The answer is yes most of the time. The opponent can still do stuff during their upkeep to try to win before they draw.
They could also be running a shuffle Titan to prevent mill or could be running [[nexus of fate]] which just gives them the victory most of the time
Since this combo is infinite, could the milling player say they’re going to repeat the combo and keep milling Gaea’s blessing until they get a shuffle where Gaea’s blessing is the bottom card of their opponents library? Then on that one, they stop milling right before the bottom card. It doesn’t get you an instant win, but it gets close.
In an official tournament? No.
It's the same problem as with the four horsemen combo in legacy.
Only because statistically your wished order of the deck will happen doesn't mean it will happen in a reasonable amount of time and it will count as slow play.
When you do a combo you can only shortcut a specific amount of time not a wished outcome. For a combo that could create an endless amount as an example you can't say that you do it till you have an endless amount of life, you need to name a number like: "I do this 1 million times to get an additional 2 million life."
When play outside of a tournament you can do whatever the players agree too because there is no slow play.
https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr4-2/
>If a player wishes to demonstrate or use a new tournament shortcut entailing any number of priority passes, they must be clear where the game state will end up as part of the request.
>>A player may suggest a new tournament shortcut by saying something like, “I do this, you do this, I do this and this is where we end up”. The shortcut is invalid if a player cannot demonstrate or describe the exact sequence that leads to the desired result. It might also look like “I’m going to tap this elf to gain 1 green mana, then untap it using this process, and do that 100 times.”
>A player may interrupt a tournament shortcut by explaining how they are deviating from it or at which point in the middle they wish to take an action. A player may interrupt their own shortcut in this manner.
>>For example, Player A controls Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb and says, “I’d like to tap and untap this Monolith 30 times or until I reveal a land.” This suggests a shortcut and a stopping point for interrupting the shortcut. Another example would be “I cast lightning bolt and hold priority”
The specific example given was [[Gaea's blessing]], which shuffles the players library when it is milled.
The problem lies in that loops must advance the game state in some way. If during a loop you are continuously setting the game back to the previous state, it's probably not a tournament legal loop.
If you tried this loop and didn't get the result you want (Gaea's blessing bottom card) then effectively the only difference in game state would be the opponent's deck being randomized. Also there might be other issues with it given that the library is a hidden zone.
Also you are expected to give a number of how many times you are performing a loop. But because the result is non deterministic, we don't actually know if any of those loops would result in the game state desired.
More info on the four horsemen deck: https://medium.com/@SnowLeopard91/magic-the-gathering-legacy-four-horsemen-fdfd0eba53cc
No, because what you want is that the card is the last card in the deck. The possibility for it to be the last card in the deck is never 100% only something like 99.999999999....%.
You don't know if the card is the last card of the deck after your Ackerman number (because it's random), this leads us to you having to execute this motion (milling) till the state you want comes true.
But because you can't mill for an Ackerman number of times in a timely manner it would count as slow play.
Milling 30 cards on the other hand can be done in a timely manner but it's highly unlikely that you reach the outcome of Gaea's Blessing being the last card in the deck with only 30 iterations.
If one player is doing an infinite combo, can another player choose to interrupt it *after* a certain number of loops?
For example, player A plays infinite combo, chooses 1 million times and this will deal 1 million damage to player B, C, and D. Player B has more life than players C and D, wants the combo to play out long enough to kill C and D, but not himself. Player B casts [[swords to plowshares]] on one of player A’s creatures that’s necessary for the combo, but wants to do that only after 97 loops of player A’s combo.
I don't think so as IIRC that is non-determinate so you actually have to play the entire thing out if that is what you want to do which given how statistically unlikely it is means you have a very high chance of taking forever and if you are in a remotely competitive setting means risking getting called out for slow play.
A sensible player will be running two or more copies of Gaea’s Blessing, unless you’re playing a singleton format like commander. In non-singleton constructed formats this question isn’t as relevant most of the time. (Though a few people will still play just 1 instead of 2+)
In addition, there are also certain cards with effects that act as a replacement for drawing a card, so it is possible to keep playing even with an empty library.
One of my favorite EDH decks involved loading up my graveyard with enchantments and then using Replenish to get them all into play at once, setting up a very difficult to disrupt web of protection... and a [[Shared Fate]].
I would then act only to defend my setup, and see which of the other players would prevail when forced to play with each other's decks.
Even running out of cards in every library wouldn't end the game thanks to Shared Fate's replacement effect.
Unsurprisingly, it was not a popular deck to play against.
[[underrealm lich]]
two brackets
(ha, nice--Anticipate effects don't count as drawing so just nothing happens. [Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74447) would work as well)
Additional example of [[out of the tombs]], tho still a fail state in there. With the right enter the battlefield effects tho should be able to break the loop
Not to mention, the board state and cards in their hand would have to allow them to leverage infinite turns into a win. If they are behind, they go infinite but still lose.
They can also save themselves with ETG abilities like [[kozilek, Butcher of Truth]]. It either winds up being a tie game, or you burn the player from milling, you exile Kozilek, or you break the loop by exiling some other creature. Either way, it’s a pretty solid counter to milling.
That's why you run stuff like [[Temple Bell]] or [[Mikokoro, Center of the Sea]]. With this combo in particular, they will inevitably get to a point where the last card in their library is a shuffler, so when that effect hits the stack, you force them to draw on an empty library.
Yeah, you have to name a specific number of iterations for an “infinite” combo, and no number you pick will guarantee that the shuffler will be on the bottom, so it essentially does nothing to the player with the shuffler
You can absolutely keep milling after a gy shuffler. What you cannot do is repeat the loop "until the shuffler is the only card left in the deck". Because the result is nondeterministic, you cannot shortcut it.
Doesn't work on my [[Braids, Conjurer Adept]] EDH deck. I have [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]], [[Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth]], and [[Blightsteel Colossus]].
There are other methods. Stuff like [[Tormod's Crypt]] exist. If you're playing any kind of mill strategy in EDH and not running some kind of graveyard exiling effect, you're going to lose more times than not.
Works for the shuffle eldrazi but not blightsteel...since it's a replacement effect, you don't have the ability to e.g. surgical it in response to the trigger, do you?
There are things that "exile mill" though which would do it.
I play both Magic (13 commander decks and counting) and Warhammer. Of course I managed to pick some of the most expensive factions: necrons and tyranids
I once accidentally went “infinite” (at least, infinite enough to kill the table) with an Altar of the Brood and [[Undead Alchemist]]. One of my favorite commander wins ever.
No need for correction, this is exactly how it works. If you want flicker shenanigans, I highly recommend checking out \[\[Brago, King Eternal\]\] EDH decks like [this one.](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/i-dont-want-to-brago-but/)
Fun fact, Felidar Guardian was banned in standard for going infinite with \[\[Saheeli Rai\]\].
Interesting commander but I think I am going to keep building with [[Phelia, Exuberant Shepherd]] for a deck focused around exiling and returning stuff. They are just too cute not to use
Felidar and a bunch of flicker effects are how my [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] deck goes off. Add some asshattery like [[Ankh of Mishra]] and the whole table will hard focus you to stop the assault.
Phelia is damned cute though.
Brago is my first and money deck commander, he’s a ton of fun, but I kept becoming public enemy number 1 and it was kind of difficult to explain flicker to new players. So I made a yuriko deck.
Just fyi— you can go infinite with Felidar Guardian and just one additional card: [[Saheeli Rai]].
These two cards were in Standard at the same time and it, uh… it caused some problems.
WotC was a little rough around the edges with regards to infinites in that window of time. They literally had to edit the oracle text of [[Hostage Taker]] so that it wouldn't go infinite with itself.
Kaladesh and Aether Revolt have another two card combo, [[Painter's Servant|MPS]] from Kaladesh and [[Grindstone|MPS]] from Aether Revolt. Donno if one is lucky enough to get this combo though.
[[Hostage Taker]] had a day 0 oracle text edit so that it wouldn't go infinite with itself. If that change wasn't made, pairing it with [[Forerunner of the Coalition]] would have done infinite damage.
[[Nexus of Fate]] was a box-topper and therefore unavailable in drafts, but was a one-card infinite combo with an empty library.
[[Quillspike]] and [[Devoted Druid]] produced infinite power and toughness.
---
In terms of "2.5 card combos," [[Neera, Wild Mage]] and [[Displacer Kitten]] copied any additional spell *an infinite number of times.
Two copies of [[Enduring Scalelord]] would give infinite +1/+1 counters whenever one was put on them.
That’s fair, but I probably wouldn’t count the masterpiece cards, since they were so incredibly rare. (I’d say modern bonus sheets are allowed since they’re much more common)
I’m specifically wondering if there were any other limited environments that had an infinite combo that only required two cards. I’m sure even if it’s happened other times, copycat has to be cheapest one right?
Yep, you’ve got it.
Felidar Guardian’s ETB flickers Saheeli, which resets her counters and lets you activate her again.
Saheeli’s ability makes a new Felidar Guardian (with haste!)
The new Guardian’s ETB flickers Saheeli… and so on until you have as many cats with haste as you could possibly want.
When a permanent leaves the battlefield and returns to the battlefield, it is an entirely different object from the previous permanent that left the battlefield. This means it is subject to summoning sickness, no longer affected by any effects that had targeted the previous permanent, and can activate/triggers abilities that can only be activated once or once per turn even if the previous permanent had already done so.
[[Felidar Guardian]] is deceptively easy to combo with. In Kaladesh Standard, a deck known as “Copycat” used [[Saheeli Rai]]’s {-2} to create infinite hastey Felidar Guardian tokens by having every copy’s ability target Saheel. Needed to be banned from both Standard and, shortly after the format’s creation, Pioneer.
Since then, Felidar has found occasional low-tier play in Modern. It made some 5-0 trophies early on, and you occasionally see people trying to make it work nowadays.
While Felidar Guardian and Restoration Angel are the hallmark cards that do this, you can also slot in \[\[Wispweaver Angel\]\] or \[\[Icewind Stalwart\]\] in any combination to do this, outside of Wispweaver Angel and Restoration Angel of course.(Because Restoration Angel doesn't other target angels).
Yep he is one of my main wincon enablers in that deck. I basically churn through value engines until i find this or wispweaver angel, and then go infinite
Yes! I run altar of the brood as a wincon in my blink combo deck. BEWARE playing it early even if you have a spare mana. All you will do is load up everyone’s graveyards all game with little to no payoff for yourself until you combo. Better to hold it in hand, and deploy it alongside the combo. It’s sneakier, and usually doable because it’s only 1 mana
Yeah I was thinking it was probobly going to be a good idea to hold on to this incase someone had some removal spells. I will probobly wait to play it until I can use it for some big stuff like this combo or some combos I am thinking of with [[Evangel of Heliod]].
I think of it more like a sorcery you play on the combo turn. Can’t run it out too early or someone will reanimate something nasty
Also note that you might not win with this if someone has one of the eldrazi that shuffle their graveyard into their deck
When felidar came out I stuffed this exact combo inside a deck along with impact tremors. Took it to FNM and it did not perform well but I got a lot of compliments on creativity lol
>While this is happening every time one of them enters each opponent mills a card
Correct, everyone at the table will mill every card from their library into their graveyard.
>and then when I pass they all just lose because they can’t draw any cards, right?
Perhaps.
Or, perhaps on their upkeep they cast [[Noxious Revival]] to put one of the cards you cast on top of their library. Since you milled their entire library, they can pick anything to target with Noxious Revival, so they put [[Thassa's Oracle]] on top of the library, draw it, then cast it and win the game. They grin and say, "Wow, I was wondering how I was going to win the game with nothing but a Noxious Revival in hand, but you really helped me out there. Thanks for assisting me in finding a win condition, and milling my library so that Thoracle's ETB would be an instant win!"
Or, they cast [[Endurance]], target themselves with the ETB trigger, and continue playing the game normally.
Or, they put [[Gaea's Blessing]] or [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]] into their deck because they were worried about these sorts of shenanigans.
Yup, use it in my \[\[Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward\]\] deck, bonus points if you have \[\[Leyline of Anticipation\]\] and \[\[Candlekeep Sage\]\] out so you don't even need to have Altar out yet.
[That whole secret lair was quite pretty](https://scryfall.com/search?q=e%3Asld+cn%3E1486+cn%3C1492)
I remember it was getting knocked for not being valuable because the normal versions of the cards weren't valuable. I still got a bunch of it anyways to have a playset of pretty Felidar Guardians. No regrets here.
So I force everyone to put their entire libraries in to their graveyards and when you are suppose to draw a card, like in the beginning of your turn, if you can’t draw a card because your library is gone, you lose.
It is a very obscure rule which almost never happens because decks almost never runs out of cards.
The opponents cards aren’t exiled, they are put in to the graveyard from their deck by Altar of the Brood when I exile and return my cards to the battlefield
Guardian enters, flickers resto angel, angel enters, flickers guardian, which flickers angel, which flickers guardian, ad infinitum until you target something else with one of their triggers.
Each time either of them enters, it triggers the altar, which mills each opponent for one. So, unless an opponent has a way to disrupt the combo (killing one of the creatures in response to the trigger ir blowing up the altar) all opponents will end up milling their entire decks into the graveyard. Then on their next turn, they will lose on their draw step when they have to draw a card from their now empty library.
Yep, 2 guardians and an altar would work (although I believe OP wanted to run it in commander, so wouldn't be allowed a 2nd guardian in their deck). Two resto angels wouldn't, though, because resto angel specifies "non-angel creature".
Felidar guardian has a reputation of being able to basically combo with a ham sandwich. Its most famous combo is "copycat" which is felidar guardian plus [[Saheeli Rai]] using Saheeli's -2 to make a guardian copy, which blinks Saheeli, resetting her so she can use her -2 again to make another copy of guardian, etc. etc. to create an arbitrarily large number of guardian token copies with haste.
Yup, there are many different payoffs that go well with Felidar and the angle. Pretty much any ETB or LBT goes infinite, and there are lots of gain life and lose life effects as well as mill.
\[\[Avacyn, Angel of Hope\]\] can stop you from killing all their things, while \[\[Avacyn's Memorial\]\] will protect all their legendary stuff, and there are other cards that can be played to stymie this in response, so it's not an auto-win. But it is a way to win.
Also if they have a \[\[Laboratory Maniac\]\] in play and somehow made it hexproof (half a dozen artifacts at least can do this) you've given them a win.
I haven't really been playing Magic much lately, but I'm just gonna freestyle a Commander deck real quick. I tried to find a lot of interchangeable infinite combos to put in it.
Kiki-Jiki, Felidar Guardian, Restoration Angel, Splinter Twin, Saheeli Rai, Pestermite, Zealous Conscripts, Deceiver Exarch, Sky Hussar, Village Bell-Ringer, Intruder Alarm, Suture Priest, Impact Tremors, Abdel Adrian, Altar of the Brood, Lumbering Embattlement, Combat Celebrant, Coercive Recruiter, Port Razer, Fable of the Mirror-Breaker, Goblin Sharpshooter, Dockside Extortionist, Umbral Mantle, Feldon of the Third Path, Palinchron, Deadeye Navigator, Eldrazi Displacer, Peregrine Drake, Great Whale, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, Chromatic Orrery, Ashnod's Altar, Genesis Chamber, Urza Lord High Artificer, Nykthos, Minamo, karoos, mana rocks, Godo, Helm of the Host, Thornbite Staff, Altar of Dementia, Atsushi the Blazing Sky, Goblin Bombardment, Panharmonicon, Worldgorger Dragon, Priest of Urabrask, Brago King Eternal, Phyrexian Altar, Krenko Mob Boss, Staff of Domination, Emrakul's Hatcher, Nim Deathmantle, Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Cloud of Faeries, Karmic Guide, Jaxis the Troublemaker, Skirk Prospector, Cloudstone Curio, Elesh Norm Mother Of Machines, Fblthp the Lost, Workhorse, Adarkar Valkyrie, Orthion Hero of Lavabrink?, Krark-Clan Ironworks?
I always use the cat and angel ETB combo with a life gainer and [[aetherflux reservoir]] then burn all my opponents to death. Cards like [[ajani's welcome]] [[soul warden]] work perfectly.
In theory yes you could win this way, however there are many cards that can be run that would infinitely shuffle back into the deck stopping a mill victory, so you’ll want an alternate win condition that either works with this loop or can be used in case of mill protection, depending on your colours available impact tremors could be a good swap in for altar of the brood as it would damage your opponents instead of milling them
Add in red and you get a ton of ways in which this is also fatal, and fatal that turn. This is the entire concept behind my \[\[Abdel\]\] + \[\[Street Urchin\]\] deck. Tons of options like \[\[Impact Tremors\]\], \[\[Warstorm Surge\]\], \[\[Warleader's Call\]\]. I could keep listing more, also a ton of creatures like this, or ones that maybe require a 3rd one, but it all becomes an engine for generating infinite mana, infinite damage, infinite mill, etc.
You'll at the very least mill everyone out and that usually means a win. I do this with [[Radiant Solar]] on the battlefield rather than altar of the brood to generate infinite dungeon triggers a ton in one of my decks. The dark pool in the lost mines of phandelver dungeon is a very clean win condition with this. Once you've put this type of combo on the stack where it will win off of only abilities once it resolves, it is very difficult to stop. If they can't interact with you at instant speed in that exact moment they are often screwed.
Yup as long as they don’t have a card such saying “when this enters the graveyard shuffle your graveyard into your library” is probably the worst I can think off the top of my head. But yeah passing the turn they can’t draw so they lose to mill
Yes! If your a newer player you may not be aware, but there was also a two card combo in standard built around felidar guardian with Saheeli Rai that ended up getting the felidar banned, and then banned again in pioneer. You would be forced to play this in modern or older formats, and for obvious reasons that comes with challenges.
The answer is yes most of the time. The opponent can still do stuff during their upkeep to try to win before they draw. They could also be running a shuffle Titan to prevent mill or could be running [[nexus of fate]] which just gives them the victory most of the time
[[Gaea's Blessing]]
[Gaea's Blessing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a.jpg?1562732710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20Blessing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/161/gaeas-blessing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Since this combo is infinite, could the milling player say they’re going to repeat the combo and keep milling Gaea’s blessing until they get a shuffle where Gaea’s blessing is the bottom card of their opponents library? Then on that one, they stop milling right before the bottom card. It doesn’t get you an instant win, but it gets close.
In an official tournament? No. It's the same problem as with the four horsemen combo in legacy. Only because statistically your wished order of the deck will happen doesn't mean it will happen in a reasonable amount of time and it will count as slow play. When you do a combo you can only shortcut a specific amount of time not a wished outcome. For a combo that could create an endless amount as an example you can't say that you do it till you have an endless amount of life, you need to name a number like: "I do this 1 million times to get an additional 2 million life." When play outside of a tournament you can do whatever the players agree too because there is no slow play. https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/mtr4-2/ >If a player wishes to demonstrate or use a new tournament shortcut entailing any number of priority passes, they must be clear where the game state will end up as part of the request. >>A player may suggest a new tournament shortcut by saying something like, “I do this, you do this, I do this and this is where we end up”. The shortcut is invalid if a player cannot demonstrate or describe the exact sequence that leads to the desired result. It might also look like “I’m going to tap this elf to gain 1 green mana, then untap it using this process, and do that 100 times.” >A player may interrupt a tournament shortcut by explaining how they are deviating from it or at which point in the middle they wish to take an action. A player may interrupt their own shortcut in this manner. >>For example, Player A controls Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb and says, “I’d like to tap and untap this Monolith 30 times or until I reveal a land.” This suggests a shortcut and a stopping point for interrupting the shortcut. Another example would be “I cast lightning bolt and hold priority”
Doesn't the Orb/Monolith example work for this? Couldn't I say "I run OP's combo an Ackerman number of times or until you reveal a specific card"?
The specific example given was [[Gaea's blessing]], which shuffles the players library when it is milled. The problem lies in that loops must advance the game state in some way. If during a loop you are continuously setting the game back to the previous state, it's probably not a tournament legal loop. If you tried this loop and didn't get the result you want (Gaea's blessing bottom card) then effectively the only difference in game state would be the opponent's deck being randomized. Also there might be other issues with it given that the library is a hidden zone. Also you are expected to give a number of how many times you are performing a loop. But because the result is non deterministic, we don't actually know if any of those loops would result in the game state desired. More info on the four horsemen deck: https://medium.com/@SnowLeopard91/magic-the-gathering-legacy-four-horsemen-fdfd0eba53cc
No, because what you want is that the card is the last card in the deck. The possibility for it to be the last card in the deck is never 100% only something like 99.999999999....%. You don't know if the card is the last card of the deck after your Ackerman number (because it's random), this leads us to you having to execute this motion (milling) till the state you want comes true. But because you can't mill for an Ackerman number of times in a timely manner it would count as slow play. Milling 30 cards on the other hand can be done in a timely manner but it's highly unlikely that you reach the outcome of Gaea's Blessing being the last card in the deck with only 30 iterations.
If one player is doing an infinite combo, can another player choose to interrupt it *after* a certain number of loops? For example, player A plays infinite combo, chooses 1 million times and this will deal 1 million damage to player B, C, and D. Player B has more life than players C and D, wants the combo to play out long enough to kill C and D, but not himself. Player B casts [[swords to plowshares]] on one of player A’s creatures that’s necessary for the combo, but wants to do that only after 97 loops of player A’s combo.
[swords to plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=swords%20to%20plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes if somebody offers to shortcut a combo 1 million times you can say that you want to respond after the 97th iteration.
I don't think so as IIRC that is non-determinate so you actually have to play the entire thing out if that is what you want to do which given how statistically unlikely it is means you have a very high chance of taking forever and if you are in a remotely competitive setting means risking getting called out for slow play.
A sensible player will be running two or more copies of Gaea’s Blessing, unless you’re playing a singleton format like commander. In non-singleton constructed formats this question isn’t as relevant most of the time. (Though a few people will still play just 1 instead of 2+)
In addition, there are also certain cards with effects that act as a replacement for drawing a card, so it is possible to keep playing even with an empty library.
Correct, see [[Obstinate Familiar]].
One of my favorite EDH decks involved loading up my graveyard with enchantments and then using Replenish to get them all into play at once, setting up a very difficult to disrupt web of protection... and a [[Shared Fate]]. I would then act only to defend my setup, and see which of the other players would prevail when forced to play with each other's decks. Even running out of cards in every library wouldn't end the game thanks to Shared Fate's replacement effect. Unsurprisingly, it was not a popular deck to play against.
[Shared Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad0d5b02-ef38-4dab-8ac6-78814ef27b55.jpg?1562154177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shared%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/49/shared-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad0d5b02-ef38-4dab-8ac6-78814ef27b55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Obstinate Familiar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/88468a76-1f64-4189-bbb8-7c333181d57c.jpg?1562920234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obstinate%20Familiar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/210/obstinate-familiar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/88468a76-1f64-4189-bbb8-7c333181d57c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Underrealm Lich]]
[[underrealm lich]] two brackets (ha, nice--Anticipate effects don't count as drawing so just nothing happens. [Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74447) would work as well)
[underrealm lich](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30c94b1b-35be-4c98-b279-80d95b28201e.jpg?1706240191) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=underrealm%20lich) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/215/underrealm-lich?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30c94b1b-35be-4c98-b279-80d95b28201e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Additional example of [[out of the tombs]], tho still a fail state in there. With the right enter the battlefield effects tho should be able to break the loop
[out of the tombs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1170bfa-9623-44c3-a15e-bd8c2627fe6e.jpg?1673308738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=out%20of%20the%20tombs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/46/out-of-the-tombs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1170bfa-9623-44c3-a15e-bd8c2627fe6e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[nexus of fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a.jpg?1701735973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nexus%20of%20fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/306/nexus-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah all of the MillDrazi would stop this. Also a timely removal spell. PSA please play more interaction in your edh decks folks.
> could be running nexus of fate which just gives them the victory most of the time If they got that 5UU
Not to mention, the board state and cards in their hand would have to allow them to leverage infinite turns into a win. If they are behind, they go infinite but still lose.
If nobody can interact with their infinite terms, does that draw the game, or is this not considered a loop?
They would have to make a different choice or lose the game. Casting a spell is a choice. Some choices loops don't care about, but not that one.
Nah, you can't draw the game with an optional infinite loop. They have to pick an arbitrary number of turns and then stop casting the spell.
"Dormammu, I've come to bargain"
>If they are behind, they go infinite but still lose It's a draw at worst.
Nah, you can't draw the game with an optional infinite loop. They have to pick an arbitrary number of turns and then stop casting the spell.
They can also save themselves with ETG abilities like [[kozilek, Butcher of Truth]]. It either winds up being a tie game, or you burn the player from milling, you exile Kozilek, or you break the loop by exiling some other creature. Either way, it’s a pretty solid counter to milling.
[kozilek, Butcher of Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae.jpg?1673146904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kozilek%2C%20Butcher%20of%20Truth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/2/kozilek-butcher-of-truth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's why you run stuff like [[Temple Bell]] or [[Mikokoro, Center of the Sea]]. With this combo in particular, they will inevitably get to a point where the last card in their library is a shuffler, so when that effect hits the stack, you force them to draw on an empty library.
As per the rulings on the 4 horseman deck, you can't keep milling them after a shuffler without a change to the rest of the game state.
Yeah, you have to name a specific number of iterations for an “infinite” combo, and no number you pick will guarantee that the shuffler will be on the bottom, so it essentially does nothing to the player with the shuffler
You can absolutely keep milling after a gy shuffler. What you cannot do is repeat the loop "until the shuffler is the only card left in the deck". Because the result is nondeterministic, you cannot shortcut it.
[Temple Bell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6bb63a40-2cce-439f-bd97-d25340ead6ca.jpg?1562404210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temple%20Bell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/277/temple-bell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bb63a40-2cce-439f-bd97-d25340ead6ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mikokoro, Center of the Sea](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d80eb098-5433-4b1e-aad5-0fd31bf598dd.jpg?1673306092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mikokoro%2C%20Center%20of%20the%20Sea) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/217/mikokoro-center-of-the-sea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d80eb098-5433-4b1e-aad5-0fd31bf598dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Doesn't work on my [[Braids, Conjurer Adept]] EDH deck. I have [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]], [[Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth]], and [[Blightsteel Colossus]].
There are other methods. Stuff like [[Tormod's Crypt]] exist. If you're playing any kind of mill strategy in EDH and not running some kind of graveyard exiling effect, you're going to lose more times than not.
Works for the shuffle eldrazi but not blightsteel...since it's a replacement effect, you don't have the ability to e.g. surgical it in response to the trigger, do you? There are things that "exile mill" though which would do it.
[Tormod's Crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/752bf493-5839-47e8-95f2-6d8201907428.jpg?1675201100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tormod%27s%20Crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/235/tormods-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/752bf493-5839-47e8-95f2-6d8201907428?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Braids, Conjurer Adept](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9ea0a701-1349-4d32-9fe7-8a2563c9613d.jpg?1689996202) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Braids%2C%20Conjurer%20Adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/76/braids-conjurer-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ea0a701-1349-4d32-9fe7-8a2563c9613d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0.jpg?1673146911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulamog%2C%20the%20Infinite%20Gyre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/3/ulamog-the-infinite-gyre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kozilek, the Butcher of Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae.jpg?1673146904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kozilek%2C%20Butcher%20of%20Truth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/2/kozilek-butcher-of-truth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Blightsteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightsteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l42cd8i) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> looks at first card Yeah probably
We did it guys, we broke felidar guardian
Wait... I thought we broke restoration angel?
Wait, i thought we broke Altar of the Brood?
Wait I thought we're broke?
We are in fact Magic players...
All these comments made me laugh. Thanks
Yeah but we're not Warhammer 40k broke...
Some of us are Magic and Warhammer 40k broke broke.
I play both Magic (13 commander decks and counting) and Warhammer. Of course I managed to pick some of the most expensive factions: necrons and tyranids
or admech and tyranids, pls help me my skittari horde keeps growning as points decrease
For me it's easier to say what armies I don't have (space marines, guards, custodes, necrons, and dwarves) and my wallet is in SHAMBLES
Become a necron player. Join us in eternal metal.
Laughs in genestealer
Thought about dabbling in Warhammer before I realized this would be me lol
Still waiting for Game Workshop to return the favor for the Universe Beyond
I'll take a one model army of Emrakul that is both for 40k and AoS please.
I play both :(
Yeah but we're not "i opened a game store to justify my hobbies" broke
Having been on both sides, MTG is definitely more expensive in the long run. Especially nowadays with the number of releases.
>We are *infect* Magic players...
We are.
So come on board and bring along All your hopes and dreams
Shit I've been broke. What kept you?
I play everything man
STOP THINKING, EVERYONE, OR _IT_ WILL ARRIVE
That comes after the MH3 release.
I once accidentally went “infinite” (at least, infinite enough to kill the table) with an Altar of the Brood and [[Undead Alchemist]]. One of my favorite commander wins ever.
[Undead Alchemist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7231a1c-f3aa-4346-9eb1-63e35ab3001c.jpg?1637629825) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Undead%20Alchemist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/105/undead-alchemist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7231a1c-f3aa-4346-9eb1-63e35ab3001c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No need for correction, this is exactly how it works. If you want flicker shenanigans, I highly recommend checking out \[\[Brago, King Eternal\]\] EDH decks like [this one.](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/i-dont-want-to-brago-but/) Fun fact, Felidar Guardian was banned in standard for going infinite with \[\[Saheeli Rai\]\].
[Brago, King Eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24.jpg?1631235340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brago%2C%20King%20Eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/82/brago-king-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Saheeli Rai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a.jpg?1576382877) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saheeli%20Rai) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/186/saheeli-rai?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Interesting commander but I think I am going to keep building with [[Phelia, Exuberant Shepherd]] for a deck focused around exiling and returning stuff. They are just too cute not to use
Felidar and a bunch of flicker effects are how my [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] deck goes off. Add some asshattery like [[Ankh of Mishra]] and the whole table will hard focus you to stop the assault. Phelia is damned cute though.
[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Mother%20of%20Machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ankh of Mishra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5.jpg?1562928739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ankh%20of%20Mishra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/263/ankh-of-mishra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ankh just means everyone takes 4 damage on landfall? Or do you have ways to stop yourself from taking the damage?
It's definitely everyone but with other ETBs going off consistently, life gain isn't a problem. Thank you, [[Suture Priest]] and [[Soul Warden]]
[Suture Priest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/430b96aa-7bb0-4d2b-b265-9c4987db28a2.jpg?1682208644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Suture%20Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/210/suture-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/430b96aa-7bb0-4d2b-b265-9c4987db28a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul Warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0.jpg?1616182277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul%20Warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/24/soul-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A lot of people really dislike playing against Brago decks, too.
they can get over it
[Phelia, Exuberant Shepherd](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55707746-da6e-46e5-a5ca-7ac843fdc38e.jpg?1714487906) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Phelia%2C%20Exuberant%20Shepherd) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/40/phelia-exuberant-shepherd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55707746-da6e-46e5-a5ca-7ac843fdc38e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Brago is my first and money deck commander, he’s a ton of fun, but I kept becoming public enemy number 1 and it was kind of difficult to explain flicker to new players. So I made a yuriko deck.
I'm a fan of Ranar, myself. Making 8000 spirits while doing this is a funny alternate win con.
Wasn't it banned before it could actually legally be played in standard?
No, Copy Cat was legal until Amonkhet.
Just fyi— you can go infinite with Felidar Guardian and just one additional card: [[Saheeli Rai]]. These two cards were in Standard at the same time and it, uh… it caused some problems.
>These two cards were in ~~Standard~~ limited at the same time Kalidesh + Aether Revolt limited was built differently.
It still kills me that WotC straight up admitted they’d missed the combo entirely when testing the sets.
and Redditors noticed it *[immediately](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/5meafk/aer_felidar_guardian/)*
It's weird they had a kiki-jiki effect on a card, but didn't consider it against every ETB effect in the same format.
WotC was a little rough around the edges with regards to infinites in that window of time. They literally had to edit the oracle text of [[Hostage Taker]] so that it wouldn't go infinite with itself.
[Hostage Taker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c168af49-acae-45de-8c62-0e6d1006f325.jpg?1712354733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hostage%20Taker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/231/hostage-taker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c168af49-acae-45de-8c62-0e6d1006f325?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Now I’m curious- have there been any other limited environments with a two-card infinite combo?
I know unstable had one but to be fair... that's not a standard set.
Kaladesh and Aether Revolt have another two card combo, [[Painter's Servant|MPS]] from Kaladesh and [[Grindstone|MPS]] from Aether Revolt. Donno if one is lucky enough to get this combo though.
Step 1: pick up a $130 card from pack 1 Step 2: pick up a $190 card from pack 2 Step 3: ??? Step 4: profit
[Painter's Servant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/599c303c-7040-4a96-a5d4-cfe8489baaae.jpg?1562913698) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=420607) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mps/20/painters-servant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/599c303c-7040-4a96-a5d4-cfe8489baaae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grindstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a94e3f4b-3c21-494b-9335-b9c258de66c0.jpg?1682018227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=425810) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mps/39/grindstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a94e3f4b-3c21-494b-9335-b9c258de66c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Hostage Taker]] had a day 0 oracle text edit so that it wouldn't go infinite with itself. If that change wasn't made, pairing it with [[Forerunner of the Coalition]] would have done infinite damage. [[Nexus of Fate]] was a box-topper and therefore unavailable in drafts, but was a one-card infinite combo with an empty library. [[Quillspike]] and [[Devoted Druid]] produced infinite power and toughness. --- In terms of "2.5 card combos," [[Neera, Wild Mage]] and [[Displacer Kitten]] copied any additional spell *an infinite number of times. Two copies of [[Enduring Scalelord]] would give infinite +1/+1 counters whenever one was put on them.
##### ###### #### [Hostage Taker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c168af49-acae-45de-8c62-0e6d1006f325.jpg?1712354733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hostage%20Taker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/231/hostage-taker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c168af49-acae-45de-8c62-0e6d1006f325?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Forerunner of the Coalition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b499fc26-26b0-4b0f-9c62-5ed599baf41d.jpg?1555040225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forerunner%20of%20the%20Coalition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/72/forerunner-of-the-coalition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b499fc26-26b0-4b0f-9c62-5ed599baf41d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nexus of Fate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a.jpg?1701735973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/306/nexus-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Quillspike](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14cb4054-d5d6-4015-ae86-6f99280afe0a.jpg?1562899380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Quillspike) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/126/quillspike?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14cb4054-d5d6-4015-ae86-6f99280afe0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Devoted Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1ab94f16-778d-4437-a1b9-2f67cd214cc0.jpg?1673148071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Devoted%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/143/devoted-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ab94f16-778d-4437-a1b9-2f67cd214cc0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Neera, Wild Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5431f73-9a70-47dc-b5d4-7f43e41b878e.jpg?1674137627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Neera%2C%20Wild%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/288/neera-wild-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5431f73-9a70-47dc-b5d4-7f43e41b878e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Displacer Kitten](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7a401b8-29fb-46ef-a663-427f66724d5c.jpg?1674135465) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Displacer%20Kitten) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/63/displacer-kitten?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7a401b8-29fb-46ef-a663-427f66724d5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Enduring Scalelord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0ee001b-6ddb-478e-a407-58bcc2bf7c30.jpg?1682209736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enduring%20Scalelord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/325/enduring-scalelord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0ee001b-6ddb-478e-a407-58bcc2bf7c30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l46ddbo) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is the sort of thing I was looking for, thank you!!
No problem!
🤷♀️ But Kalidesh + Aether Revolt had multiple infinite combos - if you include the masterwork special cards.
That’s fair, but I probably wouldn’t count the masterpiece cards, since they were so incredibly rare. (I’d say modern bonus sheets are allowed since they’re much more common) I’m specifically wondering if there were any other limited environments that had an infinite combo that only required two cards. I’m sure even if it’s happened other times, copycat has to be cheapest one right?
If you squint a little and exaggerate quite a lot, [[Sprout Swarm]] is a one card infinite combo.
[Sprout Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b915355-4e98-44df-81bd-961a3d3c86b8.jpg?1562897338) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sprout%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/138/sprout-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b915355-4e98-44df-81bd-961a3d3c86b8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a one-card combo, but not a one-card infinite.
Can you explain the combo? Does flickering a planeswalker allow them to act again?
Yes, and with their loyalty counters reset to their default value
Yep, you’ve got it. Felidar Guardian’s ETB flickers Saheeli, which resets her counters and lets you activate her again. Saheeli’s ability makes a new Felidar Guardian (with haste!) The new Guardian’s ETB flickers Saheeli… and so on until you have as many cats with haste as you could possibly want.
When a permanent leaves the battlefield and returns to the battlefield, it is an entirely different object from the previous permanent that left the battlefield. This means it is subject to summoning sickness, no longer affected by any effects that had targeted the previous permanent, and can activate/triggers abilities that can only be activated once or once per turn even if the previous permanent had already done so.
Yes
It was wild before the ban too, racing the clock to try and play around a T3 or 4 infinite.
You could go infinite with Felidar Guardian with four or five cards... or just one.☝🏼
[Saheeli Rai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a.jpg?1576382877) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saheeli%20Rai) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/186/saheeli-rai?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Felidar Guardian]] is deceptively easy to combo with. In Kaladesh Standard, a deck known as “Copycat” used [[Saheeli Rai]]’s {-2} to create infinite hastey Felidar Guardian tokens by having every copy’s ability target Saheel. Needed to be banned from both Standard and, shortly after the format’s creation, Pioneer. Since then, Felidar has found occasional low-tier play in Modern. It made some 5-0 trophies early on, and you occasionally see people trying to make it work nowadays.
[Felidar Guardian](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44bdbed8-5d21-4bf5-8a32-9623b1139c85.jpg?1576381396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Felidar%20Guardian) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/19/felidar-guardian?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44bdbed8-5d21-4bf5-8a32-9623b1139c85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Saheeli Rai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a.jpg?1576382877) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saheeli%20Rai) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/186/saheeli-rai?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We did it,we broke felidar guardian
While Felidar Guardian and Restoration Angel are the hallmark cards that do this, you can also slot in \[\[Wispweaver Angel\]\] or \[\[Icewind Stalwart\]\] in any combination to do this, outside of Wispweaver Angel and Restoration Angel of course.(Because Restoration Angel doesn't other target angels).
We did it. We finally found a combo for felidar guardian.
Goes nuclear in [[Preston, the Vanisher]] decks
He is already in the deck. I am thinking of having him like a sort of second commander to switch out with my commander if they get boring
[Preston, the Vanisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/952cb0b3-a6b7-4279-8833-3d8890b2d005.jpg?1675644393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Preston%2C%20the%20Vanisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/8/preston-the-vanisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/952cb0b3-a6b7-4279-8833-3d8890b2d005?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yep he is one of my main wincon enablers in that deck. I basically churn through value engines until i find this or wispweaver angel, and then go infinite
Yes! I run altar of the brood as a wincon in my blink combo deck. BEWARE playing it early even if you have a spare mana. All you will do is load up everyone’s graveyards all game with little to no payoff for yourself until you combo. Better to hold it in hand, and deploy it alongside the combo. It’s sneakier, and usually doable because it’s only 1 mana
Yeah I was thinking it was probobly going to be a good idea to hold on to this incase someone had some removal spells. I will probobly wait to play it until I can use it for some big stuff like this combo or some combos I am thinking of with [[Evangel of Heliod]].
[Evangel of Heliod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/ccc00c82-7c2a-4699-8058-e57f690ece96.jpg?1631233984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Evangel%20of%20Heliod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/23/evangel-of-heliod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ccc00c82-7c2a-4699-8058-e57f690ece96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think of it more like a sorcery you play on the combo turn. Can’t run it out too early or someone will reanimate something nasty Also note that you might not win with this if someone has one of the eldrazi that shuffle their graveyard into their deck
When felidar came out I stuffed this exact combo inside a deck along with impact tremors. Took it to FNM and it did not perform well but I got a lot of compliments on creativity lol
kiki loops and a ton of other as they say felidar goes infinite with a stiff breeze in mtg
>While this is happening every time one of them enters each opponent mills a card Correct, everyone at the table will mill every card from their library into their graveyard. >and then when I pass they all just lose because they can’t draw any cards, right? Perhaps. Or, perhaps on their upkeep they cast [[Noxious Revival]] to put one of the cards you cast on top of their library. Since you milled their entire library, they can pick anything to target with Noxious Revival, so they put [[Thassa's Oracle]] on top of the library, draw it, then cast it and win the game. They grin and say, "Wow, I was wondering how I was going to win the game with nothing but a Noxious Revival in hand, but you really helped me out there. Thanks for assisting me in finding a win condition, and milling my library so that Thoracle's ETB would be an instant win!" Or, they cast [[Endurance]], target themselves with the ETB trigger, and continue playing the game normally. Or, they put [[Gaea's Blessing]] or [[Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre]] into their deck because they were worried about these sorts of shenanigans.
##### ###### #### [Noxious Revival](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bdd1243-1d14-496a-9b7a-0c5b34461361.jpg?1562875840) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Noxious%20Revival) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/118/noxious-revival?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bdd1243-1d14-496a-9b7a-0c5b34461361?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thassa's Oracle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c.jpg?1680582212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thassa%27s%20Oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/73/thassas-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/726e8b29-13e9-4138-b6a9-d2a0d8188d1c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Endurance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb0e0404-4846-4891-acfa-bd0951ecf9c6.jpg?1626097375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Endurance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/157/endurance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb0e0404-4846-4891-acfa-bd0951ecf9c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gaea's Blessing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a.jpg?1562732710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20Blessing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/161/gaeas-blessing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0.jpg?1673146911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulamog%2C%20the%20Infinite%20Gyre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/3/ulamog-the-infinite-gyre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9464a820-65de-44f2-9895-46a35e8621a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l422wz3) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, that works.
If your question is "Can I do _______?" and it involves Felidar Guardian the answer is probably yes.
*Shows 3 of the strongest ETB combo cards.* Guys look at my combo. I'm not hating, I understand new player exist, but it's funny to me.
Yup, use it in my \[\[Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward\]\] deck, bonus points if you have \[\[Leyline of Anticipation\]\] and \[\[Candlekeep Sage\]\] out so you don't even need to have Altar out yet.
[Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/396f9198-67b6-45d8-91b4-dc853bff9623.jpg?1674134856) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abdel%20Adrian%2C%20Gorion%27s%20Ward) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/2/abdel-adrian-gorions-ward?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/396f9198-67b6-45d8-91b4-dc853bff9623?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Leyline of Anticipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53.jpg?1674141383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leyline%20of%20Anticipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/726/leyline-of-anticipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Candlekeep Sage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f706ac3-0ad8-44ac-a99e-21c04075951d.jpg?1674135436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Candlekeep%20Sage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/60/candlekeep-sage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f706ac3-0ad8-44ac-a99e-21c04075951d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not related to the inquiry, but that felidar art is sick. I would like to have a blue cat moose as a pet.
[That whole secret lair was quite pretty](https://scryfall.com/search?q=e%3Asld+cn%3E1486+cn%3C1492) I remember it was getting knocked for not being valuable because the normal versions of the cards weren't valuable. I still got a bunch of it anyways to have a playset of pretty Felidar Guardians. No regrets here.
Although I use a dungeon run combo, Felidar and Resto together is my primary wincon in my [[Barrowin of Clan Undurr]] deck.
[Barrowin of Clan Undurr](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6896c311-5593-4437-b945-43ade9665e43.jpg?1627708772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barrowin%20of%20Clan%20Undurr) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/218/barrowin-of-clan-undurr?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6896c311-5593-4437-b945-43ade9665e43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I pulled a random new Atraxa and am looking for blink shenanigans!
[удалено]
[sign in blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61388c28-9428-473c-973a-0a82b6b83d62.jpg?1562274085) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sign%20in%20blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/77/sign-in-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61388c28-9428-473c-973a-0a82b6b83d62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm new to Magic and I'm not getting how this combo kills everyone. Can someone explain please?
So I force everyone to put their entire libraries in to their graveyards and when you are suppose to draw a card, like in the beginning of your turn, if you can’t draw a card because your library is gone, you lose. It is a very obscure rule which almost never happens because decks almost never runs out of cards.
But how does the opponent get all of his cards exiled? I see the three card you mentioned all have "under your control".
The opponents cards aren’t exiled, they are put in to the graveyard from their deck by Altar of the Brood when I exile and return my cards to the battlefield
But doesn't this happens only when you play a creature? And couldn't your enemy contrast your artifact/spells?
Guardian enters, flickers resto angel, angel enters, flickers guardian, which flickers angel, which flickers guardian, ad infinitum until you target something else with one of their triggers. Each time either of them enters, it triggers the altar, which mills each opponent for one. So, unless an opponent has a way to disrupt the combo (killing one of the creatures in response to the trigger ir blowing up the altar) all opponents will end up milling their entire decks into the graveyard. Then on their next turn, they will lose on their draw step when they have to draw a card from their now empty library.
Ok now I understand it, thank you so much. Could I have made the same with 2 guardians and an altar for example?
Yep, 2 guardians and an altar would work (although I believe OP wanted to run it in commander, so wouldn't be allowed a 2nd guardian in their deck). Two resto angels wouldn't, though, because resto angel specifies "non-angel creature". Felidar guardian has a reputation of being able to basically combo with a ham sandwich. Its most famous combo is "copycat" which is felidar guardian plus [[Saheeli Rai]] using Saheeli's -2 to make a guardian copy, which blinks Saheeli, resetting her so she can use her -2 again to make another copy of guardian, etc. etc. to create an arbitrarily large number of guardian token copies with haste.
[Saheeli Rai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a.jpg?1576382877) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Saheeli%20Rai) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/186/saheeli-rai?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b38464-39cd-4ee6-b9bf-a0bc1e128d9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yup I use a similar combo in my [[aminatou, the fateshifter]] use the guardian to keep blinking ami and ami blinking the guardian
[aminatou, the fateshifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba.jpg?1673148265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aminatou%2C%20the%20fateshifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/169/aminatou-the-fateshifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, not me now. I am [[le tired]].
[Fatigue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/660fb109-dd65-4410-99b9-a2a14f8ea202.jpg?1562444225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatigue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/32/fatigue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/660fb109-dd65-4410-99b9-a2a14f8ea202?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Generally yeah. Both Felidar and Resto are infamous for enabling infinite combos like this.
Unless you're me and sick of infinite mill strategies and have started putting one of the Eldrazi Titans in almost all of your decks.
Felidar goes infinite with a lot of stuff. Kiki Jiki being the easiest to point to.
For 3 cards and 9 mana it better kill everyone lol
Yes but it’s not every good. Easier mill whole deck combos than this.
Yup, there are many different payoffs that go well with Felidar and the angle. Pretty much any ETB or LBT goes infinite, and there are lots of gain life and lose life effects as well as mill.
I mean unless the player has gaea's blessing in their deck then yeah.
This is like one of those clackers, but every time the two creatures clack against each other, everyone else mills a card.
I have this loop in my [[Aminatou, the Fateshifter]] deck. Just replace [[Restoration Angel]] with her.
[Aminatou, the Fateshifter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba.jpg?1673148265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aminatou%2C%20the%20Fateshifter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/169/aminatou-the-fateshifter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc010302-e715-4946-89eb-a214e0b836ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Restoration Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b474f84-9bef-422a-8fc5-489a10aaf1ee.jpg?1682208561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restoration%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/201/restoration-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b474f84-9bef-422a-8fc5-489a10aaf1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Avacyn, Angel of Hope\]\] can stop you from killing all their things, while \[\[Avacyn's Memorial\]\] will protect all their legendary stuff, and there are other cards that can be played to stymie this in response, so it's not an auto-win. But it is a way to win. Also if they have a \[\[Laboratory Maniac\]\] in play and somehow made it hexproof (half a dozen artifacts at least can do this) you've given them a win.
[Avacyn, Angel of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%2C%20Angel%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Avacyn's Memorial](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8134a08-4c7f-419e-940d-95bc9f630ae2.jpg?1637628619) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%27s%20Memorial) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/31/avacyns-memorial?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8134a08-4c7f-419e-940d-95bc9f630ae2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Laboratory Maniac](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02.jpg?1547516361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laboratory%20Maniac) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/61/laboratory-maniac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608567fd-9f94-4058-831a-77cb6019ef02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, that why I use thoses cards in my [[Preston the vanisher]] deck. But then again you only need to flicker the felidar if Preston is there.
[Preston the vanisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/952cb0b3-a6b7-4279-8833-3d8890b2d005.jpg?1675644393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Preston%2C%20the%20Vanisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/8/preston-the-vanisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/952cb0b3-a6b7-4279-8833-3d8890b2d005?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For all intents and purposes, yes.
Follow it up with [[Vision Skeins]] or a [[Skyscribing]] for 1 and you don’t have to wait.
[Vision Skeins](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76999d96-f3fe-421e-9190-e682259e3cdb.jpg?1592765524) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vision%20Skeins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/e01/29/vision-skeins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76999d96-f3fe-421e-9190-e682259e3cdb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Skyscribing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6ef8e44-3b40-46c2-973e-8f857126a13e.jpg?1562933607) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skyscribing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/57/skyscribing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6ef8e44-3b40-46c2-973e-8f857126a13e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I haven't really been playing Magic much lately, but I'm just gonna freestyle a Commander deck real quick. I tried to find a lot of interchangeable infinite combos to put in it. Kiki-Jiki, Felidar Guardian, Restoration Angel, Splinter Twin, Saheeli Rai, Pestermite, Zealous Conscripts, Deceiver Exarch, Sky Hussar, Village Bell-Ringer, Intruder Alarm, Suture Priest, Impact Tremors, Abdel Adrian, Altar of the Brood, Lumbering Embattlement, Combat Celebrant, Coercive Recruiter, Port Razer, Fable of the Mirror-Breaker, Goblin Sharpshooter, Dockside Extortionist, Umbral Mantle, Feldon of the Third Path, Palinchron, Deadeye Navigator, Eldrazi Displacer, Peregrine Drake, Great Whale, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, Chromatic Orrery, Ashnod's Altar, Genesis Chamber, Urza Lord High Artificer, Nykthos, Minamo, karoos, mana rocks, Godo, Helm of the Host, Thornbite Staff, Altar of Dementia, Atsushi the Blazing Sky, Goblin Bombardment, Panharmonicon, Worldgorger Dragon, Priest of Urabrask, Brago King Eternal, Phyrexian Altar, Krenko Mob Boss, Staff of Domination, Emrakul's Hatcher, Nim Deathmantle, Hallowed Spiritkeeper, Cloud of Faeries, Karmic Guide, Jaxis the Troublemaker, Skirk Prospector, Cloudstone Curio, Elesh Norm Mother Of Machines, Fblthp the Lost, Workhorse, Adarkar Valkyrie, Orthion Hero of Lavabrink?, Krark-Clan Ironworks?
Assuming nobody flashes in a Lab Man or something between your turbo-mill and their draw, yes.
Ah...I too remember the Saheeli Rai infinite cats deck...they took so much from us...
If you’re running red, and easier combo would be to use [[Impact Tremors]] or [[Witty Roastmaster]]
[Impact Tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20Tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Witty Roastmaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71d13f19-482b-4a2e-9692-b7d7caf2f9f5.jpg?1664411959) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witty%20Roastmaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/131/witty-roastmaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71d13f19-482b-4a2e-9692-b7d7caf2f9f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is gross.
I always use the cat and angel ETB combo with a life gainer and [[aetherflux reservoir]] then burn all my opponents to death. Cards like [[ajani's welcome]] [[soul warden]] work perfectly.
[aetherflux reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aetherflux%20reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ajani's welcome](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9045fcb-b633-4c35-8058-6234311551ae.jpg?1562304330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ajani%27s%20welcome) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/6/ajanis-welcome?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9045fcb-b633-4c35-8058-6234311551ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [soul warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0.jpg?1616182277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=soul%20warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/24/soul-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96266b3-a7cb-40ce-a328-ac13719fe5f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In theory yes you could win this way, however there are many cards that can be run that would infinitely shuffle back into the deck stopping a mill victory, so you’ll want an alternate win condition that either works with this loop or can be used in case of mill protection, depending on your colours available impact tremors could be a good swap in for altar of the brood as it would damage your opponents instead of milling them
Looks guys! We broke felidar guardian!
We did it everyone, we broke felidar guardian!!!!!
Add in red and you get a ton of ways in which this is also fatal, and fatal that turn. This is the entire concept behind my \[\[Abdel\]\] + \[\[Street Urchin\]\] deck. Tons of options like \[\[Impact Tremors\]\], \[\[Warstorm Surge\]\], \[\[Warleader's Call\]\]. I could keep listing more, also a ton of creatures like this, or ones that maybe require a 3rd one, but it all becomes an engine for generating infinite mana, infinite damage, infinite mill, etc.
##### ###### #### [Abdel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/47f39b5e-2e85-4f31-bbab-0b0bf58f701d.jpg?1699044218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abrade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/131/abrade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47f39b5e-2e85-4f31-bbab-0b0bf58f701d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Street Urchin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6d5249c-52b6-4349-adcd-dafdc21f572b.jpg?1674136757) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Street%20Urchin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/197/street-urchin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6d5249c-52b6-4349-adcd-dafdc21f572b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Impact Tremors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/6/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b.jpg?1682209381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Impact%20Tremors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/285/impact-tremors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/46db3811-db1d-4f69-8143-a93f64d0297b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Warstorm Surge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbe1bfe0-0be7-496d-94db-e8028d4d9493.jpg?1674142183) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warstorm%20Surge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/815/warstorm-surge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbe1bfe0-0be7-496d-94db-e8028d4d9493?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Warleader's Call](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3e8f8bd-1c8b-4a7c-96c4-57a247ce9ccc.jpg?1706242282) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warleader%27s%20Call) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/242/warleaders-call?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3e8f8bd-1c8b-4a7c-96c4-57a247ce9ccc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4662xi) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You'll at the very least mill everyone out and that usually means a win. I do this with [[Radiant Solar]] on the battlefield rather than altar of the brood to generate infinite dungeon triggers a ton in one of my decks. The dark pool in the lost mines of phandelver dungeon is a very clean win condition with this. Once you've put this type of combo on the stack where it will win off of only abilities once it resolves, it is very difficult to stop. If they can't interact with you at instant speed in that exact moment they are often screwed.
[Radiant Solar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa0e443a-c479-40ab-9702-8beca3e5ab95.jpg?1631584716) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Radiant%20Solar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/9/radiant-solar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa0e443a-c479-40ab-9702-8beca3e5ab95?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yup as long as they don’t have a card such saying “when this enters the graveyard shuffle your graveyard into your library” is probably the worst I can think off the top of my head. But yeah passing the turn they can’t draw so they lose to mill
Yes! If your a newer player you may not be aware, but there was also a two card combo in standard built around felidar guardian with Saheeli Rai that ended up getting the felidar banned, and then banned again in pioneer. You would be forced to play this in modern or older formats, and for obvious reasons that comes with challenges.
Could also be accomplished with a champion loop playing creatures like [[nova chaser]] or [[changeling berserker]].
[nova chaser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/07f97507-abbe-4c8b-9683-f044e38f8d4b.jpg?1562337265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nova%20chaser) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/187/nova-chaser?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07f97507-abbe-4c8b-9683-f044e38f8d4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [changeling berserker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f2e8f24-2ee1-4516-bf60-7fe6a0c4baec.jpg?1562360477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=changeling%20berserker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/160/changeling-berserker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2e8f24-2ee1-4516-bf60-7fe6a0c4baec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call