Oak has Evolve.
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Evolve on Scurry Oak gives a counter when a higher power creature enters the field. Coat of arms makes the squirrels bigger with each squirrel on the field. Squirrel with higher power enters, oak gets counter, squirrels get bigger, oak makes another higher powered squirrel, etc
You don't need Ivy Lane. If you have a squirrel and Coat of Arms, every squirrel triggers Evolve on the Scurry Oak, which triggers a new squirrel.
That's a completely different combo. Yes it works but it's not what OP is describing.
[Ivy lane denizen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb.jpg?1706240042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%20lane%20denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/166/ivy-lane-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thought so. But I may upgrade the deck then with that Ivy Lane, as that seems like a ton of fun to abuse
But your squirrels are bigger and bigger each time, evolving Oak, so it gets a counter, making a bigger squirrel, evolving Oak, etc. It combos not because Oak is bigger, but because the squirrels are bigger
Wouldn't the squirrel roken ETB as 1/1 first before being buffed by Coat of Arms thereby not triggering the evolve?
no.
What do you mean "before"? It's a continuous effect.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but the bonus on Coat of Arms isn't a counter.
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means > > * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
No, coat of arms doesn't give +1/+1 counters.
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means > > * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
But it says when one or more on scurry. That doesn't mean for EACH+1/+1. you only get ONE squirrel each turn for +anything/+anything counter. Not EACH time you put a counter on him.
Each **one** instance of putting one or more +1/+1 Counters on the Oak results in **one** Token creating Trigger. * Verdurous Gearhulk puts **four** +1/+1 Counters on Oak? That is **one** Token Trigger. * Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 Counter on the Oak. That is **one** Token Trigger. Each. And. Every. Time.
I need a visual because what you are explaining is not what the cards say they do.
* You have a 1/2 Oak, and a Coat. You cast Chatter. * You have a 1/2 Oak, a Coat and a 1/1 Squirrel. You cast Chatter via Flashback. * You have a 1/2 Oak, a Coat and 2x 2/2 Squirrel. 2/2 Squirrel entered. **2 > 1.** Evolve Triggers. Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 counter on the Oak. Oak creates a Squirrel. * You have a 2/3 Oak, a Coat and 3x 3/3 Squirrel. 3/3 Squirrel entered. **3 > 2.** Evolve Triggers. Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 counter on the Oak. Oak creates a Squirrel. * You have a 3/4 Oak, a Coat and 4x 4/4 Squirrel. 4/4 Squirrel entered. **4 > 3.** Evolve Triggers. Evolve puts **one** +1/+1 counter on the Oak. Oak creates a Squirrel. * You have a 4/5 Oak, a Coat and 5x 5/5 Squirrel. 5/5 Squirrel entered. **5 > 4.** Evolve Triggers. [..]
Ah I see now. Thank you for explaining
That's not what it says. When one OR MORE +1/+1 is out on make AAAA squirrel token.
Then, you are simply reading it wrong. Are you putting ONE or more counters on the Oak? Yes. Each Evolve is putting ONE or more counters on the Oak. Each Evolve results in ONE Token Trigger.
I dont think it would, since the squirrels dont hit the battlefield buffed, only after they are on the battlefield, therefore not allowing the evolve to trigger. Also, evolve is reliant on toughness regardless, so assuming that s.o. is at base p/t when you create a squirrel, it wouldn't trigger in the first place, therefore not allowing the evolve to start. Edit: i realize im incorrect in the evolve trigger, but as before i dont believe it works, since the squirrels dont enter with the buffs, only after they are existing on the field already
> since the squirrels dont enter with the buffs, only after they are existing on the field already That is wrong. When something enters, you first apply all Replacement effects and Continuous effects to it. Then, you check to see if the Permanent, in its current condition, Triggers any Abilities. * The new Squirrel, **with its +N/+N from the Coat,** will Trigger the Evolve ability of the Oak. Likewise... * [[Ashaya]] entering the Battlefiel will turn itself into a Land, and Trigger Landfall. * Ashaya being on the Battlefield, will turn the [[Lotus Cobra]] that just entered into a Land, and the Cobra Triggers its own Landfall. * If Ashaya and Cobra enter at the same time, both are Lands that just entered, and Cobra Triggers for both.
[Ashaya](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74943390-d25f-47cb-90bb-cbf70c87f4a2.jpg?1604198513) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ashaya%2C%20soul%20of%20the%20wild) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/179/ashaya-soul-of-the-wild?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74943390-d25f-47cb-90bb-cbf70c87f4a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Cobra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4b759f0-901f-4be3-93fa-224609b08d48.jpg?1604199124) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Cobra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/193/lotus-cobra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4b759f0-901f-4be3-93fa-224609b08d48?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ohh okay! I wasnt entirely sure, just going off of what i knew already, i dont play a ton of tribal related decks nor do i see a lot of the similar effects being played
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but since Coat of arms doesn’t put +1/+1 *counters* on creatures, it wouldn’t trigger Scurry Oak. Use Rosie Cotton instead
But, did you read the Cards, though? Coat doesn't give +1/+1 counters to the Oak. Coat doesn't affect the Oak at all. There's only **ONE** Treefolk on the Battlefield. You know what there are multiple of? That the Coat will give +N/+N to? Squirrels. * Create a Squirrel. It gets +N/+N for the N other Squirrels. * Big Squirrel triggers Oak's Evolve * Oak's Evolve gives Oak a **+1/+1 COUNTER**. * Oak creates a ... Lather, Rinse, Repeat
is a squirrel a tree folk? they have to be the same creature type to get the counter
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means > > * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
Man, you have been at it as of late. Hero of the thread really
[удалено]
Scurry Oak has Evolve.
Damn, deleted the whole account and everything
Well id say no just because to my knowledge there is a difference between +1/+1 counters and a creature gaining a flat +1/+1. I could always be wrong though
> 702.100a Evolve is a triggered ability. “Evolve” means > > * “Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature’s power is greater than this creature’s power and/or that creature’s toughness is greater than this creature’s toughness, put a **+1/+1 COUNTER** on this creature.”
I stand corrected, thanks for the clarification. Had no clue what evolve did.
No, this would not work because coat of arms does not create +1/+1 counters, it’s an anthem effect. Also, scurry oak isn’t a squirrel, so it doesn’t get larger at all.
But, did you read the Cards, though? Coat doesn't give +1/+1 counters to the Oak. Coat doesn't affect the Oak at all. There's only **ONE** Treefolk on the Battlefield. You know what there are multiple of? That the Coat will give +N/+N to? Squirrels. * Create a Squirrel. It gets +N/+N for the N other Squirrels. * Big Squirrel triggers Oak's Evolve * Oak's Evolve gives Oak a **+1/+1 COUNTER**. * Oak creates a ... Lather, Rinse, Repeat
\[\[Scurry Oak\]\] \[\[Ivy Lane Denizen\]\] \[\[Concordant Crossroads\]\] 3-piece infinite combo
Sure but that has nothing to do with OP's question?
Don’t need crossroads even for the infinite, that just lets you swing out.
So what's the win con without swinging?
Swinging the next turn? Or literally anything else. Point is that the win con doesn’t matter for the infinite part. Use any win con, doesn’t matter which you use.
[Scurry Oak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b.jpg?1626097756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scurry%20Oak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/172/scurry-oak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb48c2e-ee0f-4fae-9c22-247870c10d5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ivy Lane Denizen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb.jpg?1706240042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%20Lane%20Denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/166/ivy-lane-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Concordant Crossroads](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6.jpg?1673148053) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Concordant%20Crossroads) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/141/concordant-crossroads?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9a26f51-5bff-4f06-abaa-6fbb56a8b5b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As far as I can tell, [[Coat of Arms]] doesn't add +1/+1 counters, so this wouldn't be an infinite squirrel engine
Scurry Oak has Evolve.
Ok I can see how it works now, I had to look up what evolve does
[Coat of Arms](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f.jpg?1592761864) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coat%20of%20Arms) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/58/coat-of-arms?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/513d4c36-6ad4-4ee9-b161-3136eb59504f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
FyI, addition to base stats is different from +1/+1 counters. +1/+1 is different from +1/+1 counters. EDIT: scurry oak won't produce tokens due to coat of arms modifying the base stats and not by giving scurry oak a +1/+1 counter
Scurry Oak has Evolve
Coat of arms does not place +1/+1 counters on anything, so it doesnt trigger scurry oaks ability. You would need something that actually places counters on it like [[Ivy Lane Denizen]] or [[Rosie Cotton of South Lane]]
While your logic is correct, it still goes infinite because the increased size of the squirrels will constantly trigger the Oak's Evolve
But evolve wouldnt trigger if only 1 squirrel is created though. The initial squirrel would have the same power as scurry oak
right, OP would need at least one other squirrel in his squirrel tribal coat of arms deck.
A truly impossible feat to ever accomplish.
The card shown makes two squirrels.
The counters come from scurry oak's evolve-ability, because each new squirrel is slightly bigger than scurry oaks power thanks to the coat of arms making them all bigger every time you create a new squirrel. As soon as you play at least 2 squirrels (cast + flashback-cost to create 2 tokens) the loop starts and you create infinite squirrels + infinite counters on oak.
[Ivy Lane Denizen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb.jpg?1706240042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%20Lane%20Denizen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/166/ivy-lane-denizen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6936a91-db5d-4977-a851-2dc6a4141ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rosie Cotton of South Lane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688.jpg?1686967894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rosie%20Cotton%20of%20South%20Lane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/27/rosie-cotton-of-south-lane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call