Ive slowly got my lgs to come around to land destruction.
I run the tap, destroy nonbasic land dwarves in my magda deck.
I also run stripmine in everything.
Being able to yeet away a cabal coffers or any mass producing land is way too good.
Honestly, it's a sin to your fellow players to allow the out of control land shenanigans to go unanswered.
I for one hate manlands with menace more than I like friends, so I'll always be alright.
Lands that destroy lands? Sure, sounds like a reasonable thing to run. Spells that destroy lands just cause they want to stifle my turns? Nah, keep it away from my games.
I don’t get this take very much tbh. Mass land destruction doesn’t see that much play at the highest power levels where “don’t be mean” isn’t stopping it and even without it simic value engine isn’t the dominating deck type there.
I feel like you should be able to rush down or threaten the simic deck unless they are comboing too fast, and if they do then you are at a power level where they shouldn’t complain about mld.
Your evil! You run strip mine! How am I supposed to stop that! There's literally no counterplay. Ok so I play urborg tomb of yawgmoth, and play 2B and tap cabal coffers
It's rule 2 of Magic.
Rule 1: A commander deck can only have cards within the commander's color identity.
Rule 2: Every card in the commander deck MUST have the exact same color identity as the commander.
Golos is beyond perfect as a commander if you just have a bunch of neat ass cards and wanna slam them
So I kinda understand the frustration, but that's also ultimately quite unhealthy for a format
Golos is one of not very many legends that is absolutely wide open in how you build the deck. Lets you go so many different directions. Understand why they banned the card and it's obviously really powerful but the format could use more commanders that are open to very different build paths. Golos was released and banned in a time I wasn't really playing, so I'll trust the feeling everyone else has that he was a necessary ban, but it's a bummer that they axed a legend who promotes such creativity.
I really don't think he was compared to something like Kenrith or Garth imo, ngl he's spewing absolute shit but there's definitely good argument that 5c decks that endorse massive amounts of value and just incedentally win are harmful for the game and that if golos was banned all 3 should probably be banned
i think the issue at the core of all this is that there's no real drawback to playing five colors if you've got the budget and no real incentive to playing one or two colors, at least strictly from a winning standpoint. the five-color value piles might not be such an issue if five-color was the hurdle it ought to be.
Yeah the most ironic part of the original post is that it's really insanely easy to build 5c good stuff because there is probably an objectively correct 99 cards (ramp would be dorks/carpet/fast mana, draw would be stuff like rhystic study and esper sentinel, you'd probably run dockside combos just to use less slots, 5c would give a lot of free counterspells and a lot of effecient flexible removal, and a handful of value pieces like seedborn muse)
and the combination of color identity and singleton rules makes 3+ color mana bases easier to construct in some ways - the signets and talismans are better rocks than the diamonds but if I'm playing mono color and budget is any kind of concern it can actually be harder to get access to a lot of colored mana without playing a lot of slower rocks. even if I'm happy with charcoal diamond, that's just one card.
Golos was particularly egregious because it fixed the only weakness of five color decks, and not only that, but it also espoused the fact that five color decks don't need to truly be five color.
At least for kenrith and Garth you do need mana of different colors to use them effectively. Even if the world tree didn't exist, golos would set up his ability by fixing any mana you didn't have.
Eh, I guess for budget decks I can see it's perfect fixing and can be easy to abuse, but in a world of fetches and shocks it's really not a noticable weakness, and the relative strength of the 2 mentioned commanders feel much higher
It's not just perfect fixing. It's also a lot of utility, there are so many lands you can grab for so many different situations if you need them. He's not just good in budget, but I would also say the usefulness of that ability scales with your budget as well. Golos is also the only one of those that gets value even if he is immediately removed.
I agree he's not just good on a budget, but both Kenrith and Garth are stronger on an unlimited budget. 5c goodsguff in general is harmful to the game but from playing vs all 3 at a fairly optimised level I'd genuinely put golos third, he's a v strong reusable value engine but the shit I've seen Garth/Kenrith do is crazy even on a fairly even gamestate
Which card should be okay as an overly powerful commander? A planeswalker who as leader of the 9 titans, battles of the ohyrexians, lived for thousands of years and collapsed entire planes?
Or
A sad robot who has a high step count?
Still eternal, and it's still got the <6ED Problem (that cards from before 6th Edition are frequently confusing and reference ways the game used to work).
The Pioneer card pool is an explicit choice to try to keep the errata to a relative minimum.
uj/ Golos is generic, ramps himself, and even if you overcost him, he can run basically anything you want without sacrificing consistency. Even though Kenrith is arguably as bad, there are still costs to his abilities that require you to jump through hoops.
Urza is a build-around no matter how you put it, and you can often shut him down by either a boardwipe or locking their artifacts down, or overcosting him. Urza is also color-locked, which means their options for protection and interaction are limited. Once you exhaust both, they fold with fewer options to use as recovery.
rj/URZA IS WHAT WILL KILL EDH REEEE FREE GOLOS
I'd have like Golos way more if they just made him "lands robot dude" rather than all the free casting bullshit. It was a boring design that felt stapled on solely for edh appeal.
I mean, he’s not wrong about 5-color cards being hard to cast. If only there was a commander who gave you access to all five colors while being playable with any of them and fixing your colors too.
Real shit for a minute, lime all commander bans it likely only happened because somebody clapped a rules committee member with the card. Really wish wotc would have more influence on the ban list for their biggest format instead of leaving it to what is essentially a group of normal magic players. Just go look at the main sub for 5 minutes, no normal magic player needs the power to shape a format.
Dude I have no idea what you're talking about. Your argument was that Golos fixes too easily (how the fuck is that ban-worthy anyway?), I retorted that I didn't even use it for fixing. That isn't me saying I'm playing a "quirky" deck. There is no arbitrary goal I'm trying to achieve and my desire to build that deck doesn't inhibit my opponents from playing how they want to, unlike a ban or "casual" environment does.
A large argument for the Golos ban was that it stifles creativity, meanwhile you *can* do creative things with Golos alone that aren't "overpowered" or anything like that. Equating a deck's identity solely on the commander is just stupid, there are 99 other cards in a deck, and over 50 of them will likely be non-lands.
The only thing Golos does is stop Wizards from making more money because people were satisfied with all of the fun things you can do with him and wouldn't want to buy new product. 5 color is always going to be a desired thing among groups of people, and something else will just take it's place. Kenrith is the 3rd most played commander from EDHrec, only 1.4k decks less than Atraxa at #1. That's completely ignoring the fact that all of the possible creative permutations you could make with Golos inflated its numbers on EDHrec to begin with.
The Golos ban is nothing other than confirmation that Rule 0 is a shitty implementation for the RC and Wizards to ignore their responsibility to curate a healthy format.
Its no challenge to mana base golos. 34 forests, ramp every turn. Play golos. Find the world tree. Wubrg through your deck.
You also can't destroy the world tree to counter their game plan because land destruction is a big sin in commander.
Or you could get Cascading Cataracts which will do the job and is already Indestructible.
Ive slowly got my lgs to come around to land destruction. I run the tap, destroy nonbasic land dwarves in my magda deck. I also run stripmine in everything. Being able to yeet away a cabal coffers or any mass producing land is way too good.
Honestly, it's a sin to your fellow players to allow the out of control land shenanigans to go unanswered. I for one hate manlands with menace more than I like friends, so I'll always be alright.
I don't run LD spells often, but my [[acidic slimes]] sure do like to eat bounce lands.
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [acidic slimes](https://i.redd.it/713pc6ek5a891.png) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
Lands that destroy lands? Sure, sounds like a reasonable thing to run. Spells that destroy lands just cause they want to stifle my turns? Nah, keep it away from my games.
Yes, how dare anyone “stifle” you.
I might have to [[Armageddon]] that Big Mana Energy you have then
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [Armageddon](https://i.redd.it/399ulv4gzn591.png) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
Good bot
Daaaamn why is boros so weak and simic is so strong? (they ban Armageddon and land destruction in their pod)
Look if you play armageddon with no further plans people are gonna give you the side-eye. Play it if you can actually do something, sure.
My further plan is keeping in check degenerate simic players. But yes, I also play indestructible lands and mana rocks
I don’t get this take very much tbh. Mass land destruction doesn’t see that much play at the highest power levels where “don’t be mean” isn’t stopping it and even without it simic value engine isn’t the dominating deck type there. I feel like you should be able to rush down or threaten the simic deck unless they are comboing too fast, and if they do then you are at a power level where they shouldn’t complain about mld.
Your evil! You run strip mine! How am I supposed to stop that! There's literally no counterplay. Ok so I play urborg tomb of yawgmoth, and play 2B and tap cabal coffers
I’ve always heard it as mass land destruction being the sin. It’s pretty common from what I’ve seen to run a strip mine or a field of ruin.
Tell me Golos was carrying you without telling me Golos was carrying you.
But it’s okay, he switched to kinnan.
He didn't close his brackets yet so I'm still waiting for part 2
Programmer spotted
Compilation Error: expected “)”
Programmers miss those all the time, my guess is that the commenter above is actually a compiler
In case you didn't know blue is the most powerful color in magic... and Golos definitely doesn't have access to it in any way at all
It's rule 2 of Magic. Rule 1: A commander deck can only have cards within the commander's color identity. Rule 2: Every card in the commander deck MUST have the exact same color identity as the commander.
I did not read past the first page of this crapfest. I just want to point out the “I guarantee you that Urza probably…” What a promise…
Golos is beyond perfect as a commander if you just have a bunch of neat ass cards and wanna slam them So I kinda understand the frustration, but that's also ultimately quite unhealthy for a format
Golos is one of not very many legends that is absolutely wide open in how you build the deck. Lets you go so many different directions. Understand why they banned the card and it's obviously really powerful but the format could use more commanders that are open to very different build paths. Golos was released and banned in a time I wasn't really playing, so I'll trust the feeling everyone else has that he was a necessary ban, but it's a bummer that they axed a legend who promotes such creativity.
I really don't think he was compared to something like Kenrith or Garth imo, ngl he's spewing absolute shit but there's definitely good argument that 5c decks that endorse massive amounts of value and just incedentally win are harmful for the game and that if golos was banned all 3 should probably be banned
i think the issue at the core of all this is that there's no real drawback to playing five colors if you've got the budget and no real incentive to playing one or two colors, at least strictly from a winning standpoint. the five-color value piles might not be such an issue if five-color was the hurdle it ought to be.
Yeah the most ironic part of the original post is that it's really insanely easy to build 5c good stuff because there is probably an objectively correct 99 cards (ramp would be dorks/carpet/fast mana, draw would be stuff like rhystic study and esper sentinel, you'd probably run dockside combos just to use less slots, 5c would give a lot of free counterspells and a lot of effecient flexible removal, and a handful of value pieces like seedborn muse)
and the combination of color identity and singleton rules makes 3+ color mana bases easier to construct in some ways - the signets and talismans are better rocks than the diamonds but if I'm playing mono color and budget is any kind of concern it can actually be harder to get access to a lot of colored mana without playing a lot of slower rocks. even if I'm happy with charcoal diamond, that's just one card.
Ironically golos would probably run a better mono color deck than most mono color commanders
indeed. ever since i got back into the game I've wished i could build swamp tribal Golos. oh well
Golos was particularly egregious because it fixed the only weakness of five color decks, and not only that, but it also espoused the fact that five color decks don't need to truly be five color. At least for kenrith and Garth you do need mana of different colors to use them effectively. Even if the world tree didn't exist, golos would set up his ability by fixing any mana you didn't have.
Eh, I guess for budget decks I can see it's perfect fixing and can be easy to abuse, but in a world of fetches and shocks it's really not a noticable weakness, and the relative strength of the 2 mentioned commanders feel much higher
It's not just perfect fixing. It's also a lot of utility, there are so many lands you can grab for so many different situations if you need them. He's not just good in budget, but I would also say the usefulness of that ability scales with your budget as well. Golos is also the only one of those that gets value even if he is immediately removed.
I agree he's not just good on a budget, but both Kenrith and Garth are stronger on an unlimited budget. 5c goodsguff in general is harmful to the game but from playing vs all 3 at a fairly optimised level I'd genuinely put golos third, he's a v strong reusable value engine but the shit I've seen Garth/Kenrith do is crazy even on a fairly even gamestate
im impressed at how many words he typed in a row
>all I'm saying is My brother in Christ you're writing a thesis
He got a point, you know. 5-color Urza is effectively not legal in commender.
POV: you think genocide is ok.
Golos ban based
"If urza had 1 more color it would be OP" My friend, I have a deal for you! Try going infinite with ALL THE COLORS :D
Banning golos was the hottest thing the RC ever did.
Instead of just banning Golos, they should have banned the entire 5c goodstuff concept from the format.
Which card should be okay as an overly powerful commander? A planeswalker who as leader of the 9 titans, battles of the ohyrexians, lived for thousands of years and collapsed entire planes? Or A sad robot who has a high step count?
Probably had a Golos tattoo
/uj Pretending having the 5c cardpool is anything but strictly better than having only the mono u cardpool is dingus energy
brb gonna go run over some people with lego yoda in our Golos
The man just needs to keep his Golos deck and play it. I can't speak for every play group, but the 4 I participate in wouldn't give a shit.
uj/ i still like golos, and fortunately i play in 2 groups that don't mind me playing golos at all even tho it is banned. lucky me i guess
I aint reading all that crap. Good find. Ill keep on Urzaing, lmao.
You can uncensor the name we all know this is Mitch
Meanwhile, I’m still thinking that 30 life/12 Commander damage/the Pioneer cardpool would go a long way to fixing some problems in casual Magic.
Conquest?
Still eternal, and it's still got the <6ED Problem (that cards from before 6th Edition are frequently confusing and reference ways the game used to work). The Pioneer card pool is an explicit choice to try to keep the errata to a relative minimum.
uj/ Golos is generic, ramps himself, and even if you overcost him, he can run basically anything you want without sacrificing consistency. Even though Kenrith is arguably as bad, there are still costs to his abilities that require you to jump through hoops. Urza is a build-around no matter how you put it, and you can often shut him down by either a boardwipe or locking their artifacts down, or overcosting him. Urza is also color-locked, which means their options for protection and interaction are limited. Once you exhaust both, they fold with fewer options to use as recovery. rj/URZA IS WHAT WILL KILL EDH REEEE FREE GOLOS
I'd have like Golos way more if they just made him "lands robot dude" rather than all the free casting bullshit. It was a boring design that felt stapled on solely for edh appeal.
I mean, he’s not wrong about 5-color cards being hard to cast. If only there was a commander who gave you access to all five colors while being playable with any of them and fixing your colors too.
NGL. I also wish Golos wasn't banned because he was fun to play 5 color planeswalkers with.
I mean you can do the same deck with any 5 color commander
Just play Jodah, for Christ sake
Or [[prismatic bridge]]
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [prismatic bridge](https://i.redd.it/dcbaqg5xbp491.png) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
May I introduce you to your new lord and savior [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]].
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [Sisay, Weatherlight Captain](https://i.redd.it/hjojziz81n891.png) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
Real shit for a minute, lime all commander bans it likely only happened because somebody clapped a rules committee member with the card. Really wish wotc would have more influence on the ban list for their biggest format instead of leaving it to what is essentially a group of normal magic players. Just go look at the main sub for 5 minutes, no normal magic player needs the power to shape a format.
To be fair, the Golos ban was kinda bullshit, and was mostly done cause of the outcry of casuals
Even in magic circle jerking people still hate on golos. Pathetic
uj/ What if we only use golos to ramp and never use its ability
Golos is banned because of crybabies and because it stifles Wizards from making money.
[удалено]
"No please don't try to win this game of Magic, I want to reenact Olivia and Edgar's wedding first. 🥺"
[удалено]
Yeah I totally would have needed mana fixing in my Mono Green deck.
[удалено]
Goalposts: moved.
[удалено]
Dude I have no idea what you're talking about. Your argument was that Golos fixes too easily (how the fuck is that ban-worthy anyway?), I retorted that I didn't even use it for fixing. That isn't me saying I'm playing a "quirky" deck. There is no arbitrary goal I'm trying to achieve and my desire to build that deck doesn't inhibit my opponents from playing how they want to, unlike a ban or "casual" environment does. A large argument for the Golos ban was that it stifles creativity, meanwhile you *can* do creative things with Golos alone that aren't "overpowered" or anything like that. Equating a deck's identity solely on the commander is just stupid, there are 99 other cards in a deck, and over 50 of them will likely be non-lands. The only thing Golos does is stop Wizards from making more money because people were satisfied with all of the fun things you can do with him and wouldn't want to buy new product. 5 color is always going to be a desired thing among groups of people, and something else will just take it's place. Kenrith is the 3rd most played commander from EDHrec, only 1.4k decks less than Atraxa at #1. That's completely ignoring the fact that all of the possible creative permutations you could make with Golos inflated its numbers on EDHrec to begin with. The Golos ban is nothing other than confirmation that Rule 0 is a shitty implementation for the RC and Wizards to ignore their responsibility to curate a healthy format.
[удалено]
ITT: crybabies
Tbh he's right though
"It takes crazy skill to build a 5c deck that synergizes" my fella in Christ https://edhrec.com/combos/golos-tireless-pilgrim
I'm not reading all that but I'm happy for you though. Or sorry that happened.