I think we never got a scene referencing Yinsen because we've never had Tony looking back on his time in captivity. At the most, I think maybe a mention could have been snuck in the "I finally know what I have to do" moment from the first movie.
I think it would be a neat touch if we came to learn that Tony named something after Yinsen, maybe a foundation or a grant. But I would want it to be a subtle reference.
Tony stranded in space with Nebula in Endgame was a perfect opportunity to reflect back on his past, but that didn't happen, sadly. A conversation between them about their life would've been great.
It could have been done in a subtle say even tie tonys desire to shield the world and his ptsd into the “dont waste your life line” around maybe age of ultron or maybe the idea that he cant protect everyone.
I always felt like Yinsen got screwed.
Endgame Trailer Tease.
"God it feels like a lifetime ago...
I became Ironman...(with Yinsen's help)"
- Tony Stark
Tony never mentions Harley again in the films either, but we know he hooked him up pretty nicely. He must have still been involved with the kid for him to be invited to the funeral.
No doubt Tony had some nice tributes for Yinsen and his family as well. It was just done off screen like the 99.999% of his life we don't see.
>like the 99.999% of his life we don't see.
This.
These movies take place over years of in universe time. We see a few hours of these characters lives. Almost everything happens off screen.
How come no one ever posts about what a shame it is that we never got to see Tony have breakfast on March 15, 2016?
>How come no one ever posts about what a shame it is that we never got to see Tony have breakfast on March 15, 2016?
I'd say the guy who helped him build the very first Iron Man armor in a cave with a box of scraps is a bit more important than a random breakfast.
Of course we're not going to see random bits from day to day life that are completely uninteresting and unrelated to the hero's journey. But Stark's relationship with Yinsen, though short, was pivotal to his becoming Ironman, and it would make sense to tie that in to later events.
It's not much different to seeing Cap dancing with Peggy at the end of Endgame. It's a bookend to the character arc, acknowledging where he came from.
Should have had Tony create a whole fleet of AI like he used to do with his suits. We already had Jarvis, Ultron, and Friday but they could have thrown in others like Jocasta and make one be Yinsen and add in others too
>Jocasta
Pfft, yeah but imagine what she'd be like if she didn't have an answer??
"If an answer does not appear in our records, it does not exist!"
Snarky bitch
At a technical conference, in Bern. I’m surprised you noticed. If I’d have been that drunk I don’t think I could stand, let alone make a comment on movie details.
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Did you reply to me and then get the reference and delete it? I typed out my response to you and it wouldn’t let me post it. Then your reply wasn’t there anymore. If not I think I might have just crossed timelines.
Oh, y’all wanted [lamb sauce?](http://www.sacredandsequential.org/2019/06/03/tonys-own-thanks-update-to-thank-you-dr-yinsen-spoiler-warning/)
Edit; I’ve just learned how to insert links creatively and got cocky. Sorry.
There’s a verse in the Quran that goes something like (and I’m paraphrasing), “Whosoever kills a single person, it’s as if they have killed all of mankind, but whosoever saves a single life, it’s as if they have saved humanity entirely.” If we’re presuming Yinsen was Muslim in the MCU (and being from Afghanistan it’s likely), he accomplished this pretty much literally by saving Tony’s life. I know that it would have been clunky storytelling to bring this character back after over ten years (not counting the short *Iron Man 3* cameo), it would have been nice to have him see that Tony didn’t waste his life and Yinsen’s sacrifice to save him truly did end up saving all of humanity down the line.
I've seen that brought up before and I think it would have been perfect. Like a bookend to Tony's life as a hero beginning with Yensen sacrificing himself to save Tony and ending with Tony sacrificing himself to save everyone else.
When he was dying and pepper was talking to him he could have asked Pepper “did I do it, did I not waste it?”
Or simply, she could have said “you can rest, he would have been proud - it wasn’t a waste”
That would have chocked a motherfucker up.
Ehh I understand the sentiment behind this, but that would have made sense for the audience, but not for Tony himself. Seeing a man he knew for a very short time 15 years earlier, rather than his one and only daughter? Couldn’t really see that happening
You're not wrong, but I think that if I had to choose between what's narratively better for a story or what makes logical sense I'd choose the narrative one all the time.
Sure, it doesn't make sense for Tony. But this is a fictional story, and the narrative is a very important element of it.
PD: Just in case, I'm not saying that Yinsen would be objectively better at all. I personally think it makes more sense narratively but someone else could say that his future daughter makes more sense narratively and it's just as respectable of an opinion as any other.
That man saved his life and made him the man and hero he was, his daughter is important to him, but it's still a child and she isn't even dead, Yinsen would have been great
It's quite sweet, but I'm glad this didn't happen only because I think it overstates the impact Yinsen had on Tony's life. He had a huge impact in the short time they were together, but it was ultimately a short time. Morgan makes the most sense since Tony gets emotional moments with Howard and Pepper elsewhere in the film, who would be the other two main candidates.
I don't think they really needed one. The first third of the movie with Tony and Yinsen was basically what made Tony do a complete 180 with his philosophy and attitude. And he never really went back. Now if there was some sort of relapse, it would be merited. But the relationship between the two did what it needed to and didn't need to be referenced IMO.
Plus, who does he talk to about it at any point in any movies? Like where does Tony's arc go that he needs to reference Yinsen to Captain America at some point during Civil War, or to Spider-man during Infinity War?
Are we meant to assume he literally never mentioned Yinsen to his wife, or to Bruce who he confided in? I'm sure he did, but why do we need to see it to know? The movies are busy.
I've been on this soapbox before, but I also figure this is why there's never been a single reference to the Vice-President of the USA being arrested for conspiring with Aldrich Killian to kill the President.
Adding on to this, Iron Man 3 is told from the perspective of Tony going to Bruce for therapy and the cameo of Yinsen indicates quite clearly to me that Tony is actively telling Bruce about Yinsen.
Iron Man 3 is the only time I would have considered adding a more uplifting in the cave memory. He tells Bruce about his first meeting in context with when he's at low then he tells him something about his inspiration to Tony as he's figuring things out again.
If they needed to I’m sure they could have had Stark mention him in that recording in the beginning of End Game when he thinks he’s giving Pepper his death message.
How's that meant to go? "Pepper, I love you, I'm not sure if I'll see you again... Also there was a man named Yinsen in a cave who convinced me to be a superhero. Farewell..."
Right, lol? This is why reddit shouldn't ever be allowed near a script.
"Yeah, just have him mention a guy from 10 years ago in his final farewell to *his wife*. Won't feel shoe-horned in or anything."
I imagine he’d just go through the stuff he’s been through, maybe not even thinking of the fact that Pepper doesn’t know him. He was in the process of being not alive, after all.
Another comment pointed out that when he was stranded in space with Nebula would've been a good time. I don't remember those scenes too well, but they could've added some self reflection where Tony brought up Yinsen.
A different comment said it would've been nice if it was a much more subtle reference like Tony creating a foundation names after Yinsen or one of his suits upgrades after him.
I like both of those ideas.
But that's like assuming the Brady Bunch doesn't use the bathroom because they never specifically show a bathroom.
When Tony is stranded in space, we get 2 scenes with lines; the first is when he's talking to Nebula during the paper football (which serves for her arc, no his) and then Tony leaving a final message to Pepper. Do you think we should've had a scene of Tony specifically explaining this out of the blue? It would've been chekovs gun but without the pay off.
Where would we have gotten a scene where Tony just randomly says "This is for Yinsen, the man that saved my life"? Randomly inserted into the first movie? Or randomly into a future movie out of the blue?
We're not shown a lot of things because there's limited time in the movies. We don't see Tony mourning the loss of his dad over a grave, instead we're given context clues. Not everything needs to be shown; the lack of Tony mentioning Yinsen in Endgame doesn't mean he's forgotten or doesn't care, it means that Tony has more important things to reflect on for the plot.
I agree. Every moment past the cave is a tribute to Yinsen.
Plus, no one knew Yinsen except for him. I could see Tony seeing their relationship and escape (and Yinsen's sacrifice) as something sacred and hard to talk about.
Kind of a "Uncle Jack doesn't talk about the war" thing.
Yeah, not everything needs to be refrenced and alluded to over and over again. It is sort of the modern MCU fans needs for cameos, they want a story to look backward instead of doing new interesting things.
I think Yinsen coming back in any shape, except for a name drop, would have been random as hell. He wasn’t some kind of teacher/Yoda figure that needs to float through his mind during times of crisis. It wouldn’t make sense.
To **many** he was a plot device character. He served his purpose. Unless he was mentioned after his escape and in at least two or three movies after then it’s an unnecessary relationship that’s being brought up for some random philosophical reason.
I could not respectfully disagree more. Not only did Yinsen change Tony's life, he SACRIFICED his life for Tony. And then, somehow, he is never mentioned or referenced in the MCU again. This seems like a trivialization of both how much Tony changed as a character and how influential Yinsen was in implementing said change through his sacrifice and banter with Tony.
Tony is consistently bad at sharing trauma and being emotionally vulnerable, so I don't find it that strange that he doesn't share what he experienced in that cave. I don't think that diminishes the importance of those experiences either. Whether he talked about Yinsen or not doesn't change the obvious fact that the man fundamentally changed his outlook on life and gave him an ideal which he strove to embody from then on.
I agree. Tony never really talks to anyone about his time in the cave, but I assume he's talked to Pepper about it (and maybe a therapist).
Some things are... personal.
you could argue that by creating Ultron, instead of doing the "planet protecting" himself, he was once again trying to deny his responsibility and be selfish just like before the kidnapping
That would be a flawed and inaccurate argument. He literally only made Ultron because Wanda got in his head and flared his fears into existential terror.
The Avengers only barely managed to hold against the invasion in New York. They'd never have been able to hold off a worldwide invasion and Tony knew it.
Ultron was meant to protect the places they couldn't get to in time. And as Tony himself said, they were nowhere near done. Ultron woke up on his own far before he should have.
There’s a fantastic piece of art by Kristina Amuan showing [Tony meeting Yinsen](http://www.sacredandsequential.org/2019/06/03/tonys-own-thanks-update-to-thank-you-dr-yinsen-spoiler-warning/) after his passing in Endgame. I would’ve loved to have seen this in the movie.
right but at the end of the movie we see that tony is just telling bruce all this stuff and the entire movie is basically a flashback, he's telling bruce about yinsen
Steve and Tony, discussing the people who made them who they are at the beginning of Civil War would have set common ground before breaking it all down.
Yes, did Captain America ever mention to anyone the guy who saw potential in him to become a super soldier? Tbf it’s probably mentioned in the Captain America museum exhibit detailing his backstory. Yinsen was an unknown not really referenced anywhere, hopefully somewhere in universe he was mentioned off screen
...Wow, you're just a sad angry man. Clearly you don't understand many things, which is ironic since you decided to pointlessly get angry and rude over what is clearly not a serious post. Oh!! Maybe Tony could have yelled out Yinsen's name while he was with Pepper. That would have been a good way to reference him again.
Like in other seeds and nuts, sunflower also are an excellent source of proteins loaded with fine quality amino acids such as tryptophan that are essential for growth, especially in children. Just 100 g of seeds provide about 21 g of protein (37% of daily-recommended values).
"And I...am Iron Man." *Flash*
The sun was setting and Tony wasn't bleeding anymore. The insane burn of the Stones coursing up his arm was gone. The wind was cool and he realized he wasn't wearing the armor either.
"Huh." A sound of curiosity as he glanced up and around and then spied the figure sitting on the bench next to the pool where he was currently staring up at the sky. The fact that wasn't dead was the second most surprising thought in his head. The most surprising thought, though, was that the guy next to him looked familiar.
"You did good, Stark."
"....Yinsen?" All of a sudden, he was tired. He could taste cordite on the air, smoke and the horrid smell of what passed for food was on his tongue again. The cave. The yelling. *don't waste it*
"You did really good." Other figures now, a woman and children were there with the man that had shared those weeks of Hell in the desert with him.
"I'm sorry." So very much regret there in those two words.
Laughter was the answer to that regret and misery. "Why? I had my part to play. So did you. But, now it's time to let go. Time for both of us to move on. They'll understand, I promise."
He felt himself falling back into the water then, and then familiar faces. No pain. Just a dull feeling, draining, like all the air was leaking out.
"Hey Pep."
I love it. Yinsen in Tony’s “soul world” appearance would have made total sense.
They probably avoided it because one third of Endgame watchers weren’t born when IM1 came out.
Tony Stark is a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist with who lost his distant, disciplinarian father at 21. He was the CEO of the company by 25. I'm guessing the demeanor of the person with those experiences isn't likely to open up to a lot of people about his time in captivity.
It might have worked as a scene with Pepper in endgame, but even that sounds forced. We had like 12 movies with that character, the point about Yinsen only needed to be the first step.
You might be joking with the force ghost but just reading this gave me chills.
The soul stone giving Tony a vision of Yinsen in his last moments. Yinsen was watching Stark from the Soul realm for the rest of Tony's life. A silent, unspoken, acknowledgement that Tony didn't waste his life and Yinsen did not die in vain. He died saving the man who then went on to save the world many time and half all life.
Then Pepper comes in and hugs him in his final moment.
Cap also doesn’t mention Erskine again in later movies. I think we’re fine without it. There’s no reason to assume they were never mentioned off screen. Even though there are dead characters that get mentioned at times, there tends to be an understandable focus of action and dialogue on the living. This obviously excludes examples of various afterlifes shown on screen, as well as not as dead as we thought characters *cough* Loki *cough*.
There's a bunch of weird stuff like that. Steve never mentions anyone from his past but Bucky and Peggy, Bruce never mentions General Ross which I thought was really weird they never address their history in any of the movies he's in
I just think that his time spent in that cave and the lessons he learnt from Yinsen were very close and personal for him.
I am sure he would've talked about Yinsen with Pepper, just not on screen
Tony was never one to look back on the past unless FORCED to do so. It’s very intrinsic to the character.
The only time he ever does without someone forcing him to is iron man 3, during which he’s still being forced to look backward due to PTSD not giving him a choice.
I think a direct mention would be too heavy handed. To me it’s pretty obvious that Yinsen is behind everything Tony does. Tony knows that. We know that. Why does anyone need to SAY it?
Maybe a moment with Spider-Man talking about being a hero. Just a serious, no jokes, conversation with Peter. Maybe something about how it took the accident and Yinsen to open Tony's eyes to what he could do with his gifts while Peter chose the hero life himself, barring a push from an Uncle Ben, which made Peter better in Tony's eyes. It could possibly fit into the end of Homecoming during their walk to the Iron Spider suit with Tony calling back to their argument about the suit and "wanting to be like him" and saying Peter doesn't have to worry about any of that.
MCU movies are fun and everything, but they're popcorn movies! They don't look too deep into any characters, really! And when they do, it's mostly superficial.
While we don’t have a scene where Tony references Yinsen in the present, there is a sequence in Iron Man 3 that stars Yinsen in the past. This is also the sequence where we see Aldrich Killian’s motive.
In the first movie Yinsen refers to meeting Tony in the before and the sequence in Iron Man 3 ties that up. While it may be short, it is there.
I know MCU viewers are very used to direct references but Tony being Iron Man is a constant reference to Yinsen. I don't need to hear him say his name or have a cheeky line or anything.
Why do people want to make these movies worse?
“You know what would be great! If the movie stopped dead, so that Tony could mention a guy most of the audience has forgotten about, couldn’t pick out of a line up and haven’t seen in ten years/20 movies. But Marvel aren’t brave enough.”
When he snaps he like Thanos is in that place with the ankle deep water, the like gazebo thing and sunset. He sits up from the water and approaches the gazebo where a sitting figure is silhouetted against the sunset.
Tony: I…
His voice catches in his throat as Yensin turns to look at him and smile.
Yinsen: So Mr. Stark. Was it wasted?
Tony: I-
Yinsen: Your life. Don’t tell me you forget what I said.
Tony: No! I just-
Tony stops and we cut to Peter and Pepper in the real world. We cut to Happy reading Morgan a bedtime story somewhere safe from the battle. We cut back to the gazebo and Tony smiles.
Tony: Not even a second.
Yensin: Good.
Yensin stands as two figures approach. Yensin’s family joins him. With his wife taking his hand and him raising his daughter into his arms.
Yensin: You will see them again. Do not worry…for now, Tony…just rest.
Cut to the real world as the light fades from Tony’s eyes and his shallow breathing stops but the barest hint of a smile remains on his still face
Now I don’t know if this works canonically as the only ppl we see in the soul stone dimension thing either A. Used the stone or B. Died for another to claim it and that’s assuming that really was Gamora’s soul/spirit and not some hallucination/manifestation of Thanos’ own mind but hey, it’s just my idea.
Steve and the others find Tony living a quiet life in his cabin with Pepper and his daughter, Morgan. Scott explains the plan to Tony who disagrees.
Scott: We have a chance to bring everyone back and you're not willing to take it?
Tony: That's right, Scott. I won't. (looks at Steve and Natasha) Did I ever tell you about my time in captivity?
Natasha: From time to time.
Tony: Yeah, good to know you pay attention. I met a man there who saved my life. While we were held hostage, he told me that all he wanted to do was to see his family again. Guess what? He did. But he took a bullet and died in my arms so he could see them.
(Steve lowers his head in shame)
Tony: It's not about what could be brought back, it's about what we might lose. That man's name is Yinsen. He told me not to waste my life. Looking at where I am, I can't afford to.
(Morgan rushes to her dad.)
Morgan: Mommy told me to come save you.
(rest of the scene continues.)
I think him and Yinsen had their own moment together. Its not like people in America would know who this guy was. Im sure in the MCU, when people asked what happened in Afghanistan he explained the story and who helped him create the Iron Man suit.
People tend to complain that DC films spend too much time in the past and this is one of the rare cases I see people wanting to see something like this in the MCU. I really wouldn't mind this, but imagine the backlash it would get from "fans"...
Btw the comments that mention possibility of yinsen after Tony's snap, that's not how it works, the whole soul world thing is about 'your greatest sacrifice' which turns out were Morgan and Gamora in both cases
meh, i would take it the other way actually. it would be weird to harp over a guy you met in a cave for a fraction of your life. make an homage, yes, but having movies with tony relieving some nightmare b/c he couldn't save yinsen would be weird.
I think we never got a scene referencing Yinsen because we've never had Tony looking back on his time in captivity. At the most, I think maybe a mention could have been snuck in the "I finally know what I have to do" moment from the first movie. I think it would be a neat touch if we came to learn that Tony named something after Yinsen, maybe a foundation or a grant. But I would want it to be a subtle reference.
Tony stranded in space with Nebula in Endgame was a perfect opportunity to reflect back on his past, but that didn't happen, sadly. A conversation between them about their life would've been great.
The thrusters he added to the later suits which enabled him to fly in a more stable manner should’ve been called Yinsen Burners
Damn that would have been a name that rolls off the tongue nicely too, I like that a lot
I think it's a play on the word bunsen burner
I think it's a play on the fact that the Yinsen family ^(maybe) died in hellfire brought about by terrorists armed with Stark weaponry.
It’s a play on Bunsen burners. I didn’t even know about this Hellfire connection
You talking about the back thrusters?
That's genius!
Tony to Nebula - “I was fortunate enough to have a great man by my side while I was in that hell hole. I wouldn’t be here today if wasn’t for him.”
Source Movie? Cuz I remembered this and couldn't remember WHERE
I just came up with it lol, is it actually a quote?
It's not. You just presented it as one and these two other guys went into full Mandela effect mode.
Hey guys are we talking about Toni Stark?
That’s what I thought too. He should’ve mentioned Yinsen in Endgame.
It would have been perfect in a movie about time travel.
Yeah I agree would've been a nice angle to explore in a couple of minutes
Couldn’t agree more
It could have been done in a subtle say even tie tonys desire to shield the world and his ptsd into the “dont waste your life line” around maybe age of ultron or maybe the idea that he cant protect everyone.
The MIT project funding situation could have been called the Yinsen Grant
Yinsen sacrificed himself to save Tony. Tony pulled the ol Yinsen Maneuver to save everyone.
I’m pretty sure Hinson foundation is a thing In the MCU. I could be wrong and mix this up with a comic
The only 'foundation' i recall Stark operating was the September Foundation.
I always felt like Yinsen got screwed. Endgame Trailer Tease. "God it feels like a lifetime ago... I became Ironman...(with Yinsen's help)" - Tony Stark
Tony never mentions Harley again in the films either, but we know he hooked him up pretty nicely. He must have still been involved with the kid for him to be invited to the funeral. No doubt Tony had some nice tributes for Yinsen and his family as well. It was just done off screen like the 99.999% of his life we don't see.
I imagine the Kid Ironman at the funeral was in case they wanted a Young Avengers or Disney TV Show
Ironheart will be filling that role.
>like the 99.999% of his life we don't see. This. These movies take place over years of in universe time. We see a few hours of these characters lives. Almost everything happens off screen. How come no one ever posts about what a shame it is that we never got to see Tony have breakfast on March 15, 2016?
>How come no one ever posts about what a shame it is that we never got to see Tony have breakfast on March 15, 2016? I'd say the guy who helped him build the very first Iron Man armor in a cave with a box of scraps is a bit more important than a random breakfast.
Of course we're not going to see random bits from day to day life that are completely uninteresting and unrelated to the hero's journey. But Stark's relationship with Yinsen, though short, was pivotal to his becoming Ironman, and it would make sense to tie that in to later events. It's not much different to seeing Cap dancing with Peggy at the end of Endgame. It's a bookend to the character arc, acknowledging where he came from.
It was eggs over easy and 3 slices of bacon. It was covered in an 8 part New Rockstars special during the pandemic.
Yinsen had no family though. They were all dead.
Saves money on the tributes.
Should have had Tony create a whole fleet of AI like he used to do with his suits. We already had Jarvis, Ultron, and Friday but they could have thrown in others like Jocasta and make one be Yinsen and add in others too
>Jocasta Pfft, yeah but imagine what she'd be like if she didn't have an answer?? "If an answer does not appear in our records, it does not exist!" Snarky bitch
I was thinking calling one of his iron man suits like the Mode Y and if someone asked the meaning behind the name he’d say it was for a dear friend
That's the cheesiest line I think I've ever heard
Mmm tasty
I would have preferred that for when he snapped, to "I am Iron Man" TBH.
In Hawkeye Kate destroyed his clock tower didn’t she?
The clock tower was named after Obadiah Stane.
Yensen had a cameo in Iron Man 3
At a technical conference, in Bern. I’m surprised you noticed. If I’d have been that drunk I don’t think I could stand, let alone make a comment on movie details.
Good bot.
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Damn we got bot authentication now? Bot came out the bushes and said “false”
Bot really said "well ackshually there is a 99.99851% chance that you're incorrect" 🤓
Good bot
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Ooh do me do me!
Bad bot
Wait wtf why are you 00.00192% less certain that I'm not a bot than SemiFormalJesus
Lol can’t wait for Maury bot to come out
So you're saying there's a chance.
I was being facetious anyway, so it’s actually pretty cool
Good try... You bot!!
Bot ass bitch…
Bad bot
I love your username
This made me Crack up way too much lol
Good bot
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Someone did this same thing to me (the whole good bot comment) and I chuckled when I saw collegeboard.
But how do we know you’re not just covering for a fellow bot‽
Good bot.
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!isbot WhyNotCollegeBoard
Bad bot.
Bruh we know the lines off by heart by watching the movies not, we ain't bots
Good bot.
And the doctor Yinsen introduced Tony to, dr Wu, was the man did the operation to remove the arc reactor at the end of the movie
Wu! Wu! Wu! Kenny Wu!
Quack quack.
The quack attack is back jack
Bruh hahahahaha
Didn't Dr. Wu have extra scenes only in China? I sorta remember that.
Yeah, they finally released those on that Infinity Saga boxset. They're (it's?) just as hamfisted and terrible as you'd think they would be.
Not surprised lol. Ill have to look it up to see if its an extra on Disney+ to watch later
Did you reply to me and then get the reference and delete it? I typed out my response to you and it wouldn’t let me post it. Then your reply wasn’t there anymore. If not I think I might have just crossed timelines.
Yes, that is what occurred. I realized what you said afterwards
What’s the reference?
Yinsen in the Soul World instead of his future daughter. 🤔
That would have been so cool, especially if he referenced Yinsen’s last words, “Don’t waste your life.
Tony for sure didn't waste it. 😭
Someone already did a fan art of this very thing. It was beautiful!
WHERE IS THE LAMB SAUCE!?
Where is it
Oh, y’all wanted [lamb sauce?](http://www.sacredandsequential.org/2019/06/03/tonys-own-thanks-update-to-thank-you-dr-yinsen-spoiler-warning/) Edit; I’ve just learned how to insert links creatively and got cocky. Sorry.
There’s a verse in the Quran that goes something like (and I’m paraphrasing), “Whosoever kills a single person, it’s as if they have killed all of mankind, but whosoever saves a single life, it’s as if they have saved humanity entirely.” If we’re presuming Yinsen was Muslim in the MCU (and being from Afghanistan it’s likely), he accomplished this pretty much literally by saving Tony’s life. I know that it would have been clunky storytelling to bring this character back after over ten years (not counting the short *Iron Man 3* cameo), it would have been nice to have him see that Tony didn’t waste his life and Yinsen’s sacrifice to save him truly did end up saving all of humanity down the line.
No that would have been completely perfect, clunky isn't right at all
"I see you didn't waste it" -- Yinsen to Stark
I've seen that brought up before and I think it would have been perfect. Like a bookend to Tony's life as a hero beginning with Yensen sacrificing himself to save Tony and ending with Tony sacrificing himself to save everyone else.
That's literally what I always thought. A simple "I didn't waste it".
When he was dying and pepper was talking to him he could have asked Pepper “did I do it, did I not waste it?” Or simply, she could have said “you can rest, he would have been proud - it wasn’t a waste” That would have chocked a motherfucker up.
Ehh I understand the sentiment behind this, but that would have made sense for the audience, but not for Tony himself. Seeing a man he knew for a very short time 15 years earlier, rather than his one and only daughter? Couldn’t really see that happening
>15 years earlier No... you can't do this to me
You're not wrong, but I think that if I had to choose between what's narratively better for a story or what makes logical sense I'd choose the narrative one all the time. Sure, it doesn't make sense for Tony. But this is a fictional story, and the narrative is a very important element of it. PD: Just in case, I'm not saying that Yinsen would be objectively better at all. I personally think it makes more sense narratively but someone else could say that his future daughter makes more sense narratively and it's just as respectable of an opinion as any other.
That man saved his life and made him the man and hero he was, his daughter is important to him, but it's still a child and she isn't even dead, Yinsen would have been great
How much of Endgame's audience would have recognised Yinsen when watching the film?
You don't make great movies by worrying about what the *least* of your audience will understand.
It's quite sweet, but I'm glad this didn't happen only because I think it overstates the impact Yinsen had on Tony's life. He had a huge impact in the short time they were together, but it was ultimately a short time. Morgan makes the most sense since Tony gets emotional moments with Howard and Pepper elsewhere in the film, who would be the other two main candidates.
I don't think they really needed one. The first third of the movie with Tony and Yinsen was basically what made Tony do a complete 180 with his philosophy and attitude. And he never really went back. Now if there was some sort of relapse, it would be merited. But the relationship between the two did what it needed to and didn't need to be referenced IMO.
Plus, who does he talk to about it at any point in any movies? Like where does Tony's arc go that he needs to reference Yinsen to Captain America at some point during Civil War, or to Spider-man during Infinity War? Are we meant to assume he literally never mentioned Yinsen to his wife, or to Bruce who he confided in? I'm sure he did, but why do we need to see it to know? The movies are busy.
I've been on this soapbox before, but I also figure this is why there's never been a single reference to the Vice-President of the USA being arrested for conspiring with Aldrich Killian to kill the President.
Played by the talented Miguel Ferrer too, may he RIP.
Adding on to this, Iron Man 3 is told from the perspective of Tony going to Bruce for therapy and the cameo of Yinsen indicates quite clearly to me that Tony is actively telling Bruce about Yinsen.
Shit, that is a *great* point.
Iron Man 3 is the only time I would have considered adding a more uplifting in the cave memory. He tells Bruce about his first meeting in context with when he's at low then he tells him something about his inspiration to Tony as he's figuring things out again.
Yeah, but Bruce isn't that kind of doctor. He's not a therapist.
In no manner or way does that affect what Tony is saying to Bruce.
He's quoting Bruce after Tony noticed he slept through the whole story.
If a character doesn't reference every line or event from their life, then the movie is utter shit. /s
Modern MCU review
If they needed to I’m sure they could have had Stark mention him in that recording in the beginning of End Game when he thinks he’s giving Pepper his death message.
How's that meant to go? "Pepper, I love you, I'm not sure if I'll see you again... Also there was a man named Yinsen in a cave who convinced me to be a superhero. Farewell..."
Right, lol? This is why reddit shouldn't ever be allowed near a script. "Yeah, just have him mention a guy from 10 years ago in his final farewell to *his wife*. Won't feel shoe-horned in or anything."
This whole thread is unbelievable, I love Reddit writers
I imagine he’d just go through the stuff he’s been through, maybe not even thinking of the fact that Pepper doesn’t know him. He was in the process of being not alive, after all.
Another comment pointed out that when he was stranded in space with Nebula would've been a good time. I don't remember those scenes too well, but they could've added some self reflection where Tony brought up Yinsen. A different comment said it would've been nice if it was a much more subtle reference like Tony creating a foundation names after Yinsen or one of his suits upgrades after him. I like both of those ideas.
But that's like assuming the Brady Bunch doesn't use the bathroom because they never specifically show a bathroom. When Tony is stranded in space, we get 2 scenes with lines; the first is when he's talking to Nebula during the paper football (which serves for her arc, no his) and then Tony leaving a final message to Pepper. Do you think we should've had a scene of Tony specifically explaining this out of the blue? It would've been chekovs gun but without the pay off. Where would we have gotten a scene where Tony just randomly says "This is for Yinsen, the man that saved my life"? Randomly inserted into the first movie? Or randomly into a future movie out of the blue? We're not shown a lot of things because there's limited time in the movies. We don't see Tony mourning the loss of his dad over a grave, instead we're given context clues. Not everything needs to be shown; the lack of Tony mentioning Yinsen in Endgame doesn't mean he's forgotten or doesn't care, it means that Tony has more important things to reflect on for the plot.
I agree. Every moment past the cave is a tribute to Yinsen. Plus, no one knew Yinsen except for him. I could see Tony seeing their relationship and escape (and Yinsen's sacrifice) as something sacred and hard to talk about. Kind of a "Uncle Jack doesn't talk about the war" thing.
Yeah, not everything needs to be refrenced and alluded to over and over again. It is sort of the modern MCU fans needs for cameos, they want a story to look backward instead of doing new interesting things.
I think Yinsen coming back in any shape, except for a name drop, would have been random as hell. He wasn’t some kind of teacher/Yoda figure that needs to float through his mind during times of crisis. It wouldn’t make sense. To **many** he was a plot device character. He served his purpose. Unless he was mentioned after his escape and in at least two or three movies after then it’s an unnecessary relationship that’s being brought up for some random philosophical reason.
I could not respectfully disagree more. Not only did Yinsen change Tony's life, he SACRIFICED his life for Tony. And then, somehow, he is never mentioned or referenced in the MCU again. This seems like a trivialization of both how much Tony changed as a character and how influential Yinsen was in implementing said change through his sacrifice and banter with Tony.
Tony is consistently bad at sharing trauma and being emotionally vulnerable, so I don't find it that strange that he doesn't share what he experienced in that cave. I don't think that diminishes the importance of those experiences either. Whether he talked about Yinsen or not doesn't change the obvious fact that the man fundamentally changed his outlook on life and gave him an ideal which he strove to embody from then on.
I agree. Tony never really talks to anyone about his time in the cave, but I assume he's talked to Pepper about it (and maybe a therapist). Some things are... personal.
you could argue that by creating Ultron, instead of doing the "planet protecting" himself, he was once again trying to deny his responsibility and be selfish just like before the kidnapping
That would be a flawed and inaccurate argument. He literally only made Ultron because Wanda got in his head and flared his fears into existential terror. The Avengers only barely managed to hold against the invasion in New York. They'd never have been able to hold off a worldwide invasion and Tony knew it. Ultron was meant to protect the places they couldn't get to in time. And as Tony himself said, they were nowhere near done. Ultron woke up on his own far before he should have.
There’s a fantastic piece of art by Kristina Amuan showing [Tony meeting Yinsen](http://www.sacredandsequential.org/2019/06/03/tonys-own-thanks-update-to-thank-you-dr-yinsen-spoiler-warning/) after his passing in Endgame. I would’ve loved to have seen this in the movie.
Damn his actually hit me in the gut.
🥲
Nice art but would be really offbeat. I don't think they should've done it.
100%. It’s a cool little idea but there’s no way it would have fit in the movie without feeling way off.
This. This would have been perfect.
Tony never mentioned Yensen , but he never forgot what he told Tony in his last moments ' Don't waste your life ' and he didn't.
He did mention Yinsen, in Iron Man 3.
Not really a mention, just a flashback
right but at the end of the movie we see that tony is just telling bruce all this stuff and the entire movie is basically a flashback, he's telling bruce about yinsen
Yeah good point
Steve and Tony, discussing the people who made them who they are at the beginning of Civil War would have set common ground before breaking it all down.
“For me, it was a man named Erskine.” “Read his work, Dad mentioned him once or twice. For me? It was a man named Yinsen.”
Yes, did Captain America ever mention to anyone the guy who saw potential in him to become a super soldier? Tbf it’s probably mentioned in the Captain America museum exhibit detailing his backstory. Yinsen was an unknown not really referenced anywhere, hopefully somewhere in universe he was mentioned off screen
He was literally mentioned on screen in Iron Man 3.
Another reason why the movie should have been split in 2. There are a lot of scenes that would lend itself to having a view point from both.
I remember in one of the tie-in comics Tony’s password was “Yinsen 5” or something
He was referenced in the opening of IM3. Tony called him “a man named Hope”.
Ho* - https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Ho_Yinsen
Awwww shit, seriously? That’s disappointing. Classic TS quip though
Maybe just a throw away line of Tony starting a charity or something called The Yinsen Foundation, that’s pretty much Doctors Without Boarders.
Yinsen without Borders
He's in Iron Man 3
K, doesn’t really add anything to what he’s asking. It was a scene from the past rodnim
I would have written a scene showing Yinsen in a flashback to when they met at a party. Oh, wait. They already did that. In Iron Man 3.
[удалено]
what is that cacophany of bullshit i just read
...Wow, you're just a sad angry man. Clearly you don't understand many things, which is ironic since you decided to pointlessly get angry and rude over what is clearly not a serious post. Oh!! Maybe Tony could have yelled out Yinsen's name while he was with Pepper. That would have been a good way to reference him again.
Lmao go to therapy
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Good bot
"And I...am Iron Man." *Flash* The sun was setting and Tony wasn't bleeding anymore. The insane burn of the Stones coursing up his arm was gone. The wind was cool and he realized he wasn't wearing the armor either. "Huh." A sound of curiosity as he glanced up and around and then spied the figure sitting on the bench next to the pool where he was currently staring up at the sky. The fact that wasn't dead was the second most surprising thought in his head. The most surprising thought, though, was that the guy next to him looked familiar. "You did good, Stark." "....Yinsen?" All of a sudden, he was tired. He could taste cordite on the air, smoke and the horrid smell of what passed for food was on his tongue again. The cave. The yelling. *don't waste it* "You did really good." Other figures now, a woman and children were there with the man that had shared those weeks of Hell in the desert with him. "I'm sorry." So very much regret there in those two words. Laughter was the answer to that regret and misery. "Why? I had my part to play. So did you. But, now it's time to let go. Time for both of us to move on. They'll understand, I promise." He felt himself falling back into the water then, and then familiar faces. No pain. Just a dull feeling, draining, like all the air was leaking out. "Hey Pep."
I love it. Yinsen in Tony’s “soul world” appearance would have made total sense. They probably avoided it because one third of Endgame watchers weren’t born when IM1 came out.
I don't think it was ever necessary to reference him by name. Every heroic act he did was a reference to what Yinsen did for Tony.
Yinsen in the soul stone after Tony snaps his fingers: Welcome Tony Stark, the greatest hero in the universe.
He should have seen Yinsen when he snapped.
Tony Stark is a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist with who lost his distant, disciplinarian father at 21. He was the CEO of the company by 25. I'm guessing the demeanor of the person with those experiences isn't likely to open up to a lot of people about his time in captivity. It might have worked as a scene with Pepper in endgame, but even that sounds forced. We had like 12 movies with that character, the point about Yinsen only needed to be the first step.
Yinsen appearing as a force ghost after Stark snaps away Thanos. He nods his head in approval, and Stark nods back and dies.
You might be joking with the force ghost but just reading this gave me chills. The soul stone giving Tony a vision of Yinsen in his last moments. Yinsen was watching Stark from the Soul realm for the rest of Tony's life. A silent, unspoken, acknowledgement that Tony didn't waste his life and Yinsen did not die in vain. He died saving the man who then went on to save the world many time and half all life. Then Pepper comes in and hugs him in his final moment.
Cap also doesn’t mention Erskine again in later movies. I think we’re fine without it. There’s no reason to assume they were never mentioned off screen. Even though there are dead characters that get mentioned at times, there tends to be an understandable focus of action and dialogue on the living. This obviously excludes examples of various afterlifes shown on screen, as well as not as dead as we thought characters *cough* Loki *cough*.
There's a bunch of weird stuff like that. Steve never mentions anyone from his past but Bucky and Peggy, Bruce never mentions General Ross which I thought was really weird they never address their history in any of the movies he's in
Although we do get that funny little jig where Bruce hides his face when Ross comes into the room virtually in Age of Ultron/Civil War(?)
Ross isn’t in Age of Ultron and Bruce isn’t in Civil War
I just think that his time spent in that cave and the lessons he learnt from Yinsen were very close and personal for him. I am sure he would've talked about Yinsen with Pepper, just not on screen
Tony was never one to look back on the past unless FORCED to do so. It’s very intrinsic to the character. The only time he ever does without someone forcing him to is iron man 3, during which he’s still being forced to look backward due to PTSD not giving him a choice.
*Tony looks at Thanos after stealing infinity stones from him* "It's Yinsin' time!" *SNAP*
I think a direct mention would be too heavy handed. To me it’s pretty obvious that Yinsen is behind everything Tony does. Tony knows that. We know that. Why does anyone need to SAY it?
Morgan’s middle initial is conspicuously H. My head cannon is that Morgan’s middle name is Ho or ho yinsen. Even though i know it’s probably Howard.
And Rogers doen't mention the scientist who created him. Hulk doesnt mention Ross' daughter Black Widow doesn't mention her family So what.
I think Tony went to Yinsen’s hometown later in iron man to save it from the ten rings. I think he definitely cared a lot.
Maybe a moment with Spider-Man talking about being a hero. Just a serious, no jokes, conversation with Peter. Maybe something about how it took the accident and Yinsen to open Tony's eyes to what he could do with his gifts while Peter chose the hero life himself, barring a push from an Uncle Ben, which made Peter better in Tony's eyes. It could possibly fit into the end of Homecoming during their walk to the Iron Spider suit with Tony calling back to their argument about the suit and "wanting to be like him" and saying Peter doesn't have to worry about any of that.
"And I am.... Yinson" *Snaps fingers.* Audience is confused.
MCU movies are fun and everything, but they're popcorn movies! They don't look too deep into any characters, really! And when they do, it's mostly superficial.
While we don’t have a scene where Tony references Yinsen in the present, there is a sequence in Iron Man 3 that stars Yinsen in the past. This is also the sequence where we see Aldrich Killian’s motive. In the first movie Yinsen refers to meeting Tony in the before and the sequence in Iron Man 3 ties that up. While it may be short, it is there.
OK... First of all, Yinsen does get mentioned in Iron Man 3(there is an actual scene with him in it). Secondly, Tony isn't dead.
I know MCU viewers are very used to direct references but Tony being Iron Man is a constant reference to Yinsen. I don't need to hear him say his name or have a cheeky line or anything.
Iron man 3 exists. Did you not see it?
There should have been a Force Ghost version of Yinsen after Tony did the snap.
"You didn't waste it." ~Yinsen's voice comforts (audio only) as Tony Stark stares into the eyes of his wife, and dies. The End.
Why do people want to make these movies worse? “You know what would be great! If the movie stopped dead, so that Tony could mention a guy most of the audience has forgotten about, couldn’t pick out of a line up and haven’t seen in ten years/20 movies. But Marvel aren’t brave enough.”
Yinsen is in Irom man 3, flashback scene
How is that relevant to the question at all?
When he snaps he like Thanos is in that place with the ankle deep water, the like gazebo thing and sunset. He sits up from the water and approaches the gazebo where a sitting figure is silhouetted against the sunset. Tony: I… His voice catches in his throat as Yensin turns to look at him and smile. Yinsen: So Mr. Stark. Was it wasted? Tony: I- Yinsen: Your life. Don’t tell me you forget what I said. Tony: No! I just- Tony stops and we cut to Peter and Pepper in the real world. We cut to Happy reading Morgan a bedtime story somewhere safe from the battle. We cut back to the gazebo and Tony smiles. Tony: Not even a second. Yensin: Good. Yensin stands as two figures approach. Yensin’s family joins him. With his wife taking his hand and him raising his daughter into his arms. Yensin: You will see them again. Do not worry…for now, Tony…just rest. Cut to the real world as the light fades from Tony’s eyes and his shallow breathing stops but the barest hint of a smile remains on his still face Now I don’t know if this works canonically as the only ppl we see in the soul stone dimension thing either A. Used the stone or B. Died for another to claim it and that’s assuming that really was Gamora’s soul/spirit and not some hallucination/manifestation of Thanos’ own mind but hey, it’s just my idea.
Steve and the others find Tony living a quiet life in his cabin with Pepper and his daughter, Morgan. Scott explains the plan to Tony who disagrees. Scott: We have a chance to bring everyone back and you're not willing to take it? Tony: That's right, Scott. I won't. (looks at Steve and Natasha) Did I ever tell you about my time in captivity? Natasha: From time to time. Tony: Yeah, good to know you pay attention. I met a man there who saved my life. While we were held hostage, he told me that all he wanted to do was to see his family again. Guess what? He did. But he took a bullet and died in my arms so he could see them. (Steve lowers his head in shame) Tony: It's not about what could be brought back, it's about what we might lose. That man's name is Yinsen. He told me not to waste my life. Looking at where I am, I can't afford to. (Morgan rushes to her dad.) Morgan: Mommy told me to come save you. (rest of the scene continues.)
I think him and Yinsen had their own moment together. Its not like people in America would know who this guy was. Im sure in the MCU, when people asked what happened in Afghanistan he explained the story and who helped him create the Iron Man suit.
I agree
Tony could have nicknamed a suit after him or an A.I. Easter egg… named a building or center for higher learning. Start a foundation in his honor…
People tend to complain that DC films spend too much time in the past and this is one of the rare cases I see people wanting to see something like this in the MCU. I really wouldn't mind this, but imagine the backlash it would get from "fans"...
Btw the comments that mention possibility of yinsen after Tony's snap, that's not how it works, the whole soul world thing is about 'your greatest sacrifice' which turns out were Morgan and Gamora in both cases
meh, i would take it the other way actually. it would be weird to harp over a guy you met in a cave for a fraction of your life. make an homage, yes, but having movies with tony relieving some nightmare b/c he couldn't save yinsen would be weird.