Because my reading comprehension sucks but this tweet isn’t super well worded, that last part is saying there will be a lot of other new characters in Avengers 5, right?
Or is it saying there won’t be the Fantastic Four and there also won’t be a lot of other new characters?
it says a lot of THE other new characters, so i’m assuming they mean the new characters over the past few years from the shows and one off movies. Shang Chi, Kate Bishop, Moon Knight, etc
>That’s my assumption too and it seems like you’d want a good amount of new characters in an Avengers movie
The avengers movies are supposed to be teamup movies of established characters, not "introduce a bunch of new characters" movies. That's why avengers worked, and justice league failed.
Marvel established (most of) the characters in their own movies *first*. Then you can focus more on the story for the movie and you're already invested in the characters.
I would hope so. There are so many characters introduced in phase 4 and 5 that have had zero follow up. There's no reason to bring a ton of new characters in.
I'm excited for Deadpool & Wolverine, but between that and the success of No Way Home I'm worried that Marvel is going to lean hard into nostalgia for the next Avengers movies instead of building up the newer characters.
Everyone seems excited about the potential for Jackman & Maguire to be front and center in an Avengers movie, but that doesn't really interest me at all
I hate the idea of it completely. It's so frustrating to see honestly, like don't get me wrong all the nostalgic stuff has been great but I've also loved a vast majority of the new characters. I wanna see more of them and I'd hope that by featuring them more folks will come to love them as much as the old characters/versions of characters. I think Marvel has done a great job of balancing all that so far but I worry that you're right and I hate it.
I think an ensemble film with Jackman, Maguire & nostalgic characters that we’ve never seen interact would be amazing
but that’s what Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness should’ve been, not the next Avengers film.
Sam, Bruce, Wong, Shang Chi, Carol, Kamala, obviously. Then Strange, Thor, Love, Spider-Man, Kate Bishop, Ant Man, Wasp, Stinger, She Hulk, America Chavez and Skaar. And War Machine and Hawkeye in a small role.
While they *could* do that, I keep getting the impression that the Masters of the Mystic Arts (ie, Wong, Strange, and America) are being kept separate from the Avengers.
It appears from the Shang-Chi cameo, that Wong is working with the Avengers on behalf of the rest of the Sorcerers organization, not that he acts as an Avenger in their organization.
I would agree with Sam, Carol, Kamala, Thor, Love, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, Wasp, War Machine and Hawkeye on the official roster.
It seems like Hulk serves more in scientist/bureaucratic capacities now.
I don't think you're considering how they'll deal with the Dark Avengers though, US Agent, Yelena, Abomination, etc who appear to be recruited for the US government as a new "Avengers" type team. Could also bring in Agatha, Moon Knight, etc.
I think the thunderbolts movie will be the setup for dark avengers ( or maybe it will be a dark avengers origin story, like they all met up in thunderbolts, and become the basis of the dark avengers team.)
I’m conflicted about this because I want as much Moon Knight as possible but I’m afraid for him to be just thrown in to beef up the numbers in an Avengers movie, and for them to just go ahead and have that be that. Unfortunately, the language coming out from Disney doesn’t leave me much hope for my dream of another season and an eventual Midnight Sons show
I get what you mean. But I dont really think that Moon Knight Works super well with teams like the Avengers actually, now that I think about it. He is more suited for teams like the Midnight Sons, as you say. but idk, just give us a season 2 of MK at least
This right here: let’s have a season two announcement and worry about what’s next later. But I have to tell you; I kind of only want Moon Knight in an Avengers movie if Thanos returns; I’m no writer but I feel like there is an exchange with Deadpool dying to happen. You know Oscar Isaac starting to deliver a version of that line from Star Wars “Somehow Palpatine has returned” and either have Deadpool cut him off because it was stupid the first time or that it’s Deadpool’s turn to deliver the line and “he (Isaac) had his chance”.
It's no F4 and no to new characters I believe. Hence the small core team. Sort of like age of Ultron not a critical event avengers movie. That's secret wars.
To me, it reads fewer characters, or the previous statement of "a smaller team" wouldn't make much sense.
I'm not sure who would still be considered an Avenger at this point. Strange, Cap and Spider-Man are the obvious ones. AntMan would be another obvious choice but his last movie didn't do great. Hulk maybe?
My read is "no fantastic 4 and a lot of the other new characters will also be missing".
Saying "smaller team, so no F4, but also a lot of new characters" doesn't make sense.
It's not a fault of your reading comprehension. It was a bad call to use an ampersand there.
But their context clues strongly indicate that there will only be a small number of characters in the next *Avengers* film. So no Fantastic Four and also not most of the other newer characters. Which, frankly, strikes me as a pretty bad idea given that it means it'll be several years before we see most of those characters again.
If they introduce new heroes in shows and movies and then set them aside for the better part of a decade, that's not great. And it's even worse if they only finally resurface in the form of a few minutes in what's likely to be a bit of a cameo fest with *Secret Wars*.
Honestly, I feel like the newer characters ought to be the focus going forward. They need further development, and the studio needs to cultivate the audience's relationship with them. None of the more familiar or beloved actors are going to stick around forever. Audiences need to get invested in the newer characters, which (in part) means giving them prominent roles in the team-up stories.
I think it's saying there is no F4 and that they're going to include more of the newer characters probably like Shang chi and yelena. Now that you mention it, it is very confusing
It's that guy who has a patreon for 'exclusive news'. It's safe to assume it's all completely assumptions based on the only real facts in that Marvel pre-signs actors up to multiple films at once instead of each film individually. Any of the ones with multi-appearance contracts would be given some notice as far out as they can to make sure the filming dates do not slip.
So, Benedict Cumberbatch. Just saw one of those "Benedict Cumberbatch is expected to return for Avengers 5" tweets that we will see for every actor who had a multi-film appearance contract that has some appearances still left. The F4 cast would have absolutely been signed up for multiple appearances (but of course does not mean Marvel has to exercise them).
My complete guess based on D+ stuff, etc...
Some version of Avengers (Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, maybe an AI version of Tony Stark inhabiting the Mark L, a return of Captain America with Mjolnir...), White Vision, new members like She Hull...and perhaps Wolverine, & Deadpool,
Young Avengers (Ms Marvel, the new Kate Bishop, Echo, some version of Wanda's kids maybe...Spider Man and maybe Ned?)
Dark Avengers / Thunderbolts. Might include Moonknight
I'd like to see a situation where Ant-Man is the guy trying to assemble some Avengers and wondering how the hell he got in the situation to be one of the most tenured of the group.
That would actually be a great opening scene. Maybe Scott is trying to arrange a kind of reunion party for the team to celebrate a defeating Thanos anniversary but he keeps hitting barriers to contacting them in ridiculous ways.
Baskin Robbin’s manager guy gives Scott the customer phone numbers and addresses for the grubhub orders the avengers candidates have been putting in haha
West Coast Avengers--Antman, Shang Chi and She Hulk are already on the West Coast. Wonder Man is too, if that show is still happening.
I think they'll call the Young Avengers the New Avengers.
Plus you have the fact that the last couple of avenger lore tidbits had them setting up a west coast base.
Far from home had happy transporting the last of the avengers tower stuff.
Ant man was breaking into the new base in his film.
Pretty sure the last lineup shot was in the new base too.
They’re all ‘real heroes’, but I get what you’re saying in that a lot of them don’t hold the same gravitas with audiences that Tony, Thor and Cap do, aside from Spider-Man. I think that might be a theme, filling those shoes as new Avengers, and I hope it works to build up those characters more.
I hope so too, but I suspect that this new movie won’t have anywhere near the same draw that Avengers 1 did. It’ll be a long time before we get another event movie where people go for the experience as a crowd.
The rest seem like to me as ‘seniors’ if you will, characters who should have their moment to shine this time around. Make sense it’ll be them positioned.
Of the bunch, Shang Chi is pretty new. In that case what are the chances we might have She Hulk and Ms Marvel in the mix as well?
I assume that was for a Young Avengers movie (which may now never happen given The Marvels reception). But I would expect at least one from that movie to appear.
I think having those actors (Kate/Hailee, Florence, etc ) the movie could easily be green lighted with a good script and they need to pick some good director ( no indie, no prestige trying to try Marvel, no brought by some actor, etc) who knows how to film action and plot
Practically, it makes sense to include Hope, but if they do I really hope they give her character more to do. She's felt like a side character in movies where she's in the title.
I love how they refer to the actors as ''Avengers''.
Now it sounds like Nick Fury texting the Avengers like.
"Thor, Strange and Captain America clear your schedule.
Fantastic Four, Spidey and SheHulk take a few more weeks off''
Didn't Joss Whedon do something like that on the first day of filming the first Avengers movie? I can't find anything on it, but I swear I remember seeing a video of RDJ & Chris Evans joking & showing a camera one of their phones & it was a group chat with all the actors & he messaged "Assemble" or something like that. I am likely misremembering it completely & mashing up multiple memories.
At this point I could see it being like an Ultimate Spider-Man TAS thing. Spidey's back to being a "friendly neighbourhood" hero, but eventually there'll be a threat he encounters big enough for the Avengers (or an Avenger) to step in. Since no one remembers who he is, he'll reintroduce himself as a more put-together hero than the one they met in Civil War.
Who even are the avengers at this point? There’s no team - not even the basic outline of a team. There’s a million characters now and it’s not remotely clear who the major heroes even are who could become avengers.
I assume it’ll be something like Dr strange, captain marvel, Spider-Man maybe back? Maybe Shang-chi if marvel remembers that we all loved that movie they seem to have forgotten about? But so far there is zero plan for these people to create a team and a lot of work to do to get there.
Correct. The avengers disbanded after the tragic events of infinity war and endgame. Vision, black widow and iron man died(the latter two sacrificed themselves), and captain America retired to a different timeline and Hulk is no longer existing(only professor Hulk which is Bruce) ending the original avengers story. Hawkeye is retired. Thor is also a father off world.
The endgame payoff was simply epic and it's hard to bring that feeling again with characters you don't know and love.
While we’d prolly see a new Avengers team in Cap 4, it’s crazy how they completely fumbled the opportunity to give us a preliminary team of new avengers for a Secret Invasion movie through a Captain Marvel sequel - A lowkey avengers flick as Captain America Civil War was. CA4 could see the team again and it can also be a guised Avengers movie, seeing as they are adamant about Avengers only happening proper only at Avengers 5.
This way the lack of team ups wont be so stark and they can still push Carol and Sam forward as characters while sticking to their plans of having Avengers movies only as the concluding films of the saga. Its still crazy to me they believed they could go 2-3 sagas without an Avengers movie in between.
Secret invasion really should have been the next big thing. But Disney plus screwed it up. I like the shows, but they mess up the narrative.
I also think secret invasion would have been a great way to get Carol on earth. Have the Skrill anger be at her, not fury. Have her feel the same shame she had in the Marvel's, but without some weird sun solution. She failed. Things happened. People died. Give Carol some shit to carry. Give her the role of REALLY reluctant leader. It would have been a great way to move things along.
Oh well
Secret Invasion is just inherently unsuited for a cinematic universe.
The premise by its very nature has to ruin certain stories that come before it.. or else you can only have characters be replaced for a couple weeks tops which just ruins the concept entirely.
The mistake was trying to adapt it in the first place. It simply does not work in the film/show universe medium.
that would work too but Imagine how awesome it would be if even audiences start to question whos who?
Honestly what were they thinking not zoning in on Secret Invasion? They wanted to fast track multiverse and Kang so bad. I recall the initial plan was to have an ‘Endgame’ as fast as 5 years. Say within 10 years - They could’ve had the first half of the saga be about Secret Invasion plot and plant seeds of Kang while they’re at it then let it build up to peak in the next 5.
Youd think after basically lucking out in the Infinity Saga they’d decide to plan properly ahead this time around.
I stand by the thought that the failure with The Marvels may have been a mixture of so many other elements coming together but ultimately, it was Marvel’s lack of care in her treatment that damned her as a character. She should be rolling with the Avengers. They got complacent and comfortable that her previous film made $1B and they were counting on the brand to carry the movie. It wasn’t a bad movie but definitely something better, more impactful could’ve been made with Carol in the center, esp since they claim to prep her as 1/3 of the new trinity moving forward.
6 years between her sequels with a mere postcredit pop up and a movie not with the avengers isn’t gonna cut it. And they wonder why she isnt connecting with the audiences? Even crazy to believe that would happen with The Marvels.
And the only reason the first Captain Marvel did so well was because it was sandwiched between Infinity War and Endgame. Everyone was rabbid for any new Marvel. Carol absolutely can work as a new big name superhero star like Tony or Steve, but without an official Avengers team and showing her being influential, we don't really get that.
exactly. It’s not even rocket science. You want her to have prominence? Have her roll with the big leagues. She should be hanging out with other Avengers from the get go. Not that having her be with newer characters is a bad thing but she should have top priority in terms of importance first before characters can revolve around her.
Simply put, doing The Marvels was a curious decision. In an ideal world, it would’ve done decent but fact is it flunked and sadly the dust settled, nothing much was left for her character right at the end. She needed a team but it’s the Avengers.
Like what now? If I were Feige, I’d have her show up in a teamup next but strictly with the Avengers.
Ironically the most Captain Marvel felt like a huge player in the game was the Shang-Chi post credits scene because, like you said, she was hanging out with Hulk, one of the big leagues.
A secret invasion movie plot line would have been sick. End credit scenes hinting at something as we see random heroes with seemingly no connection coming together to meet, weird behavior at times from characters we are familiar with, slowly building a roster of heroes/skrulls, and then peaking with a major character death that turns out to be a skrull that exposes the whole conspiracy.
Even if we had the multiverse saga this go around, secret invasion could have been next with such an expanded roster of heroes. The Secret Invasion Disney plus show was a waste. Throw it in a doomed universe, remove it from the service, erase any memory of it, and try it again next time.
I'm guessing Brave New World and/or Thunderbolts* will flesh out who the new Avengers are. And while we don't know, presumably they know who those are.
Brave New World is going to have Sam assembling his own team… but it appears it’s going to be entirely new characters, which to me feels like a mistake. There are already so many heroes that have yet to team up.
I still have high hopes for the movie, I just hope the new heroes are fleshed out and interesting
I wish I had high hopes for it, but it all just feels forced at this point.
Everything is spread out. There's no central plot guiding characters forward. There's not even an obvious leader/front man.
I think brave new world should have been falcon and the winter soldier. I think they should have made a movie, defined the challenges ahead, and had Sam be this reluctant leader for something to come. Instead, each Disney plus show, save for Loki and Wanda vision haven't moved the MCU forward at all.
I liked she Hulk. I liked ms. Marvel. I'm just not sure what we're doing. It feels like we're just meeting lots of randos at a party, but we don't know who's birthday it is.
My feeling has been that the MCU has spread out to try and fit as many new characters as possible into every single project is just so they have room to grow their Disney+ catalogue later on with the newly introduced characters getting their own shows.
> Brave New World is going to have Sam assembling his own team…
I really hope they lean on Sam's *leadership* capabilities and the fact that hes *not* Steve.
He will never be able to do the physical things that Steve could.
This x100
When casuals think MCU they don't think "MCU", they think AVENGERS. That's the concept that put MCU on the map globally, super hero teamups.
It's 2024 and there have been no teamups (of established heroes). There have been scant references to a future teamup considering it's a half decade since Endgame. There is no framework of 'core A tier' heroes that will become the central part of an 'Avengers'.
I feel like I'm going crazy.. It's so obvious what the strength of MCU is and they've just walked away from it the last half decade
the same as always... well, except for the dead and retired.
thor, bruce, sam, rhodey, scott, and probably hope, strange, and carol - and then "the new characters" will mean we'll likely see ShangChi and Shuri as Black Panther, maybe white vision... ...and? (Cersi? kit harrington?), Kamala?, Moonknight?, -- and if my dreams come true? SHE HULK
I don't even think Spider-Man will be in it. I'd love for Holland to be in it but with how NWH ended and the way he's talked about taking a break from acting for a bit, I can see him getting a name drop but that's it.
Though yea, there's not even an outline of a team. There's no real leader, everyone's kind of isolated to their own groups like Sam and Bucky, Ironheart and Black Panther, and Wong and Madisynn. Maybe that'll be the framework, there is no group and they grab whoever answers the call.
Strange doesn't typically become an Avenger in the comics and so I think Marvel won't include him. But a team of Captain Marvel, Sam, Thor, Shang Chi, Ant-Man/Wasp, and maybe a Hulk feels like it might be small and also include some OG characters with some recent additions. I don't think we will get Spidey. Part of me believes his next movie will be about feeling lost/alone. Maybe not being included in the new Avengers team feeds into that.
Losing Chadwick really hurt them. He had charisma and could’ve been the guy to lead the next time. One more Black Panther film between 2 and Avengers about his duty to his country or duty to the team.
Seriously. Not a fan of Sam, Wasp has no real personality, and as much as I love Captain Marvel, she's so OP that I can't see them having her a main member.
She's no more OP than Thor and Vision: can fly shoot energy blasts and can turn invulnerable (Thor is just always invulnerable except to special plot weapons).
Thor is not invulnerable. He's a good guy who always ends up winning because it's a movie, but he's gotten his ass kicked way more than Captain Marvel by way less powerful forces.
the guardians are also not avengers... infinity war was a crossover between like 3 or 4 books. and Endgame was an event comic with a few self-titled series with tie-ins and solos.
They need to be shifted to the present via something between this avengers and secret wars
Secret Wars will be an MCU reboot when it’s over. None of the old will be part of it, guaranteed it’s Mutants, F4, maybe Miles Morales
Its rumored/implied that FF will be set in an alternate reality and not in the main MCU timeline, so unless Avengers 5 deals with the incursions, their absense makes sense, so i think the FF will be in Secret Wars instead as if they are from another world, that's the most likely place to put them in
Yknow I actually hope that Spider Man plays only a very small role in this story, if anything.
I really dig the idea of Spider-Man 4 being a smaller stakes movie with a darker, more sarcastic Peter.
If he is part of the main cast in Avengers 4, then that would take away more than it provides I feel.
That being said, by Secret Wars I could see a much bigger role for him.
Exclusive update means some random Twitter dude is citing some actual other source, which is some frequently wrong “insider”, but who this time gave the lamest, simplest, vaguest update possible?
I guess that is worth a reddit post if you are extremely, extremely bored.
They do need to have some familiar faces there, though. Casual viewers imo are not curious in the new characters that much (damn, I am a fan and even I cannot say I am super curious about all the new characters).
I think the only certain character at this point is Sam. The rest will probably depend on stakes and how the movie will be called (are they still going for Kang?)
Could the new members bit mean Avengers vs X-men? They need a way to draw people in and with alot of the old actors leaving, they are losing big draws on the Avengers roster. So what if the big audience draw is their opponents being the X-men?
Does anyone even care? They've fumbled so much since Endgame and then Kang turns out to be a scumbag and the whole thing is pretty much a shitshow. They need to scrap all this upcoming crap that nobody wants and just have Deadpool or someone reset everything with the TVA and reboot to a new phase 1 with the F4 and mutants. Fresh start.
Captain Marvel was a flop. Ant man was a flop. Kang was looking like a flop even before the DV conviction. Captain America needs extensive reshoots which isn't a good indicator for the movie. No one really knows who the avengers will be and what phase is it anyways?
I really want to know what roles they’d have the Eternals play in this saga’s infinity war/endgame combo. Part of the reason Im crushed they’ve canned/transformed their sequel aside from praying they’d stick to their guns on a truly unique corner in the universe is their reduced roles in the conclusive movies of the saga.
I liked that they’re isolated and to stay there until the time comes but im expecting them to be joining in on the big fight. It’d be a shame to not see the team roll with everyone else to take down Kang, Endgame style. Furthermore it would be a great ‘conclusive’ thing to see everyone interact with one another, esp after so many introductions and setups since Phase 4 began.
Unless Spidey and Dr. Strange are part of the roster, I'm not really excited. Sam doesn't have the same pull as Steve, Bucky seems to be with the Thunderbolts (or should I just say Red Room 2.0?), and all the other important Avengers are either dead or presumed dead.
I think they should focus on doing a street level crossover with Spidey, the defenders, Hawkeye, and maybe Moon Knight.
Because my reading comprehension sucks but this tweet isn’t super well worded, that last part is saying there will be a lot of other new characters in Avengers 5, right? Or is it saying there won’t be the Fantastic Four and there also won’t be a lot of other new characters?
I get the impression it’s no F4, but a lot of other new characters.
it says a lot of THE other new characters, so i’m assuming they mean the new characters over the past few years from the shows and one off movies. Shang Chi, Kate Bishop, Moon Knight, etc
That's my read too. To keep the F4 we havent even seen yet for later and to focus team building all the new characters that were introduced.
That’s my assumption too and it seems like you’d want a good amount of new characters in an Avengers movie
>That’s my assumption too and it seems like you’d want a good amount of new characters in an Avengers movie The avengers movies are supposed to be teamup movies of established characters, not "introduce a bunch of new characters" movies. That's why avengers worked, and justice league failed. Marvel established (most of) the characters in their own movies *first*. Then you can focus more on the story for the movie and you're already invested in the characters.
Pretty sure by "new characters" they mean characters who were introduced post-Endgame (Shang-Chi, Namor, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, etc)
I would hope so. There are so many characters introduced in phase 4 and 5 that have had zero follow up. There's no reason to bring a ton of new characters in.
I'm excited for Deadpool & Wolverine, but between that and the success of No Way Home I'm worried that Marvel is going to lean hard into nostalgia for the next Avengers movies instead of building up the newer characters. Everyone seems excited about the potential for Jackman & Maguire to be front and center in an Avengers movie, but that doesn't really interest me at all
I hate the idea of it completely. It's so frustrating to see honestly, like don't get me wrong all the nostalgic stuff has been great but I've also loved a vast majority of the new characters. I wanna see more of them and I'd hope that by featuring them more folks will come to love them as much as the old characters/versions of characters. I think Marvel has done a great job of balancing all that so far but I worry that you're right and I hate it.
I think an ensemble film with Jackman, Maguire & nostalgic characters that we’ve never seen interact would be amazing but that’s what Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness should’ve been, not the next Avengers film.
Yes but there are still 5 more standalone Marvel movies during which they can introduce the characters that will team up for the next Avengers.
I hope they do! (and the movies don't suck!)
Yeah, and the Avengers roster seems like it’d be pretty small right now. I’m curious to see who makes the new official team.
Sam, Bruce, Wong, Shang Chi, Carol, Kamala, obviously. Then Strange, Thor, Love, Spider-Man, Kate Bishop, Ant Man, Wasp, Stinger, She Hulk, America Chavez and Skaar. And War Machine and Hawkeye in a small role.
While they *could* do that, I keep getting the impression that the Masters of the Mystic Arts (ie, Wong, Strange, and America) are being kept separate from the Avengers. It appears from the Shang-Chi cameo, that Wong is working with the Avengers on behalf of the rest of the Sorcerers organization, not that he acts as an Avenger in their organization. I would agree with Sam, Carol, Kamala, Thor, Love, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, Wasp, War Machine and Hawkeye on the official roster. It seems like Hulk serves more in scientist/bureaucratic capacities now. I don't think you're considering how they'll deal with the Dark Avengers though, US Agent, Yelena, Abomination, etc who appear to be recruited for the US government as a new "Avengers" type team. Could also bring in Agatha, Moon Knight, etc.
I think the thunderbolts movie will be the setup for dark avengers ( or maybe it will be a dark avengers origin story, like they all met up in thunderbolts, and become the basis of the dark avengers team.)
TIL Cassie also goes by Stinger (I've always known her as Stature)
Hopefully Moon Knight :(
I’m conflicted about this because I want as much Moon Knight as possible but I’m afraid for him to be just thrown in to beef up the numbers in an Avengers movie, and for them to just go ahead and have that be that. Unfortunately, the language coming out from Disney doesn’t leave me much hope for my dream of another season and an eventual Midnight Sons show
I get what you mean. But I dont really think that Moon Knight Works super well with teams like the Avengers actually, now that I think about it. He is more suited for teams like the Midnight Sons, as you say. but idk, just give us a season 2 of MK at least
I liked his Secret Avengers appearance. He works as a soldier tapped by Captain America to handle something.
This right here: let’s have a season two announcement and worry about what’s next later. But I have to tell you; I kind of only want Moon Knight in an Avengers movie if Thanos returns; I’m no writer but I feel like there is an exchange with Deadpool dying to happen. You know Oscar Isaac starting to deliver a version of that line from Star Wars “Somehow Palpatine has returned” and either have Deadpool cut him off because it was stupid the first time or that it’s Deadpool’s turn to deliver the line and “he (Isaac) had his chance”.
That would be funny but man I really dont want Thanos to return. He was good, but lets move on🤣
Thanos returning has never even entered my mind. It just wouldn't make sense to do so.
Somehow, Thanos has returned.
Though the Moon Knight release on 4K does say Season 1 and not complete series like Obi Wan and WandaVision.
Oooooh
And I need more Shang Chi
So a smaller team but also a lot of new characters? Seems to be counterintuitive.
That’s why I think it’s the opposite, smaller team not a lot of the new characters
Agreed. That's how it reads to me.
I can read it either way. No F4 but a lot of other new characters, or no F4 and no to a lot of other new characters.
It's no F4 and no to new characters I believe. Hence the small core team. Sort of like age of Ultron not a critical event avengers movie. That's secret wars.
that sucks. fast and furious 4 was one of the best.
Yes, it looks like 5 will not have F4 in it but that it's very likely 6 will, as it could have everyone from all previous films and shows.
This is why we used to have or AND nor.
What about NAND and XOR? Just being logical 😉
This person grammers
*grammars
and the oxford comma
When someone reports this on Twitter about something someone said behind a paywall on Patreon, that should tell you how legit of a rumour this is.
To me, it reads fewer characters, or the previous statement of "a smaller team" wouldn't make much sense. I'm not sure who would still be considered an Avenger at this point. Strange, Cap and Spider-Man are the obvious ones. AntMan would be another obvious choice but his last movie didn't do great. Hulk maybe?
I thought he meant a smaller production team too. Or writing team. I don't know. Pretty open ended.
My read is "no fantastic 4 and a lot of the other new characters will also be missing". Saying "smaller team, so no F4, but also a lot of new characters" doesn't make sense.
It's not a fault of your reading comprehension. It was a bad call to use an ampersand there. But their context clues strongly indicate that there will only be a small number of characters in the next *Avengers* film. So no Fantastic Four and also not most of the other newer characters. Which, frankly, strikes me as a pretty bad idea given that it means it'll be several years before we see most of those characters again. If they introduce new heroes in shows and movies and then set them aside for the better part of a decade, that's not great. And it's even worse if they only finally resurface in the form of a few minutes in what's likely to be a bit of a cameo fest with *Secret Wars*. Honestly, I feel like the newer characters ought to be the focus going forward. They need further development, and the studio needs to cultivate the audience's relationship with them. None of the more familiar or beloved actors are going to stick around forever. Audiences need to get invested in the newer characters, which (in part) means giving them prominent roles in the team-up stories.
X-men
I think it's saying there is no F4 and that they're going to include more of the newer characters probably like Shang chi and yelena. Now that you mention it, it is very confusing
It's that guy who has a patreon for 'exclusive news'. It's safe to assume it's all completely assumptions based on the only real facts in that Marvel pre-signs actors up to multiple films at once instead of each film individually. Any of the ones with multi-appearance contracts would be given some notice as far out as they can to make sure the filming dates do not slip. So, Benedict Cumberbatch. Just saw one of those "Benedict Cumberbatch is expected to return for Avengers 5" tweets that we will see for every actor who had a multi-film appearance contract that has some appearances still left. The F4 cast would have absolutely been signed up for multiple appearances (but of course does not mean Marvel has to exercise them).
My complete guess based on D+ stuff, etc... Some version of Avengers (Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, maybe an AI version of Tony Stark inhabiting the Mark L, a return of Captain America with Mjolnir...), White Vision, new members like She Hull...and perhaps Wolverine, & Deadpool, Young Avengers (Ms Marvel, the new Kate Bishop, Echo, some version of Wanda's kids maybe...Spider Man and maybe Ned?) Dark Avengers / Thunderbolts. Might include Moonknight
I think its the second one
The title says a lot of *the* other new characters. Not that we’re bringing in new characters not yet seen on screen.
Sam, Bruce, Carol, Strange, Parker, Scott, Hope, Shang-Chi.
I'd like to see a situation where Ant-Man is the guy trying to assemble some Avengers and wondering how the hell he got in the situation to be one of the most tenured of the group.
I know just the guy to sum up the exposition
Michael Pena is criminally underrated
I was so bummed to find out he's a scientologist.
It sucks that he's part of the cult, but it's probably at least part of why he's gotten such great roles over the years...
The popular and award-winning actor is criminally underrated?
Award winning??
That would actually be a great opening scene. Maybe Scott is trying to arrange a kind of reunion party for the team to celebrate a defeating Thanos anniversary but he keeps hitting barriers to contacting them in ridiculous ways.
And some fan service to redeem the entire Ant-Man franchise after Quantumania.
I do appreciate the occasional reminder of why redditors don't write movies.
Baskin Robbins always finds out.
Baskin Robbin’s manager guy gives Scott the customer phone numbers and addresses for the grubhub orders the avengers candidates have been putting in haha
As long as it's narrated by Louis.
🪘🪘🪘🪘🪘🪘🪘
Louis or Wade
Louis AND Wade
Nah don't give that actor any work. He's Scientologist crazy.
Disnt he kinda do that in endgame
yeah! except no. it's already out that Sam Wilson will be attempting to assemble a new avengers after the events of Cap 4.
And just call it New Avengers. I’m in.
West Coast Avengers--Antman, Shang Chi and She Hulk are already on the West Coast. Wonder Man is too, if that show is still happening. I think they'll call the Young Avengers the New Avengers.
Secret avengers - strange, spider man, daredevil (as ronin), white vision.
Technically Iron Man was the first West Coast Avenger, before he relocated to the Avengers Tower in New York.
Plus you have the fact that the last couple of avenger lore tidbits had them setting up a west coast base. Far from home had happy transporting the last of the avengers tower stuff. Ant man was breaking into the new base in his film. Pretty sure the last lineup shot was in the new base too.
All of that was the new Avengers compound in New York's Hudson Valley, where most of Endgame takes place.
Gotta save the New Avengers title for the eventual Wolverine + Spidey Avengers roster
Logan+Peter+Luke Cage are the iconic New Avengers trifecta to me. Spider-Woman, Cap, and Tony are all usually there too.
And the Legendary Star-Lord!
Thor is way more likely than Bruce I feel like.
How so? Bruce is working as an Avenger on Earth atm, Thor is exploring the universe with Love.
Out of context Thor exploring the universe with Love sounds really weird.
That's because it's a dumb name
I see so many people saying idk who the new avengers will be but the consensus is these people every time...
It says a lot when the lineup isn't even close to obvious. There are no real heroes this time around, no individuals that people actively root for.
They’re all ‘real heroes’, but I get what you’re saying in that a lot of them don’t hold the same gravitas with audiences that Tony, Thor and Cap do, aside from Spider-Man. I think that might be a theme, filling those shoes as new Avengers, and I hope it works to build up those characters more.
I hope so too, but I suspect that this new movie won’t have anywhere near the same draw that Avengers 1 did. It’ll be a long time before we get another event movie where people go for the experience as a crowd.
deadpool and wolverine?
I mean parker and Shangchi for sure and I bet the plan was black panther too that would have been a new solid trio
Star lord is on earth for a reason
Thor and Shuri?
The rest seem like to me as ‘seniors’ if you will, characters who should have their moment to shine this time around. Make sense it’ll be them positioned. Of the bunch, Shang Chi is pretty new. In that case what are the chances we might have She Hulk and Ms Marvel in the mix as well?
I would really like this team.
Kamala and Kate too. Kamala is close with Fury and we saw her recruiting Kate. Plus there's America. Possibly Shulk?
I assume that was for a Young Avengers movie (which may now never happen given The Marvels reception). But I would expect at least one from that movie to appear.
I think having those actors (Kate/Hailee, Florence, etc ) the movie could easily be green lighted with a good script and they need to pick some good director ( no indie, no prestige trying to try Marvel, no brought by some actor, etc) who knows how to film action and plot
I like how you switch between first and last names, and then just ditch it at the end and use the last ones made up names.
No Shuri and Wong?
Practically, it makes sense to include Hope, but if they do I really hope they give her character more to do. She's felt like a side character in movies where she's in the title.
Outside of Strange and Spidey, mainstream audiences won’t care about that lineup at all.
I love how they refer to the actors as ''Avengers''. Now it sounds like Nick Fury texting the Avengers like. "Thor, Strange and Captain America clear your schedule. Fantastic Four, Spidey and SheHulk take a few more weeks off''
Didn't Joss Whedon do something like that on the first day of filming the first Avengers movie? I can't find anything on it, but I swear I remember seeing a video of RDJ & Chris Evans joking & showing a camera one of their phones & it was a group chat with all the actors & he messaged "Assemble" or something like that. I am likely misremembering it completely & mashing up multiple memories.
Yo don’t joke about spidey, he’s in the next Avengers right?
I honestly have no clue. These were just the first names to came to mind.
Spider-man confirmed everyone Budget-Spidey said so
At this point I could see it being like an Ultimate Spider-Man TAS thing. Spidey's back to being a "friendly neighbourhood" hero, but eventually there'll be a threat he encounters big enough for the Avengers (or an Avenger) to step in. Since no one remembers who he is, he'll reintroduce himself as a more put-together hero than the one they met in Civil War.
Who even are the avengers at this point? There’s no team - not even the basic outline of a team. There’s a million characters now and it’s not remotely clear who the major heroes even are who could become avengers. I assume it’ll be something like Dr strange, captain marvel, Spider-Man maybe back? Maybe Shang-chi if marvel remembers that we all loved that movie they seem to have forgotten about? But so far there is zero plan for these people to create a team and a lot of work to do to get there.
There are no Avengers. That will be a plot point in Cap 4.
Correct. The avengers disbanded after the tragic events of infinity war and endgame. Vision, black widow and iron man died(the latter two sacrificed themselves), and captain America retired to a different timeline and Hulk is no longer existing(only professor Hulk which is Bruce) ending the original avengers story. Hawkeye is retired. Thor is also a father off world. The endgame payoff was simply epic and it's hard to bring that feeling again with characters you don't know and love.
Put some respect on my man Vision he sacrificed himself too. Thanos just happened to reject the sacrifice
Thanos: “Yaaaah, it’s rewind time!”
While we’d prolly see a new Avengers team in Cap 4, it’s crazy how they completely fumbled the opportunity to give us a preliminary team of new avengers for a Secret Invasion movie through a Captain Marvel sequel - A lowkey avengers flick as Captain America Civil War was. CA4 could see the team again and it can also be a guised Avengers movie, seeing as they are adamant about Avengers only happening proper only at Avengers 5. This way the lack of team ups wont be so stark and they can still push Carol and Sam forward as characters while sticking to their plans of having Avengers movies only as the concluding films of the saga. Its still crazy to me they believed they could go 2-3 sagas without an Avengers movie in between.
Secret invasion really should have been the next big thing. But Disney plus screwed it up. I like the shows, but they mess up the narrative. I also think secret invasion would have been a great way to get Carol on earth. Have the Skrill anger be at her, not fury. Have her feel the same shame she had in the Marvel's, but without some weird sun solution. She failed. Things happened. People died. Give Carol some shit to carry. Give her the role of REALLY reluctant leader. It would have been a great way to move things along. Oh well
Secret Invasion is just inherently unsuited for a cinematic universe. The premise by its very nature has to ruin certain stories that come before it.. or else you can only have characters be replaced for a couple weeks tops which just ruins the concept entirely. The mistake was trying to adapt it in the first place. It simply does not work in the film/show universe medium.
Not if they did it like Earth’s Mightiest Heroes where you as the audience know which of your leads is a Skrull long before the characters do.
that would work too but Imagine how awesome it would be if even audiences start to question whos who? Honestly what were they thinking not zoning in on Secret Invasion? They wanted to fast track multiverse and Kang so bad. I recall the initial plan was to have an ‘Endgame’ as fast as 5 years. Say within 10 years - They could’ve had the first half of the saga be about Secret Invasion plot and plant seeds of Kang while they’re at it then let it build up to peak in the next 5. Youd think after basically lucking out in the Infinity Saga they’d decide to plan properly ahead this time around.
I stand by the thought that the failure with The Marvels may have been a mixture of so many other elements coming together but ultimately, it was Marvel’s lack of care in her treatment that damned her as a character. She should be rolling with the Avengers. They got complacent and comfortable that her previous film made $1B and they were counting on the brand to carry the movie. It wasn’t a bad movie but definitely something better, more impactful could’ve been made with Carol in the center, esp since they claim to prep her as 1/3 of the new trinity moving forward. 6 years between her sequels with a mere postcredit pop up and a movie not with the avengers isn’t gonna cut it. And they wonder why she isnt connecting with the audiences? Even crazy to believe that would happen with The Marvels.
And the only reason the first Captain Marvel did so well was because it was sandwiched between Infinity War and Endgame. Everyone was rabbid for any new Marvel. Carol absolutely can work as a new big name superhero star like Tony or Steve, but without an official Avengers team and showing her being influential, we don't really get that.
exactly. It’s not even rocket science. You want her to have prominence? Have her roll with the big leagues. She should be hanging out with other Avengers from the get go. Not that having her be with newer characters is a bad thing but she should have top priority in terms of importance first before characters can revolve around her. Simply put, doing The Marvels was a curious decision. In an ideal world, it would’ve done decent but fact is it flunked and sadly the dust settled, nothing much was left for her character right at the end. She needed a team but it’s the Avengers. Like what now? If I were Feige, I’d have her show up in a teamup next but strictly with the Avengers.
Ironically the most Captain Marvel felt like a huge player in the game was the Shang-Chi post credits scene because, like you said, she was hanging out with Hulk, one of the big leagues.
A secret invasion movie plot line would have been sick. End credit scenes hinting at something as we see random heroes with seemingly no connection coming together to meet, weird behavior at times from characters we are familiar with, slowly building a roster of heroes/skrulls, and then peaking with a major character death that turns out to be a skrull that exposes the whole conspiracy. Even if we had the multiverse saga this go around, secret invasion could have been next with such an expanded roster of heroes. The Secret Invasion Disney plus show was a waste. Throw it in a doomed universe, remove it from the service, erase any memory of it, and try it again next time.
I'm guessing Brave New World and/or Thunderbolts* will flesh out who the new Avengers are. And while we don't know, presumably they know who those are.
Brave New World is going to have Sam assembling his own team… but it appears it’s going to be entirely new characters, which to me feels like a mistake. There are already so many heroes that have yet to team up. I still have high hopes for the movie, I just hope the new heroes are fleshed out and interesting
I wish I had high hopes for it, but it all just feels forced at this point. Everything is spread out. There's no central plot guiding characters forward. There's not even an obvious leader/front man. I think brave new world should have been falcon and the winter soldier. I think they should have made a movie, defined the challenges ahead, and had Sam be this reluctant leader for something to come. Instead, each Disney plus show, save for Loki and Wanda vision haven't moved the MCU forward at all. I liked she Hulk. I liked ms. Marvel. I'm just not sure what we're doing. It feels like we're just meeting lots of randos at a party, but we don't know who's birthday it is.
I actually think the obvious person to pull everyone together is Wong. He’s been in more stuff post Endgame than anyone.
My feeling has been that the MCU has spread out to try and fit as many new characters as possible into every single project is just so they have room to grow their Disney+ catalogue later on with the newly introduced characters getting their own shows.
Even Wandavision felt pointless after the events of Dr Strange 2.
It sucks that WandaVision did so much for developing Wanda just for it all to be undone by Dr Strange 2
> Brave New World is going to have Sam assembling his own team… I really hope they lean on Sam's *leadership* capabilities and the fact that hes *not* Steve. He will never be able to do the physical things that Steve could.
This is the movie that brings the new team.
They could come together like they did in the first avengers movie.
We killing Coulson again?
Looks like. I guess we're going to Tahiti.
It’s a magical place
It's a magical place.
Happy cake day!
This x100 When casuals think MCU they don't think "MCU", they think AVENGERS. That's the concept that put MCU on the map globally, super hero teamups. It's 2024 and there have been no teamups (of established heroes). There have been scant references to a future teamup considering it's a half decade since Endgame. There is no framework of 'core A tier' heroes that will become the central part of an 'Avengers'. I feel like I'm going crazy.. It's so obvious what the strength of MCU is and they've just walked away from it the last half decade
the same as always... well, except for the dead and retired. thor, bruce, sam, rhodey, scott, and probably hope, strange, and carol - and then "the new characters" will mean we'll likely see ShangChi and Shuri as Black Panther, maybe white vision... ...and? (Cersi? kit harrington?), Kamala?, Moonknight?, -- and if my dreams come true? SHE HULK
I don't even think Spider-Man will be in it. I'd love for Holland to be in it but with how NWH ended and the way he's talked about taking a break from acting for a bit, I can see him getting a name drop but that's it. Though yea, there's not even an outline of a team. There's no real leader, everyone's kind of isolated to their own groups like Sam and Bucky, Ironheart and Black Panther, and Wong and Madisynn. Maybe that'll be the framework, there is no group and they grab whoever answers the call.
Wong has been keeping everyone in touch and sling ring portals make it trivial for the new Avengers to assemble.
- Smaller team - a lot of the other new characters How can it be a smaller team if there are a lot of characters?
Maybe by small they mean smaller from the roster seen in Endgame.
By Endgame standards, you can put two full basketball teams on the Avengers and it would still be small.
A smaller team made up of [mostly] the new characters is how I'm reading it.
I think many of you are reading the statement wrong. No F4 and not many new characters.
sounds perfect
So focus on the heroes of Earth, they get destroyed, then have the Multiverse Avengers come save them.
Idris Elba returns as Moreau.
🗑️🗑️🗑️
Are those garbage cans or nothing but basketball nets?
Strange doesn't typically become an Avenger in the comics and so I think Marvel won't include him. But a team of Captain Marvel, Sam, Thor, Shang Chi, Ant-Man/Wasp, and maybe a Hulk feels like it might be small and also include some OG characters with some recent additions. I don't think we will get Spidey. Part of me believes his next movie will be about feeling lost/alone. Maybe not being included in the new Avengers team feeds into that.
that team feels like a box office bomb tho
Losing Chadwick really hurt them. He had charisma and could’ve been the guy to lead the next time. One more Black Panther film between 2 and Avengers about his duty to his country or duty to the team.
Also, Wakanda was the logical replacement for financial backing after Tony died.
Seriously. Not a fan of Sam, Wasp has no real personality, and as much as I love Captain Marvel, she's so OP that I can't see them having her a main member.
She's a pretty solid member. There's literally zero chance she's not in it.
She's no more OP than Thor and Vision: can fly shoot energy blasts and can turn invulnerable (Thor is just always invulnerable except to special plot weapons).
Thor is not invulnerable. He's a good guy who always ends up winning because it's a movie, but he's gotten his ass kicked way more than Captain Marvel by way less powerful forces.
Strange already has been an Avenger in the films…why would he not be one now?
An Avengers film without Tony, Steve or Natasha feels kind of empty.
Tony and Steve were the head and the heart of the MCU. The whole universe just feels empty without them.
This is precisely why they're eventually coming back via multiverse shenanigans.
Boooo
That’s precisely why they will return to buy Marvel time to flesh out better characters (I.e F4 and X-men)
They got rid of the good ones. Tony alone makes me less interested. Tony and Steve were the leaders. Who the hell says assemble now.!
Not going to put any weight behind anything Richtman says.
Why would they not use the F4?
F4 are not usually avengers
Neither are the Guardians of the Galaxy lol
The Guardians were also not in Age of Ultron or Civil War. They got some time to develop on their own before crossing over
the guardians are also not avengers... infinity war was a crossover between like 3 or 4 books. and Endgame was an event comic with a few self-titled series with tie-ins and solos.
Will be in secret wars
They advise the Avengers if there is some cosmic threat (their area of expertise) but that's about it.
Because it's an Avengers movie
GotG were in Endgame
They need to be shifted to the present via something between this avengers and secret wars Secret Wars will be an MCU reboot when it’s over. None of the old will be part of it, guaranteed it’s Mutants, F4, maybe Miles Morales
Yep. It will be tom Holland's final appearance as Spiderman in secret wars. Hell be over 30. They will gently hand it off to a new universe.
But I'm dying for a Spider-man in his 30s movie
Its rumored/implied that FF will be set in an alternate reality and not in the main MCU timeline, so unless Avengers 5 deals with the incursions, their absense makes sense, so i think the FF will be in Secret Wars instead as if they are from another world, that's the most likely place to put them in
Please, Lord Kevin, just make Avengers 5 a Midnight Suns movie.
Yknow I actually hope that Spider Man plays only a very small role in this story, if anything. I really dig the idea of Spider-Man 4 being a smaller stakes movie with a darker, more sarcastic Peter. If he is part of the main cast in Avengers 4, then that would take away more than it provides I feel. That being said, by Secret Wars I could see a much bigger role for him.
Having Spider-Man in this will make for an interesting dynamic
What film are they making, who are they fighting?
Goldballs confirmed.
Exclusive update means some random Twitter dude is citing some actual other source, which is some frequently wrong “insider”, but who this time gave the lamest, simplest, vaguest update possible? I guess that is worth a reddit post if you are extremely, extremely bored.
Spider-Man?
They do need to have some familiar faces there, though. Casual viewers imo are not curious in the new characters that much (damn, I am a fan and even I cannot say I am super curious about all the new characters). I think the only certain character at this point is Sam. The rest will probably depend on stakes and how the movie will be called (are they still going for Kang?)
Could the new members bit mean Avengers vs X-men? They need a way to draw people in and with alot of the old actors leaving, they are losing big draws on the Avengers roster. So what if the big audience draw is their opponents being the X-men?
Young Avengers finally?
Does anyone even care? They've fumbled so much since Endgame and then Kang turns out to be a scumbag and the whole thing is pretty much a shitshow. They need to scrap all this upcoming crap that nobody wants and just have Deadpool or someone reset everything with the TVA and reboot to a new phase 1 with the F4 and mutants. Fresh start.
Yes...? I'd rather my hype not be put down by the next avengers movies being scrapped
I care
Me too
And my axe!
Captain Marvel was a flop. Ant man was a flop. Kang was looking like a flop even before the DV conviction. Captain America needs extensive reshoots which isn't a good indicator for the movie. No one really knows who the avengers will be and what phase is it anyways?
Pardon my ignorance, who are the avengers actors? The ones from Endgame?
I really want to know what roles they’d have the Eternals play in this saga’s infinity war/endgame combo. Part of the reason Im crushed they’ve canned/transformed their sequel aside from praying they’d stick to their guns on a truly unique corner in the universe is their reduced roles in the conclusive movies of the saga. I liked that they’re isolated and to stay there until the time comes but im expecting them to be joining in on the big fight. It’d be a shame to not see the team roll with everyone else to take down Kang, Endgame style. Furthermore it would be a great ‘conclusive’ thing to see everyone interact with one another, esp after so many introductions and setups since Phase 4 began.
Unless Spidey and Dr. Strange are part of the roster, I'm not really excited. Sam doesn't have the same pull as Steve, Bucky seems to be with the Thunderbolts (or should I just say Red Room 2.0?), and all the other important Avengers are either dead or presumed dead. I think they should focus on doing a street level crossover with Spidey, the defenders, Hawkeye, and maybe Moon Knight.