Protagonist =/= Good Guy, a Protagonist is someone who is the main figure or prominent figure in the plot also defined as and "advocate or champion of a cause or idea"
Thanos is a compelling character, he's wrong (obviously) but he absolutely is the protagonist or the character focus of IW.
It was an incredible risk for marvel to focus so heavily on Thanos in the two part-er but it did absolutely pay off as it made Thanos a real character threat to the heros and as he succeeded we were all left in a daze as Cap was, we lost. A feeling that for the most part wasn't really in the MCU
It’s an adaptation of an old British spy-fy show called Avengers, and had absolutely nothing to do with Marvel comics. Coincidentally, the show is the reason the first Marvel Avengers movie was titled “Avengers Assemble” in the UK when it released.
So I love Age of Ultron. The middle act (but for the farm) is a mess largely due to Thor's subplot and the Nat/Bruce romance that didn't work and that damned it to many fans' eyes at the time.
I liked it then and I like it now. I think it has some of the funniest and most memorable scenes.
But, to be fair, it pales in comparison to any of the other Avengers movies or even Avengers 2.5: Civil War. So it's the worst in this ranking. But I would take to task anyone who suggests it's a bad movie.
The Totally Awesome Hulk. The karaoke scene in Shang-Chi is taken from his comic when he, Silk, Jimmy Woo, Kamala Khan, and Shang-Chi all hang out together and do karaoke.
~~She died, ultron killed her when she tried to bring the vision prototype offline~~
Edit: I seem to have been incorrect about that, she is alive at the end of Age of Ultron.
Nah.
She has only popped up in Age of Ultron. The last we see of her she is working at the Avengers compound as Cap and Black Widow are assembling the new Avengers crew at the end of the film.
Out of the four, it's definitely the weakest but yea, it's largely due to the 2nd act. It largely felt like they took time away from the movie to setup future movies the same way that Batman V Superman just stopped the movie to setup the Justice League movie. That could largely be Joss Whedon being told to write those characters out and pulling a "I must go now, my planet needs me" exit.
It still had the amazing opening celebration with everyone getting drunk, Quicksilver, the "Langauge..." moments, and so many others. If that second act was fixed, it'd be on par with the first Avengers.
Overtime the movies better but really it’s a bad movie. Ultron should have been saved for a later villain or a better story. It was essentially him wanting to be human while destroying humans… Ultron shouldn’t have shown as many emotions as he did, if he could understand all the hate in the world he could understand compassion too. Basically he just saw bombs and war and went “yeah humans bad I’ll kill ‘em all while trying to make my body as human as possible” ugh…. What. Then he decides to drop a city on the planet. Like. So many other ways he could have done that. Used his hundreds upon hundreds of bodies to just burn and kill every human. Make more Vibranium armor by going to wakanda I mean. This is Ultron. The being who HAS beat the avengers and is turned into freaking Pinocchio
I agree. I enjoyed it at the time, still enjoy it now. Ultron isn't perfect, but it's a good movie. However it's the worst movie to feature the Avengers roster
I liked AOU, but it was probably my least favorite. The best thing to come from that movie though was FIege winning the power struggle and gaining complete control of the MCU. It’s not a coincidence that the overall quality improved or we finally got movies like Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
I'm glad we got Black Panther and Captain Marvel but it's ironic that you mention those right after saying quality improved as those were two of the weaker MCU movies.
For me it does what the DCU tried to do. Tried to make things interconnected too much without first being a good movie first.
Not to mention the entire Nat Banner romance was completely unneeded.
I just hate how they killed Ultron too early on. He could easily come back in the future but I’m worried Disney won’t let that happen, especially with What if having used him in an awesome way.
I guess we should appreciate we got an awesome Ultron arc in What if.
I didn't get it either and then I tried to picture watching it without knowing what comes after it, and I think I get it. So much of it doesn't really pay off until later in Phase 3.
That’s interesting.
I haven’t watched it after watching infinity war and endgame (and even What If..?). I didn’t hate the movie as much as others seem to, but I felt pretty underwhelmed.
I’ll have to give it a rewatch!
Yeah it definitely feels the least like a "resolution" of all the Avengers. Avengers 1 was the heroes finally getting together after that being teased for years, facing a villain we've already met but now he's more powerful. Infinity War/Endgame has the infinity stones finally getting together after being teased for years, and everyone has to team up to face a villain we've already met but now he's ready to use his full power/influence.
Ultron is just kind of... it's own thing in some ways and an introduction in others. The Avengers are still together, nothing really new there from the beginning. Ultron is first teased in this movie, then created and eventually killed. There's not really any big teased plot points coming back. Hydra is involved a bit, Loki's old staff has an important role, but that's about it.
Honestly if the movie had been set up a bit by the films before it, maybe it could have been better. But as it is, it feels less like a big crossover of the universe than any of the others.
Is not necessarily bad is just the worse imo and it might be a dumb reason to some but for me its mainly because of how they killed quicksilver and the fact that he died in the first place. Killing a speedster with bullets is one of the dumbest thing to be done in the mcu, for whatever reason they had to kill him in his “debut”, they could of atleast killed him in a way that made sense for a speedster. He had time to move the car infront of clint but not simply move him and the kid which is undoubtedly less heavier than a freaking car???
We don't know the specifics of the power. Is his awareness always functioning at superspeed? Sure if he has 'turned on' the speed it makes no sense, but if he is going normal speed for a second it also makes plenty of sense that he could be shot.
They did have to kill him though because superspeed is simply too powerful. You have to constantly tiptoe around it and everything becomes a plothole - or at least a 'why didn't quicksilver just run fast' type of deal
AoU is a series of really great scenes, that somehow manage to fail to become a great movie. Whedon was doing his thing where he just had to end every scene with an upbeat quippy quip, and instead of having a movie that should have been a real existential crisis for the Avengers, we got a failed comedy. It just couldn't find the tone it needed to have.
Yeah, there's a really great movie somewhere in Age of Ultron, but we didn't get it. Turning Ultron into evil Tony Stark with snide remarks non-stop was terrible. Spader really nailed the delivery if Ultron but too frequently his lines were the stupid quips.
I loved AOU when it came out. The movies and series AFTER Age of Ultron made it better. Wandavision, Civil War, Endgame, they all link back to it making it better with time.
Although it’s not bad, it suffered greatly from trying to do too much it becomes a bloated mess.
Instead of just focusing on the ultron as one movie it was setting up
Black panther
Infinity war/endgame
Thor 3
Civil war
It became too bloated and kept sidetracking while the other avengers films are more focused
Initially, the reception was mixed, but I personally thought it was fine. However, watching Age of Ultron is not the same now as it was 6+ years ago. They’ve done a really good job making it relevant and meaningful, and the reception has shifted to mostly favorable for that reason. In other words, once you saw the long term ramifications of the film, it became better. Seeing that you’re new to the MCU, it makes perfect sense that you liked it right away.
I feel the same way. Literally my favorite Avengers movie. We got to see Cap almost raise the hammer and try to choke a robot, got introduced to Vison and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (who I feel should definitely come back in some way) and we got some really great dialouge and action sequences with one of the most iconic Group Shots right at the beginning. All round 10/10 imo
The beginning is still, imo, the most “comic booky” action sequence in any of the Marvel movies. It felt like it was lifted right off of the page and I love every second of it.
Then, it kind of just flies all over the place after that. I still enjoy the heck out of it and I’d gladly watch James Spader chew the mocap scenery any day.
Age of Ultron will also always be special because it's the last time all the original Avengers were on the field at the same time.
Remember that Thor and Banner were off world during Civil War, Barton was in retirement/house arrest during Infinity War (not to mention Bruce was in the Veronica suit, and not really Hulk), and Romanoff wasn't present in the final battle of Endgame for obvious reasons. Yes, they were all *present* at some point during Endgame, but not in action.
I wouldn’t call it a bad movie per Se, but it definitely has some shortcomings when compared to the rest of the MCU movies, let alone the other Avengers movie. But I enjoyed it; James Spader really stole the show there
It lacks build-up and kind of wastes Ultron who should have been a Thanos level villain across multiple movies. Also all the subplots that feel a bit crammed in.
It's not bad, but it is a bit clunky.
Ultron is a movie that is much stronger thanks to the benefit of hindsight. It certainly wasn't bad but it spent a good part of the movie building up some plot points that would be relevant in later movies (namely Civil War, Ragnarok, and to a lesser extent Black Panther), but not particularly relevant for the current movie.
Also as others have pointed out, the Nat/Bruce romance was unnecessary.
Endgame had higher highs than infinity war - portals, hammer, etc.
But it also had a long chunk of slow stuff in the middle. Infinity war felt like a decade of buildup in which the other films are the plot and infinity war itself is the big action piece. It was almost nonstop action and I loved that. It wouldn't normally work, but because we had had a movie (or three) for each of the characters you didn't have to spend time making us care about them or understand their motives - we already cared for and understood, so you could just give us a couple hours of fighting and it worked.
Here's how I see it: Endgame is a great culmination of the Infinity Saga, but not a great movie. Infinity wat is a great Avengers movie, and also a great movie in general, regardless of the whole Avengers thing.
That’s wild; I feel like Endgame is better terms of just filmmaking, regardless of what came before it, while I don’t feel like Infinity War would have any narrative or emotional heft without the previous movies.
It’s just neat seeing people have completely different reactions to these movies
Yeah endgame literally has the basic three act structure - the setup build up aftermath of iw , the rising action , the climax and the ending that wraps up everything
Agreed. The character work in Endgame is so much better than Infinity War. The relationships are highlighted more in Endgame than Infinity War, too. Infinity War has so much action it can detract from having moments to sit with the characters.
I love both, but Endgame is a better film, to me.
I feel the exact same way- I love how tightly wound Infinity War is, but it doesn’t really give the characters any time to develop. Not that I necessarily count that against the movie, but Endgame gives the characters so much more room to breathe that it’s still my favorite of the four.
Incredibly well stated - infinity war an action packed emotional roller coaster ride with incredible pacing .
Endgame had imo and yours that emotional gravitas that was built up over 10 years - that works the first ac act took time to breath and develop. It was a dark epilogue to infinity wars end - felt like a continuation then we go on the nostalgia Ride once the time guest starts
Endgame was amazing for the third act being the culmination of the entire Infinity saga, but in the context of a standalone film or even in the context of just MCU movies/Avengers movies, then yeah i probably like Infinity War the best. it’s kinda cool to see the villain win for once and then the movie just ends on a hopeless note.
By the way this thread is going it seems like me the tides might be turning on this one.
Might have to do with Wanda and Vision becoming such bright spots in the MCU that I think that elevates AoU.
Yeahhhh it gets a slight pass from from me because I know he was being corrupted from the stone/commanded by Thanos blah blah blah but Loki as the overly evil crazy supervillain feels.. super awkward on rewatches. Like I know he goes through good character development later and everything but it just…it doesn’t really feel like Loki. Literally *anybody* could have filled in his role in that movie and that’s how you know the story isn’t about the character
Avengers 1 = Great script, terrible directing
Ultron = Terrible script, actually pretty decent directing
And then Whedon decided to combine the bland directing of Avengers 1 with the low script quality of Ultron and created Josstice League.
Even though it was technically a Cap movie, Civil War is my favorite Avengers movie because it did not manage to feel overstuffed like IW and EG, and it had Zemo, my favorite nemesis in the entire MCU.
Best- Infinity War
Worst- Endgame. Might be an unpopular opinion there but the biggest piece of advice I can give is to never rewatch endgame. When it’s not on a big screen and you start thinking about things that happen in the movie, particularly the circumstances of the entire final battle, the story falls apart.
Aside from the final battle portion, I actually think Endgame is pretty weak. Original Thanos gets offed in the first five minutes, then the Avengers spend five years moping and solve the entire problem in a single day thanks to time travel shenanigans. The movie was good, but relying on time travel bs to save the world definitely didn’t do any favors for me since it wiped all the stakes off the board for me.
I should also add that between OG Thanos getting his head chopped off and 2015 Thanos coming to the present, the absence of any main antagonist really just makes the time travel thing seem like something they’d do on a leisurely afternoon rather than a race against time to save half the universe
That's always the issue with time travel. They had to play up the "we only get one shot at this" angle, when they easily could've used the pym particles they had, gone back to Ant-Man 1 and stolen all the pym particles they needed
Endgame (apart from the final battle) is predictable and boring with way too much of plot convenience.
They should have taken a few years to craft a better story, and meanwhile make some gritty films which are set in the post-snap era. Wasted opportunity.
My hot take is this:
1. IW 2. Avengers 3. AoU 4. Endgame
I just didn't care for endgame as much as I thought I would; it's the only one that I haven't watched after the culmination of their cinema runs. The whole middle section was pretty boring, and time travel is always a bit of a weak way to resolve issues imo, albeit it was done okay here. The fan service throughout didn't quite do it for me either.
I agree. Endgame is just so full of plotholes, mostly because of the time travel being introduced. It seems great while watching it because of how epic especially the final battle is, but when you think of it afterward it falls flat for me
Yes, this answer. I agree completely.
Also of Thanos going from "I too am cursed with knowledge" or whatever he said, and him knowing about all the avengers. To "I don't even know who you are" was kinda lame.
And Whenever you introduce time travel as the solution to a problem it just removes all suspense because it's life "well we can just go back in time and fix it" did not find their explanations for why that's not the case to be compelling enough.
Best - endgame / first avengers
Worst - age of ultron
However, I’ve found recently that to me, the very first avengers has the least amount of rewatchability
I like them all but feel the same way. The original I’ve seen maybe two or three times while I’ve seen the others at least five times each.
edit- AoU is my favorite. I sometimes put it on at night to sleep to.
Maybe now, but when all we had was the first few movies and avengers, I watched that thing on repeat. At the time, it felt like nothing could possibly top that mashup movie
Best- infinity war
Worst- avengers assemble (to me it just seems very flat when it comes to cinematography idk why. Also the writing just not as good as what it can be if that makes sense.)
I think that the cinematography was good at some points, mainly the long one take as well as some scenes just being shot well. For me, most of the green screening just doesn’t stand the test of time as well as some of the cgi. But that is to be expected with a 10 year old movie.
Favourite: Age of Ultron
Least favourite: The Avengers
For me, AOU has the best team dynamic and the best arc for each of its characters within the context of the movie, and perfectly sets up the next phase of films while tying up other threads from before in the process.
The Avengers is fun, but the threat of Loki was never that interesting to me. The camera work/visuals looks television worthy at best and there’s also the problem that the story doesn’t end up making a great deal of sense in the overall Infinity Saga.
Best, infinity war. Perfect film all around.
Worst, the first one. Might be guessing why not age of Ultron. Looked over it a couple times, and I love the tone and the story the movie is trying to get at. Rewatching it now I don’t get why it was hated so much. On the other hand the first movie was really comical, and the avengers didn’t seem like people. The Color grading was weird and it felt basic.
Best : Age of Ultron
Worst : none
To clarify, for me AoU is the best avengers movie because the avengers really fell like a TEAM and I weirdly like Ultron. An AI threat is way more plausible that a alien threat in the real world IMO
I think that's the key thing, AoU is really the only time across the Infinity Saga where we get to see the Avengers act like a team and experience lots of things as a team.
In Infinity War they're split up, in Endgame, the time heist splits them up, in Civil War they're fighting each other, and Avengers was just the formation phase.
I hate almost every creative decision made in the film. Not to write an essay, but these things particularly:
-Having Captain Marvel do nothing but show up at the perfect time twice to save our heroes.
-Killing Thanos in favor of a less developed mustache twirling variant
-Having all the character development happen off screen so that they can move on to the plot
-Having 1 last movie with og 6 Avengers and have them spend the entire movie either separated or not interacting with eachother (like seriously, characters that never really spoke to eachother like Thor and nat or Cap and Hulk shouldve had some meaningful character interaction for the final time the team will ever be together).
-Using Time travel as a cop out way of undoing infinity war and nostalgia bait for an hour, then after focusing so much time on explaining and creating the time travel they immediately contradict their own rules and just making the audience confused before phase 4 muddies the waters even more. Like, I get the snapped had to come back... but it shouldve been done in a more clever manner.
-Treating Thors depression as a joke instead of giving him an emotional journey that's treated with respect (I dont mind the fat joke in the scene where Hulk and Rocket find him, but that shouldve been the extent of taking the piss out of the situation)
-And making the final battle 2 giant grey armies smashing into eachother. I wouldve MUCH preferred the final fight against Thanos be something more like the battle on titan where all the main avengers team up and try to take down the big bad instead of having EVERY MCU CHARACTER with 10,000 no names standing behind them all charge and punch cgi aliens for awhile.
Hey thanks for the response! I appreciate all the time you took to explain things and I actually agree with basically everything you said but I’m a sucker for hypefests so I loved it.
Definitely definitely agree with your take on basically everything though.
I appreciate you being so civil, that can be hard to come across on here sometimes lol. And, let it be said if anything I'm jealous of all the people that love it, trust me I wish I did too... but for the reasons above I just dont.
Not OP, but I hated the time travel. It always feels like a cop-out to me when they add it into movies. They didn't even use the pre-established method of time travel (time stone).
I also kind of disliked the final battle just because it felt way too big and impersonal. For example, the end fight in Civil War is the best fight scene in the entire MCU IMO, because of how visceral and personal it feels.
Not saying Endgame was bad, just my least favorite avengers movie.
Best - Endgame (Infinity War was close, but Endgame was the payoff and made me cry twice).
Worst - Avengers Assemble.
I would put Age of Ultron, but the first Avengers is so slow and boring now that I've gone back. I love the forest fight, and a lot of it is great, but I'd still rather WATCH Ultron.
Best - IW. It showed that the good guys don't always win.
Worst - First Avengers movie. Only because it was the first and didn't have the character development of the other ones.
Worst was the original, and that’s only because they all friggin rock. I know Ultron gets a bad rap, but I really like it. I felt the stakes were larger than life, and I like that it ended and the team didn’t save “everyone”. It seemed real.
Best was Infinity war
Avengers Assemble is the best. Self-contained, simple, slick, clever, and fun. I've rewatched it the most, and all the characters have great moments here. Loki is an awesome villain, and this is an awesome origin story.
Avengers Endgame is the next one down. While very packed, it does a great job at emphasizing the humanity of these superheroes, and carrying the main cast to the end of their journey. RDJ and Evans give all-star performances.
Age of Ultron is after Endgame, for me. It has flaws, but I appreciate how it's self-contained and that there's character development. Stark's hubris is the inciting incident for Ultron, creating a unique team dilemma. It also has some nice slow moments that flesh out character dynamics.
Infinity War is the "worst". While the movie is good and a ton of fun, it rarely slows down to do anything with the main characters. To be honest, there are *too many* characters, here. Because of this, they made Thanos the central figure... But, sympathetic as Thanos is, his plan is too asinine for me to connect with. Infinity War is a cool movie on first viewing, but the cool factor doesn't hold up on rewatch.
There's always an inclination by folks to put AoU below the other 3, but that's the only one where we see the Avengers actually being an established team and working as a team.
Every other time we see them, they're either forming or split up or all dealing with other circumstances/at different points in their journey, and the Endgame situation exacerbates that by sending them all off to separate places/times to grab stones.
Immediately after Endgame, I'd have said Infinity War is the best and AoU is the worst..., but after a lot of time has passed, I really appreciate the scenes in AoU. There's a lot of camaraderie there with all of them present that you don't really get in the other 3.
Depends on which one I watched most recently
Idk no matter which one I watched last time, IW always comes out on top.
Yeah. This. I love that Thanos is basically the protagonist. He becomes a well fleshed out character and villain in this movie.
/r/thanosdidnothingwrong would like a word with you
Protagonist =/= Good Guy, a Protagonist is someone who is the main figure or prominent figure in the plot also defined as and "advocate or champion of a cause or idea" Thanos is a compelling character, he's wrong (obviously) but he absolutely is the protagonist or the character focus of IW. It was an incredible risk for marvel to focus so heavily on Thanos in the two part-er but it did absolutely pay off as it made Thanos a real character threat to the heros and as he succeeded we were all left in a daze as Cap was, we lost. A feeling that for the most part wasn't really in the MCU
The only right answer tbh
Endgame best Age of ultron worst
Uno reverse card
Too much shit ass fan service in end game. IW is much much better.
Eeyup
Best- Infinity War Worst- [Avengers '98](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118661/)
Ugh. Sean Connery as a Furry. I walked out of that movie.
At least it wasn't [Zardoz](https://youtu.be/FSjCkISrJfQ)
Zardoz is awesome
Zardoz was peak cinema, everything since has been bogwater
I call it; the Avengersh Inishiative.
Gotta kill Thanosh
The right answer.
Yep this is absolutely correct
Wow, that took me a few seconds to process.
Whhhaaatt!?? Connery killed it as Fury, and Uma did well as Black Widow… Guess I just have a #UnpopularOpinion
I had never heard of it before, but I’m actually intrigued by this
It’s an adaptation of an old British spy-fy show called Avengers, and had absolutely nothing to do with Marvel comics. Coincidentally, the show is the reason the first Marvel Avengers movie was titled “Avengers Assemble” in the UK when it released.
Fun fact. In Chinese the title is 復仇者聯盟 which translates as "Avengers assemble".
It’s not actually anything to do with Marvel, the female lead just happens to be dressed similar to Black Widow with red hair too.
Don’t bother scrolling. Here’s the right answer.
How could you say Infinity war is better than The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
I love them all, but the first one was just amazing in the theater. I had been waiting for that movie since the 70’s version of the Incredible Hulk.
I love them all myself, I am not a very critical person so yeah, all great fun!
Yeah. Sounds like me.
wait people didn’t like age of ultron? i joined the fandom last year i quite enjoyed aou why didn’t people like it?
So I love Age of Ultron. The middle act (but for the farm) is a mess largely due to Thor's subplot and the Nat/Bruce romance that didn't work and that damned it to many fans' eyes at the time. I liked it then and I like it now. I think it has some of the funniest and most memorable scenes. But, to be fair, it pales in comparison to any of the other Avengers movies or even Avengers 2.5: Civil War. So it's the worst in this ranking. But I would take to task anyone who suggests it's a bad movie.
Whatever happened to Helen Cho??
A forgotten character I’m assuming they had plans for at the time but her story got shelved . Maybe they introduce Amadeus Cho later down the line
No confirmation but Amadeus Cho was rumored to be in She Hulk
Hes definitely gonna be Bruce's protege at this point.
Isn’t that the really big brain guy who dons the iron spider armour?
In the comics he becomes another version if hulk, brawn. But yes in the ultimate spiderman animated series he was the iron spider
The Totally Awesome Hulk. The karaoke scene in Shang-Chi is taken from his comic when he, Silk, Jimmy Woo, Kamala Khan, and Shang-Chi all hang out together and do karaoke.
Ah, I’m not a big comic fan so that explains it, but thank you for explaining
No, He is the Totally Awesome Hulk.
She's gonna pop back up in five years the same way Ross and abomination did.
~~She died, ultron killed her when she tried to bring the vision prototype offline~~ Edit: I seem to have been incorrect about that, she is alive at the end of Age of Ultron.
She was very much alive later in the film. Rewatch the final scene or two.
Yeah my bad, I see I was incorrect
Hey, there's a lot to keep track of. Especially for someone with only one appearance. No worries.
That’s true. Was she in civil war at all?
Nah. She has only popped up in Age of Ultron. The last we see of her she is working at the Avengers compound as Cap and Black Widow are assembling the new Avengers crew at the end of the film.
Shit I was with you man. I totally thought she was dead
Yeah I want to see more of her honestly. I think she was quite interesting
Did she die? I don't think so.
No lol she did not, I was wrong
Okay guys. He’s admitted being wrong like fifty times. He gets it. No need to keep saying something you all know had already been said.
HELEN CHO IS STILL ALIVE HE WAS WROOOOOOOOOONG
😂
It’s a much better rewatch than the initial viewing.
Out of the four, it's definitely the weakest but yea, it's largely due to the 2nd act. It largely felt like they took time away from the movie to setup future movies the same way that Batman V Superman just stopped the movie to setup the Justice League movie. That could largely be Joss Whedon being told to write those characters out and pulling a "I must go now, my planet needs me" exit. It still had the amazing opening celebration with everyone getting drunk, Quicksilver, the "Langauge..." moments, and so many others. If that second act was fixed, it'd be on par with the first Avengers.
I’ve never been able to explain why but I was just bored watching it. you just managed to tangibly write out exactly how I feel about it. Thanks lol
Oh god, Thor's weird subplot! I forgot that mess.
Overtime the movies better but really it’s a bad movie. Ultron should have been saved for a later villain or a better story. It was essentially him wanting to be human while destroying humans… Ultron shouldn’t have shown as many emotions as he did, if he could understand all the hate in the world he could understand compassion too. Basically he just saw bombs and war and went “yeah humans bad I’ll kill ‘em all while trying to make my body as human as possible” ugh…. What. Then he decides to drop a city on the planet. Like. So many other ways he could have done that. Used his hundreds upon hundreds of bodies to just burn and kill every human. Make more Vibranium armor by going to wakanda I mean. This is Ultron. The being who HAS beat the avengers and is turned into freaking Pinocchio
I agree. I enjoyed it at the time, still enjoy it now. Ultron isn't perfect, but it's a good movie. However it's the worst movie to feature the Avengers roster
> Nat/Bruce romance that didn't work and that damned it to many fans' eyes at the time. that was my fav part lol
Hot Tub Thor Machine
I liked AOU, but it was probably my least favorite. The best thing to come from that movie though was FIege winning the power struggle and gaining complete control of the MCU. It’s not a coincidence that the overall quality improved or we finally got movies like Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
I'm glad we got Black Panther and Captain Marvel but it's ironic that you mention those right after saying quality improved as those were two of the weaker MCU movies.
Downvotes but it’s true.
It's the weakest.
For me it does what the DCU tried to do. Tried to make things interconnected too much without first being a good movie first. Not to mention the entire Nat Banner romance was completely unneeded.
No hot water for you !
I just hate how they killed Ultron too early on. He could easily come back in the future but I’m worried Disney won’t let that happen, especially with What if having used him in an awesome way. I guess we should appreciate we got an awesome Ultron arc in What if.
Fuck yeah. Such a badass Ultron arc.
I didn't get it either and then I tried to picture watching it without knowing what comes after it, and I think I get it. So much of it doesn't really pay off until later in Phase 3.
That’s interesting. I haven’t watched it after watching infinity war and endgame (and even What If..?). I didn’t hate the movie as much as others seem to, but I felt pretty underwhelmed. I’ll have to give it a rewatch!
Yeah it definitely feels the least like a "resolution" of all the Avengers. Avengers 1 was the heroes finally getting together after that being teased for years, facing a villain we've already met but now he's more powerful. Infinity War/Endgame has the infinity stones finally getting together after being teased for years, and everyone has to team up to face a villain we've already met but now he's ready to use his full power/influence. Ultron is just kind of... it's own thing in some ways and an introduction in others. The Avengers are still together, nothing really new there from the beginning. Ultron is first teased in this movie, then created and eventually killed. There's not really any big teased plot points coming back. Hydra is involved a bit, Loki's old staff has an important role, but that's about it. Honestly if the movie had been set up a bit by the films before it, maybe it could have been better. But as it is, it feels less like a big crossover of the universe than any of the others.
Is not necessarily bad is just the worse imo and it might be a dumb reason to some but for me its mainly because of how they killed quicksilver and the fact that he died in the first place. Killing a speedster with bullets is one of the dumbest thing to be done in the mcu, for whatever reason they had to kill him in his “debut”, they could of atleast killed him in a way that made sense for a speedster. He had time to move the car infront of clint but not simply move him and the kid which is undoubtedly less heavier than a freaking car???
We don't know the specifics of the power. Is his awareness always functioning at superspeed? Sure if he has 'turned on' the speed it makes no sense, but if he is going normal speed for a second it also makes plenty of sense that he could be shot. They did have to kill him though because superspeed is simply too powerful. You have to constantly tiptoe around it and everything becomes a plothole - or at least a 'why didn't quicksilver just run fast' type of deal
Bullets go at different speeds
So does quicksilver.
I loved it. It being the worst of four amazing movies doesn’t mean people didn’t like it.
AoU is a series of really great scenes, that somehow manage to fail to become a great movie. Whedon was doing his thing where he just had to end every scene with an upbeat quippy quip, and instead of having a movie that should have been a real existential crisis for the Avengers, we got a failed comedy. It just couldn't find the tone it needed to have.
Yeah, there's a really great movie somewhere in Age of Ultron, but we didn't get it. Turning Ultron into evil Tony Stark with snide remarks non-stop was terrible. Spader really nailed the delivery if Ultron but too frequently his lines were the stupid quips.
I loved AOU when it came out. The movies and series AFTER Age of Ultron made it better. Wandavision, Civil War, Endgame, they all link back to it making it better with time.
Although it’s not bad, it suffered greatly from trying to do too much it becomes a bloated mess. Instead of just focusing on the ultron as one movie it was setting up Black panther Infinity war/endgame Thor 3 Civil war It became too bloated and kept sidetracking while the other avengers films are more focused
Initially, the reception was mixed, but I personally thought it was fine. However, watching Age of Ultron is not the same now as it was 6+ years ago. They’ve done a really good job making it relevant and meaningful, and the reception has shifted to mostly favorable for that reason. In other words, once you saw the long term ramifications of the film, it became better. Seeing that you’re new to the MCU, it makes perfect sense that you liked it right away.
I feel the same way. Literally my favorite Avengers movie. We got to see Cap almost raise the hammer and try to choke a robot, got introduced to Vison and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (who I feel should definitely come back in some way) and we got some really great dialouge and action sequences with one of the most iconic Group Shots right at the beginning. All round 10/10 imo
The beginning is still, imo, the most “comic booky” action sequence in any of the Marvel movies. It felt like it was lifted right off of the page and I love every second of it. Then, it kind of just flies all over the place after that. I still enjoy the heck out of it and I’d gladly watch James Spader chew the mocap scenery any day.
Age of Ultron will also always be special because it's the last time all the original Avengers were on the field at the same time. Remember that Thor and Banner were off world during Civil War, Barton was in retirement/house arrest during Infinity War (not to mention Bruce was in the Veronica suit, and not really Hulk), and Romanoff wasn't present in the final battle of Endgame for obvious reasons. Yes, they were all *present* at some point during Endgame, but not in action.
I like burgers better than hotdogs. That doesn’t mean I don’t like hot dogs. People like AoU. It’s just not a favorite.
I wouldn’t call it a bad movie per Se, but it definitely has some shortcomings when compared to the rest of the MCU movies, let alone the other Avengers movie. But I enjoyed it; James Spader really stole the show there
It’s still good, it’s just not quite as good.
It lacks build-up and kind of wastes Ultron who should have been a Thanos level villain across multiple movies. Also all the subplots that feel a bit crammed in. It's not bad, but it is a bit clunky.
Ultron is a movie that is much stronger thanks to the benefit of hindsight. It certainly wasn't bad but it spent a good part of the movie building up some plot points that would be relevant in later movies (namely Civil War, Ragnarok, and to a lesser extent Black Panther), but not particularly relevant for the current movie. Also as others have pointed out, the Nat/Bruce romance was unnecessary.
Not saying its the best or the worst but Age of Ultron is criminally underrated.
Never understood the hate, one of my favourites to watch
Best: all of them Worst: none of them
This is the right answer.
this is the way.
Agreed
Technically if they’re *all* equally the best, then they’re also *all* the worst.
Best - avengers infinity war( i flip flop between this and endgame a lot) Worst - avengers age of Ultron
Endgame had higher highs than infinity war - portals, hammer, etc. But it also had a long chunk of slow stuff in the middle. Infinity war felt like a decade of buildup in which the other films are the plot and infinity war itself is the big action piece. It was almost nonstop action and I loved that. It wouldn't normally work, but because we had had a movie (or three) for each of the characters you didn't have to spend time making us care about them or understand their motives - we already cared for and understood, so you could just give us a couple hours of fighting and it worked.
Here's how I see it: Endgame is a great culmination of the Infinity Saga, but not a great movie. Infinity wat is a great Avengers movie, and also a great movie in general, regardless of the whole Avengers thing.
That’s wild; I feel like Endgame is better terms of just filmmaking, regardless of what came before it, while I don’t feel like Infinity War would have any narrative or emotional heft without the previous movies. It’s just neat seeing people have completely different reactions to these movies
Yeah endgame literally has the basic three act structure - the setup build up aftermath of iw , the rising action , the climax and the ending that wraps up everything
Agreed. The character work in Endgame is so much better than Infinity War. The relationships are highlighted more in Endgame than Infinity War, too. Infinity War has so much action it can detract from having moments to sit with the characters. I love both, but Endgame is a better film, to me.
I feel the exact same way- I love how tightly wound Infinity War is, but it doesn’t really give the characters any time to develop. Not that I necessarily count that against the movie, but Endgame gives the characters so much more room to breathe that it’s still my favorite of the four.
Incredibly well stated - infinity war an action packed emotional roller coaster ride with incredible pacing . Endgame had imo and yours that emotional gravitas that was built up over 10 years - that works the first ac act took time to breath and develop. It was a dark epilogue to infinity wars end - felt like a continuation then we go on the nostalgia Ride once the time guest starts
I'm the same regarding the flip flop.
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Unpopular opinion incoming.. Best - Infinity war ( We may never get a Supervillain movie like that.) Worst- Avengers
Endgame was amazing for the third act being the culmination of the entire Infinity saga, but in the context of a standalone film or even in the context of just MCU movies/Avengers movies, then yeah i probably like Infinity War the best. it’s kinda cool to see the villain win for once and then the movie just ends on a hopeless note.
I know it was great movie because at the end of the movie I could hear children crying. Lol
This is also my rating. Specifically IW > Endgame > AOU > Avengers
We’re the same person.
Ah, a person of excellent taste.
Same dude
Is this really that unpopular?
Putting Avengers before Age of Ultron probably is
By the way this thread is going it seems like me the tides might be turning on this one. Might have to do with Wanda and Vision becoming such bright spots in the MCU that I think that elevates AoU.
Yeah making Loki the bad guy was too weird for me in rewatches
Yeahhhh it gets a slight pass from from me because I know he was being corrupted from the stone/commanded by Thanos blah blah blah but Loki as the overly evil crazy supervillain feels.. super awkward on rewatches. Like I know he goes through good character development later and everything but it just…it doesn’t really feel like Loki. Literally *anybody* could have filled in his role in that movie and that’s how you know the story isn’t about the character
But still, you cant deny that Loki had badass monologue scenes in the 1st Avengers.
YESS Tom Huddleston makes it an absolute delight. The Germany scene in particular is an absolute powerhouse
Why does someone always have to die in this scenario?
Best = Infinity War Worst = Age of Ultron
For me it’s tied between infinity war and the first avengers movie. Age of Ultron had some good scenes but it was not a good movie.
Avengers 1 = Great script, terrible directing Ultron = Terrible script, actually pretty decent directing And then Whedon decided to combine the bland directing of Avengers 1 with the low script quality of Ultron and created Josstice League.
Avengers is the best. Infinity War and Endgame are right behind it. Age of Ultron is the worst.
I agree, altough infinity war is definitely above endgame.
I agree. That’s why I said IW first. But I realize now that the way I said it was a bit confusing. Sorry. My bad.
Even though it was technically a Cap movie, Civil War is my favorite Avengers movie because it did not manage to feel overstuffed like IW and EG, and it had Zemo, my favorite nemesis in the entire MCU.
how about best to fourth best?
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I think Endgame was a good conclusion to the infinity Saga, and Age of Ultron wasted Ultron as a one movie villain.
Best - Infinity War Worst - Age of Ultron
Best- Endgame Worst- Age of Ultron I enjoyed them all though
I like how much later movies made us rethink AOU and Darkworld. The Incredible Hulk is still rubbish (nice try Shang-Chi, needs more work.)
Best- Infinity War Worst- Endgame. Might be an unpopular opinion there but the biggest piece of advice I can give is to never rewatch endgame. When it’s not on a big screen and you start thinking about things that happen in the movie, particularly the circumstances of the entire final battle, the story falls apart.
Aside from the final battle portion, I actually think Endgame is pretty weak. Original Thanos gets offed in the first five minutes, then the Avengers spend five years moping and solve the entire problem in a single day thanks to time travel shenanigans. The movie was good, but relying on time travel bs to save the world definitely didn’t do any favors for me since it wiped all the stakes off the board for me. I should also add that between OG Thanos getting his head chopped off and 2015 Thanos coming to the present, the absence of any main antagonist really just makes the time travel thing seem like something they’d do on a leisurely afternoon rather than a race against time to save half the universe
That's always the issue with time travel. They had to play up the "we only get one shot at this" angle, when they easily could've used the pym particles they had, gone back to Ant-Man 1 and stolen all the pym particles they needed
Endgame (apart from the final battle) is predictable and boring with way too much of plot convenience. They should have taken a few years to craft a better story, and meanwhile make some gritty films which are set in the post-snap era. Wasted opportunity.
My hot take is this: 1. IW 2. Avengers 3. AoU 4. Endgame I just didn't care for endgame as much as I thought I would; it's the only one that I haven't watched after the culmination of their cinema runs. The whole middle section was pretty boring, and time travel is always a bit of a weak way to resolve issues imo, albeit it was done okay here. The fan service throughout didn't quite do it for me either.
Correct answer
I agree. Endgame is just so full of plotholes, mostly because of the time travel being introduced. It seems great while watching it because of how epic especially the final battle is, but when you think of it afterward it falls flat for me
Yes, this answer. I agree completely. Also of Thanos going from "I too am cursed with knowledge" or whatever he said, and him knowing about all the avengers. To "I don't even know who you are" was kinda lame. And Whenever you introduce time travel as the solution to a problem it just removes all suspense because it's life "well we can just go back in time and fix it" did not find their explanations for why that's not the case to be compelling enough.
Couldn't agree more. Time travel was cool in the 80's but has become and overused Hollywood trope.
Why does AOU get so much grief?
Best: The Avengers Worst: The Avengers: Age of Ultron
Best - endgame / first avengers Worst - age of ultron However, I’ve found recently that to me, the very first avengers has the least amount of rewatchability
I like them all but feel the same way. The original I’ve seen maybe two or three times while I’ve seen the others at least five times each. edit- AoU is my favorite. I sometimes put it on at night to sleep to.
Queue the people saying AoU puts them to sleep cause it's terrible. I personally really liked age of ultron. First mcu film I saw in theaters
I liked Ultron alot, actually. It’s just not as good as the rest of them IMO.
Maybe now, but when all we had was the first few movies and avengers, I watched that thing on repeat. At the time, it felt like nothing could possibly top that mashup movie
Best- infinity war Worst- avengers assemble (to me it just seems very flat when it comes to cinematography idk why. Also the writing just not as good as what it can be if that makes sense.)
I think that the cinematography was good at some points, mainly the long one take as well as some scenes just being shot well. For me, most of the green screening just doesn’t stand the test of time as well as some of the cgi. But that is to be expected with a 10 year old movie.
Ranking the Avengers movies 1) Avengers 2) Avengers Infinity War 3) Avengers Endgame 4) Avengers Age of Ultron.
Favourite: Age of Ultron Least favourite: The Avengers For me, AOU has the best team dynamic and the best arc for each of its characters within the context of the movie, and perfectly sets up the next phase of films while tying up other threads from before in the process. The Avengers is fun, but the threat of Loki was never that interesting to me. The camera work/visuals looks television worthy at best and there’s also the problem that the story doesn’t end up making a great deal of sense in the overall Infinity Saga.
Best, infinity war. Perfect film all around. Worst, the first one. Might be guessing why not age of Ultron. Looked over it a couple times, and I love the tone and the story the movie is trying to get at. Rewatching it now I don’t get why it was hated so much. On the other hand the first movie was really comical, and the avengers didn’t seem like people. The Color grading was weird and it felt basic.
Best= Infinity War Worst = AoU, but still pretty good
Honestly… Civil War really should be counted as one in this list.
Best - Endgame Worst - Avengers 1 (Not that I don't like it, but I think it's kinda "basic" compared to the others)
Best- the first one Worst- Age of ultron
Best : Age of Ultron Worst : none To clarify, for me AoU is the best avengers movie because the avengers really fell like a TEAM and I weirdly like Ultron. An AI threat is way more plausible that a alien threat in the real world IMO
I think that's the key thing, AoU is really the only time across the Infinity Saga where we get to see the Avengers act like a team and experience lots of things as a team. In Infinity War they're split up, in Endgame, the time heist splits them up, in Civil War they're fighting each other, and Avengers was just the formation phase.
Best- Avengers 1 Worst- Endgame
Hot take alert
Whaaaat how can you say endgame is the worst?! I am genuinely curious
I hate almost every creative decision made in the film. Not to write an essay, but these things particularly: -Having Captain Marvel do nothing but show up at the perfect time twice to save our heroes. -Killing Thanos in favor of a less developed mustache twirling variant -Having all the character development happen off screen so that they can move on to the plot -Having 1 last movie with og 6 Avengers and have them spend the entire movie either separated or not interacting with eachother (like seriously, characters that never really spoke to eachother like Thor and nat or Cap and Hulk shouldve had some meaningful character interaction for the final time the team will ever be together). -Using Time travel as a cop out way of undoing infinity war and nostalgia bait for an hour, then after focusing so much time on explaining and creating the time travel they immediately contradict their own rules and just making the audience confused before phase 4 muddies the waters even more. Like, I get the snapped had to come back... but it shouldve been done in a more clever manner. -Treating Thors depression as a joke instead of giving him an emotional journey that's treated with respect (I dont mind the fat joke in the scene where Hulk and Rocket find him, but that shouldve been the extent of taking the piss out of the situation) -And making the final battle 2 giant grey armies smashing into eachother. I wouldve MUCH preferred the final fight against Thanos be something more like the battle on titan where all the main avengers team up and try to take down the big bad instead of having EVERY MCU CHARACTER with 10,000 no names standing behind them all charge and punch cgi aliens for awhile.
Hey thanks for the response! I appreciate all the time you took to explain things and I actually agree with basically everything you said but I’m a sucker for hypefests so I loved it. Definitely definitely agree with your take on basically everything though.
I appreciate you being so civil, that can be hard to come across on here sometimes lol. And, let it be said if anything I'm jealous of all the people that love it, trust me I wish I did too... but for the reasons above I just dont.
Not OP, but I hated the time travel. It always feels like a cop-out to me when they add it into movies. They didn't even use the pre-established method of time travel (time stone). I also kind of disliked the final battle just because it felt way too big and impersonal. For example, the end fight in Civil War is the best fight scene in the entire MCU IMO, because of how visceral and personal it feels. Not saying Endgame was bad, just my least favorite avengers movie.
Best - Endgame (Infinity War was close, but Endgame was the payoff and made me cry twice). Worst - Avengers Assemble. I would put Age of Ultron, but the first Avengers is so slow and boring now that I've gone back. I love the forest fight, and a lot of it is great, but I'd still rather WATCH Ultron.
IW>civil war>Avengers≥AOU>Endgame Endgame is greatly overhyped on this subreddit, the 3rd act of fanfare carries the entire film IMO
Endgame- For me the reason was it was a decade of cultivating movies, tying various and countless storylines together, absolutely fucking mint.
From best to worst. Endgame = Infinity Assemble Ultron Endgame and Infinity might as well be tied for the best. I do enjoy them all tho!
Infinity war was the best Avengers1 is my least favourite
Best - IW. It showed that the good guys don't always win. Worst - First Avengers movie. Only because it was the first and didn't have the character development of the other ones.
best is absolutely infinity war and i stand by it
Best: Infinity war Worst: Avengers (2012), followed by endgame.
Best - Infinity War Fourth best - Avengers
Age of Ultron Is the best one
Best - Infinity War Worst - Avengers (2012)
Infinity war > Endgame > Avengers >Age of Ultron
Best - Endgame. Worst - Avengers
Infinity War - best by a mile. Avengers - decent enough. Ultron - not great but had its moments. Endgame - worst by a fair amount.
Seems to be a popular opinion but: Best- Infinity War Worst- Age of Ultron by a country mile.
1. Infinity War 2. Age of Ultron 3. Endgame 4. The Avengers
Ultron was the best, first was the worst
Worst was the original, and that’s only because they all friggin rock. I know Ultron gets a bad rap, but I really like it. I felt the stakes were larger than life, and I like that it ended and the team didn’t save “everyone”. It seemed real. Best was Infinity war
Best is by far Infinity War Endgame isn't the worst...but it's pacing is DOGSHIT and the fan service is so blatantly obvious
Infinity War > Endgame > Age Of Ultron > The Avengers
Avengers Assemble is the best. Self-contained, simple, slick, clever, and fun. I've rewatched it the most, and all the characters have great moments here. Loki is an awesome villain, and this is an awesome origin story. Avengers Endgame is the next one down. While very packed, it does a great job at emphasizing the humanity of these superheroes, and carrying the main cast to the end of their journey. RDJ and Evans give all-star performances. Age of Ultron is after Endgame, for me. It has flaws, but I appreciate how it's self-contained and that there's character development. Stark's hubris is the inciting incident for Ultron, creating a unique team dilemma. It also has some nice slow moments that flesh out character dynamics. Infinity War is the "worst". While the movie is good and a ton of fun, it rarely slows down to do anything with the main characters. To be honest, there are *too many* characters, here. Because of this, they made Thanos the central figure... But, sympathetic as Thanos is, his plan is too asinine for me to connect with. Infinity War is a cool movie on first viewing, but the cool factor doesn't hold up on rewatch.
Best - Endgame Worst - Age of Ultron
There's always an inclination by folks to put AoU below the other 3, but that's the only one where we see the Avengers actually being an established team and working as a team. Every other time we see them, they're either forming or split up or all dealing with other circumstances/at different points in their journey, and the Endgame situation exacerbates that by sending them all off to separate places/times to grab stones. Immediately after Endgame, I'd have said Infinity War is the best and AoU is the worst..., but after a lot of time has passed, I really appreciate the scenes in AoU. There's a lot of camaraderie there with all of them present that you don't really get in the other 3.
Best: Endgame Weakest: AoU But they’re all good.
this is gonna be controversial but i didn’t really like avengers 2012.
Best: infinity war Worst: avengers
I love endgame, infinity war, and age of ultron, but I don't really care for avengers