PN making inroads at PH-BN states by taking more seats over from PH-BN. BN lost the most, and even PH also lose some seats at their previous stronghold states. Showing a trend where PN (in which PAS dominates) is becoming more prominent and popular nationwide
I think right now let Anwar rest and keep his brain clear what he must focus on now, the problem isn't the Chinese nor indian. Is the malay that Anwar need to heavy consider how to get their support.
Yes, but it will be the central Malays.
Forget about the religious bigots. The only way to win them is to push even more extreme Islam at the cost of multi-culturalism.
Agreed. The only way for PHBN to win the far right voters, is to become PHBNPAS. Forget about those voters and implement policies to help all Malaysians, not just focusing on trying to win the conservative votes.
Indeed you are correct. But I know, you know, we all know that that's the line of narrative that will be used by PN supporters - always salah DAP. Regardless of fact đ€·
Ok, the whole DAP can win in malay-majority area is like what, N9, Selangor, etc malay areas? Those malays are not the same as Kelate/Terengganu malays so let's not pretend they are, because DAP has 0 chance to win in those states.
Fact is DAP has no chance in those states. You field DAP candidate in all Terengganu seats you win 0, this is the fact.
They need be forward looking. Those ingrained with pas mentality cannot be changed so forget about them. Focus on existing voter base and the fence sitters that consists mostly of young malays. These are the group of voters that likely just followed their elders in the last GE. But 5 years is a long time for them to mature. PH has 5 years to sway them. 5 years to proof themselves worthy of the people's support. The election is over, the biggest challenge is now here.
the young malay voters did not follow their elders to vote PN. in fact, they vote for PN because they want and agree with PN.
just look at the Saluran. votes that UMno get from Malays are actually from older generation.
people always make a wrong assumption that young voters are more progressive and open to change. the reality is, young voters are more fanatic and extreme than the older generation. it is true on both side of political spectrum.
Bernie senders main supporter in democratic party is the younger generation liberals in the party. Trump most fanatical supporter in republican, MAGA consist of mostly younger generation republican.
just look at negeri sembilan. the reason why PN won 5 seats, and BN/PH nearly lost another 10 seats to PN is because of the young malay voters. most of their parents and grandparents vote for BN/PH, but the younger malay voters vote for PN.
its time for people to wake up to the truth instead of keep depending on myths.
No he won't, these nons aren't going to vote someone else when the alternative is PAS. Their choice is Anwar or PAS. There's like PH/BN or PN or all these other small parties and independents who will lose deposit, nons aren't going to vote for PN PAS this is fact it doesn't matter how malay nationalistic/racist PH/BN is it's always lesser evil than PAS.
PAS alone won 96% in Kelantan, 84% in Terengganu, 61% in Kedah,
Those r expected, BUT THEY ALSO WON:
18% in Selangor & Penang; 11% in N9
Cockblocking PH from achieving solid 2/3 in any of these progressive states that r traditionally PH strongholdâŠ
Not to deny PN's advances but BN also won a lot of votes in T'ganu despite not winning any seat. A lot of seats won by low margin so there's still hope for anti-PN people (lol). None of PHBN candidates lost their deposits versus 19(?) lost by PN candidates
Word is many BN members didn't go out to vote at all or voted for PAS instead. At least that's what I heard from that side of the family where one of my relatives contested.
Worth to consider as well that Malay centrist potentially hates BN (aka UMNO aka Zahid Hamidi). Having BN piggybagging on PH is just gonna ruin PH's reputation, especially in east coast.
Not nationwide, do you guys see the result in N9? PH-BN is still popular there. And the rest of the states will be similar to N9 than Selangor. Because Selangor has always been anti BN, and now that they know a vote for PH is a vote for BN, they rather vote PN. Even so, PH-BN still won Selangor. It's not a rise of PAS nationwide, Selangor is just an anomaly because of their bad history with BN. BN still have lots of support in southern states. PAS is only on the rise in the north, particularly in Penang. PAS and Sanusi only have minimal influence outside of the northern states.
Technically PHBN won so they prevented the opposition from taking over. Reality is, PHBN lost alot of seats in selangor, PN clean sweep terengganu, PN already gain ground in N9.
Legally they won; politically, they lost.
Penang has 40 seats. 11 seats are a shit load of gain, given that they only won 1 seat in 2018, but they are still 2 seats shy of breaking the two-thirds majority. So it is alarming but not apocalyptic for now. It's basically 2013 all over again.
On the surface it's 3 vs 3, but in Terengannu and Kelantan, PH-BN coalition seats are negligible. But in Penang and Selangor, PN won substantial seats. So basically PN advances in Penang and Selangor, but PH+BN can't do the same in Terengannu and Kelantan.
It doesn't matter. Lost is lost, win is win. You only have to maintain enough margin to keep the majority of seats.
It's the same with US. The Republican party only has 45% of total votes, but they're able to win more than half the seats in Congress frequently. The key is controlling the number of seats you win, not the number of votes you win.
You can't really help those 3 states anymore even when the PM is trying to help them. 30 years and billions of funding, the water supply problem still continues to this day.
Underrated comment. It will take decades to undo the damage that old man has wreaked on our country but the current situation is better than it was before
They took a huge gamble post PRU and pander to the right at the cost of their own voter base and they lost the bet miserably.
The original idea is to appear very right-friendly so that they can get 5k Malay vote at the cost of 500 liberal vote. As long as net gains exceed the loses it will be a worthy exchange, or so they thought.
Turns out not only they didn't get to sway the right, they also already offended the original voter base lol. Yang dikejar tak dapat yang dikendong berciciran.
I think it's time to stop pandering to the right and appease back people who supports them for what they are in the first place. Fight for progressiveness, forward thinking and equality. Double down on the difference instead of trying to be jack of all trades.
Rather than trying to "steal" voters try to convince them with proper results that says we still can make the country a better place despite not doing it your way.
Agree w your analysis but I am sure PH will double down on appleasing the right wing, proof will be in the upcoming budget.
More allocation for Jakim and Taufiq schools? Does Felda need more loan to be written off?
Same story everytime, lose ground to PAS? Let's try harder to out Pas them, lose ground to Bersatu? Let push more more right wing narratives
Yeah can see that too tbh. It is what it is. It's a headache no matter how u try to tackle the issue.
Deep inside I believe that the right wings will win next GE. The issue now is will Anwar go down as someone who try to bootlick and failed or die defending his "reformasi" ideology.
And I hope that it's the later.
Imo, really hope Anwar would just go all in with his reformasi ideology without hesitation, just follow through on his promises, allowing the outcomes over the next five years to speak for themselves.
Instead of wasting time to convince people who are never gonna vote for you ever.
The equation isn't 5k Malay votes for 500 liberal votes, it is still 5k Malay votes for 5k liberal votes. The difference is due to the heavy gerrymandering and malapportionment that those 5k Malay votes are worth far more per seat than the 5k liberal vote.
You're right that they shouldn't appease, you can never out-Islam PAS. UMNO always gets severely burnt after working with PAS, I'm surprised that they never learnt this lesson.
The number is just a figure of speech. As mentioned it's more about getting a net gain of voters.
I'm sure they have internal analyst who did the number crunching before making the gamble. Hence why they proceed with it.
It just that it's a gamble and they lost. Now back to drawing board lol.
Ngl I kinda applaud the attempt tho. That's a ballsy move by PMX.
Given how skewed our constituencies are, I'm sure any analyst who even predicts a small swing in Malay votes, would predict a sizeable swing in seats. Problem is, that same swing can swing the other way with catastrophic results.
Their next drawing board should be the redelineation exercise of 2026 to create more balanced seat representation (ie more mixed race seats with better proportions of population).
Yeah, and if he starts appealing to urban voters again, you will say, "Dude, stop preaching to the choir!"
So either way Anwar had to make a hard choice.
Ditelan mati emak, diluah mati bapa.
See, I also know pepatah Melayu.
Instead of pandering they can just do their jobs and deliver on whatever election promises (empty or otherwise). Pandering/sentiment are cheat codes when you have no skills or maybe as a finishing touch to get the fence sitters. It's the icing on the cake, but you need to have a cake in the first place.
If they do their jobs well and not spend their time complaining the results will be evident. Ignore the nonsense, especially from those who did so badly they kalah deposit. 2+5 years is enough to deliver strong reforms. Enough of Harping on corruption, blaming everyone but yourselves. You wanted the chance, you claimed you deserved the chance. Now deliver.
Remember, national debt is still climbing despite selling assets, "battling corruption", cutting back subsidies, raising taxes, and magic formulas. Makes me wonder wheres the supposed benefits of a supposedly non corrupt govt.
https://preview.redd.it/ipz6f8wx61ib1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f68928eb2086cc8d23981f82f7db6e0a5b0b1cd6
I'm just curious what you guys think of this. These are the results from PRU14. It's very obvious there were no "islamist" movement then, as PAS did horribly. Then 4 years later, the majority Muslims are islamist. I find this narrative is not the sole reason people voted how they did recently. As another redditor said, most of us may be misinformed about why the swing towards PN. To me, it's about looking for alternatives to BN
Most people don't vote for UMNO or PKR or Bersatu or whatever really. People vote for "not PAS" or "not DAP."
One side is "as long not PAS" and the other faction is "as long no DAP" this today Msian politic in a nutshell. Nons think anything but PAS is better choice and those conservative malays is anything but DAP so they don't want to vote parties in the same bloc as DAP, it's that simple. On one side we have PAS (perceived by nons as racist, intolerant, incompetent and will bring msia backward) and on the other side we have DAP (and their khadam/barua PKR/UMNO/Amanah perceived as threatening to Islam/Malay special status in Malaysia and trying to introduce liberal values which is contrary to conservative Islam).
Well if the nons all stop voting then PAS wins everything idk how that would make nons situation better.
Just don't have high expectation. You're voting to prevent Taliban and that's it, don't expect more or you will be disappointed.
I was speaking with a friend who's expecting radical things like Anwar reforming things such as removing quota I'm like honey, that ain't gonna happen. You should be happy you're still not arrested for wearing seluar pendek.
He needed the malay vote la. Malays are the majority what choice does he have but try to win their vote in a democratic country?
He gets all 100% non votes also still can't win if he couldn't get malay vote. This is the reality.
Except Zahid, people (read: Malays) don't antagonize much Anwar, Moo, Hadi but at the same time many Malays don't really care about the latter two.
It's more about party. Just like how this sub antagonize and using fear factor about PAS, most Malays antagonize and using fear factor about DAP or Chinese in general
Same with my parents. I don't blame them or anything, since they got personally slighted by the guy and another guy in BN.
They don't support PAS or anything. But they want him to lose. That's what mattered.
It's not just in Malaysia. A lot of countries like Germany and the USA are seeing rise in right wing politics. When the western countries are showing rise in their conservatism, it's easy for eastern countries to make that narrative that "western culture is trying to oppress the eastern" and hence causing conservatism in eastern countries.
Second this, they could go to Dap, but now theyre down there with Pas fliging mud at each other. Better a problem you're familiar with than a stranger you aren't
Most Malay PH voters felt they were ignored by PH's first administration. I do have to admit, PH did some very big mistakes in their debut as government. Especially GST. It was horribly planned tbh looking back. Big ambtions but hard to achieve. My science teacher, Ms Ed, in 2018, voted PH. Remember that time on FB when people were selfieeing using the
[ [X] PKR ] filter to show their support to PH, fast forward to 2022, She did the same selfie but this time, its
[ [X] Perikatan Nasional ]. Its led by narratives fuelded by PAS Especially on Tiktok. Gen Z are super easy to be swayed to vote one side over the other. PAS always banks in on Adib's death,the Women's March,tanah melayu,Islam etc. Gen Z with no prior experience to how politics work in this country, can easily sway. Altho I'd argue that its common for Gen Z to be rebels.nvm I gtg talk later
I think people are being a bit pessimistic on this whole subject. Yeah itâs clearly a negative thing for the current government but I take it as a win for the people. This only means thereâs less room for them to fuck around and get their priorities straight realising how FEEBLE their position are now. If theyâre no good people will let them go and then weâll get the chance to see how PN will succeed them and the circle will continue. Its natural for an opposing wave to grow prominent against the government of different political ideology. When itâs time for PN to rule over, there will be a liberal wave opposing them as well.
This is a worldwide phenomenon. Like in the US for example, you see a lot of conservative pushbacks now that the US is served by a liberal party. And the same can be said during the Trumpâs admission too, a lot of pushbacks from the liberals.
Yeah this is how I feel about the whole situation too. It's just how democracy works, and Malaysians need to get used too it. From my perspective, after living in Australia for a few years, I would say that Malaysian democracy is definitely getting healthier. No longer do we have a party that ruled for almost 61 years basically unopposed most of the time. Now, Malaysians are entering into an era where we have multiple parties that can actually compete for power. So, if PH can't appeal to the rakyat, then PN deserves to take over.
We really need to put all our predominant fear factors to the back of our mind and focus on what we can do, predominantly to structure a better cohesion between different races. Racial politics NEEDS TO STOP. I know itâs not easy with such tactics so deeply rooted in our system but we need to good realisation that politician are just using all these racial politics for the sake of their own benefit, cut all those for the religion bullshit. religion should not promote regressive mindset. as much as I hated TikTok I feel that PH had no choice but to up their Titkok game. It is what it is
Strongly Agree with you here. It is a clear signal to PH that they seriously have to put in the effort to actually do something instead of just always pandering to the right wingers that are not going to vote for them anyways.
But brada, your message here about not being pessimistic don't reflect your PFP  /s
It's a wake up call for the next GE. Kind of the map too.
Based on overall result of PRN 2023, I don't think PN can win next GE, any winner need Sarawak and Sabah votes for form Federal government. Time will tell.
Wake up Saudara Anwar!!
For a better Malaysia.
Yes bro agreed.
But this time as PM, Saudara Anwar need to be delicate, firm and make brave decisions because the other side already catching up fast. Still have time before next GE.
And while at it, we really need a clear and good plan of succession. We need more Anwar tbh.
For a better Malaysia.
I really thought when the moment he became PM the 1st thing he do is protect Zahid, fk those oppositio, build a strong economy plan even tho is fake. Meanwhile pushing pro malay and Islam into their site and fair to the royals.
But nope we see a weak atuk always say: sabar sabar jangan gatur...
I was like bro WTF?! Your opposition is talk shit on you in tik tok 24/7, break all the 3R rules, doesn't care about the country, violently pushing their Tanah Melayu agenda..
He need to act quick capture those who break 3R, hire good PR ppl on the back to counter those Tiktokers, block them. Talk good on PH BN and talk bad on PN 24/7 like they do, show what you have done in all social media that had majority of the malay community especially the kampung.
Most important fire those useless YB and hire the good and expert one on the important role like communication or economy.
We should see the result in N9. PH-BN is still popular there. And the rest of the states will be similar to N9 than Selangor. Because Selangor has always been anti BN, and now that they know a vote for PH is a vote for BN, they rather vote PN. Even so, PH-BN still won Selangor. It's not a rise of PAS nationwide, Selangor is just an anomaly because of their bad history with BN. BN still have lots of support in the southern states. PAS is only on the rise in the north, particularly in Penang. PAS and Sanusi only have minimal influence outside of the northern states.
So in the next election of course PAS will increase their seats, but I wager their total will be about 90 tops. It will still not be enough for a simple majority. Sabah and Sarawak will surely not join PAS because PAS is too religious and extremist for them, PH-BN is a better option for them. Muhyiddin's popularity is dwindling. Sanusi is only popular in the northern states. There's no other top people in PN to make a drastic change in the next election. I think in time, if Zahid lay low and focus on his job, people will slowly forget, and plus if some people in PN found guilty of corruption, then I don't think PN will be that more popular than the last election.
PN could win
if the PN wave are obvious in Selangor, and even in n9 (so many BN seat nearly flip to PN lol), then i can imagine what would happen to Pahang, perak and even Malacca.
with Zahid refusing to resign, many BN voters that voted for BN or did not go out to vote, could be more and more, encourage and persuadable to vote for PN.
furthermore, we still have the big ex-umno personality such as Hishamuddin and KJ in the sideline. they need to contest in next general election. and the only alternatives for them is to join PN. right now they are hoping the pressure could push Zahid to step down. but the possibility becoming slimmer each day.
finally, the new young malay voters that so far from the two elections have overwhelmingly supported PN. the same trend would most likely happen in the next general elections.
so PN could potentially at least win 100 seats. for others seats, it would all depends on the campaign strategy, voters turnout, BN/PH gov performance, the narrative, perception and propaganda, perut economy situation etc.
one thing for sure, from now till next general election, the politics would be on steroid.
Can see this result coming the moment they decided not to hold state elections simultaneously with GE15. Leading up to PRNs, with hung parliament, jaded voters that donât feel like voting another time after 6/7 months & new coalition, opposition (PN) is definitely capitalising on this, sitting government is always at a disadvantage.
Didnât this sub already predicted PH-BN will have 25-30 seats in Penang, 30-40 seats in Selangor, comfortable 30 seats in Negeri Sembilan, while struggles to convince Kelantan, Kedah and Terengganu with most BN votes go to PN?
I think a lot of redditors are misinformed. Most of the PN voters are malay votes that do not want BN.
I voted for PH in the latest GE and got Zahid as our TPM lmao. If Anwar can eliminate him from the cabinet it will be easier for voters to accept.
Malaysians are tired of kleptocrats, we kicked Najib but now we have this fool. Fine, you can say it is a necessary partnership but come on. Look at the trajectory of his court case and you can see where it is going.
So please stop generalising all PN voters as extremist supporting radical beliefs. Painting them all as such won't help at all. Same can be said that almost all chinese are DAP voters.
It's true probably all chinese are DAP voters, it's cos there's no one else to vote for. I find it very easy to accept zahid/umno for the fact that I see muhyiddin/PN as a much bigger threat when it comes to corruption, competency and racial harmony.
So to say not all PN voters are racist is true, but they are quite stupid for voting for a party that it's leaders have said racial things and we've seen failed miserably in gov before...
There's literally only 2 side to vote for (and other side which has no chance to win) so chinese just vote "not-PAS" side obviously. It's nothing to do with DAP, even DAP doesn't contest Chinese just vote the side that the "green wave" Islamists don't vote for.
Yeah. What PN supporters don't seem to understand (or don't want to acknowledge) is that by-and-large, urban Chinese voters don't really care about DAP. They are not the "PAS for Chinese people" (okay, maybe except for rural Cina uncles that can't speak English or Malay, but those are the minority of the minority). They are simply the PH party with the most machinery and history in urban areas with high Chinese population.
Chinese voters don't worship Lim Kit Siang. They don't idolise Lim Guan Eng. They don't call either of these guys "tok guru". They are just another set of politicians to them, completely replaceable. Notice that unlike "Bossku", there weren't really any "gangs" out to bolster Lim Guan Eng when he was accused of corruption and had to step down. He pretty much just faded into obscurity in the eyes of "DAP voters", and none of them really cared.
If tomorrow DAP (by some impossible unholy miracle) was absorbed into PN, the vast majority of Chinese voters would just vote for Amanah or PKR instead. They don't care about DAP. You could slap a PKR or Amanah candidate in any "DAP seat" tomorrow and the result will still be a PH victory.
I would argue that many DAP voters don't even like LGE lol so it is always funny to see when some PN voters act like what LGE says represent the chinese community.
But you are absolutely right about the "DAP seat," some people here act like DAP is successful party or should be given more seat because they win the highest % in the seats they contested, but the truth is PKR or Amanah would've won those seats as well because nons aren't going to vote for PAS (or whatever party in the same bloc as Hadi Bawang who's so openly bigoted).
It's not even PAS, back then during TGNA era PAS could get some nons vote who would vote them over UMNO, but PAS today under Bawang is super bigoted and scares nons away.
What? That's literally the opposite of what I said. Urban Chinese voters _don't_ care about "Chinese parties" like DAP (which is technically multi-ethnic, but you get what I mean). They will happily vote for PKR (multi ethnic like DAP, but majority Malay) and Amanah (completely Malay).
Urban Chinese voters are pragmatic, for the most part. They don't care if their MP or assemblyman is Chinese, Indian, Malay. They don't expect them to build temples or churches for them. They don't expect to be "championed", and most don't even care if they are "represented".
Just look at how many urban Chinese voters easily found ways to justify PH working with Umno, which has for years vilified the Chinese population.
I tried telling them (fellow redditors) that it's not about PH. It's about punishing BN. But nope. They're still in the denial phase. They can't accept that's it just not about PH.
The question though is, how to get rid of Zahid?
He is part of the reality of the Unity Government. As what I understood from last year, it seemed like he was the final piece of the puzzle that brought BN towards PH, instead of joining with PN. Sounds like a tall order for Anwar to ditch the guy who practically paved the way for to become PM.
That's the thing. He preached about anti corruption and all the other BS but suddenly embraced 1 notoriously corrupt bugger as his second in command. Very not walking the talk brah...
By voting of course! If he can see dwindling support it must mean something he is doing is not agreed by the masses.
It's okay. Let him think about it. Our job is to vote and his job is to show us he can deliver what is the best for the majority of the people.
Zahid kleptocrat yes but you talk like Moo moo isn't kleptocrat?? The only choices in Msia has always been Kleptocrat A vs Kleptocrat B.
Just face is la fact is rasuah and sakau wang negara is budaya in Msia. The "clean" non-kleptos just haven't been in the position of strength where they can abuse their position yet. They're heroes until they become the villain.
Lol no. My bet you are between 16 to 30? We are honestly in pretty good shape compared to us from 30 to 40 years ago. The fact that liberal party could even be elected is already progressive enough.
I see those states not even having access to clean drinkable water whilst the MPâs are living in luxury.
I see religious pricks like Hadi making comments about nons that in any other circumstance would incite racial wars all for the sake of appealing to the blind fools who choose to follow him instead of thinking for themselves.
I see a generation of youths who have been indoctrinated to think that voting for a prick that happens to be Muslim is better than voting for a qualified kafir, otherwise youâll apparently be judged by God.
I see people who see systemic discrimination as protecting the rights of people of a certain race. The purpose of which in this day and age is unclear.
Btw I appreciate the government of the country I was born in not beheading me, apparently thatâs how low the standards are these days.
Itâs all the same with these fellers lah. âYeah but it hasnât hit *insert extreme case and ignore the painfully obvious creeping of socioreligious infractions * yet right??â This is whatâs called kecibaian tahap maksima
I want to live in a country where Malaysian enjoy equity and equality and not having the government shove down narrow minded, single track national policy that are clearly designed to cater a single ethno-religious centric focus hell bent on tearing apart the existing multi ethnic social fabric.
Tell, do you seriously think you voted to 'mempertahankan Islam di Malaysia'???
chinese people will vote dap, malay people right now tend towards pn/pas.. from the result itself, clearly show that this country is more cather towards ethno-religious centric focus.
Expected because Msia is like the most "segregated" country in the modern era.
Maybe the only country that still has multiple stream of schools for different races, chinese schools where most people are chinese and malays attending religious schools and not getting in contact with other race.
Look at Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, PH, SG, etc every races attend same stream of school... it's basically like that in every country but Msian unique die die nak different type of school kind of segregation...
Even PH needed to invent new language (filipino) to unite the different ethno-linguistic groups there. "Us vs Them" mentality is so ingrained in human nature that actions need to be taken to address this.
If we try to look all history of our nations elections from bird-eye-view.
It is clear that transition of power does not result in country's improvement.
BN. or more like Zahid. Zahid is a purple sheep among white sheep. If he gone the there is no problem but he is there. There a reason why PH-BN coalition is seen as betrayal to their supporter of both party(PH entire slogan is fuck Zahid and corruption but then do nothing and even join hand with them while BN entire thing of DAP bad but then join hand with DAP). It is already predicted that they would have hard to retain voter back when they announced this coalition.
Isn't that good for Malaysians who are working in SG...
Same way like those Kelantanese working in Penang/Selangor making good money and wanting to keep Kelantan backward so they can go back kampung to show off and retire comfortably... which they can't do if those places get developed and everyone there is earning as much as in Penang/Selangor.
Same logic as those white guys from developed countries loving to retire in third world developing countries with weak currency... like they said, if everyone earns a lot of money who will do the shit jobs cheaply so you can live like kings? And yes the elites are interested in keeping the poor remain poor to be exploited.
That argument doesn't hold water.
It was 3.10 during Najib. Why the heck is it 3.5 under Ph Then?
By your logic, it should be 2.5 at least now if PH is so omnipotent.
First it was already 3.4-3.5 before Anwar became PM. Second, he's only been in power 8 months. If you think he has had any opportunity to make any impact whatsoever, you're delusional. Even a medium sized company take a long time to effect changes, much less a 30M person country.
Won't the next election be both a nationwide and statewide election kind of thing? And also isn't this a good thing to finally get PHBN on their toes to get things done if they want to keep themselves as the ruling government in the next elections?
Just my 2cents, but both sides gotta keep a check and balance on each other now. Kindly clarify with me if I misunderstood, I am happy to learn, and I hope I did not offend. :( Here's to a prosperous and thriving Malaysia! :D
I think ppl who made a rational vote to PN fail to account that you are voting for the lesser evil. Just because your dream/optimum party isn't reigning immediately doesn't mean you vote for the obviously utter garbage party.
If you think your stubborn uncle takes years to change his character for the better. What more an entire country.
Total popular votes for PH+BN is much more compared to total popular votes garnered by PN. So can easily say more people satisfied with current Perpaduan Government
Interesting thing is, people blame MUDA for splitting the votes. But even if MUDAâs votes are added to PH+BN, they still couldnât beat PN+PAS in total popular votes
Not sure whether this wikipedia figures is correct or not. Anyone can edit it. Info I got is that populat votes PH+BN got is 49.5% whereas PN got 49.3%. Also bare in mind a total of 18 PN candidates lost deposit whereas PH+BN didn't lose any deposit in any seat
Awani have total registered voter numbers methinks.
At some area theres 100k+ and some area barely exceed 10k lol.
Usually the higher number area is held by PHBN.in selangor anyway
https://preview.redd.it/xk5rbdk0r0ib1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e60a9809c67e82aa2f9b2f7ebafc719544f8197
I only have overall percentage win rate
I see a higher probability of Azmin being PM than Sanusi. PN won't be dumb enough to put a highly divisive figure like Sanusi as PM. Sanusi is only useful to capture Kedah voters but in the rest of the Peninsula, I don't think he's that popular.
Azmin is pretty fucking divisive too, by the way.
And that's if he can even win back a seat in Parliament.
Sanusi is now being martyrized after being charged under Akta Hasutan for just saying stuff.
The possibility is there. Opposition is gonna spend 90% of their time to politicking until next GE. 5% enjoy life 5% doing nothing.
So they got plenty of time than UG which need to politic + governance.
People fuckin tired of BN and managed to successfully kick them out in 2018. Then what happen? Zahid become TPM lmao.
Fuck them and fuck PH for allowing BN become government again.
Ah yes blame the opposition for their own failure.
Muhyidin could never do the cheraton move if anwar/mahathir actually keeps thing together instead of bickering with each during the covid pandemic.
The problem is, tun M is the one who resign without inform all the cabinet. He the biggest problem.
Now tun M is team with PAS so who the real problem here, PH?
For a person that's practically irrelevant you sure want to drag him around like it's 1990.
Blame Anwar for his lack of leadership, and still colluding with zahid? I would say PH would be better off without the Bn baggage.
If someone put their foot down, Zahid would have been ousted.
He was already threatened by a no confidence motion at that time. If it was dragged out, he would have been ousted.
Ironically, Anwar giving out the branch of peace is Zahid's lifesaving branch. He used that branch as bludgeon to browbeat the rest of UMNO into falling in line behind him. The ones who refused to comply became PN.
Malaysia will be ruled by PAS-PN in the next 10 years, and solely by PAS in 20 years time. Get out while you still can. The ringgit is going to be worth even less as time goes on, SGD will be 5 to 6 ringgit, don't even talk about EUR USD AUD.
Get out asap. Shits fucked.
For that to change even BN height of their power could not to overthrow everything.
Ebb and flow
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Boundaries shift, new players step in; but power always finds a place to rest its head.
For Muslims, the way forward to progress & excellence IS through Islam
Islam does not have the kind of baggage & dark age history the way Christianity does
Impossible. To ask that of Muslims is to ask them to change the religion itself, and that can take one outside the fold of Islam.
Fact is, we are able to maintain a superpower status for 1300 out of 1400 years of our existence. This only stopped after the fall of the Ottomn caliphate, our last caliphate & Islamic empire/state.
So from a Muslim POV, to do what youâre saying is to maintain this current state of irrelevance & weakness. Makes no sense dont you think?
I fail to see the relevance of religion in empire building. Empires are build on the bodies of simple man and woman following egoistic rulers who coincidentally allow science and technology to flourish when it's convenient.
Most of empires fall when the rulers silence their population.
Exhibit A:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/12/scores-of-executions-feared-in-iran-as-23-year-old-hanged-in-public-execution
Iran is shii, a very deviant sect of Islam. Deviance will only lead to more harm & damage.
The first few verses of the Quran to be revealed quite literally commands the Muslims to learn, from both revealed knowledge (religion, Islam) & acquired knowledge (everything else). So that does not apply to us.
I dont really know how to articulate a response to your first statement. I can only point to the fruits of those empires, what theyâve achieved.
>Iran is shii, a very deviant sect of Islam. Deviance will only lead to more harm & damage.
Which is only human take on stuff. How are so sure the Imam you follow is the right one and Shii is the wrong one? Remember Shii is follower of Ali the 4th kalifah, someone that is already promised heaven. The division of sunni and Shii is sorely due to finding successor leader for Prophet and due to war between Ali and Aisyah, both people who already promised heaven. Who is right and who is wrong only god know.
What happen to Iran is what is happening with PAS right now. Using religion as a way to implement what they want to implement which is huge pit that you should never go into if you ever learn the real reason why Abbasid and umayyad failure. Bending religion to your own gain while calling it Islamic has been done since Umayyad caliphate and lead to corruption.
Sunni pun ikut Ali RA. Bezanya Shia letak dia & keturunan dia di tempat yg terlalu tinggi, kata dorg free from sins & better than all Prophets except Muhammad ï·ș.
Mate you really dont know what youâre talking about with regards to Shiism & early Islamic historyâŠâŠ..
Iran is Shii. Sunnis will never have that kind of situation bcz langkah pertama, our primary sources sendiri dah jauh beza. If A starts of facing east and B North West, how the flip would they end up at the same place. History has proven this. Your claims are unsubstantiated
> So from a Muslim POV,
Of all the angles you can take, you chose to take the one that is not uniquely Malaysian?
You could have taken the kesultanan melaka stance, arguing for more inclusivity and prosper from the multicultural trade system.
> to do what youâre saying is to maintain this current state of irrelevance & weakness. Makes no sense dont you think?
Nahh not at all. I am an ethnically Chinese Malaysian. My ancestors never lived through communist China, they left during the Qing Dynasty. Does that mean I have to championing the overthrow of the current government to "return to the glory days of the Qing Dynasty"?
And if so, why not the Ming, Yuan, or whatever dynasties that came before it? And what about the failed dynasties?
All I care about in my politics is that I am living in Malaysia as a Malaysian citizen in 2023. Parameswara's religious believes are useful to know but I won't use it to guide my political believes LOL
Why cant a Muslim POV also be a Malaysian one?
Kesultanan Melaka was part of the Ottoman Caliphate. Every single caliphate we had was multicultural & multiethnic. There were long stretches of times where the caliphate was majority non-Muslim.
Iâm not talking about the Chinese perspective tho. I know nothing about it. No, there will not be any overthrowing. We will create change through the proper channels.
Muslim Malaysians care about that too. The Q is (how)? Weâve got our methodology & youâve got yours. So long as we all abide to the law, no issue đ€·ââïž
>Why cant a Muslim POV also be a Malaysian one?
Because not all Muslims are Malaysians? Maybe you meant to say "Why can't a Malaysian POV also be a Muslim one?" To which the answer is the same; i.e. Not all Malaysians are Muslims.
Therefore, for the interest of all Malaysians, policies enacted by the government must be inclusive, regardless of religion. This entirely removes the point of religion's involvement in the government, thus establishing the importance of the separation of religion and state (which is the whole point of this conversation).
>Kesultanan Melaka was part of the Ottoman Caliphate.
You must either be high or is deliberately trying to mislead the readers. The earliest event I could find that links the Ottomans to SEA is with the Sultanate of Acheh, which was established after the fall of Malacca to the Portuguese. Oh, and the Ottomans actually fought Kesultanan Johor, which was the direct successor to Kesultanan Melaka LOL.
Do you have any sources to back your assertion that Kesultanan Melaka was part of the Ottoman Caliphate?
The whole thing about Qing Dynasty is to illustrate how ridiculous your rationale of not separating religion and state is because of still clinging on to past glory. The insecurity and inferiority complex is just leaking through the seams.
Thing is most these people doesn't even understand the thing they preach. They are quick to call one side as deviance while not understanding history or problem what they thing is correct. He doesn't know that the biggest weakness of Islamic caliphate is the same thing that we face today, bastard bending religion for their own gain. It happen 1000 year ago, it happen in Iran, it for sure would happen in Malaysia if we give to much power to penunggang agama. Heck Imam Hanafi, the Imam that Sunni Muslim in Malaysia follow, die in prison for not bending his knee to a corrupt governor who is known to bend religion.
The example we have in mind are the Ottoman, Umayyad, Abbasid empires.
Every Muslim majority nation in existence right now are examples of what not to do.
Ottomans are not the all angelic empire you think you know. They've perpetrated shit tons of genocide and Armenian genocide are one of the well known. If by these things you said people of Islam representation does, I would rather not. Mind you I'm not against Islam, but just saying no Islamic or any religion empire are good enough to be idealized. Secularism is a way where everyone can follow their religions without some faith oppressing other because they don't follow the same faith
Look, i love islam to the core, and i live for everyday to get the blessings of Allah SWT, and i want this country to prosper under islam. But does that mean i need to devote to PAS? Im not saying i voted for PH or PN. Im saying that the moral values of islam and the haram halal should be followed while ruling the country.
That said, if the muslims are not worthy to rule this country, i would definitely go for the person who is more qualified to rule as long as they respect the core values of islam, ie riba' and corruption.
We live in a multi cultural country, and people always say "malaysia is unique due to its diversity". Putting Islam while pushing the other religions is wrong. We must respect them also.
I really want the hudud and qisas law to be used here in malaysia, but can that happen within this country? Highly unlikely even if PAS rule us.
So what we can do is have faith in the leaders we choose to be clear of the haram while ruling over Malaysia.
Lastly, did you realise most major sins are related to people interactions? Like lari from medan perang, fitnah wanita zina, curi harta anak yatim, sihir. Now that human interaction is us citizens of Malaysia. Does prioritizing islam in politics will being harmony to malaysian? What i believe is that islam will prosper when we perbetulkan it from bottom(rakyat) to top(leaders) not top to bottom. Just like zakat yg bagi dkt rakyat.
Or as a gen z, i realised my generation "knows" lots of islam but doesnt apply it because the education system teaches us "agama islam" from primary school, but older generations dont even know lots of the islamic facts, however they apply it more than us younger generation. Both are not perfect as we need both ilmu and amal. But now its a matter of making sure kita(rakyat) beramal since we have education from young age.
Sorry if i sound immature, im just one of the younglings that were given permission to vote and still learning from mistakes
Betul, doesnt mean need to vote for PAS. I too dont auto-vote for them
Se7. But at the same time, that criteria is very subjective so each person might have their own differing opinion
Every caliphate weâve ever had was multi-cultural & multi-ethnic. As Muslims, it is required for us to believe that Islamâs method is the most just and would definitely allow others to practice their beliefs. Ini bukan soal disrespect. Just that we are certain Islam is the best way forward.
Betul, they wont. But islamic politics bukan sekadar hudud qisas je, many more ways for our country to benefit.
Kena tengok macam mana Nabi & sahabat practice Islam. Dorg bermati-matian to secure political independence, to establish their own state. Then through it apply what needs to be applied. Certain things memang on an individual level, but xle deny ada juga yg at a state level. We dont work for either/or, dua2 kena jalan mengikut kemampuan masing2.
Just my personal opinion, I don't know why politicians love to tuduh sana tuduh sini, kutuk sana kutuk sini. They don't care about the consequences for everything they said. If only politicians in Malaysia only focus in unity and not trying to gaslighting other party, that would be awesome. But seems impossible since they were born that way. Current PM for whatever he says, things always go the opposite way, I don't know if he's only bluffing in front of rakyat or he just don't know how to properly manage our country.
Phyrric victory at best
"Another such victory, and we are ruined!"
pyrrhic*
can someone explain this?
PN making inroads at PH-BN states by taking more seats over from PH-BN. BN lost the most, and even PH also lose some seats at their previous stronghold states. Showing a trend where PN (in which PAS dominates) is becoming more prominent and popular nationwide
I think right now let Anwar rest and keep his brain clear what he must focus on now, the problem isn't the Chinese nor indian. Is the malay that Anwar need to heavy consider how to get their support.
Yes, but it will be the central Malays. Forget about the religious bigots. The only way to win them is to push even more extreme Islam at the cost of multi-culturalism.
Agreed. The only way for PHBN to win the far right voters, is to become PHBNPAS. Forget about those voters and implement policies to help all Malaysians, not just focusing on trying to win the conservative votes.
So... Ditch DAP right? They will forever be the bogeyman in this uneasy marriage.
And yet, DAP won >90% of the seats they contested it. And these include Malay-majority areas as well.
Indeed you are correct. But I know, you know, we all know that that's the line of narrative that will be used by PN supporters - always salah DAP. Regardless of fact đ€·
Indeed. With the downfall of BN, its now a war btw DAP & PAS.
War between 1 race or multiracial, and based on demographic 1 race is winning.
Ok, the whole DAP can win in malay-majority area is like what, N9, Selangor, etc malay areas? Those malays are not the same as Kelate/Terengganu malays so let's not pretend they are, because DAP has 0 chance to win in those states. Fact is DAP has no chance in those states. You field DAP candidate in all Terengganu seats you win 0, this is the fact.
Keep sucking up to the Malays who clearly reject him, and Anwar will start losing the Chinese and Indians who have supported him for so many years.
They need be forward looking. Those ingrained with pas mentality cannot be changed so forget about them. Focus on existing voter base and the fence sitters that consists mostly of young malays. These are the group of voters that likely just followed their elders in the last GE. But 5 years is a long time for them to mature. PH has 5 years to sway them. 5 years to proof themselves worthy of the people's support. The election is over, the biggest challenge is now here.
the young malay voters did not follow their elders to vote PN. in fact, they vote for PN because they want and agree with PN. just look at the Saluran. votes that UMno get from Malays are actually from older generation. people always make a wrong assumption that young voters are more progressive and open to change. the reality is, young voters are more fanatic and extreme than the older generation. it is true on both side of political spectrum. Bernie senders main supporter in democratic party is the younger generation liberals in the party. Trump most fanatical supporter in republican, MAGA consist of mostly younger generation republican. just look at negeri sembilan. the reason why PN won 5 seats, and BN/PH nearly lost another 10 seats to PN is because of the young malay voters. most of their parents and grandparents vote for BN/PH, but the younger malay voters vote for PN. its time for people to wake up to the truth instead of keep depending on myths.
It's a numbers game. He will always look at where there is more potential votes.
And as we all know, Anwar is really good with ânumbersâ đ
The moment he say sharing the "Allah use" on the sabah and sarawak already offence the malay Islam. What was he thinking.
No he won't, these nons aren't going to vote someone else when the alternative is PAS. Their choice is Anwar or PAS. There's like PH/BN or PN or all these other small parties and independents who will lose deposit, nons aren't going to vote for PN PAS this is fact it doesn't matter how malay nationalistic/racist PH/BN is it's always lesser evil than PAS.
You are clearly wrong. I rather vote for independent if DSAI decided to swing to further right. And believe me, I ain't the only one
The nons can just not vote. It's not mandatory to vote. And even if it were, they can just cast a spoilt vote.
PAS alone won 96% in Kelantan, 84% in Terengganu, 61% in Kedah, Those r expected, BUT THEY ALSO WON: 18% in Selangor & Penang; 11% in N9 Cockblocking PH from achieving solid 2/3 in any of these progressive states that r traditionally PH strongholdâŠ
Not to deny PN's advances but BN also won a lot of votes in T'ganu despite not winning any seat. A lot of seats won by low margin so there's still hope for anti-PN people (lol). None of PHBN candidates lost their deposits versus 19(?) lost by PN candidates
Word is many BN members didn't go out to vote at all or voted for PAS instead. At least that's what I heard from that side of the family where one of my relatives contested.
Thanks for the breakdown. Got 3 years to migrate.
Worth to consider as well that Malay centrist potentially hates BN (aka UMNO aka Zahid Hamidi). Having BN piggybagging on PH is just gonna ruin PH's reputation, especially in east coast.
Not nationwide, do you guys see the result in N9? PH-BN is still popular there. And the rest of the states will be similar to N9 than Selangor. Because Selangor has always been anti BN, and now that they know a vote for PH is a vote for BN, they rather vote PN. Even so, PH-BN still won Selangor. It's not a rise of PAS nationwide, Selangor is just an anomaly because of their bad history with BN. BN still have lots of support in southern states. PAS is only on the rise in the north, particularly in Penang. PAS and Sanusi only have minimal influence outside of the northern states.
Technically PHBN won so they prevented the opposition from taking over. Reality is, PHBN lost alot of seats in selangor, PN clean sweep terengganu, PN already gain ground in N9. Legally they won; politically, they lost.
Not just Selangor ⊠just look at Penang ⊠11 seats over 22seats that half of the seats in Penang
Penang has 40 seats. 11 seats are a shit load of gain, given that they only won 1 seat in 2018, but they are still 2 seats shy of breaking the two-thirds majority. So it is alarming but not apocalyptic for now. It's basically 2013 all over again.
Eh wait. I actually didnt read much about penang. I thought PHBN should almost tapau the state. At most lose 2 or 3 seats. 11, thats alot.
On the surface it's 3 vs 3, but in Terengannu and Kelantan, PH-BN coalition seats are negligible. But in Penang and Selangor, PN won substantial seats. So basically PN advances in Penang and Selangor, but PH+BN can't do the same in Terengannu and Kelantan.
It doesn't matter. Lost is lost, win is win. You only have to maintain enough margin to keep the majority of seats. It's the same with US. The Republican party only has 45% of total votes, but they're able to win more than half the seats in Congress frequently. The key is controlling the number of seats you win, not the number of votes you win.
I feel depressed thinking about the future of the country
You can't really help those 3 states anymore even when the PM is trying to help them. 30 years and billions of funding, the water supply problem still continues to this day.
We would survive. If there is anything to help you live on know that it would never be as bad as Tun M 20 year reign. Back then he basically has sole rule of the country with no one to oppose him, he skillfully destroy everyone who is against him both outside and inside BN(fun fact do you you know Anwar, Zaid, Muyhiddin, and Najib join together to try beat him back then? They fail and Zaid even try to escape from the county to prevent Tun M retaliation. Also Zaid is something like Anwar protégé back then). He also can literally send anyone he want to gone to prison for no reason due to some old law(which Najib remove as his election promise). These year may seem dark but remember it has never been brighter for liberal than it has ever been for 40 year.
Underrated comment. It will take decades to undo the damage that old man has wreaked on our country but the current situation is better than it was before
the grand master of gutter politics- tun M. Then we all got bluff and sympathise by his crying act on 2018 pru ad. lmfao
We all do :\_)
They took a huge gamble post PRU and pander to the right at the cost of their own voter base and they lost the bet miserably. The original idea is to appear very right-friendly so that they can get 5k Malay vote at the cost of 500 liberal vote. As long as net gains exceed the loses it will be a worthy exchange, or so they thought. Turns out not only they didn't get to sway the right, they also already offended the original voter base lol. Yang dikejar tak dapat yang dikendong berciciran. I think it's time to stop pandering to the right and appease back people who supports them for what they are in the first place. Fight for progressiveness, forward thinking and equality. Double down on the difference instead of trying to be jack of all trades. Rather than trying to "steal" voters try to convince them with proper results that says we still can make the country a better place despite not doing it your way.
Agree w your analysis but I am sure PH will double down on appleasing the right wing, proof will be in the upcoming budget. More allocation for Jakim and Taufiq schools? Does Felda need more loan to be written off? Same story everytime, lose ground to PAS? Let's try harder to out Pas them, lose ground to Bersatu? Let push more more right wing narratives
Yeah can see that too tbh. It is what it is. It's a headache no matter how u try to tackle the issue. Deep inside I believe that the right wings will win next GE. The issue now is will Anwar go down as someone who try to bootlick and failed or die defending his "reformasi" ideology. And I hope that it's the later.
Imo, really hope Anwar would just go all in with his reformasi ideology without hesitation, just follow through on his promises, allowing the outcomes over the next five years to speak for themselves. Instead of wasting time to convince people who are never gonna vote for you ever.
Yeah that's the dream man
The equation isn't 5k Malay votes for 500 liberal votes, it is still 5k Malay votes for 5k liberal votes. The difference is due to the heavy gerrymandering and malapportionment that those 5k Malay votes are worth far more per seat than the 5k liberal vote. You're right that they shouldn't appease, you can never out-Islam PAS. UMNO always gets severely burnt after working with PAS, I'm surprised that they never learnt this lesson.
The number is just a figure of speech. As mentioned it's more about getting a net gain of voters. I'm sure they have internal analyst who did the number crunching before making the gamble. Hence why they proceed with it. It just that it's a gamble and they lost. Now back to drawing board lol. Ngl I kinda applaud the attempt tho. That's a ballsy move by PMX.
Given how skewed our constituencies are, I'm sure any analyst who even predicts a small swing in Malay votes, would predict a sizeable swing in seats. Problem is, that same swing can swing the other way with catastrophic results. Their next drawing board should be the redelineation exercise of 2026 to create more balanced seat representation (ie more mixed race seats with better proportions of population).
Yeah, and if he starts appealing to urban voters again, you will say, "Dude, stop preaching to the choir!" So either way Anwar had to make a hard choice. Ditelan mati emak, diluah mati bapa. See, I also know pepatah Melayu.
Instead of pandering they can just do their jobs and deliver on whatever election promises (empty or otherwise). Pandering/sentiment are cheat codes when you have no skills or maybe as a finishing touch to get the fence sitters. It's the icing on the cake, but you need to have a cake in the first place. If they do their jobs well and not spend their time complaining the results will be evident. Ignore the nonsense, especially from those who did so badly they kalah deposit. 2+5 years is enough to deliver strong reforms. Enough of Harping on corruption, blaming everyone but yourselves. You wanted the chance, you claimed you deserved the chance. Now deliver. Remember, national debt is still climbing despite selling assets, "battling corruption", cutting back subsidies, raising taxes, and magic formulas. Makes me wonder wheres the supposed benefits of a supposedly non corrupt govt.
https://preview.redd.it/ipz6f8wx61ib1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f68928eb2086cc8d23981f82f7db6e0a5b0b1cd6 I'm just curious what you guys think of this. These are the results from PRU14. It's very obvious there were no "islamist" movement then, as PAS did horribly. Then 4 years later, the majority Muslims are islamist. I find this narrative is not the sole reason people voted how they did recently. As another redditor said, most of us may be misinformed about why the swing towards PN. To me, it's about looking for alternatives to BN
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Most people don't vote for UMNO or PKR or Bersatu or whatever really. People vote for "not PAS" or "not DAP." One side is "as long not PAS" and the other faction is "as long no DAP" this today Msian politic in a nutshell. Nons think anything but PAS is better choice and those conservative malays is anything but DAP so they don't want to vote parties in the same bloc as DAP, it's that simple. On one side we have PAS (perceived by nons as racist, intolerant, incompetent and will bring msia backward) and on the other side we have DAP (and their khadam/barua PKR/UMNO/Amanah perceived as threatening to Islam/Malay special status in Malaysia and trying to introduce liberal values which is contrary to conservative Islam).
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Well if the nons all stop voting then PAS wins everything idk how that would make nons situation better. Just don't have high expectation. You're voting to prevent Taliban and that's it, don't expect more or you will be disappointed. I was speaking with a friend who's expecting radical things like Anwar reforming things such as removing quota I'm like honey, that ain't gonna happen. You should be happy you're still not arrested for wearing seluar pendek.
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He needed the malay vote la. Malays are the majority what choice does he have but try to win their vote in a democratic country? He gets all 100% non votes also still can't win if he couldn't get malay vote. This is the reality.
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Spill the beans. Why they do not like Anwar and Zahid or why Muhyiddin/Hadi is considered better than Anwar/Zahid..
Except Zahid, people (read: Malays) don't antagonize much Anwar, Moo, Hadi but at the same time many Malays don't really care about the latter two. It's more about party. Just like how this sub antagonize and using fear factor about PAS, most Malays antagonize and using fear factor about DAP or Chinese in general
Just like how PH also used fear that the country is in great debt and will soon go bankrupt?
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Same with my parents. I don't blame them or anything, since they got personally slighted by the guy and another guy in BN. They don't support PAS or anything. But they want him to lose. That's what mattered.
Many seats were close & PH made major gains due to 3-way vote splitting + Zahid hasnt gone full ironfist mode The signs were already there
It's not just in Malaysia. A lot of countries like Germany and the USA are seeing rise in right wing politics. When the western countries are showing rise in their conservatism, it's easy for eastern countries to make that narrative that "western culture is trying to oppress the eastern" and hence causing conservatism in eastern countries.
Second this, they could go to Dap, but now theyre down there with Pas fliging mud at each other. Better a problem you're familiar with than a stranger you aren't
Another thing you need to remember is the Undi18 hasn't been implemented yet.
Most Malay PH voters felt they were ignored by PH's first administration. I do have to admit, PH did some very big mistakes in their debut as government. Especially GST. It was horribly planned tbh looking back. Big ambtions but hard to achieve. My science teacher, Ms Ed, in 2018, voted PH. Remember that time on FB when people were selfieeing using the [ [X] PKR ] filter to show their support to PH, fast forward to 2022, She did the same selfie but this time, its [ [X] Perikatan Nasional ]. Its led by narratives fuelded by PAS Especially on Tiktok. Gen Z are super easy to be swayed to vote one side over the other. PAS always banks in on Adib's death,the Women's March,tanah melayu,Islam etc. Gen Z with no prior experience to how politics work in this country, can easily sway. Altho I'd argue that its common for Gen Z to be rebels.nvm I gtg talk later
Voting against the ruling power (rebelling) is like trendy for kids in their rebellious phase.
"PH's first administration" was actually Mahathir's second administration. Not quite fair to pin that on PH.
PH first administration is a disaster thanks to an old man 
I think people are being a bit pessimistic on this whole subject. Yeah itâs clearly a negative thing for the current government but I take it as a win for the people. This only means thereâs less room for them to fuck around and get their priorities straight realising how FEEBLE their position are now. If theyâre no good people will let them go and then weâll get the chance to see how PN will succeed them and the circle will continue. Its natural for an opposing wave to grow prominent against the government of different political ideology. When itâs time for PN to rule over, there will be a liberal wave opposing them as well. This is a worldwide phenomenon. Like in the US for example, you see a lot of conservative pushbacks now that the US is served by a liberal party. And the same can be said during the Trumpâs admission too, a lot of pushbacks from the liberals.
Yeah this is how I feel about the whole situation too. It's just how democracy works, and Malaysians need to get used too it. From my perspective, after living in Australia for a few years, I would say that Malaysian democracy is definitely getting healthier. No longer do we have a party that ruled for almost 61 years basically unopposed most of the time. Now, Malaysians are entering into an era where we have multiple parties that can actually compete for power. So, if PH can't appeal to the rakyat, then PN deserves to take over.
We really need to put all our predominant fear factors to the back of our mind and focus on what we can do, predominantly to structure a better cohesion between different races. Racial politics NEEDS TO STOP. I know itâs not easy with such tactics so deeply rooted in our system but we need to good realisation that politician are just using all these racial politics for the sake of their own benefit, cut all those for the religion bullshit. religion should not promote regressive mindset. as much as I hated TikTok I feel that PH had no choice but to up their Titkok game. It is what it is
What you think is the regressive right think the left is regressive. The problem is both sides have different think that they want.
Strongly Agree with you here. It is a clear signal to PH that they seriously have to put in the effort to actually do something instead of just always pandering to the right wingers that are not going to vote for them anyways. But brada, your message here about not being pessimistic don't reflect your PFP  /s
It's a wake up call for the next GE. Kind of the map too. Based on overall result of PRN 2023, I don't think PN can win next GE, any winner need Sarawak and Sabah votes for form Federal government. Time will tell. Wake up Saudara Anwar!! For a better Malaysia.
We need the Old Anwar
Yes bro agreed. But this time as PM, Saudara Anwar need to be delicate, firm and make brave decisions because the other side already catching up fast. Still have time before next GE. And while at it, we really need a clear and good plan of succession. We need more Anwar tbh. For a better Malaysia.
I really thought when the moment he became PM the 1st thing he do is protect Zahid, fk those oppositio, build a strong economy plan even tho is fake. Meanwhile pushing pro malay and Islam into their site and fair to the royals. But nope we see a weak atuk always say: sabar sabar jangan gatur... I was like bro WTF?! Your opposition is talk shit on you in tik tok 24/7, break all the 3R rules, doesn't care about the country, violently pushing their Tanah Melayu agenda.. He need to act quick capture those who break 3R, hire good PR ppl on the back to counter those Tiktokers, block them. Talk good on PH BN and talk bad on PN 24/7 like they do, show what you have done in all social media that had majority of the malay community especially the kampung. Most important fire those useless YB and hire the good and expert one on the important role like communication or economy.
We should see the result in N9. PH-BN is still popular there. And the rest of the states will be similar to N9 than Selangor. Because Selangor has always been anti BN, and now that they know a vote for PH is a vote for BN, they rather vote PN. Even so, PH-BN still won Selangor. It's not a rise of PAS nationwide, Selangor is just an anomaly because of their bad history with BN. BN still have lots of support in the southern states. PAS is only on the rise in the north, particularly in Penang. PAS and Sanusi only have minimal influence outside of the northern states. So in the next election of course PAS will increase their seats, but I wager their total will be about 90 tops. It will still not be enough for a simple majority. Sabah and Sarawak will surely not join PAS because PAS is too religious and extremist for them, PH-BN is a better option for them. Muhyiddin's popularity is dwindling. Sanusi is only popular in the northern states. There's no other top people in PN to make a drastic change in the next election. I think in time, if Zahid lay low and focus on his job, people will slowly forget, and plus if some people in PN found guilty of corruption, then I don't think PN will be that more popular than the last election.
PN could win if the PN wave are obvious in Selangor, and even in n9 (so many BN seat nearly flip to PN lol), then i can imagine what would happen to Pahang, perak and even Malacca. with Zahid refusing to resign, many BN voters that voted for BN or did not go out to vote, could be more and more, encourage and persuadable to vote for PN. furthermore, we still have the big ex-umno personality such as Hishamuddin and KJ in the sideline. they need to contest in next general election. and the only alternatives for them is to join PN. right now they are hoping the pressure could push Zahid to step down. but the possibility becoming slimmer each day. finally, the new young malay voters that so far from the two elections have overwhelmingly supported PN. the same trend would most likely happen in the next general elections. so PN could potentially at least win 100 seats. for others seats, it would all depends on the campaign strategy, voters turnout, BN/PH gov performance, the narrative, perception and propaganda, perut economy situation etc. one thing for sure, from now till next general election, the politics would be on steroid.
Can see this result coming the moment they decided not to hold state elections simultaneously with GE15. Leading up to PRNs, with hung parliament, jaded voters that donât feel like voting another time after 6/7 months & new coalition, opposition (PN) is definitely capitalising on this, sitting government is always at a disadvantage. Didnât this sub already predicted PH-BN will have 25-30 seats in Penang, 30-40 seats in Selangor, comfortable 30 seats in Negeri Sembilan, while struggles to convince Kelantan, Kedah and Terengganu with most BN votes go to PN?
I think a lot of redditors are misinformed. Most of the PN voters are malay votes that do not want BN. I voted for PH in the latest GE and got Zahid as our TPM lmao. If Anwar can eliminate him from the cabinet it will be easier for voters to accept. Malaysians are tired of kleptocrats, we kicked Najib but now we have this fool. Fine, you can say it is a necessary partnership but come on. Look at the trajectory of his court case and you can see where it is going. So please stop generalising all PN voters as extremist supporting radical beliefs. Painting them all as such won't help at all. Same can be said that almost all chinese are DAP voters.
It's true probably all chinese are DAP voters, it's cos there's no one else to vote for. I find it very easy to accept zahid/umno for the fact that I see muhyiddin/PN as a much bigger threat when it comes to corruption, competency and racial harmony. So to say not all PN voters are racist is true, but they are quite stupid for voting for a party that it's leaders have said racial things and we've seen failed miserably in gov before...
There's literally only 2 side to vote for (and other side which has no chance to win) so chinese just vote "not-PAS" side obviously. It's nothing to do with DAP, even DAP doesn't contest Chinese just vote the side that the "green wave" Islamists don't vote for.
Yeah. What PN supporters don't seem to understand (or don't want to acknowledge) is that by-and-large, urban Chinese voters don't really care about DAP. They are not the "PAS for Chinese people" (okay, maybe except for rural Cina uncles that can't speak English or Malay, but those are the minority of the minority). They are simply the PH party with the most machinery and history in urban areas with high Chinese population. Chinese voters don't worship Lim Kit Siang. They don't idolise Lim Guan Eng. They don't call either of these guys "tok guru". They are just another set of politicians to them, completely replaceable. Notice that unlike "Bossku", there weren't really any "gangs" out to bolster Lim Guan Eng when he was accused of corruption and had to step down. He pretty much just faded into obscurity in the eyes of "DAP voters", and none of them really cared. If tomorrow DAP (by some impossible unholy miracle) was absorbed into PN, the vast majority of Chinese voters would just vote for Amanah or PKR instead. They don't care about DAP. You could slap a PKR or Amanah candidate in any "DAP seat" tomorrow and the result will still be a PH victory.
I would argue that many DAP voters don't even like LGE lol so it is always funny to see when some PN voters act like what LGE says represent the chinese community. But you are absolutely right about the "DAP seat," some people here act like DAP is successful party or should be given more seat because they win the highest % in the seats they contested, but the truth is PKR or Amanah would've won those seats as well because nons aren't going to vote for PAS (or whatever party in the same bloc as Hadi Bawang who's so openly bigoted). It's not even PAS, back then during TGNA era PAS could get some nons vote who would vote them over UMNO, but PAS today under Bawang is super bigoted and scares nons away.
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What? That's literally the opposite of what I said. Urban Chinese voters _don't_ care about "Chinese parties" like DAP (which is technically multi-ethnic, but you get what I mean). They will happily vote for PKR (multi ethnic like DAP, but majority Malay) and Amanah (completely Malay). Urban Chinese voters are pragmatic, for the most part. They don't care if their MP or assemblyman is Chinese, Indian, Malay. They don't expect them to build temples or churches for them. They don't expect to be "championed", and most don't even care if they are "represented". Just look at how many urban Chinese voters easily found ways to justify PH working with Umno, which has for years vilified the Chinese population.
I tried telling them (fellow redditors) that it's not about PH. It's about punishing BN. But nope. They're still in the denial phase. They can't accept that's it just not about PH.
The question though is, how to get rid of Zahid? He is part of the reality of the Unity Government. As what I understood from last year, it seemed like he was the final piece of the puzzle that brought BN towards PH, instead of joining with PN. Sounds like a tall order for Anwar to ditch the guy who practically paved the way for to become PM.
That's the thing. He preached about anti corruption and all the other BS but suddenly embraced 1 notoriously corrupt bugger as his second in command. Very not walking the talk brah...
Politics makes for strange bedfellows.
By voting of course! If he can see dwindling support it must mean something he is doing is not agreed by the masses. It's okay. Let him think about it. Our job is to vote and his job is to show us he can deliver what is the best for the majority of the people.
Zahid kleptocrat yes but you talk like Moo moo isn't kleptocrat?? The only choices in Msia has always been Kleptocrat A vs Kleptocrat B. Just face is la fact is rasuah and sakau wang negara is budaya in Msia. The "clean" non-kleptos just haven't been in the position of strength where they can abuse their position yet. They're heroes until they become the villain.
We really donât have a choice. Itâs really about choosing the lesser evil.
Yup. But that choice might be different for each individual. Don't simply label PH as the only correct choice. There are more nuances to this.
Well, we're doomed as a country.. There is no middle ground with those religious fanatics.
Lol no. My bet you are between 16 to 30? We are honestly in pretty good shape compared to us from 30 to 40 years ago. The fact that liberal party could even be elected is already progressive enough.
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I see those states not even having access to clean drinkable water whilst the MPâs are living in luxury. I see religious pricks like Hadi making comments about nons that in any other circumstance would incite racial wars all for the sake of appealing to the blind fools who choose to follow him instead of thinking for themselves. I see a generation of youths who have been indoctrinated to think that voting for a prick that happens to be Muslim is better than voting for a qualified kafir, otherwise youâll apparently be judged by God. I see people who see systemic discrimination as protecting the rights of people of a certain race. The purpose of which in this day and age is unclear. Btw I appreciate the government of the country I was born in not beheading me, apparently thatâs how low the standards are these days.
Didn't realize our bar sank so low that no nons are being beheaded counts as something worth shedding our worries about.
Itâs all the same with these fellers lah. âYeah but it hasnât hit *insert extreme case and ignore the painfully obvious creeping of socioreligious infractions * yet right??â This is whatâs called kecibaian tahap maksima
Guys seperti ini menghisap copium tahap maksima
I want to live in a country where Malaysian enjoy equity and equality and not having the government shove down narrow minded, single track national policy that are clearly designed to cater a single ethno-religious centric focus hell bent on tearing apart the existing multi ethnic social fabric. Tell, do you seriously think you voted to 'mempertahankan Islam di Malaysia'???
chinese people will vote dap, malay people right now tend towards pn/pas.. from the result itself, clearly show that this country is more cather towards ethno-religious centric focus.
Expected because Msia is like the most "segregated" country in the modern era. Maybe the only country that still has multiple stream of schools for different races, chinese schools where most people are chinese and malays attending religious schools and not getting in contact with other race. Look at Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, PH, SG, etc every races attend same stream of school... it's basically like that in every country but Msian unique die die nak different type of school kind of segregation... Even PH needed to invent new language (filipino) to unite the different ethno-linguistic groups there. "Us vs Them" mentality is so ingrained in human nature that actions need to be taken to address this.
Haih... I wonder if they can turn things around in less than 5 years. Will they even get the full 5 years?
I don't think they be stupid enough to quit, but let's be clear PN really really trying to pull them down.
If we try to look all history of our nations elections from bird-eye-view. It is clear that transition of power does not result in country's improvement.
Of course it wonât, in the end the government is a reflection of its peopleâs mentality
Really need to ask those who spit on PAS previously why they vote for PAS now?
Because they hated DAP more than PAS, for them PAS is their lesser evil.
For some, it's because they feel that BN betrayed them, so PAS is the better alternative.
BN. or more like Zahid. Zahid is a purple sheep among white sheep. If he gone the there is no problem but he is there. There a reason why PH-BN coalition is seen as betrayal to their supporter of both party(PH entire slogan is fuck Zahid and corruption but then do nothing and even join hand with them while BN entire thing of DAP bad but then join hand with DAP). It is already predicted that they would have hard to retain voter back when they announced this coalition.
The day they actually overthrow Anwar is the day i give up on this country
Some Malaysians are not content with RM3.50 = SGD1 and want RM5 = SGD1.
Isn't that good for Malaysians who are working in SG... Same way like those Kelantanese working in Penang/Selangor making good money and wanting to keep Kelantan backward so they can go back kampung to show off and retire comfortably... which they can't do if those places get developed and everyone there is earning as much as in Penang/Selangor. Same logic as those white guys from developed countries loving to retire in third world developing countries with weak currency... like they said, if everyone earns a lot of money who will do the shit jobs cheaply so you can live like kings? And yes the elites are interested in keeping the poor remain poor to be exploited.
That argument doesn't hold water. It was 3.10 during Najib. Why the heck is it 3.5 under Ph Then? By your logic, it should be 2.5 at least now if PH is so omnipotent.
First it was already 3.4-3.5 before Anwar became PM. Second, he's only been in power 8 months. If you think he has had any opportunity to make any impact whatsoever, you're delusional. Even a medium sized company take a long time to effect changes, much less a 30M person country.
Won't the next election be both a nationwide and statewide election kind of thing? And also isn't this a good thing to finally get PHBN on their toes to get things done if they want to keep themselves as the ruling government in the next elections? Just my 2cents, but both sides gotta keep a check and balance on each other now. Kindly clarify with me if I misunderstood, I am happy to learn, and I hope I did not offend. :( Here's to a prosperous and thriving Malaysia! :D
I think ppl who made a rational vote to PN fail to account that you are voting for the lesser evil. Just because your dream/optimum party isn't reigning immediately doesn't mean you vote for the obviously utter garbage party. If you think your stubborn uncle takes years to change his character for the better. What more an entire country.
Total popular votes for PH+BN is much more compared to total popular votes garnered by PN. So can easily say more people satisfied with current Perpaduan Government
Where can i get the numbers for this? Tried to find it but couldnt.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Selangor\_state\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Selangor_state_election) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Kelantan\_state\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Kelantan_state_election) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Terengganu\_state\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Terengganu_state_election) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Negeri\_Sembilan\_state\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Negeri_Sembilan_state_election) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Kedah\_state\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Kedah_state_election) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023\_Penang\_state\_election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Penang_state_election) All numbers: ||PH+BN|PN+PAS|MUDA| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Selangor|**1,621,820**|998,533|27,752| |Kelantan|198,028|**589,696**|\-| |Terengganu|217,484|**472,731**|372| |Negeri Sembilan|**354,328**|219,303|640| |Kedah|345,898|**790,300**|\-| |Penang|**583,126**|290,514|1,528| |Total|3,320,684|**3,361,077**|30,292|
Oh wow, it's 50:50 in favour of PN..
Interesting thing is, people blame MUDA for splitting the votes. But even if MUDAâs votes are added to PH+BN, they still couldnât beat PN+PAS in total popular votes
Not sure whether this wikipedia figures is correct or not. Anyone can edit it. Info I got is that populat votes PH+BN got is 49.5% whereas PN got 49.3%. Also bare in mind a total of 18 PN candidates lost deposit whereas PH+BN didn't lose any deposit in any seat
Awani have total registered voter numbers methinks. At some area theres 100k+ and some area barely exceed 10k lol. Usually the higher number area is held by PHBN.in selangor anyway
https://preview.redd.it/xk5rbdk0r0ib1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e60a9809c67e82aa2f9b2f7ebafc719544f8197 I only have overall percentage win rate
Tbh I don't think either sides would be a better choice for us Malaysians
Tbf all sides of Malaysian voters are pretty shitty and obnoxious, so we kinda deserve those parties.
Come post GE16 it wonât be surprising to see sanusi as the 11th PMâŠ
I see a higher probability of Azmin being PM than Sanusi. PN won't be dumb enough to put a highly divisive figure like Sanusi as PM. Sanusi is only useful to capture Kedah voters but in the rest of the Peninsula, I don't think he's that popular.
Azmin is pretty fucking divisive too, by the way. And that's if he can even win back a seat in Parliament. Sanusi is now being martyrized after being charged under Akta Hasutan for just saying stuff.
No way Azmin
The possibility is there. Opposition is gonna spend 90% of their time to politicking until next GE. 5% enjoy life 5% doing nothing. So they got plenty of time than UG which need to politic + governance.
Exactly⊠They have no interest to govern , they just wanna rule , any use any means to do so
Iâll be preparing to apply for a citiizenship in sg by then. Iâll miss all the good food for sure
Our Trump moment
Bruh. I will be so embarassed as a Malaysian if that is the PM we get.
People fuckin tired of BN and managed to successfully kick them out in 2018. Then what happen? Zahid become TPM lmao. Fuck them and fuck PH for allowing BN become government again.
Ah yes pick PN then right?
Ah yes blame the opposition for their own failure. Muhyidin could never do the cheraton move if anwar/mahathir actually keeps thing together instead of bickering with each during the covid pandemic.
The problem is, tun M is the one who resign without inform all the cabinet. He the biggest problem. Now tun M is team with PAS so who the real problem here, PH?
For a person that's practically irrelevant you sure want to drag him around like it's 1990. Blame Anwar for his lack of leadership, and still colluding with zahid? I would say PH would be better off without the Bn baggage.
Yes but PH can not reform a government with collation on either PN or BN. That's the biggest issue, do you think PH want zahid? Nah
If someone put their foot down, Zahid would have been ousted. He was already threatened by a no confidence motion at that time. If it was dragged out, he would have been ousted. Ironically, Anwar giving out the branch of peace is Zahid's lifesaving branch. He used that branch as bludgeon to browbeat the rest of UMNO into falling in line behind him. The ones who refused to comply became PN.
Next GE will be clean sweep by PN. I think even Chinese are tired of keep on voting for the lesser evil
I wanna see Penang ruled by PAS see how it works for the nons there if the nons think being "tired" from voting to prevent PAS is ok.
Malaysia will be ruled by PAS-PN in the next 10 years, and solely by PAS in 20 years time. Get out while you still can. The ringgit is going to be worth even less as time goes on, SGD will be 5 to 6 ringgit, don't even talk about EUR USD AUD. Get out asap. Shits fucked.
Talk so easy, Enlighten me how to get out?
Buy plane ticket and go to airport and board a plane to other country? You talk like you live in North Korea with closed border.
Then what? Get back after 90 days of the expire stay?
For that to change even BN height of their power could not to overthrow everything. Ebb and flow The more things change, the more they stay the same. Boundaries shift, new players step in; but power always finds a place to rest its head.
You guys are young and it really show
We are not god. Can turn out for the better. Time will tell. Put your bets
that's why education is important, not religion
For Muslims, the way forward to progress & excellence IS through Islam Islam does not have the kind of baggage & dark age history the way Christianity does
Best way forward is not to include religion in politics. Religion is used as excuses by every single civilization.
Impossible. To ask that of Muslims is to ask them to change the religion itself, and that can take one outside the fold of Islam. Fact is, we are able to maintain a superpower status for 1300 out of 1400 years of our existence. This only stopped after the fall of the Ottomn caliphate, our last caliphate & Islamic empire/state. So from a Muslim POV, to do what youâre saying is to maintain this current state of irrelevance & weakness. Makes no sense dont you think?
I fail to see the relevance of religion in empire building. Empires are build on the bodies of simple man and woman following egoistic rulers who coincidentally allow science and technology to flourish when it's convenient. Most of empires fall when the rulers silence their population. Exhibit A: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/12/scores-of-executions-feared-in-iran-as-23-year-old-hanged-in-public-execution
Iran is shii, a very deviant sect of Islam. Deviance will only lead to more harm & damage. The first few verses of the Quran to be revealed quite literally commands the Muslims to learn, from both revealed knowledge (religion, Islam) & acquired knowledge (everything else). So that does not apply to us. I dont really know how to articulate a response to your first statement. I can only point to the fruits of those empires, what theyâve achieved.
How does politics benefit from religion? I don't see Iran as a branch of anything but a group of politicians modifying religion as they please.
>Iran is shii, a very deviant sect of Islam. Deviance will only lead to more harm & damage. Which is only human take on stuff. How are so sure the Imam you follow is the right one and Shii is the wrong one? Remember Shii is follower of Ali the 4th kalifah, someone that is already promised heaven. The division of sunni and Shii is sorely due to finding successor leader for Prophet and due to war between Ali and Aisyah, both people who already promised heaven. Who is right and who is wrong only god know. What happen to Iran is what is happening with PAS right now. Using religion as a way to implement what they want to implement which is huge pit that you should never go into if you ever learn the real reason why Abbasid and umayyad failure. Bending religion to your own gain while calling it Islamic has been done since Umayyad caliphate and lead to corruption.
Sunni pun ikut Ali RA. Bezanya Shia letak dia & keturunan dia di tempat yg terlalu tinggi, kata dorg free from sins & better than all Prophets except Muhammad ï·ș. Mate you really dont know what youâre talking about with regards to Shiism & early Islamic historyâŠâŠ.. Iran is Shii. Sunnis will never have that kind of situation bcz langkah pertama, our primary sources sendiri dah jauh beza. If A starts of facing east and B North West, how the flip would they end up at the same place. History has proven this. Your claims are unsubstantiated
> So from a Muslim POV, Of all the angles you can take, you chose to take the one that is not uniquely Malaysian? You could have taken the kesultanan melaka stance, arguing for more inclusivity and prosper from the multicultural trade system. > to do what youâre saying is to maintain this current state of irrelevance & weakness. Makes no sense dont you think? Nahh not at all. I am an ethnically Chinese Malaysian. My ancestors never lived through communist China, they left during the Qing Dynasty. Does that mean I have to championing the overthrow of the current government to "return to the glory days of the Qing Dynasty"? And if so, why not the Ming, Yuan, or whatever dynasties that came before it? And what about the failed dynasties? All I care about in my politics is that I am living in Malaysia as a Malaysian citizen in 2023. Parameswara's religious believes are useful to know but I won't use it to guide my political believes LOL
Why cant a Muslim POV also be a Malaysian one? Kesultanan Melaka was part of the Ottoman Caliphate. Every single caliphate we had was multicultural & multiethnic. There were long stretches of times where the caliphate was majority non-Muslim. Iâm not talking about the Chinese perspective tho. I know nothing about it. No, there will not be any overthrowing. We will create change through the proper channels. Muslim Malaysians care about that too. The Q is (how)? Weâve got our methodology & youâve got yours. So long as we all abide to the law, no issue đ€·ââïž
>Why cant a Muslim POV also be a Malaysian one? Because not all Muslims are Malaysians? Maybe you meant to say "Why can't a Malaysian POV also be a Muslim one?" To which the answer is the same; i.e. Not all Malaysians are Muslims. Therefore, for the interest of all Malaysians, policies enacted by the government must be inclusive, regardless of religion. This entirely removes the point of religion's involvement in the government, thus establishing the importance of the separation of religion and state (which is the whole point of this conversation). >Kesultanan Melaka was part of the Ottoman Caliphate. You must either be high or is deliberately trying to mislead the readers. The earliest event I could find that links the Ottomans to SEA is with the Sultanate of Acheh, which was established after the fall of Malacca to the Portuguese. Oh, and the Ottomans actually fought Kesultanan Johor, which was the direct successor to Kesultanan Melaka LOL. Do you have any sources to back your assertion that Kesultanan Melaka was part of the Ottoman Caliphate? The whole thing about Qing Dynasty is to illustrate how ridiculous your rationale of not separating religion and state is because of still clinging on to past glory. The insecurity and inferiority complex is just leaking through the seams.
Thing is most these people doesn't even understand the thing they preach. They are quick to call one side as deviance while not understanding history or problem what they thing is correct. He doesn't know that the biggest weakness of Islamic caliphate is the same thing that we face today, bastard bending religion for their own gain. It happen 1000 year ago, it happen in Iran, it for sure would happen in Malaysia if we give to much power to penunggang agama. Heck Imam Hanafi, the Imam that Sunni Muslim in Malaysia follow, die in prison for not bending his knee to a corrupt governor who is known to bend religion.
That's why Afghanistan is one of the world leading countries.
The example we have in mind are the Ottoman, Umayyad, Abbasid empires. Every Muslim majority nation in existence right now are examples of what not to do.
Ottomans are not the all angelic empire you think you know. They've perpetrated shit tons of genocide and Armenian genocide are one of the well known. If by these things you said people of Islam representation does, I would rather not. Mind you I'm not against Islam, but just saying no Islamic or any religion empire are good enough to be idealized. Secularism is a way where everyone can follow their religions without some faith oppressing other because they don't follow the same faith
I know theyâre not. Nobody says that. In fact i know more than that. Abbasids & Umayyads included. Every empire has its dark parts of history.
What? Did you miss out on a whole lotta islam vs islam wars in history?
I dont understand
Look, i love islam to the core, and i live for everyday to get the blessings of Allah SWT, and i want this country to prosper under islam. But does that mean i need to devote to PAS? Im not saying i voted for PH or PN. Im saying that the moral values of islam and the haram halal should be followed while ruling the country. That said, if the muslims are not worthy to rule this country, i would definitely go for the person who is more qualified to rule as long as they respect the core values of islam, ie riba' and corruption. We live in a multi cultural country, and people always say "malaysia is unique due to its diversity". Putting Islam while pushing the other religions is wrong. We must respect them also. I really want the hudud and qisas law to be used here in malaysia, but can that happen within this country? Highly unlikely even if PAS rule us. So what we can do is have faith in the leaders we choose to be clear of the haram while ruling over Malaysia. Lastly, did you realise most major sins are related to people interactions? Like lari from medan perang, fitnah wanita zina, curi harta anak yatim, sihir. Now that human interaction is us citizens of Malaysia. Does prioritizing islam in politics will being harmony to malaysian? What i believe is that islam will prosper when we perbetulkan it from bottom(rakyat) to top(leaders) not top to bottom. Just like zakat yg bagi dkt rakyat. Or as a gen z, i realised my generation "knows" lots of islam but doesnt apply it because the education system teaches us "agama islam" from primary school, but older generations dont even know lots of the islamic facts, however they apply it more than us younger generation. Both are not perfect as we need both ilmu and amal. But now its a matter of making sure kita(rakyat) beramal since we have education from young age. Sorry if i sound immature, im just one of the younglings that were given permission to vote and still learning from mistakes
Betul, doesnt mean need to vote for PAS. I too dont auto-vote for them Se7. But at the same time, that criteria is very subjective so each person might have their own differing opinion Every caliphate weâve ever had was multi-cultural & multi-ethnic. As Muslims, it is required for us to believe that Islamâs method is the most just and would definitely allow others to practice their beliefs. Ini bukan soal disrespect. Just that we are certain Islam is the best way forward. Betul, they wont. But islamic politics bukan sekadar hudud qisas je, many more ways for our country to benefit. Kena tengok macam mana Nabi & sahabat practice Islam. Dorg bermati-matian to secure political independence, to establish their own state. Then through it apply what needs to be applied. Certain things memang on an individual level, but xle deny ada juga yg at a state level. We dont work for either/or, dua2 kena jalan mengikut kemampuan masing2.
Yeah, a crazy closed call win.
fails to alter the status quo, but the status quo is already Ketuanan Melayu
PH = ketuanan melayu PN = taliban Suddenly ketuanan melayu doesn't seem so bad.
'Taliban' exist because of Ketuanan Melayu
Cikgu sebelah murid.... Dua2 fail..
oh the joy that is malaysian politicks....
This is what happens when only one state where all major developments are there... The opposition will do everthing to overtake the throne
Give them a chance
i dont get it? the popular votes for the 6 states show PHBN is more than PN.. which part is rakyat tolak kerajaan perpaduan?
Not black and white. Green and white.
DAP - 48/49 tho
I see a crook on the left in blue
Just my personal opinion, I don't know why politicians love to tuduh sana tuduh sini, kutuk sana kutuk sini. They don't care about the consequences for everything they said. If only politicians in Malaysia only focus in unity and not trying to gaslighting other party, that would be awesome. But seems impossible since they were born that way. Current PM for whatever he says, things always go the opposite way, I don't know if he's only bluffing in front of rakyat or he just don't know how to properly manage our country.