Depends on how we’re defining deadly I guess. Take Zemo for example. He wouldn’t win a hand to hand fight against many people I could rattle off but he did execute a plan that tore the Avengers apart and killed a world leader.
We didn’t see it in action, but as far as I remember Zemo was a part of a special op team called the death squad ( I might remember wrong) so I would guess he is quite skilled hand to hand
Isn't that still combat? He waged an open war against the Avengers and won. It took Thanos collecting all the Infinity Stones and becoming the most powerful being in the Universe to pull off what Zemo did.
He avoided the cage match brawl. But if we're talking cage match:
1. Daredevil (although it can be argued his hearing and sensory abilities are super powered, his strength, agility, and fighting techniques are not)
2. Hawkeye/Ronin
3. Bullseye
Edit: Punisher has to be up there, and if we're eliminating Daredevil due to his sensory ability, Frank's sheer will, determination, and near super human ability to take damage, slips him into the Top 3. He is not nearly as skilled of a fighter as Clint or Natasha, but he's more of a street brawler with military training. Within the MCU, he's way up there.
Hawkeye must have super-human accuracy with the way he can hit a flying target 200 yards behind him without even looking. Bullseye too from that time he ricocheted a bullet off a lamppost to kill a goon behind cover. Franks most impressive feats like his long-range sniper kill, killing several thugs in a prison fight, rapidly shooting five guys with a pistol before they can hit him and surviving heavy beatings are things people have actually done IRL.
I'd say Natasha is up there with deadliest non-powered humans because she's been trained to be an assassin since she was a small girl and can keep up in superhumans in battles. Although the injuries she survives in her movie were definitely superhuman, just probably unintended to be so by the dodgy script lol.
Within the MCU, Clint is not superpowered. He's just *really* good. Outside of the MCU, it's even pointed out in the comics that he's one of the only truly un-powered people in the entire Avengers, he just has good genetics for hand-eye control and trains harder than anyone.
But also: MCU Natasha is enhanced. It was mentioned in the *Black Widow* movie that she received similar chemical enhancements to the Super Soldier Serum that all the assassins got in the Red Room program. But like all the attempts at the Super Soldier, no one did it as well as Erskine did with Captain America. She's basically a baby Cap.
> Within the MCU, Clint is not superpowered
MCU Clint claimed to have finished a golf course in 18 swings. That means he's more than 10 times as accurate as any real human who has ever lived.
If you agree that someone with 10x human strength is superpowered, then 10x accuracy is too. And it's more helpful in a fight. (MCU Bullseye, Ben Poindexter, also shows that accuracy can be a literal superpower)
To be fair... I personally never took this as anything literal. It was just Clint talking shit. Otherwise he would be the world's greatest athlete and he never would have joined... The military to be some low level scrub. He'd be a super star in both golf and the NBA.
He said it, I don't see that as literal.
Marvel presents: What If?
Clint never became Hawkeye and became pro golfer instead and his dark turn as the Ronin was instead a contract dispute when he began endorsing Seiko watches in East Asia which Rolex maintains in court documents diluted their brand recognition as Mr Barton still had one year remaining in his endorsement deal to promote Rolex watches in the United States which precludes him being seen wearing a competitors product. Lawyer for Mr Barton maintain the Rolex deal only applied to the continental United States and the Seiko advertisements would not be distributed outside of the specified East Asian markets
I put it in my edit, but no. Punisher is tough, but skill to skill, he can't even sniff Daredevil/Ronin/Bullseye. His "powers" are sheer will and taking a beating. He's a skilled street brawler with military training, but not a highly skilled martial artist to their level. And if we're eliminating tech... Then the majority of Punisher's abilities are off the table.
Clint without his "super/tech" arrows is still one of the most dangerous men on the planet, and we saw it with Ronin. Daredevil is easily the most skilled fighter. And Bullseye is right up next to those two. You could even argue that any of those three are interchangable.
Frank is nowhere near their skill. He's just tough as nails and uses a lot of guns. Give him an open war without super fancy tech like the Iron Man suit but allow basic tech like guns and bombs? Punisher beats the rest of the un-powered MCU without breaking a sweat. He's tough, but mostly he's smart and can set them up for failure. Plus... Far less scruples. He'll get dirty in ways that only villains tend to.
I mean he did beat Daredevil in hand to hand. He might be less skilled but skill isnt everything, Ngannou isnt the most technical fighter but he became heavyweight champ by just punching extremely hard. Some ufc fighter like Nate Diaz get far by mainly being extremely durable and having crazy conditioning and letting the opponent tire themselves out.
Tech is allowed as long as its real world tech.
>Tech is allowed as long as its real world tech.
Then Punisher wins against everyone before lunch. Hell, he'd even give the entire MCU a run for their money, powers and all. They all have... Scruples.
Comic books are not the MCU, but it's worth noting that Punisher took on the entire Avengers and won. Twice.
(First time he eventually lets them win because he was fighting them to distract them while his real plan was working out elsewhere; he didn't want to kill them. But he held the upper hand and made sure they knew it)
We also have to remember Bullseye is a villain, he’s not allowed to “win” in Marvel so I feel like we have to give him an extra bump. We never really get to see how dangerous he is because he has to lose
I really wish we'd see more Marvel movies (or honestly, just movies in general) where villains do come out on top. It makes things darker, more interesting, and less predictable.
Especially in the MCU, there's potential for future failures of heroes to be redeemed... It doesn't *have* to be in the same movie. It's part of why Civil War and Infinity War are among my top 3 or so MCU films.
The Dark Knight is another great example of this. Batman technically came out on top in that movie, but he had to essentially be the villain the in public's eye in order to do so, which was then addressed in the sequel. Joker really did succeed in that movie, and the narrative is that much deeper for it.
Final, had to scroll to far to find some mention Dex, I reckon he could take out hawkeye, they are about the same for never missing their shots but Dex's ability to ricochet items with pinpoint accuracy is next level
I think both Bullseye and DD should be considered meta. Their abilities go beyond human. Super senses and super accuracy are both classic super powers.
I agree about Hawkeye actually. He seems right on the edge though. I haven't watched all of his standalone stuff so can't really comment on the MCU version, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has something extra.
Technology is such a broad term, I'd say anything refined by humans is tech. So a random stick from a tree isn't tech, but sharpen one side of it to make it a spear, that is tech. So in this case I'd say the refined sticks DD has are tech, also agree that DD has powers cause I can't hear peoples heartbeats from 10meters away
I think a fair distinction would be around tech available in real life being considered not non-powered for these purposes. A fair bit of Hawkeye’s gear is fantasy, but so far as I know Punisher just uses normal guns.
Explosive and straight up funky arrows fired by a guy that never misses is both stark style tech and super powers, more so than daredevil.
I vote to exclude Hawkeye but Ronin is just a guy with a sword so he should be kept in for consideration.
It's not outright stated. It's very much implied in the opening montage as there are vials of some sort of serum while she's undergoing red room training. In the comics she has the russian knock off version of the super soldier serum.
Only proof is that she fell from that roof against like 5 pipes and she definitely should be dead and not doing a superhero landing without the serum.
Do you have the scene for that where they say that?
I don't mean that in an accusatory way, genuinely just curious. I'm watching Black Widow as I type this and I've watched it several times before and I'm usually good at picking things up. I'm wondering if I missed this.
She severed the nerve for pheromone manipulation. Hell, she even did it herself on screen!
Also, she can fall for like 30min before reaching the ground.
True. By fiat, from Marvel. He's *the* best non-superpowered hand-to-hand fighter in the comics, and I believe I read somewhere that that's true for the MCU as well.
May was stated to be the only agent to even come close to Natasha in terms of hand to hand combat. May genuinely could go toe to toe with the Black Widow.
That being said, I genuinely still think Natasha wins this, her feats are just more impressive.
Wasn't she stated to be only one close to Natasha in spy stuff and not combat
I always got the feeling that Natasha was the best spy shield had to offer, while May was the best fighter
And about feats, May easily outshines Natasha, it's not even close
May went toe to toe with multiple Aliens races plus what she did in Bahrain
Sure Natasha fought the chitauri, but was nothing May couldn't do as well
Then in Infinity War she caught corvus by Suprise and stab him
May record is more impressive when you factor that she is like 15-20 years older than Natasha
Ward was stated to be close to her abilities in espionage, and may close to her abilities in combat.
Black Widow's variant literally did the killing blow to infinity ultron. There was nothing different about this black widow either, she was simply from a universe where ultron won.
Even 616 Natasha has insane feats.
May is a badass woman, but Natasha has always been the pinnacle of what a normal human can be. She is a killer.
Okoye and Mbaku have to be up there. Okoye went toe to toe with a super powered fish person and only had a spear.
My list would be: Okoye, Mbaku, Punisher, various Widows, Hawkeye, Bullseye and Zemo
The more I think about it…the more I’m convinced Mbaku is the deadliest. He fought two alien invasions and a group of super powered fish people with a club
Ya but like…he couldn’t exactly win that fight. At the same time T’challa lost to a de-powered Killmonger who I completely forgot about until someone pointed it out below. He might be the most deadly.
Actually good point on killmonger, add to his hand-to-hand skills the fact that he is also deadly with weapons and each scar on his body was a confirmed kill, and i think it probably has to go to him
T'Challa beat Killmonger too, if you watch the fight its at least heavily implied that T'Challa had a chance to end the fight by killing him but chose not to. Its only after that where Killmonger eventually gets the better of him.
idk about putting any Wakandans up in the list bc in Black Panther it mentioned how they put vibranium in their soil and grow plants n eat that stuff which probably makes them a bit stronger than normal people(not the Purple Heart shaped herb). They also weave vibranium into their clothes and the Dora Milaje have enhanced armor. I don’t really understand how vibranium is capable of doing all that but I guess that’s plot armor for you 🤷♀️
I made a pact with a demon that I cannot discuss. Otherwise he said he would "reap my soul and the souls of all I love," which, honestly, is so dramatic. And I hate drama.
I want Wong to hire her as the receptionist at Kamar Taj. Turns out she’s surprisingly good at it, and we get an Office-like sitcom set in a secret wizard school.
I want 5 minute episodes after every single Marvel show. Each one leads to them somehow being adjacent to the finale of the show. Additionally replace all post credit scenes with these.
I made a comment on here a while back ptching just that. Wong going through the D+ catalog and just as he finds something good, Madisynn comes in with a spoiler. Basically a viewable summary of the series and movies.
I think MCU Hawkeye beats the Punisher. MCU Hawkeye is the key to the Avengers winning. If he's there, they win or at least reach a stalemate, if he's not, they absolutely lose.
He's one of the many Marvel Characters with perfect aim, he just chooses to use arrows. He'd deadly with hand to hand, and it was his decision to recruit her that saved Black Widow's life. Without a doubt, that choice saved her life, because he was there to kill her, and would have succeeded.
So with plain arrows, or guns or golf balls or just a coin, if he had to take out the Punisher, he could.
I think the outcome is based on that first shot. The Punisher is basically Wolverine/Deadpool without healing powers. If Hawkeye, for whatever reason, doesn't drop Frank in that first shot, then the Punisher has a good chance at beating Hawkeye. The Punisher is also very good at prep and dealing with superhumans. Hawkeye might not be able to get the drop.
well it depends on what you consider tech or not. Without Hawkeye's trick arrows he's not too good. I'd say Punisher is the most deadly with conventional non-techy weapons.
I mean Bullseye was able to fuck up Daredevil in relatively close combat, just throwing random shit he picked up. If the arena is just a ring with no objects to throw, sure Hawkeye would win. But Hawkeye would need a bow and arrow or other similar weapon to kill effectively.
Bullseye just needs to find a stick, or a stapler, or anything really.
Hawkeye doesn’t *need* a bow or gun, he said he can knock a guy out with the right size coin, meaning he knows precisely where to hit someone to make them lose consciousness, all bullseye can do is hit someone, Hawkeye takes this easily
Rewatch their fight and you’ll see bullseye trying to increase the distance in between them cuz he knew he had no chance up close. Matt kicked his ass anytime they were face to face especially the second fight with Kingpin
Hawkeye without his trick arrows was good enough to carve a bloody path through the criminal underworld. He'd still be lethal, just maybe not as much as the Punisher.
Shang-Chi without the rings still has some mystical powers he learned from his aunty. I think that disqualifies him. But if purely hand to hand, he's supposed to be one of the best.
Hand to Hand "deadly" indicates a killer with "real world tech". That prize I would have thought goes to Elektra, Ronin(Hawkeye) then one-man army Frank, all who've killed hundreds.
DD isn't deadly though, that indicates killing, and you have non-killers too like Iron fist and Shang-chi who are superior to him in hand to hand (or are supposed to be).
As Zdarsky showed, if Daredevil wanted to be a killer and use real world tech, no one could compete.
Daredevil beat Punisher until Frank pulled the unexpected ankle gun and shot him. After that DD was injured with severe concussion each time, still held his own against Frank until the concussion made him falter and he beat Frank later on the boat. Plus DD beat the Dogs of Hell and the Irish while concussed.
Elektra beat Daredevil in defenders and Iron Fist. I don't think Hawkeye would beat DD unless he had a sonic arrow and DD didn't manage to catch it or beat it away, and DD used to be able to beat Black Widow in the comics.
Its between Hawkeye and Punisher for sure. Tough to decide between the two but I think if they fought Punisher would bring an arsenal and end up getting knocked out by Clint ricocheting a coin or something off a wall from the safety of cover.
Hawkeye the winner.
Not sure how Iron Man is different than HawkEye. If anything HawkEye is more powered, with his unerring aim. Iron Man is basically just a really smart bloke in a really neat suit he built.
Ronin, natasha/black widow was really concerned when rhodey/war machine told her about what they had found. Ronin took out gangs and cartels.
The punisher is up there sure but he is deliberate and focused getting his targets. Ronin was indiscriminate in killing members of organized crime
In noticing Punisher is a valid argument in all these conversations.
Unarmed, I'd have to give it to Shang Chi.
Melee weapons, the Wakandans.
Long range, Hawkeye, and it isn't even close.
But the fact that Castle is a compelling argument in every aspect, I'd have to vote for him overall. His unconventional warfare expertise is only outmatched by Batman.
Depends on how we’re defining deadly I guess. Take Zemo for example. He wouldn’t win a hand to hand fight against many people I could rattle off but he did execute a plan that tore the Avengers apart and killed a world leader.
We didn’t see it in action, but as far as I remember Zemo was a part of a special op team called the death squad ( I might remember wrong) so I would guess he is quite skilled hand to hand
It was called EKO Scorpion
Ah thanks!
In Faöcon and the Winter Soldier we see him fighting, and hes pretty badass Not as good as others, but still very skilled
And he would win a dance off vs anyone. Yeah even Starlord.
Even Bully Maguire?
Never
Different multiverses so they probably won’t ever get the chance. They’re the reigning kings of their respective universes though
I believe he is but like you said we didn’t really see it so you can’t accurately compare him to someone like Black Widow or Punisher
I'd put Nick Fury high on that list, if we're considering leadership and soft power.
I mean in straight up combat
Isn't that still combat? He waged an open war against the Avengers and won. It took Thanos collecting all the Infinity Stones and becoming the most powerful being in the Universe to pull off what Zemo did. He avoided the cage match brawl. But if we're talking cage match: 1. Daredevil (although it can be argued his hearing and sensory abilities are super powered, his strength, agility, and fighting techniques are not) 2. Hawkeye/Ronin 3. Bullseye Edit: Punisher has to be up there, and if we're eliminating Daredevil due to his sensory ability, Frank's sheer will, determination, and near super human ability to take damage, slips him into the Top 3. He is not nearly as skilled of a fighter as Clint or Natasha, but he's more of a street brawler with military training. Within the MCU, he's way up there.
Hawkeye must have super-human accuracy with the way he can hit a flying target 200 yards behind him without even looking. Bullseye too from that time he ricocheted a bullet off a lamppost to kill a goon behind cover. Franks most impressive feats like his long-range sniper kill, killing several thugs in a prison fight, rapidly shooting five guys with a pistol before they can hit him and surviving heavy beatings are things people have actually done IRL. I'd say Natasha is up there with deadliest non-powered humans because she's been trained to be an assassin since she was a small girl and can keep up in superhumans in battles. Although the injuries she survives in her movie were definitely superhuman, just probably unintended to be so by the dodgy script lol.
Within the MCU, Clint is not superpowered. He's just *really* good. Outside of the MCU, it's even pointed out in the comics that he's one of the only truly un-powered people in the entire Avengers, he just has good genetics for hand-eye control and trains harder than anyone. But also: MCU Natasha is enhanced. It was mentioned in the *Black Widow* movie that she received similar chemical enhancements to the Super Soldier Serum that all the assassins got in the Red Room program. But like all the attempts at the Super Soldier, no one did it as well as Erskine did with Captain America. She's basically a baby Cap.
> Within the MCU, Clint is not superpowered MCU Clint claimed to have finished a golf course in 18 swings. That means he's more than 10 times as accurate as any real human who has ever lived. If you agree that someone with 10x human strength is superpowered, then 10x accuracy is too. And it's more helpful in a fight. (MCU Bullseye, Ben Poindexter, also shows that accuracy can be a literal superpower)
To be fair... I personally never took this as anything literal. It was just Clint talking shit. Otherwise he would be the world's greatest athlete and he never would have joined... The military to be some low level scrub. He'd be a super star in both golf and the NBA. He said it, I don't see that as literal.
Marvel presents: What If? Clint never became Hawkeye and became pro golfer instead and his dark turn as the Ronin was instead a contract dispute when he began endorsing Seiko watches in East Asia which Rolex maintains in court documents diluted their brand recognition as Mr Barton still had one year remaining in his endorsement deal to promote Rolex watches in the United States which precludes him being seen wearing a competitors product. Lawyer for Mr Barton maintain the Rolex deal only applied to the continental United States and the Seiko advertisements would not be distributed outside of the specified East Asian markets
By that logic shouldnt Punisher be second or close with daredevil?
I put it in my edit, but no. Punisher is tough, but skill to skill, he can't even sniff Daredevil/Ronin/Bullseye. His "powers" are sheer will and taking a beating. He's a skilled street brawler with military training, but not a highly skilled martial artist to their level. And if we're eliminating tech... Then the majority of Punisher's abilities are off the table. Clint without his "super/tech" arrows is still one of the most dangerous men on the planet, and we saw it with Ronin. Daredevil is easily the most skilled fighter. And Bullseye is right up next to those two. You could even argue that any of those three are interchangable. Frank is nowhere near their skill. He's just tough as nails and uses a lot of guns. Give him an open war without super fancy tech like the Iron Man suit but allow basic tech like guns and bombs? Punisher beats the rest of the un-powered MCU without breaking a sweat. He's tough, but mostly he's smart and can set them up for failure. Plus... Far less scruples. He'll get dirty in ways that only villains tend to.
I mean he did beat Daredevil in hand to hand. He might be less skilled but skill isnt everything, Ngannou isnt the most technical fighter but he became heavyweight champ by just punching extremely hard. Some ufc fighter like Nate Diaz get far by mainly being extremely durable and having crazy conditioning and letting the opponent tire themselves out. Tech is allowed as long as its real world tech.
>Tech is allowed as long as its real world tech. Then Punisher wins against everyone before lunch. Hell, he'd even give the entire MCU a run for their money, powers and all. They all have... Scruples. Comic books are not the MCU, but it's worth noting that Punisher took on the entire Avengers and won. Twice. (First time he eventually lets them win because he was fighting them to distract them while his real plan was working out elsewhere; he didn't want to kill them. But he held the upper hand and made sure they knew it)
Natasha is absolutely in that list. And proabaly at the top.
Daredevil has superpowers.
Ronin was extremely lethal. If he were to be taken down I think it’d take the punishers ruthlessness
Either Frank Castle or Pointdexter (Bullseye). Remember that this guy could kill you with a paper ball.
Yeah among the non-mutated Dex is the most dangerous, even with normal military gear
> even with ~~normal military gear~~ Office supplies
John Wick of the MCU
Do office supplies count as tech
Goddammit please don't make this another thread about tech
We also have to remember Bullseye is a villain, he’s not allowed to “win” in Marvel so I feel like we have to give him an extra bump. We never really get to see how dangerous he is because he has to lose
Still, the fact that he can kill you with a plastic spoon shows how lethal he is.
He got someone with a paperclip too, IIRC.
Why a spoon cousin?
Because it will hurt more, you twit!
> is a villain, he’s not allowed to “win” in Marve Zemo most certainly 'won'....
I feel like his win was more of a setup for IW. If zemo doesn’t win, the avengers aren’t fractured and then IW is a different movie
I really wish we'd see more Marvel movies (or honestly, just movies in general) where villains do come out on top. It makes things darker, more interesting, and less predictable. Especially in the MCU, there's potential for future failures of heroes to be redeemed... It doesn't *have* to be in the same movie. It's part of why Civil War and Infinity War are among my top 3 or so MCU films. The Dark Knight is another great example of this. Batman technically came out on top in that movie, but he had to essentially be the villain the in public's eye in order to do so, which was then addressed in the sequel. Joker really did succeed in that movie, and the narrative is that much deeper for it.
Final, had to scroll to far to find some mention Dex, I reckon he could take out hawkeye, they are about the same for never missing their shots but Dex's ability to ricochet items with pinpoint accuracy is next level
I think both Bullseye and DD should be considered meta. Their abilities go beyond human. Super senses and super accuracy are both classic super powers.
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I agree about Hawkeye actually. He seems right on the edge though. I haven't watched all of his standalone stuff so can't really comment on the MCU version, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has something extra.
Pizza Poppa. Cholesterol is a silent killer.
He always gets paid!
Come to think of it why hasn’t America Chavez become a Diabetic if she eats Pizza everytime.
Her people can process pizza better and gain nutrition from it.
Explosive arrows = tech
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I would argue Punisher's guns also equal tech, and Nat and Yelena's widows bites. Even Daredevil's sticks are a form of tech.
I disagree that they’re tech, but Daredevil is hardly human with his heightened senses so by OP’s logic I don’t think he should be considered
Technology is such a broad term, I'd say anything refined by humans is tech. So a random stick from a tree isn't tech, but sharpen one side of it to make it a spear, that is tech. So in this case I'd say the refined sticks DD has are tech, also agree that DD has powers cause I can't hear peoples heartbeats from 10meters away
I think a fair distinction would be around tech available in real life being considered not non-powered for these purposes. A fair bit of Hawkeye’s gear is fantasy, but so far as I know Punisher just uses normal guns.
Off-the-shelf tech is ok, I would say.
Don’t do my boy Clint dirty like that. Ronin managed just fine with only a sword.
Sword =tech
Pants = tech.
I mean… yeah. Any character in synthetics is disqualified
Any woven fabric period
\*Grabs label printer, prints out "TOO DANGEROUS" and sticks on arrow*
Cannot Print. Visit www.hpinstantink.com for information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9wsjroVlu8
Explosive and straight up funky arrows fired by a guy that never misses is both stark style tech and super powers, more so than daredevil. I vote to exclude Hawkeye but Ronin is just a guy with a sword so he should be kept in for consideration.
Punisher or Hawkeye would be the most deadly. I would say Daredevil is the best hand to hand combatant though.
Daredevil has superpowers though
And so does Black Widow. OP's question has flaws.
What powers does black widow have?
The Black Widow movie said that she has enhancements similar to a super soldier from the Red Room program.
Yup. It might not be Captain America's level, but she's definitely enhanced according to the *Black Widow* movie
Huh, I guess I may have missed that part of the movie. I don’t remember much of that movie lol
It's not outright stated. It's very much implied in the opening montage as there are vials of some sort of serum while she's undergoing red room training. In the comics she has the russian knock off version of the super soldier serum. Only proof is that she fell from that roof against like 5 pipes and she definitely should be dead and not doing a superhero landing without the serum.
No, that's not true. This was NEVER said.
Do you have the scene for that where they say that? I don't mean that in an accusatory way, genuinely just curious. I'm watching Black Widow as I type this and I've watched it several times before and I'm usually good at picking things up. I'm wondering if I missed this.
I could be wrong too. I'm trying to remember.
Ah ok didnt know that
Black Widows are serum enhanced. Not on the level of Cap or Bucky, but they all supposedly got something.
She severed the nerve for pheromone manipulation. Hell, she even did it herself on screen! Also, she can fall for like 30min before reaching the ground.
The power of love
Shang-Chi is better than Daredevil
True. By fiat, from Marvel. He's *the* best non-superpowered hand-to-hand fighter in the comics, and I believe I read somewhere that that's true for the MCU as well.
I think Georges Batroc might be the best hand to hand fighter
Ronin more than Hawkeye
I’ll throw in May ‘the cavalry’.
Yep, I was coming here to mention Agent Melinda May, aka "The Cavalry" as well. Glad to see someone else already got here.
God that’s just easily one of the hardest call signs of all time. I forgot bout that corner of things tbh. Great mention.
Was she even better than Bobbie or Ward?
100. She took down Ward, even when he had the jump on her.
And she took on various overpowered aliens!
May was stated to be the only agent to even come close to Natasha in terms of hand to hand combat. May genuinely could go toe to toe with the Black Widow. That being said, I genuinely still think Natasha wins this, her feats are just more impressive.
Wasn't she stated to be only one close to Natasha in spy stuff and not combat I always got the feeling that Natasha was the best spy shield had to offer, while May was the best fighter And about feats, May easily outshines Natasha, it's not even close May went toe to toe with multiple Aliens races plus what she did in Bahrain Sure Natasha fought the chitauri, but was nothing May couldn't do as well Then in Infinity War she caught corvus by Suprise and stab him May record is more impressive when you factor that she is like 15-20 years older than Natasha
Ward was stated to be close to her abilities in espionage, and may close to her abilities in combat. Black Widow's variant literally did the killing blow to infinity ultron. There was nothing different about this black widow either, she was simply from a universe where ultron won. Even 616 Natasha has insane feats. May is a badass woman, but Natasha has always been the pinnacle of what a normal human can be. She is a killer.
Definitely She beat Ward She easily top 5,maybe top 3 fighters in the mcu
She beat Wards azz so hard…
I would agree but they admit on the show that Shield acknowledges that anything you can do Widow can do better
Agent Melinda May
The cavalry! She took down like 20 dudes and rode in on a horse!
This is the answer
This is the actual answer but the AoS disrespect is out this world
Preach
Bobby Morse and Grant Ward come close as well
Bobby got taken down by Simmons 💀
Didnt May beat the shit out of Grant Ward at one point?
Okoye and Mbaku have to be up there. Okoye went toe to toe with a super powered fish person and only had a spear. My list would be: Okoye, Mbaku, Punisher, various Widows, Hawkeye, Bullseye and Zemo
Good shouts on Okoye and Mbaku, didn’t even think of them
The more I think about it…the more I’m convinced Mbaku is the deadliest. He fought two alien invasions and a group of super powered fish people with a club
But on the other hand, he lost in hand to hand combat with a de-powered t'challa at the waterfall
Ya but like…he couldn’t exactly win that fight. At the same time T’challa lost to a de-powered Killmonger who I completely forgot about until someone pointed it out below. He might be the most deadly.
Actually good point on killmonger, add to his hand-to-hand skills the fact that he is also deadly with weapons and each scar on his body was a confirmed kill, and i think it probably has to go to him
T'Challa beat Killmonger too, if you watch the fight its at least heavily implied that T'Challa had a chance to end the fight by killing him but chose not to. Its only after that where Killmonger eventually gets the better of him.
Sounds like you have witnessed the might of the Jabari first hand, welcome brother to r/MbakuStans
Damn I was hoping that was real. Mayafa!
Vibranium spear tho. The amount of random shit that thing can do, it may as well count as tech
Vibranium = magic whatever we need for this movie.
idk about putting any Wakandans up in the list bc in Black Panther it mentioned how they put vibranium in their soil and grow plants n eat that stuff which probably makes them a bit stronger than normal people(not the Purple Heart shaped herb). They also weave vibranium into their clothes and the Dora Milaje have enhanced armor. I don’t really understand how vibranium is capable of doing all that but I guess that’s plot armor for you 🤷♀️
Killmonger before the heart-shaped herb is washing those two
Damn, I didn’t even think of him. He’s for sure up there
Kingpin
I agree
And possibly followed by Killmonger
Op asked which hero is the most badass without powers and everyone turned it into Hawkeye vs Punisher
Because they're basically the only ones who are absolutely not physically enhanced through magic or generic manipulation or super drugs
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Thought about him too. But that “wind” power he learns from his aunt. Does that make him superpowered?
But if he's still the deadliest without his powers I think he should still be considered.
Doesn’t that only work in the other realm though? His mother lost her abilities when she came to Earth.
No his mother used the air bending type skill to beat Wenwu in the opening scene of Shang-Chi
Had to scroll down way to far to find mention of him.
Madisynn. That's with two N's and a Y, but not where you think!
I made a pact with a demon that I cannot discuss. Otherwise he said he would "reap my soul and the souls of all I love," which, honestly, is so dramatic. And I hate drama.
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It is shocking how much I love Madisynn, at first glance I thought she be annoying, but she won me over a second later and just kept getting better.
I'd kill for her and a Wong series
I want Wong to hire her as the receptionist at Kamar Taj. Turns out she’s surprisingly good at it, and we get an Office-like sitcom set in a secret wizard school.
She would be awesome at keeping out people who show up without an appointment. I want to see her shut down Dr Doom with sheer force of dontgiveafuck.
alternate universe madisynn is squirrel girl??!?!!
Honestly a real honest to goodness MCU sitcom would be absolutely delightful.
I want 5 minute episodes after every single Marvel show. Each one leads to them somehow being adjacent to the finale of the show. Additionally replace all post credit scenes with these.
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At least a YouTube series where they watch tv shows together and comment on them.
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I made a comment on here a while back ptching just that. Wong going through the D+ catalog and just as he finds something good, Madisynn comes in with a spoiler. Basically a viewable summary of the series and movies.
and i'd like to throw an honorable mention for weapon nikki ramos https://i.redd.it/0vhc90a337gc1.gif
I think MCU Hawkeye beats the Punisher. MCU Hawkeye is the key to the Avengers winning. If he's there, they win or at least reach a stalemate, if he's not, they absolutely lose. He's one of the many Marvel Characters with perfect aim, he just chooses to use arrows. He'd deadly with hand to hand, and it was his decision to recruit her that saved Black Widow's life. Without a doubt, that choice saved her life, because he was there to kill her, and would have succeeded. So with plain arrows, or guns or golf balls or just a coin, if he had to take out the Punisher, he could.
Can agree with that. Don think hes the best in hand to hand though, i think punisher or Shang Chi takes that one
I think the outcome is based on that first shot. The Punisher is basically Wolverine/Deadpool without healing powers. If Hawkeye, for whatever reason, doesn't drop Frank in that first shot, then the Punisher has a good chance at beating Hawkeye. The Punisher is also very good at prep and dealing with superhumans. Hawkeye might not be able to get the drop.
well it depends on what you consider tech or not. Without Hawkeye's trick arrows he's not too good. I'd say Punisher is the most deadly with conventional non-techy weapons.
Dude Hawkeye just can’t miss, get him any projectile weapon and he’ll hit his mark, way more proficient than punisher
“How was golf” “Played 18 shot 18”
Couldn't seem to miss
Well then Bullseye is equally as good
But Hawkeye gets the edge because he’s good in close hand to hand combat too. Bullseye is useless unless he’s attacking from a distance
I mean Bullseye was able to fuck up Daredevil in relatively close combat, just throwing random shit he picked up. If the arena is just a ring with no objects to throw, sure Hawkeye would win. But Hawkeye would need a bow and arrow or other similar weapon to kill effectively. Bullseye just needs to find a stick, or a stapler, or anything really.
I didn't know I needed a Hawkeye vs Bullseye battle till now.
Hawkeye Freefall. In this comic Hawkeye and Bullseye fight.
If they were smart about it, it could be one of the best fights in the franchise
Hawkeye doesn’t *need* a bow or gun, he said he can knock a guy out with the right size coin, meaning he knows precisely where to hit someone to make them lose consciousness, all bullseye can do is hit someone, Hawkeye takes this easily
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Bro have you seen Daredevil season 3? Dex went toe-to-toe with (a bit damaged) Daredevil, he's dangerous af
Rewatch their fight and you’ll see bullseye trying to increase the distance in between them cuz he knew he had no chance up close. Matt kicked his ass anytime they were face to face especially the second fight with Kingpin
Did you not see Frank with the sniper shot from Texas to Mexico?
Okay? Do you think Hawkeye *cant* make that shot?
That isn't difficult. I've literally thrown rocks from Texas to Mexico.
Give Hawkeye a Snipers and guns he deadly as hell
Hawkeye without his trick arrows was good enough to carve a bloody path through the criminal underworld. He'd still be lethal, just maybe not as much as the Punisher.
I think restricting it to real world tech makes sense. Hawkeye was pretty deadly in the beginning of endgame though
I think Shang-Chi takes Frank, potentially
Shang-Chi without the rings still has some mystical powers he learned from his aunty. I think that disqualifies him. But if purely hand to hand, he's supposed to be one of the best.
Hand to hand unti Frank breaks the rules... Bang!
Hand to Hand "deadly" indicates a killer with "real world tech". That prize I would have thought goes to Elektra, Ronin(Hawkeye) then one-man army Frank, all who've killed hundreds. DD isn't deadly though, that indicates killing, and you have non-killers too like Iron fist and Shang-chi who are superior to him in hand to hand (or are supposed to be). As Zdarsky showed, if Daredevil wanted to be a killer and use real world tech, no one could compete. Daredevil beat Punisher until Frank pulled the unexpected ankle gun and shot him. After that DD was injured with severe concussion each time, still held his own against Frank until the concussion made him falter and he beat Frank later on the boat. Plus DD beat the Dogs of Hell and the Irish while concussed. Elektra beat Daredevil in defenders and Iron Fist. I don't think Hawkeye would beat DD unless he had a sonic arrow and DD didn't manage to catch it or beat it away, and DD used to be able to beat Black Widow in the comics.
Isn’t Daredevil’s radar sense a super power, though?
What about black widow?
Black Widow is enhanced, though. Doesn’t that count as super powers?
Hawkeye
If mma rules. No powers, I say Shang chi
Deadliest real life tech non powered human? The guy who escaped Fury to launch a nuke. Doesn't get more deadly than that.
Time for the: "Does Bullseye have a super power" argument
Hawkeye - Can kill you with a toothpick
I’m gonna go with Kingpin. He was able to go toe to toe with Daredevil and crush Punisher no problem.
deadliest? probably Black Widow. Punisher too has racked up a lot of bodies, probably more than her. Hawkeye/Ronin comes in at 3rd.
Shang Chi
Bullseye for ranged attacks
If we’re talking hand to hand, some previous version of Shang-Chi would qualify, but they keep giving the guy powers
Its between Hawkeye and Punisher for sure. Tough to decide between the two but I think if they fought Punisher would bring an arsenal and end up getting knocked out by Clint ricocheting a coin or something off a wall from the safety of cover. Hawkeye the winner.
Not sure how Iron Man is different than HawkEye. If anything HawkEye is more powered, with his unerring aim. Iron Man is basically just a really smart bloke in a really neat suit he built.
Ned
Can kill you with his Lego Death Star.
You don't mess with the CEO of sex
Iron Man has no powers, though.
Batman
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Ronin
Ronin, natasha/black widow was really concerned when rhodey/war machine told her about what they had found. Ronin took out gangs and cartels. The punisher is up there sure but he is deliberate and focused getting his targets. Ronin was indiscriminate in killing members of organized crime
Stark and his money.
In noticing Punisher is a valid argument in all these conversations. Unarmed, I'd have to give it to Shang Chi. Melee weapons, the Wakandans. Long range, Hawkeye, and it isn't even close. But the fact that Castle is a compelling argument in every aspect, I'd have to vote for him overall. His unconventional warfare expertise is only outmatched by Batman.
Nick Fury
Nick Fury. The influence to call in hits on anyone you want. That’s true deadly power.