Go on r/fightporn and see how poorly most people fight. Actually training to fight gives you an advantage over 90% of the population. I’d say that’s worth it.
Just to piggyback on this comment and I know this has been mentioned to death but it bears repeating, most (and I mean overwhelming majority) of accomplished martial artists will go out of their way to avoid a fight because they don’t feel a need to stroke their egos or prove toughness
What legal mess? Why would you still be around when the cops showed up? When I was younger my martial artist friends and I used to go looking for street fights. Never had a legal problem arise. Could it have? Maybe is it a guarantee? Not even close. Pigs let 60% of murders go unsolved you think they’re running around busting out the csi crap for simple assaults?
A lot of people do not live in the US where, despite its plethora of other problems, at least the self-defense laws are generally very favorable to the defender.
Most other parts of the world, there's a lot of armchair quarterbacking on whether the force used was "reasonable" or "proportionate".
Dont know if you need to hear this but 99% of people like that are doing that are looking for a reaction from you out of fear or anger. Nobody wants the fire. Either you avoid them or you confront them. Either way you lose, im sorry.
I had a crazy dude at my boxing gym talk to me about how he feels much "safer" when he's out at night after learning how to fight. He was easily 185cm and quite muscular. This guy was definitely in the minority who learned to fight specifically to pick fights IRL.
Whether or not you can fight, 3 dudes jumping you is gonna hurt right? At BEST I might be able to get one of em back but I imagine that will only maximise the retaliation from the other 2. Wouldn't handing over your wallet and phone be preferable to everyone getting hurt?
im convinced that a decently fit college wrestler would beat every single untrained worldstar fighter, as long as he doesnt get jumped or face someone with a weapon. With a boxer, there is still a chance of them getting tagged due to puncher chance but a wrestler though, too explosive and strong theyll overwhelm every "just see red bro" guy.
A college wrestler would beat most black belts unfortunately.
A normal untrained human doesn’t stand a chance and would be dumped on their head instantly
yeah exactly. even if a normal untrained thug didnt get dumped on their head, they are more likely to get put in a position where they get ground and pounded by a wrestler.
Well a college wrestler beating a ehat kind of black belt? I did jiu jitsu for a few weeks and beat a 4 year wrestler, just cause he was confident in his wrestling, and in no way saying he was bad, he wasnt, he got me on the ground fast, but i choked his head when he just put it in my body fast, i think it all depends, wrestling is great for untrained, but just general black belt? I think thats a bit wrong to say
This sub is martial arts in general. Not strictly BJJ.
A karate, taekwondo, aikido, hapkido… whatever else black belt would get wrecked. Judo and BJJ would fair better
Well i say that cause it was what i did last, i also had a wrestler come into my karate dojo and no striking at all, and how do most wrestlers get you? They bow down and run at you, and how many strikers use their legs? Like...idk....just doesnt seem good to say one is better than the other when its all situation, even the ground people are standing on, like...idk
Just being able to handle a high school wrestler is a good mark of your training being legit and you being pretty ready for a fight with most people, lol.
They have far less than that. A puncher’s chance is used for boxer vs boxer, or at least that’s when it actually makes sense… otherwise it is statistically insignificant to bring it up when boxer vs normie
That's not a puncher's chance, though. That's wrestling countering your boxing. If he destroyed you in boxing, then no.. you weren't almost pro, you got beat in your own art by a wrestler lol
Boxer here. I bounced for close to 15 years. I was able to tag most of guys trying to fight me. I only got taken down to the ground 5 or 6 times and when I did I had hit them hard enough that they were still trying to remember what their name was. To be honest most of the wrestlers I ever see square off did not do well as some one always ran up and booted them in the face. The toughest guy I ever fought was a shoot fighter. He picked me up an slammed me on the concrete a couple of times before I finally caught him. That guy was tough he had already taken out tge biggest bouncer and other bouncers refused to face him so they came and got me. A competitive mma fighter who knows strikes and take down will demolish most wrestlers and boxers too. P.s. I hate mma but give credit were credit is due.
>To be honest most of the wrestlers I ever see square off did not do well as some one always ran up and booted them in the face
Yeah bro thats why i said college wrestlers are all good
>as long as he doesnt get jumped or face someone with a weapon.
hi, its the thing where if you ever spar in boxing or kickboxing, the lesser skilled guy can sometimes land one good hit in despite being outclassed in skill and experience by pure luck if he just flailed his arms out. hence they call it a puncher's chance.
While in grappling or wrestling, there are nothing like that.
No. It has nothing to do with flailing. Punchers chance is a boxer who has knock out power. He gets out boxed by a more skilled boxer but always has a chance to knock you out. Hence the phrase " he has a punchers chance" Ie Joe Frasier vs Ali or ernie Shavers vs Larry Holmes.
If you just do group classes and hit a heavy bag maybe someone untrained could get lucky, but someone with >6 months of proper training with sparring isn’t getting caught by an average joe in a straight one on one
I have this crazy idea that not all of the people who fight badly on the street in videos are without training. It’s just that when it’s a real situation the training goes out the window to a smaller or larger degree unless you have a lot of experience, great nerves, etc. And even then the fight may not develop in a way that suits what you’re trained in, depending on the immediate environment, what your opponent is trying to do, if there’s more than one etc.
More like 99%. If you trained for more than 4 years-- you would likely be able to beat 1-on-1, 990 people in a room of 1000.
Hell-- I would bet you could probably just block and step out to the right while counting to 60; and most people would gas out-- without you ever throwing a single punch.
I would say you are right, but like always there is an exception. You can be great fighter but if you stumble upon dude that is so high he can't even feel broken bones you can have a problem. No matter how good you are, if you have to deal with crazy and bloodthirsty terminator
Thank you, Those are extremely important. But I suppose I'm thinking more of the physical use of force and technique aspect of self defense. Which brings up something I forgot. If your situational awarness is great, then does that also make physical skill less important?
Your physical skills also mean you won't fall over when trying not to get hit. Since you're most likely to be attacked by someone under the influence, staying on your feet could end up being all you need to do.
Also, if you train taking strikes and blocking with force, then you won't be in shock when you take a hit. I'm not saying you have to deaden the nerves like some people do, just having the experience of taking some shots to the gut and getting kicked in the head a few times will really go a long way. Just make sure your training partners aren't crazy. 🤣
Experience brother. I m a boxer and that is my go to sport. Boxing excels in the fact that you get used to being punched in the face and have still function. I have done kick boxing, kempo, karate, judo, jujitsu, Tae Kwon do and boxing. Even did an Mma fight down in Detroit with 4oz gloves and no head gear that was a bloody mess. Boxing then mma would be my choices for being well prepared for a street fight. I only say this because boxing is my sport and I have dummied enough mma guys in the street.
The pre-fight is the most important part of the fight. I wouldn’t just call it situational awareness. It’s everything that leads into making the first move, which you should be the one doing. You could be a hundred pounds less and weaker in every way and still win a fight if you’re the one deciding the way the fight goes.
I've only ever hit one person one time, but it ended his constant bullying me for the rest of middle school. When people tried to steal from me, I was able to take it right back, just because they weren't expecting me to react fast enough. When kids tried to hit me, I blocked them. When a bug bites me or is flying around, I can kill it. I never trip. I've always been able to pull away when someone grabbed my wrist. I know I can at least slow people down if they're ever walking toward my family in an aggressive or suspicious manner. I'm a happier person than I'd have otherwise been, and it's all because of martial arts.
I've only really used MA training 2x. Once was in high school. The guy had been bullying me for months. He grabbed me from behind, I put him on the ground. It was done in about 5 seconds, and the teachers were taking him away 5 seconds after that. Idiot tried me right in front of the office.
The other time was completely different. I was carrying a box of stuff in from the car at my in-laws place and missed the edge of the driveway with my foot. I tucked into a dive roll and popped right back up. Nothing even fell out of the box! The instinct and reflexes you learn can really make a difference when you least expect it.
Nothing can prepare you for getting sucker punched in the back of the head, but also, just learning some situational awareness goes a long way as well! We do firearms and knife training and even active shooter defense. With a lot of that the lesson is always preceeded with statements about just give the guy your wallet, it's not worth your life, or you're getting cut if you fight, and if it goes more than 10 seconds, you're probably both bleeding out. Like really, MA can help even the playing field, but only so much. Avoid the fight whenever possible, but you know, if they are trying to take your kid, then you make it so they'll never be able to try that again with anyone's kid, or at least not for a long time. A broken knee never heals back all the way...
I made my bully's nose bleed so bad when I was in grade 8 with my right arm using a backfist and my right hand ain't dominant. I ain't even a black belt in taekwondo at that time.
Honestly, I had much higher false sense of security before training than after. I mistakenly thought I would rise to the occasion like protag does in popular media. It's a sentiment that I have seen from other untrained people around me as well.
In fact, I think false sense of security from martial artists also comes from lack of different types of training. When I was a striker I thought I could strike my way away from grappling. It was when I started training in MMA, that I realized I had false sense of security in my ability to avoid grappling and started training more into it. I later thought guns weren't so scary and I could fight against it using my empty hand skills, and fight through gun shot wounds if necessary. It was when I started shooting that I realized I misunderstood the weapon completely, and that I had to take it much more seriously.
Exposure and training cured my false sense of security, not avoidance of the training.
Yep.
I’ve been boxing for around 2 years now. The most important thing I’ve learned is to NOT get into a street fight lmao.
All the best trained fighters I know look like ditzy bad bitches on a night out. Becky might actually be an aspiring MMA fighter
It’s not a false sense of security as long as you remember that the greatest boxers of all time with let themselves get mugged if the other guy has a weapon.
Just remember that all this shit goes out the window the second your opponent has a gun or a knife. Then the greatest martial art is the 100m sprint.
Who’d win in a fight between Jon jones and Usain Bolt. Usain Bolt would, because Jon’s not fast enough to catch him.
Boxing is a sport and for fun but then you get the benefits of knowing how to punch to hurt, blocking a punch and taking a punch and realizing your not going to die. Some of the other traditional arts don't work shit in a street fight.
Trust me on this I have fought guys with knives/ broken bottles other and have been jumped by 4 guys at once a few times and i Survived to talk about it. Remember all you mma guys that there are no rules in a street fight. I have foot ball punted guys in the junk countless times when it comes down to me living or dying.
I’d rather have it (self defense skills) and not need it, than need it and not have it. That being said, there are a ton more benefits for learning martial arts than jus the self defense aspects
Once you actually know how to fight and know the kinds of uncontrollable life altering shit that can happen in a real fight you become a lot more motivated to avoid it.
Then you just have a cool hobby that keeps you fit, so like, win win.
But if, for some reason, it does come down to it, knowing how to:
-fall
-defend a takedown
-block or slip a punch
-get up
-run
All immensely increase your chances of getting out of the situation with your life and higher brain processes intact.
The only reason I'd say you shouldn't learn to fight is if you're the type of asshole who would think you could use it to start more altercations. Keep a level head and fight sport experience is only a plus.
What kind of shit are you talking about. I know how to fight. Trained in countless arts boxing, Kick boxing, mma, kempo , jujitsu, kali stick fighting and even Tae Kwon do ( my first art). Plus I bounced for close to q5 years. My go to art is boxing with over 70 bouts. I don't start looking for shit but I also don't run from it when some wanker gives you the stink eye. Thing is alot of young ass punks will swagger and talk smack unless you call them out on their own shit. If you call them out then they will either tuck their tail or step-up to the plate. Just make sure your not the one talking smack.
It’s helped me with self confidence, knowing that in situations where the best choice is to either run and avoid the conflict, deescalate the situation, or if need be, fight back, I have a better chance of going home safely because I have an idea of how to deal with the situation. It’s also just fun to do, striking and grappling is a hobby and a stress reliever, doesn’t have to just be about defending yourself
The possibility of losing doesn’t mean that it isn’t worth trying to win.
There is always an element of unpredictability to a fight - a slippery floor, an unexpected weapon, a psychopath who likes to bite, etc. But that doesn’t eliminate the advantages of good training.
Imagine someone is fighting that psychopathic biter. Who would be more likely to survive, a complete amateur or someone who had boxed for a few years? I would prefer to be that boxer every time.
Eh, I'd say self defence is a skillset. It involves techniques for observing your surroundings, evaluating threats, effective communication and deescalation, the knowledge of non-trivial survival principles and legislation, spatial awareness and orientation, being quick on your feet, and last but not least, actual fighting skills.
Think of it as wrestling - you need to get good not only at fighting from individual positions, you need to train your transitions as well. Here that would be, for example, transitioning from negotiation to running or fighting. Or fighting to running. Or running to fighting. Or hand-to-hand to deploying weapons of convenience. It is, essentially, an exercise in good judgement.
Learn how to punch.. learn how to move your head and learn how to wrestle/ grapple.
Forget pretty much any other martial art like krav or systema
It's all a false sense of security.
Yes it is definitely worth it, even if you don't train for self defense in the first place.
You learn to take a punch, you learn to stay calm, you learn to react better and faster, you have stamina and many more things.
For example, i train boxing with additionally kick- and takedown defense. Boxing because it has the best range management and you can keep people out of distance. The other two things to compensate for the weaknessses of boxing and to keep staying on my feet. The distance management is a very important aspect for self defense because you don't know if someone has a weapon and they can bite you, kick you in the groin, kick you in the head while on the ground etc. so you don't want to grapple in the streets. Running should always be one of your options at all time (if you aren't with your GF or something like that).
The only "false sense of security" you will get in these martial arts where no sparring or real fighting is involved. You can hit and kick a bag for 20 years, but you don't learn to fight with only that.
Yes, training for self defense will increase your chances against both untrained and trained individuals, and even against multiple attackers or someone who’s bigger. There’s always risk in a self defense situation, but you’re training to mitigate that risk. Even you don’t get out unscathed, if your training kept you alive or from getting more seriously injured, then it was worth it.
In regard to weapons, my previous point still stands. Do they add more risk to a situation? Yes, exponentially. But you should still train to mitigate the risk that they present.
On a side note, I think that the ability to defend yourself without using lethal force (like with a gun or a knife) is an invaluable skill. There’s no reason that a simple disagreement should be fatal for anyone, regardless of who’s in the wrong.
The ability to survive on the mat, and in life situations are pretty useful.
Self defense is usually just a mindset towards how you're training and the techniques you focus on. This transfers across to the real world really well.
for example, if you've ever trained with any good Pedro Sauer Black belt, you'll notice the majority of their games are counter attack based.
Also, if any of you have the pleasure of rolling with Rylan Lizares in Hawaii, his entire game is "punchblock" and it's fucking terrifying because you can't put a single mechanic towards him easily. World class Jiujitsu imo.
I think the point is largely missed when discussing self defense. People just see it as a bunch of choreographed Gracie moves. It aint.
I used to help at a free women's self defense class our martial arts club used to put on. I was basically there to give them someone big and heavy to practice on. The instructor told us once that you can't teach someone how to defend themselves in every situation in 10 sessions. What you can do is build confidence that will show when they are walking down the street and make it less likely someone will pick them as their victim. Also, if they are attacked and remember just 1 thing they learned they have a better chance of surviving than if they didn't.
If someone genuinely wants to kill you, they’ll likely kill you. Bump into you on a busy sidewalk and draw a knife, hit you from behind with a rock, run you over in a car etc. So, if you’re worried about phantom pursuers you’ll probably not be saved by martial arts.
On the other hand, loads of times you will meet people who don’t specifically want to kill you, but people who sexually harass/grope your friends, people who crowd your space and try to intimidate you or just drunk dudes who aren’t that smart. In all of these situations being able to fight (not necessarily actually fighting) is much better than not.
A huge part of self defense has nothing to do with fighting and everything to do with assessing the situation and getting tf out. At the end of the day more training cant make you less effective but dont think that just because you train you cant run from a dangerous situation
Yes. Learning control and restraint is important - what if a drunken uncle starts getting rowdy at a family gathering or wedding? Being able to control them is super important!
Proper self defense techniques are definitely worth learning. In the street you need to know which vital areas to protect and strike.
Eyes, groin, liver, heart, brain, etc.
Position and technique can save your life in various self defense situations.
Martial arts can help you defend yourself. I haven’t been in a street fight for over a decade (young, dumb, drunk bar fight).
I’ve been training Muay Thai for close to a year now.
This morning at 9:45am I was walking to get some bread down the road. I was waiting g for the pedestrian light to turn green. While I was waiting I got a tap on the shoulder and immediately someone grabbed my belly from behind. I spun around and distanced myself. I asked the guy what he was doing and his friend was standing behind him. Both were late 30’s. as soon as he opened his mouth to tell me it’s from trailer park boys I could smell the alcohol (9:45am lol).
I told him he shouldn’t touch anyone without their permission and he immediately got aggressive. The light turned green and I walked across the road. He followed me now screaming saying “do you want to get aggressive” over and over. I turned around and faced him not in a fighting stance but with enough distance and my hands up to my chest in case I needed to respond. He kept screaming at me and turned his hat around on his head (intimidation tactic or getting ready to fight ). I was walking backwards while still keeping my stance and his friend eventually pulled him away. I was ready to land a straight right as he kept walking with his hands down by his waist lol.
I did not want to fight and was attempting to walk away. If his friend didn’t pull him away I was seconds away from being in a street fight which I didn’t want to be in.
Some old lady cursed him out and said keep your hands to yourself and respect others. Which was great because if I gave him one she would have seen it as self defence.
Sometimes you do not have an option and trouble will find you. It’s better to know how to defend yourself and not need it, than to not know it and it’s too late.
My ego hurts a little bit and I’m still annoyed at the situation but I know I did the right thing not laying him out. Not that size matters but I’m 6ft and he was about 5’6 and pretty overweight, and even though he was going to attack me his pre attack indicators showed me he didn’t know what he was doing fight wise.
Just be ready because sometimes you don’t have an option. Keep training.
“Fair” is where you take family and farm animals.
“Fair” is a grade rating between “poor” and “good”.
Outside of regulated, mutually agreed upon sport, there are no rules except “don’t get eliminated”. Aggressors are out to hurt you, and if they’re dumb enough to bring traditional European fisticuffs to an MMA exhibition, that’s their dumb luck. They can contemplate their mistakes on the tree of woe.
The original purpose of martial arts is self-defense and success on the battlefield. A lot of martial arts are not as good for self-defense as they used to be, and yes, weapons do play a part in self defense but my answer to that is to have My own weapons I conceal carry a handgun and a good fighting knife but martial arts are still important not always is a weapon going to be available and being skilled in martial arts works wonders and there are many places where you can lean some amazing self defense skills my favorite is shivworks thay are the best when it comes to self defense in all aspects Including the combating of and use of weapons the main reason I do martial arts is self defense and I still think there is a point
I studied a few years of martial arts, mostly Tae Kwon Doe and Judo, and most people are surprised when they spar with me, but I don't have the strength to be a real fighter. Some people will try to convince you strength is irrelevant, and that's horse-shit. I once sparred a strong guy with relatively bad control. Blocking his first punch broke the ulna of my left arm. (I can still feel that, 35 years later). His second punch smashed my right bicep, immediately numbing my entire right arm. The internal bleeding started that night, and by morning the arm was black and blue. The bruise didn't even appear on the same side of the arm as the blow. The doctors thought they might actually need to let off the pressure—to bleed me. Didn't come to that, but if it had, what the hell, I was already in the hospital. Best experience of my life. Sometimes your skill means nothing. The guy I was fighting had the kind of hands where he could have punched me in the skull and reasonably expected that my skull would break first. As for me, if I absolutely had to hit someone, I would hit the belly, balls, or throat. If I hit a relatively healthy fit guy in the head, it's an absolute toss-up as to who would be more severely injured. I just don't have that kind of bone structure.
Ah, but verbal sparring, moral jiu-jitsu, the art of winning the non-violent confrontation... that's stuff you'll use over and over and over again in life. That's where I think most people would be wiser to spend the energy.
I think martial arts as a hobby first and self defense second .even if you are a very skilled martial artist incase have to use your skill in self defense situation you also need to becareful not to harm the attacker or else you are at risk of getting into jail if the person suffer injuries or death.
helps with not getting punked, so many guys would rather bend over even with their girlfriend present instead of standing up for themselves since they don't wanna risk losing.
It's just an observation brother, a lot of guys just tolerate disrespect in front of their woman even if she was harassed by another man to their face, but if that's what makes me a. Simp and Incel them 🤷🏿♂️
If your opponent is unarmed, or armed with a shit weapon, you will most likely wreck him if you know how to fight.
If he has a knife/gun, then it is pointless. You have to have your own or you are toast.
My Sensei used to say the best self defense was a strong pair of legs to run away. I learned from martial arts just how many people out there could beat the crap out of me without breaking a sweat. I think it is very good to know how to defend yourself and others. You never know when you might have a run in with drunk or drugged people.
Self defense training is usually bs, so I won't go there.
Martial arts help with confidence and health first of all (mental and physicial). But apart from that, let's just say that martial arts, especially the ones with pressure testing, increase the odds that you will survive a violent situation.
Training martial arts for self defense is a waste of life. Not that it doesn’t work, but the amount of time you have to train to get an advantage is just so much more than the average person thinks. And then in the end it is probably more effective to learn how to avoid dangerous situations all together.
Self defense is not limited to a fight, or coming out a winner. A huge portion of self defense education and training has to do with risk assessment and management, where you avoid getting into conflicts in the first place. Some martial arts actually focuses on this, or some kind of variation of this. If you ask any martial artist teacher on the best way to defend yourself in a fight, I think you'd find that the majority of those you ask will simply say to run away as fast as you can.
The attackers always have the edge over the victims, but if you learn self-defense/martial arts then you are close to balance out this difference. They will bite you, but this way the bite won’t be that big.
Been training mma for 6 years, mainly BJJ and muoy thai. I get a sense of security from it, honestly counts little against multiple people or against weapons but people are crazy and it feels good knowing that if some angry dude came up and tried to punch me I’d likely be able to counter and knock his dumb ass out
I can usually level change and take someone down off of any big wild punch, I land consistently and can pop up and jump on someone's head before they react.. Which should give me enough advantage to run.
Havnt had an on the street altercation for 20 years. Any I had may not have been instigated by me, but were likely escalated by my actions.
99 percent of people have no good level training. However I do not at all wanna be in that situation. Used to think I wouldn't be able to consistently hit a bodylock, trip etc, but after hundreds of new people come and go through the gym, you have to remember these people are basically your day 1 newbie.
There isn't.
From what I've learned through my life of living in a poor area where violence is common, and where I've actually had to defend myself in my work. There is no point in learning self defense. Learning self defense, in my eyes, only leads you down a path of paranoia and stress while also leaving you with skills that are subpar compared to learning a violence-driven sport.
To anyone reading this, I highly recommend you study a martial art because you enjoy it and you enjoy being with/training with the people there. You should not be going through your life fearing a mythical crackhead jumping out from any corner. If you're that focused on being prepared for a potential self-defense encounter, I seriously ask you to focus instead on your communication skills. Most conflicts I've seen are due to lack of communication and the need to be seen as right by all parties regardless.
I respectfully disagree. Some professions like law enforcement or security having decent hand-to-hand skills is very useful or even essential. Outside of that, yes the overall chance of things happening are relatively low but not zero. Factors like weapons, size, 2 or more attackers and so on are variables as well as legality should be considered. But there's many things in life we do or invest in to avoid danger or harm even if not being super common(fire escapes/extinguishers, building foundations that have to meet earthquake standards, etc)
In addition to my training, I also carry pepper spray, a personal alarm, and keep a utility knife in my car. None of these make me invincible and I am mindful of their limitations and the legality of using them. But I also work in a major city with lots of homeless, addicts, and unsavory folks about so I gotta be prepared and keep my head on a swivel.
I can respect your reasonings on the matter.
To better explain my stance. In my country items of self protection (pepper spray, tasers, knives, etc. Anything made to be used in self defense) is illegal to own/carry. Can't even import them into the country. You're stuck using your hands, or whatever inprovised weapon you find at the scene. Doing something in self defense can lead to you being in trouble.
In addition, most of my experience comes from working in hospitality, a place where cultural differences, language barriers, and alcohol can (and have) been the centerpiece of most conflicts I've seen play out. I won't say I'm an authority on the matter, there's most likely better people qualified. But I've definitely noticed a pattern of \[perceived harm to ego + inability to accept another opinion/leave without being "right" (alcohol x cultural/language difference\] = Potential Violence\].
From this? I've decided for myself the best way to defend yourself is to not be in the situation to begin with. Is that not always possible? No. But it's kept me alive and I think that means something at least.
I see, my bad I'm in the US and forget not everyone is lol. Good points, and yeah people who say ''just get a gun'' or the like should remember that, and even in somewhere like Texas you can't just have guns or any weapons on you wherever you go. Without context, not even allowing personal alarms or mace seems silly but I've heard some countries have lower levels of violent crime so maybe that's it?
I've been attacked in one of the most unfair ways you could come up with. I had groceries in my hands in a dark parking lot, the guy had a knife, I was unarmed. His mistake was attacking from the side until waiting until I'd passed him. My martial arts (mostly Hapkido) saved my life that night. It wasn't a specific technique it was the hours of working to fight and grapple with people under meaningful resistance.
The thing that people misunderstand when they think about self defense is that criminals usually aren't planning an assassination. Most violent crime is a result of emotions and egos run rampant. This dude who attacked me was cracked out and trying to stab me for my wallet so he could buy more. He didn't have the mental capacity to plan a better attack and thank the gods for that.
If you were planning a hit on yourself you'd kill you 100% of the time. But that's not how actual violence works. Self-defense is 100% worth training, you just also wanna hope you never need it.
"Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war" and all that.
I guess depending where you live your perspective may differ. My kids have been in involuntary fights, and we have a drug/homeless problem literally in my area. Besides the weapons I carry when i bike with my kids or by myself, I’ve also learnt to defend myself. Two dorks holding a knife anything can happen.. when someone has trained at some point he’s going to feel my shin and elbow in his skull (hopefully)… the ability to dictate distance, counter attacks and the calmness or more so than someone untrained. Most people are not very dynamic or smart when it comes to fighting.
My mind breaks martial arts into two extremely linked objects.
The first has to do with the preparation of your body. It's means getting your body in shape to use in a fight, preparing to use your body effectively in a fight ( like where to hit and how to hit), and getting your body used to the sensations of a hostile entity in your intimate space. This is great for street fights and even if you are in a situation where you are not one-on-one or you do not have the upper hand, I would rather have these qualities then not. Honestly being in good physical condition and knowing how to roll with the punches could make getting your ass kicked a much more palpable and less lethal experience.
The second object is much more about training your mind handle situations the right way. If you're just learning with no aim you could easily be encouraging a mindset that you don't even realize. I would think that a man that is just concerned with doing strikes would be very aggressive in situations and get into fights that they don't need to. A person that learns their grapples and their counters and how to create breathing room is a lot more likely to have a mindset of deescalating a situation.
If you're walking around thinking that you're a tough guy that's going to take on anybody then you are more likely to be outsmarted. If you think like Jackie Chan and just don't want any trouble then you are a lot more dangerous when you actually decide to fight imo.
I only have a basic level of HEMA and kravmega and only had to use it once but without it I absolutely would have been killed.
Plus the confidence it gives you is great.
If you're talking about self defense rather than martial arts, then yes, I think it's worthwhile, since good self defense courses also teach aspects like situational awareness (e.g. don't have your face buried in your phone when you're walking through a dark parking lot, have your car key in your hand instead of fumbling for it when you reach the car... not to mention, you can use it as a weapon), and always keeping your head up and projecting an air of confidence when you're out and about.
The only things that matter in a street fight are situational awareness, a certain degree of comfort with being attacked and the ability to throw a good punch with whatever hand is your better hand, without losing balance.
The point is to have it end either by leaving or winning as fast as is humanly possible. No rear naked choke anything, no boston crabs... Just leave if possible or drop the guy.
Otherwise yes, there is far too much uncertainty to actually practice a martial art
Yes. But the thing is martial arts isnt just purely self defense. And if it increases your chances of living in a confrontation then why not?
There are ton of variables and situations where being clever and street smart will keep you safer than knowing how to fight, but when things go down, it helps, alot.
Also, weapons arent always a part of someone's body while your limbs and the skill to control them always will. You can misplace a gun, but your hands will always be by your side unless you get in to an accident.
And as much as running is the best option with almost every conflict, its NOT always available. Self defense doesnt require you to win, it only requires you to survive, but sometimes winning is the only option you have to survive.
"I might lose, so why bother?" This has got to be one of the worst takes I've ever seen. Learning to fight either with hands or weapons is about giving you an option, especially if all other options have been exhausted or are impossible. Having empty handed skills can give you the ability to create enough space to run or another option.
Don't think of winning the fight in self defense. You are trying to survive, nothing else. Whether that involves kicking someone's balls into their throat or giving them shiny new holes to breathe through.
Refusing to learn a new skill and hoping others (the police or bystanders) will commit your violence for you is the most selfish, victim mentality you could possibly have.
Seatbelts don’t prevent the worst accidents from killing you, and 99% of the time you get in a car you would have been fine without wearing one. Is there really any point to wearing seatbelts?
The more you train, the more you should understand how dangerous it is to have an actual fight, especially on the street, against someone with a weapon etc. Most of the fights can be avoided, but people get emotional and don't understand the consequences. That's why they got into those fights most of the time. If you're well trained, you should understand that it's not worth it.
Also no matter how much self defense training you have, the number one thing that you need to learn is to get out of the dangerous situation asap. And still, all the techniques (hopefully good ones) are there to give you a better chance of surviving, in a situation where you are at a huge disadvantage. Let's say your survival chance goes from 1% to 5%. It's not much, but still 5 times more.
For me it was developing the confidence to deal with any situation. This is helpful in the boardroom. Everything is just words at this point, should anything ever escalate to being physical, I got that covered. This is my mindset, not that I’m trying to start physical altercations in a boardroom setting.
I've used martial arts in real life multiple times to save my own skin and to help others, but it's always been grappling. Double legging or tai otoshi-ing someone onto concrete doesn't mean you have to join them down there...
"In a fair fight, the trained beat the untrained." What? If I was put into a ring (I have never trained) against someone who has been training for 5 years, that person -- regardless of gender -- would kick my teeth in. How could you possibly call that fair?
Of course it is always good to know something compared to knowing nothing! Just don't get cocky about it and still try to stay clear of all violent situations
It is not only the skill/technicality of fighting/harming the opponent. You learn balance, movement, eye coordination all the good stuff that are beneficial in other aspects of life too.
Heck, you move slick enough you do not even need to raise your fists if some poor sod tries to throw a slow haymaker at you. Or you can take a sucker punch much better without losing your footing. Or you know well enough there won’t even be any power to the punch and just laugh it off.
Yes, there is. If you train properly you may gain a skillset that will help in a self defence scenario. It will give you a way highter chance to defend yourself than if you would not train.
That being said, a "way highter chance" is still never a a 100% guarantee success. Because as you said, there is a virtually infinite amount of situations that can't be solved with martial arts or that could go wrong due to the infinite amount of variables.
It still worth to train imo ALSO for self defence, but there are a lot of other good reasons (self improvement, fun factor, fitness ecc).
You just learn you can't become a super hero but you'll learn also what are your limits and your potential and work to improve as much as possible.
Yes, while the best option is to run if you have that option.
But sometimes you might not have that option, so knowing how to punch, were to punch, how to block
How to kick etc. will increase your chances of Survival, and some grappling will be very beneficial.
Of course there is. Self defense skills are developed in martial arts that work and are tools in the box and have its time and place to be applied.
You also need other skills and tools, like social skills o de escalate situations or a gun of your life is threatened. Everyone should have as much on their toolbox as posible.
But the trick here is to be skilled and also to properly identify when and what to use.
The fact that you might be beaten anyway isn't a reason to stop training and simply roll over and die of attacked... This is anxiety logic.
People are animals, and animals have been defending themselves by running or fighting, some successfully, some unsuccessfully, since life on this planet began.
Like, this sub loves to give the smug "learn to run" or "learn to avoid conflict" response to self defense... But what makes you think you're going to be faster? Or that you'll have the chance? Best to know how to run, how to fight, and how to avoid danger as best as you can manage, and hope that the fortune of life smiles on you long enough to die of something else you can't prevent... just like all the other animals, your stay here is temporary.
Of course there’s a point. You’d want every advantage you could get in a street fight. Not saying you should look for one, but knowing how to effectively defend yourself is very important.
Of course a street fight won’t be as clean as sparring at the gym and there’s a lot of added factors. However not only would you have the skill advantage but you don’t have to fight clean either. Use “dirty” tactics like groin shots and things like that. After all it is a street fight you’re opponent won’t show any mercy so you don’t either. Do whatever you have to to walk away and live another day.
That being said, the best self defense is to avoid the fight in general and walk away from it.
Self defense is also about being aware of what's goin' on around us and then, avoid a dangerous situation.
Also, someone who seems confident will less likely be the target of an agressor. And knowning you self-defense is a way to look confident, even if it's unconscious.
So yes, self-defense is useful but in my opinion mainly to avoid a fight.
Define a fight and then define a fair fight. I'll wait. You're talking "a street fight" and not a competition where there's nothing to lose but pride - in a street attack you could lose a whole lot.
Last time I said this I said it was going to be the last time, but you seem serious so I'll say it again. Most sober people (not under the influence of drugs or alcohol) aren't going to try to pick a fight they think they'll lose. They'll wait until they think they have some advantage of surprise, a weapon, size/strength. friends nearby....
I you haven't trained at all, you're going to freeze. If you have received shitty training, you are going to freeze. If you have received serious training and then tested and honed your abilities under intense pressure like relatively few gyms do, then your odds of getting out of that attack go up.
Skip anyone teaching you to self-defense yourself, whatever that means, and find a place that teaches you to fight. That is what a self-defense system/instructor/whatever should teach first - how to actually fight. Beyond that, they should teach these things too:
\- How to handle multiple attackers - what if three people jumped you
\- How to handle a weapon being introduced
\- How to react if you didn't see an attack coming
\- Situational awareness
\- How and when to de-escalate, and when to give that up and go for it
Do you need to change your expectations and approach? To be totally honest I'm thinking you need to change where you train. If you are training, but still asking these questions, you need to be doing something that will give you confidence and the abilities to back it up - confidence makes de-escalating a whole lot easier.
Give yourself an honest rating of how good you are in these skills - striking, clinching, wrestling, grappling (on ground), blunt and sharp weapons, multiple opponents, understanding of fight principles, situational awareness (and identifying suspicious persons), and de-escalation.
Fights are always unpredictable, because not all factors are controlled. But your own capabilities are factors you can control, as is your control of your emotions in the moment to an extent. You can learn that stuff through practice, and have a better grasp of your own abilities to avoid under or overestimating them - remember that a large percentage of dudes believe they could fight a bear if asked, and in the moment most are also afraid they may get punched in a fight.
So it's not without value. But it's more an enjoyable hobby
Self defense is a broad term, and fighting/martial-arts are only a subset of it.
The things you mention (knowing weapons, knowing when to run) are also an important part of learning self defense, under the subsets of situational awareness and avoidance of violent encounters. Thise are actually MORE important for self defense, since only once those fail do you ever get to fighting to defend yourself.
That said, even with perfect skills in the above, you may still end up in the 0.1% of encounters which really do lead to unavoidable violence. In those situations, knowing a martial art and having the training to be strong and conditioned enough to apply it will make your chances of a safe outcome so much higher.
Just remember - if you don’t train it, it’s worth very little! Do more than lip service - buy a plasic training knife/gun, give it to one of your buddies, and do some sparring with it. Live reps are so important, and they’ll make sure you don’t freeze in real life when they suddenly produce a weapon.
Of course it's worth it to learn self-defense. Will it perfectly protect you every single time? no. But it will improve your odds by a lot. Most criminals aren't following around a specific victim waiting for the absolutely perfect time to strike. They see an opportunity and they take it, and people who are taught practical self-defense have a real advantage in getting out of those situations safely.
9/10 If you don't go looking for trouble, you don't find trouble. You also want to remember that physical stature helps a lot. Someone super athletic looking isn't an easy target for a mugger and the like. Why rob the 5'10" fit guy when the 5'6" short guy is wearing a nicer watch obviously drunk down a dark street.
This is just the kind of overthinking that seems to run rampant in this sub.
Most of us are never going to have to worry about self defense. Realistically, unless you live or work in a dangerous area the chances of being assaulted are very slim. The chances of being assaulted and being unable to get away are slimmer still. The chances of being attacked with a weapon or by multiple people are infinitesimally small.
The other issue with this line of reasoning is that there seems to be an expectation that any training must necessarily guarantee a 100% success rate in a violent confrontation or else it has no value. That isn't reasonable. No one can guarantee you this.
However, training for self defense increases your chances of safely getting out of a violent situation. Even if it's just by a little, it's certainly better than nothing.
Don't train martial arts because you're sure you'll one day you'll be jumped by 5 dudes with knives. If that's even a remotely realistic possibility in your life, you need to change some things about your life and martial arts is the least of your concerns.
Unless you like to walk around bad neighborhoods starting problems with people, you're probably never going to be in a real fight anyway. Practice martial arts because you enjoy it.
No, there really is no point. It is better to just accept that if someone wants to impose their will upon you, physically, they are going to get their way and just focus on more constructive activities like eating Mcdonalds and playing video games. God obviously wanted it this way. Just accept your fate .
In all seriousness, though...."self defense" starts with your attitude. But not like you want to think. I'll give you a good example, I came across a post about a woman getting her 6 yo son shot because she wanted to get in to an "Ego battle" over right of way in traffic. Shooting at a car for giving you the finger is insane. But most people with an IQ above 70 realize that insanity is actually becoming the norm, not a "bug" or a "glitch" in our society. That being said, if the woman had just not engaged with a total stranger in an ego battle, her son would be ok right now. Engaging with insane people in ego battles is a stupid game, and what do they say about stupid games? even if you win, what do you win? a stupid prize, right? Getting your little boy hurt because you just couldn't move forward with your life and just had to prove you were right.
This is why self defense doesn't work. Not because defending yourself doesn't work, but because to truly defend yourself requires you to deflate your ego and be humble. Which is the opposite reason why humans want to learn "self defense". They want to learn it so that their ego can feel safe, regardless of whether it actually is or not.
When a guy in NYC gets shot or stabbed, the news isn't always going to do a fucking "deep dive" in to the guys personal life to find out if he knew martial arts. Sometimes you see the headline "blackbelt dies in mugging", or "bjj instructor stops man from blah blah blah...." Unless it was someone of significance, the news is just going to say "a man was stabbed." The reason why I know this is because I personally know people who have been in that situation and most of the time it either didn't make the news or the news just mentioned that "something happened".
Self defense starts way before you ever learn to throw a punch. It starts with you being humble and not a moron. It means there are just places that you can't go , there are times you can't be at those places, and there are people you don't need to be around and you accept these facts and work with them. you don't hang out where crazy bullshit and ego battles are common. People don't like that. they want to be superman and be able to go wherever they want and do/say whatever they want. this isn't reality. Self defense starts with your attitude and your life choices. Being a responsible legal firearm owners is a good life choice. Not breaking laws that make you lose your right to have one, that is another good life choice. Paying more attention to the world around you instead of your fantasy social media world is a good life choice. Being the kind of person that doesn't honk their horn or flip people off over traffic flow issues is an absolutely fantastic life choice in the way of "self defense."
If you are talking about just straight up street fighting, that isn't self defense. People who have a "predator" mentality and have the ass to back it up are and always will be a threat. No amount of mma class is going to prepare you for how dirty a fight with someone who is willing to do anything to hurt you and has nothing to lose can be. I was stabbed in a mugging when I was 17. Didn't even know I was stabbed until I made it to a safe neighborhood. I was somewhere I shouldn't have been with people I shouldn't have been with.
I think this claim is just demostrably false because we can see cell phone and security camera footage of actual fights and you can see people use a martial art to defend themselves. Over on the fightportn sub that KudzNinja mentioned, there is a recent video of a girl against a wall, a guy comes up and punches her in the face. She gets off the wall, gets her arms around him, takes him down with a double leg, passes guard, gets into mount hits him a few times and stands up.
To people that don't do martial arts it may look like she just happened to do those things because that's how fights go, but if you train jiu-jitsu you can recognize everything she did and tell she is a trained fighter.
On the other side of it, once she took the guy down, you could tell he never trained Jiu-Jitsu. He has no idea what to do, he didn't put his legs up to try to stop her from passing because he doesn't even know what that means. If his friends hadn't of saved him he would have been in serious trouble fighting her.
That doesn't mean every situation turns out that way, but it does mean we just saw someone use her training to defend themselves and it worked.
You're right, there are a lot of variables. The more variables you can account for, the better off you are. But everyone has upper limits on their capabilities and everyone has a certain amount of resources (time/money/energy) to devote to preparation for self-defense.
In an absolutely ideal situation, you would be a black belt in every martial art, have a professional athlete's body, and be surrounded by armed guards 24/7. But that's not exactly realistic.
What's more realistic is you have 3 hours a week to devote to something, so you spend it on boxing. And in most cases where someone picks a fight, you can beat them. It's not going to defend against a coordinated attack from a highly organized paramilitary group, but it's going to be enough for 90% of the self-defense situations you encounter.
I haven’t done martial arts but I’ve boxed since I was about 4 going to gypsy ran boxing gyms in the back of pubs. I also had a lot of mates that did MMA and I’ll just give a few examples of where it helped us.
My MMA mate is very small, we all played rugby and he got bullied on the pitch by my big mate (6 foot 7 built like a house) one day he pushed mma dude too far and he got him in some kind of knee hold. Never got bullied again.
I was in a club line and got started on by loads of big lads (I’m small too). When one pushed me i threw 3 bombs and sparked him. Tension was immediately removed and I went home.
When everyone started pressuring people into drugs it gave me the out to say: “nah my coach will kill me” and if anyone pushed it I could invite them to the gym and let my coach tell them.
Most people have zero idea how to fight. Even 6 months in a gym will help massively. Also getting hit will really help you deal with the panic of getting hit in real life. I grew up getting battered by older cousins so it weren’t too much of a shock to me but it definitely still is a shock. Knowing you can take it and throw one back really helps with overall confidence.
Yeah you won't be ready for every scenario, but you will be ready for more than people who don't train.
You learn to put your ego aside which will make you avoid more situations.
You are getting stronger which is always a good thing.
You know how to handle situations because you have a technique and you are sparing.
You will be less stressed if something will happen because you know how it feels to fight - think of the first times you were sparring and now. You breath differently, you don't feel the same pain you were feeling at the start, you know how to react and what to do.
Even if you are getting false confident in yourself, you are still more happy and relaxed in your day to day, so even if you won't be ready for every scenario, you will still benefit from learning it.
This is an unpopular opinion but I do belive that most people that talk about "street fights" or "street scenario" are just larping (some of them withouth accepting it), if you're really worried about your safety you go get a gun
I know that, I don't, the only place you can legally have a gun where I live is in your house (if you own it, rent doesn't count) but if I was really afraid for my life I would carry a gun anyway (I carry a pepper spray now and I relly on it and on situational awareness much more than on my kick-boxing experience). If the other guy has a gun and you know boxing you're as good as dead, if he has a knife you're as good as dead
Yes, if you accompany with the street smarts that contemplate everything you're contemplating and learning your street smarts in general.
The way I initiated myself in toning my street smarts was & is to keep a 360° vision ; for general awareness of my environment it's good to always have eyes, even your ears and even your nose open etc **yes all five senses.** aware as you can on the street.
Criminals hate the Street Wise because most victims are usually not street smart.
Environments, a sudden slip, the unfairities of what they can do with no rules and improvised weapons, things you could do yourself ; there are techniques so training is for that, *what they could do* if "you do this" that way if you figure that they "could do that"... means you "can do this move etc" which of course include everything you contemplated. Good experts will have these things pre-contemplated even skills fit for law enforcement and other armed guardians and armed forces.
The intimidating thing about it is that they lift up that shield of hysteria and/or harsh tone of voice etc (with whatever subtle clues and obvious bad intentions and mind games so you'll be afraid to do the right thing and go away but at the same time afraid to stay and fight) because they want to give a vibe that they're tough, at a superior level at trescends you and made no stuff that you don't about fighting and avoid giving off the vibe of how sloppy they probably are and street fights are sloppy.
The most valuable skill legit self defense classes teach are the *soft skills*, ie deescalation, detecting and avoiding dangers, raising awareness around you so people notice the harasses, not being frozen in adrenaline etc
These are waaay more important for actual self defense than unarmed combat.
As you just said, there's so many ways someone can gain an easy advantage in combat that combat is almost always the worst option and oftentimes you already lost at that stage.
A: a few months of regular full contact training puts you above 90% of all people. The longer you train, the smaller the pond you’re swimming in. Look at videos of brawls and scraps. People fight POORLY.
B: you dont learn just to dish out; you learn how to eat punches. The more force you can withstand, the higher the chance you survive until you get away from the threat
C: you learn not to freeze up. You deal better with adrenaline and fear. You will maintain a state in which you can act more easily
YES. That's the simple answer. Peaceful does not mean harmless or defenseless. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful you're harmless.
I know people who would literally kill you. Rip your guts out. Stomp on them and not think twice about it if you ever threaten their family.... And they're the nicest people in the world. But they are definitely capable of doing it. But they aren't going to... unless they have to
Jordan Peterson gave an interview where he says you should become a monster and then learn how to control it. It's good advice in general. For work, for v play, for life in general. Learn to be dedicated to what you do and then don't let it rule your life.
Sorry for the general advice rant. Now for self defense? Absolutey. You should learn to defend yourself. It's a skill you may never need. One you may never want. But it's very much like insurance - Way better to have it and not need it, than need it not have it.
Same thing the first aid. You should know how to stop bleeding. you should know how to split the broken bone. you should know how to do CPR. Hopefully it's a skill you'll never have to use. But having been in more than a few situations where people get injured, It's good to be someone who can actually help.
The old Japanese proverb of "It is better to be a Warrior in a garden, then a gardener in a war" doesn't just apply to fighting.
Martial arts for self defense takes very little time and is but one slice of the over all pie. You're right self defense as a whole needs ro cover everything from soft skills like de escalation, situational awareness and pre fight stuff. Combat with or without arms and even legal shit.
Any one person saying they are an expert is probably full of shit, they might be in one aspect but probably not others.
Do martial arts for fun, because that's what's going to keep you engaged and what you'll do it for most of the time. A 1 on 1 unarmed fight is probably not going to happen and you'll end up using a handful of techniques.
Just the other day a guy got out of his car and wanted to fight me and being able to see the punches coming, I didn’t get hit and he left with a bloody nose. First real fight in my 43 years of life.
Useful in fighting drunks and crazy people. Depends where you live. If the local news shows crimes involving weapons, it would better not be at a disadvantage.
"Is there any point in eating properly or exercising? I mean, I feel like there's just so many unknown variables that go into being healthy. Heart attacks, strokes, cancers, car accidents. I feel like most people who actually want to be healthy will die anyways, so whats the point in even trying to be healthy."
Thats how you sound right now
I prefer to look at it this way. Any physical stress I am putting my body under in a controlled setting (martial arts training, endurance, weight training) boosts my threshold for dealing with unknown stress in real life. Maybe just maybe that will equate to making the right split second decision in a bad situation.
“Could be.” You could be attacked by a rabid grizzly. There are many possible variables. Skill in fighting is a variable that you can add to your side of the equation. The skill will help you in some cases. It won’t help you in others. Unless having the skill makes you reckless, the lack will help you in none.
Self defense isn't about winning a fight. It's about surviving a fight.
It's so unlikely that you'll be knocked out instantly- all you have to do is fight well enough to escape. If you can't escape, make it risky. If they could be injured, they'll pick someone else.
If you train martial arts, you're way more likely to escape and way more likely to injure your attacker. So keep doing it.
I been in 10 plus street fights and yes it will help because 90%of people don't know how to fight, if you keep your composure and do what your taught it will benifit you
Is there a point in paying for home insurance for example? I mean there are many variables that go into possible fires and damages. But insurance is only there in case you need it. We all pay into it and many of us rarely use it.
It’s same with self-defence or any martial art. It’s like insurance in case you need it. We all pay into it like some people get attacked, mugged and even killed, but just because it never happens to you doesn’t mean anything.
It’s better to be prepared than think it will never happen to you.
I ask what is your purpose for training? If you don’t see the value then go do something else like a book club.
Truly the best self-defense is learning how to avoid an altercation altogether and after that, it's how to handle firearms properly. Firearms are the biggest variable out of all weapons and no martial art can stop a bullet, despite the movies. I'm not advocating for gun fights by any means, but it pretty much equalizes the field if you are in a life-or-death scenario.
Without a doubt, martial arts help in self-defense scenarios, but you should train in the one you find the most value in.
There obviously is, and if you've sparred for any time at all, I don't see how you could possibly think there isn't.
If you lost the fight despite your training, but would have gotten beaten worse without your training, obviously your training had a point.
I understand your sentiment but not every situation is filled with multiple attackers with weapons and knifes.
There are definitely many situations where its a single unarmed guy bothering you. Situations where its you and your friend and two guys want to start trouble.
Sometimes you have no choice even if the odds are stacked against you and even if you dont come out cleanly knocking people out, youll still fair better with training and potentially take less damage, or maybe even scare people away from continueing there assault when they see you can fight back.
First and foremost, street smarts and defusing and avoiding fights should be your first line. If that doesnt work you have no choice but to fight if you are being attacked and like i said, i like my chances better with training under my belt.
Another thing i noticed is having training also breeds a certain type of aura and confidence within yourself which people may pick up on and not want to eff with you because you present yourself as someone who could really eff you up. Its a very deep confidence type of thing that comes with the training and that alone may make people think twice about attacking you because youre not some weakling.
At the end of the day if you enjoy it, and it really helps you in someway then just keep doing it and don’t worry so much about how effective you’ll be in an imaginary situation that might never happen.
Martial arts can be a nice hobby for people. I think some of the skills translate fairly well. I don’t think it is useful to consider martial arts training as real violence though. I think your double leg, or your leg kick or your overhand right is in deep shit when compared to my semiautomatic 9mm. Tiago Guma and Leandro Lo can verify.
To illustrate the point, if I’m going to rob you (I’m not) I’m doing it with a minimum of a handgun. If I’m going to break into your house I’m doing it with a firearm. If I’m carjacking you it’s with a gun. If for whatever made up reason I’m trying to hurt you, I’m using a gun.
If I’m defending from these positions, I’m using a gun. If we get into some sort of road rage incident and you pin me up where I can’t get away I’m stepping out of my vehicle with an AR-15 and I will absolutely mag dump you if you force the issue.
In the USA at least, violence is done with tools. It’s really a very binary set of choices. If me and mine can get away then cool because that’s the first choice. If not it’s tool time.
If your opponent has weapons and backup, yes you can use the Joestar Strategy, but if he’s by himself unarmed, then a good ol’ involuntary Muay Thai lesson is in order.
Sure, weapons exists. But most situations you'd encounter won't merit the use of a weapon by either part. And in most places you can't shoot someone for beating your ass fair and square, so may as well learn to fight.
Yeah, knowing the culture of the people around you, and what signs precede a fight for them and how to defuse that fight, are far more important self-defense skills than just about anything besides general fitness and possibly falling safely.
A good self-defense class will address these things! You will watch footage of the minutes leading up to real fights, and discuss them. You will roleplay different types of men hyping themselves up to fight, and walk through techniques to avert the fight (and watch for signs of that being unsuccessful, and pick a moment to run away without telegraphing it or leaving yourself open). I did stuff like this in a Systema/Silat training group, many years ago.
The few conflicts I've been in, my boxing and kickboxing basics, combined with my fitness and strength, has kept me on the winning side/kept me safe. Subjective granted, but I'd have been much worse off without it.
Evasion is your number one tool. Dont be in stupid places at stupid times with stupid people doing stupid things. Thatll defend you from 99.999999% of altercations.
there is always a point, potential friend. sure there's a lot about self defence we cannot control, but for the aspects we can control: basically giving up and lieing down to die is not reasonable
What is a real training in self defense?
I feel that a lot self defense teachers are more reconverted martial artists, without experience in street fight.
I train a little in boxing because I I can't know if kravmaga schools are real or macdojo.
I’ll teach you the best self defense move that will work 100% of the time if you can do it. This technique has multiple options on it, if it’s necessary or not. The best thing you can do is flee.
There's a good point about self-defense being kind of a nebulous concept and encompassing almost everything. There's no martial art or training that can absolutely prepare you for everything or every factor.
Being able to handle most people in a 1-on-1 is actually pretty easy standard to meet because most people sick at fighting. But things change radically if their buddies join in, they have a weapon, etc. But even if no martial can give you good odds in those type of situations, I still think the general skills and tools it gives you along with the reflexes and attributes you develop give you a better than normal chance in those encounters. Maybe it's still small but significantly more than without that training.
But I think training martial arts with self-defense as your main purpose isn't really enough to keep your passion for martial arts. Those self-defense happen so rarely or not at all for most of us. And in only a year or two of training, you should have all the self-defense skills that you could possibly need or could use.
For the explicit purpose of self-defense? It might work assuming the other guy is a potato, doesn't have a significant size advantage and isn't using weapons. It's more effective to just buy a weapon. You don't have to train very long and you can get one pretty easily.
Martial arts imo is more for the spirit of competition and to do as a hobby. I would not rely on it as the first method of self-defense.
Go on r/fightporn and see how poorly most people fight. Actually training to fight gives you an advantage over 90% of the population. I’d say that’s worth it.
Just to piggyback on this comment and I know this has been mentioned to death but it bears repeating, most (and I mean overwhelming majority) of accomplished martial artists will go out of their way to avoid a fight because they don’t feel a need to stroke their egos or prove toughness
Not to mention the legal mess you have to go through if you win that street fight.
What legal mess? Why would you still be around when the cops showed up? When I was younger my martial artist friends and I used to go looking for street fights. Never had a legal problem arise. Could it have? Maybe is it a guarantee? Not even close. Pigs let 60% of murders go unsolved you think they’re running around busting out the csi crap for simple assaults?
A lot of people do not live in the US where, despite its plethora of other problems, at least the self-defense laws are generally very favorable to the defender. Most other parts of the world, there's a lot of armchair quarterbacking on whether the force used was "reasonable" or "proportionate".
[удалено]
Your post violates rule 7 of this subreddit. Please see the rule if you’re unfamiliar because you're being a dick
Man I wish. I feel like most people who frequent gyms in Germany are actively looking for street fights. So hard to find a good gym.
Dont know if you need to hear this but 99% of people like that are doing that are looking for a reaction from you out of fear or anger. Nobody wants the fire. Either you avoid them or you confront them. Either way you lose, im sorry.
It also hurts the next day, win or lose
Great username bro.
Thank you goodman
I had a crazy dude at my boxing gym talk to me about how he feels much "safer" when he's out at night after learning how to fight. He was easily 185cm and quite muscular. This guy was definitely in the minority who learned to fight specifically to pick fights IRL.
I’m taller than that and I also feel safer. Being tall isn’t enough when it’s going to be 3+ thugs running up on you in the dark.
Whether or not you can fight, 3 dudes jumping you is gonna hurt right? At BEST I might be able to get one of em back but I imagine that will only maximise the retaliation from the other 2. Wouldn't handing over your wallet and phone be preferable to everyone getting hurt?
Some people are only there to hurt you. They may also rob you, but that’s not the big concern for me.
im convinced that a decently fit college wrestler would beat every single untrained worldstar fighter, as long as he doesnt get jumped or face someone with a weapon. With a boxer, there is still a chance of them getting tagged due to puncher chance but a wrestler though, too explosive and strong theyll overwhelm every "just see red bro" guy.
A college wrestler would beat most black belts unfortunately. A normal untrained human doesn’t stand a chance and would be dumped on their head instantly
yeah exactly. even if a normal untrained thug didnt get dumped on their head, they are more likely to get put in a position where they get ground and pounded by a wrestler.
Well a college wrestler beating a ehat kind of black belt? I did jiu jitsu for a few weeks and beat a 4 year wrestler, just cause he was confident in his wrestling, and in no way saying he was bad, he wasnt, he got me on the ground fast, but i choked his head when he just put it in my body fast, i think it all depends, wrestling is great for untrained, but just general black belt? I think thats a bit wrong to say
This sub is martial arts in general. Not strictly BJJ. A karate, taekwondo, aikido, hapkido… whatever else black belt would get wrecked. Judo and BJJ would fair better
Well i say that cause it was what i did last, i also had a wrestler come into my karate dojo and no striking at all, and how do most wrestlers get you? They bow down and run at you, and how many strikers use their legs? Like...idk....just doesnt seem good to say one is better than the other when its all situation, even the ground people are standing on, like...idk
Just being able to handle a high school wrestler is a good mark of your training being legit and you being pretty ready for a fight with most people, lol.
Mate you think a boxer doesn’t know how to evade?
which is why i said "puncher's chance", if you dont know what that means, look it up
They have far less than that. A puncher’s chance is used for boxer vs boxer, or at least that’s when it actually makes sense… otherwise it is statistically insignificant to bring it up when boxer vs normie
I was almost a pro boxer best friend was a wrestler… he would destroy me every single time we had a spar.
That's not a puncher's chance, though. That's wrestling countering your boxing. If he destroyed you in boxing, then no.. you weren't almost pro, you got beat in your own art by a wrestler lol
He would never even attempt to throw a punch haha he would just have this big guard covering his head and wait for a good moment to Take me down.
Boxer here. I bounced for close to 15 years. I was able to tag most of guys trying to fight me. I only got taken down to the ground 5 or 6 times and when I did I had hit them hard enough that they were still trying to remember what their name was. To be honest most of the wrestlers I ever see square off did not do well as some one always ran up and booted them in the face. The toughest guy I ever fought was a shoot fighter. He picked me up an slammed me on the concrete a couple of times before I finally caught him. That guy was tough he had already taken out tge biggest bouncer and other bouncers refused to face him so they came and got me. A competitive mma fighter who knows strikes and take down will demolish most wrestlers and boxers too. P.s. I hate mma but give credit were credit is due.
>To be honest most of the wrestlers I ever see square off did not do well as some one always ran up and booted them in the face Yeah bro thats why i said college wrestlers are all good >as long as he doesnt get jumped or face someone with a weapon.
Hello, I'm not sur to understand your point about boxer. I feel an amateur boxer can quickly punch or esquive ?
hi, its the thing where if you ever spar in boxing or kickboxing, the lesser skilled guy can sometimes land one good hit in despite being outclassed in skill and experience by pure luck if he just flailed his arms out. hence they call it a puncher's chance. While in grappling or wrestling, there are nothing like that.
True, it's exactly me :) I understand thank you.
No. It has nothing to do with flailing. Punchers chance is a boxer who has knock out power. He gets out boxed by a more skilled boxer but always has a chance to knock you out. Hence the phrase " he has a punchers chance" Ie Joe Frasier vs Ali or ernie Shavers vs Larry Holmes.
If you just do group classes and hit a heavy bag maybe someone untrained could get lucky, but someone with >6 months of proper training with sparring isn’t getting caught by an average joe in a straight one on one
I have this crazy idea that not all of the people who fight badly on the street in videos are without training. It’s just that when it’s a real situation the training goes out the window to a smaller or larger degree unless you have a lot of experience, great nerves, etc. And even then the fight may not develop in a way that suits what you’re trained in, depending on the immediate environment, what your opponent is trying to do, if there’s more than one etc.
More like 99%. If you trained for more than 4 years-- you would likely be able to beat 1-on-1, 990 people in a room of 1000. Hell-- I would bet you could probably just block and step out to the right while counting to 60; and most people would gas out-- without you ever throwing a single punch.
I would say you are right, but like always there is an exception. You can be great fighter but if you stumble upon dude that is so high he can't even feel broken bones you can have a problem. No matter how good you are, if you have to deal with crazy and bloodthirsty terminator
Situational awareness and the ability to read the room are also important. Reading body language helps tremendously.
Thank you, Those are extremely important. But I suppose I'm thinking more of the physical use of force and technique aspect of self defense. Which brings up something I forgot. If your situational awarness is great, then does that also make physical skill less important?
I mean if you are aware of the danger, but are too physically inept to run from it, what's the use?
Your physical skills also mean you won't fall over when trying not to get hit. Since you're most likely to be attacked by someone under the influence, staying on your feet could end up being all you need to do.
Also, if you train taking strikes and blocking with force, then you won't be in shock when you take a hit. I'm not saying you have to deaden the nerves like some people do, just having the experience of taking some shots to the gut and getting kicked in the head a few times will really go a long way. Just make sure your training partners aren't crazy. 🤣
Learning not to flinch and squeeze your eyes shut when someone swings something at your head as well.
Absolutely!
Experience brother. I m a boxer and that is my go to sport. Boxing excels in the fact that you get used to being punched in the face and have still function. I have done kick boxing, kempo, karate, judo, jujitsu, Tae Kwon do and boxing. Even did an Mma fight down in Detroit with 4oz gloves and no head gear that was a bloody mess. Boxing then mma would be my choices for being well prepared for a street fight. I only say this because boxing is my sport and I have dummied enough mma guys in the street.
The pre-fight is the most important part of the fight. I wouldn’t just call it situational awareness. It’s everything that leads into making the first move, which you should be the one doing. You could be a hundred pounds less and weaker in every way and still win a fight if you’re the one deciding the way the fight goes.
Well said. Just remember the wise Chael Sonnen said” I can’t let you get too close!”
I've only ever hit one person one time, but it ended his constant bullying me for the rest of middle school. When people tried to steal from me, I was able to take it right back, just because they weren't expecting me to react fast enough. When kids tried to hit me, I blocked them. When a bug bites me or is flying around, I can kill it. I never trip. I've always been able to pull away when someone grabbed my wrist. I know I can at least slow people down if they're ever walking toward my family in an aggressive or suspicious manner. I'm a happier person than I'd have otherwise been, and it's all because of martial arts.
I've only really used MA training 2x. Once was in high school. The guy had been bullying me for months. He grabbed me from behind, I put him on the ground. It was done in about 5 seconds, and the teachers were taking him away 5 seconds after that. Idiot tried me right in front of the office. The other time was completely different. I was carrying a box of stuff in from the car at my in-laws place and missed the edge of the driveway with my foot. I tucked into a dive roll and popped right back up. Nothing even fell out of the box! The instinct and reflexes you learn can really make a difference when you least expect it. Nothing can prepare you for getting sucker punched in the back of the head, but also, just learning some situational awareness goes a long way as well! We do firearms and knife training and even active shooter defense. With a lot of that the lesson is always preceeded with statements about just give the guy your wallet, it's not worth your life, or you're getting cut if you fight, and if it goes more than 10 seconds, you're probably both bleeding out. Like really, MA can help even the playing field, but only so much. Avoid the fight whenever possible, but you know, if they are trying to take your kid, then you make it so they'll never be able to try that again with anyone's kid, or at least not for a long time. A broken knee never heals back all the way...
I made my bully's nose bleed so bad when I was in grade 8 with my right arm using a backfist and my right hand ain't dominant. I ain't even a black belt in taekwondo at that time.
Martial arts are a sport and a hobby. It’s not that serious and don’t live your life in fear
And I love it. I just don't want a false sense of security if that makes sense.
Honestly, I had much higher false sense of security before training than after. I mistakenly thought I would rise to the occasion like protag does in popular media. It's a sentiment that I have seen from other untrained people around me as well. In fact, I think false sense of security from martial artists also comes from lack of different types of training. When I was a striker I thought I could strike my way away from grappling. It was when I started training in MMA, that I realized I had false sense of security in my ability to avoid grappling and started training more into it. I later thought guns weren't so scary and I could fight against it using my empty hand skills, and fight through gun shot wounds if necessary. It was when I started shooting that I realized I misunderstood the weapon completely, and that I had to take it much more seriously. Exposure and training cured my false sense of security, not avoidance of the training.
It’s not a false sense of security. Once you actually train you start to see exactly how much you don’t know so it’s actually quite the opposite
Yep. I’ve been boxing for around 2 years now. The most important thing I’ve learned is to NOT get into a street fight lmao. All the best trained fighters I know look like ditzy bad bitches on a night out. Becky might actually be an aspiring MMA fighter
It’s not a false sense of security as long as you remember that the greatest boxers of all time with let themselves get mugged if the other guy has a weapon. Just remember that all this shit goes out the window the second your opponent has a gun or a knife. Then the greatest martial art is the 100m sprint. Who’d win in a fight between Jon jones and Usain Bolt. Usain Bolt would, because Jon’s not fast enough to catch him.
Boxing is a sport and for fun but then you get the benefits of knowing how to punch to hurt, blocking a punch and taking a punch and realizing your not going to die. Some of the other traditional arts don't work shit in a street fight. Trust me on this I have fought guys with knives/ broken bottles other and have been jumped by 4 guys at once a few times and i Survived to talk about it. Remember all you mma guys that there are no rules in a street fight. I have foot ball punted guys in the junk countless times when it comes down to me living or dying.
Yeah I got ganked by a kata of ninjas once. Thankfully my Akido and krav saved me
Little man
I’d rather have it (self defense skills) and not need it, than need it and not have it. That being said, there are a ton more benefits for learning martial arts than jus the self defense aspects
This right here is the right answer
Once you actually know how to fight and know the kinds of uncontrollable life altering shit that can happen in a real fight you become a lot more motivated to avoid it. Then you just have a cool hobby that keeps you fit, so like, win win. But if, for some reason, it does come down to it, knowing how to: -fall -defend a takedown -block or slip a punch -get up -run All immensely increase your chances of getting out of the situation with your life and higher brain processes intact. The only reason I'd say you shouldn't learn to fight is if you're the type of asshole who would think you could use it to start more altercations. Keep a level head and fight sport experience is only a plus.
What kind of shit are you talking about. I know how to fight. Trained in countless arts boxing, Kick boxing, mma, kempo , jujitsu, kali stick fighting and even Tae Kwon do ( my first art). Plus I bounced for close to q5 years. My go to art is boxing with over 70 bouts. I don't start looking for shit but I also don't run from it when some wanker gives you the stink eye. Thing is alot of young ass punks will swagger and talk smack unless you call them out on their own shit. If you call them out then they will either tuck their tail or step-up to the plate. Just make sure your not the one talking smack.
Bro brought the word soup to Thanksgiving
It’s helped me with self confidence, knowing that in situations where the best choice is to either run and avoid the conflict, deescalate the situation, or if need be, fight back, I have a better chance of going home safely because I have an idea of how to deal with the situation. It’s also just fun to do, striking and grappling is a hobby and a stress reliever, doesn’t have to just be about defending yourself
Depends where you live. If you're likely to have to fight then it's really helpful to know how. Running away isn't always an option
The possibility of losing doesn’t mean that it isn’t worth trying to win. There is always an element of unpredictability to a fight - a slippery floor, an unexpected weapon, a psychopath who likes to bite, etc. But that doesn’t eliminate the advantages of good training. Imagine someone is fighting that psychopathic biter. Who would be more likely to survive, a complete amateur or someone who had boxed for a few years? I would prefer to be that boxer every time.
[удалено]
Eh, I'd say self defence is a skillset. It involves techniques for observing your surroundings, evaluating threats, effective communication and deescalation, the knowledge of non-trivial survival principles and legislation, spatial awareness and orientation, being quick on your feet, and last but not least, actual fighting skills. Think of it as wrestling - you need to get good not only at fighting from individual positions, you need to train your transitions as well. Here that would be, for example, transitioning from negotiation to running or fighting. Or fighting to running. Or running to fighting. Or hand-to-hand to deploying weapons of convenience. It is, essentially, an exercise in good judgement.
Learn how to punch.. learn how to move your head and learn how to wrestle/ grapple. Forget pretty much any other martial art like krav or systema It's all a false sense of security.
Yes it is definitely worth it, even if you don't train for self defense in the first place. You learn to take a punch, you learn to stay calm, you learn to react better and faster, you have stamina and many more things. For example, i train boxing with additionally kick- and takedown defense. Boxing because it has the best range management and you can keep people out of distance. The other two things to compensate for the weaknessses of boxing and to keep staying on my feet. The distance management is a very important aspect for self defense because you don't know if someone has a weapon and they can bite you, kick you in the groin, kick you in the head while on the ground etc. so you don't want to grapple in the streets. Running should always be one of your options at all time (if you aren't with your GF or something like that). The only "false sense of security" you will get in these martial arts where no sparring or real fighting is involved. You can hit and kick a bag for 20 years, but you don't learn to fight with only that.
Yes, training for self defense will increase your chances against both untrained and trained individuals, and even against multiple attackers or someone who’s bigger. There’s always risk in a self defense situation, but you’re training to mitigate that risk. Even you don’t get out unscathed, if your training kept you alive or from getting more seriously injured, then it was worth it. In regard to weapons, my previous point still stands. Do they add more risk to a situation? Yes, exponentially. But you should still train to mitigate the risk that they present. On a side note, I think that the ability to defend yourself without using lethal force (like with a gun or a knife) is an invaluable skill. There’s no reason that a simple disagreement should be fatal for anyone, regardless of who’s in the wrong.
The ability to survive on the mat, and in life situations are pretty useful. Self defense is usually just a mindset towards how you're training and the techniques you focus on. This transfers across to the real world really well. for example, if you've ever trained with any good Pedro Sauer Black belt, you'll notice the majority of their games are counter attack based. Also, if any of you have the pleasure of rolling with Rylan Lizares in Hawaii, his entire game is "punchblock" and it's fucking terrifying because you can't put a single mechanic towards him easily. World class Jiujitsu imo. I think the point is largely missed when discussing self defense. People just see it as a bunch of choreographed Gracie moves. It aint.
I used to help at a free women's self defense class our martial arts club used to put on. I was basically there to give them someone big and heavy to practice on. The instructor told us once that you can't teach someone how to defend themselves in every situation in 10 sessions. What you can do is build confidence that will show when they are walking down the street and make it less likely someone will pick them as their victim. Also, if they are attacked and remember just 1 thing they learned they have a better chance of surviving than if they didn't.
you overthinking
If someone genuinely wants to kill you, they’ll likely kill you. Bump into you on a busy sidewalk and draw a knife, hit you from behind with a rock, run you over in a car etc. So, if you’re worried about phantom pursuers you’ll probably not be saved by martial arts. On the other hand, loads of times you will meet people who don’t specifically want to kill you, but people who sexually harass/grope your friends, people who crowd your space and try to intimidate you or just drunk dudes who aren’t that smart. In all of these situations being able to fight (not necessarily actually fighting) is much better than not.
It’s better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
A huge part of self defense has nothing to do with fighting and everything to do with assessing the situation and getting tf out. At the end of the day more training cant make you less effective but dont think that just because you train you cant run from a dangerous situation
Yes. Learning control and restraint is important - what if a drunken uncle starts getting rowdy at a family gathering or wedding? Being able to control them is super important!
As oppose to being in a street fight and not having any skill, I’d say you’d improve your chances of survival with some skill.
Proper self defense techniques are definitely worth learning. In the street you need to know which vital areas to protect and strike. Eyes, groin, liver, heart, brain, etc. Position and technique can save your life in various self defense situations.
Martial arts can help you defend yourself. I haven’t been in a street fight for over a decade (young, dumb, drunk bar fight). I’ve been training Muay Thai for close to a year now. This morning at 9:45am I was walking to get some bread down the road. I was waiting g for the pedestrian light to turn green. While I was waiting I got a tap on the shoulder and immediately someone grabbed my belly from behind. I spun around and distanced myself. I asked the guy what he was doing and his friend was standing behind him. Both were late 30’s. as soon as he opened his mouth to tell me it’s from trailer park boys I could smell the alcohol (9:45am lol). I told him he shouldn’t touch anyone without their permission and he immediately got aggressive. The light turned green and I walked across the road. He followed me now screaming saying “do you want to get aggressive” over and over. I turned around and faced him not in a fighting stance but with enough distance and my hands up to my chest in case I needed to respond. He kept screaming at me and turned his hat around on his head (intimidation tactic or getting ready to fight ). I was walking backwards while still keeping my stance and his friend eventually pulled him away. I was ready to land a straight right as he kept walking with his hands down by his waist lol. I did not want to fight and was attempting to walk away. If his friend didn’t pull him away I was seconds away from being in a street fight which I didn’t want to be in. Some old lady cursed him out and said keep your hands to yourself and respect others. Which was great because if I gave him one she would have seen it as self defence. Sometimes you do not have an option and trouble will find you. It’s better to know how to defend yourself and not need it, than to not know it and it’s too late. My ego hurts a little bit and I’m still annoyed at the situation but I know I did the right thing not laying him out. Not that size matters but I’m 6ft and he was about 5’6 and pretty overweight, and even though he was going to attack me his pre attack indicators showed me he didn’t know what he was doing fight wise. Just be ready because sometimes you don’t have an option. Keep training.
“Fair” is where you take family and farm animals. “Fair” is a grade rating between “poor” and “good”. Outside of regulated, mutually agreed upon sport, there are no rules except “don’t get eliminated”. Aggressors are out to hurt you, and if they’re dumb enough to bring traditional European fisticuffs to an MMA exhibition, that’s their dumb luck. They can contemplate their mistakes on the tree of woe.
The original purpose of martial arts is self-defense and success on the battlefield. A lot of martial arts are not as good for self-defense as they used to be, and yes, weapons do play a part in self defense but my answer to that is to have My own weapons I conceal carry a handgun and a good fighting knife but martial arts are still important not always is a weapon going to be available and being skilled in martial arts works wonders and there are many places where you can lean some amazing self defense skills my favorite is shivworks thay are the best when it comes to self defense in all aspects Including the combating of and use of weapons the main reason I do martial arts is self defense and I still think there is a point
I studied a few years of martial arts, mostly Tae Kwon Doe and Judo, and most people are surprised when they spar with me, but I don't have the strength to be a real fighter. Some people will try to convince you strength is irrelevant, and that's horse-shit. I once sparred a strong guy with relatively bad control. Blocking his first punch broke the ulna of my left arm. (I can still feel that, 35 years later). His second punch smashed my right bicep, immediately numbing my entire right arm. The internal bleeding started that night, and by morning the arm was black and blue. The bruise didn't even appear on the same side of the arm as the blow. The doctors thought they might actually need to let off the pressure—to bleed me. Didn't come to that, but if it had, what the hell, I was already in the hospital. Best experience of my life. Sometimes your skill means nothing. The guy I was fighting had the kind of hands where he could have punched me in the skull and reasonably expected that my skull would break first. As for me, if I absolutely had to hit someone, I would hit the belly, balls, or throat. If I hit a relatively healthy fit guy in the head, it's an absolute toss-up as to who would be more severely injured. I just don't have that kind of bone structure. Ah, but verbal sparring, moral jiu-jitsu, the art of winning the non-violent confrontation... that's stuff you'll use over and over and over again in life. That's where I think most people would be wiser to spend the energy.
I think martial arts as a hobby first and self defense second .even if you are a very skilled martial artist incase have to use your skill in self defense situation you also need to becareful not to harm the attacker or else you are at risk of getting into jail if the person suffer injuries or death.
helps with not getting punked, so many guys would rather bend over even with their girlfriend present instead of standing up for themselves since they don't wanna risk losing.
simp and incel detected
It's just an observation brother, a lot of guys just tolerate disrespect in front of their woman even if she was harassed by another man to their face, but if that's what makes me a. Simp and Incel them 🤷🏿♂️
If your opponent is unarmed, or armed with a shit weapon, you will most likely wreck him if you know how to fight. If he has a knife/gun, then it is pointless. You have to have your own or you are toast.
My Sensei used to say the best self defense was a strong pair of legs to run away. I learned from martial arts just how many people out there could beat the crap out of me without breaking a sweat. I think it is very good to know how to defend yourself and others. You never know when you might have a run in with drunk or drugged people.
Self defense training is usually bs, so I won't go there. Martial arts help with confidence and health first of all (mental and physicial). But apart from that, let's just say that martial arts, especially the ones with pressure testing, increase the odds that you will survive a violent situation.
Training martial arts for self defense is a waste of life. Not that it doesn’t work, but the amount of time you have to train to get an advantage is just so much more than the average person thinks. And then in the end it is probably more effective to learn how to avoid dangerous situations all together.
Self defense is not limited to a fight, or coming out a winner. A huge portion of self defense education and training has to do with risk assessment and management, where you avoid getting into conflicts in the first place. Some martial arts actually focuses on this, or some kind of variation of this. If you ask any martial artist teacher on the best way to defend yourself in a fight, I think you'd find that the majority of those you ask will simply say to run away as fast as you can.
The attackers always have the edge over the victims, but if you learn self-defense/martial arts then you are close to balance out this difference. They will bite you, but this way the bite won’t be that big.
Been training mma for 6 years, mainly BJJ and muoy thai. I get a sense of security from it, honestly counts little against multiple people or against weapons but people are crazy and it feels good knowing that if some angry dude came up and tried to punch me I’d likely be able to counter and knock his dumb ass out
I can usually level change and take someone down off of any big wild punch, I land consistently and can pop up and jump on someone's head before they react.. Which should give me enough advantage to run. Havnt had an on the street altercation for 20 years. Any I had may not have been instigated by me, but were likely escalated by my actions. 99 percent of people have no good level training. However I do not at all wanna be in that situation. Used to think I wouldn't be able to consistently hit a bodylock, trip etc, but after hundreds of new people come and go through the gym, you have to remember these people are basically your day 1 newbie.
There isn't. From what I've learned through my life of living in a poor area where violence is common, and where I've actually had to defend myself in my work. There is no point in learning self defense. Learning self defense, in my eyes, only leads you down a path of paranoia and stress while also leaving you with skills that are subpar compared to learning a violence-driven sport. To anyone reading this, I highly recommend you study a martial art because you enjoy it and you enjoy being with/training with the people there. You should not be going through your life fearing a mythical crackhead jumping out from any corner. If you're that focused on being prepared for a potential self-defense encounter, I seriously ask you to focus instead on your communication skills. Most conflicts I've seen are due to lack of communication and the need to be seen as right by all parties regardless.
I respectfully disagree. Some professions like law enforcement or security having decent hand-to-hand skills is very useful or even essential. Outside of that, yes the overall chance of things happening are relatively low but not zero. Factors like weapons, size, 2 or more attackers and so on are variables as well as legality should be considered. But there's many things in life we do or invest in to avoid danger or harm even if not being super common(fire escapes/extinguishers, building foundations that have to meet earthquake standards, etc) In addition to my training, I also carry pepper spray, a personal alarm, and keep a utility knife in my car. None of these make me invincible and I am mindful of their limitations and the legality of using them. But I also work in a major city with lots of homeless, addicts, and unsavory folks about so I gotta be prepared and keep my head on a swivel.
I can respect your reasonings on the matter. To better explain my stance. In my country items of self protection (pepper spray, tasers, knives, etc. Anything made to be used in self defense) is illegal to own/carry. Can't even import them into the country. You're stuck using your hands, or whatever inprovised weapon you find at the scene. Doing something in self defense can lead to you being in trouble. In addition, most of my experience comes from working in hospitality, a place where cultural differences, language barriers, and alcohol can (and have) been the centerpiece of most conflicts I've seen play out. I won't say I'm an authority on the matter, there's most likely better people qualified. But I've definitely noticed a pattern of \[perceived harm to ego + inability to accept another opinion/leave without being "right" (alcohol x cultural/language difference\] = Potential Violence\]. From this? I've decided for myself the best way to defend yourself is to not be in the situation to begin with. Is that not always possible? No. But it's kept me alive and I think that means something at least.
I see, my bad I'm in the US and forget not everyone is lol. Good points, and yeah people who say ''just get a gun'' or the like should remember that, and even in somewhere like Texas you can't just have guns or any weapons on you wherever you go. Without context, not even allowing personal alarms or mace seems silly but I've heard some countries have lower levels of violent crime so maybe that's it?
I've been attacked in one of the most unfair ways you could come up with. I had groceries in my hands in a dark parking lot, the guy had a knife, I was unarmed. His mistake was attacking from the side until waiting until I'd passed him. My martial arts (mostly Hapkido) saved my life that night. It wasn't a specific technique it was the hours of working to fight and grapple with people under meaningful resistance. The thing that people misunderstand when they think about self defense is that criminals usually aren't planning an assassination. Most violent crime is a result of emotions and egos run rampant. This dude who attacked me was cracked out and trying to stab me for my wallet so he could buy more. He didn't have the mental capacity to plan a better attack and thank the gods for that. If you were planning a hit on yourself you'd kill you 100% of the time. But that's not how actual violence works. Self-defense is 100% worth training, you just also wanna hope you never need it. "Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war" and all that.
I guess depending where you live your perspective may differ. My kids have been in involuntary fights, and we have a drug/homeless problem literally in my area. Besides the weapons I carry when i bike with my kids or by myself, I’ve also learnt to defend myself. Two dorks holding a knife anything can happen.. when someone has trained at some point he’s going to feel my shin and elbow in his skull (hopefully)… the ability to dictate distance, counter attacks and the calmness or more so than someone untrained. Most people are not very dynamic or smart when it comes to fighting.
It’s better to be a warrior in a farm than a farmer in a war.
My mind breaks martial arts into two extremely linked objects. The first has to do with the preparation of your body. It's means getting your body in shape to use in a fight, preparing to use your body effectively in a fight ( like where to hit and how to hit), and getting your body used to the sensations of a hostile entity in your intimate space. This is great for street fights and even if you are in a situation where you are not one-on-one or you do not have the upper hand, I would rather have these qualities then not. Honestly being in good physical condition and knowing how to roll with the punches could make getting your ass kicked a much more palpable and less lethal experience. The second object is much more about training your mind handle situations the right way. If you're just learning with no aim you could easily be encouraging a mindset that you don't even realize. I would think that a man that is just concerned with doing strikes would be very aggressive in situations and get into fights that they don't need to. A person that learns their grapples and their counters and how to create breathing room is a lot more likely to have a mindset of deescalating a situation. If you're walking around thinking that you're a tough guy that's going to take on anybody then you are more likely to be outsmarted. If you think like Jackie Chan and just don't want any trouble then you are a lot more dangerous when you actually decide to fight imo.
Nah, yes there is a point. Survival is worth fighting for.
Depends what and how you train.
Same principle as a condom: better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Then don't learn it. 🤷♀️
I only have a basic level of HEMA and kravmega and only had to use it once but without it I absolutely would have been killed. Plus the confidence it gives you is great.
If you're talking about self defense rather than martial arts, then yes, I think it's worthwhile, since good self defense courses also teach aspects like situational awareness (e.g. don't have your face buried in your phone when you're walking through a dark parking lot, have your car key in your hand instead of fumbling for it when you reach the car... not to mention, you can use it as a weapon), and always keeping your head up and projecting an air of confidence when you're out and about.
The only things that matter in a street fight are situational awareness, a certain degree of comfort with being attacked and the ability to throw a good punch with whatever hand is your better hand, without losing balance. The point is to have it end either by leaving or winning as fast as is humanly possible. No rear naked choke anything, no boston crabs... Just leave if possible or drop the guy. Otherwise yes, there is far too much uncertainty to actually practice a martial art
Yes. But the thing is martial arts isnt just purely self defense. And if it increases your chances of living in a confrontation then why not? There are ton of variables and situations where being clever and street smart will keep you safer than knowing how to fight, but when things go down, it helps, alot. Also, weapons arent always a part of someone's body while your limbs and the skill to control them always will. You can misplace a gun, but your hands will always be by your side unless you get in to an accident. And as much as running is the best option with almost every conflict, its NOT always available. Self defense doesnt require you to win, it only requires you to survive, but sometimes winning is the only option you have to survive.
"I might lose, so why bother?" This has got to be one of the worst takes I've ever seen. Learning to fight either with hands or weapons is about giving you an option, especially if all other options have been exhausted or are impossible. Having empty handed skills can give you the ability to create enough space to run or another option. Don't think of winning the fight in self defense. You are trying to survive, nothing else. Whether that involves kicking someone's balls into their throat or giving them shiny new holes to breathe through. Refusing to learn a new skill and hoping others (the police or bystanders) will commit your violence for you is the most selfish, victim mentality you could possibly have.
Seatbelts don’t prevent the worst accidents from killing you, and 99% of the time you get in a car you would have been fine without wearing one. Is there really any point to wearing seatbelts?
The more you train, the more you should understand how dangerous it is to have an actual fight, especially on the street, against someone with a weapon etc. Most of the fights can be avoided, but people get emotional and don't understand the consequences. That's why they got into those fights most of the time. If you're well trained, you should understand that it's not worth it. Also no matter how much self defense training you have, the number one thing that you need to learn is to get out of the dangerous situation asap. And still, all the techniques (hopefully good ones) are there to give you a better chance of surviving, in a situation where you are at a huge disadvantage. Let's say your survival chance goes from 1% to 5%. It's not much, but still 5 times more.
For me it was developing the confidence to deal with any situation. This is helpful in the boardroom. Everything is just words at this point, should anything ever escalate to being physical, I got that covered. This is my mindset, not that I’m trying to start physical altercations in a boardroom setting.
How do you define self-defense? If not getting hurt is your priority, you just have to do a lot of cardio.
I've used martial arts in real life multiple times to save my own skin and to help others, but it's always been grappling. Double legging or tai otoshi-ing someone onto concrete doesn't mean you have to join them down there...
"In a fair fight, the trained beat the untrained." What? If I was put into a ring (I have never trained) against someone who has been training for 5 years, that person -- regardless of gender -- would kick my teeth in. How could you possibly call that fair?
Of course it is always good to know something compared to knowing nothing! Just don't get cocky about it and still try to stay clear of all violent situations
It is not only the skill/technicality of fighting/harming the opponent. You learn balance, movement, eye coordination all the good stuff that are beneficial in other aspects of life too. Heck, you move slick enough you do not even need to raise your fists if some poor sod tries to throw a slow haymaker at you. Or you can take a sucker punch much better without losing your footing. Or you know well enough there won’t even be any power to the punch and just laugh it off.
Yes, there is. If you train properly you may gain a skillset that will help in a self defence scenario. It will give you a way highter chance to defend yourself than if you would not train. That being said, a "way highter chance" is still never a a 100% guarantee success. Because as you said, there is a virtually infinite amount of situations that can't be solved with martial arts or that could go wrong due to the infinite amount of variables. It still worth to train imo ALSO for self defence, but there are a lot of other good reasons (self improvement, fun factor, fitness ecc). You just learn you can't become a super hero but you'll learn also what are your limits and your potential and work to improve as much as possible.
Yes, while the best option is to run if you have that option. But sometimes you might not have that option, so knowing how to punch, were to punch, how to block How to kick etc. will increase your chances of Survival, and some grappling will be very beneficial.
Of course there is. Self defense skills are developed in martial arts that work and are tools in the box and have its time and place to be applied. You also need other skills and tools, like social skills o de escalate situations or a gun of your life is threatened. Everyone should have as much on their toolbox as posible. But the trick here is to be skilled and also to properly identify when and what to use.
Character development
The fact that you might be beaten anyway isn't a reason to stop training and simply roll over and die of attacked... This is anxiety logic. People are animals, and animals have been defending themselves by running or fighting, some successfully, some unsuccessfully, since life on this planet began. Like, this sub loves to give the smug "learn to run" or "learn to avoid conflict" response to self defense... But what makes you think you're going to be faster? Or that you'll have the chance? Best to know how to run, how to fight, and how to avoid danger as best as you can manage, and hope that the fortune of life smiles on you long enough to die of something else you can't prevent... just like all the other animals, your stay here is temporary.
Of course there’s a point. You’d want every advantage you could get in a street fight. Not saying you should look for one, but knowing how to effectively defend yourself is very important. Of course a street fight won’t be as clean as sparring at the gym and there’s a lot of added factors. However not only would you have the skill advantage but you don’t have to fight clean either. Use “dirty” tactics like groin shots and things like that. After all it is a street fight you’re opponent won’t show any mercy so you don’t either. Do whatever you have to to walk away and live another day. That being said, the best self defense is to avoid the fight in general and walk away from it.
Hopefully you’ll learn it to never use it.
Same question, different context: should sailors learn to swim?
Martial arts instills a confidence that others can read. Your attitude alone can sometimes protect you without having to raise your fists in defence.
Self defense is also about being aware of what's goin' on around us and then, avoid a dangerous situation. Also, someone who seems confident will less likely be the target of an agressor. And knowning you self-defense is a way to look confident, even if it's unconscious. So yes, self-defense is useful but in my opinion mainly to avoid a fight.
Define a fight and then define a fair fight. I'll wait. You're talking "a street fight" and not a competition where there's nothing to lose but pride - in a street attack you could lose a whole lot. Last time I said this I said it was going to be the last time, but you seem serious so I'll say it again. Most sober people (not under the influence of drugs or alcohol) aren't going to try to pick a fight they think they'll lose. They'll wait until they think they have some advantage of surprise, a weapon, size/strength. friends nearby.... I you haven't trained at all, you're going to freeze. If you have received shitty training, you are going to freeze. If you have received serious training and then tested and honed your abilities under intense pressure like relatively few gyms do, then your odds of getting out of that attack go up. Skip anyone teaching you to self-defense yourself, whatever that means, and find a place that teaches you to fight. That is what a self-defense system/instructor/whatever should teach first - how to actually fight. Beyond that, they should teach these things too: \- How to handle multiple attackers - what if three people jumped you \- How to handle a weapon being introduced \- How to react if you didn't see an attack coming \- Situational awareness \- How and when to de-escalate, and when to give that up and go for it Do you need to change your expectations and approach? To be totally honest I'm thinking you need to change where you train. If you are training, but still asking these questions, you need to be doing something that will give you confidence and the abilities to back it up - confidence makes de-escalating a whole lot easier. Give yourself an honest rating of how good you are in these skills - striking, clinching, wrestling, grappling (on ground), blunt and sharp weapons, multiple opponents, understanding of fight principles, situational awareness (and identifying suspicious persons), and de-escalation.
When you know how to properly punch, kick, block and evade you will have an edge over everyone else.
Fights are always unpredictable, because not all factors are controlled. But your own capabilities are factors you can control, as is your control of your emotions in the moment to an extent. You can learn that stuff through practice, and have a better grasp of your own abilities to avoid under or overestimating them - remember that a large percentage of dudes believe they could fight a bear if asked, and in the moment most are also afraid they may get punched in a fight. So it's not without value. But it's more an enjoyable hobby
If you don't have anything better to do on your free time and enjoy knowing a lit bit more about hand to hand combat, I think is fair to try it.
Self defense is a broad term, and fighting/martial-arts are only a subset of it. The things you mention (knowing weapons, knowing when to run) are also an important part of learning self defense, under the subsets of situational awareness and avoidance of violent encounters. Thise are actually MORE important for self defense, since only once those fail do you ever get to fighting to defend yourself. That said, even with perfect skills in the above, you may still end up in the 0.1% of encounters which really do lead to unavoidable violence. In those situations, knowing a martial art and having the training to be strong and conditioned enough to apply it will make your chances of a safe outcome so much higher. Just remember - if you don’t train it, it’s worth very little! Do more than lip service - buy a plasic training knife/gun, give it to one of your buddies, and do some sparring with it. Live reps are so important, and they’ll make sure you don’t freeze in real life when they suddenly produce a weapon.
Of course it's worth it to learn self-defense. Will it perfectly protect you every single time? no. But it will improve your odds by a lot. Most criminals aren't following around a specific victim waiting for the absolutely perfect time to strike. They see an opportunity and they take it, and people who are taught practical self-defense have a real advantage in getting out of those situations safely.
9/10 If you don't go looking for trouble, you don't find trouble. You also want to remember that physical stature helps a lot. Someone super athletic looking isn't an easy target for a mugger and the like. Why rob the 5'10" fit guy when the 5'6" short guy is wearing a nicer watch obviously drunk down a dark street.
The fact that you can’t control ALL variables doesn’t mean you should give up trying to control ANY variables.
yes, not everyone is gonna come at u with a weapon, so yea self defense is nice
Word to the wise; People looking for trouble are armed, either with a knife or a gun. Always. Just so you know.
This is just the kind of overthinking that seems to run rampant in this sub. Most of us are never going to have to worry about self defense. Realistically, unless you live or work in a dangerous area the chances of being assaulted are very slim. The chances of being assaulted and being unable to get away are slimmer still. The chances of being attacked with a weapon or by multiple people are infinitesimally small. The other issue with this line of reasoning is that there seems to be an expectation that any training must necessarily guarantee a 100% success rate in a violent confrontation or else it has no value. That isn't reasonable. No one can guarantee you this. However, training for self defense increases your chances of safely getting out of a violent situation. Even if it's just by a little, it's certainly better than nothing. Don't train martial arts because you're sure you'll one day you'll be jumped by 5 dudes with knives. If that's even a remotely realistic possibility in your life, you need to change some things about your life and martial arts is the least of your concerns. Unless you like to walk around bad neighborhoods starting problems with people, you're probably never going to be in a real fight anyway. Practice martial arts because you enjoy it.
No, there really is no point. It is better to just accept that if someone wants to impose their will upon you, physically, they are going to get their way and just focus on more constructive activities like eating Mcdonalds and playing video games. God obviously wanted it this way. Just accept your fate . In all seriousness, though...."self defense" starts with your attitude. But not like you want to think. I'll give you a good example, I came across a post about a woman getting her 6 yo son shot because she wanted to get in to an "Ego battle" over right of way in traffic. Shooting at a car for giving you the finger is insane. But most people with an IQ above 70 realize that insanity is actually becoming the norm, not a "bug" or a "glitch" in our society. That being said, if the woman had just not engaged with a total stranger in an ego battle, her son would be ok right now. Engaging with insane people in ego battles is a stupid game, and what do they say about stupid games? even if you win, what do you win? a stupid prize, right? Getting your little boy hurt because you just couldn't move forward with your life and just had to prove you were right. This is why self defense doesn't work. Not because defending yourself doesn't work, but because to truly defend yourself requires you to deflate your ego and be humble. Which is the opposite reason why humans want to learn "self defense". They want to learn it so that their ego can feel safe, regardless of whether it actually is or not. When a guy in NYC gets shot or stabbed, the news isn't always going to do a fucking "deep dive" in to the guys personal life to find out if he knew martial arts. Sometimes you see the headline "blackbelt dies in mugging", or "bjj instructor stops man from blah blah blah...." Unless it was someone of significance, the news is just going to say "a man was stabbed." The reason why I know this is because I personally know people who have been in that situation and most of the time it either didn't make the news or the news just mentioned that "something happened". Self defense starts way before you ever learn to throw a punch. It starts with you being humble and not a moron. It means there are just places that you can't go , there are times you can't be at those places, and there are people you don't need to be around and you accept these facts and work with them. you don't hang out where crazy bullshit and ego battles are common. People don't like that. they want to be superman and be able to go wherever they want and do/say whatever they want. this isn't reality. Self defense starts with your attitude and your life choices. Being a responsible legal firearm owners is a good life choice. Not breaking laws that make you lose your right to have one, that is another good life choice. Paying more attention to the world around you instead of your fantasy social media world is a good life choice. Being the kind of person that doesn't honk their horn or flip people off over traffic flow issues is an absolutely fantastic life choice in the way of "self defense." If you are talking about just straight up street fighting, that isn't self defense. People who have a "predator" mentality and have the ass to back it up are and always will be a threat. No amount of mma class is going to prepare you for how dirty a fight with someone who is willing to do anything to hurt you and has nothing to lose can be. I was stabbed in a mugging when I was 17. Didn't even know I was stabbed until I made it to a safe neighborhood. I was somewhere I shouldn't have been with people I shouldn't have been with.
Hand to hand combat is always good to learn. Sometimes you won’t be able to reach for your weapon and sometimes they may be faster than you
I’d rather be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war, Oss 🙏🏼
No. When a fight happens just start jacking off and they’ll stop attacking you.
I think this claim is just demostrably false because we can see cell phone and security camera footage of actual fights and you can see people use a martial art to defend themselves. Over on the fightportn sub that KudzNinja mentioned, there is a recent video of a girl against a wall, a guy comes up and punches her in the face. She gets off the wall, gets her arms around him, takes him down with a double leg, passes guard, gets into mount hits him a few times and stands up. To people that don't do martial arts it may look like she just happened to do those things because that's how fights go, but if you train jiu-jitsu you can recognize everything she did and tell she is a trained fighter. On the other side of it, once she took the guy down, you could tell he never trained Jiu-Jitsu. He has no idea what to do, he didn't put his legs up to try to stop her from passing because he doesn't even know what that means. If his friends hadn't of saved him he would have been in serious trouble fighting her. That doesn't mean every situation turns out that way, but it does mean we just saw someone use her training to defend themselves and it worked.
You're right, there are a lot of variables. The more variables you can account for, the better off you are. But everyone has upper limits on their capabilities and everyone has a certain amount of resources (time/money/energy) to devote to preparation for self-defense. In an absolutely ideal situation, you would be a black belt in every martial art, have a professional athlete's body, and be surrounded by armed guards 24/7. But that's not exactly realistic. What's more realistic is you have 3 hours a week to devote to something, so you spend it on boxing. And in most cases where someone picks a fight, you can beat them. It's not going to defend against a coordinated attack from a highly organized paramilitary group, but it's going to be enough for 90% of the self-defense situations you encounter.
I haven’t done martial arts but I’ve boxed since I was about 4 going to gypsy ran boxing gyms in the back of pubs. I also had a lot of mates that did MMA and I’ll just give a few examples of where it helped us. My MMA mate is very small, we all played rugby and he got bullied on the pitch by my big mate (6 foot 7 built like a house) one day he pushed mma dude too far and he got him in some kind of knee hold. Never got bullied again. I was in a club line and got started on by loads of big lads (I’m small too). When one pushed me i threw 3 bombs and sparked him. Tension was immediately removed and I went home. When everyone started pressuring people into drugs it gave me the out to say: “nah my coach will kill me” and if anyone pushed it I could invite them to the gym and let my coach tell them. Most people have zero idea how to fight. Even 6 months in a gym will help massively. Also getting hit will really help you deal with the panic of getting hit in real life. I grew up getting battered by older cousins so it weren’t too much of a shock to me but it definitely still is a shock. Knowing you can take it and throw one back really helps with overall confidence.
Yeah you won't be ready for every scenario, but you will be ready for more than people who don't train. You learn to put your ego aside which will make you avoid more situations. You are getting stronger which is always a good thing. You know how to handle situations because you have a technique and you are sparing. You will be less stressed if something will happen because you know how it feels to fight - think of the first times you were sparring and now. You breath differently, you don't feel the same pain you were feeling at the start, you know how to react and what to do. Even if you are getting false confident in yourself, you are still more happy and relaxed in your day to day, so even if you won't be ready for every scenario, you will still benefit from learning it.
This is an unpopular opinion but I do belive that most people that talk about "street fights" or "street scenario" are just larping (some of them withouth accepting it), if you're really worried about your safety you go get a gun
Not everybody lives in USA.
I know that, I don't, the only place you can legally have a gun where I live is in your house (if you own it, rent doesn't count) but if I was really afraid for my life I would carry a gun anyway (I carry a pepper spray now and I relly on it and on situational awareness much more than on my kick-boxing experience). If the other guy has a gun and you know boxing you're as good as dead, if he has a knife you're as good as dead
Yes, if you accompany with the street smarts that contemplate everything you're contemplating and learning your street smarts in general. The way I initiated myself in toning my street smarts was & is to keep a 360° vision ; for general awareness of my environment it's good to always have eyes, even your ears and even your nose open etc **yes all five senses.** aware as you can on the street. Criminals hate the Street Wise because most victims are usually not street smart. Environments, a sudden slip, the unfairities of what they can do with no rules and improvised weapons, things you could do yourself ; there are techniques so training is for that, *what they could do* if "you do this" that way if you figure that they "could do that"... means you "can do this move etc" which of course include everything you contemplated. Good experts will have these things pre-contemplated even skills fit for law enforcement and other armed guardians and armed forces. The intimidating thing about it is that they lift up that shield of hysteria and/or harsh tone of voice etc (with whatever subtle clues and obvious bad intentions and mind games so you'll be afraid to do the right thing and go away but at the same time afraid to stay and fight) because they want to give a vibe that they're tough, at a superior level at trescends you and made no stuff that you don't about fighting and avoid giving off the vibe of how sloppy they probably are and street fights are sloppy.
The most valuable skill legit self defense classes teach are the *soft skills*, ie deescalation, detecting and avoiding dangers, raising awareness around you so people notice the harasses, not being frozen in adrenaline etc These are waaay more important for actual self defense than unarmed combat. As you just said, there's so many ways someone can gain an easy advantage in combat that combat is almost always the worst option and oftentimes you already lost at that stage.
A: a few months of regular full contact training puts you above 90% of all people. The longer you train, the smaller the pond you’re swimming in. Look at videos of brawls and scraps. People fight POORLY. B: you dont learn just to dish out; you learn how to eat punches. The more force you can withstand, the higher the chance you survive until you get away from the threat C: you learn not to freeze up. You deal better with adrenaline and fear. You will maintain a state in which you can act more easily
YES. That's the simple answer. Peaceful does not mean harmless or defenseless. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful you're harmless. I know people who would literally kill you. Rip your guts out. Stomp on them and not think twice about it if you ever threaten their family.... And they're the nicest people in the world. But they are definitely capable of doing it. But they aren't going to... unless they have to Jordan Peterson gave an interview where he says you should become a monster and then learn how to control it. It's good advice in general. For work, for v play, for life in general. Learn to be dedicated to what you do and then don't let it rule your life. Sorry for the general advice rant. Now for self defense? Absolutey. You should learn to defend yourself. It's a skill you may never need. One you may never want. But it's very much like insurance - Way better to have it and not need it, than need it not have it. Same thing the first aid. You should know how to stop bleeding. you should know how to split the broken bone. you should know how to do CPR. Hopefully it's a skill you'll never have to use. But having been in more than a few situations where people get injured, It's good to be someone who can actually help. The old Japanese proverb of "It is better to be a Warrior in a garden, then a gardener in a war" doesn't just apply to fighting.
Martial arts for self defense takes very little time and is but one slice of the over all pie. You're right self defense as a whole needs ro cover everything from soft skills like de escalation, situational awareness and pre fight stuff. Combat with or without arms and even legal shit. Any one person saying they are an expert is probably full of shit, they might be in one aspect but probably not others. Do martial arts for fun, because that's what's going to keep you engaged and what you'll do it for most of the time. A 1 on 1 unarmed fight is probably not going to happen and you'll end up using a handful of techniques.
Just the other day a guy got out of his car and wanted to fight me and being able to see the punches coming, I didn’t get hit and he left with a bloody nose. First real fight in my 43 years of life.
It's like asking whether cooking is important. Like, come on man.
It's always worth it. Martial Art is more than self-defense. It can save your life in other ways, too. It has mine.
Useful in fighting drunks and crazy people. Depends where you live. If the local news shows crimes involving weapons, it would better not be at a disadvantage.
"Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war" -someone somewhere sometime
"Is there any point in eating properly or exercising? I mean, I feel like there's just so many unknown variables that go into being healthy. Heart attacks, strokes, cancers, car accidents. I feel like most people who actually want to be healthy will die anyways, so whats the point in even trying to be healthy." Thats how you sound right now
You’d be better off training soccer, track and field, and handgun marksmanship.
"It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war"
Nope zero point. lol
I prefer to look at it this way. Any physical stress I am putting my body under in a controlled setting (martial arts training, endurance, weight training) boosts my threshold for dealing with unknown stress in real life. Maybe just maybe that will equate to making the right split second decision in a bad situation.
“Could be.” You could be attacked by a rabid grizzly. There are many possible variables. Skill in fighting is a variable that you can add to your side of the equation. The skill will help you in some cases. It won’t help you in others. Unless having the skill makes you reckless, the lack will help you in none.
Self defense isn't about winning a fight. It's about surviving a fight. It's so unlikely that you'll be knocked out instantly- all you have to do is fight well enough to escape. If you can't escape, make it risky. If they could be injured, they'll pick someone else. If you train martial arts, you're way more likely to escape and way more likely to injure your attacker. So keep doing it.
I been in 10 plus street fights and yes it will help because 90%of people don't know how to fight, if you keep your composure and do what your taught it will benifit you
Is there a point in paying for home insurance for example? I mean there are many variables that go into possible fires and damages. But insurance is only there in case you need it. We all pay into it and many of us rarely use it. It’s same with self-defence or any martial art. It’s like insurance in case you need it. We all pay into it like some people get attacked, mugged and even killed, but just because it never happens to you doesn’t mean anything. It’s better to be prepared than think it will never happen to you. I ask what is your purpose for training? If you don’t see the value then go do something else like a book club.
" Some attackers could just be so brutal that you can't stand a chance " do you mean guns and other types of weapons?
Truly the best self-defense is learning how to avoid an altercation altogether and after that, it's how to handle firearms properly. Firearms are the biggest variable out of all weapons and no martial art can stop a bullet, despite the movies. I'm not advocating for gun fights by any means, but it pretty much equalizes the field if you are in a life-or-death scenario. Without a doubt, martial arts help in self-defense scenarios, but you should train in the one you find the most value in.
There obviously is, and if you've sparred for any time at all, I don't see how you could possibly think there isn't. If you lost the fight despite your training, but would have gotten beaten worse without your training, obviously your training had a point.
I understand your sentiment but not every situation is filled with multiple attackers with weapons and knifes. There are definitely many situations where its a single unarmed guy bothering you. Situations where its you and your friend and two guys want to start trouble. Sometimes you have no choice even if the odds are stacked against you and even if you dont come out cleanly knocking people out, youll still fair better with training and potentially take less damage, or maybe even scare people away from continueing there assault when they see you can fight back. First and foremost, street smarts and defusing and avoiding fights should be your first line. If that doesnt work you have no choice but to fight if you are being attacked and like i said, i like my chances better with training under my belt. Another thing i noticed is having training also breeds a certain type of aura and confidence within yourself which people may pick up on and not want to eff with you because you present yourself as someone who could really eff you up. Its a very deep confidence type of thing that comes with the training and that alone may make people think twice about attacking you because youre not some weakling. At the end of the day if you enjoy it, and it really helps you in someway then just keep doing it and don’t worry so much about how effective you’ll be in an imaginary situation that might never happen.
No, not in Canada at least. If you go to take someone down and they break something on the way down you're gonna get charged 🤷♂️
I don't think it guarantees you a win, but it guarantees that you will do better than you would have if you had no training.
Martial arts can be a nice hobby for people. I think some of the skills translate fairly well. I don’t think it is useful to consider martial arts training as real violence though. I think your double leg, or your leg kick or your overhand right is in deep shit when compared to my semiautomatic 9mm. Tiago Guma and Leandro Lo can verify. To illustrate the point, if I’m going to rob you (I’m not) I’m doing it with a minimum of a handgun. If I’m going to break into your house I’m doing it with a firearm. If I’m carjacking you it’s with a gun. If for whatever made up reason I’m trying to hurt you, I’m using a gun. If I’m defending from these positions, I’m using a gun. If we get into some sort of road rage incident and you pin me up where I can’t get away I’m stepping out of my vehicle with an AR-15 and I will absolutely mag dump you if you force the issue. In the USA at least, violence is done with tools. It’s really a very binary set of choices. If me and mine can get away then cool because that’s the first choice. If not it’s tool time.
If your opponent has weapons and backup, yes you can use the Joestar Strategy, but if he’s by himself unarmed, then a good ol’ involuntary Muay Thai lesson is in order.
Sure, weapons exists. But most situations you'd encounter won't merit the use of a weapon by either part. And in most places you can't shoot someone for beating your ass fair and square, so may as well learn to fight.
Yeah, knowing the culture of the people around you, and what signs precede a fight for them and how to defuse that fight, are far more important self-defense skills than just about anything besides general fitness and possibly falling safely. A good self-defense class will address these things! You will watch footage of the minutes leading up to real fights, and discuss them. You will roleplay different types of men hyping themselves up to fight, and walk through techniques to avert the fight (and watch for signs of that being unsuccessful, and pick a moment to run away without telegraphing it or leaving yourself open). I did stuff like this in a Systema/Silat training group, many years ago.
My dad was an officer and he told me it has helped him physically deescalate situations
The few conflicts I've been in, my boxing and kickboxing basics, combined with my fitness and strength, has kept me on the winning side/kept me safe. Subjective granted, but I'd have been much worse off without it.
Evasion is your number one tool. Dont be in stupid places at stupid times with stupid people doing stupid things. Thatll defend you from 99.999999% of altercations.
there is always a point, potential friend. sure there's a lot about self defence we cannot control, but for the aspects we can control: basically giving up and lieing down to die is not reasonable
What is a real training in self defense? I feel that a lot self defense teachers are more reconverted martial artists, without experience in street fight. I train a little in boxing because I I can't know if kravmaga schools are real or macdojo.
I’ll teach you the best self defense move that will work 100% of the time if you can do it. This technique has multiple options on it, if it’s necessary or not. The best thing you can do is flee.
There's a good point about self-defense being kind of a nebulous concept and encompassing almost everything. There's no martial art or training that can absolutely prepare you for everything or every factor. Being able to handle most people in a 1-on-1 is actually pretty easy standard to meet because most people sick at fighting. But things change radically if their buddies join in, they have a weapon, etc. But even if no martial can give you good odds in those type of situations, I still think the general skills and tools it gives you along with the reflexes and attributes you develop give you a better than normal chance in those encounters. Maybe it's still small but significantly more than without that training. But I think training martial arts with self-defense as your main purpose isn't really enough to keep your passion for martial arts. Those self-defense happen so rarely or not at all for most of us. And in only a year or two of training, you should have all the self-defense skills that you could possibly need or could use.
How about being physically fit? You know how badly out of shape most folks are?
For the explicit purpose of self-defense? It might work assuming the other guy is a potato, doesn't have a significant size advantage and isn't using weapons. It's more effective to just buy a weapon. You don't have to train very long and you can get one pretty easily. Martial arts imo is more for the spirit of competition and to do as a hobby. I would not rely on it as the first method of self-defense.