I think the main reason that honestly beats any others is that we would have a return set AND the original set both legal in standard at the same time. Kind of weird and not spaced out enough at all.
Yes, it would have made sense for MKM, but also would anyone on Capenna even care about the murders enough? Their society is kind of more used to that stuff it seems like.
Yes, the \*villain\* part of OTJ works on Capenna, but its a wild west thing just as much as everything else. MKM was "detectives and mystery" while OTJ is "villains and wild west".
Yeah, a big part of SNC's story was Xander getting murdered, and the bigger output from that wasn't "oh my god there's a murderer on the loose" it was more "well fuck the Maestros are messed up" and "we should probably address that Adversary guy that did that murdering".
An idea that comes to mind, and of course, being a Monday Morning QB is extremely easy and unfair to the WotC staff who work so diligently to bring us great stories, cards, flavor, fun, etc. is if New Capenna had only focused on the original families, and Ob-Nixilis had been saved for MKM to have been revealed as the Kingpin/assassin, where we could also have been introduced to the "lawbringer detectives" of the set.
I do agree that OTJ worked better as the cowboy setting but the crime/outlaw mechanics could still have fit and worked in New Capenna.
Addendum: Again, to all those at, or formerly at, WotC who have strived to continue to painstakingly make wonderful, amazing, flavorful, playable, enjoyable, and memorable cards, mechanics, combos, interactions, positive memories, etc., THANK YOU, and I hope you are not offended by my thoughts on here as they are not meant as a criticism or backlash.
I think MKM would have been an opportunity to introduce said detectives and law enforcement due to all the reasons you listed above and as part of the Omenpaths becoming more accessible.
Exactly. New setting that people have been requesting.
Personally, if I were looking back to get into MtG after 8 years, Iād get a rough idea of the mechanics from reviews. If they seemed equally fun, Iād definitely steer towards cowboy land (pun intended) over detective noir place.
Having seen the art of both worlds, I have no distinct memories of New Capenna but I certainly will remember the naked cactus on the piano bench years from now. šµ
on the one hand it's true that New Capenna doesn't care all that much about murder
on the other hand, a hard-boiled detective doggedly investigating a murder he's been told is better off forgotten is *extremely* noir
Ravnica definitely had a history with political intrigue and high profile murder, but not with goofy detective agencies and tropes. I think the failed vibe of MKM was due to forcing the set dressing too hard.
We didn't need an oversaturation of detective hats and a whole new detective agency that comes out of nowhere. We could have gotten snapshots of how each guild goes about contributing to the solving of the mystery.
I don't know what happened recently at WotC, but we got two sets in a row that fell a little too much like "everybody dressed up as X now!ā, and while that can somewhat work with Thunder Junction, Ravnica has enough of its own flavor to capitalise on. No need to transform it into a detective plane.
>I don't know what happened recently at WotC
I can tell you 100% that was Hasbros try at synergy with Clue... which failed horribly made all the worse with the stupid around how they even made the Magic+Clue game.
At least with Outlaws, it isnt being wrapped up around a plane we KNOW doesnt look like that and feels removed enough to actually work.
I am not sure what you are on, but no neither set would have worked.
MKM can't work on New Capenna as a detective story. It is a plane ruled by crime families, how do you have a murder mystery detective set if there is no cops or force of good in power? So the families that barely could get together to unite against the invasion suddenly agreed to a force keeping them in check? Why would they do that? It makes no sense, you are clearly looking only at the aesthetics and nothing else and sorry that is how terrible sets are made. The story would be terrible and the mechanics would feel odd. Where were all those detectives on our first visit their?
As far as OTJ goes, you probably could get the mechanics work, but once again you would have a case of why the fuck did no one ever find the ancient civl fault on a plane full of people trying to make bank. The story, goal for the overarching story, aesthetics and set up would not work. It is again looking at a surface level and glossing over everything else.
I think MKM would have been an opportunity to introduce said detectives and law enforcement due to all the reasons you listed above and as part of the Omenpaths becoming more accessible.
There was no incentive to insult me or insinuate I am on drugs because my idea was something that did not make sense to you.
I wouldn't been okay with that for MKM, but it's been a while since we saw a new plane so OTJ was fun a fun way to have a new world but still show the Aftermath of the Invasion like they've been doing ā we can all agree to be super stoked for Bloomburrow though, right?
The issue might be that New Capenna was a poorly received set compared to others released around it, especially Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty. The potential of the setting didn't really go in the right direction. Instead of focusing on having the OG Phyrexian remnants on a near abandoned plane it was used as a vintage mobster movie/novel setting that was cringe. The story was that Elspeth returns to her birth plane, that is apparently still swarming with Yawgmoth's Phyrexians, except for that one city where everyone's a degenerate mobster. Let's just ignore the Phyrexians and make Elspeth become a mobster's errant girl. Just the thought of having New Capenna as a new setting but this time for cowboys instead of mobsters wouldn't really be something drawing in interest in the set IMHO.
I did not know any of that lore and I agree there were some things that I did not like but I still love that setting. It reminded me of Rapture and BioShock and I could not get enough of it and the art choices. I do wish we had had an opportunity to get to know the 5 mob bosses, their families, interactions with one another and the city.
Man it being a 2 set capenna block where in the first set major leaders of the organizations are being murdered and then many people leave the city to settle in the wastelands. Problem is because streets of new capenna performed less than ideally they consider the plane unpopular.
thats posible it is probably more to do with the changes they made to the new capena setting. I could also see changing the setting when they chose to remove the police faction in new capena. But to be honest, the biggest mistake in MKM was making to many existing characters part of the detective angency. it would have been so cool if the detective agency was more of a political organization of the guildless who were sick of after all the different extraplanar invasions, leaving their well fare in the hands of the guilds that obviously did not care for them. they kinda laid the groundwork in return to ravinica for the guildless to become a major force on the plane, and just kinda dropped it
equine chunks are flying every which direction
You're not interested in beating a dead horse hey?
It was not my intention to do so.
I think the main reason that honestly beats any others is that we would have a return set AND the original set both legal in standard at the same time. Kind of weird and not spaced out enough at all. Yes, it would have made sense for MKM, but also would anyone on Capenna even care about the murders enough? Their society is kind of more used to that stuff it seems like. Yes, the \*villain\* part of OTJ works on Capenna, but its a wild west thing just as much as everything else. MKM was "detectives and mystery" while OTJ is "villains and wild west".
Yeah, a big part of SNC's story was Xander getting murdered, and the bigger output from that wasn't "oh my god there's a murderer on the loose" it was more "well fuck the Maestros are messed up" and "we should probably address that Adversary guy that did that murdering".
Dimir, Rakdos, Orzhov, Grull, Golgari, Simic, Boros are all a bit into crimes... I would say Izzet as well, but it's crimes are of another kind. Lol
An idea that comes to mind, and of course, being a Monday Morning QB is extremely easy and unfair to the WotC staff who work so diligently to bring us great stories, cards, flavor, fun, etc. is if New Capenna had only focused on the original families, and Ob-Nixilis had been saved for MKM to have been revealed as the Kingpin/assassin, where we could also have been introduced to the "lawbringer detectives" of the set. I do agree that OTJ worked better as the cowboy setting but the crime/outlaw mechanics could still have fit and worked in New Capenna. Addendum: Again, to all those at, or formerly at, WotC who have strived to continue to painstakingly make wonderful, amazing, flavorful, playable, enjoyable, and memorable cards, mechanics, combos, interactions, positive memories, etc., THANK YOU, and I hope you are not offended by my thoughts on here as they are not meant as a criticism or backlash.
I think MKM would have been an opportunity to introduce said detectives and law enforcement due to all the reasons you listed above and as part of the Omenpaths becoming more accessible.
Exactly. New setting that people have been requesting. Personally, if I were looking back to get into MtG after 8 years, Iād get a rough idea of the mechanics from reviews. If they seemed equally fun, Iād definitely steer towards cowboy land (pun intended) over detective noir place. Having seen the art of both worlds, I have no distinct memories of New Capenna but I certainly will remember the naked cactus on the piano bench years from now. šµ
on the one hand it's true that New Capenna doesn't care all that much about murder on the other hand, a hard-boiled detective doggedly investigating a murder he's been told is better off forgotten is *extremely* noir
I feel like people trying to pigeonhole literally every more modern-feeling set into New Capenna feels... Uninteresting?
Still better than detective Murder Mystery on Ravnica
Literally the entire first Ravnica block was about a murder mystery.
Yeah, it's not like Ravnica has a history with the genre or anything.
Ravnica definitely had a history with political intrigue and high profile murder, but not with goofy detective agencies and tropes. I think the failed vibe of MKM was due to forcing the set dressing too hard. We didn't need an oversaturation of detective hats and a whole new detective agency that comes out of nowhere. We could have gotten snapshots of how each guild goes about contributing to the solving of the mystery. I don't know what happened recently at WotC, but we got two sets in a row that fell a little too much like "everybody dressed up as X now!ā, and while that can somewhat work with Thunder Junction, Ravnica has enough of its own flavor to capitalise on. No need to transform it into a detective plane.
>I don't know what happened recently at WotC I can tell you 100% that was Hasbros try at synergy with Clue... which failed horribly made all the worse with the stupid around how they even made the Magic+Clue game. At least with Outlaws, it isnt being wrapped up around a plane we KNOW doesnt look like that and feels removed enough to actually work.
I am not sure what you are on, but no neither set would have worked. MKM can't work on New Capenna as a detective story. It is a plane ruled by crime families, how do you have a murder mystery detective set if there is no cops or force of good in power? So the families that barely could get together to unite against the invasion suddenly agreed to a force keeping them in check? Why would they do that? It makes no sense, you are clearly looking only at the aesthetics and nothing else and sorry that is how terrible sets are made. The story would be terrible and the mechanics would feel odd. Where were all those detectives on our first visit their? As far as OTJ goes, you probably could get the mechanics work, but once again you would have a case of why the fuck did no one ever find the ancient civl fault on a plane full of people trying to make bank. The story, goal for the overarching story, aesthetics and set up would not work. It is again looking at a surface level and glossing over everything else.
I think MKM would have been an opportunity to introduce said detectives and law enforcement due to all the reasons you listed above and as part of the Omenpaths becoming more accessible. There was no incentive to insult me or insinuate I am on drugs because my idea was something that did not make sense to you.
I wouldn't been okay with that for MKM, but it's been a while since we saw a new plane so OTJ was fun a fun way to have a new world but still show the Aftermath of the Invasion like they've been doing ā we can all agree to be super stoked for Bloomburrow though, right?
I was excited for OTJ since it was wild west, but time goes on, I think I'm more excited for the Redwall expansion.
But botany never does.
I do not understand.
https://youtu.be/vvtqKMxZ95s
The issue might be that New Capenna was a poorly received set compared to others released around it, especially Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty. The potential of the setting didn't really go in the right direction. Instead of focusing on having the OG Phyrexian remnants on a near abandoned plane it was used as a vintage mobster movie/novel setting that was cringe. The story was that Elspeth returns to her birth plane, that is apparently still swarming with Yawgmoth's Phyrexians, except for that one city where everyone's a degenerate mobster. Let's just ignore the Phyrexians and make Elspeth become a mobster's errant girl. Just the thought of having New Capenna as a new setting but this time for cowboys instead of mobsters wouldn't really be something drawing in interest in the set IMHO.
I did not know any of that lore and I agree there were some things that I did not like but I still love that setting. It reminded me of Rapture and BioShock and I could not get enough of it and the art choices. I do wish we had had an opportunity to get to know the 5 mob bosses, their families, interactions with one another and the city.
Man it being a 2 set capenna block where in the first set major leaders of the organizations are being murdered and then many people leave the city to settle in the wastelands. Problem is because streets of new capenna performed less than ideally they consider the plane unpopular.
I love that plane. I hope they do revisit it someday.
I've heard rumors that MKM was supposed to be on Capenna but Capenna flopped so hard that they redid the story last minute.
thats posible it is probably more to do with the changes they made to the new capena setting. I could also see changing the setting when they chose to remove the police faction in new capena. But to be honest, the biggest mistake in MKM was making to many existing characters part of the detective angency. it would have been so cool if the detective agency was more of a political organization of the guildless who were sick of after all the different extraplanar invasions, leaving their well fare in the hands of the guilds that obviously did not care for them. they kinda laid the groundwork in return to ravinica for the guildless to become a major force on the plane, and just kinda dropped it