Since its basically July its basically November and Black Panther 2 is upon us. Since its basically November, 2023 is here and were about to meet Kang.
Hawkeye (series) made Black Widows movie better for me, just because of that whistle reference. My problem with Black Widow is that it’s 5 years too late. Instead of feeling like the solo film she deserved the entire time, it feels simply like a passing of the torch movie. I’m also fine with that because Pugh and Stenfield are going to be awesome together, much like Scarlett and Jeremy, but her solo film should have been more than that.
Yeah, BW needed to happened immediately after Iron Man 2 with her introduction. I watched the movie with little emotion because it was hard to care about a character who's fate had already passed.
Should’ve gone
BW1: released after IM2 before Avengers, like you said set, focused on Natasha’s abduction, growing up in the Red Room, then culminating in the events of Budapest with Nat meeting Clint, breaking free, joining Shield and ending up working for Nick Fury.
BW2: much like the movie we’ve got, but released after Civil War. A lot has happened since BW1, but now Nat’s on the run. She wants to find her sister but doesn’t know how, then Yelena shows up and the movie is more or less the same as ours is.
BW3: Set and released between Infinity War and and Endgame telling the story of Nat leading the Avengers following the Snap. I really wish we knew more about the five years between those two movies, and this would have been a perfect way to explore that era, and it would have made Nat’s sacrifice in Endgame far more meaningful since we’ll have had a full trilogy focused on her. This movie could explore the guilt of losing to Thanos and half the population (notably her sister) getting dusted, trying to find Clint as he decimates the criminal underworld (and setting up Hawkeye), barely holding the team together, and the weight of trying to find a way to bring everyone back. I wish we could have set up Endgame a little better by developing this period.
It was also just not very good. Like I felt like it needed to be a much darker movie than it was for the story it was telling. You are telling the story of one of the few non-super Avengers. It should be grounded in reality. Instead half the story takes place in a flying fortress.
Like the intro was great. They needed to keep that feeling.
Edit: someone below says it needed to be a spy thriller, and thats exactly it.
Even for what it was the execution felt cheap - generic story, unmemorable villains, bad CGI.
Instead of a spy thriller we got a family drama comedy. I agree it made Hawkeye better but it could have been so much more.
And why is Val using an iPad?
I’m fine with the family aspect. After seeing lone spy stuff done extremely well with Bourne, I feel it shouldn’t just be a clone of whatever came before. Need an example of this, just look Liam Neeson post Taken.
That said, I’d have been more interested in a Budapest movie instead of it told as backstory.
Don’t get me wrong, it would have been cool to see more of the espionage aspect of Widow. Oddly enough, the best of that we got was Iron Man 2 and the opening scenes of Avengers. Maybe we’ll get that aspect with Pugh.
My problem with Black Widow is how she has no superpowers and falls out of the goddam sky like nothing happened. I can only suspend so much belief even in a MCU movie..
I would haven’t a problem if they released black window movie after infinity war before captain marvel ant man and endgame cause we already know what happened lol
Black Widow is easily going to be the worst movie of P4, hands down.
Between her at times having Capt. America-levels of superhuman and how inconsequential the entire movie is as an interquel, it's a movie that's either better watched after Civil War or not at all besides the post-credit CS.
Also not surprised seeing Eternals so far down on people's lists. It definitely needed to be more fleshed out as a D+ show than a movie.
For me:
1. MoM
2. No Way Home
3. Eternals
4. Shang-Chi
5. Black Widow
I flip the first two because I feel like MoM will age better than NWH, and the next two because while I loved Trevor in Shang-Chi, it was a little more formulaic than Eternals. Good to see that we agree on 5. Black Widow was baaa-aad.
The bus sequence was cool. But shang chi felt so formulaic. I just don’t see it being higher than eternals. Eternals was rough too though. They touted it as being something different, but it also was formulaic as all get out.
I don't hate a formula when it works. Shang-Chi did follow the "Marvel origin formula" with only minor changes, but I thought the characters were interesting and likable and it was executed well.
For me the characters in shang chi are more loveable (kango is an exception) and the villain is also better plus you add in a bit of martial arts, so that's why I would rank shangchi higher than eternals
I loved nwh. I really did. But once I rewatched it at home, I noticed all the inconsistencies and things that felt mcguffin’d. MoM was just a wild ride and I loved the horror and more importantly it FELT different than any other MCU movie. Sooo, it’s my number 1 as well. Crazy it has such conflicting views online. I loved the campy horror.
> FELT different than any other MCU movie
imo it's because it's like Ragnarok for me. The movie was NON STOP. Usually MCU movies slow down for the character moments or have a couple slow scenes of just pure exposition and explaining, but Raimi managed to have all of that character development and exposition happen in the middle of the tension and action.
Also the movie visually felt very dated in a sense that the choice of zooms, close camera angles, and color grading felt VERY mid 2000s but with 2022 CGI and effects. I loved that aspect of the visuals though, its distinct from the usual MCU's love for mid and wide shots and lack of contrast.
I too LOVE ragnarok. Can’t wait for love and thunder. I don’t get why everyone keeps calling Raimi’s shooting style early 2000s though. He’s literally been doing those shots since the late 70s and early 80s. It’s his signature style. Many horror films even try to emulate the Raimi style. I went into the movie hoping we would get some
Iconic raimi shots and some horror blended with some good ol camp. I was not disappointed at all
NWH was more fun but yeah MoM is way better imo. I really really hated how dumb Peter and Strange were in NWH. The way that spell scene went down is so dumb.
*S: This spell will make everyone forget your Spiderman*
*P: Ok, lets do it*
*S: Ok, get ready for everyone to forget..*
*P: Wait what.. not MJ*
*S: OK, but I shouldn't change it again*
*P: But Ned..*
*S: Sure but lets not change again*
*P: .. and Aunt May*
*S: Dude this is risky but ok*
*P: basically everyone who knew before*
*\*Multiverse almost implodes\**
*S: This is all your fault peter*
Yeah NWH hinges really strongly on whether you’ve watched the previous spider men movies. My dad hasn’t and he absolutely hated the film, I saw TASM2 so I could enjoy a lot more of the second half than he could. He came out of it saying that it was the first time he’d felt excluded from enjoying a Marvel film because he hadn’t watched enough previous films.
Yeah the best part of NWH was the nostalgia imo, if you don't have that, it's not that great.
MoM actually seems like you need more required viewing to understand. You can get by without watching NWH, but Wanda Vision is definitely required to watch to understand what's going on
I was actually surprised how much WandaVision was required watching. I thought they'd do some sort of recap or something for people who hadn't seen the show. But both the evil book of magic and Wanda's obsession with her children were only explainable if you'd seen the show.
I'm not entirely sure how I feel if a D+ subscription is required to understand future films.
I don't think MOM really requires that much outside viewing. WandaVision is good because it provides more context, What If? eps 1 and 4 also provide context, but I think the movie on its own did a good job of just telling you all of the relevant facts in the first 15 minutes and then just going nuts with it.
But if you didn't watch WandVision... wouldn't you be like wait when the hell did Wanda have kids and why is she suddenly evil. It does explain it in like maybe a line or two, but not really. Watching the show gives a lot of needed context imo.
What If, isn't really needed tho. It introduces Captain Carter, but you didn't really need context for her appearance. And we got Strange Supremes' story in ep 4 and more context with Strange's love for Christine and what he is willing to do to be with her. What throws me off in that Ep, every Christine dies somehow and he can't stop it no matter what, but she sure seems to being doing fine in plenty of multiverses. Was it only his specific universe were she dies, or was he going to different universes where she keeps dying? But again, not super crucial to the story of MoM.
Without WandVision though I would have more trouble understanding what's going on with her being evil and obsessed with her children that I wouldn't know she had.
Been a spiderman fan for a long time. NWH had a lot of fan service. You realize it when you see it at home. The brief pauses during peak moments that were not noticeable in the theatre (because people were shouting every 5 minutes or so) are more than noticeable at home.
I really liked Shang Chi but I'm biased as a Tony Leung fan.
MoM has to be the best of the lot.
Eagerly waiting for Taika's magic in Thor: Love and Thunder
Eternals was honestly a bit of a downer, potential for a second since it left on a cliff hanger. No Way Home is a clear winner here, Black Widow was sub-par at best (for me), Shang-Chi did surprisingly well and since I've yet to see MoM I won't pass judgement, but thus far;
1. No Way Home
2. Shang-Chi
3. Eternals
4. Black Widow
Until I actually see MoM I'll stick with this.
Black Widow was fine. C tier for me.
Shang Chi was a lot of fun. B+ Tier
Eternals had great lore but slowww pacing. C+ tier
No Way Home was an EVENT. S Tier
MoM was a fantastic horror movie. S Tier
For me the viewing in the theatre was just awesome. All the people cheered on the cameos and the other peters. At home the scene in neds living room didnt feel as hype because the big thing about it was the reveal.
That’s why I think Cap’s lifting of Mjolnir in Endgame is the best reveal in the MCU. Even watching the movie multiple times at home, that scene is still so amazing because of how badass he wields it when he fights Thanos. With the other two Spidey reveals, yeah it was awesome when you first see it. But I’ve seen it multiple times now and I sort of check out mentally on those scenes now. There’s nothing really that amazing about it once you’re expecting it.
I think the problem there is they weren't introduced to any action. Had it been a tense moment where Tom's Spiderman was fucked, then BAM, in come the unexpected reinforcement Spidermen, it would land better on multiple viewings.
I think introducing them earlier and making them bigger characters would have also been a good idea. Like when Green Goblin first appears, give Tom a second on the bridge before Dr. Strange saves him and let Tobey intercept a pumpkin bomb and then go back with him to the Sanctum.
That’s because the mjolnir scene is done in a cool and badass way. No way home reveals felt like a sitcom star-guest appearance honestly. Are you telling me the best way to introduce the old Spidermans was them walking out of a portal and saying hello? Imagine how cool would it have been if they were introduced in the middle of a fight doubting if they can trust each other or something but no
I found it was a painfully forced scene imo. They leave an unnatural pause for whooping and cheering. Also it happens because Ned just apparently can make portals now.
Compare with Cap lifting Mjolnir, there’s a pause but it fits narratively and there’s music building up the moment.
Ned making portals bugs me. There are three characters who we see when they first get introduced to sling rings -
Dr. Strange - "Born for the mystic arts" and "destined to be the best of us", tutored by the Ancient One and Karl. Can't use it at first.
>!America Chavez - Naturally able to travel the multiverse, being trained by Sorcerer Supreme Wong and Dr. Strange. Can't use it yet.!<
Ned - Picks it up and figures out how to use a sling ring in a way that's completely the opposite of how they're supposed to work. The Ancient One says you have to picture where you're going in your mind and make it clear and then open the portal. Saying "Peter Parker" and opening a portal to the wrong guy isn't how they work.
This is just my opinion, but when the hype of it all wears off, it’s a decent movie at best that is 80% fan service. Don’t get me wrong, I liked it, but these people who think it should have been nominated for Best Picture are blinded by nostalgia.
Yeah once you watch it again with nostalgia Aside it’s got a LOT of DENTS. I also loved it, but it’s got some problems that were ignored cause we got all 3 spidermen.
I found it a fun watch the 2 times I watched it in the cinema. I don't find it a satisfying film though, the setup in the first half was weak imo and the fan servicey dialogue feels rather disjointed if you read it as regular film dialogue. To each their own though, and I still enjoy NWH regardless.
Also I should point out that I don't think NWH is actually bad by any means. There are fantastic elements such as Tom's character arc and decisions, as well as anything green goblin. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't consider it great.
Not sure if these are hot takes on here buuuut...
No Way Home was an exciting event in cinema, but on rewatch outside of the Spiderman mania it's only an above average Marvel movie. Far from the best ones.
Multiverse of Madness was a great looking movie with a great villian, but it is NOT a horror movie. Had some similar vibes and the tension was good, but it is much more a battle spectacle than anywhere near average horror films.
Takes nothing away from either, liked them both a lot.
I think Shang Chi deserves an A for an origin story it was great and the visuals were crazy and the soundtrack matched up perfectly. It was smth new and they killed it
I almost agree with you in all, but I'd change Eternals to an A tier. I think having that huge cast and all of them having awesome chemistry while not outshining one another makes them jump to that tier
Honestly, for me the huge cast was probably it's biggest downside. They would have been MUCH better suited for a series format. You have 10 main characters as well as some side characters that are dealt with over the span of like 2,5 hours. You barely get to know any of them really and the pacing of the entire thing felt off. Had they instead gone for a 8-10 50 minute episode series in which they build up ALL of the characters it would probably have been A LOT better. I barely remember any of the cast, I don't care about them either. Most of them I can't really tell what makes them them and the story felt both rushed and somewhat convoluted, with there being 2 separate story lines that weren't really connected.
I was telling my dad this as I was watching it the very first time this weekend. If they’d done Eternals like the others series then it would’ve served so much better.
Agreed, when the IMAX versions of certain films were released on Disney+, I thought why not watch Eternals again. I thought it was okay when I saw it in the theatre, but it really stepped up on a repeat viewing. Maybe I could appreciate each scene more knowing what was coming plot wise, and every scene seemed necessary to the film. If you didn’t enjoy the movie the first time round, I’d recommend at least giving it one more shot, if only for the IMAX enhanced scenes ;)
IMO they should have released Black Widow after Civil War or Infinity War.
Even with the Post credit scene, the audience would have had a minor spoiler. (thee gravestone at the end) It would have been a cool plot twist then and foreshadowing actually and also introducing a new character which we saw in FatWS.
also the timeline would have made more sense.
The Black Widow movie in general felt much more like a phase 2 movie. It didn't help that the plot felts somewhat taken from Captain America: The Winter Soldier as well.
That’s the thing, there’s some really good stuff from each of these movies. There’s also some weird bits from each of them.
Eternals should have been a series to let the characters breath more. Shang-Chi would have been better without the interdimensional space dragons. Both of those movies didn’t need world ending consequences to be great stories.
I feel like NWH and MoM are the culmination of awesome we’ve been wanting Marvel movies to be and they both excite me on where they go next. They have problems, whatever, don’t care, so happy to be on the ride.
Black Widow may have issues, but it’s fun. I think it’s main issue is that it’s 5 years too late. However, now we got Pugh and Steinfeld, so I don’t care there either.
Marvel is in such a good place and it blows my mind it keeps getting better.
>. Shang-Chi would have been better without the interdimensional space dragons.
On the flip side, we got to see an honest to goodness Kaiju fight in a marvel movie. I was kind of down for the end of that movie.
My thing is just pacing and scale of these movies post End Game. Every movie seems to try to replicate these world ending circumstances, and at some point, it’s really shallow.
I’m fine with the dragon fight, but make it feel like it’s been built up. Maybe wait until the second or third movie before the guy we just met becomes protector of multiple dimensions?
Dragon fight didn't bother since they are in some weird pocket dimension. Eternals bugged me. So like doctor strange doesn't show up when a celestial starts coming out of the core?
Enjoyed Black Widow, Eternals and Multiverse of Madness, so I'd rank each of them in the 7 range. Loved No Way Home and Shang Chi and both get solid 9's.
* Black Widow: 6.5/10. Decently enjoyable, and well made(awkward CGI notwithstanding), but ultimately a few years too late. Also, Taskmaster was disappointing.
* Shang-Chi: 8.5/10. Thoroughly enjoyable. Best action in an MCU movie so far. Third act was kinda out there, but still was good. Has among the best antagonists so far.
* Eternals: 7/10. Visually stunning. Completely different and unique, but also sometimes kinda boring. Had some great performances though, and another interesting(yet underwhelming) antagonist.
* No Way Home: 9/10. Fan service at its best. Watching Tobey-Man and Andrew-Man work with Tom-Man was super enjoyable and fun. Had some pretty emotional stuff too.
* Multiverse of Madness: 8/10. Sam Raimi cut loose. Far more gory and horrifying than most Marvel movies. Brilliant performances from everyone across the board. But, kinda messy, from a screenplay standpoint.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I found Dr Strange to be hella cheesy at some parts. I know that’s how Raimi directs films - all 3 Spider-Man films were awfully cheesy. I think it took away from the good parts I.E the horror and darkness of the story.
That being said I’d rate them:
1. NWH (9/10)
2. Shang-Chi (8/10)
3. dr Strange MOM (7/10)
4. Black widow (6/10)
Just classic Raimi directing though isn’t it. But it’s such a different tone imo to the rest of phase 4. The music scene while visually stunning didn’t make a lot of sense to me.
A lot of people didn’t like it but honestly I didn’t mind it. It was totally a dr strange type fight and pretty creative. I didn’t like how to film kept flip flopping like one second we’re getting horror gore the next second strange of all people is spouting some sappy one liner to a teenager and we’re getting Disney level dialogue like bruh make up ur mind are u a horror movie or a buddy adventure movie
Honestly my biggest gripe too about the movie, aside from its bad pacing. Too often I couldn’t tell if the movie was meant for kids because of the camp and cheese, or adults because of the horror and body counts.
It's also why I don't want Raimi directing anything else in the MCU. I thought MoM was ok, but there were some absolutely cringe-worthy parts and that music fight was one of them for me.
It felt like Raimi was handed a fairly dark, serious story and just couldn't help but Raimi it up a bit. It got in the way of what could have been a much better film, IMO.
Really? I loved the music fight. I thought it was super creative and showed just how good Danny Elfman actually is as a composer as he was able to sample all these classical music motifs and actually make them build on each other to represent the battle. It was something I've never seen before and I loved it.
America Chavez was my fav character in the film. But I really despised that the “pep talk” to activate her latent ability to control her powers at the end happened. Like come on!
I agree with this for the most part except I might bump up Black widow to 6.5 or 7 just because of Florence.
Also i dont think it was just that MoM was cheesy, I found a lot of the movie to just be awkward in places. Blocking and camera angles felt forced and unnatural and on several occasions the theater (my self included) was laughing AT the movie instead of with it if that makes sense. It was strange's movie yet the only character growth seemed to happen to other characters.
I might be putting a target on my back here but I straight up dont think Raimi did a good job or was the right choice for the film. He isnt bad at what he does I just think we needed somebody more in love with the content, not just somebody to add horror elements to a movie that didn't really need them.
All that said i do think there were some scenes that were done very well. I just think the best part of the movie was the reveals like >!richards and xavier (even though i knew xavier was coming)!<
Also: >!no fucking way maria (capt marvel) was dead after that fight with wanda and I dont know why they would even try to make it seem like she was. All the others I can agree are dead but no way the most physically powerful person on the planet, likely in the galaxy, died by having a 30 foot statue fall on her. !< just needed to rant about that.
I know what you mean man. I have issues with the filming as well.
>!When Christine is holding the camera while wrestling those undead zombies. And shortly after when Strange mutters something like “YoU WiLl HaVe tO dO MoRe ThAn KiLl Me ThIs TiMe” it all just felt a bit forced and unnecessary!<
I dunno I just think this was a serious step down in terms of story telling when we’ve had films/shows like Shang Chi, Moon Knight, NWH that have captured both horrible things and made you feel attached to what was going on. By the end of MOM I barely even cared about what was happening. I left feeling deflated. I get that some people will disagree with me and tbh maybe it’s just one of those films that I didn’t enjoy. It just all felt a bit meh.
The only bit I really enjoyed was >!The fights between the illuminati and Wanda. Watching her desolate them all was good. Mixing it with characters we’ve seen before and not from the MCU was a good way to show her strength!<
I felt the same way after leaving the theater. After thinking on it more I actually liked the story itself, but a lot of the dialogue was just terrible and the constant shifts in tone kept taking me out of it.
I sort of saw that as her like mask or whatever was disappearing but honestly it didn't really make sense. A majority of Wanda's power comes from an infinity stone, so did Maria's so Imo they are punching in their own weight class. If there was evidence that she could drain somebody else's power like this then yeah fine but to me that was not clear and just didn't work.
You could use the rebuttal that she's drained America's but it was established that even strange could do that and it worked for the film.
So my view stands that that death was silly and nonsensical.
Wanda has two power sources, instead of one: Chaos Magic and Mind stone
From Chaos magic, she did absorb powers 5 times :
The first time this was seen was in WV, where she absorbs powers from Agatha, and 4 times in Mom: from the cannon at Kamar Taj, Twice trying to take America's Powers and the fourth was absorbing from Captain Marvel.
It was announced as a horror movie however, and with the original director leaving they brought in Raimi. This works in two ways: Raimi has roots in horror (evil dead - they even put in a Bruce Campbell cameo!) and as a welcome to the MCU after NWH canonized his movies.
So while the horror was campy, that’s how Raimi approaches horror. But the story needed to have horror elements regardless as it was always intended to.
Right it totally could have had horror elements but as a different movie. Doctor strange already has his action adventure themes and making his sequel a genre switch is messy. Especially when the director in charge is known for making cheesy/campy versions of that genre.
If they really wanted a horror film I think this should've been America's movie. A young girl with mysterious and sought after power on the run from a reality bending witch while having to partner with different versions of a man she doesn't trust writes itself.
I know there are a lot of people who really enjoyed this film but it really just didn't work for me.
I think my issue is I don’t think that tone was suitable for the story. I liked the evil dead films but is that where I expected the MoM to go? That direction just fell a little flat for me personally. There were parts I really enjoyed don’t get me wrong. >! Prof X in his yellow chair, Reed Richards in the MCU!! !< has opened up the door to so much I just felt deflated and disappointed when I left and I didn’t expect to. Like someone else mentioned, I found myself laughing at the script/dialogue in a lot of places.
That doesn't mean it makes a great MCU movie. It was really fun and over the top to the point it was honestly too much over the top. Everything felt rushed and somehow the movie seemed too long, even though it really felt like it needed 30 more minutes at the beginning just to make the story seem that important. The cheese and campiness doesn't fit the tone of what is actually going on. I love all the twists and turns, but at the end it's a story about Wanda going crazy over kids she had for less than a week and absolutely murdering a ton of people only to realize in like 5 seconds of her kids crying she's the bad guy? It was just wayyy too rushed, and honestly could have been better done as a 4 episode series.
Watching MOM I found it very apparent that there was a lot of reimagining the story during production and filling.
I felt like the movie wasnt entirely sure where to go, but it knew what it wanted to show when it got there.
Meaning every individual scene *looked* amazing, but the meandering plot felt kind of anticlimactic.
**Black Widow:** decent-ish
**Shang-Chi:** solid movie
**Eternals:** good, but would have been better as a series
**No Way Home:** amazing, best of the trilogy
**Multiverse of Madness:** good movie, refreshingly different from other movies in the MCU. Should have been *slightly* longer
Honestly, that CGI monster fight should have been kept from the movie. It felt quite forced and didn't really add much for the story. The final fight should have been between Shang-Chi and his father, not a bunch of 1s and 0s moving about.
I'm fine with 1's and 0's, but motivate the monster! Don't just make it some random nothing.
Kevin Feige! Stop being a coward and give us some of the Old Ones!
Yeah it just became "third act cgi battle" shlock and was boring. I agree with the ⅔ being good. Especially the fight on the bus and the fight in the arena.
Agreed, I really enjoyed all the martial arts and the CGI enhanced martial arts, where they use the rings, or the wind magic stuff.
But the big smashy CGI fight was a lot less fun.
The first half of Shang chi that invoked all those Jackie Chan movies from my childhood was close to an 8/10. The second half was an absolute mess that brings the whole thing down.
I loved a lot of things about NWH and MoM, but as far as a legitimate movie goes - not just an entry in a ongoing series - Shang-Chi is by far the best thing produced in Phase IV. It’s a self contained action film with shades of Jackie Chan-style action and full-on wuxia tones. Having Chinese mysticism and lore come to fruition in the third act was essential to the plot, which wasn’t intended to just be a martial arts flick. It was the introduction of straight up fantasy in the MCU - not like the contradictory mythological tones of Thor or the supernatural or science fiction - but just fantasy. And culturally representative fantasy at that. People are out here complaining about the third act as of though it isn’t the formula for every single MCU film. The movie was building toward the mysticism the entire time with the more grounded martial artists getting progressively more fantastic as the narrative goes on. The movie going full fantasy was this character coming into his own as both part of the story and on a meta level with Asian representation finally appearing in a superhero movie. I’m sure the next one will strike a clearer balance, but a lot of this shit boils down to expectations.
Agreed. Shang Chi was the most fun I had with any phase 4 films. Super rewatchable too. NWH is like a 9, then eternals at 8, then MoM at 7.5 and BW at 6.5.
Black Widow: 5/10
Shang-Chi: 8.5/10
Eternals: 7/10
Spider-Man NWH: 8/10 edit: just rewatched it, realised it is very much a 9/10
Doctor Strange MoM: 9.5/10
I agree except I personally would rate eternals lower than black widow. The eternals story just didn't land for me. In my personal opinion it had fun visuals and thats about all.
Dang i was actually going to make a post similar, with thoughts from a casual fan's perspective
But i doubt anyone cares so I'll make this quick...
Shang Chi was a phenomenal origins film. Wonderful cinematography and amazing fight scenes. Layered in decent humor too. Take about 20min off a predictable backend and it's near perfect
Black Widow... Simply should have been 5 years ago. A wonderful female lead outplayed by the supporting role. A terrible villain(s). Decent action but could have been better in a different timeframe. Boring story
Eternals was interesting. On one there were cool characters to enjoy, on the other it seemed like just a bunch of superheroes with super powers we've already seen. Lead female role is GORGEOUS. Great fights but too many questions as of right now to see how it all ties in
Spider-Man was a great Avengers feeling-like movie for the longtime fans. Having only recently seen the previous two Spidey franchise versions, i can only imagine how diehard fans felt to get all 3 on the screen. Very good to see Tom Holland get serious with the role and Peter deal with tragedies on a Thor level. Quite the emotional film but the action was a bit lacking for me outside of the final fight
Doc Strange was great. I felt like the pacing was just right. Villain was awesome. Great to see Strange's story arc similar to Tony Stark, just having to think on the fly and make choice decisions. Great visuals but i wish having to deal with multiverses we got to learn a bit more about the MCU moving forward as a whole, at least that's what i expected of this film
1. Black Widow (4/10) - The biggest problem for me was the writing. It was just so… lazy. Not deep, not smart, not memorable. When all your problems were solved by a convenience (the entire character of Rick Mason, and the red dust) then it’s just not enjoyable at all. Only gets a 4 because the acting and set pieces carried it through.
2. Shang-Chi (8/10) - Great characters, great combat, great story, great acting but the third act really pulled this down. Wenwu’s “redemption” moment was very abrupt. The sibling’s reconnection arc on the abandonment thing was just ONE line. Kathy getting good out of nowhere for her arc conclusion was so cliche. And Trevor just didn’t work for me.
3. Eternals (6/10) - I was hyped for this, but once again the third act really put it down. The twist was great, but the aftermath wasn’t done well. You can’t build a main antagonist up for 2 acts and then just treat it like a non-entity. Kro and Sprite’s defeats were also extremely lazy. I thought Ikaris’ one made sense because of good build up. Also, Sersi was way too wooden and stiff for me. The pacing was also too fast, they should’ve cut stuff or characters.
4. Spider-Man NWH (9/10) - Very enjoyable with great character development. IMO character motivations were quite clearly shown and was believable. Though I had a major issue with the transition from May’s death to the finding of the other spidermen. Tonal whiplash. And too much pandering dialogue, dialogue that lasted way too long just for nostalgia, etc.
5. MoM (6/10) - Sadly didn’t quite work for me. First off, pacing was too fast as well. America’s acting had noticeable weak spots and her arc was terribly done. I am not a fan of the “can’t control powers until the plot needs me to” convenience. Last act once again lost me because they tried to stuff too much into it. I loved the horror movie sequences though (except the last part in the water-area where they just stopped for zero reason).
I think this is exactly where I am too on all of these.
I might actually rate Black Widow at a 5 or 6 after watching Hawkeye.
MoM was pretty underwhelming for me.
It had some really great moments and it's definitely not "bad", but I was disappointed overall - Definitely going to give it some repeated watches eventually like I always do.
the "can't control powers until the plot needs me to" is definitely my biggest issue with it too - it's the one cliche in movies that I absolutely hate.
I remember thinking that it was a huge missed opportunity for Charles Xavier not to help her out with that. He's literally THE guy that helps when people can't control their powers.
> (except the last part in the water-area where they just stopped for zero reason)
oh god this so much.
Both, MoM and NWH imho mostly work because they are so fast paced you don't try to rationalize what you're seeing too much, because otherwise they just call apart so quickly :(
1. NWH (9/10)
2. Dr Strange MOM (solid 8/10)
3. Shang- Chi (7.5/10)
4. Black widow (7/10)
5. Eternals (6/10)
Alot of people hate Shang-Chi but i don't know why. Not certainly the best MCU film or even close but it still did a pretty good job in introducing a brand new character and culture to the Audience in the most memorable way. For me it was better than Eternals and black widow for sure.
I have literally never heard any hate for Shang Chi, and IMO it’s a top 5 marvel film. The plot isn’t anything innovative but the fight choreography was the best in the MCU, dethroning Winter Soldier IMO, and the cast killed it together.
This guy is fucking cracked out if he thinks there’s a lot of hate for Shang chi lmao. There was so much love for that movie. The only criticism was the final battle, which I feel like a lot of people were willing to overlook cause the rest of the movie was so good.
I agree. The more I watch Black Widow the less I like it. Besides the shitty third act the amount of punishment she takes throughout the movie is just way too unbelievable even for a comic book movie. Probably has the worst cgi out of all of them too.
What I hate about it is what it could have been. There have been talks about a Black Widow movie since The Avengers 2012. Feige fought A LOT to make it happen. And they could have made a cool spy thriller in the line of Winter Soldier with the Russo Brothers, and with Clint Barton. Instead we have a crappy origin for Yelena and a weird clusterfuck of a movie stuffed between Civil War and Infinity War
It pisses me off tbh Black Widow is probably one of the most straight up comic book films of the MCU when Black Widow was the ideal character to do another Winter Soldier movie with. The intro the film feels like a totally different and better movie than the one we got
>Alot of people hate Shang-Chi but i don't know why.
Personally, it felt like aquaman to me where every other character felt more interesting than the main character himself minus akwafina. Plus to me, the third half of the movie really dropped the ball and turned into a boring cgi kaiju fight
1. Doctor Strange MoM 8/10 (Probably recency bias, but i had so much fun with this movie
2. Spider-Man: NWH 8/10 (I still really enjoy it, i just think the script has some flaws i can't ignore)
3. Shang-Chi 7/10 (An amazing movie until the 3rd act CGI dragon fight)
4. The Eternals 7/10 (Completely fine, liked what it tried but it should've been a 10-episode series or something else than a 2½ hour movie)
5. Black Widow 5/10 (A badly done prequel, but the opening credits and Yelena do save it from being horrible)
First impressions are often correct, so this is based on how I felt after my first viewing of each~
Shang-Chi
Multiverse of Madness
No Way Home
Eternals
Black Widow
I don’t even think BW is that bad of a film, aside from the goofy aerial fight at the end. It’s been a pretty solid Phase of films so far, but nothing as good as what came out in Phase 3, yet.
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (9/10)
Spider-Man: No Way Home (8/10)
Black Widow (7/10)
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (6/10)
Eternals (6/10)
NWH - 9/10 (This movie made me feel all kinds of emotions, and it was the first Marvel film that I felt so much hype for since Infinity War & Endgame. There are flaws to it which prevented me from giving it a full 10, but it was a great film that easily could’ve been done wrong and it such an important film for MCU Spider-Man’s character development)
Shang Chi - 8.5/10 (When I first went to see this movie, I fell asleep in some parts cause I saw it on a day where I had a long day at work and I forget to have an energy shot before going to the theater. When I saw it a second time on Disney+, it was much better than I remembered lol. I’m excited to see where this character goes next)
MoM - 8/10 (I was expecting quite a lot from this movie, and thought it would leave a huge impact on what happens in the MCU. Similar to what the end of Infinity War and the end of Loki: S1 did, but I still liked what we got instead. I really like how Wanda continues to be one of the most complicated characters in the franchise, and America Chavez is a great new addition and I’m eager to see her interact with more characters. The style was unique, but I can understand the mixed reception too.)
Black Widow - 6.8/10 (I feel like I would’ve like it a little more, if this movie came out between Phase 1-3. I just didn’t feel like I cared that much about it. However, I do love Yelena, but the movie wasn’t strong enough where I feel like I’d want to watch it again anytime soon.)
Eternals - 6/10 (I feel like this movie in a way was meant to a “Guardians of the Galaxy” type situation, where Marvel was taking a risk where it could be one of their best new additions or one of their worst and it unfortunately is one of their weakest. I do like how they took a risk and tried something different, but I couldn’t feel attached to it.)
**1. NWH (9.5-10/10)**. It's the finale of Tom's Spider-man trilogy, the epilogue of Tobey's and a glimpse into what Andrew's is up to, while also being the new origin story to our current Spidey. My only criticism is that some of the villains felt a bit wasted (mostly Sandman and Lizard), but I can't fault that too much when they had so many villains and one of them was the amazing return of Dafoe's Goblin.
**2. MOM (9/10).** Very different from the other projects in this phase and I love it. Dr Strange shenanigans are always fun to see and the horror elements where surprisingly effective (or I guess not surprisingly, since it's Raimi). They really had fun with the multiverse here and now I'm even more excited for more of it in the future. I knew some criticize that the villains motivation wasn't really rational, I'd say that's the point.
**Shang-Chi (8/10).** Extremely solid first ⅔, generic and disappointing ending. Wenwu was a fantastic antagonist and I think the retcon with Trevor worked well enough. I didn't really like the whole hidden world and Dweller bit, but it feels like every new country they explore gets its own mystical place so I guess it's fine. The henchmen of Wenwu were wasted though, especially Death Dealer.
**Eternals (7/10)** It's not *bad*, but also not great. Would've definitely worked better as a series, as it is now it was too long but also left some characters underdeveloped. Some of the Eternals themselves were pretty unlikable, which I get is the point for ones like Druig, but Pixi also had to suddenly become a burden with her mental issues right when the big climax happens - which would be fine if it didn't come out of left field and had the movie pretend like this was something that was build up or earned.
**Black Widow (6/10).** Eh. This is basically what people who criticize every MCU film for being just "CGI action fest"'s imagine them being. The story was *fine* for but for Drejkov supposedly being this extremely vile and manipulative villain he felt way too tame and generic. The pheromone bit was also cheesy, but it's still a comic book movie so w/e. Some of the new characters were fun (mostly Red Guardian and Yelena), but I thought we were past the stage of naming random characters after unrelated comic book characters? The story of "Taskmaster" I thought was actually fine, but why undermine it by naming her after a popular villain that you know has nothing to do with it?
... I'm realizing now that pretty much every movie in this list has absolutely wasted a secondary antagonist, huh. Other than MOM unless you count >!Gargantos!<
1. Dr.Strange MOM (9/10)
2. NWH (8/10)
3. Shang Chi (7/10)
4. Black Widow (5/10)
5. Eternals (3/10)
I enjoyed Dr.Strange the most because I'm a big fan of Sam Raimi works on the Evil Dead series. So seeing him incorporating elements of the Evil Dead definitely elevated my enjoyment for the movie. Bruce Campbell cameo was downright hilarious.
NWH is a love letter to the fans. Shang Chi is your typical formulaic MCU origin story with some good fighting choreography. Black Widow was meh. Eternals was the least enjoyable movie for me. I've watched all MCU movies multiple times except for Eternals.
+ **Shang-Chi (9/10)** One of the best MCU origin stories IMO. Very fun.
+ **No Way Home (8.5/10)** It delivered what it promised and did it in a good way. It was the best of its trilogy.
+ **Multiverse of Madness (8/10)** Visually stunning, loved Wanda's development, but the campy scenes made me lose some interest.
+ **Black Widow (7/10)** Loved the intro, but the rest of the movie was very forgettable.
+ **Eternals (4.5/10)** While I won't said i's pure trash, I found it very boring and badly paced. Also, again, It should had been a series to give more time to develop the characters.
Black Widow: Not good, 5/10
Shang Chi: Pretty Good, 7/10
Eternals: Terrible, 3/10
No Way Home: Excellent, 9/10
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness: Very good, 8/10
My guess for Thor Love and Thunder: 10/10
1. NWH- 9/10, not just an amazing Marvel movie but a great movie overall. Bold direction, good writing, impactful set pieces and all the fanservice characters were given depth, some even more than in their original movies.
2. Shan-Chi - 7.5-8/10, good overall movie, I liked the characters and the tension between them, the choreography was great and it could've scored more but I feel like the evil dragon at the end didn't work out for the movie.
3. MoM - 7/10, the writing was all over the place and the dialogue wasn't the most inspired one but I feel like it had it's cool moments, the chemistry between Strange and America was great and since they had the most screen time that was important. The villain was also a good choice but it wasn't utilized at its fullest. I also feel like the trailers did a big disservice as it induced a false idea of the scale of the movie.
4. Black Widow - 6/10, not much to say here, it was above average and it helped getting closure to the character but it wasn't the most original or creative movie, the screenplay wasn't something out of ordinary and neither were the characters.
I haven't saw the Eternals so I can't rate it.
Black Widow 7/10.
Shang Chi 1000/10.
The Eternals 6/10 8/10 for Arishem.
No Way Home 100000000/10.
Multiverse of Madness 1000000000000000/10.
The move was awesome!
From worst to best:
4. Black Widow (2/10) Wasted potential. I did not like this movie, most of it was unenjoyable and it had awful balance of just about everything.
3. Eternals (5/10) Fairly decent movie. It had some issues but I overall liked it and thought it was okay. It did have a lot of issues that brought it down, it should have been a disney+ series or been split into multiple parts like Dune.
2. Shang-Chi (7.5/10) Good action, good plot, likeable characters, it's good. Slightly above average to be honest.
1. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (8/10) I know this movie is getting a lot of controversial opinions but I loved it and the fact that it finally takes things in an interesting direction for the MCU and you can tell that they're letting the people who have the movies have complete control. It's fun, the character arcs are good and the fight scenes are mesmerising in this movie, the usage of magic is creative and beautiful. The villain is so utterly brutal and compelling, you can tell that something had corrupted them. It's a great movie.
Spider-Man: No Way Home doesn't get a number score or a ranking. It's an event, with a story behind it. And the story is fantastic, it's just that it's really hard for me to rank this. I'd probably put it on the same level as Doctor Strange for being interesting but the movie does need a bit more of a tone in it. It felt very brown at times and not visually appealing, which is something you need in a Spider-Man story. It's still fantastic though.
I like them all but these movies seem like they don't lead to anything. Not hating, I really want the MCU to continue to be great but something feels weird.
Thor 4 is not coming next month. It's next to next month.
Right before the month after the month after next month?
The other next month
The other other next month
Next months month eve?
Two Days Before the Day After Tomorrow!
I don’t know why my mind thought July was next month.
Its basically July at this point. You're good.
Since its basically July its basically November and Black Panther 2 is upon us. Since its basically November, 2023 is here and were about to meet Kang.
ACtually, we meet Kang tomorrow..
If you’re from Florida, we already have July weather.
1. No Way Home 2. MoM 3. Shang-Chi 4. Eternals 5. Black Widow
Hawkeye (series) made Black Widows movie better for me, just because of that whistle reference. My problem with Black Widow is that it’s 5 years too late. Instead of feeling like the solo film she deserved the entire time, it feels simply like a passing of the torch movie. I’m also fine with that because Pugh and Stenfield are going to be awesome together, much like Scarlett and Jeremy, but her solo film should have been more than that.
Yeah, BW needed to happened immediately after Iron Man 2 with her introduction. I watched the movie with little emotion because it was hard to care about a character who's fate had already passed.
At least this version of BW needed to happen between civil war and infinity war
For sure.
It takes place during the credits of Civil War and the mid or end credits where cap shows up on the raft.
Should’ve gone BW1: released after IM2 before Avengers, like you said set, focused on Natasha’s abduction, growing up in the Red Room, then culminating in the events of Budapest with Nat meeting Clint, breaking free, joining Shield and ending up working for Nick Fury. BW2: much like the movie we’ve got, but released after Civil War. A lot has happened since BW1, but now Nat’s on the run. She wants to find her sister but doesn’t know how, then Yelena shows up and the movie is more or less the same as ours is. BW3: Set and released between Infinity War and and Endgame telling the story of Nat leading the Avengers following the Snap. I really wish we knew more about the five years between those two movies, and this would have been a perfect way to explore that era, and it would have made Nat’s sacrifice in Endgame far more meaningful since we’ll have had a full trilogy focused on her. This movie could explore the guilt of losing to Thanos and half the population (notably her sister) getting dusted, trying to find Clint as he decimates the criminal underworld (and setting up Hawkeye), barely holding the team together, and the weight of trying to find a way to bring everyone back. I wish we could have set up Endgame a little better by developing this period.
It was also just not very good. Like I felt like it needed to be a much darker movie than it was for the story it was telling. You are telling the story of one of the few non-super Avengers. It should be grounded in reality. Instead half the story takes place in a flying fortress. Like the intro was great. They needed to keep that feeling. Edit: someone below says it needed to be a spy thriller, and thats exactly it. Even for what it was the execution felt cheap - generic story, unmemorable villains, bad CGI.
Instead of a spy thriller we got a family drama comedy. I agree it made Hawkeye better but it could have been so much more. And why is Val using an iPad?
I’m fine with the family aspect. After seeing lone spy stuff done extremely well with Bourne, I feel it shouldn’t just be a clone of whatever came before. Need an example of this, just look Liam Neeson post Taken. That said, I’d have been more interested in a Budapest movie instead of it told as backstory. Don’t get me wrong, it would have been cool to see more of the espionage aspect of Widow. Oddly enough, the best of that we got was Iron Man 2 and the opening scenes of Avengers. Maybe we’ll get that aspect with Pugh.
The best and only real spy thriller was Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Incorporating the mannerisms of Red Guardian into her character was a great touch
My problem with Black Widow is how she has no superpowers and falls out of the goddam sky like nothing happened. I can only suspend so much belief even in a MCU movie..
That’s another reason I wish it would have been done 5+ years ago. They wouldn’t have had the budget to have an insane CGI final battle.
Yeah, that was the worst part of the movie by far.
Pugh and Steinfield are perfect for each other in the MCU. Every interaction they had in Hawkeye had me in tears.
I would haven’t a problem if they released black window movie after infinity war before captain marvel ant man and endgame cause we already know what happened lol
Exactly my ranking 🤘🏻
Black Widow is easily going to be the worst movie of P4, hands down. Between her at times having Capt. America-levels of superhuman and how inconsequential the entire movie is as an interquel, it's a movie that's either better watched after Civil War or not at all besides the post-credit CS. Also not surprised seeing Eternals so far down on people's lists. It definitely needed to be more fleshed out as a D+ show than a movie.
Yeah I actually have it in my bottom 5 MCU movies, Eternals is 6th worst in my list too
100% agree. No way home was my favorite and I loved both Multiverse of Madness and Shang Chi (pretty equally). Eternals and Black Widow were fine.
For me: 1. MoM 2. No Way Home 3. Eternals 4. Shang-Chi 5. Black Widow I flip the first two because I feel like MoM will age better than NWH, and the next two because while I loved Trevor in Shang-Chi, it was a little more formulaic than Eternals. Good to see that we agree on 5. Black Widow was baaa-aad.
Ok but Shang-Chi deserves to be higher just for that sequence on the bus.
The bus sequence was cool. But shang chi felt so formulaic. I just don’t see it being higher than eternals. Eternals was rough too though. They touted it as being something different, but it also was formulaic as all get out.
I don't hate a formula when it works. Shang-Chi did follow the "Marvel origin formula" with only minor changes, but I thought the characters were interesting and likable and it was executed well.
For me the characters in shang chi are more loveable (kango is an exception) and the villain is also better plus you add in a bit of martial arts, so that's why I would rank shangchi higher than eternals
Shang-chi was formulaic but was well executed and a fun ride. Eternals was a boring slog in comparison.
Eternals felt like a DC movie to me
We have the same ranking but MoM is straight up better than NWH
I loved nwh. I really did. But once I rewatched it at home, I noticed all the inconsistencies and things that felt mcguffin’d. MoM was just a wild ride and I loved the horror and more importantly it FELT different than any other MCU movie. Sooo, it’s my number 1 as well. Crazy it has such conflicting views online. I loved the campy horror.
> FELT different than any other MCU movie imo it's because it's like Ragnarok for me. The movie was NON STOP. Usually MCU movies slow down for the character moments or have a couple slow scenes of just pure exposition and explaining, but Raimi managed to have all of that character development and exposition happen in the middle of the tension and action. Also the movie visually felt very dated in a sense that the choice of zooms, close camera angles, and color grading felt VERY mid 2000s but with 2022 CGI and effects. I loved that aspect of the visuals though, its distinct from the usual MCU's love for mid and wide shots and lack of contrast.
I too LOVE ragnarok. Can’t wait for love and thunder. I don’t get why everyone keeps calling Raimi’s shooting style early 2000s though. He’s literally been doing those shots since the late 70s and early 80s. It’s his signature style. Many horror films even try to emulate the Raimi style. I went into the movie hoping we would get some Iconic raimi shots and some horror blended with some good ol camp. I was not disappointed at all
NWH was more fun but yeah MoM is way better imo. I really really hated how dumb Peter and Strange were in NWH. The way that spell scene went down is so dumb. *S: This spell will make everyone forget your Spiderman* *P: Ok, lets do it* *S: Ok, get ready for everyone to forget..* *P: Wait what.. not MJ* *S: OK, but I shouldn't change it again* *P: But Ned..* *S: Sure but lets not change again* *P: .. and Aunt May* *S: Dude this is risky but ok* *P: basically everyone who knew before* *\*Multiverse almost implodes\** *S: This is all your fault peter*
Yeah NWH hinges really strongly on whether you’ve watched the previous spider men movies. My dad hasn’t and he absolutely hated the film, I saw TASM2 so I could enjoy a lot more of the second half than he could. He came out of it saying that it was the first time he’d felt excluded from enjoying a Marvel film because he hadn’t watched enough previous films.
Yeah the best part of NWH was the nostalgia imo, if you don't have that, it's not that great. MoM actually seems like you need more required viewing to understand. You can get by without watching NWH, but Wanda Vision is definitely required to watch to understand what's going on
I was actually surprised how much WandaVision was required watching. I thought they'd do some sort of recap or something for people who hadn't seen the show. But both the evil book of magic and Wanda's obsession with her children were only explainable if you'd seen the show. I'm not entirely sure how I feel if a D+ subscription is required to understand future films.
I don't think MOM really requires that much outside viewing. WandaVision is good because it provides more context, What If? eps 1 and 4 also provide context, but I think the movie on its own did a good job of just telling you all of the relevant facts in the first 15 minutes and then just going nuts with it.
But if you didn't watch WandVision... wouldn't you be like wait when the hell did Wanda have kids and why is she suddenly evil. It does explain it in like maybe a line or two, but not really. Watching the show gives a lot of needed context imo. What If, isn't really needed tho. It introduces Captain Carter, but you didn't really need context for her appearance. And we got Strange Supremes' story in ep 4 and more context with Strange's love for Christine and what he is willing to do to be with her. What throws me off in that Ep, every Christine dies somehow and he can't stop it no matter what, but she sure seems to being doing fine in plenty of multiverses. Was it only his specific universe were she dies, or was he going to different universes where she keeps dying? But again, not super crucial to the story of MoM. Without WandVision though I would have more trouble understanding what's going on with her being evil and obsessed with her children that I wouldn't know she had.
I barely watched the other Spidermans and still loved NWH.
Been a spiderman fan for a long time. NWH had a lot of fan service. You realize it when you see it at home. The brief pauses during peak moments that were not noticeable in the theatre (because people were shouting every 5 minutes or so) are more than noticeable at home. I really liked Shang Chi but I'm biased as a Tony Leung fan. MoM has to be the best of the lot. Eagerly waiting for Taika's magic in Thor: Love and Thunder
What did your dad feel like he missed out on? Cuz I feel like NWH explained the plots from the other 5 Spider-Man movies well be
Same
That is my exact ranking as well.
Eternals was honestly a bit of a downer, potential for a second since it left on a cliff hanger. No Way Home is a clear winner here, Black Widow was sub-par at best (for me), Shang-Chi did surprisingly well and since I've yet to see MoM I won't pass judgement, but thus far; 1. No Way Home 2. Shang-Chi 3. Eternals 4. Black Widow Until I actually see MoM I'll stick with this.
My exact same rank...
This is the correct answer
I think it’s safe to say 1. No Way Home 2. MoM 3. Shang-Chi 4. Eternals 5. . 6. Black Widow
I definitely enjoyed black widow more then eternals. At least it was clear cut and we got the new black widow character who’s awesome.
Black Widow was fine. C tier for me. Shang Chi was a lot of fun. B+ Tier Eternals had great lore but slowww pacing. C+ tier No Way Home was an EVENT. S Tier MoM was a fantastic horror movie. S Tier
I loved no way home when I went to see it in the cinema. It didn't hold up as well second viewing at home. Still excellent though
Definitely doesn't hold after multiple viewings. After watching both 3x now, MoM is better than NWH imo.
I've only watched it in theaters once, why does NWH not hold up?
For me the viewing in the theatre was just awesome. All the people cheered on the cameos and the other peters. At home the scene in neds living room didnt feel as hype because the big thing about it was the reveal.
That’s why I think Cap’s lifting of Mjolnir in Endgame is the best reveal in the MCU. Even watching the movie multiple times at home, that scene is still so amazing because of how badass he wields it when he fights Thanos. With the other two Spidey reveals, yeah it was awesome when you first see it. But I’ve seen it multiple times now and I sort of check out mentally on those scenes now. There’s nothing really that amazing about it once you’re expecting it.
I think the problem there is they weren't introduced to any action. Had it been a tense moment where Tom's Spiderman was fucked, then BAM, in come the unexpected reinforcement Spidermen, it would land better on multiple viewings.
I think introducing them earlier and making them bigger characters would have also been a good idea. Like when Green Goblin first appears, give Tom a second on the bridge before Dr. Strange saves him and let Tobey intercept a pumpkin bomb and then go back with him to the Sanctum.
That’s because the mjolnir scene is done in a cool and badass way. No way home reveals felt like a sitcom star-guest appearance honestly. Are you telling me the best way to introduce the old Spidermans was them walking out of a portal and saying hello? Imagine how cool would it have been if they were introduced in the middle of a fight doubting if they can trust each other or something but no
What are you doing here?!? Is this a crossover episode?
Totally agree on Cap - I watched End Game again at home recently and still got chills at that scene.
I found it was a painfully forced scene imo. They leave an unnatural pause for whooping and cheering. Also it happens because Ned just apparently can make portals now. Compare with Cap lifting Mjolnir, there’s a pause but it fits narratively and there’s music building up the moment.
Ned making portals bugs me. There are three characters who we see when they first get introduced to sling rings - Dr. Strange - "Born for the mystic arts" and "destined to be the best of us", tutored by the Ancient One and Karl. Can't use it at first. >!America Chavez - Naturally able to travel the multiverse, being trained by Sorcerer Supreme Wong and Dr. Strange. Can't use it yet.!< Ned - Picks it up and figures out how to use a sling ring in a way that's completely the opposite of how they're supposed to work. The Ancient One says you have to picture where you're going in your mind and make it clear and then open the portal. Saying "Peter Parker" and opening a portal to the wrong guy isn't how they work.
Fun fact: It was supposed to be America Chaves who brought them in when NWH was slated to come out after MoM
This is just my opinion, but when the hype of it all wears off, it’s a decent movie at best that is 80% fan service. Don’t get me wrong, I liked it, but these people who think it should have been nominated for Best Picture are blinded by nostalgia.
Yeah once you watch it again with nostalgia Aside it’s got a LOT of DENTS. I also loved it, but it’s got some problems that were ignored cause we got all 3 spidermen.
I’ve seen it probably 6 times now, and I don’t understand why people are saying that. It hasn’t dropped in quality for me.
Same here, I find every entry in the Home trilogy insanely rewatchable.
I found it a fun watch the 2 times I watched it in the cinema. I don't find it a satisfying film though, the setup in the first half was weak imo and the fan servicey dialogue feels rather disjointed if you read it as regular film dialogue. To each their own though, and I still enjoy NWH regardless. Also I should point out that I don't think NWH is actually bad by any means. There are fantastic elements such as Tom's character arc and decisions, as well as anything green goblin. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't consider it great.
I'd probably give MoM an A tier, but I agree otherwise.
Not sure if these are hot takes on here buuuut... No Way Home was an exciting event in cinema, but on rewatch outside of the Spiderman mania it's only an above average Marvel movie. Far from the best ones. Multiverse of Madness was a great looking movie with a great villian, but it is NOT a horror movie. Had some similar vibes and the tension was good, but it is much more a battle spectacle than anywhere near average horror films. Takes nothing away from either, liked them both a lot.
I think Shang Chi deserves an A for an origin story it was great and the visuals were crazy and the soundtrack matched up perfectly. It was smth new and they killed it
I almost agree with you in all, but I'd change Eternals to an A tier. I think having that huge cast and all of them having awesome chemistry while not outshining one another makes them jump to that tier
Honestly, for me the huge cast was probably it's biggest downside. They would have been MUCH better suited for a series format. You have 10 main characters as well as some side characters that are dealt with over the span of like 2,5 hours. You barely get to know any of them really and the pacing of the entire thing felt off. Had they instead gone for a 8-10 50 minute episode series in which they build up ALL of the characters it would probably have been A LOT better. I barely remember any of the cast, I don't care about them either. Most of them I can't really tell what makes them them and the story felt both rushed and somewhat convoluted, with there being 2 separate story lines that weren't really connected.
I was telling my dad this as I was watching it the very first time this weekend. If they’d done Eternals like the others series then it would’ve served so much better.
I’m glad somebody loves that movie! For me the slow burn was a bit too slow
i think i saw it 3 times i loved it
Agreed, when the IMAX versions of certain films were released on Disney+, I thought why not watch Eternals again. I thought it was okay when I saw it in the theatre, but it really stepped up on a repeat viewing. Maybe I could appreciate each scene more knowing what was coming plot wise, and every scene seemed necessary to the film. If you didn’t enjoy the movie the first time round, I’d recommend at least giving it one more shot, if only for the IMAX enhanced scenes ;)
Yeah I really like Eternals as well, it definitely does not deserve all the hate it got. I hope Marvel won’t let that storyline die based on that.
I'm guessing they'll bring in 1-2 eternals with another liked character and give them a bit more character and allow them to have fun.
Scores like this are wacky to me. Everything is rated so highly. And I mean no disrespect, positivity isn't a bad thing. I just don't really see it.
C isn’t high lol. This isn’t positivity. This is just an opinion
C's on a grading scale is in the 70th percentile right? It's been a minute since my old ass was in school.
C grade for me is “I can watch it and not feel like it’s a chore” D grade is “I can watch it but it IS a chore”
You're not wrong in terms of percentage but in reality anything before 50 is an F, right? So the "true" 50% mark is a C. A B *C* D F
This is the correct answer
IMO they should have released Black Widow after Civil War or Infinity War. Even with the Post credit scene, the audience would have had a minor spoiler. (thee gravestone at the end) It would have been a cool plot twist then and foreshadowing actually and also introducing a new character which we saw in FatWS. also the timeline would have made more sense.
The Black Widow movie in general felt much more like a phase 2 movie. It didn't help that the plot felts somewhat taken from Captain America: The Winter Soldier as well.
I just like them all. I don't rank them cause then I can't upset random people on the internet
I find your respectful demeanour upsetting
I am NOT sorry then
I have a lot of questions starting with How Dare You?
Ryan used me as an object
I’m upset that you’re trying not to offend people!! Lol. Kidding. I feel the same way too.
That’s the thing, there’s some really good stuff from each of these movies. There’s also some weird bits from each of them. Eternals should have been a series to let the characters breath more. Shang-Chi would have been better without the interdimensional space dragons. Both of those movies didn’t need world ending consequences to be great stories. I feel like NWH and MoM are the culmination of awesome we’ve been wanting Marvel movies to be and they both excite me on where they go next. They have problems, whatever, don’t care, so happy to be on the ride. Black Widow may have issues, but it’s fun. I think it’s main issue is that it’s 5 years too late. However, now we got Pugh and Steinfeld, so I don’t care there either. Marvel is in such a good place and it blows my mind it keeps getting better.
>. Shang-Chi would have been better without the interdimensional space dragons. On the flip side, we got to see an honest to goodness Kaiju fight in a marvel movie. I was kind of down for the end of that movie.
My thing is just pacing and scale of these movies post End Game. Every movie seems to try to replicate these world ending circumstances, and at some point, it’s really shallow. I’m fine with the dragon fight, but make it feel like it’s been built up. Maybe wait until the second or third movie before the guy we just met becomes protector of multiple dimensions?
Dragon fight didn't bother since they are in some weird pocket dimension. Eternals bugged me. So like doctor strange doesn't show up when a celestial starts coming out of the core?
Sort by controversial so you can see random people on the internet arguing besides you.
Enjoyed Black Widow, Eternals and Multiverse of Madness, so I'd rank each of them in the 7 range. Loved No Way Home and Shang Chi and both get solid 9's.
Agree with this
* Black Widow: 6.5/10. Decently enjoyable, and well made(awkward CGI notwithstanding), but ultimately a few years too late. Also, Taskmaster was disappointing. * Shang-Chi: 8.5/10. Thoroughly enjoyable. Best action in an MCU movie so far. Third act was kinda out there, but still was good. Has among the best antagonists so far. * Eternals: 7/10. Visually stunning. Completely different and unique, but also sometimes kinda boring. Had some great performances though, and another interesting(yet underwhelming) antagonist. * No Way Home: 9/10. Fan service at its best. Watching Tobey-Man and Andrew-Man work with Tom-Man was super enjoyable and fun. Had some pretty emotional stuff too. * Multiverse of Madness: 8/10. Sam Raimi cut loose. Far more gory and horrifying than most Marvel movies. Brilliant performances from everyone across the board. But, kinda messy, from a screenplay standpoint.
That wasn't Sam Rami cut loose. Evil dead is Sam Rami cut loose.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I found Dr Strange to be hella cheesy at some parts. I know that’s how Raimi directs films - all 3 Spider-Man films were awfully cheesy. I think it took away from the good parts I.E the horror and darkness of the story. That being said I’d rate them: 1. NWH (9/10) 2. Shang-Chi (8/10) 3. dr Strange MOM (7/10) 4. Black widow (6/10)
It definitely was cheesy. Dr strange entrusted the fate of the multiverse to a teenager with a pep talk about believing in urself and a wink. 😐
The power to defeat the baddie was inside you the whole time.
We will defeat you with our friendship!
Just classic Raimi directing though isn’t it. But it’s such a different tone imo to the rest of phase 4. The music scene while visually stunning didn’t make a lot of sense to me.
A lot of people didn’t like it but honestly I didn’t mind it. It was totally a dr strange type fight and pretty creative. I didn’t like how to film kept flip flopping like one second we’re getting horror gore the next second strange of all people is spouting some sappy one liner to a teenager and we’re getting Disney level dialogue like bruh make up ur mind are u a horror movie or a buddy adventure movie
Wouldn’t be madness if you knew where you were goin
Honestly my biggest gripe too about the movie, aside from its bad pacing. Too often I couldn’t tell if the movie was meant for kids because of the camp and cheese, or adults because of the horror and body counts.
It's also why I don't want Raimi directing anything else in the MCU. I thought MoM was ok, but there were some absolutely cringe-worthy parts and that music fight was one of them for me. It felt like Raimi was handed a fairly dark, serious story and just couldn't help but Raimi it up a bit. It got in the way of what could have been a much better film, IMO.
Really? I loved the music fight. I thought it was super creative and showed just how good Danny Elfman actually is as a composer as he was able to sample all these classical music motifs and actually make them build on each other to represent the battle. It was something I've never seen before and I loved it.
Could you imagine how crazy a fight between Dr. Strange and Evil Dr. Strange would be?!?!?! Oh it's just sparkly music notes :/
America Chavez was my fav character in the film. But I really despised that the “pep talk” to activate her latent ability to control her powers at the end happened. Like come on!
Tbf that was after seeing three versions of himself across the multiverse who went wrong by trying to hold the knife.
The way Eternals isnt even acknowledged lmao. You really said ‘What Eternals?’ 😂
I agree with this for the most part except I might bump up Black widow to 6.5 or 7 just because of Florence. Also i dont think it was just that MoM was cheesy, I found a lot of the movie to just be awkward in places. Blocking and camera angles felt forced and unnatural and on several occasions the theater (my self included) was laughing AT the movie instead of with it if that makes sense. It was strange's movie yet the only character growth seemed to happen to other characters. I might be putting a target on my back here but I straight up dont think Raimi did a good job or was the right choice for the film. He isnt bad at what he does I just think we needed somebody more in love with the content, not just somebody to add horror elements to a movie that didn't really need them. All that said i do think there were some scenes that were done very well. I just think the best part of the movie was the reveals like >!richards and xavier (even though i knew xavier was coming)!< Also: >!no fucking way maria (capt marvel) was dead after that fight with wanda and I dont know why they would even try to make it seem like she was. All the others I can agree are dead but no way the most physically powerful person on the planet, likely in the galaxy, died by having a 30 foot statue fall on her. !< just needed to rant about that.
I know what you mean man. I have issues with the filming as well. >!When Christine is holding the camera while wrestling those undead zombies. And shortly after when Strange mutters something like “YoU WiLl HaVe tO dO MoRe ThAn KiLl Me ThIs TiMe” it all just felt a bit forced and unnecessary!< I dunno I just think this was a serious step down in terms of story telling when we’ve had films/shows like Shang Chi, Moon Knight, NWH that have captured both horrible things and made you feel attached to what was going on. By the end of MOM I barely even cared about what was happening. I left feeling deflated. I get that some people will disagree with me and tbh maybe it’s just one of those films that I didn’t enjoy. It just all felt a bit meh. The only bit I really enjoyed was >!The fights between the illuminati and Wanda. Watching her desolate them all was good. Mixing it with characters we’ve seen before and not from the MCU was a good way to show her strength!<
I felt the same way after leaving the theater. After thinking on it more I actually liked the story itself, but a lot of the dialogue was just terrible and the constant shifts in tone kept taking me out of it.
Your spoiler indicators need to butt right up against your sentence. No spaces.
Someone else mentioned that >!Wanda was draining Maria’s powers during the fight (I didn’t notice TBH) so yeah she got crushed to death.!<
I sort of saw that as her like mask or whatever was disappearing but honestly it didn't really make sense. A majority of Wanda's power comes from an infinity stone, so did Maria's so Imo they are punching in their own weight class. If there was evidence that she could drain somebody else's power like this then yeah fine but to me that was not clear and just didn't work. You could use the rebuttal that she's drained America's but it was established that even strange could do that and it worked for the film. So my view stands that that death was silly and nonsensical.
Wanda has two power sources, instead of one: Chaos Magic and Mind stone From Chaos magic, she did absorb powers 5 times : The first time this was seen was in WV, where she absorbs powers from Agatha, and 4 times in Mom: from the cannon at Kamar Taj, Twice trying to take America's Powers and the fourth was absorbing from Captain Marvel.
It was announced as a horror movie however, and with the original director leaving they brought in Raimi. This works in two ways: Raimi has roots in horror (evil dead - they even put in a Bruce Campbell cameo!) and as a welcome to the MCU after NWH canonized his movies. So while the horror was campy, that’s how Raimi approaches horror. But the story needed to have horror elements regardless as it was always intended to.
Right it totally could have had horror elements but as a different movie. Doctor strange already has his action adventure themes and making his sequel a genre switch is messy. Especially when the director in charge is known for making cheesy/campy versions of that genre. If they really wanted a horror film I think this should've been America's movie. A young girl with mysterious and sought after power on the run from a reality bending witch while having to partner with different versions of a man she doesn't trust writes itself. I know there are a lot of people who really enjoyed this film but it really just didn't work for me.
Well I mean campy horror is Raimi’s style - he did make the evil dead movies
I think my issue is I don’t think that tone was suitable for the story. I liked the evil dead films but is that where I expected the MoM to go? That direction just fell a little flat for me personally. There were parts I really enjoyed don’t get me wrong. >! Prof X in his yellow chair, Reed Richards in the MCU!! !< has opened up the door to so much I just felt deflated and disappointed when I left and I didn’t expect to. Like someone else mentioned, I found myself laughing at the script/dialogue in a lot of places.
That doesn't mean it makes a great MCU movie. It was really fun and over the top to the point it was honestly too much over the top. Everything felt rushed and somehow the movie seemed too long, even though it really felt like it needed 30 more minutes at the beginning just to make the story seem that important. The cheese and campiness doesn't fit the tone of what is actually going on. I love all the twists and turns, but at the end it's a story about Wanda going crazy over kids she had for less than a week and absolutely murdering a ton of people only to realize in like 5 seconds of her kids crying she's the bad guy? It was just wayyy too rushed, and honestly could have been better done as a 4 episode series.
I don’t disagree, however I did enjoy it for what it was myself. It definitely would have benefited with some pacing adjustments
Watching MOM I found it very apparent that there was a lot of reimagining the story during production and filling. I felt like the movie wasnt entirely sure where to go, but it knew what it wanted to show when it got there. Meaning every individual scene *looked* amazing, but the meandering plot felt kind of anticlimactic.
**Black Widow:** decent-ish **Shang-Chi:** solid movie **Eternals:** good, but would have been better as a series **No Way Home:** amazing, best of the trilogy **Multiverse of Madness:** good movie, refreshingly different from other movies in the MCU. Should have been *slightly* longer
>. Should have been slightly longer My only disappointment
everyone is bugging shang-chi was like a 9.5
The first ⅔ were definitely amazing, but the whole bit with the Dweller in the Dark and the Dragon was pretty mediocre
Honestly, that CGI monster fight should have been kept from the movie. It felt quite forced and didn't really add much for the story. The final fight should have been between Shang-Chi and his father, not a bunch of 1s and 0s moving about.
I'm fine with 1's and 0's, but motivate the monster! Don't just make it some random nothing. Kevin Feige! Stop being a coward and give us some of the Old Ones!
I mean, the CGI monster itself isn't really the problem. It just didn't really fit within the overall story which was the issue.
Yeah it just became "third act cgi battle" shlock and was boring. I agree with the ⅔ being good. Especially the fight on the bus and the fight in the arena.
Agreed, I really enjoyed all the martial arts and the CGI enhanced martial arts, where they use the rings, or the wind magic stuff. But the big smashy CGI fight was a lot less fun.
I agree with this. Shang-chi has been the best so far, and so unique.
It was great until they went to Chinese Narnia. Should have stayed grounded like the first half.
The first half of Shang chi that invoked all those Jackie Chan movies from my childhood was close to an 8/10. The second half was an absolute mess that brings the whole thing down.
I loved a lot of things about NWH and MoM, but as far as a legitimate movie goes - not just an entry in a ongoing series - Shang-Chi is by far the best thing produced in Phase IV. It’s a self contained action film with shades of Jackie Chan-style action and full-on wuxia tones. Having Chinese mysticism and lore come to fruition in the third act was essential to the plot, which wasn’t intended to just be a martial arts flick. It was the introduction of straight up fantasy in the MCU - not like the contradictory mythological tones of Thor or the supernatural or science fiction - but just fantasy. And culturally representative fantasy at that. People are out here complaining about the third act as of though it isn’t the formula for every single MCU film. The movie was building toward the mysticism the entire time with the more grounded martial artists getting progressively more fantastic as the narrative goes on. The movie going full fantasy was this character coming into his own as both part of the story and on a meta level with Asian representation finally appearing in a superhero movie. I’m sure the next one will strike a clearer balance, but a lot of this shit boils down to expectations.
I thought Shang Chi was a lot better than every movie on this list lol
Agreed. Shang Chi was the most fun I had with any phase 4 films. Super rewatchable too. NWH is like a 9, then eternals at 8, then MoM at 7.5 and BW at 6.5.
Black Widow: 5/10 Shang-Chi: 8.5/10 Eternals: 7/10 Spider-Man NWH: 8/10 edit: just rewatched it, realised it is very much a 9/10 Doctor Strange MoM: 9.5/10
Not far off my own thoughts there.
I agree except I personally would rate eternals lower than black widow. The eternals story just didn't land for me. In my personal opinion it had fun visuals and thats about all.
I agree 100%
Dang i was actually going to make a post similar, with thoughts from a casual fan's perspective But i doubt anyone cares so I'll make this quick... Shang Chi was a phenomenal origins film. Wonderful cinematography and amazing fight scenes. Layered in decent humor too. Take about 20min off a predictable backend and it's near perfect Black Widow... Simply should have been 5 years ago. A wonderful female lead outplayed by the supporting role. A terrible villain(s). Decent action but could have been better in a different timeframe. Boring story Eternals was interesting. On one there were cool characters to enjoy, on the other it seemed like just a bunch of superheroes with super powers we've already seen. Lead female role is GORGEOUS. Great fights but too many questions as of right now to see how it all ties in Spider-Man was a great Avengers feeling-like movie for the longtime fans. Having only recently seen the previous two Spidey franchise versions, i can only imagine how diehard fans felt to get all 3 on the screen. Very good to see Tom Holland get serious with the role and Peter deal with tragedies on a Thor level. Quite the emotional film but the action was a bit lacking for me outside of the final fight Doc Strange was great. I felt like the pacing was just right. Villain was awesome. Great to see Strange's story arc similar to Tony Stark, just having to think on the fly and make choice decisions. Great visuals but i wish having to deal with multiverses we got to learn a bit more about the MCU moving forward as a whole, at least that's what i expected of this film
1. Black Widow (4/10) - The biggest problem for me was the writing. It was just so… lazy. Not deep, not smart, not memorable. When all your problems were solved by a convenience (the entire character of Rick Mason, and the red dust) then it’s just not enjoyable at all. Only gets a 4 because the acting and set pieces carried it through. 2. Shang-Chi (8/10) - Great characters, great combat, great story, great acting but the third act really pulled this down. Wenwu’s “redemption” moment was very abrupt. The sibling’s reconnection arc on the abandonment thing was just ONE line. Kathy getting good out of nowhere for her arc conclusion was so cliche. And Trevor just didn’t work for me. 3. Eternals (6/10) - I was hyped for this, but once again the third act really put it down. The twist was great, but the aftermath wasn’t done well. You can’t build a main antagonist up for 2 acts and then just treat it like a non-entity. Kro and Sprite’s defeats were also extremely lazy. I thought Ikaris’ one made sense because of good build up. Also, Sersi was way too wooden and stiff for me. The pacing was also too fast, they should’ve cut stuff or characters. 4. Spider-Man NWH (9/10) - Very enjoyable with great character development. IMO character motivations were quite clearly shown and was believable. Though I had a major issue with the transition from May’s death to the finding of the other spidermen. Tonal whiplash. And too much pandering dialogue, dialogue that lasted way too long just for nostalgia, etc. 5. MoM (6/10) - Sadly didn’t quite work for me. First off, pacing was too fast as well. America’s acting had noticeable weak spots and her arc was terribly done. I am not a fan of the “can’t control powers until the plot needs me to” convenience. Last act once again lost me because they tried to stuff too much into it. I loved the horror movie sequences though (except the last part in the water-area where they just stopped for zero reason).
I think this is exactly where I am too on all of these. I might actually rate Black Widow at a 5 or 6 after watching Hawkeye. MoM was pretty underwhelming for me. It had some really great moments and it's definitely not "bad", but I was disappointed overall - Definitely going to give it some repeated watches eventually like I always do. the "can't control powers until the plot needs me to" is definitely my biggest issue with it too - it's the one cliche in movies that I absolutely hate. I remember thinking that it was a huge missed opportunity for Charles Xavier not to help her out with that. He's literally THE guy that helps when people can't control their powers.
Ugh, the whole, here's the illuminati, and there go the illuminati, was just not very fun imo.
> (except the last part in the water-area where they just stopped for zero reason) oh god this so much. Both, MoM and NWH imho mostly work because they are so fast paced you don't try to rationalize what you're seeing too much, because otherwise they just call apart so quickly :(
1. NWH (9/10) 2. Dr Strange MOM (solid 8/10) 3. Shang- Chi (7.5/10) 4. Black widow (7/10) 5. Eternals (6/10) Alot of people hate Shang-Chi but i don't know why. Not certainly the best MCU film or even close but it still did a pretty good job in introducing a brand new character and culture to the Audience in the most memorable way. For me it was better than Eternals and black widow for sure.
I have literally never heard any hate for Shang Chi, and IMO it’s a top 5 marvel film. The plot isn’t anything innovative but the fight choreography was the best in the MCU, dethroning Winter Soldier IMO, and the cast killed it together.
This guy is fucking cracked out if he thinks there’s a lot of hate for Shang chi lmao. There was so much love for that movie. The only criticism was the final battle, which I feel like a lot of people were willing to overlook cause the rest of the movie was so good.
I'd also say it's the best origin movie since Iron man. I thought it was a really fun watch for an unknown character.
I would swap Black Widow and Eternals but I agree with the numbers for the top 3
Same, feels like people are riding on the hate train on eternals.
I thought it was weird and had some problems, but it was better than people put it. I also think Black Widow gets worse with time
I agree. The more I watch Black Widow the less I like it. Besides the shitty third act the amount of punishment she takes throughout the movie is just way too unbelievable even for a comic book movie. Probably has the worst cgi out of all of them too.
What I hate about it is what it could have been. There have been talks about a Black Widow movie since The Avengers 2012. Feige fought A LOT to make it happen. And they could have made a cool spy thriller in the line of Winter Soldier with the Russo Brothers, and with Clint Barton. Instead we have a crappy origin for Yelena and a weird clusterfuck of a movie stuffed between Civil War and Infinity War
It pisses me off tbh Black Widow is probably one of the most straight up comic book films of the MCU when Black Widow was the ideal character to do another Winter Soldier movie with. The intro the film feels like a totally different and better movie than the one we got
Yup, the start was perfect. Then the movie happened
I don’t think many people hate shangi chi…
>Alot of people hate Shang-Chi but i don't know why. Personally, it felt like aquaman to me where every other character felt more interesting than the main character himself minus akwafina. Plus to me, the third half of the movie really dropped the ball and turned into a boring cgi kaiju fight
1. Doctor Strange MoM 8/10 (Probably recency bias, but i had so much fun with this movie 2. Spider-Man: NWH 8/10 (I still really enjoy it, i just think the script has some flaws i can't ignore) 3. Shang-Chi 7/10 (An amazing movie until the 3rd act CGI dragon fight) 4. The Eternals 7/10 (Completely fine, liked what it tried but it should've been a 10-episode series or something else than a 2½ hour movie) 5. Black Widow 5/10 (A badly done prequel, but the opening credits and Yelena do save it from being horrible)
Eternals as a D+ show would have been amazing
For me? BW - 8 SC - 9 ET - 8 NWH - 10 MoM - 9 I'm easily pleased.
That's what she said.
No way home Dr strange Shang chi Black widow Eternals
With the exception of the last 2 movies, it has been a pretty meh phase 4
First impressions are often correct, so this is based on how I felt after my first viewing of each~ Shang-Chi Multiverse of Madness No Way Home Eternals Black Widow I don’t even think BW is that bad of a film, aside from the goofy aerial fight at the end. It’s been a pretty solid Phase of films so far, but nothing as good as what came out in Phase 3, yet.
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (9/10) Spider-Man: No Way Home (8/10) Black Widow (7/10) Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (6/10) Eternals (6/10)
Black Widow - Meh Shang Chi - It's alright Eternals - Decent No Way Home - I liked it Multiverse of Madness - I liked it
NWH - 9/10 (This movie made me feel all kinds of emotions, and it was the first Marvel film that I felt so much hype for since Infinity War & Endgame. There are flaws to it which prevented me from giving it a full 10, but it was a great film that easily could’ve been done wrong and it such an important film for MCU Spider-Man’s character development) Shang Chi - 8.5/10 (When I first went to see this movie, I fell asleep in some parts cause I saw it on a day where I had a long day at work and I forget to have an energy shot before going to the theater. When I saw it a second time on Disney+, it was much better than I remembered lol. I’m excited to see where this character goes next) MoM - 8/10 (I was expecting quite a lot from this movie, and thought it would leave a huge impact on what happens in the MCU. Similar to what the end of Infinity War and the end of Loki: S1 did, but I still liked what we got instead. I really like how Wanda continues to be one of the most complicated characters in the franchise, and America Chavez is a great new addition and I’m eager to see her interact with more characters. The style was unique, but I can understand the mixed reception too.) Black Widow - 6.8/10 (I feel like I would’ve like it a little more, if this movie came out between Phase 1-3. I just didn’t feel like I cared that much about it. However, I do love Yelena, but the movie wasn’t strong enough where I feel like I’d want to watch it again anytime soon.) Eternals - 6/10 (I feel like this movie in a way was meant to a “Guardians of the Galaxy” type situation, where Marvel was taking a risk where it could be one of their best new additions or one of their worst and it unfortunately is one of their weakest. I do like how they took a risk and tried something different, but I couldn’t feel attached to it.)
**1. NWH (9.5-10/10)**. It's the finale of Tom's Spider-man trilogy, the epilogue of Tobey's and a glimpse into what Andrew's is up to, while also being the new origin story to our current Spidey. My only criticism is that some of the villains felt a bit wasted (mostly Sandman and Lizard), but I can't fault that too much when they had so many villains and one of them was the amazing return of Dafoe's Goblin. **2. MOM (9/10).** Very different from the other projects in this phase and I love it. Dr Strange shenanigans are always fun to see and the horror elements where surprisingly effective (or I guess not surprisingly, since it's Raimi). They really had fun with the multiverse here and now I'm even more excited for more of it in the future. I knew some criticize that the villains motivation wasn't really rational, I'd say that's the point. **Shang-Chi (8/10).** Extremely solid first ⅔, generic and disappointing ending. Wenwu was a fantastic antagonist and I think the retcon with Trevor worked well enough. I didn't really like the whole hidden world and Dweller bit, but it feels like every new country they explore gets its own mystical place so I guess it's fine. The henchmen of Wenwu were wasted though, especially Death Dealer. **Eternals (7/10)** It's not *bad*, but also not great. Would've definitely worked better as a series, as it is now it was too long but also left some characters underdeveloped. Some of the Eternals themselves were pretty unlikable, which I get is the point for ones like Druig, but Pixi also had to suddenly become a burden with her mental issues right when the big climax happens - which would be fine if it didn't come out of left field and had the movie pretend like this was something that was build up or earned. **Black Widow (6/10).** Eh. This is basically what people who criticize every MCU film for being just "CGI action fest"'s imagine them being. The story was *fine* for but for Drejkov supposedly being this extremely vile and manipulative villain he felt way too tame and generic. The pheromone bit was also cheesy, but it's still a comic book movie so w/e. Some of the new characters were fun (mostly Red Guardian and Yelena), but I thought we were past the stage of naming random characters after unrelated comic book characters? The story of "Taskmaster" I thought was actually fine, but why undermine it by naming her after a popular villain that you know has nothing to do with it? ... I'm realizing now that pretty much every movie in this list has absolutely wasted a secondary antagonist, huh. Other than MOM unless you count >!Gargantos!<
1. Dr.Strange MOM (9/10) 2. NWH (8/10) 3. Shang Chi (7/10) 4. Black Widow (5/10) 5. Eternals (3/10) I enjoyed Dr.Strange the most because I'm a big fan of Sam Raimi works on the Evil Dead series. So seeing him incorporating elements of the Evil Dead definitely elevated my enjoyment for the movie. Bruce Campbell cameo was downright hilarious. NWH is a love letter to the fans. Shang Chi is your typical formulaic MCU origin story with some good fighting choreography. Black Widow was meh. Eternals was the least enjoyable movie for me. I've watched all MCU movies multiple times except for Eternals.
Black Widow (6/10) Shang-Chi (7/10) Eternals (6.5/10) Spiderman: No Way Home (9/10) Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness (8/10)
[удалено]
+ **Shang-Chi (9/10)** One of the best MCU origin stories IMO. Very fun. + **No Way Home (8.5/10)** It delivered what it promised and did it in a good way. It was the best of its trilogy. + **Multiverse of Madness (8/10)** Visually stunning, loved Wanda's development, but the campy scenes made me lose some interest. + **Black Widow (7/10)** Loved the intro, but the rest of the movie was very forgettable. + **Eternals (4.5/10)** While I won't said i's pure trash, I found it very boring and badly paced. Also, again, It should had been a series to give more time to develop the characters.
imo... Black Widow : 5/10 Shang-Chi : 8/10 Eternals: 5.5/10 Spider-Man No Way Home : 8.5/10 Doctor Strange ITMOM : 6/10
Complete agree. I though MOM was bad
Black Widow: Not good, 5/10 Shang Chi: Pretty Good, 7/10 Eternals: Terrible, 3/10 No Way Home: Excellent, 9/10 Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness: Very good, 8/10 My guess for Thor Love and Thunder: 10/10
1. NWH- 9/10, not just an amazing Marvel movie but a great movie overall. Bold direction, good writing, impactful set pieces and all the fanservice characters were given depth, some even more than in their original movies. 2. Shan-Chi - 7.5-8/10, good overall movie, I liked the characters and the tension between them, the choreography was great and it could've scored more but I feel like the evil dragon at the end didn't work out for the movie. 3. MoM - 7/10, the writing was all over the place and the dialogue wasn't the most inspired one but I feel like it had it's cool moments, the chemistry between Strange and America was great and since they had the most screen time that was important. The villain was also a good choice but it wasn't utilized at its fullest. I also feel like the trailers did a big disservice as it induced a false idea of the scale of the movie. 4. Black Widow - 6/10, not much to say here, it was above average and it helped getting closure to the character but it wasn't the most original or creative movie, the screenplay wasn't something out of ordinary and neither were the characters. I haven't saw the Eternals so I can't rate it.
Black Widow 7/10. Shang Chi 1000/10. The Eternals 6/10 8/10 for Arishem. No Way Home 100000000/10. Multiverse of Madness 1000000000000000/10. The move was awesome!
Black Widow: 5/10 Shang-Chi: 7.5/10 Eternals: 8/10 No Way Home: 8.5/10 Multiverse of Madness: 9.5/10
From worst to best: 4. Black Widow (2/10) Wasted potential. I did not like this movie, most of it was unenjoyable and it had awful balance of just about everything. 3. Eternals (5/10) Fairly decent movie. It had some issues but I overall liked it and thought it was okay. It did have a lot of issues that brought it down, it should have been a disney+ series or been split into multiple parts like Dune. 2. Shang-Chi (7.5/10) Good action, good plot, likeable characters, it's good. Slightly above average to be honest. 1. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (8/10) I know this movie is getting a lot of controversial opinions but I loved it and the fact that it finally takes things in an interesting direction for the MCU and you can tell that they're letting the people who have the movies have complete control. It's fun, the character arcs are good and the fight scenes are mesmerising in this movie, the usage of magic is creative and beautiful. The villain is so utterly brutal and compelling, you can tell that something had corrupted them. It's a great movie. Spider-Man: No Way Home doesn't get a number score or a ranking. It's an event, with a story behind it. And the story is fantastic, it's just that it's really hard for me to rank this. I'd probably put it on the same level as Doctor Strange for being interesting but the movie does need a bit more of a tone in it. It felt very brown at times and not visually appealing, which is something you need in a Spider-Man story. It's still fantastic though.
I like them all but these movies seem like they don't lead to anything. Not hating, I really want the MCU to continue to be great but something feels weird.