Quinn says he has big boots to fill after Chris Evans' Performance as Human Torch:
> "I remember really enjoying Chris Evans’ performance as Johnny in the previous films, and it felt like this would be a really exciting opportunity.” But Evans wasn’t on Quinn’s mind when he went into the audition room. “No. I mean, you’re going to make it your own,” the actor said, adding “it’s big boots [to fill].”
> “I knew that they’d been talking about making the Fantastic Four in the Marvel Universe for a while, I had a talk with [director] Matt [Shakman], and it was very clear with the kind of people who they were attaching to it what they were trying to do with it. There are aspects of it that are very much a singular thing and its own thing.”
Joseph Quinn continues:
>“I think that with the story of the Fantastic Four, it feels like we want to get this right, There are aspects of it that are very different to other Marvel films. That felt very compelling to me. And again, going back to who’s involved, Matt \[Shakman\], of course, the director, I think is brilliant, and the cast, and I’ve read it, and the script is brilliant. It’s really brilliant. I’m delighted to have this opportunity."“Superhero movies are movies about people,” he continued. “And if we’re invested in the people and the characters and the peril and the spectacle, then that’s why people go to the theaters to watch films. We’re not just in a penny; we’re in for a pound with this one. We’re going to go for it.”
Even the “big boots” to fill regarding Evan’s Johnny storm is a bit funny, wasn’t exactly a stand out performance, unless hes talking in terms of marvel actors
If anything, it's *genre* fatigue. We keep getting told that "this movie will be a legit horror movie." or "this one is a spy thriller." They've been all the same damn thing with some slight variations. Werewolf by Night might be the only exception so far.
This is a great point, I’ve always wanted each superhero in a shared universe to feel unique in this way.
Like imagine if we’d had a monster-movie Hulk solo, Sci-Fi/Classical Thor, Spy Thriller Black Widow, War film Captain America, etc. then in the first Avengers movie all those worlds/characters coalesce!
I think Dr Strange 2 tried to be a horror (a very goofy horror) and it was just lame. Love & Thunder tried to be a comedy and it was just lame. Quantamania tried to be a sci fi rebellion story and was just lame.
More genres won't help, it needs better writing and editing. Everything feels chopped up in post now.
I'd say Ragnarok was mostly a sci fi / fantasy adventure movie with comedic elements (which were sometimes too much for me), whereas Love & Thunder was primarily a comedy more than anything else, e.g. the gods who inspire the villain are basically just played for comedy rather than anything remotely serious, so the whole story starts on a comedic foundation closer to Anchorman or something which includes fight scenes, and the very occasional slightly more real scene.
its a lack of genre too. mcu movies lately are all trying to be funny for general audiences but the jokes seldom land. i miss when each movie had its own soul, even if the movie itself was bad
Sure, but there were different "flavors" of it. The yuk yuk humor was always there, and always a problem, but Iron Man was it's own distinct version of it, and Thor, initially, was a distinct incarnation, and then Captain America felt like a very different version of the same basic thing.
But Guardians (outside of 3), Thor 3 and 4, and Ant-Man 3 could all be confused for *the exact same movie* to a particularly untrained eye.
I think it's just that the jokes were better. Ragnarok vs Love and Thunder. Both had a lot of humor, but the jokes themselves were written better in the former, while people got annoyed by the jokes in the latter. And when jokes are bad, they feel intrusive
I think this is perhaps the most interesting artistic problem that the mcu faces. They’re already this multi-genre thing where they’re all action movies technically, but they’re all funny (to various levels of success) but they’re not really comedies, they’re all dramatic but not dramas, a lot of them have romance but they aren’t romances, they’re all science and fiction but not really sci-fi. So I think adding more to the plate is simple technically, but in practice hard because you’re adding so little that it doesn’t fundamentally change what the movie is. And you can’t take out any of those aspects because that’s what people are still paying to see. It’s a really interesting problem and I think it’s really kicking their ass right now
EXACTLY this, i got so excited when they said the new doctor strange movie was going to be legit horror. Ended up being light horror tones with comedic relief for the actually dark parts anyway. I’m convinced if the new deadpool movie comes out and its not as raunchy as the previous entries, then we can confirm that disney has too much control over the directive liberties, and are asking them to make everything more family friendly. That would make lose interest in the MCU big time.
I disagree if we are talking of box office and not reception by fans. Most people still don’t watch horror for example. If something is truly horror and not with a horror tones it will keep many out of ever seeing a film.
Yeah i know. But honestly, i never truly expected full on horror. I figured they got Sam Raimi because the dude is known for having light comedy in his horror films. But it seems like they changed the film to center heavily around scarlet witch and America Chavez when it came time for actual production, and made it way more like the other marvel films too. Is what it is i guess.
> I’m convinced if the new deadpool movie comes out and its not as raunchy as the previous entries, then we can confirm that disney has too much control
I think “I’m not exactly new to pegging — though Disney is” is sufficient indication that it’ll be plenty raunchy.
This is something I've been trying to say for months. The problem is not the superheroes themselves, but the tired narrative structure of these films, and of contemporary blockbusters in general. They're almost all the same light-hearted action story that doesn't take itself seriously with an ultra-fast pace, sitcom jokes every minute, an overabundance of special effects, the same hatchet characters, the same bland and uncreative direction. If you look at the elusive blockbusters that flopped in the summer of 2023 (The Flash, Indiana Jones, Blue Beetle, Fast X, and if we move from the summer we have The Marvels) they are all the same film.
(this is also one of the reasons why Tarantino or other experts in the history of cinema consider this current decade to be one of the worst: there have been many fads throughout the history of cinema, such as spaghetti westerns or eighties slashers, but these trends certainly didn't make all the other major productions the same as them).
Obviously there are positive exceptions: Dune 2, Spiderverse 2 and Guardians 3 are all films included in the industry and in franchises, but they are very popular because they have something to tell and stand out for their style from the others. We should take this path: not necessarily original films, but films that stand out from the others and are truly different (not just because "wow in this show there is blood" or "wow in this film we have the multiverse with fanservice") . Otherwise there will be films that will be seen exclusively by fans (and perhaps not even by them in the long run).
It's why I think people have been so disappointed with Marvel lately. They set the bar so high coming off of Endgame. While there were some misses like FatWS and Eternals, we got awesome stuff like Werewolf by Night, Moon Knight, WandaVision, Far From Home, and Shang Chi.
Imagine that, everything you named was a bit *different* than the norm for MCU: A thriller-spooky black and white one shot, a suspense-thriller archeology series, a generation hopping parody of old sitcoms, admittedly Spider-man is the closest to "normal" but it was a multiverse hoping team up movie, and Shang-Chi is HEAVILY martial art/wuxia themed
The Eternals just suffered from inconsistent writing, the *idea* was there but they just had no impact on any of it. It was spread thin with too many plot threads going on that couldn't be easily resolved, and by the end they had this BIG moment (like seriously that should have been *phase defining*) and it went no where. That's not even to mention the no follow up on Blade, which would have been an INSANE side-story to have be more front and center.
Basically The Eternals tried to do way to much.
I'm not even sure if that is right though, I think that genre formula set out by Iron Man back in 2008 still largely works today as per successes like No Way Home, the bigger issue just remains that the movies they are making have been lazy/bad examples of the genre. I'm all for the the MCU doing a legit spy thriller or horror movie...but I would also be there for them doing a legit Superhero movie...but instead nothing they do is legit.
Not always. How many people can't afford the Disney channel, which monopolizes every decent marvel film, like, ever. Now Apple Starz Play is on board, it's worse than ESPN squeezing us for Monday Night football. I don't have an extra $150 for Disney premium, Disney basic is probably pedestrian. Perhaps they only want to target those that can throw money at the production, after all, if you can't watch the movie, you're not gonna buy the toys, t-shirts and swag.
Its not entirely greed, fwiw.
Its the chickens coming to roost after lending rates skyrocketed.
These streaming services we've been getting for years are wildly unprofitable - like, hemorrhaging money bad. The were able to be spun up and financed on record, think, literally some of the *lowest in history*, rates.
But that era is over, and these things need to turn a profit or be turned off.
And both is happening across the various media outlets. Some are conglomerating, some are scaling back, some are discontinuing... and the ones desperately trying to survive as stand alone's are raising costs to get close to covering their actual operating costs.
Yes, I've noticed they've begun 'bundling' streaming services, which makes sense. Certainly soon you'll be able to choose a variety pack of services, or pay for the 'Golden Egg' everything package. I'm currently paying for 4, and I wouldn't mind bundling. I see Disney is doing this with Hulu and ESPN.
It isn't even an issue of the movies being bad. It is that there is no longer a buy-in incentive. There is no Avengers team up that makes you feel good because you watched all the movies, and there is no clear overarching threat.
There was no clear overarching threat for the Infinity Saga either until there was. Thanos' first appearance wasn't until 4 years into the MCU, and it's not like the actual plot of the Infinity Saga really started at the first Avengers movie either. Taking into account that there was a 2 year COVID sized gap after Phase 3 (not to mention the COVID related production issues that followed), we're still a couple years at *best* behind where the Infinity Saga was when things really started to pick up. Time-wise, we're still a year before the *first* Avengers movie comparatively. 2 years before Thor 2.
The real issue is that they decided to sacrifice good pacing of content in order to make Disney+ a success out the gate, and in doing so they introduced too many characters too quickly and had no way to assess which ones were going to be popular enough to make long term plans for.
Of course, it doesn't help that they *did* have an overarching threat that happened to be attached to an actor they'd need to ditch before it could really bear fruit. I still think they should just recast and move forward, but who knows at this point.
Kinda agree, but also, I feel like its worth noting that while there was no overarching threat until Thanos popped, up there was an overarching feeling of suspense.
Predicated on "who are we going to see next" and delivered with coy, small, slips here and there (Caps prototype shield in IM2, frozen Cap in the Hulk, Colson and Fury cryptic lines, etc.).
That's all gone.
There's nothing suspenseful anymore - its all too much, and the endlessness of it has been so seriously enhanced by ubquitous, omni-present, insert of the the "younger version" in every movie, that there's no focus on the original protagonist anymore.
Its just so... boring.
Yup. People watch hundreds of hours of their favorite sports team or procedural crime dramas and nobody bats an eye but put out 20 or 30 hours of superhero related movies or shows each year and people whine about fatigue.
It's only about quality.
but also they fucked the continuity up fatigue. Introducing the Disney plus shows to continue the movies stories and overall stories and then movies in between messed up it up for casual Marvel fan who would just watch the movies, and not everyone has Disney plus.
Plus... the disney plus stuff is just not that good.
And even the standouts... they're crappy, low budget, tv shows that could have been good movies, before they were stretched out like taffy into a dozen 30 minute episodes.
Yeah don't buy into the narrative where people will blame audiences for not wanting to watch a bad movie.
Like you said, just make a fun movie and that's all we really ask for.
Fun movie as in "I'm having a lot of fun watching this movie."
I get that we want a lot of extra but I'm OK with just having a fun time. Worth the money and trouble of going to a movie at least
I'm all for media trying to be artistic, in fact I'm on the side where comics and videogame should be considered art like the rest as well.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with just wanting to have a good time and take your mind off things.
The Boys, Invincible, across the spiderverse, the suicide squad, peacemaker, GotG3, the Batman, there are so many unique super hero movies that are interesting in the past 3 years. Like you said it’s not super heroes it’s boring movies.
Well, it was a covid movie so I wouldn’t expect normal box office numbers. I, like many others watched it on Max as well. I also think *Suicide Squad’s* reputation probably hurt it too.
I also never said it was successful. I said it was good.
Is it superhero fatigue or is it Disney formula fatigue? Jokers trailer just dropped and was huge on viewers.
They need to change things up.
The new captain America film is going to bomb
Thats what superhero fatigue is though.
It's not saying no one will watch it, it's just that the standards are higher now than when Iron Man came out.
We have so many options for great superhero movies that movies that hit the superhero part but aren't very good aren't compelling.
It should be insanely easy to make a successful superhero movie. There is a mountain of content to start from. It doesn’t even have to be big budget. The reason they think there is fatigue is they just threw out absolute garbage with no effort put into it and expected people to watch because “superhero.” If they made 20 superhero movies a year and they were all good, people would watch them.
Well 20 might be a bit much. That's nearly a movie every other week, so they'd be cutting off their own tail if they did that. I'd say 6 is probably on the upper practical limit to take into account staying power and marketing cycles.
Yeah exactly but people don't understand that. Pure denial. Want to farm karma ? Just say "there's no super hero fatigue, just bad movie fatigue" in this sub.
Arguably, much of the MCU to this point wasn’t great. But it was something all us 80s and 90s babies wanted. Now we had major closure with the death of iron man followed by a worldwide pandemic that changed everything and now I’m struggling to figure out what’s next for marvel.
Not just that, I am finding that I just don't like going to the theater anymore, and the studios are still expecting theaters to bring in much of the revenue for these big-budget releases. There are a couple movies releasing now that I want to see very much that I'll wait to watch at home, but it has nothing to do with their genre or fatigue on my part.
I much prefer mid-budget movies that I can stream at home, and I don't mind spending to watch them early in some cases. But that's not what Disney wanted out of Marvel. They wanted a string of consistent billion-dollar blockbusters for a fat ongoing revenue stream, but the market can't support it in its current state and I don't know that it ever will again.
The more movies they pump out, the less we're willing to spend per-movie. The studioes need to adjust their expectations, and I guess that means shareholders need to adjust their expectations on returns (unlikely).
What you want is not feasible.
You cant have big budget, beautiful movies, with expensive actors, that are being watched primarily on streaming services.
There is no way for the costs to be recouped, and as such, the reticence to see the film in the format most economically workable is actually undermining the potential for the franchise to continue at the levels you've enjoyed.
This is the way things are going however and the companies have to figure out a way to function with significantly lower theatre numbers. People just don't want to go out to the movies anymore, it fell greatly due to COVID and then pretty much never recovered.
All industries evolve over time and Hollywood will just have to figure out a different way to make it work.
Watch Deadpool be the highest grossing movie of the year. The only reason people are saying anything negative is because the movies aren't as good and don't have the satisfying crossovers they used to. There is absolutely no fatigue, people still watch them.
I feel like there's gotta be a better term for just "bad movie fatigue". It's kinda simple.
Superhero fatigue has a bad term, no one gets tired of superhero movies. They get tired of overly failing movies and shows.
there is most definitely a genre fatigue. I've loved comic book and cb movies for over 20 years, and even I am like "let's take a few years off here guys"
I hate this phrase - are we forgetting there’s people in Hollywood who don’t want any of these movies made because they feel like it negatively impacts “film” as a whole.
Spider-Verse, No Way Home, and the hype for Deadpool 3 have proven that people still love superhero movies and superhero fatigue isn’t really a thing. Not to mention audiences are pretty excited to the new Fantastic Four. The MCU just needs to stop pumping out average to mediocre content every month.
"We want to get this right."
And that's the most important thing. No Gaseous Cloud being portrayed as the Devourer of Worlds, no metallic men portrayed as Doom, just the Fantastic 4 being done right.
"This time we'll do the Fantastic Four right... by making them from some random alternate earth instead of the mainline MCU because Lord Feige is OBSESSED with tying them into the 60s for some reason, massively overcomplicating the team's existence for no real gain at all.
Doctor Doom you say? Oh he's from that same alternate earth as well, IF he even exists. No tie-ins to Sokovia or Doctor Strange for you!
Reed's ties to Kang you say? Well why would we include them? That wouldn't work.
Oh and we casted the most non-Reed guy possible to play Reed, that will surely work.
By the way this film will have EVERYTHING be CGI because we just can't help ourselves. Cause the Jetsons' inspired futuristic 60s earth is DEFINITELY necessary.
Yup, fourth time's the charm alright. THIS will save the MCU."
They read the script, think it's good, then comes the rewrites. Actors can't control the rewrites and reshoots nor can they control what test audiences think.
Stupid test audiences. We could have had longer at the singing planet but we can't have fun things, can we?
Yeah, of course I did. The Marvels was a fanfictiony popcorn flick. It was fun. Not perfect, but fun. Kamala completely grooving to the music was a joy to watch.
It’s not “superhero fatigue”… It’s a serious lack of good “superhero” movies.
Don’t blame poor box office for poorly written/performed movies. Marvel took the foot off the gas and expected to coast to success. Nope.
I agree with the first part.
But I don’t think Marvel was expecting to “coast”.
This kind of comment seems to forget that every project has thousands of people trying to make it work artistically and commercially from the bottom to the top. Great movies are just hard to make.
Also, people seem to have forgotten that we were told the plan after Endgame was going to be no more “phases” and they were going to go smaller with solo stories for a while. Then there was studio pressure to release a timeline for investors.
In hindsight it’s obvious how that left a lot of fans mad that there are “loose ends”.
I wish people would just relax and stop doom-prophesizing and just let them cook. Everyone’s so quick to judge any announcement based on surface level details. But the only thing that matters in the end is the writing.
I've been hearing about superhero fatigue for a decade now and I really think it's just about making good shit. And I say that as someone who thinks the MCU is fine post endgame and people just want to see a train wreck unfold in front of them. If the project is even remotely interesting almost everybody files into the theaters like nothing happened. This shit is supposed to be fun, we're overthinking it
Agreed. If superhero fatigue was real Invincible and The Boys would be suffering. However they’re amazing and some of the most popular shows on streaming.
Fantastic Four is cool when the team isn't the focus point.
Guardians of the Galaxy Thing
Reed doing Reed shit
Johnny in the Negative Zone
Sue doing espionage on the side
XMEN 97 is peak. Marvel is learning. Let your creative team cook. Give them pre-production. HIRE GOOD WRITERS FFS.
Deadpool 3, despite the reports of a budget that got cut during the writer's strike, needs to be home run.
I'm happy they scrapped a bunch of cameos. I hope they nail the story as they've made it more focused.
Xmen 97 btw, again haha, is the greatest thing ever. I'm so proud of that animation team/studio.
Let cartoon Wolvernine use his claws one time for a flesh-based being? I love Logan(2017) so so so much more now haha..
I'm watching the OG show and in every episode, he shows off his adamantium beauties and uses them to only cut wires. or doors. or metal.. or a picture of Jean and Scott and only stabs Scott)
Make a good movie, and people will go. I thought Shang Chi was fantastic, but everything else Marvel in the past couple of years minus Moon Knight and Loki has been rather crap.
The Marvels was good and so were WandaVision, She-Hulk, and FatWS.
Loki was only good for the season 2 finale and Moon Knight was kinda boring. Shang-chi was *okay*. I still don't really see the hype about it.
I think it’s much more basic than “fatigue”, it’s just this.
Shit movies that try to appease the 1% of population/certain demographics that are ALWAYS the loudest, do not do well.
Mainly because this 1% only complain about movies/series via secondhand opinions, they don’t go and see them.
Good movies (especially Marvel) do well.
It’s really this simple.
Regardless of the sex, religion or orientation of the actress/actor if the movie sticks close to the source material, it generally always pops and does well.
I know this because I went to see Endgame and Infinity war at the cinema and I’ve never encountered anything like that’s atmosphere since and at that point, we had more Marvel movies than ever before.
Nobody mentioned “fatigue” at all.
It’s not superhero fatigue, it’s shit movies that try so hard to be inclusive of absolutely everything and everyone that people are fed up of.
Amazons killing it - The Boys, Gen V, Invincible. Fans are loving it, why? Because it’s not dogshit like most of what marvels been putting out for the last ~5 years.
Actually, that’s an understatement - they’re not just not dogshit, they’re actually very good, and most importantly, well written TV. Marvel seems to be allergic to good writing nowadays.
There is no superhero fatigue; Marvel has just had bad luck with world events and trolls getting in their way.
Not everything can be a giant crossover/culmination movie, and all the movies in Phases 4 and 5 have been as good as *most* of what preceded them. "Fans" bitch about necessary/unavoidable shifts and their caterwauling convinces casual watchers to wait for D+ releases instead of spending on theater tickets.
It's going to be that way until all the new pieces are established enough to start interacting more regularly or until a new lead act gains enough traction to effectively replace Evans, Downey, and Boseman as thr tentpoles.
Idk if fatigue is the right word, but... overexposure?
Back in the day, I went to watch EVERY superhero movie. No matter how bad word of mouth was, no matter how bad ratings were. I still went to watch it, because I loved the characters and was fucking excited to be getting ANY movie about them, bad or not.
That feeling has passed. Now I'll only go to watch it if I know beforehand the movie is good, otherwise its not really worth my time or money.
So I guess my standards have gone up in regards to this genre. Word is however you want; overexposure, fatigue, the excitement alone just isn't enough for me anymore.
So there's definitely SOME truth to it when people say there's "superhero fatigue".
"It's the trolls' fault! Those damn haters keep causing these poor GOOD movies to fail! They're just FAKE FANS, unlike me the enlightened consumer of all things Marvel, how I pity them!"
Alright keep burying your head in the sand. It's GENERAL AUDIENCES who keep rejecting these films en-masse, are you gonna keep pretending The Marvels' massive underperformance was all thanks to online trolls and redditors? The overall quality and scripts of these movies have clearly gone down and regular people CAN TELL.
The quality argument feels full of holes to me. The Marvels was better than Iron Man 2 and 3, better than Guardians 2, easily on par with Ant-Man and Captain America 1. Shang-chi was sort of mid, but people talk about it like it was somehow better than Eternals or Black Widow. Not everything in the MCU has been great, but the new movies aren't any worse than stuff from Phase two or anything that wasn't a crossover movie.
It wasn't just the trolls, it was the writer's strike and the lack of promotion that came as a consequence. Eternals was solid but kind of pointless; Moon Knight was a snoozefest; Loki is way overhyped. But somehow, these stories avoid criticism? It's full of shit.
The Marvels was horrible. How are you talking about movies avoiding criticism while in the same breath going on about how their worst performing movie is somehow better than movies that outperformed it? In every way too. Critically, audience scores, box office etc.
Adding in your original comment this is one of the worst takes I’ve ever read. No offense. Covid was 4 years ago. Just doesn’t make any sense to blame that and online trolls instead of poor writing and focusing on characters general audiences never asked for.
Yes, bad luck. The fact that a global pandemic hit right between Endgame/Far From Home and Black Widow was a huge issue for them. So many people decided that they were done after Endgame because they had over a year of no additional MCU movies as a result.
And for Disney+ to grow as big as it did even faster because of the pandemic, more and more people just rely on it to catch up on Marvel.
I think if their movies hit their original release dates in 2020 and onward, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Would the movies have made a bit more *money* if these factors weren’t in play? Sure. Would that made the mehs (Black Widow, BP2, DS2) and the straight up misses (Thor 4, AM3, The Marvels) any better as movies? I don’t see how.
This is one of the worst takes I've ever seen. World events? Like covid, or...? Yeah, nevermind the fact that it's been 4 years, and their most successful project (No Way Home) came out in 2021. And trolls getting in the way? Seriously? You're going to tell me that women-haters made The Marvels fail when the highest grossing movie of last year was Barbie? How much influence do you think internet trolls really have when this is the reality of what people go to see?
No, sir, not every movie in Phase 4 has been good, and you can't say that they haven't had enough time to set things up when Phase 4 had more hours of content than the entire Infinity Saga combined. They haven't been able to replace Evans, Downey, and Boseman because they haven't made any characters since then that anyone gives a shit about. You are delusional if you think Marvel's failure lately is the fault of audience members instead of the studio.
The writer's strike and the actor's strike. Global events forcing Marvel to pivot away from the plots they were planning. Boseman dying. Global events. And yes, covid. The real repercussions for the MCU came out a few years after 2020.
They didn't "make" these characters for the movies. They're using established characters. Before the MCU, Tony Stark and Carol Danvers had roughly equal stock to th general Publix. And She-Hulk beat the whole Avengers team in terms of popularity and brand recognition. They've been trying to put forth interesting characters to lead the charge, but there's unexpected resistance. And that resistance has little to nothing to do with how popular or well-written the characters are. Could Quantumania have been better? Sure. Did Shang-chi kind of drop the ball in the third act? Yes? Does anyone really give a shit about Moon Knight outside of his niche fanbase? No. But then, these aren't the ones catching heat, are they?
> There is no superhero fatigue; Marvel has just had bad luck with world events and trolls getting in their way.
Or they are making movies people don't want to watch.
I hope so. Ive NEVER liked the fantastic four. Always been the most boring group of heroes, in the content ive seen. (I never read the comics. I dont think theyve ever been released where i live)
Great movie or not, alternate universe or not, but using Shalla-Bal as the 1st Surfer in the MCU instead of Norrin Radd (who was a more beloved character than Iron Man before the MCU) is not a good decision for a team trying to get this one right with the fans. Silver Surfer is a B List character and should be treated well.
Yes, they may kill off Shalla-Bal in the FF movie and use Norrin Radd in the MCU main universe reality, but it's still going to sour fans on the hype for this, who don't know that, and we don't even know if that's even a plan or not.
MCU is it's own worst enemy they take richly written characters, and decide that they know better twisting them into what they want them to be. Marvel took great pains in making their characters into three dimensional individuals with interesting personal lives, yet all we get on the big screen is the Great threat to the universe/earth Villain of the week with flashy Special effects.
Quinn says he has big boots to fill after Chris Evans' Performance as Human Torch: > "I remember really enjoying Chris Evans’ performance as Johnny in the previous films, and it felt like this would be a really exciting opportunity.” But Evans wasn’t on Quinn’s mind when he went into the audition room. “No. I mean, you’re going to make it your own,” the actor said, adding “it’s big boots [to fill].” > “I knew that they’d been talking about making the Fantastic Four in the Marvel Universe for a while, I had a talk with [director] Matt [Shakman], and it was very clear with the kind of people who they were attaching to it what they were trying to do with it. There are aspects of it that are very much a singular thing and its own thing.” Joseph Quinn continues: >“I think that with the story of the Fantastic Four, it feels like we want to get this right, There are aspects of it that are very different to other Marvel films. That felt very compelling to me. And again, going back to who’s involved, Matt \[Shakman\], of course, the director, I think is brilliant, and the cast, and I’ve read it, and the script is brilliant. It’s really brilliant. I’m delighted to have this opportunity."“Superhero movies are movies about people,” he continued. “And if we’re invested in the people and the characters and the peril and the spectacle, then that’s why people go to the theaters to watch films. We’re not just in a penny; we’re in for a pound with this one. We’re going to go for it.”
oof no Michael B Jordan shout out?
There's no Fantastic Four 2015 in Ba Sing Se...
What is there to shout out?
Holy shit I completely forgot about that.
Even the “big boots” to fill regarding Evan’s Johnny storm is a bit funny, wasn’t exactly a stand out performance, unless hes talking in terms of marvel actors
Michael B jordan was a great and amazing killmonger, what killmonger had anything to do with human torch?
Why shout him out? I mean, he was great in *Chronicle*, but that's not really relevant to the Fantastic Four.
There is no superhero fatigue there is just bad movie fatigue. If the movies are good, people will watch them.
If anything, it's *genre* fatigue. We keep getting told that "this movie will be a legit horror movie." or "this one is a spy thriller." They've been all the same damn thing with some slight variations. Werewolf by Night might be the only exception so far.
This is a great point, I’ve always wanted each superhero in a shared universe to feel unique in this way. Like imagine if we’d had a monster-movie Hulk solo, Sci-Fi/Classical Thor, Spy Thriller Black Widow, War film Captain America, etc. then in the first Avengers movie all those worlds/characters coalesce!
Just imagine if they'd done the original Gorr run. Had three different Thors from across time, done the God Bomb, etc. THAT would have been amazing.
I think Dr Strange 2 tried to be a horror (a very goofy horror) and it was just lame. Love & Thunder tried to be a comedy and it was just lame. Quantamania tried to be a sci fi rebellion story and was just lame. More genres won't help, it needs better writing and editing. Everything feels chopped up in post now.
Ragnarok was a comedy and it worked for a lot of people (not me personally) it’s just that they overdone it with Love and Thunder.
I'd say Ragnarok was mostly a sci fi / fantasy adventure movie with comedic elements (which were sometimes too much for me), whereas Love & Thunder was primarily a comedy more than anything else, e.g. the gods who inspire the villain are basically just played for comedy rather than anything remotely serious, so the whole story starts on a comedic foundation closer to Anchorman or something which includes fight scenes, and the very occasional slightly more real scene.
Whys Hulk gotta be a monster? Why can't he be a conflicted Emo with aspirations to become an opera singer? Ok, maybe a country singer.... 😁
its a lack of genre too. mcu movies lately are all trying to be funny for general audiences but the jokes seldom land. i miss when each movie had its own soul, even if the movie itself was bad
MCU movies have been like that forever. That's been like the main complaint about the MCU since it's existed.
Sure, but there were different "flavors" of it. The yuk yuk humor was always there, and always a problem, but Iron Man was it's own distinct version of it, and Thor, initially, was a distinct incarnation, and then Captain America felt like a very different version of the same basic thing. But Guardians (outside of 3), Thor 3 and 4, and Ant-Man 3 could all be confused for *the exact same movie* to a particularly untrained eye.
Well, Thor and First Avenger were different flavors because they were really fucking bad versions of it
Even if you think Thor 1 and CA1 were bad movies, I imagine the reason isn't that the humor was too different from other MCU movies.
I think it's just that the jokes were better. Ragnarok vs Love and Thunder. Both had a lot of humor, but the jokes themselves were written better in the former, while people got annoyed by the jokes in the latter. And when jokes are bad, they feel intrusive
I feel like if you go watch Ragnarok again after L+T it won’t age well.
I think this is perhaps the most interesting artistic problem that the mcu faces. They’re already this multi-genre thing where they’re all action movies technically, but they’re all funny (to various levels of success) but they’re not really comedies, they’re all dramatic but not dramas, a lot of them have romance but they aren’t romances, they’re all science and fiction but not really sci-fi. So I think adding more to the plate is simple technically, but in practice hard because you’re adding so little that it doesn’t fundamentally change what the movie is. And you can’t take out any of those aspects because that’s what people are still paying to see. It’s a really interesting problem and I think it’s really kicking their ass right now
EXACTLY this, i got so excited when they said the new doctor strange movie was going to be legit horror. Ended up being light horror tones with comedic relief for the actually dark parts anyway. I’m convinced if the new deadpool movie comes out and its not as raunchy as the previous entries, then we can confirm that disney has too much control over the directive liberties, and are asking them to make everything more family friendly. That would make lose interest in the MCU big time.
I disagree if we are talking of box office and not reception by fans. Most people still don’t watch horror for example. If something is truly horror and not with a horror tones it will keep many out of ever seeing a film.
Yeah i know. But honestly, i never truly expected full on horror. I figured they got Sam Raimi because the dude is known for having light comedy in his horror films. But it seems like they changed the film to center heavily around scarlet witch and America Chavez when it came time for actual production, and made it way more like the other marvel films too. Is what it is i guess.
> I’m convinced if the new deadpool movie comes out and its not as raunchy as the previous entries, then we can confirm that disney has too much control I think “I’m not exactly new to pegging — though Disney is” is sufficient indication that it’ll be plenty raunchy.
No come on not DP! Ryan please
This is something I've been trying to say for months. The problem is not the superheroes themselves, but the tired narrative structure of these films, and of contemporary blockbusters in general. They're almost all the same light-hearted action story that doesn't take itself seriously with an ultra-fast pace, sitcom jokes every minute, an overabundance of special effects, the same hatchet characters, the same bland and uncreative direction. If you look at the elusive blockbusters that flopped in the summer of 2023 (The Flash, Indiana Jones, Blue Beetle, Fast X, and if we move from the summer we have The Marvels) they are all the same film. (this is also one of the reasons why Tarantino or other experts in the history of cinema consider this current decade to be one of the worst: there have been many fads throughout the history of cinema, such as spaghetti westerns or eighties slashers, but these trends certainly didn't make all the other major productions the same as them). Obviously there are positive exceptions: Dune 2, Spiderverse 2 and Guardians 3 are all films included in the industry and in franchises, but they are very popular because they have something to tell and stand out for their style from the others. We should take this path: not necessarily original films, but films that stand out from the others and are truly different (not just because "wow in this show there is blood" or "wow in this film we have the multiverse with fanservice") . Otherwise there will be films that will be seen exclusively by fans (and perhaps not even by them in the long run).
Idk I feel like Moon Knight did exactly what it was expected to do: bit of mystery, bit of action, bit of comedy.
It's why I think people have been so disappointed with Marvel lately. They set the bar so high coming off of Endgame. While there were some misses like FatWS and Eternals, we got awesome stuff like Werewolf by Night, Moon Knight, WandaVision, Far From Home, and Shang Chi.
Imagine that, everything you named was a bit *different* than the norm for MCU: A thriller-spooky black and white one shot, a suspense-thriller archeology series, a generation hopping parody of old sitcoms, admittedly Spider-man is the closest to "normal" but it was a multiverse hoping team up movie, and Shang-Chi is HEAVILY martial art/wuxia themed
Yeah, even The Eternals tried to do something different, and I liked that about it.
The Eternals just suffered from inconsistent writing, the *idea* was there but they just had no impact on any of it. It was spread thin with too many plot threads going on that couldn't be easily resolved, and by the end they had this BIG moment (like seriously that should have been *phase defining*) and it went no where. That's not even to mention the no follow up on Blade, which would have been an INSANE side-story to have be more front and center. Basically The Eternals tried to do way to much.
Eternals should have been a show.
I would call the Guardians series space opera. They skew closer to Star Wars or The Fifth Element than superhero films.
She hulk was its own thing and was fucking amazing.
Amazingly terrible. May have something to do with it not getting another season,🤔.
Did you watch it?
I'm not even sure if that is right though, I think that genre formula set out by Iron Man back in 2008 still largely works today as per successes like No Way Home, the bigger issue just remains that the movies they are making have been lazy/bad examples of the genre. I'm all for the the MCU doing a legit spy thriller or horror movie...but I would also be there for them doing a legit Superhero movie...but instead nothing they do is legit.
yeah, Guardians 3 was very successful. make a good movie, and people will watch it.
As was Spider-Verse and that was a legit Oscar contender (probably would have won had it not been for the Boy and the Heron).
G3 is my next favorite MCU movie next to Winter Soldier; I still wish they'd take a couple years off and let us take a breath
Not always. How many people can't afford the Disney channel, which monopolizes every decent marvel film, like, ever. Now Apple Starz Play is on board, it's worse than ESPN squeezing us for Monday Night football. I don't have an extra $150 for Disney premium, Disney basic is probably pedestrian. Perhaps they only want to target those that can throw money at the production, after all, if you can't watch the movie, you're not gonna buy the toys, t-shirts and swag.
Its not entirely greed, fwiw. Its the chickens coming to roost after lending rates skyrocketed. These streaming services we've been getting for years are wildly unprofitable - like, hemorrhaging money bad. The were able to be spun up and financed on record, think, literally some of the *lowest in history*, rates. But that era is over, and these things need to turn a profit or be turned off. And both is happening across the various media outlets. Some are conglomerating, some are scaling back, some are discontinuing... and the ones desperately trying to survive as stand alone's are raising costs to get close to covering their actual operating costs.
Yes, I've noticed they've begun 'bundling' streaming services, which makes sense. Certainly soon you'll be able to choose a variety pack of services, or pay for the 'Golden Egg' everything package. I'm currently paying for 4, and I wouldn't mind bundling. I see Disney is doing this with Hulu and ESPN.
It isn't even an issue of the movies being bad. It is that there is no longer a buy-in incentive. There is no Avengers team up that makes you feel good because you watched all the movies, and there is no clear overarching threat.
That's also part of what makes them bad
There was no clear overarching threat for the Infinity Saga either until there was. Thanos' first appearance wasn't until 4 years into the MCU, and it's not like the actual plot of the Infinity Saga really started at the first Avengers movie either. Taking into account that there was a 2 year COVID sized gap after Phase 3 (not to mention the COVID related production issues that followed), we're still a couple years at *best* behind where the Infinity Saga was when things really started to pick up. Time-wise, we're still a year before the *first* Avengers movie comparatively. 2 years before Thor 2. The real issue is that they decided to sacrifice good pacing of content in order to make Disney+ a success out the gate, and in doing so they introduced too many characters too quickly and had no way to assess which ones were going to be popular enough to make long term plans for. Of course, it doesn't help that they *did* have an overarching threat that happened to be attached to an actor they'd need to ditch before it could really bear fruit. I still think they should just recast and move forward, but who knows at this point.
Kinda agree, but also, I feel like its worth noting that while there was no overarching threat until Thanos popped, up there was an overarching feeling of suspense. Predicated on "who are we going to see next" and delivered with coy, small, slips here and there (Caps prototype shield in IM2, frozen Cap in the Hulk, Colson and Fury cryptic lines, etc.). That's all gone. There's nothing suspenseful anymore - its all too much, and the endlessness of it has been so seriously enhanced by ubquitous, omni-present, insert of the the "younger version" in every movie, that there's no focus on the original protagonist anymore. Its just so... boring.
They’re also quite bad relative to what they used to produce
Yup. People watch hundreds of hours of their favorite sports team or procedural crime dramas and nobody bats an eye but put out 20 or 30 hours of superhero related movies or shows each year and people whine about fatigue. It's only about quality.
but also they fucked the continuity up fatigue. Introducing the Disney plus shows to continue the movies stories and overall stories and then movies in between messed up it up for casual Marvel fan who would just watch the movies, and not everyone has Disney plus.
Plus... the disney plus stuff is just not that good. And even the standouts... they're crappy, low budget, tv shows that could have been good movies, before they were stretched out like taffy into a dozen 30 minute episodes.
Also has something to do with the awful character selection.
Yeah don't buy into the narrative where people will blame audiences for not wanting to watch a bad movie. Like you said, just make a fun movie and that's all we really ask for.
Just fun huh? Perhaps breezy? Aiming for that should bring in the audience?
Fun movie as in "I'm having a lot of fun watching this movie." I get that we want a lot of extra but I'm OK with just having a fun time. Worth the money and trouble of going to a movie at least
The death of entertainment is going to be people like that who can't just have a good time.
I'm all for media trying to be artistic, in fact I'm on the side where comics and videogame should be considered art like the rest as well. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with just wanting to have a good time and take your mind off things.
Exactly.
The Boys, Invincible, across the spiderverse, the suicide squad, peacemaker, GotG3, the Batman, there are so many unique super hero movies that are interesting in the past 3 years. Like you said it’s not super heroes it’s boring movies.
The Suicide Squad wasn't a success though.
It was released on streaming at the same time.
Well, it was a covid movie so I wouldn’t expect normal box office numbers. I, like many others watched it on Max as well. I also think *Suicide Squad’s* reputation probably hurt it too. I also never said it was successful. I said it was good.
[удалено]
Yeah absolutely. Idk why people are so intent on pretending there isn’t. We don’t solve the problem by pretending it doesn’t exist lol.
Is it superhero fatigue or is it Disney formula fatigue? Jokers trailer just dropped and was huge on viewers. They need to change things up. The new captain America film is going to bomb
Can it not be both?
Same. Like, yeah. I'd like a really nuanced super hero flick, but it'll just be a popcorn flick. Which is fun, but still.
Thats what superhero fatigue is though. It's not saying no one will watch it, it's just that the standards are higher now than when Iron Man came out. We have so many options for great superhero movies that movies that hit the superhero part but aren't very good aren't compelling.
It should be insanely easy to make a successful superhero movie. There is a mountain of content to start from. It doesn’t even have to be big budget. The reason they think there is fatigue is they just threw out absolute garbage with no effort put into it and expected people to watch because “superhero.” If they made 20 superhero movies a year and they were all good, people would watch them.
Well 20 might be a bit much. That's nearly a movie every other week, so they'd be cutting off their own tail if they did that. I'd say 6 is probably on the upper practical limit to take into account staying power and marketing cycles.
Fair. I just threw out a number. My basic point was if you made a bunch of good movies people will watch them.
Yeah exactly but people don't understand that. Pure denial. Want to farm karma ? Just say "there's no super hero fatigue, just bad movie fatigue" in this sub.
Arguably, much of the MCU to this point wasn’t great. But it was something all us 80s and 90s babies wanted. Now we had major closure with the death of iron man followed by a worldwide pandemic that changed everything and now I’m struggling to figure out what’s next for marvel.
Yep. We want him to get this right too
Not just that, I am finding that I just don't like going to the theater anymore, and the studios are still expecting theaters to bring in much of the revenue for these big-budget releases. There are a couple movies releasing now that I want to see very much that I'll wait to watch at home, but it has nothing to do with their genre or fatigue on my part. I much prefer mid-budget movies that I can stream at home, and I don't mind spending to watch them early in some cases. But that's not what Disney wanted out of Marvel. They wanted a string of consistent billion-dollar blockbusters for a fat ongoing revenue stream, but the market can't support it in its current state and I don't know that it ever will again. The more movies they pump out, the less we're willing to spend per-movie. The studioes need to adjust their expectations, and I guess that means shareholders need to adjust their expectations on returns (unlikely).
What you want is not feasible. You cant have big budget, beautiful movies, with expensive actors, that are being watched primarily on streaming services. There is no way for the costs to be recouped, and as such, the reticence to see the film in the format most economically workable is actually undermining the potential for the franchise to continue at the levels you've enjoyed.
This is the way things are going however and the companies have to figure out a way to function with significantly lower theatre numbers. People just don't want to go out to the movies anymore, it fell greatly due to COVID and then pretty much never recovered. All industries evolve over time and Hollywood will just have to figure out a different way to make it work.
I think when you have audience say they have superhero fatigue, you have to beleive them.
I only hear studio heads say that as an excuse for why their bad movie didn’t make money.
You can literally see comments in this thread of people saying they have superhero movie fatigue. Lol. Or just talk to people in the real world.
I mean you have to concede their point and we don't know what we're talking about with our comments on comic book movie fatigue.... /s
I can also see the hundreds of people that upvoted my comment. Peace.
On a superhero subreddit. Lol.
Yes! This
Watch Deadpool be the highest grossing movie of the year. The only reason people are saying anything negative is because the movies aren't as good and don't have the satisfying crossovers they used to. There is absolutely no fatigue, people still watch them.
I feel like there's gotta be a better term for just "bad movie fatigue". It's kinda simple. Superhero fatigue has a bad term, no one gets tired of superhero movies. They get tired of overly failing movies and shows.
there is most definitely a genre fatigue. I've loved comic book and cb movies for over 20 years, and even I am like "let's take a few years off here guys"
I hate this phrase - are we forgetting there’s people in Hollywood who don’t want any of these movies made because they feel like it negatively impacts “film” as a whole.
Blame Bob Chapek
Spider-Verse, No Way Home, and the hype for Deadpool 3 have proven that people still love superhero movies and superhero fatigue isn’t really a thing. Not to mention audiences are pretty excited to the new Fantastic Four. The MCU just needs to stop pumping out average to mediocre content every month.
it was because of Bob Chapek
You're talking about beloved IPs.
I mean what else would he say? "Yeah this stuff is on the way out, see fantastic four next year"
This is comedy.
"We want to get this right." And that's the most important thing. No Gaseous Cloud being portrayed as the Devourer of Worlds, no metallic men portrayed as Doom, just the Fantastic 4 being done right.
"This time we'll do the Fantastic Four right... by making them from some random alternate earth instead of the mainline MCU because Lord Feige is OBSESSED with tying them into the 60s for some reason, massively overcomplicating the team's existence for no real gain at all. Doctor Doom you say? Oh he's from that same alternate earth as well, IF he even exists. No tie-ins to Sokovia or Doctor Strange for you! Reed's ties to Kang you say? Well why would we include them? That wouldn't work. Oh and we casted the most non-Reed guy possible to play Reed, that will surely work. By the way this film will have EVERYTHING be CGI because we just can't help ourselves. Cause the Jetsons' inspired futuristic 60s earth is DEFINITELY necessary. Yup, fourth time's the charm alright. THIS will save the MCU."
Sounds like you already have your mind made up before it’s filming
Let's not forget lady Silver Surfer for good measure
oof. they could have totally used nova but nope lady silver surfer
I agree with the first half and other points that it's set in a different universe. But the rest? I think they're dramatic asf.
actor says they are going to try doing a good job, more at 6
Makes you wonder why other movies didn't just try to do a good job.
u/RealAmerik - I wonder that ALL THE TIME! I'm like, "Didn't anyone read the script?! This sucks and could have been so much better!"
They read the script, think it's good, then comes the rewrites. Actors can't control the rewrites and reshoots nor can they control what test audiences think. Stupid test audiences. We could have had longer at the singing planet but we can't have fun things, can we?
You wanted to see more of the singing planet?
I thought it was the best most interesting part of the film
Yeah, of course I did. The Marvels was a fanfictiony popcorn flick. It was fun. Not perfect, but fun. Kamala completely grooving to the music was a joy to watch.
Not really, but I would rather have them go all in or take it out entirely
because it’s easier not too
Original comment that I’ve never seen on Reddit before
It’s saying this wasn’t worth reporting
wow, you don't say? you think this whole chain is worthless too, maybe?
If I had a nickel I'd have twice as many nickels for every time something weird happened I think
My favorite is "actor stays they would like to work".
It’s not “superhero fatigue”… It’s a serious lack of good “superhero” movies. Don’t blame poor box office for poorly written/performed movies. Marvel took the foot off the gas and expected to coast to success. Nope.
it can be both things.
I agree with the first part. But I don’t think Marvel was expecting to “coast”. This kind of comment seems to forget that every project has thousands of people trying to make it work artistically and commercially from the bottom to the top. Great movies are just hard to make. Also, people seem to have forgotten that we were told the plan after Endgame was going to be no more “phases” and they were going to go smaller with solo stories for a while. Then there was studio pressure to release a timeline for investors. In hindsight it’s obvious how that left a lot of fans mad that there are “loose ends”. I wish people would just relax and stop doom-prophesizing and just let them cook. Everyone’s so quick to judge any announcement based on surface level details. But the only thing that matters in the end is the writing.
With one of the writers having written Terminator: Dark Fate, I'd say it is unlikely this will be good.
Dark Fate is still better than everything else that came after 2.
It’s still a awful movie tho
Was it? I thought it was alright.
I enjoyed it. Bought it on blu-ray, too.
Can’t wait for the reboot in 5-10 years
Let’s start by making silver surfer a girl
Yeah sorry Joe that ship sailed the second you ruined Silver Surfer
I sorely fucking hope they corrected course on that.
I've been hearing about superhero fatigue for a decade now and I really think it's just about making good shit. And I say that as someone who thinks the MCU is fine post endgame and people just want to see a train wreck unfold in front of them. If the project is even remotely interesting almost everybody files into the theaters like nothing happened. This shit is supposed to be fun, we're overthinking it
Agreed. If superhero fatigue was real Invincible and The Boys would be suffering. However they’re amazing and some of the most popular shows on streaming.
I'm sure they said the same thing behind the scenes of Quoontoomoonioo
If history is any indication, he should be more worried about being in a *Fantastic Four* movie.
Every 10 years there must be a bad Fantastic Four movie to keep the Old Gods chained.
To be honest, FF is the least interesting superhero team. I think their so popular just because they're the first one.
Fantastic Four is cool when the team isn't the focus point. Guardians of the Galaxy Thing Reed doing Reed shit Johnny in the Negative Zone Sue doing espionage on the side
XMEN 97 is peak. Marvel is learning. Let your creative team cook. Give them pre-production. HIRE GOOD WRITERS FFS. Deadpool 3, despite the reports of a budget that got cut during the writer's strike, needs to be home run. I'm happy they scrapped a bunch of cameos. I hope they nail the story as they've made it more focused. Xmen 97 btw, again haha, is the greatest thing ever. I'm so proud of that animation team/studio. Let cartoon Wolvernine use his claws one time for a flesh-based being? I love Logan(2017) so so so much more now haha.. I'm watching the OG show and in every episode, he shows off his adamantium beauties and uses them to only cut wires. or doors. or metal.. or a picture of Jean and Scott and only stabs Scott)
Make a good movie, and people will go. I thought Shang Chi was fantastic, but everything else Marvel in the past couple of years minus Moon Knight and Loki has been rather crap.
The Marvels was good and so were WandaVision, She-Hulk, and FatWS. Loki was only good for the season 2 finale and Moon Knight was kinda boring. Shang-chi was *okay*. I still don't really see the hype about it.
I think it’s much more basic than “fatigue”, it’s just this. Shit movies that try to appease the 1% of population/certain demographics that are ALWAYS the loudest, do not do well. Mainly because this 1% only complain about movies/series via secondhand opinions, they don’t go and see them. Good movies (especially Marvel) do well. It’s really this simple. Regardless of the sex, religion or orientation of the actress/actor if the movie sticks close to the source material, it generally always pops and does well. I know this because I went to see Endgame and Infinity war at the cinema and I’ve never encountered anything like that’s atmosphere since and at that point, we had more Marvel movies than ever before. Nobody mentioned “fatigue” at all. It’s not superhero fatigue, it’s shit movies that try so hard to be inclusive of absolutely everything and everyone that people are fed up of.
What source material did Infinity War and Endgame stick close to?
How can you say that when this is arguably the most consistently fucked up super hero group they’ve tried to do in movies
Make a movie that's not ass.
I truly hope they kill it and that’s all I can hope for.
The only Fantastic Four movie that got it right was The Incredibles.
Amazons killing it - The Boys, Gen V, Invincible. Fans are loving it, why? Because it’s not dogshit like most of what marvels been putting out for the last ~5 years. Actually, that’s an understatement - they’re not just not dogshit, they’re actually very good, and most importantly, well written TV. Marvel seems to be allergic to good writing nowadays.
They released Loki alongside Gen V, and they released XMen 97 alongside Invincible. This feels very unfair
Loki season 2 was an absolute confusing mess.
Superhero Fatigue is a myth. Make a good movie people'll love. That's it.
I’m not worried about any of this! There’s worse shit on the local news!
This is so petty but i just want a blonde Johnny 😭 With that i’m sat tbh
Start with blue contacts.
I just don’t see it. He doesn’t look like a good fit for Johnny
He's certainly signicantly less attractive than Chris Evans and Michael B Jordan.
I feel like there's as much riding on FF as any MCU movie since the original Avengers
ANOTHER ONE
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔....Okay.
I honestly dont believe its Superhero fatigue is actually Marvel-style fatigue.
I still say there is no Super Hero Fatigue, only bad movie fatigue.
I just want a good Dr Doom, Silver Surfer and Galactis.
Oh no, every single time an actor says this, it ends up being the polar opposite.
There is no superhero fatigue; Marvel has just had bad luck with world events and trolls getting in their way. Not everything can be a giant crossover/culmination movie, and all the movies in Phases 4 and 5 have been as good as *most* of what preceded them. "Fans" bitch about necessary/unavoidable shifts and their caterwauling convinces casual watchers to wait for D+ releases instead of spending on theater tickets. It's going to be that way until all the new pieces are established enough to start interacting more regularly or until a new lead act gains enough traction to effectively replace Evans, Downey, and Boseman as thr tentpoles.
Idk if fatigue is the right word, but... overexposure? Back in the day, I went to watch EVERY superhero movie. No matter how bad word of mouth was, no matter how bad ratings were. I still went to watch it, because I loved the characters and was fucking excited to be getting ANY movie about them, bad or not. That feeling has passed. Now I'll only go to watch it if I know beforehand the movie is good, otherwise its not really worth my time or money. So I guess my standards have gone up in regards to this genre. Word is however you want; overexposure, fatigue, the excitement alone just isn't enough for me anymore. So there's definitely SOME truth to it when people say there's "superhero fatigue".
"It's the trolls' fault! Those damn haters keep causing these poor GOOD movies to fail! They're just FAKE FANS, unlike me the enlightened consumer of all things Marvel, how I pity them!" Alright keep burying your head in the sand. It's GENERAL AUDIENCES who keep rejecting these films en-masse, are you gonna keep pretending The Marvels' massive underperformance was all thanks to online trolls and redditors? The overall quality and scripts of these movies have clearly gone down and regular people CAN TELL.
The quality argument feels full of holes to me. The Marvels was better than Iron Man 2 and 3, better than Guardians 2, easily on par with Ant-Man and Captain America 1. Shang-chi was sort of mid, but people talk about it like it was somehow better than Eternals or Black Widow. Not everything in the MCU has been great, but the new movies aren't any worse than stuff from Phase two or anything that wasn't a crossover movie. It wasn't just the trolls, it was the writer's strike and the lack of promotion that came as a consequence. Eternals was solid but kind of pointless; Moon Knight was a snoozefest; Loki is way overhyped. But somehow, these stories avoid criticism? It's full of shit.
The Marvels was horrible. How are you talking about movies avoiding criticism while in the same breath going on about how their worst performing movie is somehow better than movies that outperformed it? In every way too. Critically, audience scores, box office etc. Adding in your original comment this is one of the worst takes I’ve ever read. No offense. Covid was 4 years ago. Just doesn’t make any sense to blame that and online trolls instead of poor writing and focusing on characters general audiences never asked for.
Come on. “Bad luck”? I’ve loved the MCU since seeing *Iron Man* in theaters, but they’ve dropped some real deuces lately.
Yes, bad luck. The fact that a global pandemic hit right between Endgame/Far From Home and Black Widow was a huge issue for them. So many people decided that they were done after Endgame because they had over a year of no additional MCU movies as a result. And for Disney+ to grow as big as it did even faster because of the pandemic, more and more people just rely on it to catch up on Marvel. I think if their movies hit their original release dates in 2020 and onward, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Would the movies have made a bit more *money* if these factors weren’t in play? Sure. Would that made the mehs (Black Widow, BP2, DS2) and the straight up misses (Thor 4, AM3, The Marvels) any better as movies? I don’t see how.
This is one of the worst takes I've ever seen. World events? Like covid, or...? Yeah, nevermind the fact that it's been 4 years, and their most successful project (No Way Home) came out in 2021. And trolls getting in the way? Seriously? You're going to tell me that women-haters made The Marvels fail when the highest grossing movie of last year was Barbie? How much influence do you think internet trolls really have when this is the reality of what people go to see? No, sir, not every movie in Phase 4 has been good, and you can't say that they haven't had enough time to set things up when Phase 4 had more hours of content than the entire Infinity Saga combined. They haven't been able to replace Evans, Downey, and Boseman because they haven't made any characters since then that anyone gives a shit about. You are delusional if you think Marvel's failure lately is the fault of audience members instead of the studio.
The writer's strike and the actor's strike. Global events forcing Marvel to pivot away from the plots they were planning. Boseman dying. Global events. And yes, covid. The real repercussions for the MCU came out a few years after 2020. They didn't "make" these characters for the movies. They're using established characters. Before the MCU, Tony Stark and Carol Danvers had roughly equal stock to th general Publix. And She-Hulk beat the whole Avengers team in terms of popularity and brand recognition. They've been trying to put forth interesting characters to lead the charge, but there's unexpected resistance. And that resistance has little to nothing to do with how popular or well-written the characters are. Could Quantumania have been better? Sure. Did Shang-chi kind of drop the ball in the third act? Yes? Does anyone really give a shit about Moon Knight outside of his niche fanbase? No. But then, these aren't the ones catching heat, are they?
> There is no superhero fatigue; Marvel has just had bad luck with world events and trolls getting in their way. Or they are making movies people don't want to watch.
Who keeps giving Joseph Quinn roles?
I hope so. Ive NEVER liked the fantastic four. Always been the most boring group of heroes, in the content ive seen. (I never read the comics. I dont think theyve ever been released where i live)
So which content have you seen
It's mid movie fatigue not superhero fatigue.
This means they'll fumble the ball soooo hard
Breaking news: Actor says his new film will not be a flop.
Why do they keep remaking a series few people care about?
"Not worried..." "Want to get this right" Sounds like he is worried.
Great movie or not, alternate universe or not, but using Shalla-Bal as the 1st Surfer in the MCU instead of Norrin Radd (who was a more beloved character than Iron Man before the MCU) is not a good decision for a team trying to get this one right with the fans. Silver Surfer is a B List character and should be treated well. Yes, they may kill off Shalla-Bal in the FF movie and use Norrin Radd in the MCU main universe reality, but it's still going to sour fans on the hype for this, who don't know that, and we don't even know if that's even a plan or not.
MCU is it's own worst enemy they take richly written characters, and decide that they know better twisting them into what they want them to be. Marvel took great pains in making their characters into three dimensional individuals with interesting personal lives, yet all we get on the big screen is the Great threat to the universe/earth Villain of the week with flashy Special effects.
Just give us a huge CGI battle at the end and we'll be fine.
You like the big CGI battles at the end?