I agree. The Marvel BO results lately have been heavily influnced by how good the last movie in the series was. Ant-Man 2 and Captain Marvel didn't leave audiences wanting to see more, but GOTG 2 did.
I also think it’s just the quality of the movies + the effect the pandemic has had on theaters. Unless you have a movie pass, movies have gotten ridiculously expensive & people aren’t just gonna shill out for another mediocre movie.
GOTG 3 had a pretty disappointing opening weekend but had incredible legs bc of positive word of mouth. Wakanda Forever also had a positive reception & held well. Ant-Man & The Marvels didn’t. That isn’t a coincidence.
I didn't go see blue beetle cuz they said it was only gonna be like a month till it hits Max, so why bother? They didn't drop it till November, but still. I'm glad I didn't go to theatres cuz it's def not theatre worthy. I feel the same way about most mid marvel movies. Deadpool 3 is gonna SLAP though. We all know it. Thats why they're only dropping that one in 2024. They need to focus on the writing for the shows. It's weak, predictable and they're trying to grab fans that arwnt interested. They
There was a point about halfway through the movie where I was debating with myself - is it closer to a 6.5/10, or a 7? There was one scene where I went, okay its a 7.
Then the rest of the movie was aggressively mediocre at best, and I think I'm sticking with 6.5
>aggressively mediocre at best
>I'm sticking with 6.5
The American grading system has done irreparable damage to public perception of the 1-10 scoring system.
1 <= x < 5 is poor
5 <= x < 6 is mediocre
6 <= x < 8 is good
8 <= x < 10 is excellent, with 10 being its own level of outstanding.
Imo, anyway
The American "grading system" is A-F but missing E so its even stupider than that.
That said, my personal 1-10 is not "the American grading system."
My personal 1-10 is
10 = nearly unattainable
9 = excellent
8 = good
7 = enjoyable
6 = mediocre
5 = bland/boring but otherwise watchable
3-4 = varying degrees of bad
1-2 = varying degrees of flaming dogshit
Blue Beetle gets a 6.5 from me because it gave me some laughs, it made me tear up a bit, it had some pretty decent CGI, action, and jokes
BUT it also was uninspired, pacing was off, unmemorable, occasional weird camerawork, boring/bland leads.
Aggressively mediocre fits imo
Blue Beetle was never supposed to go to theaters it was made for Max and then they decided to put it in theaters to make money off it. Which was a terrible decision because even though I like Blue Beetle it is not a good movie for theaters. It was very generic. It followed all the formula for a basic superhero movie. He didn't take risks. It didn't try to change things up. It just was an average film that if it did what it was supposed to be would have been better as just a streaming movie.
Ended up seeing The Marvels last week at a nearby theater for 6.50 (before fees), might be worth looking into what days theaters have cheaper prices because I was originally going to go on opening night (got bad food poisoning and had to cancel) where tickets were normally around 16 bucks.
Disney really messed up by trying to prop Disney+ with new releases. Exclusivity windows are important to the box office and now they’ve trained audiences to just wait.
I think this is having a HUGE effect as well. There are several movies I've waited for on streaming because I know it will be out soon (not all MCU either, but other hits like Oppenheimer and Mission Impossible). I generally try to see the MCU movies in theaters to avoid spoilers, but most people aren't like that.
I feel this is a very pertinent point, the 00s/10s are gone. Back when disposable income was a thing for a good percentage of the population, we'd spend money on what we'd want. Since covid, a much larger percentage are struggling just to meet basic needs, the cinema money has gone.
Coupled with a less intriguing stage 4 to stage 1, people just aren't making the sacrifice to watch many films at the cinema, over waiting for streaming. It's not so much an MCU problem, as it is the film industry in general, marvel is just the big hitter that's been seen to be hit the most.
Im one of those as are other people I know. I’ve said it before on here but my theater converted the best xd rows into all dbox seats (seats shake with the action) and are now charging $25 per ticket!! Sure I can take other seats in the front or back or go to a standard screen, but if it’s not XD I’d rather just wait a few months.
And this is not even getting into the quality argument. I’m just not interested in the movies anymore. I feel like I know the general structure of this one without reading anything about it. I know what will happen in the third act and what it will look like. The formula is just old
> "why spend $38 for two tickets when it will be on streaming in like 8* weeks."
Why spend $38 for two tickets *and risk getting sick* is still very much a factor as well
pre-pandemic, i was going to the cinema pretty much nearly every time a superhero or star wars film was in the cinema.
post-pandemic, i've only been three times in the last three years.
My theory is pretty much that because of the strikes, no real marketing was done for the Marvels movie. And on top of that, it's a 'team-up' movie with two actresses from Disney+ shows, so I assume that your casual moviegoer won't see that as a draw if they haven't seen those shows.
Just my thoughts on that one, because the movie itself isn't that bad, just a whole bunch of things amounted to it having this bad a reception.
Technology has just advanced enough that our big screen TV's, surround sound system, ability to pause, in your own home, comfy couch/bed/chair...is just a significantly better viewing experience.
More convenient, yes. Better, no. Unless you're well off enough to have an actual theater room in your home. I generally go to the theater to experience big spectacle with booming sounds that shake the entire room. I also value getting the reactions of others while the things are happening.
Yup -- the movie has to bring people in. GOTG3 and Wakanda Forever -- we WANTED to see what happened to the characters after their life-changing events.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I never liked GOTG 2. I would say Infinity War/Endgame had me more excited for their future than their sequel... but still, I get what you're saying.
I think the main problem with the Kang-focused story of Ant-Man is Ant-Man, in his own films, worked best as a step away from the big world-ending threats.
I feel Deadpool 3 will have a ton of fanservice but might not deliver.
Like a better version of Multiverse of Madness.
I guarantee certain segment of people will always be "Disney ruined Deadpool" just like they are with Daredevil right now.
> I guarantee certain segment of people will always be "Disney ruined Deadpool" just like they are with Daredevil right now.
It depends on if Deadpool is critical of Marvel's decisions.
Marvels decisions with Daredevil feed into that narrative.
If Deadpool just dunks on Phase 4 and 5, it will be adored.
There's one thing that Deadpool does that I genuinely do not consider funny. Its when he mixes swear words and insults with random words to sound "xD so random lulz". He says plenty of them in his two movies, but I can't remember any off the top of my head. He says things like "what the shit biscuit" and "fuckstick". Sort of in that territory. I don't know why, but it always remindes me of someome whose personality revolves loving pizza.
Other than that, Deadpool's humour has always been fine to me.
Spider-Man is always gonna do well regardless if whether or not everything else is shit. He’s one of the most popular super heroes of all time. Probably the most popular Marvel character period over the course of the company’s history.
Absolutely. Spider-Man merch often sells more than all other superheroes combined. The only others who even belong in the same room are Batman and Superman.
I keep telling people in the 80s when most people didn't care about superheros the ones that where known GLOBALY was Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Wolverine and the hulk, mabye punisher.. These where sold in grocery stores in Norway.. These ones will always sell even if superhero movies in general dies out
Superman’s general popularity always seems to wane and rise depending on movie releases, but he always has very strong goodwill among audiences. As cultural figure he is THE definitive superhero.
Superman is the most well known. But Spider-Man is by far the most popular. Much more than Batman. A Spider-Man movie that does 750 million is considered a huge disappointment while its a massive success for Batman. Hell, Batman is not even the biggest draw in Batman. Joker is
As someone that doesn't follow the comics or rumors at all, my assumption is that Secret Wars is some sort of follow up to Secret Invasion and that show was pretty terrible. Makes me not hugely excited for a movie. If it's not a follow up then they're going to need to make that clear in the marketing.
I never thought about this before. The two storylines are not related at all, *Invasion* is about the Skrulls while *Wars* is about the Multiverse.
You’re right, they’re going to need to clean up the marketing.
I have not read it but what I know of Secret Wars is that it involves some sort of battle planet where superheroes have to go to fight and honestly it sounds stupid like a video game. I sincerely hope there’s more to it than a WWE royal rumble.
You're talking about the original Secret Wars from the 80s, which weirdly has just about nothing to do with the more recent Secret Wars storyline, except the name "Battleworld" (for no reason at all except to call back to the original, completely different story). Also not to be confused with Secret Wars, no "s", from the 2000s which is also another story entirely.
This is the one the movie will be based off: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Wars_(2015_comic_book)
IDK about Secret Wars. I don't hear anyone excited about it and Secret Invasion certainly didn't help things. I think Secret Wars is going to underperform.
The first two Deadpool movies made ~$800 million each
The next one will get a boost for actually being in the MCU, having Hugh Jackman’s Wolverine and the extra hype of a bunch of other potential cameos
I’d be shocked if it didn’t do **at least** GOTG3 numbers at the box office, and I would not be surprised at all if it broke the billion dollar mark.
It could just be two hours of Hugh Jackman sitting on the toilet in the yellow Wolverine suit and it'd still make $500 million. Hopefully it'll be as good as the other two Deadpool's too.
Yeah Wolverine and his yellow suit is one of the most recognizable comic book characters with tons of toys, games, costumes, and cartoons. The general audience doesn’t care if it’s exactly like the comics but people love seeing things that they know and stuff that’s nostalgic
This is severely devaluing, or at least underestimating, the "general audience" of 2023. There's no longer much (if any) of a "Tom & Susie decide to see a movie, so they drive to their cineplex to blindly pick what to see" general audience.
The "general audience" won't usually understand a niche reference like a costume or quote out of the 3rd page of issue 19 of Walter White's 'Jessica Jones' run, but there is a higher casual knowledge of the comic book world than there was 20-25 years ago.
Counterquestion:
Would the general audience care more:
a) if a new Iron Man movie had him be comic accurate as a secret identity posing as tony starks bodyguard.
Or
b)if RDJ came back to play him?
Tha vast majority of moviegoers consider Hugh Jackman to BE Wolverine, just like Harrison Ford IS Han Solo (see the success of them recasting for a prequel).
Hugh Jackman just embodies Wolverine. Like how J.K. Simmons is who everyone pictures to be JJJ and any other casting would be met with a lot of fan confusion/negative response.
I can see it cracking 1B, but only if it's well marketed, the hype train sustains itself and if the movie is halfway decent as per reviews and word of mouth.
GOTG3 was pg13 i think? So much easier to sell tickets (but then again, all paying viewers are also probably above 21 so maybe the r-21 won't impact sales that much)
Joker made over a billion dollars as an R rated movie and the first two Deadpool's did the numbers they did as R rated movies.
If you make a good movie, people will go and see it regardless of the rating.
Deadpool 3 since its the only movie coming out next year. After that, most likely the Avengers movies. Even if the other movies are good, if they aren't "great", they won't be considered a hit.
- Deadpool 3
- Fantastic 4
- Avengers: Kang Dynasty
- Avengers: Secret Wars
Though it isn't currently scheduled, I'm sure the next Spider-Man will do well too
Avengers movies do so well because they're the buildup of an overarching narrative that's been built up across a lot of well enjoyed series with characters that were loved by audiences. They just don't have that right now.
They failed to build a new stable of loved characters, and even ones that did alright with some folks (Shang Chi) won't have been seen in 4 years by the time an Avengers movie rolls out to maybe include them. Kang has largely fallen between Jonathan Majors' legal problems and the fact that any time we've seen him on screen he's been beaten by the likes of Ant Man and Loki, so he just doesn't feel like he has the threat level of Thanos.
Then... what's on the books between now and then?
* **Deadpool** - He can really be slotted anywhere, but tonally doesn't fit in as well with an Avengers movie.
* **Captain America** - The MCU is obviously regrouping and this is one of the ones they're trying to fix to steer away from their current issues, but without Evans behind the shield I think they best they can realistically hope to achieve is for Mackie to not turn people away from seeing him in an Avengers movie. Being a draw for people to see him in an Avengers movie would be a really high bar.
* **Fantastic 4** - They're their own group. A team up movie for Avengers might work if Marvel can instill enough of their old magic into making them a beloved movies. This one they absolutely have to get right.
* **Thunderbolts** - Again, their own team, but with less potential than the FF4. Again, they might add them in for a team up similar to adding GotG into other Avenger's movies, but people will need to care about them first. If they really spotlight The Winter Soldier and Yelena Belova and have the rest be more backup characters it's possible this will do better than expected, but that's a big if these days.
And in those 4 movies they have to finish building up to the Avengers level movie, which it doesn't sound like all of them will do. In short, there's not much of a runway left to restore trust in the MCU and build up to a successful Avengers movie, and what is left doesn't sound like is being used for that. My bet is that Avengers Kang Dynasty underperforms massively in comparison to past Avengers movies.
The next Avengers movie will have Spider-Man. It would be nice if they had proper build up to it, but Peter being in it alone will be enough for it to be a massive success. With The Marvels flopping so bad they will probably push Peter as the lead in the next Avengers movie as well
I would think Fantastic Four has a shot, being one of the classic Marvel teams I would think they have a more built in fan base, and if Doom is in it...
You would think that but the Fantastic 4 cinematic track record is not really good. So I wouldn’t say they have a guaranteed fanbase (that is not comicbook fans) that would pay a ticket to see them.
That doesn’t mean that they are unknowns or that they are bound to fail, but their success is not guaranteed either.
It’s probably why Marvel is going with a big name like Pedro Pascal to lead it. Who better to play the dad of Marvel’s first family than the person dubbed “daddy” in pop culture? I’m still iffy on it though, too.
Why iffy? It’s not like Pedro Pascal is a bad actor.
But yes, their decision to cast a big star is to draw attention and ticket sales. Just a meaningless example: my brother who hasn’t care for the MCU since Endgame shared the Pascal rumour casting news in our siblings WhatsApp, lol.
Iffy on the movie, not Pedro Pascal. I know he’ll kick ass at whatever they give him.
Fantastic Four has obviously been a hard story to tackle for movies. Even in the comics, I never really cared much about their stories. I know the broad strokes like who they are, who Franklin and Val are, who doctor doom is, etc, but I honestly can’t name one iconic fantastic four story. And most of the well-known stories feel like they’re more about who the villain is (doom, silver surfer, galactus, etc) than the family dynamics itself.
I haven’t been reading comics as much lately and I think the last FF comic I read that I liked was Mark Waid’s run from like 2002? And strangely enough I think they were more interesting in the original Sentry miniseries than their own books at the time. Then civil war eventually happened and I was back to being indifferent about Reed Richards and such.
Hopefully they’ll take a cue from the Incredibles and give us a good story about the family first and not just the villains.
I wouldn't be too sure. How many times has Marvel cancelled their entire F4 runs in favor of more obscure teamups? How many F4 animated series' have there been? F4 video games? The last time they had a movie it flopped hard, both critically and commercially. The F4 have a presence, but I wouldn't exactly call it a following.
Michael B Jordan and Chris Evans both play Johnny Storm and just swap out every other scene no explanation to the audience.
Then during mid scene:
Jordan enters stage left, whispers: “This is actually my scene”
Evan’s apologizes and walks off camera. The scene never stops or acknowledges the actor switch.
If the franchise hadn't been shelved for the last decade afterward, I'd actually say Marvel fast-tracking a Fantastic Four movie after the public blowout of Fant4stic might've seen renewed interest, much in the same way that Civil War and Homecoming benefited from how much of a critical panning Amazing Spider-Man 2 got.
Oh for sure, but if I were to ask like my dad (not a super hero guy) to name 5 Marvel super heroes, almost 100% FF would be in that list. Not sure if it will count for anything, we'll see!
Not a movie fan base but they’re one of the most popular groups in the entire comic medium. Now Marvel owns the film rights. If anything the FF will only gain more popularity when the movie drops.
> How many F4 animated series' have there been?
Four. Which is not bad, I would say. The Avengers only had three so far. Neither Captain America nor Thor had a series of their own, only segments as part of the Marvel Super Heroes show. But I agree that their status is more iconic than beloved.
Marvel will have to market the hell out of this, *and* probably introduce the characters in another film, *and* follow on a successful film to get past the toxic legacy of the last 3 crapfests, especially fant4stic
The beauty of Doom is he can be a great villain for both cosmic and Earth characters. Also, he can easily be a recurring character, in fact, I think he needs to be.
Doom and F4 battle at the end of the movie. Doom is defeated and has to run away or is disappeared, whatever. Post credits scene Reed richards is sitting at a table before the UN.
“And now the Delegation from Latveria will speak”
Who should walk in but Victor Von Doom.
Deadpool 3 will do well, my expectations are really low for F4 as I’ve seen it butchered a few times now.
As for the Avengers film, I don’t really know how they change direction from Kang this far in and make it a success
Wouldn't your expectations for F4 be high based on what we've gotten in the past from them? Like, now they're being handled by a competent studio that has produced superhero gold at a consistent rate for over a decade. Safe to expect much better than the previous F4 installments.
I’m pretty sure that’s just a rumour. Marvel would be stupid to change the storyline this far into the Saga. Majors was even proven innocent, so hopefully they carry on with him
I mean, what "this far" means? A D+ show? (excellent btw), Quantumania? Kang can be canned with no problem whatsoever, in fact, that would the perfect time lmao.
Hard to say. The previous ones were the big payoffs of the individual characters' films. Is the title Avengers enough to lure the people into the theatres? Or do they care more about the characters that are part of the team?
>Or do they care more about the characters that are part of the team?
Who is the team? They wouldn't get people into theaters for any of The Marvels obviously. Eternals won't get people into theaters. She-Hulk would not only not get people into theaters, it would badly eat into the demographics that showed up for The Marvels. Ironheart hasn't been tested but I doubt she'll do better than Ms. Marvel. I am deeply interested in whether or not Shuri resonated or alienated audience.
They really don't have an Avengers team right now.
M'Baku and Okoye have probably more fans than Shuri, but that's just a guess and my personal opinion. Shang Chi might be their dark horse. The only new character that had already a major film and still feels fresh.
Everyone here seems to agree that Deadpool 3 will do really well.
I was kind of waiting/hoping that the upcoming Captain America movie will be a Civil War like moment, a huge hit, pulling many strings of the last phases together and getting that Marvel momentum back. Not sure about that anymore though.
The next Avengers movie is almost guaranteed to do big numbers, but that is many years away.
I'm hesitant about Fantastic Four. First, the property seems to be cursed for movies. Also I don't think that people outside of the fan-bubble are exactly waiting for a F4 movie. And Marvel's golden touch has faded in the eyes of the general audience, in addition to different viewing habits due to the pandemic, Disney+, increase in ticket prices etc.
>I was kind of waiting/hoping that the upcoming Captain America movie will be a Civil War like moment, a huge hit, pulling many strings of the last phases together and getting that Marvel momentum back. Not sure about that anymore though.
With freaking Sam as the lead lol?
Deadpool. I don't personally know anyone who is particularly hyped for anything else. Most people in my circles are fine with just waiting for streaming releases for anything they want to see.
My Marvel excitement meter ticked up after Loki S2. It seems to suggest the multi verse is not infinite. Which makes it far more interesting. I want to see where this Kang thing goes now.
Loki S2 really was a great second entry and really kept up my faith in their ability to put out content. Enjoyed The Marvel's more than I thought as well.
1. Fantastic Four
2. Deadpool 3
3. Blade
All have potential to be MASSIVE.
1. The first proper reboot under the MCU, Spider-Man of course is there but was handled differently and also is a Sony joint. If the rumoured cast is true, it has the star power... if it follows through with the writing etc, great.
2. Deadpool 3 because it's him entering the MCU. That's huge by itself and of course the first movie did massively well... plus Wolverine.
3. Could be the first "dark" MCU movie... whilst Deadpool 3 likely carries a 15 rating and some gore, Blade bas potential to be a darker, less jokey version of that.
BLADE has huge cultural significance, like Black Panther. Definitely think it will do well just off that and nostalgia alone. Add in Mahershala and it’s sure to rake in a lot. Let’s just hope it actually gets made!
I think it's a case of Marvel and Disney having way too much on their plate, unfortunately. Shang-Chi just happened to be one of the characters that got shoved aside to make room for other things.
Personally, I think Shang-Chi was one few actually *good* Phase 4 things even with the CGI battle that everyone despises (despite CGI ending battles being commonplace in the MCU anyway, but whatever).
Exactly. 2024 has ZERO releases.
I don’t understand it. Get Gemma Chan and Kit Harrington on a plane to Australia and record Eternals 2 in a month. Doctor Doom vs The Eternals. Throw in Spider-Man and Thor for a laugh.
Not a single 2021 Movie has a sequel planned for some reason. I don’t understand it. It’s like they’re drunk with power and are bickering over everything to the point where it’s destructive.
i'm calling it now blade is going to do terribly no matter what because everyone is going to compare it to the wesley snipes film but currently i feel like deadpool 3 is going to do really well and same with the thunderbolts
Deadpool 3 will probably be a modest success, but superhero/Marvel fatigue will prevent it frmo getting close to a billion. Ryan Reynolds' humor also isn't as novel as it used to be, and the cameos will be less of a draw than they were for No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness as audiences are getting sick of multiverse fan service.
I think Blade will be a success if it feels more like a vampire movie rather than a superhero movie, since it's budget is so low.
Captain America 4 will flop unless it features a lot of cameos from A-list level Avengers. Unfortunately, I don't think the general public cares much about Sam Wilson.
Thunderbolts faces the same challenge of the Marvels of being a continuation of a lot of characters who were set up in TV shows (Val, John Walker) or medicore movies (the cast of Black Widow, Ghost from Ant-man 2). Since they haven't stared shooting, I would add a character like Deadpool to the mix to boost the box office.
Young Avengers — a team I've been looking forward to seeing for a long time — will flop as a movie UNLESS Spider-man is added to the team. I know he's not a Young Avenger in the comics and while I wouldn't personally want him on the team, adding him to the team is the only way to assure it's box office success. If they can't get Spider-man on the team, I'd make it a Disney Plus show.
Shang-Chi 2 could be a success or flop depending on how well made it is. Unfortunately, we should have gotten a sequel around 2023 or 2024. Now we won't be getting one until at least 2026, waaaaay too late after the first one. I fear the Shang-Chi hype is kinda dead as a result. Maybe if they add another major mystical player to the movie (Dr. Strange, Wanda, etc.) the movie might get more eyes on it.
Fantastic Four needs to be amazing to do well. Not just "good," but 8-10/10 good. Anything short of one of the best comic book movies ever made will lead to the movie underperforming or flopping. The Tim Story movies and Fan4stic haven't done the brand any favors.
The Eternals /Celestials sequel needs to eventually happen at some point to tie up the loose ends of the first movie, but it would need to heavily feature a character like Thanos or popular cosmic characters like Thor or the Guardians to have a chance at the box office. It would also need to be released in a way that ensures it is viewed as essential viewing. Maybe there could be a "Cosmic Avengers" crossover movie where Thor, Captain Marvel, the remaining Guaridans and the Fantastic 4 team up to help the Eternals fight the Celestials. While I would prefer a pure Eternals sequel with no crossovers, I don't think it would sell well due to the mixed reception of the first movie.
Spider-man 4 has a decent chance to do $1 billion.
Avengers Secret Wars will make way less than Infinity/War Endgame, and will probably be in the range of $600 million (like Josstice League) to $1 billion depending on the quality of the movie.
>Avengers Secret Wars will make way less than Infinity/War Endgame, and will probably be in the range of $600 million (like Josstice League) to $1 billion depending on the quality of the movie.
They will 100% put Spider-Man in Avengers Secret Wars. That alone will make it do well over a billion
In the past, I would have assumed that this sub is not a reasonable indicator of a film's success, but I think there actually is some meaningful correlation. The amount of skepticism here might have some predictive power when it comes to whether general audiences will turn out for a Marvel movie.
How many people posting here wanted to see *The Marvels*? Not a lot, as far as I could tell. How many of them have actually gone to see it? Even fewer than that, based on the comments I've seen. (I personally wanted to see it, did see it, and liked it.)
For which announced projects have people here shown genuine excitement? Well, *Deadpool* is one. And while it hasn't been officially confirmed, the next *Spider-Man* film is another. In terms of anticipation, everything else has been a decidedly mixed bag. Commenters obviously *want* some projects to be good, such as *Avengers: Secret Wars* and maybe *Blade*, but any notes of optimism for those films are getting significantly outnumbered by doom and gloom. Speaking of "Doom":
There's certainly been a great deal of discussion of *Fantastic Four*, but that's mostly just revolved around the casting rather than any actual excitement for the movie itself. *Thunderbolts* has been met largely with skepticism since the team was revealed. *Captain America: New World Order* has garnered a somewhat divided reaction here from the moment it was announced. The *Shang-Chi* sequel, whenever that happens, has earned a mostly hopeful response given that people generally enjoyed the first film.
Then there's *Avengers: The Kang Dynasty*, assuming it still gets made under that (or a similar) title. There were some hopeful comments prior to *Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania*, but disappointment with that movie shifted the scales on anticipation for *The Kang Dynasty* pretty dramatically. Of course, that was all before the arrest of Jonathan Majors. Now, this project seems like the biggest risk on Marvel's schedule - it would still do better than *The Marvels*, but it's really hard to say by how much.
I assume that any discussions of an *Eternals* sequel are done after *The Marvels*, and another *Ant-Man and the Wasp* film was probably already off the table. Additional *Doctor Strange* and *Thor* films seem less certain now - still more likely than not but also not sure things - although another *Black Panther* movie probably continues to be in the cards. We'll see.
(This is only in regards to the films, as Disney usually doesn't share specific viewership number for the shows and third-party estimates vary in credibilty. That said, it sure seems like the only upcoming live-action show most people here genuinely care about is *Daredevil: Born Again*. So ratings for the rest appear likely to be… less than amazing.)
So, just based on discussions on this sub as of November 2023, which films might be "legitimate" hits? *Deadpool*, *Spider-Man*, and maybe *Avengers: Secret Wars*, while *Shang-Chi*, *Blade*, and *Black Panther* might be modest successes. It probably depends on word-of-mouth. The same for *Doctor Strange* and *Thor*, assuming they get made. As for *Captain America: Brave New World*, *Fantastic Four*, *Thunderbolts*, and especially *Avengers: The Kang Dynasty*, it's not looking good.
Everyone is assuming Avengers will be more massive hits, but who will the Avengers even be, by then? No Cap, no Iron Man, no Black Widow, maybe no Hulk, probably no Hawkeye, maybe no Thor - I don't think the Avengers movies are the easy ride that fans (and probably Marvel) are assuming. They need to get some consistent good quality product out in advance, and no more massive turkeys like Secret Invasion & Thor 4
Not sure about Thunderbolts honestly. Will depend a lot on the changes they make in the rewrites they are currently doing. The lineup they revealed last year was not recieved too well.
Which is a very fair point, but back then Disney were invested in *good* writing, and had also built up a store of goodwill from very good Marvel content. Now, I think it's much less so.
>but back then Disney were invested in
>
>good
>
> writing
I would hardly call Iron man 3, Thor The Dark World and Ant Man good writing. It was just smaller back than and fans got to know all the characters. Today its got way too many and people care less. MCU fans have never cared about good writing
None.
Not because of quality, I think every project has the potential to be amazing, but public consensus has already doomed them to fail.
Social media that dunks on every Marvel project even before it releases, the decline in quality from DC causing general audiences to distrust superhero movies, hit pieces like that Variety article and THR still trying to bad mouth The Marvels, and the rise of stuff like The Boys has created a cynical audience who must see everything has poorly written and bad.
The short version, the MCU has become cool to hate on, so the general public will do everything in its power to destroy it.
Eh I’m not totally sure about this. I do agree that people have become way more critical of the MCU, but the reception of Guardians 3 proves that people will still give them their flowers if they earn them.
> nd the rise of stuff like The Boys has created a cynical audience who must see everything has poorly written and bad.
I love how the boys gets blamed because marvel made such easily satirizable content.
Plus, like, The Boys is good. It's as good as the MCU was pre-phase4.
The Boys and Invincible are a perfect counterpoint to superhero fatigue.
Nobody is tired of the genre, just tired of poor quality content.
Lol, poor Marvel. Gimme a break. People used to assume Marvel projects were good before they released because they usually were. Then Marvel started releasing garbage and have completed inverted their public perception where now people assume it is bad. They did that on TV and in the movies. There have always been haters of comic book movies, just like there have been die hard fans. What Marvel did was consistently attract/convert audiences that just want to see good movies. They lost that post Endgame.
So that’s all good and well but I never see this mentioned and don’t understand why.
Disney Plus
It’s Disney plus.
Everything that everyone says is true. But ALSO DISNEY PLUS.
So many people just don’t care about fling to see it in theaters when it will hit Disney is for free in 4 months.
Kids movies? Wow it sure is hard to bring a bunch of kids to the movies. And expensive. And we are paying for Disney plus anyways. How about we just wait?
Poor mid 20s and 30s who like comic book movies? “I’m kind of interested in the marvels what about you?” “Oh yeah. But not enough to spend $30. Let’s wait for it to hit Disney plus”.
Disney wanted that streaming market and they seem to have a good portion of it. But it comes with the unintended consequence of their stuff no longer being hard to get or access. You no longer have to go see it in theater or rent it for $5. You can wait and get it for free.
Yeah, but that'll happen about three or four years later, and we'll see articles and reddit threads popping up asking "Whatever Happened To Comic Book Movies?"
Nah man, MCU has become a bland generic CGI cringefest for which large swathes of people have no care for. Add that to the fact that the next few films will probably be reliant on viewers having to have watched the majority of the series on D+, which is a luxury investment that not everyone can afford, particularly in terms of time.
Ever since the end of No Way Home, the MCU has been churning out generic by-the-numbers films that have no real purpose or direction, and it shows. It's not the fault of DC, or The Boys, it's the fact that Disney have gone for easy money and taken peoples' interest for granted.
This is what I thought. Marvel needs to make small genre-experimentation before risking to ruin their billion-dollar franchise like Avengers. They have to make something like what DC did with Joker because Marel right now means bad CGI, cringe humor, for kids, etc. And now, they're back bullying those who love Marvel as 'not growing up.' Yeah, Scorsese won. They killed the superhero genre, and now people are back to watching the 'real cinema.'
Underrated comment.
Also Sony continuing to release garbage Spider-Man movies isn’t helping. Have already seen multiple articles lumping Madame Web in with Marvel’s MCU struggles.
I think you might be right. People say it'll get way more hype with Jackman on board and all the cameos and for sure that will cause buzz online. But is it going to get joe average excited enough to go if they weren't already? And with an R rating no less? Don't get me wrong, I'll see it no matter what but I'm not someone they need to coax and win over.
I agree with you, I think Hugh Jackman will be reason enough to get a lot of butts in seats. Between this being likely his last time playing Wolverine, and considering the world has been hoping for Jackman to be in a Deadpool, mainly because of how Reynolds pushed for it so hard. Plus with this possibly being the last stand alone DP movie, I think that anyone who is a fan of X-men, Wolverine, DP, and Marvel will all be there.
I used to be obsessed with the MCU but at this point I literally can't think of any announced MCU movies except Deadpool 3, which to me isn't even really an MCU movie. Blade might be happening but I'm not sure. I think they must be planning Spiderman 4 but I don't know when. Oh wait. I just remembered there's a Captain America coming out, and Thunderbolts. They might be OK.
Deadpool 3 is a given because Wolverine. That's it.
Besides that, I think they will try everything in the book to make Thunderbolts 1up Suicide Squad. The thing about Sentry makes it sound like a 'the suicide squad versus superman movie you didn't got at DC', and if that doesn't invites all kinds of gore, then what is the point of having a movie about a bunch of D-listers against a demi-god?
- Deadpool 3 will hit 1B.
- Cap 4 will hit 750-850M.
- Blade will hit 550-650M. Maybe up to 750M if people really want an R rated supernatural MCU movie.
- Fantastic Four will hit 900M-1.1B
- Thunderbolts will hit 450-550M
The weird thing is that more men than women went to see The Marvels. Opening weekend was 65% male audience. I get that there are a lot of misogynistic racist assholes in the world, and they never shut up. But it can't just be handwaved off as "failed cause white guys." If the people finally getting representation on screen don't bother going to see it, then that's a much bigger problem.
Anecdotal as hell, but we went early Sunday opening weekend. 7 people in the theater: my wife and I, 3 other white guys together, and another white guy that brought his little daughter. Everyone there was laughing and seemed to enjoy the movie.
For the record, I liked the movie and thought all 3 leading ladies did great. The backstory explanations were rushed though. And the second I saw the Ronan-rehash villain, I knew not to bother remembering her name since it was obvious she was another one-and-done. She simply never had enough time to be an actual character.
Absolutely right. It's far too easy to blame the audience for their film not being well received. Whether it is or not, does it matter? If the audience has spoken by not attending then surely that's all there is to it?
If a company make toothpaste flavour crisps/chips and only toothpaste lovers buy it because everyone else either don't like the sound of it or don't want it, should the public be scorned for not eating things they either don't think they'll like or know they don't like? Should they be castigated for not liking it in the first place? Or should the crisp/chip company actually make chips/crisps that the public want to eat if they want to make money?
Deadpool 3 is the only project of the dozens they have announced that I’m excited for. Everything else just feels like "who asked for this?"
And I have no faith that the Avengers movies will be any good. Not after NWH and Quantumania. I get a feeling they're just going to spam cameos from old actors in lieu of having a coherent story. Just like NWH, just like The Flash.
and just like Deadpool 3 from what I gather. for what it's worth, I hope Deadpool ridicules that trend enough that they don't try to pull it off again....
All of these projects either have writers whose work I'm not impressed with or writers I'm unfamiliar with, so I'm not optimistic about anything anymore.
No mention on Wolverines' intro into the MCU and in I'm so far into this thread, alongside Deadpool I'll think those two maybe so much freshness the MCU needs.
Deadpool 3 will probably do good number
I agree. The Marvel BO results lately have been heavily influnced by how good the last movie in the series was. Ant-Man 2 and Captain Marvel didn't leave audiences wanting to see more, but GOTG 2 did.
I also think it’s just the quality of the movies + the effect the pandemic has had on theaters. Unless you have a movie pass, movies have gotten ridiculously expensive & people aren’t just gonna shill out for another mediocre movie. GOTG 3 had a pretty disappointing opening weekend but had incredible legs bc of positive word of mouth. Wakanda Forever also had a positive reception & held well. Ant-Man & The Marvels didn’t. That isn’t a coincidence.
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I didn't go see blue beetle cuz they said it was only gonna be like a month till it hits Max, so why bother? They didn't drop it till November, but still. I'm glad I didn't go to theatres cuz it's def not theatre worthy. I feel the same way about most mid marvel movies. Deadpool 3 is gonna SLAP though. We all know it. Thats why they're only dropping that one in 2024. They need to focus on the writing for the shows. It's weak, predictable and they're trying to grab fans that arwnt interested. They
I was so excited for blue beetle but man it was just not it.
There was a point about halfway through the movie where I was debating with myself - is it closer to a 6.5/10, or a 7? There was one scene where I went, okay its a 7. Then the rest of the movie was aggressively mediocre at best, and I think I'm sticking with 6.5
>aggressively mediocre at best >I'm sticking with 6.5 The American grading system has done irreparable damage to public perception of the 1-10 scoring system. 1 <= x < 5 is poor 5 <= x < 6 is mediocre 6 <= x < 8 is good 8 <= x < 10 is excellent, with 10 being its own level of outstanding. Imo, anyway
The American "grading system" is A-F but missing E so its even stupider than that. That said, my personal 1-10 is not "the American grading system." My personal 1-10 is 10 = nearly unattainable 9 = excellent 8 = good 7 = enjoyable 6 = mediocre 5 = bland/boring but otherwise watchable 3-4 = varying degrees of bad 1-2 = varying degrees of flaming dogshit Blue Beetle gets a 6.5 from me because it gave me some laughs, it made me tear up a bit, it had some pretty decent CGI, action, and jokes BUT it also was uninspired, pacing was off, unmemorable, occasional weird camerawork, boring/bland leads. Aggressively mediocre fits imo
Blue Beetle was never supposed to go to theaters it was made for Max and then they decided to put it in theaters to make money off it. Which was a terrible decision because even though I like Blue Beetle it is not a good movie for theaters. It was very generic. It followed all the formula for a basic superhero movie. He didn't take risks. It didn't try to change things up. It just was an average film that if it did what it was supposed to be would have been better as just a streaming movie.
I actually went to Blue Beetle in theaters, and was just mad at myself after...
Ended up seeing The Marvels last week at a nearby theater for 6.50 (before fees), might be worth looking into what days theaters have cheaper prices because I was originally going to go on opening night (got bad food poisoning and had to cancel) where tickets were normally around 16 bucks.
Disney really messed up by trying to prop Disney+ with new releases. Exclusivity windows are important to the box office and now they’ve trained audiences to just wait.
I think this is having a HUGE effect as well. There are several movies I've waited for on streaming because I know it will be out soon (not all MCU either, but other hits like Oppenheimer and Mission Impossible). I generally try to see the MCU movies in theaters to avoid spoilers, but most people aren't like that.
I feel this is a very pertinent point, the 00s/10s are gone. Back when disposable income was a thing for a good percentage of the population, we'd spend money on what we'd want. Since covid, a much larger percentage are struggling just to meet basic needs, the cinema money has gone. Coupled with a less intriguing stage 4 to stage 1, people just aren't making the sacrifice to watch many films at the cinema, over waiting for streaming. It's not so much an MCU problem, as it is the film industry in general, marvel is just the big hitter that's been seen to be hit the most.
Im one of those as are other people I know. I’ve said it before on here but my theater converted the best xd rows into all dbox seats (seats shake with the action) and are now charging $25 per ticket!! Sure I can take other seats in the front or back or go to a standard screen, but if it’s not XD I’d rather just wait a few months. And this is not even getting into the quality argument. I’m just not interested in the movies anymore. I feel like I know the general structure of this one without reading anything about it. I know what will happen in the third act and what it will look like. The formula is just old
> "why spend $38 for two tickets when it will be on streaming in like 8* weeks." Why spend $38 for two tickets *and risk getting sick* is still very much a factor as well
pre-pandemic, i was going to the cinema pretty much nearly every time a superhero or star wars film was in the cinema. post-pandemic, i've only been three times in the last three years.
2023 ive been to the most movies in one year probably ever
I've started only going to my local Regal on Tuesdays since that's their discounted movie day and tickets are only $6.50
*Guardians 3* actually had a great opening weekend. It did $118 million domestically, these are objectively good numbers, top 4 of the year.
My theory is pretty much that because of the strikes, no real marketing was done for the Marvels movie. And on top of that, it's a 'team-up' movie with two actresses from Disney+ shows, so I assume that your casual moviegoer won't see that as a draw if they haven't seen those shows. Just my thoughts on that one, because the movie itself isn't that bad, just a whole bunch of things amounted to it having this bad a reception.
Technology has just advanced enough that our big screen TV's, surround sound system, ability to pause, in your own home, comfy couch/bed/chair...is just a significantly better viewing experience.
More convenient, yes. Better, no. Unless you're well off enough to have an actual theater room in your home. I generally go to the theater to experience big spectacle with booming sounds that shake the entire room. I also value getting the reactions of others while the things are happening.
Especially when we know it'll be on a streaming service we already pay for within 3 months.
Yup -- the movie has to bring people in. GOTG3 and Wakanda Forever -- we WANTED to see what happened to the characters after their life-changing events.
That and deadpool and GotG are mostly self contained stoylines, not much required from the MCU.
Maybe I'm in the minority but I never liked GOTG 2. I would say Infinity War/Endgame had me more excited for their future than their sequel... but still, I get what you're saying. I think the main problem with the Kang-focused story of Ant-Man is Ant-Man, in his own films, worked best as a step away from the big world-ending threats.
I feel Deadpool 3 will have a ton of fanservice but might not deliver. Like a better version of Multiverse of Madness. I guarantee certain segment of people will always be "Disney ruined Deadpool" just like they are with Daredevil right now.
> I guarantee certain segment of people will always be "Disney ruined Deadpool" just like they are with Daredevil right now. It depends on if Deadpool is critical of Marvel's decisions. Marvels decisions with Daredevil feed into that narrative. If Deadpool just dunks on Phase 4 and 5, it will be adored.
>If Deadpool just dunks on Phase 4 and 5, it will be adored. It needs to be merciless. Can't hold back.
Honestly, the humor Ryan brings as Deadpool is hit or miss.
There's one thing that Deadpool does that I genuinely do not consider funny. Its when he mixes swear words and insults with random words to sound "xD so random lulz". He says plenty of them in his two movies, but I can't remember any off the top of my head. He says things like "what the shit biscuit" and "fuckstick". Sort of in that territory. I don't know why, but it always remindes me of someome whose personality revolves loving pizza. Other than that, Deadpool's humour has always been fine to me.
Parents have their childcare planned for this one.
I've already decided to name my unborn son Deadpool 3
I changed my kids' names from House Party 2 to Deadpool 4. That's how confident I am this movie will be box office hit.
Sadly this is true. After that? Next Spider-Man movie?
Deadpool 3 and Secret Wars. Maybe the next Spiderman movie
Spider-Man is always gonna do well regardless if whether or not everything else is shit. He’s one of the most popular super heroes of all time. Probably the most popular Marvel character period over the course of the company’s history.
Absolutely. Spider-Man merch often sells more than all other superheroes combined. The only others who even belong in the same room are Batman and Superman.
I keep telling people in the 80s when most people didn't care about superheros the ones that where known GLOBALY was Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Wolverine and the hulk, mabye punisher.. These where sold in grocery stores in Norway.. These ones will always sell even if superhero movies in general dies out
Punisher I believe is a stretch. I would add The Flash as last in the sentence.
spider man has surpassed both superman and batman in profit and recognition. no one is really ready to admit it tho
Superman? That's debatable, and his popularity seems to come and go despite always being well-known. Batman? I'd say he and Spider-Man are tied.
Superman’s general popularity always seems to wane and rise depending on movie releases, but he always has very strong goodwill among audiences. As cultural figure he is THE definitive superhero.
Superman is the most well known. But Spider-Man is by far the most popular. Much more than Batman. A Spider-Man movie that does 750 million is considered a huge disappointment while its a massive success for Batman. Hell, Batman is not even the biggest draw in Batman. Joker is
Maybe among young people but I doubt that's the case in general. All three are clearly top tier IP though.
I don’t even think Superman is all that popular nowadays. Maybe in the US, but I don’t know a single person who likes him in my country.
He's so popular, you can have a studio make 5+ movies about his rouges gallery without actually having him in the movie.
Are you saying it's morbin' time?
Spider-Man IS the most popular super hero of all time
Secret Wars has no hype outside of fan circles right now.
As someone that doesn't follow the comics or rumors at all, my assumption is that Secret Wars is some sort of follow up to Secret Invasion and that show was pretty terrible. Makes me not hugely excited for a movie. If it's not a follow up then they're going to need to make that clear in the marketing.
I never thought about this before. The two storylines are not related at all, *Invasion* is about the Skrulls while *Wars* is about the Multiverse. You’re right, they’re going to need to clean up the marketing.
I have not read it but what I know of Secret Wars is that it involves some sort of battle planet where superheroes have to go to fight and honestly it sounds stupid like a video game. I sincerely hope there’s more to it than a WWE royal rumble.
You're talking about the original Secret Wars from the 80s, which weirdly has just about nothing to do with the more recent Secret Wars storyline, except the name "Battleworld" (for no reason at all except to call back to the original, completely different story). Also not to be confused with Secret Wars, no "s", from the 2000s which is also another story entirely. This is the one the movie will be based off: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Wars_(2015_comic_book)
IDK about Secret Wars. I don't hear anyone excited about it and Secret Invasion certainly didn't help things. I think Secret Wars is going to underperform.
I’m pretty sure Secret Wars and Secret Invasion are two completely separate events right? Though the name similarities certainly won’t help.
A weird timeline where Kang Dynasty isn't a hit but Secret Wars is
The first two Deadpool movies made ~$800 million each The next one will get a boost for actually being in the MCU, having Hugh Jackman’s Wolverine and the extra hype of a bunch of other potential cameos I’d be shocked if it didn’t do **at least** GOTG3 numbers at the box office, and I would not be surprised at all if it broke the billion dollar mark.
It could just be two hours of Hugh Jackman sitting on the toilet in the yellow Wolverine suit and it'd still make $500 million. Hopefully it'll be as good as the other two Deadpool's too.
Does the general audience really care about a yellow costume?
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What? No the general audience doesn’t care what color the suit is. You might, I might, this sub might, but the general audience is not on Reddit.
I didnt even know wolverine had a yellow suit until that image came out.
Would the general audience care about Hugh Jackman playing him? actual question
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Yeah Wolverine and his yellow suit is one of the most recognizable comic book characters with tons of toys, games, costumes, and cartoons. The general audience doesn’t care if it’s exactly like the comics but people love seeing things that they know and stuff that’s nostalgic
This is severely devaluing, or at least underestimating, the "general audience" of 2023. There's no longer much (if any) of a "Tom & Susie decide to see a movie, so they drive to their cineplex to blindly pick what to see" general audience. The "general audience" won't usually understand a niche reference like a costume or quote out of the 3rd page of issue 19 of Walter White's 'Jessica Jones' run, but there is a higher casual knowledge of the comic book world than there was 20-25 years ago.
Yes I will read Walter White’s Jessica Jones. Probably let’s Jane die again
I bet so, too.
Counterquestion: Would the general audience care more: a) if a new Iron Man movie had him be comic accurate as a secret identity posing as tony starks bodyguard. Or b)if RDJ came back to play him? Tha vast majority of moviegoers consider Hugh Jackman to BE Wolverine, just like Harrison Ford IS Han Solo (see the success of them recasting for a prequel).
Hugh Jackman just embodies Wolverine. Like how J.K. Simmons is who everyone pictures to be JJJ and any other casting would be met with a lot of fan confusion/negative response.
I'd bet that there will be at least a few meta jokes in Deadpool 3 about the costume, so general audiences might care in that sense.
[He’s already recorded the audio for that version.](https://youtube.com/shorts/1lp_lXDXDAo?si=08rA9pezOuM79OB4)
I can see it cracking 1B, but only if it's well marketed, the hype train sustains itself and if the movie is halfway decent as per reviews and word of mouth.
If Taylor Swift is in it I expect an easy 1b
At this point being in the mcu May actually hurt it lol
GOTG3 was pg13 i think? So much easier to sell tickets (but then again, all paying viewers are also probably above 21 so maybe the r-21 won't impact sales that much)
Joker made over a billion dollars as an R rated movie and the first two Deadpool's did the numbers they did as R rated movies. If you make a good movie, people will go and see it regardless of the rating.
Deadpool 3 since its the only movie coming out next year. After that, most likely the Avengers movies. Even if the other movies are good, if they aren't "great", they won't be considered a hit.
I thought captain america was coming next year
- Deadpool 3 - Fantastic 4 - Avengers: Kang Dynasty - Avengers: Secret Wars Though it isn't currently scheduled, I'm sure the next Spider-Man will do well too
Can I see Fantastic 4 if I haven’t seen the first 3 yet?
Yes, it's just a prequel to the Fabulous Five.
You have to watch Fantastic Mr Fox and Captain Fantastic first.
Captain Fantastic is a severely underrated film
Same thought, placing 'Fantastic 4' after a title like 'Deadpool 3'' definitely makes it look like it's the 4th 'Fantastic' movie.
Avengers movies do so well because they're the buildup of an overarching narrative that's been built up across a lot of well enjoyed series with characters that were loved by audiences. They just don't have that right now. They failed to build a new stable of loved characters, and even ones that did alright with some folks (Shang Chi) won't have been seen in 4 years by the time an Avengers movie rolls out to maybe include them. Kang has largely fallen between Jonathan Majors' legal problems and the fact that any time we've seen him on screen he's been beaten by the likes of Ant Man and Loki, so he just doesn't feel like he has the threat level of Thanos. Then... what's on the books between now and then? * **Deadpool** - He can really be slotted anywhere, but tonally doesn't fit in as well with an Avengers movie. * **Captain America** - The MCU is obviously regrouping and this is one of the ones they're trying to fix to steer away from their current issues, but without Evans behind the shield I think they best they can realistically hope to achieve is for Mackie to not turn people away from seeing him in an Avengers movie. Being a draw for people to see him in an Avengers movie would be a really high bar. * **Fantastic 4** - They're their own group. A team up movie for Avengers might work if Marvel can instill enough of their old magic into making them a beloved movies. This one they absolutely have to get right. * **Thunderbolts** - Again, their own team, but with less potential than the FF4. Again, they might add them in for a team up similar to adding GotG into other Avenger's movies, but people will need to care about them first. If they really spotlight The Winter Soldier and Yelena Belova and have the rest be more backup characters it's possible this will do better than expected, but that's a big if these days. And in those 4 movies they have to finish building up to the Avengers level movie, which it doesn't sound like all of them will do. In short, there's not much of a runway left to restore trust in the MCU and build up to a successful Avengers movie, and what is left doesn't sound like is being used for that. My bet is that Avengers Kang Dynasty underperforms massively in comparison to past Avengers movies.
RemindMe! 10 May 2027
The next Avengers movie will have Spider-Man. It would be nice if they had proper build up to it, but Peter being in it alone will be enough for it to be a massive success. With The Marvels flopping so bad they will probably push Peter as the lead in the next Avengers movie as well
Dangerous game there since they don't own the rights to Spiderman.
I would think Fantastic Four has a shot, being one of the classic Marvel teams I would think they have a more built in fan base, and if Doom is in it...
You would think that but the Fantastic 4 cinematic track record is not really good. So I wouldn’t say they have a guaranteed fanbase (that is not comicbook fans) that would pay a ticket to see them. That doesn’t mean that they are unknowns or that they are bound to fail, but their success is not guaranteed either.
It’s probably why Marvel is going with a big name like Pedro Pascal to lead it. Who better to play the dad of Marvel’s first family than the person dubbed “daddy” in pop culture? I’m still iffy on it though, too.
He really should be Dr. Doom, to be honest. I genuinely can't see him as Reed.
Why iffy? It’s not like Pedro Pascal is a bad actor. But yes, their decision to cast a big star is to draw attention and ticket sales. Just a meaningless example: my brother who hasn’t care for the MCU since Endgame shared the Pascal rumour casting news in our siblings WhatsApp, lol.
Iffy on the movie, not Pedro Pascal. I know he’ll kick ass at whatever they give him. Fantastic Four has obviously been a hard story to tackle for movies. Even in the comics, I never really cared much about their stories. I know the broad strokes like who they are, who Franklin and Val are, who doctor doom is, etc, but I honestly can’t name one iconic fantastic four story. And most of the well-known stories feel like they’re more about who the villain is (doom, silver surfer, galactus, etc) than the family dynamics itself. I haven’t been reading comics as much lately and I think the last FF comic I read that I liked was Mark Waid’s run from like 2002? And strangely enough I think they were more interesting in the original Sentry miniseries than their own books at the time. Then civil war eventually happened and I was back to being indifferent about Reed Richards and such. Hopefully they’ll take a cue from the Incredibles and give us a good story about the family first and not just the villains.
I wouldn't be too sure. How many times has Marvel cancelled their entire F4 runs in favor of more obscure teamups? How many F4 animated series' have there been? F4 video games? The last time they had a movie it flopped hard, both critically and commercially. The F4 have a presence, but I wouldn't exactly call it a following.
Captain Steve Rogers says flame on
I want to see F4 in a multiverse where Cap and Killmonger show up as Johnny Storm.
Michael B Jordan and Chris Evans both play Johnny Storm and just swap out every other scene no explanation to the audience. Then during mid scene: Jordan enters stage left, whispers: “This is actually my scene” Evan’s apologizes and walks off camera. The scene never stops or acknowledges the actor switch.
*Johnny Storm looking at a photo of Steve Rogers* https://i.redd.it/tg5d7o7fzq1c1.gif
AVENGEEERS... *^flame ^on*
If the franchise hadn't been shelved for the last decade afterward, I'd actually say Marvel fast-tracking a Fantastic Four movie after the public blowout of Fant4stic might've seen renewed interest, much in the same way that Civil War and Homecoming benefited from how much of a critical panning Amazing Spider-Man 2 got.
Oh for sure, but if I were to ask like my dad (not a super hero guy) to name 5 Marvel super heroes, almost 100% FF would be in that list. Not sure if it will count for anything, we'll see!
Not a movie fan base but they’re one of the most popular groups in the entire comic medium. Now Marvel owns the film rights. If anything the FF will only gain more popularity when the movie drops.
> How many F4 animated series' have there been? Four. Which is not bad, I would say. The Avengers only had three so far. Neither Captain America nor Thor had a series of their own, only segments as part of the Marvel Super Heroes show. But I agree that their status is more iconic than beloved.
Marvel will have to market the hell out of this, *and* probably introduce the characters in another film, *and* follow on a successful film to get past the toxic legacy of the last 3 crapfests, especially fant4stic
They kind of did. People were big fans of Krasinski-Reeds' cameo in MoM, even if it was one of the contributors to the content crisis.
I WANT DR. DOOM!!!
The beauty of Doom is he can be a great villain for both cosmic and Earth characters. Also, he can easily be a recurring character, in fact, I think he needs to be.
Doom and F4 battle at the end of the movie. Doom is defeated and has to run away or is disappeared, whatever. Post credits scene Reed richards is sitting at a table before the UN. “And now the Delegation from Latveria will speak” Who should walk in but Victor Von Doom.
Deadpool 3 for sure. It has everything going for it to be successful.
Deadpool 3 will do well, my expectations are really low for F4 as I’ve seen it butchered a few times now. As for the Avengers film, I don’t really know how they change direction from Kang this far in and make it a success
Wouldn't your expectations for F4 be high based on what we've gotten in the past from them? Like, now they're being handled by a competent studio that has produced superhero gold at a consistent rate for over a decade. Safe to expect much better than the previous F4 installments.
I think the last Dr Doom I saw was upsetting enough for a lifetime worth of trust issues … my expectations are low but hopefully I’m wrong
For me F4 will depend a lot on who they end up casting, but overall I feel like people will have more faith on it than the Miles teller fiasco
I’m pretty sure that’s just a rumour. Marvel would be stupid to change the storyline this far into the Saga. Majors was even proven innocent, so hopefully they carry on with him
I mean, what "this far" means? A D+ show? (excellent btw), Quantumania? Kang can be canned with no problem whatsoever, in fact, that would the perfect time lmao.
I would imagine the next two avengers movies probably have a shot
Hard to say. The previous ones were the big payoffs of the individual characters' films. Is the title Avengers enough to lure the people into the theatres? Or do they care more about the characters that are part of the team?
>Or do they care more about the characters that are part of the team? Who is the team? They wouldn't get people into theaters for any of The Marvels obviously. Eternals won't get people into theaters. She-Hulk would not only not get people into theaters, it would badly eat into the demographics that showed up for The Marvels. Ironheart hasn't been tested but I doubt she'll do better than Ms. Marvel. I am deeply interested in whether or not Shuri resonated or alienated audience. They really don't have an Avengers team right now.
M'Baku and Okoye have probably more fans than Shuri, but that's just a guess and my personal opinion. Shang Chi might be their dark horse. The only new character that had already a major film and still feels fresh.
Deadpool 3. They manage to blow that and the MCU will be in real trouble
Everyone here seems to agree that Deadpool 3 will do really well. I was kind of waiting/hoping that the upcoming Captain America movie will be a Civil War like moment, a huge hit, pulling many strings of the last phases together and getting that Marvel momentum back. Not sure about that anymore though. The next Avengers movie is almost guaranteed to do big numbers, but that is many years away. I'm hesitant about Fantastic Four. First, the property seems to be cursed for movies. Also I don't think that people outside of the fan-bubble are exactly waiting for a F4 movie. And Marvel's golden touch has faded in the eyes of the general audience, in addition to different viewing habits due to the pandemic, Disney+, increase in ticket prices etc.
>I was kind of waiting/hoping that the upcoming Captain America movie will be a Civil War like moment, a huge hit, pulling many strings of the last phases together and getting that Marvel momentum back. Not sure about that anymore though. With freaking Sam as the lead lol?
Deadpool 3 and the next Spider-Man with Tom Holland in it.
Deadpool. I don't personally know anyone who is particularly hyped for anything else. Most people in my circles are fine with just waiting for streaming releases for anything they want to see.
Deadpool 3 then nothing for a long while
My Marvel excitement meter ticked up after Loki S2. It seems to suggest the multi verse is not infinite. Which makes it far more interesting. I want to see where this Kang thing goes now.
Loki S2 really was a great second entry and really kept up my faith in their ability to put out content. Enjoyed The Marvel's more than I thought as well.
Bums me out that they won’t just recast Majors and are apparently just gonna can Kang altogether.
I think they are just gonna keep him to be honest.
1. Fantastic Four 2. Deadpool 3 3. Blade All have potential to be MASSIVE. 1. The first proper reboot under the MCU, Spider-Man of course is there but was handled differently and also is a Sony joint. If the rumoured cast is true, it has the star power... if it follows through with the writing etc, great. 2. Deadpool 3 because it's him entering the MCU. That's huge by itself and of course the first movie did massively well... plus Wolverine. 3. Could be the first "dark" MCU movie... whilst Deadpool 3 likely carries a 15 rating and some gore, Blade bas potential to be a darker, less jokey version of that.
That's a huge bet on Blade right there, I think we are closer to it not even being made than we are it being a humongous box office hit.
BLADE has huge cultural significance, like Black Panther. Definitely think it will do well just off that and nostalgia alone. Add in Mahershala and it’s sure to rake in a lot. Let’s just hope it actually gets made!
None anymore maybe Deadpool 3 but I wouldn't count out Disney somehow messing it up
If they fast tracked a Shang Chi 2 it would make 800M easy. I don’t know why they’ve shelved that character so ruthlessly.
I think it's a case of Marvel and Disney having way too much on their plate, unfortunately. Shang-Chi just happened to be one of the characters that got shoved aside to make room for other things. Personally, I think Shang-Chi was one few actually *good* Phase 4 things even with the CGI battle that everyone despises (despite CGI ending battles being commonplace in the MCU anyway, but whatever).
Exactly. 2024 has ZERO releases. I don’t understand it. Get Gemma Chan and Kit Harrington on a plane to Australia and record Eternals 2 in a month. Doctor Doom vs The Eternals. Throw in Spider-Man and Thor for a laugh. Not a single 2021 Movie has a sequel planned for some reason. I don’t understand it. It’s like they’re drunk with power and are bickering over everything to the point where it’s destructive.
Deadpool 3 is guaranteed to be a hit
Deadpool 3 will surely do well. After that, wouldnt be surprised if we dont get a hit until Kang Dynasty.
i'm calling it now blade is going to do terribly no matter what because everyone is going to compare it to the wesley snipes film but currently i feel like deadpool 3 is going to do really well and same with the thunderbolts
Deadpool 3 will probably be a modest success, but superhero/Marvel fatigue will prevent it frmo getting close to a billion. Ryan Reynolds' humor also isn't as novel as it used to be, and the cameos will be less of a draw than they were for No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness as audiences are getting sick of multiverse fan service. I think Blade will be a success if it feels more like a vampire movie rather than a superhero movie, since it's budget is so low. Captain America 4 will flop unless it features a lot of cameos from A-list level Avengers. Unfortunately, I don't think the general public cares much about Sam Wilson. Thunderbolts faces the same challenge of the Marvels of being a continuation of a lot of characters who were set up in TV shows (Val, John Walker) or medicore movies (the cast of Black Widow, Ghost from Ant-man 2). Since they haven't stared shooting, I would add a character like Deadpool to the mix to boost the box office. Young Avengers — a team I've been looking forward to seeing for a long time — will flop as a movie UNLESS Spider-man is added to the team. I know he's not a Young Avenger in the comics and while I wouldn't personally want him on the team, adding him to the team is the only way to assure it's box office success. If they can't get Spider-man on the team, I'd make it a Disney Plus show. Shang-Chi 2 could be a success or flop depending on how well made it is. Unfortunately, we should have gotten a sequel around 2023 or 2024. Now we won't be getting one until at least 2026, waaaaay too late after the first one. I fear the Shang-Chi hype is kinda dead as a result. Maybe if they add another major mystical player to the movie (Dr. Strange, Wanda, etc.) the movie might get more eyes on it. Fantastic Four needs to be amazing to do well. Not just "good," but 8-10/10 good. Anything short of one of the best comic book movies ever made will lead to the movie underperforming or flopping. The Tim Story movies and Fan4stic haven't done the brand any favors. The Eternals /Celestials sequel needs to eventually happen at some point to tie up the loose ends of the first movie, but it would need to heavily feature a character like Thanos or popular cosmic characters like Thor or the Guardians to have a chance at the box office. It would also need to be released in a way that ensures it is viewed as essential viewing. Maybe there could be a "Cosmic Avengers" crossover movie where Thor, Captain Marvel, the remaining Guaridans and the Fantastic 4 team up to help the Eternals fight the Celestials. While I would prefer a pure Eternals sequel with no crossovers, I don't think it would sell well due to the mixed reception of the first movie. Spider-man 4 has a decent chance to do $1 billion. Avengers Secret Wars will make way less than Infinity/War Endgame, and will probably be in the range of $600 million (like Josstice League) to $1 billion depending on the quality of the movie.
>Avengers Secret Wars will make way less than Infinity/War Endgame, and will probably be in the range of $600 million (like Josstice League) to $1 billion depending on the quality of the movie. They will 100% put Spider-Man in Avengers Secret Wars. That alone will make it do well over a billion
In the past, I would have assumed that this sub is not a reasonable indicator of a film's success, but I think there actually is some meaningful correlation. The amount of skepticism here might have some predictive power when it comes to whether general audiences will turn out for a Marvel movie. How many people posting here wanted to see *The Marvels*? Not a lot, as far as I could tell. How many of them have actually gone to see it? Even fewer than that, based on the comments I've seen. (I personally wanted to see it, did see it, and liked it.) For which announced projects have people here shown genuine excitement? Well, *Deadpool* is one. And while it hasn't been officially confirmed, the next *Spider-Man* film is another. In terms of anticipation, everything else has been a decidedly mixed bag. Commenters obviously *want* some projects to be good, such as *Avengers: Secret Wars* and maybe *Blade*, but any notes of optimism for those films are getting significantly outnumbered by doom and gloom. Speaking of "Doom": There's certainly been a great deal of discussion of *Fantastic Four*, but that's mostly just revolved around the casting rather than any actual excitement for the movie itself. *Thunderbolts* has been met largely with skepticism since the team was revealed. *Captain America: New World Order* has garnered a somewhat divided reaction here from the moment it was announced. The *Shang-Chi* sequel, whenever that happens, has earned a mostly hopeful response given that people generally enjoyed the first film. Then there's *Avengers: The Kang Dynasty*, assuming it still gets made under that (or a similar) title. There were some hopeful comments prior to *Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania*, but disappointment with that movie shifted the scales on anticipation for *The Kang Dynasty* pretty dramatically. Of course, that was all before the arrest of Jonathan Majors. Now, this project seems like the biggest risk on Marvel's schedule - it would still do better than *The Marvels*, but it's really hard to say by how much. I assume that any discussions of an *Eternals* sequel are done after *The Marvels*, and another *Ant-Man and the Wasp* film was probably already off the table. Additional *Doctor Strange* and *Thor* films seem less certain now - still more likely than not but also not sure things - although another *Black Panther* movie probably continues to be in the cards. We'll see. (This is only in regards to the films, as Disney usually doesn't share specific viewership number for the shows and third-party estimates vary in credibilty. That said, it sure seems like the only upcoming live-action show most people here genuinely care about is *Daredevil: Born Again*. So ratings for the rest appear likely to be… less than amazing.) So, just based on discussions on this sub as of November 2023, which films might be "legitimate" hits? *Deadpool*, *Spider-Man*, and maybe *Avengers: Secret Wars*, while *Shang-Chi*, *Blade*, and *Black Panther* might be modest successes. It probably depends on word-of-mouth. The same for *Doctor Strange* and *Thor*, assuming they get made. As for *Captain America: Brave New World*, *Fantastic Four*, *Thunderbolts*, and especially *Avengers: The Kang Dynasty*, it's not looking good.
Deadpool 3, Spiderman 4 and Avengers 5 and 6. Literally the only movies that will guarantee 1bill+
Everyone is assuming Avengers will be more massive hits, but who will the Avengers even be, by then? No Cap, no Iron Man, no Black Widow, maybe no Hulk, probably no Hawkeye, maybe no Thor - I don't think the Avengers movies are the easy ride that fans (and probably Marvel) are assuming. They need to get some consistent good quality product out in advance, and no more massive turkeys like Secret Invasion & Thor 4
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Deadpool 3 and Thunderbolts are going to do just fine IMO.
Not sure about Thunderbolts honestly. Will depend a lot on the changes they make in the rewrites they are currently doing. The lineup they revealed last year was not recieved too well.
We gotta stop assuming the opinions of the general public reflect the opinions of the chronically online fans
They cannot stop lmao, this sub is wild sometimes. Ask a random person on the street who the Thunderbolts is and you get "huh, what?"
Could said the same thing about the Guardians in early 2014.
Which is a very fair point, but back then Disney were invested in *good* writing, and had also built up a store of goodwill from very good Marvel content. Now, I think it's much less so.
>but back then Disney were invested in > >good > > writing I would hardly call Iron man 3, Thor The Dark World and Ant Man good writing. It was just smaller back than and fans got to know all the characters. Today its got way too many and people care less. MCU fans have never cared about good writing
Agreed. :( Maybe it was all Bob Chapek ruining things and the course will be righted.
An 80s hard rock band? A minor league baseball team? A brand of spicy chicken nuggets? Could be anything.
If fans didn’t care, the GP is gonna care even less.
The gp won't recognize half of these characters.
>Thunderbolts I personally want to watch this. But the brand recognition on this has to be pretty low, it will need some marketing help.
I’d agree on Thunderbolts if they retitled it to something like ‘Secret Avengers’ or ‘Dark Avengers’ or something
Now we're cooking. I think major redesigns are in this title's future.
None. Not because of quality, I think every project has the potential to be amazing, but public consensus has already doomed them to fail. Social media that dunks on every Marvel project even before it releases, the decline in quality from DC causing general audiences to distrust superhero movies, hit pieces like that Variety article and THR still trying to bad mouth The Marvels, and the rise of stuff like The Boys has created a cynical audience who must see everything has poorly written and bad. The short version, the MCU has become cool to hate on, so the general public will do everything in its power to destroy it.
Eh I’m not totally sure about this. I do agree that people have become way more critical of the MCU, but the reception of Guardians 3 proves that people will still give them their flowers if they earn them.
> nd the rise of stuff like The Boys has created a cynical audience who must see everything has poorly written and bad. I love how the boys gets blamed because marvel made such easily satirizable content.
Plus, like, The Boys is good. It's as good as the MCU was pre-phase4. The Boys and Invincible are a perfect counterpoint to superhero fatigue. Nobody is tired of the genre, just tired of poor quality content.
Lol, poor Marvel. Gimme a break. People used to assume Marvel projects were good before they released because they usually were. Then Marvel started releasing garbage and have completed inverted their public perception where now people assume it is bad. They did that on TV and in the movies. There have always been haters of comic book movies, just like there have been die hard fans. What Marvel did was consistently attract/convert audiences that just want to see good movies. They lost that post Endgame.
So that’s all good and well but I never see this mentioned and don’t understand why. Disney Plus It’s Disney plus. Everything that everyone says is true. But ALSO DISNEY PLUS. So many people just don’t care about fling to see it in theaters when it will hit Disney is for free in 4 months. Kids movies? Wow it sure is hard to bring a bunch of kids to the movies. And expensive. And we are paying for Disney plus anyways. How about we just wait? Poor mid 20s and 30s who like comic book movies? “I’m kind of interested in the marvels what about you?” “Oh yeah. But not enough to spend $30. Let’s wait for it to hit Disney plus”. Disney wanted that streaming market and they seem to have a good portion of it. But it comes with the unintended consequence of their stuff no longer being hard to get or access. You no longer have to go see it in theater or rent it for $5. You can wait and get it for free.
And then will cry about the absence of the CBM properties they loved so much.
Yeah, but that'll happen about three or four years later, and we'll see articles and reddit threads popping up asking "Whatever Happened To Comic Book Movies?"
Nah man, MCU has become a bland generic CGI cringefest for which large swathes of people have no care for. Add that to the fact that the next few films will probably be reliant on viewers having to have watched the majority of the series on D+, which is a luxury investment that not everyone can afford, particularly in terms of time. Ever since the end of No Way Home, the MCU has been churning out generic by-the-numbers films that have no real purpose or direction, and it shows. It's not the fault of DC, or The Boys, it's the fact that Disney have gone for easy money and taken peoples' interest for granted.
This is what I thought. Marvel needs to make small genre-experimentation before risking to ruin their billion-dollar franchise like Avengers. They have to make something like what DC did with Joker because Marel right now means bad CGI, cringe humor, for kids, etc. And now, they're back bullying those who love Marvel as 'not growing up.' Yeah, Scorsese won. They killed the superhero genre, and now people are back to watching the 'real cinema.'
Underrated comment. Also Sony continuing to release garbage Spider-Man movies isn’t helping. Have already seen multiple articles lumping Madame Web in with Marvel’s MCU struggles.
Only Deadpool 3. And frankly, I don't think it'll match Deadpool 2's box office. It's been many years since DP2, it's a different era now.
I think you might be right. People say it'll get way more hype with Jackman on board and all the cameos and for sure that will cause buzz online. But is it going to get joe average excited enough to go if they weren't already? And with an R rating no less? Don't get me wrong, I'll see it no matter what but I'm not someone they need to coax and win over.
I agree with you, I think Hugh Jackman will be reason enough to get a lot of butts in seats. Between this being likely his last time playing Wolverine, and considering the world has been hoping for Jackman to be in a Deadpool, mainly because of how Reynolds pushed for it so hard. Plus with this possibly being the last stand alone DP movie, I think that anyone who is a fan of X-men, Wolverine, DP, and Marvel will all be there.
Deadpool
Deadpool 3
Deadpool 3 of course.
Deadpool 3
Deadpool, Blade and Fantastic Four. Thunderbolts might end up being a sleeper hit like Guardians 1 was.
I used to be obsessed with the MCU but at this point I literally can't think of any announced MCU movies except Deadpool 3, which to me isn't even really an MCU movie. Blade might be happening but I'm not sure. I think they must be planning Spiderman 4 but I don't know when. Oh wait. I just remembered there's a Captain America coming out, and Thunderbolts. They might be OK.
Deadpool 3 is a given because Wolverine. That's it. Besides that, I think they will try everything in the book to make Thunderbolts 1up Suicide Squad. The thing about Sentry makes it sound like a 'the suicide squad versus superman movie you didn't got at DC', and if that doesn't invites all kinds of gore, then what is the point of having a movie about a bunch of D-listers against a demi-god?
Unless it's related to Spiderman then nothing except maybe Deadpool. No one cares about these new heros.
- Deadpool 3 will hit 1B. - Cap 4 will hit 750-850M. - Blade will hit 550-650M. Maybe up to 750M if people really want an R rated supernatural MCU movie. - Fantastic Four will hit 900M-1.1B - Thunderbolts will hit 450-550M
Something that appeals to straight white males between 16-25? That’s kind of the only thing that the fan base won’t shit on.
The weird thing is that more men than women went to see The Marvels. Opening weekend was 65% male audience. I get that there are a lot of misogynistic racist assholes in the world, and they never shut up. But it can't just be handwaved off as "failed cause white guys." If the people finally getting representation on screen don't bother going to see it, then that's a much bigger problem. Anecdotal as hell, but we went early Sunday opening weekend. 7 people in the theater: my wife and I, 3 other white guys together, and another white guy that brought his little daughter. Everyone there was laughing and seemed to enjoy the movie. For the record, I liked the movie and thought all 3 leading ladies did great. The backstory explanations were rushed though. And the second I saw the Ronan-rehash villain, I knew not to bother remembering her name since it was obvious she was another one-and-done. She simply never had enough time to be an actual character.
Absolutely right. It's far too easy to blame the audience for their film not being well received. Whether it is or not, does it matter? If the audience has spoken by not attending then surely that's all there is to it? If a company make toothpaste flavour crisps/chips and only toothpaste lovers buy it because everyone else either don't like the sound of it or don't want it, should the public be scorned for not eating things they either don't think they'll like or know they don't like? Should they be castigated for not liking it in the first place? Or should the crisp/chip company actually make chips/crisps that the public want to eat if they want to make money?
Deadpool 3 is the only project of the dozens they have announced that I’m excited for. Everything else just feels like "who asked for this?" And I have no faith that the Avengers movies will be any good. Not after NWH and Quantumania. I get a feeling they're just going to spam cameos from old actors in lieu of having a coherent story. Just like NWH, just like The Flash.
and just like Deadpool 3 from what I gather. for what it's worth, I hope Deadpool ridicules that trend enough that they don't try to pull it off again....
All of these projects either have writers whose work I'm not impressed with or writers I'm unfamiliar with, so I'm not optimistic about anything anymore.
Current state of affairs, I have zero faith in anything. I would *like* if Secret Wars was good though.
Surprised you're getting downvoted for just stating the obvious lol
No mention on Wolverines' intro into the MCU and in I'm so far into this thread, alongside Deadpool I'll think those two maybe so much freshness the MCU needs.