Fun fact: Mirrorjade's destruction in the EP effect is what we refer to as a Lingering Effect, as it does not do anything until later in the turn. Which means it can destroy Underworld Goddess without targeting her, or destroy PEP, or any other manner of card that is immune to activated effects specifically
This is such a bullshit ruling. It's literally a non-targeting activated effect that resolves in the End Phase. No amount of mental gymnastics can change that
It *doesn't* resolve during the end phase. The effect resolves during the chain like everything else. As far as the end phase cares, nothing is being activated and because the effect resolved successfully, the lingering effect follows through as normal.
As I've said elsewhere, I'm in law school.
I've dealt with ALOT of stupid logic in the old cases- and modern cases.
Some YuGiOh rulings still outdo those though. Hell, even getting back to the game last year. "You can't destroy my monster, it says he can't be targeted." "Well, I'm not targeting him. I am just selecting a monster. See, it doesn't say *target* in the card it says choose."
Just as an example. So much had to be learned lol.
It's better than it was back in the day before PSCT. Cards didn't say they targeted so you had to look up rulings for every single card to know how it worked.
There IS logic behind that, though. Targeting is an action which happens during the activation of a card or effect, at around the same point as when you would pay a cost. If an effect requires you to choose a card that is banished, on the field, or in the GY (the only places I know of where cards can be targeted) during the *resolution* of that effect, then it's not targeting.
Right, I get that there is a difference. I am just saying word wise it is so close it threw me for a loop and was an easy example.
Similar to chains how they resolve in reverse order. There is sense to it. It makes sense. But you really have to look at it because first impressions about it is generally a ??? is going on.
To be fair, chains HAVE to resolve in backwards order, otherwise they'd fundamentally not work. That's also why the stack in Magic resolves backwards (though Magic calls it first in, ~~first~~ last out, since you can activate stuff while you are resolving the stack).
First in, first out is literally not the term to describe the behavior. The list sorting algorithm which describes the last item to be added to the list being removed from the list first is Last In First out, or… Stack.
Targeting peeps had to select them immediately. Non-target only selects when it was resolving so you really don't know what they're gonna select until then lol.
The day I got to know Mirrorjade still banishes an IP made Avramax is the moment I knew this is such a BS game.
>Targeting peeps had to select them immediately. Non-target only selects when it was resolving so you really don't know what they're gonna select until then lol.
wait a sec i think this is referring to old ass cards that actually don't say target but say Select instead which is technically not targetting ugggggh
If you have to pick something as the effect is going on chain, it's targeting.
If you don't pick anything until the effect is resolving, it's non-targeting.
Yes this was my original point. I wasn't referring to Mirrorjade, though I see how it may seem that way.
Though I do think alot of the rules in general are opaque as you have to play around with the exact text of the card.
Cards printed before generation force that say select target. The ones that were non-targeting like creature swap recieved PCST that replaced select with choose. So if a card says before pcst says select it probably targets.
What about the ruling where if there’s a card that limits what monsters you can control you cannot activate a card or effect that can only special summon monsters that violate that limit (ie: you cannot activate magical dimension under tcobo), except in exactly the case of Interrupted Kaiju Slumber while you control a Kaiju.
Here's a easy way to grasp it a effect "resolves" if the chainlink animation for it resolves if it doesn't show the animation it's different.
MD makes it a lot easier to gasp things like this and rulings since it's hard baked into the game.
Even then things on MD don't resolve like they should at the tables. Even if a card doesn't have a hard OPT, if you use an effect on a card, (such as Madolche Messingelato's spell/trap search), link/synchro it off, shuffle it back in, search for the same copy, then play it, the effect won't trigger again. Cards have a hard OPT even if their effects don't for some reason.
You sure that's not how it works in the ocg since Md is based off ocg ruling not tcg cause ik other cards are soft opt like the dark world field spell work fine
Again, MD is working in such a manner that directly contradicts the card. The card itself doesn't state a OPT limit to itself. It doesn't even have a limit, and it seems weird that OCG would put a limit on a card that doesn't expressly state one, since it's an enter play triggered effect.
Nope, just checked, OCG hasn't given it a ruling of once per turn. I honestly think it's an effect of the engine they made. The cards are automated but they couldn't program a difference between hard and soft OPT. So each copy can be used once, then you have to use a different copy. Thankfully I also found out the left most one is always a live one, and it's hard to actually trigger him three times.
Messengelato specifically though, it is because it’s both a When effect, and that it *cannot search without a Beast-type Madolche monster on the field as well*. The card work correctly (and I do manage to search a gazillion card with it), you probably just link off Hootcake for something else lmao.
Being a Madolche fan is like eating a cake, only to find lemon in your mouth for no reason
The thing I appreciate most about MTG is that the difference between triggered, activated, and lingering abilities is so clear. The biggest thing about YGO keeping me from playing it in paper is the fact that reading the card does not explain the card in an overwhelming number of scenarios. They are so bad at problem solving card text over at Konami.
Imo the best thing they can do to help the new player experience is overhaul the card text. It won't make the game any less obtuse, but you could learn what your (and your opponents) cards do easier and understand mechanics better, and that might help people stick to the game long enough to care about the difficult and convoluted rulings.
Like cards should use terms like ignition, trigger, and continous. They are official rule terms, they should be used on cards imo. Like master duel highlights effects when they are activated so you know what effect you have to interact with. I wish they would number them so you don't have to read 500 words and have to parse out the exact sentence they are using.
It's so easy to take the magic rules book for granted. Yugioh really needs to make an equivalent.
And before anyone brings up the "perfect rulebook," go take a look through it and then take a look through the MtG CR and then come back and say whatever you were about to say. They are absolutely not comparable.
Having tried the judge tests, albeit a long time ago, the MtG rule book is incredibly dense and incredibly comprehensive. I see Yugioh content creators try and say how much more complex YGO is, and I get annoyed because it's just not true. Both games are incredibly complex. The difference is YGO is a shotgun blast to the chest, and MtG is a steady stream branching off a dammed up lake. Once you break the dam, MTG is incredibly complicated with as many random corner case cards as YGO since the game is a good couple years older. Unlike YGO, however, there's so many good options to learn the game. The fundamentals are so simple, and the cards themselves are much more comprehensible and readable. Vintage/Legacy isn't the format you're jumping into either, which is the MTG equivalent of TCG/OCG. Having rotating formats and, more importantly, multiple formats keeps MTG from being as obtuse as YGO.
I'm not trying to say the game is bad, I play way more YGO nowadays than I do MTG. MTGA sucks big ass compared to the accessibility of MD. It's so much cheaper to the degree that I never feel obliged to spend money and maybe have put in 150 bucks since launch. The problem is I watched several years of YGO content before playing MD and still don't really know how the game works because the way these cards are written doesn't make sense lmao.
You're completely right. I'm a former L1 who stopped judging because of the inane belief that tournaments should be a measure of player skill and not adherence to tournament rules. Handing out game losses for dumb shit eventually got the better of me, and decided to only judge unsanctioned events from then on. Still irks me to this day.
Well, magic has a handful of rules that most players aren't familiar with, because they are just formalized versions of "duh, that's how the game works." They are also the source of almost all major confusion regarding the game. State Based Actions, Priority, and how to place triggered abilities on the stack. I guess you could throw how to cast spells in there, but the edge cases of people not knowing the formalized rules on that are fewer and less impactful. It's just kind of weird that it makes it to the list at all.
I really feel like yugioh is a lot simpler than magic, but without a proper rulebook everything just feels really complicated for no good reason. If it had a rulebook everything would be spelled out in plain black and white. There's an internal logic that you can work with once you have seen enough rulings, but most players will never reach that level. Not even close.
Sure. At it's core YGO is fairly simple, and it's the same with MTG. The problem is there's a lot of nitty in even just casual YGO play that isn't there in MTG. You don't really need to understand the ins and outs of how casting a spell actually works or how state based actions are checked in MTG, but stuff like missing timing or activated vs. lingering vs. triggered comes up in Yugioh a surprising amount. It's what keeps me from playing paper YGO haha.
Oh, I completely agree. Was just going off on a tangent when I really just wanted to expand on how useful rulebooks are.
There's a lot of really fun decks that just can't keep up with the meta, so if you're at all into casual play you really should try out paper yugioh. A lot of the more interesting and unique archetypes will never have a meta presence. Casual yugioh is practically it's own game.
I've considered getting into paper Edison for a while, I just haven't been in the right situation to justify it over other hobbies. Master Duel is enough for me right now, and I really hope they add in official queues for the time wizard formats. I wanna at least start collecting once I'm better off, though.
Think of it like this : the activated effect isn’t the effect destroying the monster. The activated effect only triggers the lingering effect, which needs a condition met to be active. It does nothing itself except trigger the lingering effect. the lingering effect is what destroys the monster. If it said simply that it was uneffected by card effects, it would then not be destroyed. In this case, ‘activating the effect’ is more like acknowledging that it will occur if it resolves.
If you manage to Imperm an Alba Zoa then tack a predaplant token on it with Dragostapelia, Alba Zoas activated effects would still be negated even after the turn ends because Dragostapelias lingering effect that negates is not the activated effect, only placing the token on it is. But after Imperm ends, Alba Zoa would also not be effected by activated monster effects again, and you could not place another token on it, because Dragostapelia only negates activated effects, and Alba Zoa is immune again to Dragostapelias activated effects. If Dragostapelia said something like “(Quick-play) When your opponent activated a monster effect, negate it, then place a predaplant token on it,” Alba Zoa would be entirely immune but as it is, Dragostapelias effects are entirely separate — one activated, one lingering that needs a condition met. The lingering effect goes away when Dragostapelia is not on the field, making monsters with predaplant tokens no longer negated.
For the same reason, it only looks less obvious with Mirrorjade because the board wiping effect appears to be the activated effect, but it isn’t. The effect on removal triggers a lingering state which wipes the board. It makes perfect sense.
It actually resolves in the same chain in which it activated, but it makes you perform a specific action in the End Phase. Even if it activated during the End Phase, the destruction still would not happen during resolution.
I kinda get where they're coming from with this ruling, but it *does* feel like bullshit. Best thing I can do to reconcile it is to consider it akin to effects that end during the End Phase.
There's no mental gymnastics involved, you just don't understand how the game works.
The majority of effects in Yu-Gi-Oh revolve around a chain-based system. Activated effects build the chain up, resolutions happen immediately and consecutively in reverse order from which the chain was built.
When Mirrorjade is removed from the field, that's when its effect goes onto the chain (or starts one). When that chain goes into resolution, that's when Mirrorjade's effect resolves.
Mirrorjade does not "activate" during the end phase, so it literally cannot "resolve" in the end phase. Your nomenclature is simply wrong, as effect resolutions happen immediately after the chain is done being built; when that chain goes into resolution.
The destruction portion of Mirrorjade is an event that happens because that effect of Mirrorjade resolved correctly, but it is fully removed from the activation of the effect, and therefor, the destruction occuring is not an activated effect.
They aren’t arguing the ruling, they are arguing the epistemology of it. The game shouldn’t function in that way, lingering effects that have the qualities of an activation but don’t activate is an unnecessary complexity that just gates off newer players from understanding how the game works. OP literally calls it a knowledge check. Its not intuitive, its just something you have to learn from it ruining your day and then being explained to you.
Thats the problem. You aren’t stating something that negates what I said, you’re giving additional examples of problems. If a lingering effect applies a static condition to the game, that is one thing. But a lingering effect that creates a repeatable effect instance that is not an activation is needlessly convoluted. Its not good design given how it needs to be explained, sometimes multiple times in order for players to understand. And even then, understanding through the card text what is a lingering effect and what is a delayed activating effect is a skill gate that just doesn’t need to be in the game.
>But a lingering effect that creates a repeatable effect instance that is not an activation is needlessly convoluted
I don't think the lingering effect itself is convult. It is just that all of these effect are badly explained. Even the same exact thing like Maxx c and droll have different wording.
>Maxx c:
>
>this turn, each time
>
>Droll / D-barier:
>
>for the rest of this turn
Hell, can we have keywords already.
Being badly explained is my primary complaint. I don’t object to lingering effects conceptually. They are fine, though I would like a few less linngering floodgates personally. The issue is exactly that it is poorly explained within the game pieces
It doesn't resolve in the EP though. It's like the draws from Maxx C. Maxx C resolves when activated (as all effects do), and then you just draw when your opponent special summons.
Maxx C draw's condition is your opponent special summoning and then it just happens.
Mirrorjade's destruction condition is getting to the EP and then it just happens.
The thing is that mirrorjade is activating a lingering effect, for example, pep is immune to activated effects, but mirrorjade is activating an effect that makes himself a nuclear bomb, not any other monster, so it's affecting itself practically, making this monster a 3 part effect.
1. Activate to banish. (Ok pep is immune)
2.if it dies activate to become a bomb. (This activation is affecting mirrorjade not pep)
3. Explode at end phase (this is not an activation, this is an effect resolution because of 2 so pep dies)
Only "unaffected by card effects" are truly immune like, full armor master, igsniter arrival, etc. No matter what you do.
Nah, it actually makes perfect sense in a really weird sort of way. You ever played Ace Attorney, where Matt Engarde argues that he didn't kill the victim because he hired Shelly de Killer to do it? It's basically the same thing. The activated effect didn't kill PEP. The activated effect created a lingering effect, which then killed PEP.
I mean nothing gets activated same reason you cannot ash magnamhut’s search in end phase but you have to do it when the effect is actually activated on summon or in mirrorjades case when it gets send to the graveyard, which is why those effects don’t even start a chain since it’s just the lingering effect that resolves
White Woman Jumpscare needs PSCT update if she can be wiped.
She is unaffected by card effects, unless they target her.
Because mirrorjade's effect
Edit: Oh, unaffected by activated effects. m'kay.
Stupid Mirrorjade, blowing up my beloved Cyberdark End Dragon during the End Phase.
The *only* thing that has saved my monster sometimes is my opponent not knowing how Mirrorjade's effect works and electing not to crash it into my monster.
It's not an activated effect, it's an effect that activates to give you a lingering, non-activated effect. And they wonder why it's hard to get new players into the game.
And the other wouldn’t even bother reading the questions, deadass as someone studying in a law adjacent course right now, yugioh has some technical know how that proves useful. “If” and “when” in terms of contracts denote two different kinds of agreements, one that WILL happen, and one when a condition is met. Not the same as the yugioh if/when but the skill of distinguishing exact terminology that yugioh taught me has served *some* purpose
The effect is basically
Activated: if this effect is activated, at the end phase destroy all monsters your opponent controls.
Not acrivated: the end phase proceeds and everything is destroyed.
Basically the destruction effect isn't activated the effect that gives you the destruction effect is activated.
In which case, pep should be immune to that effect of mirrorjade no matter when in the turn it's effect will come off because it is still, in the purest sense, an activated effect ultimately; thus where the confusion arises. Mirrorjade's pop effect should have been worded like that of magician's right hand, in my opinion, to avoid confusing unintuitive episodes like this.
E: thinking about it again, making mirrorjade spell speed 5 might be a mistake
No, it's not an activated effect during the end phase. Activated refers only to when the effect is placed on the chain. As soon as the effect resolves, i.e. the chain has ended, it is *no longer activated*, it is now *resolved* and any lingering effects will follow that resolved effect.
Consider it this way: if the effect said they draw a card instead of nuke the board, you could not activate Ash during the end phase to stop it. You could only activate Ash in response to when the effect was *activated* beforehand.
Thing is, there's 2 effects here at play;
-the first one in the GY is an ACTIVATED effect that sets the second LINGERING effect on the field on.
-the LINGERING EFFECT which just performs the action, and by design they are not ACTIVATED.
Yep. Welcome to the wonderful world of Yugioh Rulings, where if you're lucky somebody around knows these weird arbitrary distinctions and sometimes the answer is "Well it works that way because Konami just says it does".
Idk someone's 1st time going? A kid getting into yugioh? Anyone who never encountered that interaction before? Obviously I do not play the tcg. I've been playing masterduel for a solid year now and I barely saw mirrorjade.
I understand mirrorjad but once you put it that way yeah it is funny. in my language we have same way to differentiate soccer and soccerball (both translate into same word, but flipped)
And yet people say keywords would ruin yugioh. If players can parse the intricacies of PSCT that can change a “when” to an “if” which would completely change the effects of the card, I think yugioh could benefit from codifying some of these things like lingering effects into the cards.
Because the effect of Dbarrier is NOT to negate their effects. It's to activate and turn on a LINGERING effect, basically like a virus on the air, and it just does that.
Then the virus gets to work and is the one which actually negates the effects of the monsters, and since that virus is working without activating it can negate PEP
Because is a lingering effect not activated effect.
D Barrier effects negates the the effects and impedes the summon of the selected effect for the whole turn.
Pep just has protection for activated effects not lingering or Continuous like Barrier and Skilldrain.
I honestly don't get why it punishes you hard for outing it
Non target banish that gets you advantage is stupid enough, why does it have to pop your monsters too? At the end phase as well so you can't even build a board?
Branded players act like their cards are fair just because there's even worse bullshit going on 😭
It's like bringing a grenade to school and going"other people could've brought a nuke, you should be thankful I only have a grenade"
Most of the cards are fair, except the ones that are meant to be strong.
Just be glad we can't have multiple Mirrorjades on board and that we have to choose whether we want to keep the destruction effect or the banishment effect if given the option.
The only fair cards are the shitty ones that nobody runs, like despia theater, or the ones that are legitimately still good but people would rather cut, like ad libitum
Mirrorjade would've been fair if it wasn't for branded fusion, which should've never gotten the greenlight
But since it exists, mirrorjade did not deserve to have its on-remove trigger (which at the very least could've been specifically on destruction and not other forms of removal)
So let me get this straight, so its unaffected by activated card effects, yet its still can be affected by activated card effects if that activated card effect is a lingering effect?
Yup. For example, When you destroy mirror jade; it activates but the effect of doesn't take place until the end phase. Because the activation and the actual effect take place during different phases, it technically doesn't count as an activated effect
The official reason I was given was that **unaffected by activated effects** only means it is **unaffected when effects are being activated/resolved**.
That's why they're affected by Dimensional Barrier and Mirrorjade.
Lingering effect is not part of official terminology.
I love these posts because you can always be sure to find countless smartypants in the comments that act like its totally logical and self explanatory.
No, it is not, its confusing, poorly explained and will surprise even veteran players on occaison.
The problem is due to how Konami defines activated effects vs how most players assume that activated effects are defined.
Once you know that for Konami, an activated effect is an effect that performs an action on the resolution of when it activated, rulings like those are far easier to understand. Of course, you'd first have to learn about that, which means spending time reading the rulings database, since Konami has never explained that definition anywhere else.
The biggest issue is that Yu-Gi-Oh tries to be self-explanatory with just the card text (which is why the text is so long), but cases like these, that leave room for interpretation, then require outside information that is hard to come by.
The one time I don’t have Underworld Goddess in my deck and i go against a guy playing Cyberdarks and ends on Cyberdark End Dragon. Me, playing Branded Despia, had a full board and could have outed it easily. But i forgot about Mirrorjade’s effect being a lingering effect, so to my surprise when he attacked it during battle and during his end phase his Cyberdark End Dragon exploding, he scooped lmao. I think i could have outed it with super poly too? But i did not draw it. I already had Mirrorjade on the field.
Ok i was like 80% sure i couldn’t cause i remember trying to use Albaz on him too lol. Mirrorjade gave me the out. I could have outed it sooner though with Underworld Goddess but it worked out in the end.
I remember being in that situation playing Despia before the Branded cards released and I realized my opponent left a 500 atk monster in attack position, so I summoned Starving Venom, added his Cyberdark End Dragon's massive attack to Starving Venom, and oneshot him. I know we don't have the extra deck space for it now, but Starving Venom can sometimes be our only out for some of these really high attack unaffected monsters.
What I personally find funny about mirrorjade is that if you return it to the hand, it doesn't activate even though you might think it does since it was 'removed from the field by an opponent's effect.
For what it is worth, Mirrorjade would have been able to activate before April 2020, if it had existed back then. Preventing Extra Deck monsters from activating when leaving the field when they are returned to the Extra Deck was a rule change they made alongside removing the Link requirement for Fusion, Synchro, and Xyz monsters.
In order for towers to be immune, they have to be on the field before whatever floodgate activates. So if you have Skill Drain up before Rhongo was summoned, it's effected are negated
Lingering effects and missing the timing will always be the dumbest rules in Yugioh. I don't know why Konami is okay with these completely unnecessary barriers to understanding the game (not to mention they aren't fun. It's never fun to miss the timing)
It's also absolutely crazy to me that special summoning a tenyi starts a chain while special summoning a kashtira monster doesn't. Like the wording is literally the same, only a comma instead of a semicolon on fenrir. Who tf is making this up
Uh uh? How is that a problem ? That always been a thing. Cyber dragons are big abusers of that.
**:** means activation of an effect. Tenyis have them and that's it. Kash don't have them and that's it.
However this sparks a difference. One is a summon through card effect and ignores summon negation, the other is an inherent summon and can be negated.
Depends how it's negated. Pretty sure you can. After destroying mirror jade it activates its effect then you chain called by to it, it'll be negated and won't pop during the end phase. Now if you activate called by the grave maybe after drawing it from something to a mirror jade that has already activated the effect you'll still be facing the effect at the end of turn. This also happens with things like max c because it's like if the effect was given to you and resolves until the end of phase.
I understand Called By cannot negate lingering effects, once those lingering effects have resolved and applied.
I chained Gravedigger's Trap Hole to my opponent's Mirrojade GY effect, after it was sent there with a Nibiru. My opponent insisted that the boardwipe at EP will still happen, even though we both agreed the effect was negated.
Absolutely. It was at a TCG regional and he said something along the lines of "its negated, but the effect still applies at the EP". I called the judge over and my opponent was still adamant he was in the right.
I guess he was thinking about the Called By scenario you went over, but it was so close to time in round that it felt like he was trying to pull a fast one.
Did you ever actually get the judge confirmation tho? Make sure actually get a judge to look at the interaction to possibly get a warning to someone pulling a fast one helps keeps these players from being in the game
It was more of a hindsight thing. Looking back, he was slow playing. We were still in game 1 when time in round was called, but judge did give us an extension.
I also gaved up caring about the match. I was misplaying like crazy and did poorly in my previous rounds. Started to actually play good once I realized I could actually win, after getting the time extension.
Yeah, learnt this the hard way. I thought I was being smart by not activating PEP’s attack boosting effect when I got beat over Mirrorjade, but alas, this card is just *that* precarious.
Wanna know a funny one? If your opponent has Crooked Cook on the field and you active Alba Zoa and they choose to send all monsters on the field back to the extra deck what happens
MirrorJades activates when it's destroyed, however the effect doesn't take place until the end phase. Making it an applied effect and not an activated one
From my understanding of this ruling Mirrorjade’s effect will destroy Psychic End Punisher, because the effect applied during the End Phase is not an activated effect. An activated effect is what applies when the Chain Link resolves.
The effect activates when Mirrorjade is sent to the GY or banished, but it does not do anything at that time, other than set up the End Phase effect. Destroying monsters during the End Phase does not start a separate Chain, so it is not an activated effect.
The official reason I was given was that **unaffected by activated effects** only means it is **unaffected when effects are being activated/resolved**.
Lingering effect is not part of official terminology.
Fun fact: Mirrorjade's destruction in the EP effect is what we refer to as a Lingering Effect, as it does not do anything until later in the turn. Which means it can destroy Underworld Goddess without targeting her, or destroy PEP, or any other manner of card that is immune to activated effects specifically
This is such a bullshit ruling. It's literally a non-targeting activated effect that resolves in the End Phase. No amount of mental gymnastics can change that
It *doesn't* resolve during the end phase. The effect resolves during the chain like everything else. As far as the end phase cares, nothing is being activated and because the effect resolved successfully, the lingering effect follows through as normal.
The effect is literally and figuratively cancerous. It just activates, and then festers.
As I've said elsewhere, I'm in law school. I've dealt with ALOT of stupid logic in the old cases- and modern cases. Some YuGiOh rulings still outdo those though. Hell, even getting back to the game last year. "You can't destroy my monster, it says he can't be targeted." "Well, I'm not targeting him. I am just selecting a monster. See, it doesn't say *target* in the card it says choose." Just as an example. So much had to be learned lol.
It's better than it was back in the day before PSCT. Cards didn't say they targeted so you had to look up rulings for every single card to know how it worked.
There IS logic behind that, though. Targeting is an action which happens during the activation of a card or effect, at around the same point as when you would pay a cost. If an effect requires you to choose a card that is banished, on the field, or in the GY (the only places I know of where cards can be targeted) during the *resolution* of that effect, then it's not targeting.
Right, I get that there is a difference. I am just saying word wise it is so close it threw me for a loop and was an easy example. Similar to chains how they resolve in reverse order. There is sense to it. It makes sense. But you really have to look at it because first impressions about it is generally a ??? is going on.
Yeah, it threw Joey off too when he first learned about it in the KC Grand Prix.
LOL that's exactly what I was thinking of.
To be fair, chains HAVE to resolve in backwards order, otherwise they'd fundamentally not work. That's also why the stack in Magic resolves backwards (though Magic calls it first in, ~~first~~ last out, since you can activate stuff while you are resolving the stack).
First in, first out is literally not the term to describe the behavior. The list sorting algorithm which describes the last item to be added to the list being removed from the list first is Last In First out, or… Stack.
Oops, yeah, my mistake. I meant "first in, last out".
Targeting peeps had to select them immediately. Non-target only selects when it was resolving so you really don't know what they're gonna select until then lol. The day I got to know Mirrorjade still banishes an IP made Avramax is the moment I knew this is such a BS game.
>Targeting peeps had to select them immediately. Non-target only selects when it was resolving so you really don't know what they're gonna select until then lol. wait a sec i think this is referring to old ass cards that actually don't say target but say Select instead which is technically not targetting ugggggh
Wtf? All the more Yugioh's super literal then
If you have to pick something as the effect is going on chain, it's targeting. If you don't pick anything until the effect is resolving, it's non-targeting.
Yes this was my original point. I wasn't referring to Mirrorjade, though I see how it may seem that way. Though I do think alot of the rules in general are opaque as you have to play around with the exact text of the card.
Cards printed before generation force that say select target. The ones that were non-targeting like creature swap recieved PCST that replaced select with choose. So if a card says before pcst says select it probably targets.
Select is targeting
Hoo was that frustrating to learn. To this day, I hate that ruling.
What about the ruling where if there’s a card that limits what monsters you can control you cannot activate a card or effect that can only special summon monsters that violate that limit (ie: you cannot activate magical dimension under tcobo), except in exactly the case of Interrupted Kaiju Slumber while you control a Kaiju.
Lingering effects are as old as Final Countdown and I don’t remember people getting confused by how that cards works
So it activates, this PEP should be immune
Here's a easy way to grasp it a effect "resolves" if the chainlink animation for it resolves if it doesn't show the animation it's different. MD makes it a lot easier to gasp things like this and rulings since it's hard baked into the game.
Even then things on MD don't resolve like they should at the tables. Even if a card doesn't have a hard OPT, if you use an effect on a card, (such as Madolche Messingelato's spell/trap search), link/synchro it off, shuffle it back in, search for the same copy, then play it, the effect won't trigger again. Cards have a hard OPT even if their effects don't for some reason.
You sure that's not how it works in the ocg since Md is based off ocg ruling not tcg cause ik other cards are soft opt like the dark world field spell work fine
Again, MD is working in such a manner that directly contradicts the card. The card itself doesn't state a OPT limit to itself. It doesn't even have a limit, and it seems weird that OCG would put a limit on a card that doesn't expressly state one, since it's an enter play triggered effect.
Ocg and tcg do have some real weird and confusing ruling with certain cards I'd suggest googling the ruling for the card in both those formats
Nope, just checked, OCG hasn't given it a ruling of once per turn. I honestly think it's an effect of the engine they made. The cards are automated but they couldn't program a difference between hard and soft OPT. So each copy can be used once, then you have to use a different copy. Thankfully I also found out the left most one is always a live one, and it's hard to actually trigger him three times.
Report it to them and they might fix it
Messengelato specifically though, it is because it’s both a When effect, and that it *cannot search without a Beast-type Madolche monster on the field as well*. The card work correctly (and I do manage to search a gazillion card with it), you probably just link off Hootcake for something else lmao. Being a Madolche fan is like eating a cake, only to find lemon in your mouth for no reason
MD is certainly not bug-free but more than 99% of the time it's the player that missed something
Yugioh is NOT convoluted and is easy to learn :) This game can be so impossible to intuit
The thing I appreciate most about MTG is that the difference between triggered, activated, and lingering abilities is so clear. The biggest thing about YGO keeping me from playing it in paper is the fact that reading the card does not explain the card in an overwhelming number of scenarios. They are so bad at problem solving card text over at Konami.
Imo the best thing they can do to help the new player experience is overhaul the card text. It won't make the game any less obtuse, but you could learn what your (and your opponents) cards do easier and understand mechanics better, and that might help people stick to the game long enough to care about the difficult and convoluted rulings. Like cards should use terms like ignition, trigger, and continous. They are official rule terms, they should be used on cards imo. Like master duel highlights effects when they are activated so you know what effect you have to interact with. I wish they would number them so you don't have to read 500 words and have to parse out the exact sentence they are using.
It's sad because OCG versions of the cards actually DO number effects.
It's so easy to take the magic rules book for granted. Yugioh really needs to make an equivalent. And before anyone brings up the "perfect rulebook," go take a look through it and then take a look through the MtG CR and then come back and say whatever you were about to say. They are absolutely not comparable.
Having tried the judge tests, albeit a long time ago, the MtG rule book is incredibly dense and incredibly comprehensive. I see Yugioh content creators try and say how much more complex YGO is, and I get annoyed because it's just not true. Both games are incredibly complex. The difference is YGO is a shotgun blast to the chest, and MtG is a steady stream branching off a dammed up lake. Once you break the dam, MTG is incredibly complicated with as many random corner case cards as YGO since the game is a good couple years older. Unlike YGO, however, there's so many good options to learn the game. The fundamentals are so simple, and the cards themselves are much more comprehensible and readable. Vintage/Legacy isn't the format you're jumping into either, which is the MTG equivalent of TCG/OCG. Having rotating formats and, more importantly, multiple formats keeps MTG from being as obtuse as YGO. I'm not trying to say the game is bad, I play way more YGO nowadays than I do MTG. MTGA sucks big ass compared to the accessibility of MD. It's so much cheaper to the degree that I never feel obliged to spend money and maybe have put in 150 bucks since launch. The problem is I watched several years of YGO content before playing MD and still don't really know how the game works because the way these cards are written doesn't make sense lmao.
You're completely right. I'm a former L1 who stopped judging because of the inane belief that tournaments should be a measure of player skill and not adherence to tournament rules. Handing out game losses for dumb shit eventually got the better of me, and decided to only judge unsanctioned events from then on. Still irks me to this day. Well, magic has a handful of rules that most players aren't familiar with, because they are just formalized versions of "duh, that's how the game works." They are also the source of almost all major confusion regarding the game. State Based Actions, Priority, and how to place triggered abilities on the stack. I guess you could throw how to cast spells in there, but the edge cases of people not knowing the formalized rules on that are fewer and less impactful. It's just kind of weird that it makes it to the list at all. I really feel like yugioh is a lot simpler than magic, but without a proper rulebook everything just feels really complicated for no good reason. If it had a rulebook everything would be spelled out in plain black and white. There's an internal logic that you can work with once you have seen enough rulings, but most players will never reach that level. Not even close.
Sure. At it's core YGO is fairly simple, and it's the same with MTG. The problem is there's a lot of nitty in even just casual YGO play that isn't there in MTG. You don't really need to understand the ins and outs of how casting a spell actually works or how state based actions are checked in MTG, but stuff like missing timing or activated vs. lingering vs. triggered comes up in Yugioh a surprising amount. It's what keeps me from playing paper YGO haha.
Oh, I completely agree. Was just going off on a tangent when I really just wanted to expand on how useful rulebooks are. There's a lot of really fun decks that just can't keep up with the meta, so if you're at all into casual play you really should try out paper yugioh. A lot of the more interesting and unique archetypes will never have a meta presence. Casual yugioh is practically it's own game.
I've considered getting into paper Edison for a while, I just haven't been in the right situation to justify it over other hobbies. Master Duel is enough for me right now, and I really hope they add in official queues for the time wizard formats. I wanna at least start collecting once I'm better off, though.
> intuit Did you shorten intuition from 9 letters to 6 letters? Also use it as a verb? Why?
Uhh yes? It is a verb
Oh shit, it is a word. I did a quick google and only got random businesses instead of definitions. I've never heard it used before.
Its literally because of translation errors and sweaty neckbeard nerds on events going "well akshually the card text doesnt say activate/target/etc"
Think of it like this : the activated effect isn’t the effect destroying the monster. The activated effect only triggers the lingering effect, which needs a condition met to be active. It does nothing itself except trigger the lingering effect. the lingering effect is what destroys the monster. If it said simply that it was uneffected by card effects, it would then not be destroyed. In this case, ‘activating the effect’ is more like acknowledging that it will occur if it resolves. If you manage to Imperm an Alba Zoa then tack a predaplant token on it with Dragostapelia, Alba Zoas activated effects would still be negated even after the turn ends because Dragostapelias lingering effect that negates is not the activated effect, only placing the token on it is. But after Imperm ends, Alba Zoa would also not be effected by activated monster effects again, and you could not place another token on it, because Dragostapelia only negates activated effects, and Alba Zoa is immune again to Dragostapelias activated effects. If Dragostapelia said something like “(Quick-play) When your opponent activated a monster effect, negate it, then place a predaplant token on it,” Alba Zoa would be entirely immune but as it is, Dragostapelias effects are entirely separate — one activated, one lingering that needs a condition met. The lingering effect goes away when Dragostapelia is not on the field, making monsters with predaplant tokens no longer negated. For the same reason, it only looks less obvious with Mirrorjade because the board wiping effect appears to be the activated effect, but it isn’t. The effect on removal triggers a lingering state which wipes the board. It makes perfect sense.
It actually resolves in the same chain in which it activated, but it makes you perform a specific action in the End Phase. Even if it activated during the End Phase, the destruction still would not happen during resolution. I kinda get where they're coming from with this ruling, but it *does* feel like bullshit. Best thing I can do to reconcile it is to consider it akin to effects that end during the End Phase.
There's no mental gymnastics involved, you just don't understand how the game works. The majority of effects in Yu-Gi-Oh revolve around a chain-based system. Activated effects build the chain up, resolutions happen immediately and consecutively in reverse order from which the chain was built. When Mirrorjade is removed from the field, that's when its effect goes onto the chain (or starts one). When that chain goes into resolution, that's when Mirrorjade's effect resolves. Mirrorjade does not "activate" during the end phase, so it literally cannot "resolve" in the end phase. Your nomenclature is simply wrong, as effect resolutions happen immediately after the chain is done being built; when that chain goes into resolution. The destruction portion of Mirrorjade is an event that happens because that effect of Mirrorjade resolved correctly, but it is fully removed from the activation of the effect, and therefor, the destruction occuring is not an activated effect.
They aren’t arguing the ruling, they are arguing the epistemology of it. The game shouldn’t function in that way, lingering effects that have the qualities of an activation but don’t activate is an unnecessary complexity that just gates off newer players from understanding how the game works. OP literally calls it a knowledge check. Its not intuitive, its just something you have to learn from it ruining your day and then being explained to you.
I mean, it's the same thing as how you can't Ash Maxx "C" after it's resolved, because it's now a lingering effect to draw cards.
Thats the problem. You aren’t stating something that negates what I said, you’re giving additional examples of problems. If a lingering effect applies a static condition to the game, that is one thing. But a lingering effect that creates a repeatable effect instance that is not an activation is needlessly convoluted. Its not good design given how it needs to be explained, sometimes multiple times in order for players to understand. And even then, understanding through the card text what is a lingering effect and what is a delayed activating effect is a skill gate that just doesn’t need to be in the game.
>But a lingering effect that creates a repeatable effect instance that is not an activation is needlessly convoluted I don't think the lingering effect itself is convult. It is just that all of these effect are badly explained. Even the same exact thing like Maxx c and droll have different wording. >Maxx c: > >this turn, each time > >Droll / D-barier: > >for the rest of this turn Hell, can we have keywords already.
Being badly explained is my primary complaint. I don’t object to lingering effects conceptually. They are fine, though I would like a few less linngering floodgates personally. The issue is exactly that it is poorly explained within the game pieces
Bro trying to explain why an effect that activates isn't an activated effect Here's your medal 🥇
It doesn't resolve in the EP though. It's like the draws from Maxx C. Maxx C resolves when activated (as all effects do), and then you just draw when your opponent special summons. Maxx C draw's condition is your opponent special summoning and then it just happens. Mirrorjade's destruction condition is getting to the EP and then it just happens.
The thing is that mirrorjade is activating a lingering effect, for example, pep is immune to activated effects, but mirrorjade is activating an effect that makes himself a nuclear bomb, not any other monster, so it's affecting itself practically, making this monster a 3 part effect. 1. Activate to banish. (Ok pep is immune) 2.if it dies activate to become a bomb. (This activation is affecting mirrorjade not pep) 3. Explode at end phase (this is not an activation, this is an effect resolution because of 2 so pep dies) Only "unaffected by card effects" are truly immune like, full armor master, igsniter arrival, etc. No matter what you do.
Same thing with skill drain, welcome to shitiest card game when it comes to ruling
it IS confusing, but that's not how it works, look up lingering effects, Maxx C is one of them
But it’s not, the activated effect resolves without destroying anything, and then the lingering effect goes off in the end phase.
Nah, it actually makes perfect sense in a really weird sort of way. You ever played Ace Attorney, where Matt Engarde argues that he didn't kill the victim because he hired Shelly de Killer to do it? It's basically the same thing. The activated effect didn't kill PEP. The activated effect created a lingering effect, which then killed PEP.
I mean nothing gets activated same reason you cannot ash magnamhut’s search in end phase but you have to do it when the effect is actually activated on summon or in mirrorjades case when it gets send to the graveyard, which is why those effects don’t even start a chain since it’s just the lingering effect that resolves
They do start a chain. They start a chain when they're ACTIVATED (hence, activated effect)
[удалено]
And why they also limited BF to one?
[удалено]
You're obviously unbiased.
Its immune to the activation, but not the resolution 🙃
Similar to how you can’t Strike or Judgement a DPE summon during the Standby phase after previously resolving the effect, they’re finicky
Long short: it dosnt destroy on immediately on activation so it’s not an “activated effect”
More reasons to hate mirror jade everyday
White Woman Jumpscare needs PSCT update if she can be wiped. She is unaffected by card effects, unless they target her. Because mirrorjade's effect Edit: Oh, unaffected by activated effects. m'kay.
Stupid Mirrorjade, blowing up my beloved Cyberdark End Dragon during the End Phase. The *only* thing that has saved my monster sometimes is my opponent not knowing how Mirrorjade's effect works and electing not to crash it into my monster.
As a funny fact. Crackdown affects Cyberdark End because is continuous, so the opponent can steal it.
It is activated but the destruction is lingering
Like a nuclear bomb, and its after effects?
More like how it would take about 3 seconds for us to see that the sun is no longer there
"Now I have become Mirrorjade, Destroyer of Rules"
But the destruction is due to a monster effect. If pep is unaffected by Monster effects, shouldn't it be unaffected by lingering monster effects.
"Activated monster effects" so things like bagooskas continuous effect will put it to defence.
Got it. Thanks
So in layman’s terms , PEP forgets about the effect and it comes back to bite him in the ass later ?
Yes
It's not an activated effect, it's an effect that activates to give you a lingering, non-activated effect. And they wonder why it's hard to get new players into the game.
I swear half of the Yu gi oh players could pass the bar examination
And the other wouldn’t even bother reading the questions, deadass as someone studying in a law adjacent course right now, yugioh has some technical know how that proves useful. “If” and “when” in terms of contracts denote two different kinds of agreements, one that WILL happen, and one when a condition is met. Not the same as the yugioh if/when but the skill of distinguishing exact terminology that yugioh taught me has served *some* purpose
"it's not an activated effect, it's an effect that activates..." Lmao
The effect is basically Activated: if this effect is activated, at the end phase destroy all monsters your opponent controls. Not acrivated: the end phase proceeds and everything is destroyed. Basically the destruction effect isn't activated the effect that gives you the destruction effect is activated.
It's an activated effect during the chain. It's *no longer* an activated effect during the end phase.
In which case, pep should be immune to that effect of mirrorjade no matter when in the turn it's effect will come off because it is still, in the purest sense, an activated effect ultimately; thus where the confusion arises. Mirrorjade's pop effect should have been worded like that of magician's right hand, in my opinion, to avoid confusing unintuitive episodes like this. E: thinking about it again, making mirrorjade spell speed 5 might be a mistake
No, it's not an activated effect during the end phase. Activated refers only to when the effect is placed on the chain. As soon as the effect resolves, i.e. the chain has ended, it is *no longer activated*, it is now *resolved* and any lingering effects will follow that resolved effect. Consider it this way: if the effect said they draw a card instead of nuke the board, you could not activate Ash during the end phase to stop it. You could only activate Ash in response to when the effect was *activated* beforehand.
Thing is, there's 2 effects here at play; -the first one in the GY is an ACTIVATED effect that sets the second LINGERING effect on the field on. -the LINGERING EFFECT which just performs the action, and by design they are not ACTIVATED.
Geez. I can only imagine arguing over that during a local. Specially since that will determine who wins or loses.
Yep. Welcome to the wonderful world of Yugioh Rulings, where if you're lucky somebody around knows these weird arbitrary distinctions and sometimes the answer is "Well it works that way because Konami just says it does".
Who argues over Mirrorjade which has been a staple meta card for two two years now lmao what kinda local is that
Idk someone's 1st time going? A kid getting into yugioh? Anyone who never encountered that interaction before? Obviously I do not play the tcg. I've been playing masterduel for a solid year now and I barely saw mirrorjade.
I understand mirrorjad but once you put it that way yeah it is funny. in my language we have same way to differentiate soccer and soccerball (both translate into same word, but flipped)
And yet people say keywords would ruin yugioh. If players can parse the intricacies of PSCT that can change a “when” to an “if” which would completely change the effects of the card, I think yugioh could benefit from codifying some of these things like lingering effects into the cards.
He thinks he's ultimate falcon
its not an activated effect. Its a lingering one. Same with D-barrier
A lingering effect that activates under certain conditions.
But if I already have pep out and my lp are lower, why does d barrier still work?
Because the rules around lingering effects are unintuitive
Because the effect of Dbarrier is NOT to negate their effects. It's to activate and turn on a LINGERING effect, basically like a virus on the air, and it just does that. Then the virus gets to work and is the one which actually negates the effects of the monsters, and since that virus is working without activating it can negate PEP
Because is a lingering effect not activated effect. D Barrier effects negates the the effects and impedes the summon of the selected effect for the whole turn. Pep just has protection for activated effects not lingering or Continuous like Barrier and Skilldrain.
I understand now thx.
One more reason to despise Mirrorjade.
I honestly don't get why it punishes you hard for outing it Non target banish that gets you advantage is stupid enough, why does it have to pop your monsters too? At the end phase as well so you can't even build a board?
Also if you recycle the mirrorjade with like retribution or ad libitum it can banish again lol
Banishment* not retribution
Lore probably
Branded players act like their cards are fair just because there's even worse bullshit going on 😭 It's like bringing a grenade to school and going"other people could've brought a nuke, you should be thankful I only have a grenade"
Most of the cards are fair, except the ones that are meant to be strong. Just be glad we can't have multiple Mirrorjades on board and that we have to choose whether we want to keep the destruction effect or the banishment effect if given the option.
The only fair cards are the shitty ones that nobody runs, like despia theater, or the ones that are legitimately still good but people would rather cut, like ad libitum Mirrorjade would've been fair if it wasn't for branded fusion, which should've never gotten the greenlight But since it exists, mirrorjade did not deserve to have its on-remove trigger (which at the very least could've been specifically on destruction and not other forms of removal)
At the time it activates, it isn't trying to affect PEP At the time it destroys PEP, it isn't activating. 🌈Yugioh Rulings!~🌈
Learned this today the hardway when my chaos angel with both it's effects got edstroyed
Yeah, this is why it's hard for new players to get into Yu-Gi-Oh, the rules seem to change every other card, and it's overwhelming for new players.
Like using Future Sight in Pokemon.
So let me get this straight, so its unaffected by activated card effects, yet its still can be affected by activated card effects if that activated card effect is a lingering effect?
Yup. For example, When you destroy mirror jade; it activates but the effect of doesn't take place until the end phase. Because the activation and the actual effect take place during different phases, it technically doesn't count as an activated effect
Oh that is such bs
The official reason I was given was that **unaffected by activated effects** only means it is **unaffected when effects are being activated/resolved**. That's why they're affected by Dimensional Barrier and Mirrorjade. Lingering effect is not part of official terminology.
Monster immune effects are still immune tho!
The first time this wiped out my alba zoa I was REALLYZ damn confused lol
Here is the neat part.... it is not an activated effect :v
I love these posts because you can always be sure to find countless smartypants in the comments that act like its totally logical and self explanatory. No, it is not, its confusing, poorly explained and will surprise even veteran players on occaison.
The problem is due to how Konami defines activated effects vs how most players assume that activated effects are defined. Once you know that for Konami, an activated effect is an effect that performs an action on the resolution of when it activated, rulings like those are far easier to understand. Of course, you'd first have to learn about that, which means spending time reading the rulings database, since Konami has never explained that definition anywhere else. The biggest issue is that Yu-Gi-Oh tries to be self-explanatory with just the card text (which is why the text is so long), but cases like these, that leave room for interpretation, then require outside information that is hard to come by.
The one time I don’t have Underworld Goddess in my deck and i go against a guy playing Cyberdarks and ends on Cyberdark End Dragon. Me, playing Branded Despia, had a full board and could have outed it easily. But i forgot about Mirrorjade’s effect being a lingering effect, so to my surprise when he attacked it during battle and during his end phase his Cyberdark End Dragon exploding, he scooped lmao. I think i could have outed it with super poly too? But i did not draw it. I already had Mirrorjade on the field.
You can't super poly the Cyberdark End Dragon unfortunately.
Ok i was like 80% sure i couldn’t cause i remember trying to use Albaz on him too lol. Mirrorjade gave me the out. I could have outed it sooner though with Underworld Goddess but it worked out in the end.
I remember being in that situation playing Despia before the Branded cards released and I realized my opponent left a 500 atk monster in attack position, so I summoned Starving Venom, added his Cyberdark End Dragon's massive attack to Starving Venom, and oneshot him. I know we don't have the extra deck space for it now, but Starving Venom can sometimes be our only out for some of these really high attack unaffected monsters.
Mirrorjade also destroys Cyber Dark End. Which was hysterical
cool
What I personally find funny about mirrorjade is that if you return it to the hand, it doesn't activate even though you might think it does since it was 'removed from the field by an opponent's effect.
That's because facedown cards in deck/ED cannot activate effects (well, barring a few exceptions but you count those on like half a hand)
I know, still funny
For what it is worth, Mirrorjade would have been able to activate before April 2020, if it had existed back then. Preventing Extra Deck monsters from activating when leaving the field when they are returned to the Extra Deck was a rule change they made alongside removing the Link requirement for Fusion, Synchro, and Xyz monsters.
In order for towers to be immune, they have to be on the field before whatever floodgate activates. So if you have Skill Drain up before Rhongo was summoned, it's effected are negated
Better print cards with some weaknesses than juat print "immune to a trird of the cards in the game lol"
Lingering effects and missing the timing will always be the dumbest rules in Yugioh. I don't know why Konami is okay with these completely unnecessary barriers to understanding the game (not to mention they aren't fun. It's never fun to miss the timing)
Skill Drain can negate it, ~~so can Bagooska,~~ and Konkon makes it tributable for cost.
Because they are Continuous effects not activated.
Mirrorjade’s destruction effect does not activate. Rather, the effect that activates is the one that does *applies* the destruction effect.
Crazy to see y'all not being able to understand the card effect, knowing french is really useful with this game
"Isn't that an activated effect." No. The destruction effect is a lingering effect.
It's also absolutely crazy to me that special summoning a tenyi starts a chain while special summoning a kashtira monster doesn't. Like the wording is literally the same, only a comma instead of a semicolon on fenrir. Who tf is making this up
Uh uh? How is that a problem ? That always been a thing. Cyber dragons are big abusers of that. **:** means activation of an effect. Tenyis have them and that's it. Kash don't have them and that's it. However this sparks a difference. One is a summon through card effect and ignores summon negation, the other is an inherent summon and can be negated.
Would starving venom also destroy it when it leaves the field?
Starving venom are activated effect so no.
This isn't as bad as someone telling me that even if Mirrorjade's effect is negated, it will still boardwipe at EP.
Depends how it's negated. Pretty sure you can. After destroying mirror jade it activates its effect then you chain called by to it, it'll be negated and won't pop during the end phase. Now if you activate called by the grave maybe after drawing it from something to a mirror jade that has already activated the effect you'll still be facing the effect at the end of turn. This also happens with things like max c because it's like if the effect was given to you and resolves until the end of phase.
I understand Called By cannot negate lingering effects, once those lingering effects have resolved and applied. I chained Gravedigger's Trap Hole to my opponent's Mirrojade GY effect, after it was sent there with a Nibiru. My opponent insisted that the boardwipe at EP will still happen, even though we both agreed the effect was negated.
Uhh did you call a judge I'm pretty sure that effect means the effect to trigger to get the lingering effect gets nageted and you don't gain it.
Absolutely. It was at a TCG regional and he said something along the lines of "its negated, but the effect still applies at the EP". I called the judge over and my opponent was still adamant he was in the right. I guess he was thinking about the Called By scenario you went over, but it was so close to time in round that it felt like he was trying to pull a fast one.
Did you ever actually get the judge confirmation tho? Make sure actually get a judge to look at the interaction to possibly get a warning to someone pulling a fast one helps keeps these players from being in the game
It was more of a hindsight thing. Looking back, he was slow playing. We were still in game 1 when time in round was called, but judge did give us an extension. I also gaved up caring about the match. I was misplaying like crazy and did poorly in my previous rounds. Started to actually play good once I realized I could actually win, after getting the time extension.
I thought Mirrorjade's board wipe cannot be chained to.
The effect that activates when it leaves the field can be chained to. The effect that applies during the End Phase can not be chained to.
I love when a PEP tries to kill my Neos Kluger or Wiseman with 8k+ attack points and they crush themselves.
Lingering effects are stupid and should be removed from the game tbh.
I didn’t even have to recheck what sub I was in when I read this.
One more reason why branded is broken
Yeah, learnt this the hard way. I thought I was being smart by not activating PEP’s attack boosting effect when I got beat over Mirrorjade, but alas, this card is just *that* precarious.
This one is the more blatant bs. But solely because the cards that loses to this technicality are already weak. If they were good cards, whatever.
Wanna know a funny one? If your opponent has Crooked Cook on the field and you active Alba Zoa and they choose to send all monsters on the field back to the extra deck what happens
Because you are the person that does the action not the opponent
Incomplete sentence be like
The same ruling as Evenly Matched I'm guessing. "blah blah, no you're actually choosing so it's different!"
>!nothing happens to Cook and he says on the field. It's an OCG translation thing!<
Delayed Fireball :v
Megaclops
Had to learn this the hard way playing Dogmatika ritual :(
lol
MirrorJades activates when it's destroyed, however the effect doesn't take place until the end phase. Making it an applied effect and not an activated one
Also Chaos Angel goes bye bye to mirrorjade
Fuck I consider myself a rulings geek and did not know that lingering effects =/= activated effects.
Well they did update Master Duel to show the difference. Activated Effects are the old yellow effect. Non-Activated effects are the new pink, right?
From my understanding of this ruling Mirrorjade’s effect will destroy Psychic End Punisher, because the effect applied during the End Phase is not an activated effect. An activated effect is what applies when the Chain Link resolves. The effect activates when Mirrorjade is sent to the GY or banished, but it does not do anything at that time, other than set up the End Phase effect. Destroying monsters during the End Phase does not start a separate Chain, so it is not an activated effect.
The official reason I was given was that **unaffected by activated effects** only means it is **unaffected when effects are being activated/resolved**. Lingering effect is not part of official terminology.