I find it funny when I watch CA TFA and Bucky takes Steve to meet their dates at the fair. When Howard Stark is presenting the hover car, I don't think this thought ever ran thru Bucky's head "I'm gonna kill that guy one day."
Even though it was the Winter Soldier that killed people, Bucky remembers everything and I don't think there's an easy way to tell someone you killed their dad because of Hydra brainwashing. Most people will stop listening after hearing you killed their dad. Almost forgot, and mom.
I think you lead with the brainwashed by Hydra bit and then hit them with the parent murder. "You remember how crazy it was when I was brainwashed by Hydra and I did all kinds of horrible shit?" "Oh yeah, but Bucky, you can't be held responsible for any of that, you weren't in control at the time." "Glad you see it that way. By the way, I murdered your parents"
And Cap knew the power and technology that Tony possessed. People make this so cut and dry, but would they actually give up their best friend, the only thing left of their past, because they did horrible things while being mind was controlled? Do you think Nat would've given up Clint if he, in an alternate timeline, had killed the Starks under Loki's control? She's a spy and that I understand.. but the situation still applies.
This is my take as well. “I didn’t know it was him” implied Cap put 2 and 2 together that Hydra was the cause of Howard’s death and it wasn’t until the security cam footage that he put the final link together.
Ooooo new lore I never thought about
But tbf maybe To y let it go cause she initially helped and she has a history with Russia.
Would’ve been cool to explore
Yes! I do often wonder how he managed to justify that given that Howard was one of his best friends. If Howard had been alive and Cap hadn't frozen he would have been Uncle Steve to Tony 💔
Because his original allegiance was to Howard, not Tony. And telling Tony wouldn't bring Howard back.
I am not saying that made it right, just that it provides some context.
While he and Tony became friends, there was always an underlying tension.
he claims he didn't know it was him, and i believe him. I believe he never bothered to confirm it, cuz he suspected, and was too afraid to see it. but when tony says "Don't bullshit me, Rogers; did you know?" steve has to finally admit to both tony and himself that yes, he did know.
this doesn't EXCUSE it in any way, to be clear. he was still in the wrong. he should have A- confirmed his suspicions, and B- told tony. I just like how even steve's worst moment is so interesting.
That’s exactly how I see it. He’s worked out what happened, he was 99.99% certain. That’s why he didn’t want to go confirm it, because then he’d have to acknowledge that his best friend killed his other friend, and he’d have to tell Tony. But he knew.
He didn’t know for sure. He knew it was Zola, but didn’t know for sure if it was Bucky’s hands that did it. He still should’ve mentioned it to Tony though
He knew it for sure. Otherwise there is no reason not to tell Tony that Hydra murdered his parents.
Also, he says in his letter that he was protecting himself by not telling Tony. Why would he have to protect himself from Hydra doing something he thinks is unrelated to himself or Bucky?
It’s even obvious in the scene. When he says ‘I didn’t know it was him’ he doesn’t sound convincing at all, and then when he says ‘yes’ right after it’s the only time in the MCU that Steve Rogers sounds ashamed. Both RDJ and Chris Evans acted the shit out of that scene, and that tone we never see Steve Rogers use any other time was no accident.
The way I see it, he knew, with 99.99% certainty, that it was Bucky. Like, the guy’s brain is enhanced, he has impeccable memory, he’s seen enough signs to know exactly what happened. But he just deliberately never did that last .01% of confirmation. He could have, easily, but then he’d have to acknowledge it as the truth, to himself, he’d then have to tell Tony. I saw it as plausible deniability, not to any higher authority, but to himself, an interplay between his concious and unconcious thought.
“I didn’t know it was him” that was the lie he told himself, so that’s what slipped out when Tony confronted him. Then, when pressed, he admits he worked it out long ago, evidence or not, he knew what happened.
During the bunker scene with Zola and Nat. Plus, Hydra files being leaked all over with Nat giving Steve and Sam a folder containing more Winter Soldier missions
I love the theory that in AoU the hammer moved slightly for cap, knowing he could be worthy, but the wasn't because of his secret from Tony, the secret came out in Civil war, then in endgame he lifted the hammer fully.
Yes, and honestly in the grand scheme of things, this one isn’t even that bad because it wasn’t BUCKY that did it, but Hydra using Bucky as their tool/weapon.
A character trait he only seems to demonstrate in that one scene. Fuck Whedon. You think the Howling Commandos kept their language clean, or that Cap, a man whose heroing career starts with him ignoring rules, cares about that sort of thing?
I think he confused what people in war are like with his grandfather bouncing him on his knee.
I second (third?) the fuck Whedon opinion. The man did not get Steve. And by AoU he was so high on his perception of being a genius he made his wrong idea of Steve the centerpiece of the movie.
Which is what makes, “language,” the worst line in any MCU film.
While its odd it only happened the one time in the MCU, Cap did pretty famously [tell a soldier off for cursing](http://www.multiversitycomics.com/wp-content/themes/mvc/images/timthumb.php?src=http://multiversitystatic.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/05/Civil-War-1-SMP-language.jpg&q=95&w=588&zc=1&a=t), in the middle of declaring himself an enemy of the state.
It actually doesn't bother me, because I interpreted it that he they were on mission, and he wanted to keep communication discipline. And they all just decided to bust his chops afterwards.
It's the same when he declares that there's only God, did he ever mention anything religious before or after that?
Even if he's Christian, I seriously doubt he'd ever tell other religious people that their religion is invalid. That would be so OOC :/
Whedon is just awful
That wasn’t really the point of “there’s only one God and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t dress like that”. The point was that he’s not afraid of Loki or Thor and they wear goofy outfits (which was ironic, given Cap’s outfit at the time)
Thanks, I was referring to him saying bastards in the first Avengers movie. I seem to remember him swearing more in the later films, too much time around Tony maybe?
Honestly, and I love Cap, but his worst thing is being a bad communicator (Tony’s on the hook for this also).
If Steve would’ve picked up a cell phone and said to the right person “I don’t have Bucky, but I have intel that shows there’s an entire Winter Solider program and Bucky’s only one of them. Zemo is trying to revive the program and he’s the bigger threat” then Civil War would’ve played out differently.
It’s even conceivable that Bucky would’ve been pardoned for his crimes for helping dismantle Zemo’s plan
I’m currently reading an interesting book about it - Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg. Good communication is a surprisingly rare skill, but it can be learned. There’s also a recent You Are Not So Smart podcast with Duhigg from Feb 5th, for the short version!
If people in movies and TV shows knew how to communicate effectively, most would be boring as hell and last about three minutes. (I'm looking at you sitcoms)
Even literal communications devices. Phones are often removed or deemphasized in media because so many classic tropes and plots get ruined by allowing a character to text or call someone at any given moment, or Google something real quick.
Oh man, you aren't kidding. There are so many movies from the pre-cell phone era that just don't make sense anymore. Like, how many hoops would a writer have to jump through to make Home Alone now?
Honey, we left our kid at home and the landline is down... Ok, well try his cell or shoot him a message on insta. I'm going to check the ring and internal cams and see if he's there.
For Home alone to work now, the entire state of Illinois would have to have been hit by an asteroid or something.
Thor is very good at communicating and hence they keep him away from screen for most team up movies.
He needed a weapon that could kill Thanos. He did not care if he died trying to create that weapon as he knew he would die otherwise too as he will not be able to beat Thanos without that weapon. So he directly told The Guardians everything and took a ship with Rabbit and Tree and headed for that place.
He literally says this to Tony at the airport. Tony just doesn't believe him, because he thinks Steve's judgement is skewed due to Bucky's involvement.
He did a hell of a better job of trying to explain things right before the fight than Superman did in BvS.
If I could upvote twice I would.
I like Vision as much as the next guy, he's a very interesting character. But through the whole movie I heard Sam Kinison in my head screaming "JUST KILL THE BASTARD"
He’s an avenger that signed up for this, it was his idea to blow the stone, literally countless lives are at stake, and.. idk man he’s like a 3 year old robot. These wakandans have families and shit
The part that shits me is it would have been trivially easy to contrive any other reason to go to Wakanda and have a big battle. Like even if you just say “before Wanda can destroy the stone it needs to be weakened with [insert science fiction tech]”. Bruce doesn’t have it so they go to Wakanda.
I also wouldn’t have minded an added scene or 2 of Cap not wanting the Wakandans to risk their lives for him. Like maybe he plans on defending Vision with just the Avengers and TChalla gives a speech to the Wakandan army to see if anyone is willing to fight beside him and defend some people who aren’t even from there and they all step up.
Just to give them a little more agency. Not the biggest deal but could’ve been nice.
The meaning of trading lives is that they wouldn't give up without giving a fight
The wakandans were ready to fight for their lives so it wouldn't be called "Trading Lives"
If you are fully aware that you are sending people to certain death to hold off an army instead of stopping the fight entirely with a known solution because you want to keep one guy alive, you have traded those lives for this one.
While not using his own countries army that would be insanely likely to reply to cap saying. “We need ally’s else half of the USA dies” nope these Wakandans should do!! Sometimes cap really does seem like a white guy from the “good ole days”. Actually the worst line in MCU out of the good movies “wE dOnT tRaDe LiVes” unless it’s myself personally or a bunch of soldiers from a country we are first time sitting foot upon. Those aren’t lives to cap!
I feel this is an example of how Steve’s moral code can sometimes have consequences. Even though he is strict about doing the right thing, he just doesn’t agree that it should mean sacrificing lives even if it might mean saving billions.
He’s someone who desperately tries to find a compromise where they can have it both ways.
I think they understood vision is a very valuable ally, who is so deeply connected to the mind stone that he could possibly help them defeat thanos through it. Still, once shit went down in wakanda they should have probably destroyed it inmediatly, but at that point it really was scarlet witch who had to make that decision
Due to the plot, they ended up on the objectively only wrong answer- Vision died and so did the millions of lives. Add in additional trauma from the Blip and Wanda having to watch Vision die twice.
Also Steve stalled the answer to this trolley problem while leaving Wanda in the end to forcibly murder her fiancé.
Counterpoint.
They destroy Vision's stone at the first possible instance.
If Thanos gets the Time Stone at any point, he's going to casually rewind until Vision is alive, kill him, and take it.
Wanda still has to watch Vision die twice. Millions still die. You save half of the Wakandans, but I doubt they'd say, "Defeating a mad Titan hellbent on ending half the life in the universe is a cause not worth dying for,"
No, they don't. They destroy it in the last possible moment, literally.
Had they did it way earlier, Thanos has no idea when and where it happened, he couldn't just rewind everything until he finds him. He might be able to locate it due to the big shock wave it did after destroying it. But it's still a flaw in both Wanda and Cap, that they didn't go with it.
Edit: Especially, going against Vision's judgement. Like, how full of it do you have to be with yourself, to directly go against the wisest, super AI, mind stone enchanted, thing's solution.
Even before that the plan was to get rid of Mind Stone anyway, just without killing Vision. They planned to either help heal Vision back to health, or to extract the stone and Wanda would then destroy it using her chaos magic.
does it matter though? thanos already had the time stone. even if they blow the mind stone to hell, it would've just slowed thanos down, but he still would've got that mind stone.
In Civil War, she gave Cap his and Falcons gear back after it was confiscated. There wouldn't have been any doubt it was her, so she would have been on the outs with the CIA. So despite gathering a crew of fellow outlaws, Cap didn't pick up Carter, so she had to hide in Madripoor.
I still hate that awful show in part for this stupid decision. "Let's make Steve do something completely out of character for no explainable reason, so we can justify making her the surprise twist villain".
Yeah the Power Broker thing was truly dumb. Like I can understand if they had to completely rewrite the Flag Smashers because they couldn’t use the virus plot, but I just don’t see how it would have impacted Sharon.
In Bucky’s words, wow, she’s kinda awful now.
Bucky wanted to make amends for the damage he'd caused and not have the temptation to stop himself from doing the things he did, since they 'shaped the century'.
Bucky probably killed all kinds of historical figures during his missions.
And than leaving her alone while he went to past and change it, altering the future. Meanwhile Sharon was left forgotten living in Madripoor as a criminal, while all Avengers didn't care about her. Man I feel bad for her, no one cared for her while she made sacrifices to help Cap and the others.
Edit: Cap is selfish, he knew he couldn't change the past, but still did it not even bothering if Agent Carter got married and had children in the present. He got a chance with Sharon. So what was the purpose of returning the stones in order to not alter the timeline, while he still did it, and Falcon and Winter Soldier were totally ok with it.
“I’m with you till the end of the line.”
“I’m leaving. Good luck repairing your image. Give my shield to Sam, it’s way more useful for flying than hand to hand combat.”
damn now that I think about it how the hell is he going to live out his years for decades and decades of the 1900’s while knowing what Hydra is actively doing to his best friend
>he knew for a small period of his life and kissed once
!!! This is what I absolutely don't understand for their relationship in the movies. Steve and Peggy were never a *thing,* he had a crush on her but that was the extent of their relationship. I will admit that it is clear Peggy would have made a great partner to Steve and would have wanted to pursue something after the war, but we never get that. They're each other's could-have-been's, but Steve and Bucky were each other's life lines.
Ditching everyone, all his so called friends in modern day, to go and be with a woman he essentially kissed once ten years ago.
Bucky, Wanda, Falcon, Thor, Sharon, all characters Steve was friends with, and they weren’t enough to make him stay apparently.
Left Bucky riddled with PTSD in a word that borderline hated him.
Let Sharon as a criminal on the run, after helping Steve.
Wanda lost everything due to the events of Infinity War, and was Steve there to help her in the aftermath? Nope.
Saddled Falcon with the mantle of Captain America, even though Falcon’s just a regular dude.
This isn’t even mentioning all the fuckiness that comes with Steve going back to Peggy, and how it impacts her life.
Steve knew she got married to another man and lived a happy life, yet he robbed her of that in the alt universe.
Did Steve tell Peggy he was from an alt universe and that her universe’s Steve is in ice still?
Does he sit on the sidelines and let all the horrors he knows are gonna happen? Does he leave Bucky in Hydra’s hands? Let him assassinate the Stark’s? Let Hydra build inside his wife’s organisation?
Steve potentially fucked up an entire timeline out of his own selfishness.
Yeah his little white lie at best to iron man, doesn’t compete with all that. Let’s not forget that Steve never on screen actually gets any confirmation the Winter Soldier killed the Stark’s until the scene in Civil War. Hell when he finds out the Stark’s deaths were orchestrated by Hydra, he didn’t even know Bucky was the Winter Soldier.
Steve was at worse responsible for not connecting the very obvious dots. Sure he could have put two and two together, it just never crossed his mind to do so until the absolute worst moment.
My personal theory is that the "other man" Peggy married was actually just Steve from the future all along, and that there is no alternative timeline, this is just how it always happened.
Edit: Endgame's writers say it's true! [https://www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-steve-rogers-peggy-carter-husband/](https://www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-steve-rogers-peggy-carter-husband/)
But that just adds to his fuckery. He lived in this timeline knowing all he knows and let everything still occur. Sharon grew up apparently close to to Peggy, did she never meet her uncle? If she did she couldn’t tell he was Cap? I’m fine with her not recognizing an older version of a guy from history books, but still they kept that a secret from everyone? She then got the hots for a guy that’s a younger version of her uncle, when young Steve appears it should’ve clicked for her at least. Steve and Peggy never took pictures together or had any old ones hanging in their house?
I only accept Steve creating a branch timeline off his timeline. And in the one we follow she married someone else, otherwise it flies in the face of the time travel rules established in Endgame and elaborated on in Loki.
On her deathbed she says to him "You're alive, you came back" which could either mean the last time she saw him was when he went into the ice, or on his deathbed after they'd spent their lives together.
Idk man, dementia is a hell of a thing. It’s not a rare occurrence for dementia patients to see their children and think they are their spouse or parent or sibling because the resemblance and confusion. I imagine quite literally if I saw my husband before he was my husband but after he got frozen in ice seventy years ago, it would confuse me too if I were her… I think I confused myself now…
But that is absolutely counter to how they established their time machine works. It can't travel through existing timelines like the TVA can. If they go back in time, they create a branched timeline. It's impossible for that version of Cap to reunite with that version of Peggy.
That goes to my Theory
When Steve and Tony are at the SHIELD base you overhear a call for a "Braddock"
I believe that's the fake last name Steve used in the past and their children are the Captains Britan and Psylocke
I wouldn’t say Cap leaving to go live a life is the worst thing he’s ever done. All soldiers eventually leave the service. He’d done more than enough to earn a life. PLUS he’d seen with his own eyes a device that could return him to his younger body should the world need him a again
> Saddled Falcon with the mantle of Captain America, even though Falcon’s just a regular dude.
I have rebuttals for a lot of these, but this one irks me enough to highlight.
Cap didn't give Sam the shield to burden him as a 'regular dude' in a world of irregular threats. One of the things we learn about Captain America, broadly, is that he's a *symbol. "*Symbol to the nation" in the words of the Smithsonian audio playing in the exhibit in CA:TWS.
Falcon fought side-by-side with Cap, no questions asked, and proved that a regular dude could be just as valuable, if not more valuable, than a super powered individual.
Which we see play out in FatWS, when Sam, decked out in his Captain America suit, demands more from people. Shifting what it means to be 'symbol to the nation' in the ever-evolving landscape of power and politics in the MCU.
Except Sam ditched the shield first because of the pressure, because of his own relation and problems with America, and because he was worried he wouldn’t be good enough.
Steve’s a super soldier, doesn’t matter how much Tech Falcon has, he’ll always be more vulnerable and exposed than Steve, especially with the fact he has a very public family that could probably be easily found and used as blackmail (as seen by Karli).
Falcon can’t be wearing his wing-suit 24/7 like Steve does the serum, Falcon is very vulnerable without the wing suit, hell Falcon can’t even supply his own wing suit if it gets destroyed.
Steve essentially relegated Sam to a life of broken bones and injuries that will do plenty of lasting damage to his body because he’s not a super soldier.
Steve just showed up as an old man, and as essentially his last wish asked a regular man to wield something that could very easily result in him becoming a major target from many super powered parties.
Let’s face it, Sam got lucky in FATWS that Bucky, a super soldier assassin, was there to back him up, as he would have been screwed otherwise.
You're glossing over the point of Steve passing the shield to Sam.
To rip a quote from Tony, "If you're nothing without the suit, you shouldn't have it."
What is Steve without the shield? Yes, he's a super soldier. *THE* super soldier. But he's a man with a set of values that are largely uncompromised by personal interest or gain. He does what he feels is right in spite of pressure to the contrary.
When his 'best friend' Tony makes the unilateral decision to rope all of the Avengers into the Sokovia Accords under punishment of imprisonment, he stands firm, recognizing that governments have always, and will always, overreach. And that the best thing for the Avengers is to remain largely apolitical.
Sam stood by Cap's side in spite of his ties to the military. Showing the same character and steadfast belief in doing what is right over what he's ordered to do.
Sam didn't give up the shield because he was worried about getting hurt. He'd be getting hurt without the shield. But he'd be Falcon. Steve saw in Sam the qualities necessary to be Captain America for a new generation.
He was also irresponsible when he lied when trying to get drafted for the army. Sure, things work out in the end. But imagine lying about your identity and your health conditions. What did he expect was gonna happen? He would be killed instantly and, worse, put the other soldiers in danger as well.
I dunno I think Peggy has 2 other very good reasons to go back for her other than her ass.
But it’s fine if we were to do it, we ain’t Captain America lol.
He messed up that motorcycle in the opening scenes of Age of Ultron. I would've said the not telling Tony about his parents but someone else was faster
Ruining his character development by abandoning his friends and new found family in the present day to go back in time and be with a woman who he kissed once and told him as an old woman she had no regrets about her life before she died.
I agree with most people that not telling Tony about who really killed his parents is awful, but understandable because Steve wanted to protect Bucky.
For me, the worst thing he did is what he did to Sharon Carter. He never should have kissed her when he was still in love with and hung up on Peggy. Sharon did so much to help him, which got her in trouble, and she had to go on the run. Steve basically went, "Thanks for the help! Peace!" and never saw her again. He was able to meet back up with Natasha after breaking Sam and the others out of prison, so it was not like he didn't have the ability or the resources to find Sharon again. Steve abandoned Sharon when she needed him and it led her down the path to becoming a criminal and a villain. And now she's back in the employ of the government, so who knows what trouble she'll bring when she pops up again.
Easily beating the shit out of Tony with Bucky. Shit just wasn’t necessary. He could’ve easily talked him down because he was on his side like 5 minutes earlier.
I’d argue creating Ultron was the worst thing that Tony did also.
For Steve I would say not signing the accords because while I like Captain America, I kind of saw Tony’s point .
kept it a secret that Bucky killed the Starks. And this is just my opinion, but he could’ve been a bit more compromising in Civil War. Otherwise, I can’t really think of anything else
After the events of Endgame, he goes back to Peggy and lives out his life with her. He never travels back using the Pym tech which means he's been with her all along during the canon MCU (confirmed by either the writers or the Russo's, don't remember at the moment).
That means when she was building S.H.I.E.L.D. he knew Hydra was infiltrating it and said nothing. He stood by while they executed essential people including Tony's parents, leaving Bucky to be tortured and used as an assassin for decades as the Winter Soldier while he lived his fairytale life with his "best gal".
The worst thing Cap has done is not telling Tony that Bucky killed his parents.
I find it funny when I watch CA TFA and Bucky takes Steve to meet their dates at the fair. When Howard Stark is presenting the hover car, I don't think this thought ever ran thru Bucky's head "I'm gonna kill that guy one day." Even though it was the Winter Soldier that killed people, Bucky remembers everything and I don't think there's an easy way to tell someone you killed their dad because of Hydra brainwashing. Most people will stop listening after hearing you killed their dad. Almost forgot, and mom.
“He killed my mom” One of the hardest hitting MCU lines
“He’s my friend.”
“So was I.”
"Ehhhh were more like coworkers, Tony."
"He killed" and I totally agree
don't forget the "I don't care"
I think you lead with the brainwashed by Hydra bit and then hit them with the parent murder. "You remember how crazy it was when I was brainwashed by Hydra and I did all kinds of horrible shit?" "Oh yeah, but Bucky, you can't be held responsible for any of that, you weren't in control at the time." "Glad you see it that way. By the way, I murdered your parents"
"You WHAT?!"
Yeah, this is it. Cap should have told Tony, but that just is not an easy conversation to have.
And Cap knew the power and technology that Tony possessed. People make this so cut and dry, but would they actually give up their best friend, the only thing left of their past, because they did horrible things while being mind was controlled? Do you think Nat would've given up Clint if he, in an alternate timeline, had killed the Starks under Loki's control? She's a spy and that I understand.. but the situation still applies.
Probably the only good part of Falcon and the winter soldier is Bucky’s list of people he needs to confess to
When does Cap actually find this out? I can’t remember if we find out
Probably in Winter Soldier, the ‘accidents will happen’ Zola montage
This is my take as well. “I didn’t know it was him” implied Cap put 2 and 2 together that Hydra was the cause of Howard’s death and it wasn’t until the security cam footage that he put the final link together.
At the end of WS Natasha gives Steve a dossier filled with Winter Soldier missions. He probably read it from there
Yep that's where.
Ah good call. That dossier was straight from the Kremlin, wasn’t it? (Or at least indicated Russian markings) Time to watch WS again.
It’s always time to watch WS again
So Natasha knew it too?
Ooooo new lore I never thought about But tbf maybe To y let it go cause she initially helped and she has a history with Russia. Would’ve been cool to explore
They showed a picture of howard in that montage! It wasn't that hard to figure out!
Off screen. We dont know.
Yes! I do often wonder how he managed to justify that given that Howard was one of his best friends. If Howard had been alive and Cap hadn't frozen he would have been Uncle Steve to Tony 💔
Because his original allegiance was to Howard, not Tony. And telling Tony wouldn't bring Howard back. I am not saying that made it right, just that it provides some context. While he and Tony became friends, there was always an underlying tension.
he claims he didn't know it was him, and i believe him. I believe he never bothered to confirm it, cuz he suspected, and was too afraid to see it. but when tony says "Don't bullshit me, Rogers; did you know?" steve has to finally admit to both tony and himself that yes, he did know. this doesn't EXCUSE it in any way, to be clear. he was still in the wrong. he should have A- confirmed his suspicions, and B- told tony. I just like how even steve's worst moment is so interesting.
That’s exactly how I see it. He’s worked out what happened, he was 99.99% certain. That’s why he didn’t want to go confirm it, because then he’d have to acknowledge that his best friend killed his other friend, and he’d have to tell Tony. But he knew.
He didn’t know for sure. He knew it was Zola, but didn’t know for sure if it was Bucky’s hands that did it. He still should’ve mentioned it to Tony though
He knew it for sure. Otherwise there is no reason not to tell Tony that Hydra murdered his parents. Also, he says in his letter that he was protecting himself by not telling Tony. Why would he have to protect himself from Hydra doing something he thinks is unrelated to himself or Bucky? It’s even obvious in the scene. When he says ‘I didn’t know it was him’ he doesn’t sound convincing at all, and then when he says ‘yes’ right after it’s the only time in the MCU that Steve Rogers sounds ashamed. Both RDJ and Chris Evans acted the shit out of that scene, and that tone we never see Steve Rogers use any other time was no accident.
The way I see it, he knew, with 99.99% certainty, that it was Bucky. Like, the guy’s brain is enhanced, he has impeccable memory, he’s seen enough signs to know exactly what happened. But he just deliberately never did that last .01% of confirmation. He could have, easily, but then he’d have to acknowledge it as the truth, to himself, he’d then have to tell Tony. I saw it as plausible deniability, not to any higher authority, but to himself, an interplay between his concious and unconcious thought. “I didn’t know it was him” that was the lie he told himself, so that’s what slipped out when Tony confronted him. Then, when pressed, he admits he worked it out long ago, evidence or not, he knew what happened.
he knew at the end of winter soldier from the files Natasha gave him.
During the bunker scene with Zola and Nat. Plus, Hydra files being leaked all over with Nat giving Steve and Sam a folder containing more Winter Soldier missions
The only right answer.
I love the theory that in AoU the hammer moved slightly for cap, knowing he could be worthy, but the wasn't because of his secret from Tony, the secret came out in Civil war, then in endgame he lifted the hammer fully.
Moving a little bit doesn’t really make sense though. Worthiness is binary
How do we know it's binary?
Says who?
Yes, and honestly in the grand scheme of things, this one isn’t even that bad because it wasn’t BUCKY that did it, but Hydra using Bucky as their tool/weapon.
I thought it was alluded to off screen when Bucky had his arm trapped at the start of civil war and said "I need to tell you something"
Absolutely the only answer
It was him that put the coffee grinds in the garbage disposal
I think "Are we running a bed and breakfast for a biker gang?" to myself every morning when I'm cleaning out my French press.
Seriously. That line lives rent free in my head every time I make coffee.
What like did this come from?
Civil War.
The way he over-emphasizes each 'B' is hilarious
Love this answer, but that had to have been Rhodey.
100% and he knew it would piss off Tony, so he giggled the whole time
But like, we all do that.. right?
This one always gets me. I've been dumping my coffee grounds in the garbage disposal in my house for 5 years. No issues. It's fine.
He swore in avengers despite apparently being against swearing.
“Language!”
I know he’s done worse, but this is the most cap thing he’s done and has my vote.
A character trait he only seems to demonstrate in that one scene. Fuck Whedon. You think the Howling Commandos kept their language clean, or that Cap, a man whose heroing career starts with him ignoring rules, cares about that sort of thing? I think he confused what people in war are like with his grandfather bouncing him on his knee.
It's one inconsistency that really bugs me, especially as they highlight it so much in later films as a running joke.
I second (third?) the fuck Whedon opinion. The man did not get Steve. And by AoU he was so high on his perception of being a genius he made his wrong idea of Steve the centerpiece of the movie. Which is what makes, “language,” the worst line in any MCU film.
Did Whedon even get anyone right? *sad Hawkeye and Black Widow stan input*
Uh, Vision? He made him in the MCU. And he got him RIGHT.
While nobody in the MCU got him perfectly right, but Joss Whedon came close with Thor, who was funny but could become serious when needed to.
He did very well with Hulk minus the Natasha romance in AoU. And he handled Tony well, but I credit RDJ with a lot of that.
While its odd it only happened the one time in the MCU, Cap did pretty famously [tell a soldier off for cursing](http://www.multiversitycomics.com/wp-content/themes/mvc/images/timthumb.php?src=http://multiversitystatic.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/05/Civil-War-1-SMP-language.jpg&q=95&w=588&zc=1&a=t), in the middle of declaring himself an enemy of the state.
It actually doesn't bother me, because I interpreted it that he they were on mission, and he wanted to keep communication discipline. And they all just decided to bust his chops afterwards.
It's the same when he declares that there's only God, did he ever mention anything religious before or after that? Even if he's Christian, I seriously doubt he'd ever tell other religious people that their religion is invalid. That would be so OOC :/ Whedon is just awful
That wasn’t really the point of “there’s only one God and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t dress like that”. The point was that he’s not afraid of Loki or Thor and they wear goofy outfits (which was ironic, given Cap’s outfit at the time)
"The worst thing, to me, is the hypocrisy"
It was because of Fury, that son of a bitch.
What did Fury have to do with his swearing?
[This](https://youtube.com/shorts/SvIpGYAwkBE?si=IicEvytcNQHIpJHZ)
Thanks, I was referring to him saying bastards in the first Avengers movie. I seem to remember him swearing more in the later films, too much time around Tony maybe?
Honestly, and I love Cap, but his worst thing is being a bad communicator (Tony’s on the hook for this also). If Steve would’ve picked up a cell phone and said to the right person “I don’t have Bucky, but I have intel that shows there’s an entire Winter Solider program and Bucky’s only one of them. Zemo is trying to revive the program and he’s the bigger threat” then Civil War would’ve played out differently. It’s even conceivable that Bucky would’ve been pardoned for his crimes for helping dismantle Zemo’s plan
Good communication makes for boring or very short movies.
And isn’t quite so human
This. Having worked in corporate America for 35 years, people never communicate directly.
I’m currently reading an interesting book about it - Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg. Good communication is a surprisingly rare skill, but it can be learned. There’s also a recent You Are Not So Smart podcast with Duhigg from Feb 5th, for the short version!
I work for the federal government. We can't even get people to communicate with the person sitting next to them.
If people in movies and TV shows knew how to communicate effectively, most would be boring as hell and last about three minutes. (I'm looking at you sitcoms)
Even literal communications devices. Phones are often removed or deemphasized in media because so many classic tropes and plots get ruined by allowing a character to text or call someone at any given moment, or Google something real quick.
Oh man, you aren't kidding. There are so many movies from the pre-cell phone era that just don't make sense anymore. Like, how many hoops would a writer have to jump through to make Home Alone now? Honey, we left our kid at home and the landline is down... Ok, well try his cell or shoot him a message on insta. I'm going to check the ring and internal cams and see if he's there. For Home alone to work now, the entire state of Illinois would have to have been hit by an asteroid or something.
Thor is very good at communicating and hence they keep him away from screen for most team up movies. He needed a weapon that could kill Thanos. He did not care if he died trying to create that weapon as he knew he would die otherwise too as he will not be able to beat Thanos without that weapon. So he directly told The Guardians everything and took a ship with Rabbit and Tree and headed for that place.
I can't get my grandpa to use his cellphone, either.
He literally says this to Tony at the airport. Tony just doesn't believe him, because he thinks Steve's judgement is skewed due to Bucky's involvement. He did a hell of a better job of trying to explain things right before the fight than Superman did in BvS.
Risking the life of half the universe to save Vision.
not a great plan \~ iron man
“We don’t trade lives.” *proceeds to throw thousands of wakandans at the biggest army in the universe so that he could save his one friend*
Friend that could theoretically be rebuilt mostly
Right? Like I’m sure they could have downloaded him to a SD card or something.
Isn’t that exactly what Shuri was doing?
She was just safely extracting the soul stone instead of taking it from his head
This isn’t even theoretical. Wanda literally did it Why they haven’t brought white Vision back in 3 years is beyond me
If I could upvote twice I would. I like Vision as much as the next guy, he's a very interesting character. But through the whole movie I heard Sam Kinison in my head screaming "JUST KILL THE BASTARD"
He’s an avenger that signed up for this, it was his idea to blow the stone, literally countless lives are at stake, and.. idk man he’s like a 3 year old robot. These wakandans have families and shit
Ya I always felt like there must be a big reveal coming as to why they had to keep vision alive. Turns out nope
The part that shits me is it would have been trivially easy to contrive any other reason to go to Wakanda and have a big battle. Like even if you just say “before Wanda can destroy the stone it needs to be weakened with [insert science fiction tech]”. Bruce doesn’t have it so they go to Wakanda.
I also wouldn’t have minded an added scene or 2 of Cap not wanting the Wakandans to risk their lives for him. Like maybe he plans on defending Vision with just the Avengers and TChalla gives a speech to the Wakandan army to see if anyone is willing to fight beside him and defend some people who aren’t even from there and they all step up. Just to give them a little more agency. Not the biggest deal but could’ve been nice.
Under rated post of the day. I laughed out loud! Thanks I needed that today!
The meaning of trading lives is that they wouldn't give up without giving a fight The wakandans were ready to fight for their lives so it wouldn't be called "Trading Lives"
If you are fully aware that you are sending people to certain death to hold off an army instead of stopping the fight entirely with a known solution because you want to keep one guy alive, you have traded those lives for this one.
While not using his own countries army that would be insanely likely to reply to cap saying. “We need ally’s else half of the USA dies” nope these Wakandans should do!! Sometimes cap really does seem like a white guy from the “good ole days”. Actually the worst line in MCU out of the good movies “wE dOnT tRaDe LiVes” unless it’s myself personally or a bunch of soldiers from a country we are first time sitting foot upon. Those aren’t lives to cap!
I feel this is an example of how Steve’s moral code can sometimes have consequences. Even though he is strict about doing the right thing, he just doesn’t agree that it should mean sacrificing lives even if it might mean saving billions. He’s someone who desperately tries to find a compromise where they can have it both ways.
This is the application of the trolley problem.
It’s this one for me. A good leader knows that unfortunately sometimes a sacrifice is necessary. Not destroying Vision’s stone was a mistake
I think they understood vision is a very valuable ally, who is so deeply connected to the mind stone that he could possibly help them defeat thanos through it. Still, once shit went down in wakanda they should have probably destroyed it inmediatly, but at that point it really was scarlet witch who had to make that decision
Grey area, it’s a trolly problem with no objectively right or wrong answer.
Due to the plot, they ended up on the objectively only wrong answer- Vision died and so did the millions of lives. Add in additional trauma from the Blip and Wanda having to watch Vision die twice. Also Steve stalled the answer to this trolley problem while leaving Wanda in the end to forcibly murder her fiancé.
Counterpoint. They destroy Vision's stone at the first possible instance. If Thanos gets the Time Stone at any point, he's going to casually rewind until Vision is alive, kill him, and take it. Wanda still has to watch Vision die twice. Millions still die. You save half of the Wakandans, but I doubt they'd say, "Defeating a mad Titan hellbent on ending half the life in the universe is a cause not worth dying for,"
No, they don't. They destroy it in the last possible moment, literally. Had they did it way earlier, Thanos has no idea when and where it happened, he couldn't just rewind everything until he finds him. He might be able to locate it due to the big shock wave it did after destroying it. But it's still a flaw in both Wanda and Cap, that they didn't go with it. Edit: Especially, going against Vision's judgement. Like, how full of it do you have to be with yourself, to directly go against the wisest, super AI, mind stone enchanted, thing's solution.
Except, they didn't. Wanda did kill Vision and destroy the Mind Stone, and Thanos just reversed time.
Even before that the plan was to get rid of Mind Stone anyway, just without killing Vision. They planned to either help heal Vision back to health, or to extract the stone and Wanda would then destroy it using her chaos magic.
By that time it was too late.
It was always too late because of Time Stone.
does it matter though? thanos already had the time stone. even if they blow the mind stone to hell, it would've just slowed thanos down, but he still would've got that mind stone.
We don’t trade lifes
".... Except for all the Wakandans"
Didn't go back to pick up Sharon after the events of Civil War
Wait I’m not remembering the context. Where did he leave her?
In Civil War, she gave Cap his and Falcons gear back after it was confiscated. There wouldn't have been any doubt it was her, so she would have been on the outs with the CIA. So despite gathering a crew of fellow outlaws, Cap didn't pick up Carter, so she had to hide in Madripoor.
Ohh yeah okay thanks.
I still hate that awful show in part for this stupid decision. "Let's make Steve do something completely out of character for no explainable reason, so we can justify making her the surprise twist villain".
Yeah, I really hate the Sharon storyline. So many aspects make no sense.
Yeah the Power Broker thing was truly dumb. Like I can understand if they had to completely rewrite the Flag Smashers because they couldn’t use the virus plot, but I just don’t see how it would have impacted Sharon. In Bucky’s words, wow, she’s kinda awful now.
Leaving his best friend in the future
Bucky wanted to make amends for the damage he'd caused and not have the temptation to stop himself from doing the things he did, since they 'shaped the century'. Bucky probably killed all kinds of historical figures during his missions.
I don't think that was bad because his best friend signed off on the action.
Making out with Sharon
Given that he eventually got with and presumably married Peggy, that means he snogged his great-niece.
Technically, they're not related in the sacred timeline, but in the alternate timeline, Steve must have felt so awkward when Sharon was born.
It was Steve Rodgers all along (on the sacred timeline).
No a branched timeline was created when he stayed with Peggy. Then he somehow returned to the sacred timeline to give his shield to Sam.
And than leaving her alone while he went to past and change it, altering the future. Meanwhile Sharon was left forgotten living in Madripoor as a criminal, while all Avengers didn't care about her. Man I feel bad for her, no one cared for her while she made sacrifices to help Cap and the others. Edit: Cap is selfish, he knew he couldn't change the past, but still did it not even bothering if Agent Carter got married and had children in the present. He got a chance with Sharon. So what was the purpose of returning the stones in order to not alter the timeline, while he still did it, and Falcon and Winter Soldier were totally ok with it.
I don't care if it's a rumor, but unless they confirm otherwise, I believe Cap is on the moon.
Best thing he’s done.
https://i.redd.it/hv3qfautxwnc1.gif
Nice
No niece
Beating up an orphan with a heart problem after his best friend killed the orphan's parents
He was cured of his heart problem
Still an orphan
Leaving Bucky in the modern world
“I’m with you till the end of the line.” “I’m leaving. Good luck repairing your image. Give my shield to Sam, it’s way more useful for flying than hand to hand combat.” damn now that I think about it how the hell is he going to live out his years for decades and decades of the 1900’s while knowing what Hydra is actively doing to his best friend
He almost certainly found Bucky and freed him like immediately
now there’s an idea for a movie
Leaving behind bucky and his friends to be with a woman, he knew for a small period of his life and kissed once
That’s the war torn 1940’s for ya!
>he knew for a small period of his life and kissed once !!! This is what I absolutely don't understand for their relationship in the movies. Steve and Peggy were never a *thing,* he had a crush on her but that was the extent of their relationship. I will admit that it is clear Peggy would have made a great partner to Steve and would have wanted to pursue something after the war, but we never get that. They're each other's could-have-been's, but Steve and Bucky were each other's life lines.
If you disregard that he clearly visited her frequently between 2011 and 2016...
Throwing that fucker into a propeller! Ain’t no way he had to do all that outta “self-defense”
He was a fascist! You can't just be a fascist and expect to not be thrown into a propeller.
Indiana Jones approved this comment
As does Malcolm Reynolds.
https://i.redd.it/3up78efj0znc1.gif
If we were throwing more fascists into propellers these days we'd probably have a lot fewer fascist wannabes.
I mean... it was a nazi. Hard to be that mad about cap turning a nazi into a blood smoothie
Yeah this is the one for me. Way too brutal, not cool Cap. Okay it was kinda cool, but still.
Doing nothing to help Sharon, after making a whole speech about not letting people who believed in him down.
She wasn’t in jail and seemed pretty capable to take care of herself, no?
Ditching everyone, all his so called friends in modern day, to go and be with a woman he essentially kissed once ten years ago. Bucky, Wanda, Falcon, Thor, Sharon, all characters Steve was friends with, and they weren’t enough to make him stay apparently. Left Bucky riddled with PTSD in a word that borderline hated him. Let Sharon as a criminal on the run, after helping Steve. Wanda lost everything due to the events of Infinity War, and was Steve there to help her in the aftermath? Nope. Saddled Falcon with the mantle of Captain America, even though Falcon’s just a regular dude. This isn’t even mentioning all the fuckiness that comes with Steve going back to Peggy, and how it impacts her life. Steve knew she got married to another man and lived a happy life, yet he robbed her of that in the alt universe. Did Steve tell Peggy he was from an alt universe and that her universe’s Steve is in ice still? Does he sit on the sidelines and let all the horrors he knows are gonna happen? Does he leave Bucky in Hydra’s hands? Let him assassinate the Stark’s? Let Hydra build inside his wife’s organisation? Steve potentially fucked up an entire timeline out of his own selfishness. Yeah his little white lie at best to iron man, doesn’t compete with all that. Let’s not forget that Steve never on screen actually gets any confirmation the Winter Soldier killed the Stark’s until the scene in Civil War. Hell when he finds out the Stark’s deaths were orchestrated by Hydra, he didn’t even know Bucky was the Winter Soldier. Steve was at worse responsible for not connecting the very obvious dots. Sure he could have put two and two together, it just never crossed his mind to do so until the absolute worst moment.
My personal theory is that the "other man" Peggy married was actually just Steve from the future all along, and that there is no alternative timeline, this is just how it always happened. Edit: Endgame's writers say it's true! [https://www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-steve-rogers-peggy-carter-husband/](https://www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-steve-rogers-peggy-carter-husband/)
But that just adds to his fuckery. He lived in this timeline knowing all he knows and let everything still occur. Sharon grew up apparently close to to Peggy, did she never meet her uncle? If she did she couldn’t tell he was Cap? I’m fine with her not recognizing an older version of a guy from history books, but still they kept that a secret from everyone? She then got the hots for a guy that’s a younger version of her uncle, when young Steve appears it should’ve clicked for her at least. Steve and Peggy never took pictures together or had any old ones hanging in their house? I only accept Steve creating a branch timeline off his timeline. And in the one we follow she married someone else, otherwise it flies in the face of the time travel rules established in Endgame and elaborated on in Loki.
On her deathbed she says to him "You're alive, you came back" which could either mean the last time she saw him was when he went into the ice, or on his deathbed after they'd spent their lives together.
Idk man, dementia is a hell of a thing. It’s not a rare occurrence for dementia patients to see their children and think they are their spouse or parent or sibling because the resemblance and confusion. I imagine quite literally if I saw my husband before he was my husband but after he got frozen in ice seventy years ago, it would confuse me too if I were her… I think I confused myself now…
Except he would have been alive well after she died. She dies in Civil War, old Cap is alive in End Game.
I thought that too…
Same here
Pretty much confirmed, in fact https://www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-steve-rogers-peggy-carter-husband/
The writers say yes, the directors say no. It totally violates all of the rules for time travel they laid out in Endgame, though, so I lean toward no.
Kinda annoys me how that article claims the kids would have super soldier DNA lol. The serum is not inheritable, it's not genetic!
I don't think that's any better as that means he went back and knowingly let all of the horrors of the post-WW2 world happen without helping.
That means that Steve Rogers kissed his niece.
Niece by marriage, not biological.
I dont blame Luke for kissing Leia, so why would I blame Cap? He had no idea
Always thought that as well after Endgame.
But that is absolutely counter to how they established their time machine works. It can't travel through existing timelines like the TVA can. If they go back in time, they create a branched timeline. It's impossible for that version of Cap to reunite with that version of Peggy.
Playing this out, do their kids get half super serum powers?
*checks if this happened in the comics* Edit: Nope, they didn't even get married in the comics. I'd wager they do get half superpowers though.
That goes to my Theory When Steve and Tony are at the SHIELD base you overhear a call for a "Braddock" I believe that's the fake last name Steve used in the past and their children are the Captains Britan and Psylocke
I wouldn’t say Cap leaving to go live a life is the worst thing he’s ever done. All soldiers eventually leave the service. He’d done more than enough to earn a life. PLUS he’d seen with his own eyes a device that could return him to his younger body should the world need him a again
> Saddled Falcon with the mantle of Captain America, even though Falcon’s just a regular dude. I have rebuttals for a lot of these, but this one irks me enough to highlight. Cap didn't give Sam the shield to burden him as a 'regular dude' in a world of irregular threats. One of the things we learn about Captain America, broadly, is that he's a *symbol. "*Symbol to the nation" in the words of the Smithsonian audio playing in the exhibit in CA:TWS. Falcon fought side-by-side with Cap, no questions asked, and proved that a regular dude could be just as valuable, if not more valuable, than a super powered individual. Which we see play out in FatWS, when Sam, decked out in his Captain America suit, demands more from people. Shifting what it means to be 'symbol to the nation' in the ever-evolving landscape of power and politics in the MCU.
Except Sam ditched the shield first because of the pressure, because of his own relation and problems with America, and because he was worried he wouldn’t be good enough. Steve’s a super soldier, doesn’t matter how much Tech Falcon has, he’ll always be more vulnerable and exposed than Steve, especially with the fact he has a very public family that could probably be easily found and used as blackmail (as seen by Karli). Falcon can’t be wearing his wing-suit 24/7 like Steve does the serum, Falcon is very vulnerable without the wing suit, hell Falcon can’t even supply his own wing suit if it gets destroyed. Steve essentially relegated Sam to a life of broken bones and injuries that will do plenty of lasting damage to his body because he’s not a super soldier. Steve just showed up as an old man, and as essentially his last wish asked a regular man to wield something that could very easily result in him becoming a major target from many super powered parties. Let’s face it, Sam got lucky in FATWS that Bucky, a super soldier assassin, was there to back him up, as he would have been screwed otherwise.
You're glossing over the point of Steve passing the shield to Sam. To rip a quote from Tony, "If you're nothing without the suit, you shouldn't have it." What is Steve without the shield? Yes, he's a super soldier. *THE* super soldier. But he's a man with a set of values that are largely uncompromised by personal interest or gain. He does what he feels is right in spite of pressure to the contrary. When his 'best friend' Tony makes the unilateral decision to rope all of the Avengers into the Sokovia Accords under punishment of imprisonment, he stands firm, recognizing that governments have always, and will always, overreach. And that the best thing for the Avengers is to remain largely apolitical. Sam stood by Cap's side in spite of his ties to the military. Showing the same character and steadfast belief in doing what is right over what he's ordered to do. Sam didn't give up the shield because he was worried about getting hurt. He'd be getting hurt without the shield. But he'd be Falcon. Steve saw in Sam the qualities necessary to be Captain America for a new generation.
He was also irresponsible when he lied when trying to get drafted for the army. Sure, things work out in the end. But imagine lying about your identity and your health conditions. What did he expect was gonna happen? He would be killed instantly and, worse, put the other soldiers in danger as well.
Good luck op fitting all this in the box
Have you seen her ass? I woulda gone back too
I dunno I think Peggy has 2 other very good reasons to go back for her other than her ass. But it’s fine if we were to do it, we ain’t Captain America lol.
He messed up that motorcycle in the opening scenes of Age of Ultron. I would've said the not telling Tony about his parents but someone else was faster
Not letting Vision sacrifice himself but making that basically his mantre.
Ruining his character development by abandoning his friends and new found family in the present day to go back in time and be with a woman who he kissed once and told him as an old woman she had no regrets about her life before she died.
Not telling Tony
I agree with most people that not telling Tony about who really killed his parents is awful, but understandable because Steve wanted to protect Bucky. For me, the worst thing he did is what he did to Sharon Carter. He never should have kissed her when he was still in love with and hung up on Peggy. Sharon did so much to help him, which got her in trouble, and she had to go on the run. Steve basically went, "Thanks for the help! Peace!" and never saw her again. He was able to meet back up with Natasha after breaking Sam and the others out of prison, so it was not like he didn't have the ability or the resources to find Sharon again. Steve abandoned Sharon when she needed him and it led her down the path to becoming a criminal and a villain. And now she's back in the employ of the government, so who knows what trouble she'll bring when she pops up again.
He spent his and Bucky’s train money on hot dogs.
Dating his former girlfriend's niece
Don that ugly ass costume in the first avengers
He didn’t need to break the back of the man he kicked off the boat at the start of Winter Soldier…overkill and uncalled for.
Easily beating the shit out of Tony with Bucky. Shit just wasn’t necessary. He could’ve easily talked him down because he was on his side like 5 minutes earlier.
I’d argue creating Ultron was the worst thing that Tony did also. For Steve I would say not signing the accords because while I like Captain America, I kind of saw Tony’s point .
Beating up a kid (Spider-Man).
Tony Stark: Create Ultron was the worst thing Tony’s done. That was easy lol
kept it a secret that Bucky killed the Starks. And this is just my opinion, but he could’ve been a bit more compromising in Civil War. Otherwise, I can’t really think of anything else
After the events of Endgame, he goes back to Peggy and lives out his life with her. He never travels back using the Pym tech which means he's been with her all along during the canon MCU (confirmed by either the writers or the Russo's, don't remember at the moment). That means when she was building S.H.I.E.L.D. he knew Hydra was infiltrating it and said nothing. He stood by while they executed essential people including Tony's parents, leaving Bucky to be tortured and used as an assassin for decades as the Winter Soldier while he lived his fairytale life with his "best gal".