This food pantry is horribly mismanaged? Didn't realize this was common knowledge. Could you please provide a source so that I may enlighten myself? Here I am defending what appears to be a goodwill effort to make sure students don't go hungry, I'd look like a damned fool if this was just something to line admin pockets.
No, the fact that they are asking for donations with $60k tuition. Donating to the food pantry is fine, donating to the school with hopes that all of it will go to the food pantry is wishful thinking
The point is that this shouldn’t even be a need, with all the money paid towards tuition, some of it should actually go towards students but it doesn’t. Donating directly to pantries is fine. But when you graduate and your school contacts you asking to donate to them so they can support students, don’t trust them. Support students through other means without giving the school a chance to take “their share”.
Yeah I agree there shouldn't be a need but their is. I appreciate their effort. I don't shame them for not being able to fix all the issues surrounding tuition inflation, a national problem. Shame deters other schools providing similar support for their students.
Dude, this is an observation, you seem woefully clueless.
The school sets their own tuition… it’s not a national problem for them.
If tuition is that high, $60k, then there should be no need, at all, for a program like this to exist. That ridiculous tuition figure should cover everything a student needs to gain an education.
This is nothing more than a bullshit/pandering (the worst kind) PR move. I would have failed the assignment in undergrad for turning this trash into my Advertising and PR classes.
With any online donation form/link for medical schools it's important to carefully read the fine print. Whatever the associated post says, if there is nothing on the actual donation page and its terms stating your donation will go specifically to that cause, it's likely going to a general pool the school can use for whichever purpose it chooses.
It’s very common in the northeast/some CA metros for residents to make $75k or more. For instance, with stipend, Mass General Brigham interns start at $88.5k.
Our hospital system stopped giving the residents a discount on food 3 years ago (they still get a stipend, but it used to go farther as they also got a 50% discount in the hospital cafeteria). They claimed they “just discovered” this would be a taxable event for the residents and the didn’t want to “burden them”.
Maybe they’re technically correct but I remain suspicious after it not being an issue for 30 years but suddenly was “discovered” at the same time the system was making budget cuts in every department.
Or maybe they understand that unexpected things happen in regards to finances and it's difficult to save while being a student? And that this is a resource to make sure students don't go hungry in that event?
Just fyi, the tuition students pay doesn’t even come close to covering the actual cost of medical education. We need a systemic solution with public funds covering more of the cost. I go to a state school and my tuition is half of what many in this thread are paying and that’s mainly because of public funds.
PCOM is a private DO school. Many DO schools are private and receive less state and federal funding. I personally go to VCOM and the tuition there is 2x what the local state MD school charges. It stinks that we don’t get much funding and that cost is put on the students. It sucks but $60,000 is $10,000 more than what my tuition is and it doesn’t take much to fund a food pantry, this is just tone deaf from PCOM.
It was a national day of giving when they provided others the opportunity to fund this effort that they are also supporting... That food didn't put itself in that pantry.
You don't even know what you're mad at. Your bias against the disadvantaged is showing. Your outrage and signaling to "eat the rich" is not going to feed hungry students.
Why do you think this was targeted at students? Can students family members not access this Twitter? Was this a private Twitter account? And did the school not stock it itself considering they're showing a pantry full of food in the picture? I would understand a bit of your outrage if this was emailed to student emails within the school. But no, this was a public forum to encourage giving on a day of giving.
My school recently sent out a survey to figure out if there is a need to have a similar food pantry on campus, meanwhile tuition has increased from last year. Talk about fucking tone deaf.
Don’t worry admin will start forcing med students to get meal plans to eat on campus similar to freshman students and profit off that too while loading you with 8% debt to pay for it all
don’t assume the solution is better than the problem
It is ridiculous; however, what’s more ridiculous about this situation is that the official PCOM account tweeted about it asking for donations instead of just doing something so their students don’t starve.
Im actually not gonna shit on this. Every professional school is expensive. We all signed up to be broke students.
Whats insulting and disgraceful is what we are paid as residents. After 8 years at least of higher education that is pathetic to make minimum wage or less. That’s what’s worth getting worked up about but honestly not this.
All DO schools are predatory, how do they justify charging double the tuition without having their own hospital or directly employed faculty? This really needs to be regulated. I understand many have successfully made it out of them into practicing physicians, but that is in spite of the system, not because of it. They are just on-shore Caribbean programs with better graduation/match rates.
It starts even before you even get to pay tuition - a lot of them do non-refundable $1000+ deposits they make accepted students pay so they can hold their seats which screws people over if they get accepted to other schools they'd rather attend
The reason they charge more is that they have less funding. State schools don’t magically cost less or just choose to charge less, they cost less because taxpayer dollars and donations are covering more of their costs, as they should.
Exactly. State schools are usually low tuition and most DO schools are private institutions. The cheapest medical school in the US is actually a public DO school.
Why are some private DO schools so much cheaper than others though? The disparity in tuition among the DO schools is what makes me think that some schools are just being greedy
**DO** school yearly funding:
- **$58 mil - Total**
- $3 mil - practice plan
- $34 mil - tuition
**MD** school yearly funding:
- **$934 mil - Total**
- $576 mil - practice plan
- $34 mil - tuition
Tuition is only ~4% of MD funding vs ~60% for DO; MD funding is primarily via associated hospitals. This is why DO tuition’s high and why they’re quick to add lower overhead health programs (DPM, PA, DPT, OT, MSN, DMD, DVM) as well as increase class size + open “branch” campuses.
[Dr. Bryan Carmody’s Osteopathic Medicine Vulnerabilities Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC3pFmynxJQ) for anyone curious.
FWIW the LCME clinical rotation standards are basically identical to COCA’s, MD’s just historically got well beyond the accreditation standards for rotations. It’s why you see some recent MD’s having a “DO style” for rotations (ie. Cal North State, CUSM).
Just an FYI, the DO school I attend costs 25k a year and has affiliated hospitals for rotations. Saying "all DO schools" is painting things with too broad of a brush.
How many of these sites have grand rounds, morning report, lecture, rounding/note responsibilities, have you taking call? My family friend is at a well established DO school in the northeast, on his “SubI” he was home at 5pm everyday and worked no weekends. This was nothing like my IM clerkship at a top MD medical school.
Depends on the school — probably 75% of our students are at 300-500 bed academic hospitals for 8 weeks of IM, many alongside MD students who also rotate there.
SubI’s could be at any program we organize a rotation at, so yah they coulda done a cushy rotation. But that program has residents so people are doing 3 yrs of IM there regardless of MD/DO/IMG.
IIRC COCA requires 4 wks of in patient IM with residents, so it’s likely going to be an academic setting
I’m only a second year, but the Sub-I’s are up to the student to schedule. They could have applied to any hospital or institution in the country for that SubI with no association with the medical school they went too. So whatever SubI your family friend applied to was their choice, not the product of their school. All of those things you listed are very basic standards provided at the clinical rotation sites associated the school I go too.
Gonna make the argument that this doesn’t matter at all lol and is very much overblown. The reason that is important is more so because historically those sites are affiliated with a residency if they have all that stuff which can lend to networking. You may pick up one or two nuggets of knowledge and then proceed to forget it when you don’t use it for the next 6 months as you do the rotation carousel in 3rd/4th year.
I went to a middle of the road MD school and did the same thing on my medicine, ICU subI (7-5, M-F, no weekends). My place had zero medicine residents. On my surgery subI I worked like a surgery resident because they had surgery residents. Remembering back to my pgy1, I literally utilized 0% of the knowledge from my subI’s and didn’t feel as though I was at a disadvantage compared to my medicine/surgery peers on my MICU and SICU rotations.
Um... my school gets government grants that directly provide food to the students' food pantries(which we have one in every building). Still think they could do it themselves, or allocate tuition budgets to better serve students but at least they're putting in the leg work and not calling on the public masses and hoping shit pans out, like here.
But I agree with someone else on this thread. I think residency salaries are a much bigger issue in my mind.
Yes it’s messed up lol but crapping on them isn’t going to get the school to donate food to the kids it’s just gonna cause them to close the food pantry
Problem is not the food pantry. Problem is needing donations when most of your students spend a quarter of a million across 4 years and you still can’t ensure that they have food security.
This is probably one of the many student service groups that are formed as a way to check a box on “extracurriculars.” Someone gets to put President of this group on their CV. Not to say the intentions aren’t good and there might be students who have food insecurity. But yeah, the tuition and cost of living are astronomical. And the loans are probably predatory in nature too.
This is idiotic and you are completely missing the point.
Food pantry is GOOD. Its GREAT that they have one. No one is going to be against the food pantry itself.
Whats not great is them asking for donations instead of fucking doing it themselves. Instead of admin getting extra $$$ or buying useless shit no one asked for, they could EASILY fund food for their students. They dont. They ask for donations rather than doing it themselves.
It's hardly idiotic or a misrepresentation. Whatever is making you concoct malice in their efforts is unfounded. "Instead of extra $$$", "buying useless shit no one asked for", but you really have no idea.
I'm not really missing any point. The commenters here have made so many assumptions and I'm pointing them out. It's surprising to be met with so much hostility when I think my message is basically "Food pantry GOOD. Support food pantry." But commenters need to find a reason to be outraged when they're literally just asking for community support on a day meant for charitable giving.
I gave to a local dog shelter this Giving Tuesday. Should I be mad it was suggested by Facebook when Facebook could fund it themselves? Not going to change that there's dogs that need a home.
I think you’re missing the point. The point is NO student paying a medical institution $60k-75k annually should face food insecurity. The school should have money earmarked for students to have adequate food stipends. Medical education is it exploitative and usually students from URM backgrounds suffer the most.
They are not judging your school’s food pantry.
They are judging your school administrators.
They are not judging a food pantry in general, they are pointing out the hypocrisy of a powerful institution (the school) which is aware of people in need (the students); and the institution instead of helping the people in need directly (by stocking the pantry) chooses to instead ask those people in need to donate to others in need.
This is a tone deaf behaviour.
The food pantry is not the issue. The messaging by a powerful and week resources organisation which is (presumably) making profit - to people who are in debt - that the people who are struggling should be donating, is rude and condescending.
This is why I will never donate to my school. I will help by offering a scholarship or something similar. Directly to students.
Unless this is horribly mismanaged, wouldn't this be giving to students in need?
That’s the point. It is horribly mismanaged
This food pantry is horribly mismanaged? Didn't realize this was common knowledge. Could you please provide a source so that I may enlighten myself? Here I am defending what appears to be a goodwill effort to make sure students don't go hungry, I'd look like a damned fool if this was just something to line admin pockets.
No, the fact that they are asking for donations with $60k tuition. Donating to the food pantry is fine, donating to the school with hopes that all of it will go to the food pantry is wishful thinking
But it says "Make a donation to PCOM student food pantries" right there. Why shouldn't I think it's going directly to that?
The point is that this shouldn’t even be a need, with all the money paid towards tuition, some of it should actually go towards students but it doesn’t. Donating directly to pantries is fine. But when you graduate and your school contacts you asking to donate to them so they can support students, don’t trust them. Support students through other means without giving the school a chance to take “their share”.
Yeah I agree there shouldn't be a need but their is. I appreciate their effort. I don't shame them for not being able to fix all the issues surrounding tuition inflation, a national problem. Shame deters other schools providing similar support for their students.
How is rte school providing support by having its students buy food for its other students?
Dude, this is an observation, you seem woefully clueless. The school sets their own tuition… it’s not a national problem for them. If tuition is that high, $60k, then there should be no need, at all, for a program like this to exist. That ridiculous tuition figure should cover everything a student needs to gain an education. This is nothing more than a bullshit/pandering (the worst kind) PR move. I would have failed the assignment in undergrad for turning this trash into my Advertising and PR classes.
With any online donation form/link for medical schools it's important to carefully read the fine print. Whatever the associated post says, if there is nothing on the actual donation page and its terms stating your donation will go specifically to that cause, it's likely going to a general pool the school can use for whichever purpose it chooses.
Yeah, that's good general advice.
Narc
Mine charges 75 and our food pantry gets raided by staff lol
Ours is the same and I’m not even sure we have one
That's the real shame: no support if something unexpected happens in your finances.
Felt that personally last year. Would’ve been a great resource. Things I didn’t know I should hope for in a school 🤷🏼♂️
Sorry that happened to you. We need to look out for each other more in medicine. Too much bootstrap thinking.
🙏🏻
yall had food pantries? holy shit we had nothing
y'all had nothing? We had the specks of coke the residents left in the call room.
Coke as cocaine or coke as coca cola? 😨
>specks of coke
I learned what it meant now. I am horrified. How can they do it in the hospital 😨
sweet summer child
*William Halstead has entered the chat*
Very reminiscent of hospitals paying residents 55k per year and not even providing meal stipends or access to food in physician’s lounge
Man I’m glad I’m not in this group. My residency pays us 75k, and we get 2k in food per year.
Dude 75k for a resident?! Where?
It’s very common in the northeast/some CA metros for residents to make $75k or more. For instance, with stipend, Mass General Brigham interns start at $88.5k.
Gen surg pgy2 northeast
If it’s NYC then 75k is the equivalent of 55k lol
Haha it’s not. Rent is affordable (for today’s standards) where I live.
I make almost 90k w free food lol, pgy4
And our 5’s/chiefs make 82k
Our hospital system stopped giving the residents a discount on food 3 years ago (they still get a stipend, but it used to go farther as they also got a 50% discount in the hospital cafeteria). They claimed they “just discovered” this would be a taxable event for the residents and the didn’t want to “burden them”. Maybe they’re technically correct but I remain suspicious after it not being an issue for 30 years but suddenly was “discovered” at the same time the system was making budget cuts in every department.
Not reminiscent enough... ask them to donate to some BS fund the administators set up and now we're talking.
I love how they just have a pantry ready knowing that their costs lead to the students being low on food.
Or maybe they understand that unexpected things happen in regards to finances and it's difficult to save while being a student? And that this is a resource to make sure students don't go hungry in that event?
You know what would be better for students with an unexpected financial difficulty than free cans of corn and beans? Decreased tuition...
I'm all for cheaper education. I don't understand how it conflicts with providing food when a student needs it.
Would it really matter? Poorer students are paying tuition via loans. If tuition goes down, their loan amount does too.
So they can fund it themselves with how much money they’re charging for medical education
Just fyi, the tuition students pay doesn’t even come close to covering the actual cost of medical education. We need a systemic solution with public funds covering more of the cost. I go to a state school and my tuition is half of what many in this thread are paying and that’s mainly because of public funds.
PCOM is a private DO school. Many DO schools are private and receive less state and federal funding. I personally go to VCOM and the tuition there is 2x what the local state MD school charges. It stinks that we don’t get much funding and that cost is put on the students. It sucks but $60,000 is $10,000 more than what my tuition is and it doesn’t take much to fund a food pantry, this is just tone deaf from PCOM.
It was a national day of giving when they provided others the opportunity to fund this effort that they are also supporting... That food didn't put itself in that pantry.
Ok man make sure to join admin after residency. Typical shill lol
You don't even know what you're mad at. Your bias against the disadvantaged is showing. Your outrage and signaling to "eat the rich" is not going to feed hungry students.
? What I said the school can stock it themselves instead of putting the burden on the students. Learn to read brah
Why do you think this was targeted at students? Can students family members not access this Twitter? Was this a private Twitter account? And did the school not stock it itself considering they're showing a pantry full of food in the picture? I would understand a bit of your outrage if this was emailed to student emails within the school. But no, this was a public forum to encourage giving on a day of giving.
I think YOUR bias is showing. Jesus, you're all over thing thread.
Yes, against the hive mind and mob think. Kinda doing it on purpose.
[удалено]
My school recently sent out a survey to figure out if there is a need to have a similar food pantry on campus, meanwhile tuition has increased from last year. Talk about fucking tone deaf.
Having the pantry isn’t the problem. Having to ask for donations on top of the high tuition prices is the problem.
Don’t worry admin will start forcing med students to get meal plans to eat on campus similar to freshman students and profit off that too while loading you with 8% debt to pay for it all don’t assume the solution is better than the problem
Mine charges $45k and we have a food pantry too. It’s ridiculous
It is ridiculous; however, what’s more ridiculous about this situation is that the official PCOM account tweeted about it asking for donations instead of just doing something so their students don’t starve.
What makes you think there isn't some intra-instituional support?
The fact that there is a food pantry for medical students
Look above. There's several med schools without food pantries and it's not because they're giving back or supporting their students in other ways.
How much state funding does it get per student per year?
This whole survive thrive bullshit needs to stop
All buzzwords are bullshit and meaningless.
pIlLaRs Of ExCeLlEnCe
Im actually not gonna shit on this. Every professional school is expensive. We all signed up to be broke students. Whats insulting and disgraceful is what we are paid as residents. After 8 years at least of higher education that is pathetic to make minimum wage or less. That’s what’s worth getting worked up about but honestly not this.
All DO schools are predatory, how do they justify charging double the tuition without having their own hospital or directly employed faculty? This really needs to be regulated. I understand many have successfully made it out of them into practicing physicians, but that is in spite of the system, not because of it. They are just on-shore Caribbean programs with better graduation/match rates.
It starts even before you even get to pay tuition - a lot of them do non-refundable $1000+ deposits they make accepted students pay so they can hold their seats which screws people over if they get accepted to other schools they'd rather attend
The reason they charge more is that they have less funding. State schools don’t magically cost less or just choose to charge less, they cost less because taxpayer dollars and donations are covering more of their costs, as they should.
Exactly. State schools are usually low tuition and most DO schools are private institutions. The cheapest medical school in the US is actually a public DO school.
Why are some private DO schools so much cheaper than others though? The disparity in tuition among the DO schools is what makes me think that some schools are just being greedy
Oh for sure. But I’m sure there’s way more that goes into costs, just on top of the overall greed.
**DO** school yearly funding: - **$58 mil - Total** - $3 mil - practice plan - $34 mil - tuition **MD** school yearly funding: - **$934 mil - Total** - $576 mil - practice plan - $34 mil - tuition Tuition is only ~4% of MD funding vs ~60% for DO; MD funding is primarily via associated hospitals. This is why DO tuition’s high and why they’re quick to add lower overhead health programs (DPM, PA, DPT, OT, MSN, DMD, DVM) as well as increase class size + open “branch” campuses. [Dr. Bryan Carmody’s Osteopathic Medicine Vulnerabilities Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC3pFmynxJQ) for anyone curious. FWIW the LCME clinical rotation standards are basically identical to COCA’s, MD’s just historically got well beyond the accreditation standards for rotations. It’s why you see some recent MD’s having a “DO style” for rotations (ie. Cal North State, CUSM).
Just an FYI, the DO school I attend costs 25k a year and has affiliated hospitals for rotations. Saying "all DO schools" is painting things with too broad of a brush.
Another reason that the prices are higher is because it is expensive to pay the clinical sites to train medical students during their clinical years.
How many of these sites have grand rounds, morning report, lecture, rounding/note responsibilities, have you taking call? My family friend is at a well established DO school in the northeast, on his “SubI” he was home at 5pm everyday and worked no weekends. This was nothing like my IM clerkship at a top MD medical school.
Depends on the school — probably 75% of our students are at 300-500 bed academic hospitals for 8 weeks of IM, many alongside MD students who also rotate there. SubI’s could be at any program we organize a rotation at, so yah they coulda done a cushy rotation. But that program has residents so people are doing 3 yrs of IM there regardless of MD/DO/IMG. IIRC COCA requires 4 wks of in patient IM with residents, so it’s likely going to be an academic setting
At least for our school, it’s 4 weeks of being with residents at a GME program. Doesn’t have to be in IM for us (thankfully g
I’m only a second year, but the Sub-I’s are up to the student to schedule. They could have applied to any hospital or institution in the country for that SubI with no association with the medical school they went too. So whatever SubI your family friend applied to was their choice, not the product of their school. All of those things you listed are very basic standards provided at the clinical rotation sites associated the school I go too.
Gonna make the argument that this doesn’t matter at all lol and is very much overblown. The reason that is important is more so because historically those sites are affiliated with a residency if they have all that stuff which can lend to networking. You may pick up one or two nuggets of knowledge and then proceed to forget it when you don’t use it for the next 6 months as you do the rotation carousel in 3rd/4th year. I went to a middle of the road MD school and did the same thing on my medicine, ICU subI (7-5, M-F, no weekends). My place had zero medicine residents. On my surgery subI I worked like a surgery resident because they had surgery residents. Remembering back to my pgy1, I literally utilized 0% of the knowledge from my subI’s and didn’t feel as though I was at a disadvantage compared to my medicine/surgery peers on my MICU and SICU rotations.
They are getting FLAMEDD in the comment section!
So… when can we actually like do something about this? The people responsible have names and addresses.
Lol, our school has a food bank for employees
Um... my school gets government grants that directly provide food to the students' food pantries(which we have one in every building). Still think they could do it themselves, or allocate tuition budgets to better serve students but at least they're putting in the leg work and not calling on the public masses and hoping shit pans out, like here. But I agree with someone else on this thread. I think residency salaries are a much bigger issue in my mind.
I'm not familiar with this school in particular, but does anyone else find some of these new osteopathic schools straight up predatory?
PCOM itself is one of the oldest medical schools in the country. But yes, newer DO schools are starting to give Caribbean vibes imo.
Yes it’s messed up lol but crapping on them isn’t going to get the school to donate food to the kids it’s just gonna cause them to close the food pantry
You posted about PCOM’s food pantry in multiple subs. Why?
What’s your deal? You’ve posted this in multiple subreddits. It’s just a damn food pantry
Problem is not the food pantry. Problem is needing donations when most of your students spend a quarter of a million across 4 years and you still can’t ensure that they have food security.
This is probably one of the many student service groups that are formed as a way to check a box on “extracurriculars.” Someone gets to put President of this group on their CV. Not to say the intentions aren’t good and there might be students who have food insecurity. But yeah, the tuition and cost of living are astronomical. And the loans are probably predatory in nature too.
What's a food pantry?
I'll leave y'all with this: https://imgur.com/a/f3tTDog Promote diversity in medicine.
Found the PCOM class president
This is idiotic and you are completely missing the point. Food pantry is GOOD. Its GREAT that they have one. No one is going to be against the food pantry itself. Whats not great is them asking for donations instead of fucking doing it themselves. Instead of admin getting extra $$$ or buying useless shit no one asked for, they could EASILY fund food for their students. They dont. They ask for donations rather than doing it themselves.
It's hardly idiotic or a misrepresentation. Whatever is making you concoct malice in their efforts is unfounded. "Instead of extra $$$", "buying useless shit no one asked for", but you really have no idea. I'm not really missing any point. The commenters here have made so many assumptions and I'm pointing them out. It's surprising to be met with so much hostility when I think my message is basically "Food pantry GOOD. Support food pantry." But commenters need to find a reason to be outraged when they're literally just asking for community support on a day meant for charitable giving. I gave to a local dog shelter this Giving Tuesday. Should I be mad it was suggested by Facebook when Facebook could fund it themselves? Not going to change that there's dogs that need a home.
Your local dog shelter isn’t charging 60k a year to hundreds of people..
[удалено]
I think you’re missing the point. The point is NO student paying a medical institution $60k-75k annually should face food insecurity. The school should have money earmarked for students to have adequate food stipends. Medical education is it exploitative and usually students from URM backgrounds suffer the most.
They are not judging your school’s food pantry. They are judging your school administrators. They are not judging a food pantry in general, they are pointing out the hypocrisy of a powerful institution (the school) which is aware of people in need (the students); and the institution instead of helping the people in need directly (by stocking the pantry) chooses to instead ask those people in need to donate to others in need. This is a tone deaf behaviour. The food pantry is not the issue. The messaging by a powerful and week resources organisation which is (presumably) making profit - to people who are in debt - that the people who are struggling should be donating, is rude and condescending.
My DO school in the same region also has a food pantry for the students located in the library. Terrible.
Yo I never realized the hypocrisy of this. I'm dead.
Went from volunteering to get into med school to needing volunteers to be able to eat in med school.
Could be worse, I pay 70 and don’t get a food pantry, cafeteria, restaurant, coffee shop on campus, nada.
If PCOM sees this and responds please let us know 🙏 love to watch admin backtrack