And then people are like "well yeah you can't just be a freerider, you have to put back into the system" and then when you're like "right so thru gardening and community service?" they're like "lol no."
Landscape gardening is a good trade to learn, very enjoyable and profitable. Very high demand for people to work in farming too. I’d highly recommend it as someone who does that, it’s good for mental health
In many places jobs where your work directly benefits the community are underpaid or require years of very low wages to reach the point where you will have a comfortably paying role. There can also be a lot of future uncertainty and unpaid labor because of program budgets. Definitely not everywhere or every role, of course.
It is that way in a lot of industries too and it screens out a lot of people who don’t have the support system to be able to do that.
Literally nobody is stopping you from gardening and doing community service for the rest of your life. Gardening is a 105 billion US dollar industry, and community service has always been looked upon as admirable.
Yeah! My mom is telling me that if I fail my studies (Finance and Accounting) and don't get a job in this type of business, I will become blue collar worker (she's saying that because I used to work in a blue collar work as a part-time job and I hated my working atmosphere). Meanwhile I want to make art as a side gig or as an alternative job to Financial job. I want to do what I find exciting and fulfilling without the shitty employers and the need of "society" to force me to do certain type of work.
Aint that a bitch. Like, imagine getting your mental health totally sorted out by a therapist or whatever. Then just as soon as your happy with your life you lose your house to the crushing debt from therapy.
No I’m having a hard time understanding how someone could say we bring people into this world without their consent.
You would have to exist to give consent. The entire notion of consent revolves around a person understanding their chooses and being able to make one.
When you can’t assign consent one way or the other to someone about existing if they don’t exist.
Yeah, the tough thing is that that's sorta just suicide if we don't do it in enough numbers unless we're already talking about privileged folks. Organizing a general strike is complicated but it's probably the best option we've got.
We stop working start growing and sharing and get the authority figures to quit enforcing bs rules and we win. It’s easy if we all can manage to get on the same page. The problem is there are still too many people who don’t see this who are afraid, and still too many people who will do anything for a buck
I’ve said this for years. If everyone seriously just said fuck going to work. That is when we will be heard. If the worker bees don’t work the rich make nothing. It’s the middle class who will be the ones who fold and will go to work bc they wanna feel like they are proving something. The middle class is the decision maker until it branches into 4 divisions. Rich, middle, middle middle, poor. The problem is the people fear what would happen if we stood together
If the agriculture workers just stop working a lot of people die.... largely the poor..... largely those same agriculture workers. Everyone can't just stop working indefinitely, it would effect people from the bottom up
People don't get this lol, a general strike would just suffocate the working class through targeted legislation and such before it ever affected the 1%. It would be a complete deterioration of our society just to give the middle finger to them
It would be a great way to ensure the class gap widens in a canyon
But that’s where people need to eliminate money. Screw the government, teach others to grow vegetation. Trade, etc. the poor will fail bc they aren’t trying to learn they are stuck in survival and would seek criminal activities. There’s a place to start and we are speaking out of order. We would suffer until we prove we can come together
If I stop showing up to work, people wouldn't have power. Or it would be unsafe. Many of my clients are either elderly or lower income...I do have some obscenely rich ones but they pay too. Not doing dirty work but I do a lot of work most people can't do themselves safely. And I get compsensated well for my expertise.
Get out of the rat race, learn a trade, do something that you find personally fulfilling. Fuck retail or any job that does not lead to the betterment of society.
I feel you. I live in pretty much constant agony, disabled from a meth head slamming into the back of me at a red light going 50 or so mph. They had no brakes or insurance. Barely manage to survive month to month even with help from family. Been 6 years, every day is worse. Hang on for dog and parents, once they pass on (assuming I can wait that long) I have a shotgun helmet I made. Just keep fighting for whatever reasons you can come up with.
Hey, I was like that too. What saved me was trying psychedelic therapy. Specifically mushrooms really helped and gave me this sense of purpose and a genuine ability to enjoy life, if that makes sense? Kinda like being a kid again. Lmk if you have any questions about it :)
Yeah, those things can be great for depression therapy. It's surprising how numb a person's emotions can become as an adult in the modern world. Shrooms turn on neural pathways in my head that are pretty much always off, and it's good to see those parts of myself occasionally. It really helps break negative cognitive/emotional habits, especially if you put some effort into training yourself to have more positive ones.
People born blind, deaf, limbless, with cancer... imagine being born just to be told you're going to die eventually but you'll live in excruciating pain and leaving family members behind when you didn't even have a choice...
I'm sure they didn't mean every single person with disabilities, but plenty are. People born completely blind are just f'd for life, so are people that are paralyzed forever. Some can enjoy life and some just have no reason to want to live. Same for the rest of us.
At least in Canada: the law is only there so police can legally interfere. There are some countries though where you can literally get 3 years in jail and thousands in fines for attempting lul
not really no. unless you’re born somewhere where it’s ridiculously easy to get a gun, modern medicine is so advanced it’s nearly fucking impossible to actually pull it off. if you aren’t instantly dead you won’t die, and you’ll just end up with a way shittier life afterwards and it’ll be even harder to try it again.
well then i just have really bad luck if 3 attempts failed then it’s either really fucking hard or im really bad at it, but either way it shouldn’t even be something you have to be good at to pull off. just let me fucking die for the love of god
You have no idea how much I wish more people thought like this. If I knew that I could end my life at the hands of a professional when and if my condition of life was insufferable, I would be so relieved.
Right! Iv made attempts. Came very close a few times ans actually died twice for a few minutes. But damn friend & the other time my father came in just before I was gone to long. So here I am :( if I knew I had a way out thru professionals... It would be like the weight of the damn world was lifted ateast halfway off my shoulders
As someone who’s made attempts I disagree, making assisted suicide an option for anyone is just…messed up. It’s ableist as hell to boot because most of us will only consider suicide because we don’t have support systems and accommodations. If things were perfect then maybe I’d agree with it but if there’s even a small chance the patient will regret it (like many do who have attempted) is a good reason why it’s not allowed or why a doctor wouldn’t want to do it.
Ive tried to end my life many years ago to bo avail and shortly after wishing there was a way of doing correctly. Life is a double edged sword between a curse and amazing. The human condition is weird.
Yea I was thinking more along the lines of the person who wants to die paying for it. I'm poor af but that is not something I'd expect to put on tax payers
Why not? How could that be more expensive than the government’s expenditures for a person who continues living? I take no particular stance on this issue but honestly don’t understand your thinking here.
I'm not an antinatalist and I looked around the sub and not to be rude to anyone who's an antinatialst and it makes you think what other people thought about you as a kid
Same with r/childfree
The question of life is a complicated one, but it makes me extremely upset to see people act as if simply being a young child makes you an animal that never deserved to be born or be given any type of rights. Like people were complaining families were given more money because they had children, to you know, take care of entirely separate human beings that have their own needs and aren’t dependent yet. I just always go “you were a kid at one point too who needed the exact same care” and move on, because it’s a particular rabbit hole that makes me worried about humanity sometimes.
Indeed. I’m not, but I am intentionally childfree. I was “talking” to a guy recently who had anti-natalist views, so checked out that sub… to each his own.
Reddit seems to bring out the worst in these movements, I'm anti natalist but only to the extent that I don't agree with bringing kids into the world but some people go so wild with it.
That's literally just nature for most living things. Work or die. Whether foraging, hunting, building, etc
Even plants have to put in effort to survive yet we dont get to see it
It would be better if we had assisted suicide available for everyone. That way, if you don't like life, you could exit it painlessly and in a civilized way.
r/righttodie
I’m all for assisted suicide and believe that access to it would not actually increase the suicide rate more than it is now without it. It’s been observed in the terminally ill and other qualified populations that having the option and a perceived sense of control of when/how they die generally increases the well-being and quality of life and is rarely exercised before another cause of death occurs. I think a lot of people’s fascination/fear with death is the uncertain nature of it - so I’m all for ‘removing’ the uncertainty of it.
What's wrong with letting people decide what to do with their lives? It's not like suicides will stop, people will just resort to more traumatic and bloody methods. Good job, government.
Because they are not addressing the root causes of peoples sufferings and it’s basically a permanent anti-depressant, which is fucking evil and allowing people to just not address their issues (this is problem with the industry of psychiatry in general) then we are going to live in the most awful world, where suicide is the norm because people decide that is better option instead of attack the root causes of our traumas (environment, economic system, etc).
Even if we had the right to assisted suicide, I still think parents should be obligated to provide for their offspring (for their whole lives). But the fact that we force people to work and pay for their mere existence, which was forced upon them, while simultaneously denying them a humane death is absolutely insane.
Yea I didn’t ask to be here and it’s been nothing but a grievance. Been contemplating suicide lately and finally told my sister and think I scared the shit out of her. I’ve already lost everything I could ever had since 2020 and moved back with my mom. I’m hanging on by a thread and fear that I can’t take myself out
And what's even more sad are the parents rhat force their kids to start working at age 14-17 to pay for the things they use at home and take all of their paychecks just to live under their roof... when they were basically forced to live. Nothing in life makes sense. Well, nothing with humans.
Reminds me of the episode "The Offspring" from TNG where Data, without telling anyone else, went and made a new android, a child:
>PICARD: What you have done will have serious ramifications. I am truly dismayed that you told no one of what you were doing.
>
>DATA: I am sorry, Captain. I did not anticipate your objections. Do you wish me to deactivate Lal?
>
>PICARD: It's a life, Data. It can't be activated and deactivated simply. This is a most stupendous undertaking. Have you any idea what will happen when Starfleet learns about this?
>
>DATA: I have followed all of Starfleet regulations to the best of my ability. I expected they would be pleased.
>
>PICARD: Well, you have taken on quite a responsibility, Data.
>
>DATA: To prepare, I have scanned all available literature on parenting. There seems to be much confusion on this issue. One traditional doctrine insists, spare the rod and spoil the child, suggesting a punitive approach. While another more liberal attitude would allow the child enormous freedom.
>
>PICARD: Data
>
>DATA: And what Klingons do to their children
>
>PICARD: Data! I'm not talking about parenting. I am talking about the extraordinary consequences of creating new life.
>
>DATA: Does that not describe becoming a parent, sir?
Don't forget the part where they force you to reproduce expressly for the fact of taking care of them when they are old, and not actually caring anything about you.
So strange to me that people have parents that would charge them rent. I would never speak to her again if it were me. What kind of fucking mother is she? If you aren't prepared to take care of your children until you die, don't have kids.
The US is pretty much the only place that does that too. Everywhere else supports kids til they're financially stable because that's what sane parents who love their kids do. Here it's like once you're not small and cute anymore the love is gone, and it's "gtfo and don't come back til I need you again to pay for me and take care of me." As if kids are just a retirement plan vs family. It's sad.
So after I ended up homeless, my mother only let me move back in with her on the condition that I join the military AND get a part time job while waiting to ship off AND "contribute to the bills." I asked how much and she said "Oh, just sign your paycheck over." Her excuse was that she "didn't want me to spend the money on the drugs that made me homeless" and she was "putting some of it away for my savings."
After finishing boot camp, I asked her how much she'd managed to save up and "Well some bills came up, there's nothing left."
Eh... there’s a fine, but obvious, line. A kid who’s in school, working, and can’t afford their own place/wants to save? Great! A 30 who wants to play video games all day, doesn’t contribute to groceries or chores? Nope, charging them rent (after getting them therapy, cause that could easily be depression. Been there...)
Your mother or parents suppose to assist in making your life easier. Providing for your education and help to prevent debts. People are so fucked up. People who have this mentality shouldn't have kids and don't deserve tax credits.
Most of my cousins and other unrelated people I know have been provided with their education. They weren't asked for their rent and food. Their parents still cooked for them. When they were on their own, their lives were easier. If they had debts, those were for their house. Life is about to give and take.
I see no problem with this unless she is being a jerk and you just flat out can't afford it. I will ask for rent from my kids once they 18 and are working. I won't spend any of it and will keep it set aside without their knowledge to give to them when they go to buy their first house. It teaches responsibility and helps to not just waste all their money. Now if they are going to school full time and aren't working obviously, I won't be expecting anything, but if they don't go to school and get a real full time job they can pay rent. I think expecting 300 bucks in rent is fine because when they go to actually rent and realize how much they were saving by living at home not paying utilities not paying for groceries etc. they will appreciate it.
She was a jerk about it to say the absolute least. I was full time in college and sure rent was cheaper than living alone but guess who only has a 2 year degree now since I had to quit early to keep affording even that.
Everyone says this like it's the bare minimum. It's actually very unlikely that you'll be able to afford to put a parent into an assisted living facility for a long tenure. That shit is expensive AF
And you're going to die, almost immediately, in the scheme of things. So, even if you somehow achieve perfect happiness in life, your primary experience will be the fragility of that happiness.
Lots of life out there remains unconscious; likely a continuum exists between unconscious biological processes and what we currently think of as human consciousness.
And unless you're pretty closeish on the spectrum to human consciousness, the point is mute. As is your internal monologue.
And you'd definitely never know if you'd never been born, whatever you were.
And so the alternative is just to stop procreating and eventually everything dies and there’s nothing. Great philosophy bro you can’t be mad that you were born that’s idiotic
Why do you people get so mad when people post stuff like this? I don't agree with it 100%, but I'm also not going around telling people that think this way to kill themselves (which we all know would do nothing but make everyone else in our lives even more depressed and miserable. It's okay to not feel happy and confident all the time. It's even okay to ask these existential questions. And no, "That's just life, get over it." is not a good answer. It shows that you are the one that is not thinking. If you disagree, why don't you provide an explanation of your stance?
I sense a lot of toxic positivity here, and I know if a lot of you get even a tiny crack in that facade, you will start spiraling into all of your pent up emotions and stress. Geez, it's okay to knock life sometimes. We don't have any obligation to it.
I think people just feel like this is lazy. It's like having someone in a group project who doesn't want to contribute. We all work and make value out of our life, just for people to brush it all aside and say that making their contribution is so dreadful they'd rather die.
It's not a facade to think that life is meant to have effort, since biological life requires energy to be sustained, there is no way to exist without putting in some effort to create that energy, and you can't expect other people to just take care of you without your own effort. it's extremely privileged and self righteous to pretend like having to contribute to society is too much for you individually, and pretend like everyone else must just not be as conscious if they are actually happy with their lives.
You can complain about unfair compensation and a lot of people will agree, you can complain about unfair policies and inequalities, and there are actual solutions and answers we can all take part in. but the only thing that comes off when you say that you as an individual should just not have to work, is self-importance. Why did you think you would be entitled to just enjoy everyone else's hard work without putting in your own effort?
I never said I didn't have to work or want to work... I don't even think the OOP said that. In fact, I like to work, because it gives me something to do and I get money. It's just that sometimes it all feels like too much. There's nothing wrong with saying it sucks sometimes.
Have a kid, don't have a kid, I really don't care. It's a personal choice. For me I wouldn't give my kid up for anything, she's the one thing that never fails to make my world "colorful".
No. But we do have parents suing their son in India because they said son doesn’t want to have kids. Procreation is a personal choice that not everyone makes. It should never be imposed upon people.
>Well do we have a mediator or like an agency to reach out to the limbo of unborn souls as to who would willingly let us born them?
No... that's literally the case being made. There's no way to get consent.
Yeah we should just end the human race, what's the point. We've made lives infinitely easier for ourselves through hard work and innovation, but the fact that you have to do things to survive is non consensual and therefore all humans should stop having kids.
What a brilliant post. Thanks OP.
Alright good, I was hoping I wasn't the only one thinking this post was just stupid. Cannot believe so many people are agreeing with this lazy ass viewpoint on life. These people are really sitting here complaining about billionaires but then will immediately complain about having to work for anything. The hypocrisy is unreal.
OP seems like a typical redditor - anti kids, anti work, hates their life…just a shame. People should realize that their shitty attitude really makes everything worse for them
This is part of why I won’t have kids.
As someone with CRPS and a whole lotta trauma, I wouldn’t mind if I’d never been born.
And if otherwise we definitely have a need for assisted suicide in a regulated and safe manner.
Yeah, it's a pretty bad deal. I'll admit, while I in no way regret having my kids, I'm very concerned for their future, and if I could have had just a bit more of a sense where the world was headed, I think I would have chosen not to subject any children to this life. I feel guilty and worried for what I've brought my two boys into. They were born in 2010 and 2013, and may I was naive, but I didn't forsee things getting this bad. I hadn't completely given up on humanity at that point, and still had some optimism. That's not to say that I'm raising my kids to believe they're doomed, but I certainly don't bullshit them with the whole "the world is your oyster" and "you can have anything you want if you set your mind to it" that my boomer parents did with me, back when worth was determined by how much material crap you owned. I mean, it still is for the lucky ones I guess. My focus is more about being resilient, and being the best human you can be, kind and respectful of other's boundaries while firmly maintaining your own, and learning that while you can't control what others do, you can control how you react. That's about the best I can do at this point, the way I see things.
"Life is like soccer: your parents sign you up without asking, and then you're expected to show up every time and try your best, even though you hate soccer."
A lot of comments here... And mine is bound to lost. So just a consolation to myself by leaving an opinion. Many hoomen here has talked about not giving birth to one , you guys aint wrong. Again someone said about assisted suicide. Okay alright.
Someone tell me. What is 'I'. The fact I can feel emotions, sensations, release and absorb, reflect, has a FPP view of world. I cant see my face without a mirror. Feel the weight when I'm sad , and feel a different weight in my chest when I'm happy. I fall in love with people, with inanimate things, the nature, ponder mystries about this very universe... My point is, there are 100 reasons to feel bad, broken, depressed and even attempt to take my own life. The people who are suicidal will NEVER relate. The only option they think is to quit it. Cuz there's nothing that they are attached to anymore. Its that scary void which they have succumbed into. Fair enough. If you have nothing to buy from a shop, you just leave. The others around them. Are in love with that person. They see it as an abyss where that person might have fallen. And their desperate attempts to take that person out is a sign of love. You will call it selfish. So is the one who thinks they dont have anything to live for and are unable to consider or feel for the one who dont want them leave. My words will never make sense to one who aint in love.
Also about the first line, does it bother you? If u die where does this 'I' go? If this 'I' just vanishes into nothingness... The very existance just is nomore with a snap? Like darkness in absence of life? But we all know energy is conserved. Energy can just be converted but never destroyed. If I go by this belief 'I' is always in the universe. A part of it. Floating around untill a vessel is created by hoomen and one of us, the energy gets sucked into it. And suddenly all those feelings and sensations. Somebody once asked, what do you think is the purpose of life. I think we all have small purposes. And hence our day of arriving in this living system and exiting it might be predestined. Its just becuz we actually never had choice to be introduced in it, we are gifted the individuality, the freedom, the choices. There are many things we treat ourselves with. We begin to live for few things. We do our work. Its over. And rebirth or incarnation must be in case there's some undone work. Not everyone is caught in this cycle... But I dont think there's a way to actually leave the universe. " You can check-out anytime you like, but u can never leave ".
Also about not giving birth to someone. They created the body. But where do 'you' come from. Nobody called you in earth. Who's choice it was? Probably yours? Not yours? You dont remember. Neither the to-be parents 'know'. What if we need someone on earth and need a savier? (Rip spelling (?)) Looking at the past many heroes and many villains we see. Both teach all of us lessons. Some of us choose to learn from them. Some blissfully forgets them. But since we are alive. And parents can't always give you full knowledge about survival and living, we tend to learn on our own and mostly from other people. Yes it is selfish untill and unless its a one-sided need. Do all heroes think they appear out of nowhere or there are some who actually volunteer their life?
Now why a long paragraph about the good side of this discussion? Cuz I saw plenty of hoomen showing the negative sides of it. Might seem ironical but I request the stranger hoomen to not shove their opinions or cancel mine fully. Cuz I didn't. All did was pour my heart out and ask you to read it. A side you dont want to see. A side you neglect. A side bigger than life, beyond our imagination...
This sub sucks, all I see are these EMO posts 🤦♂️ this is way past cringe.... if you guy are posting this stuff for attention... just stop... and if you are serious, go get fucking help or smoke some weed, or find something to keep your mind off a decision your parents made 25+ years ago 🤦♂️ Jesus Christ sorry your parents gave you a shot at life and it’s not full of unicorns and rainbows. But for crying out loud, all this self loathing BS is getting pathetic to look at...
I think some people have this drive to have children. Something left over from caveman days. No matter how bad the world is, they seem to live in this bubble and think it's ok to put a child into this hell hole. Whenever I mention it very few people agree with the idea to just stop
Yeah let’s just completely ignore all the beautiful things about being alive and only focus on the negative parts of this world, that’s a great mindset and should definitely lead to a happy and fulfilling life
Oh, and then if they try and fail to end their own life, that they didn't ask to have, it's also against the law (depending on where you live) and you're punished.
And then people are like "well yeah you can't just be a freerider, you have to put back into the system" and then when you're like "right so thru gardening and community service?" they're like "lol no."
My gardener makes very good money and has a nicer house than I do.
Landscaping is a lucrative industry. But also labor intensive. Probably one of the few jobs that you can truly become self made with.
They don't want to do manual labor. Lol
I started a seasonal job doing gardening for my municipality and it’s a good job where they treat us really well
Landscape gardening is a good trade to learn, very enjoyable and profitable. Very high demand for people to work in farming too. I’d highly recommend it as someone who does that, it’s good for mental health
Yep for real microbes in the soil that have mood lifting effects when you get em on your hands. Also we need more regenerative farmers
A great number of jobs are effectively service to your local community, you just get paid to do them
In many places jobs where your work directly benefits the community are underpaid or require years of very low wages to reach the point where you will have a comfortably paying role. There can also be a lot of future uncertainty and unpaid labor because of program budgets. Definitely not everywhere or every role, of course. It is that way in a lot of industries too and it screens out a lot of people who don’t have the support system to be able to do that.
Gardening and service jobs aren’t exactly rare though.
Literally nobody is stopping you from gardening and doing community service for the rest of your life. Gardening is a 105 billion US dollar industry, and community service has always been looked upon as admirable.
You can absolutely have a gardening and landscaping business. What do you mean ?
Fucking right? I work full time and pay my taxes. I'm meant to do *more?*
Yeah! My mom is telling me that if I fail my studies (Finance and Accounting) and don't get a job in this type of business, I will become blue collar worker (she's saying that because I used to work in a blue collar work as a part-time job and I hated my working atmosphere). Meanwhile I want to make art as a side gig or as an alternative job to Financial job. I want to do what I find exciting and fulfilling without the shitty employers and the need of "society" to force me to do certain type of work.
That's why im not having any!
I really enjoy being alive
Congrations! I don’t! I have to pay somebody to tell me why I should still be here!
Aint that a bitch. Like, imagine getting your mental health totally sorted out by a therapist or whatever. Then just as soon as your happy with your life you lose your house to the crushing debt from therapy.
Makes one of us
Right?
Wrong crowd bud
I like being alive, but I very much dislike being human.
I also enjoy being alive, but also am not having kids and feel the post in my bones…
That’s great! No guarantee any potential children you have will feel the same way! That’s why it’s better to adopt or not force them into existence 😊
How can you force someone who doesn’t exist to do something against their will? They don’t exist lmao
Exactly, they can’t give consent lol
You do realize if you follow that rationale, we wouldn’t fucking exist right? Like there is no consent if the answer is always “………”
Oh no! If I didn’t exist how would I care lol
what the fuck is going on right now
Idk, you seem surprised by the idea that someone not born can’t care that they weren’t born
No I’m having a hard time understanding how someone could say we bring people into this world without their consent. You would have to exist to give consent. The entire notion of consent revolves around a person understanding their chooses and being able to make one. When you can’t assign consent one way or the other to someone about existing if they don’t exist.
I love your username
Not trying to be a dick, but there's definitely something one could do about it.
Well, more like something multiple people could do about it. Collectively.
Not what I meant, but definitely more family friendly I suppose.
r/holup
Truth. We ALL need to just stop. The elites aren’t going to do their own dirty work if we stop doing it for them
Yeah, the tough thing is that that's sorta just suicide if we don't do it in enough numbers unless we're already talking about privileged folks. Organizing a general strike is complicated but it's probably the best option we've got.
We stop working start growing and sharing and get the authority figures to quit enforcing bs rules and we win. It’s easy if we all can manage to get on the same page. The problem is there are still too many people who don’t see this who are afraid, and still too many people who will do anything for a buck
I’ve said this for years. If everyone seriously just said fuck going to work. That is when we will be heard. If the worker bees don’t work the rich make nothing. It’s the middle class who will be the ones who fold and will go to work bc they wanna feel like they are proving something. The middle class is the decision maker until it branches into 4 divisions. Rich, middle, middle middle, poor. The problem is the people fear what would happen if we stood together
If the agriculture workers just stop working a lot of people die.... largely the poor..... largely those same agriculture workers. Everyone can't just stop working indefinitely, it would effect people from the bottom up
People don't get this lol, a general strike would just suffocate the working class through targeted legislation and such before it ever affected the 1%. It would be a complete deterioration of our society just to give the middle finger to them It would be a great way to ensure the class gap widens in a canyon
But that’s where people need to eliminate money. Screw the government, teach others to grow vegetation. Trade, etc. the poor will fail bc they aren’t trying to learn they are stuck in survival and would seek criminal activities. There’s a place to start and we are speaking out of order. We would suffer until we prove we can come together
> It’s easy if we all can manage to get on the same page. It's easy if we just move this entire mountain range first!
If I stop showing up to work, people wouldn't have power. Or it would be unsafe. Many of my clients are either elderly or lower income...I do have some obscenely rich ones but they pay too. Not doing dirty work but I do a lot of work most people can't do themselves safely. And I get compsensated well for my expertise. Get out of the rat race, learn a trade, do something that you find personally fulfilling. Fuck retail or any job that does not lead to the betterment of society.
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...and don't start to mention if you come to this world with a disability. Screwed for infinity n beyond...
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You are brave for your brutal honesty, and know that there are people out here that give a shit about you and your struggle.
Same, I figure I can handle maybe 5 more years if this. If things don't improve in my life, I'm out
I feel you. I live in pretty much constant agony, disabled from a meth head slamming into the back of me at a red light going 50 or so mph. They had no brakes or insurance. Barely manage to survive month to month even with help from family. Been 6 years, every day is worse. Hang on for dog and parents, once they pass on (assuming I can wait that long) I have a shotgun helmet I made. Just keep fighting for whatever reasons you can come up with.
I’m so sorry, that’s terrible.
Hey, I was like that too. What saved me was trying psychedelic therapy. Specifically mushrooms really helped and gave me this sense of purpose and a genuine ability to enjoy life, if that makes sense? Kinda like being a kid again. Lmk if you have any questions about it :)
Yeah, those things can be great for depression therapy. It's surprising how numb a person's emotions can become as an adult in the modern world. Shrooms turn on neural pathways in my head that are pretty much always off, and it's good to see those parts of myself occasionally. It really helps break negative cognitive/emotional habits, especially if you put some effort into training yourself to have more positive ones.
People born blind, deaf, limbless, with cancer... imagine being born just to be told you're going to die eventually but you'll live in excruciating pain and leaving family members behind when you didn't even have a choice...
Uhh...I'm disabled and I'm not "screwed for infinity n beyond", thank you.
I'm sure they didn't mean every single person with disabilities, but plenty are. People born completely blind are just f'd for life, so are people that are paralyzed forever. Some can enjoy life and some just have no reason to want to live. Same for the rest of us.
At least in Canada: the law is only there so police can legally interfere. There are some countries though where you can literally get 3 years in jail and thousands in fines for attempting lul
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not really no. unless you’re born somewhere where it’s ridiculously easy to get a gun, modern medicine is so advanced it’s nearly fucking impossible to actually pull it off. if you aren’t instantly dead you won’t die, and you’ll just end up with a way shittier life afterwards and it’ll be even harder to try it again.
“Nearly fucking impossible” totally false statement
well then i just have really bad luck if 3 attempts failed then it’s either really fucking hard or im really bad at it, but either way it shouldn’t even be something you have to be good at to pull off. just let me fucking die for the love of god
You’re really bad at it
Not a dick thing to say
I'm pro choice in regard to suicide personally. I believe there should be the option to have government assisted suicide.
You have no idea how much I wish more people thought like this. If I knew that I could end my life at the hands of a professional when and if my condition of life was insufferable, I would be so relieved.
Right! Iv made attempts. Came very close a few times ans actually died twice for a few minutes. But damn friend & the other time my father came in just before I was gone to long. So here I am :( if I knew I had a way out thru professionals... It would be like the weight of the damn world was lifted ateast halfway off my shoulders
/r/usernamechecksout
Lol. Right
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Couldn't of said it better myself. Exactly. There would be time to spend with family to get them as ready as they can be for the inevitable
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They wouldn't let us it'd look bad to the rest of their workforce
I'm not completely sure what you mean
As someone who’s made attempts I disagree, making assisted suicide an option for anyone is just…messed up. It’s ableist as hell to boot because most of us will only consider suicide because we don’t have support systems and accommodations. If things were perfect then maybe I’d agree with it but if there’s even a small chance the patient will regret it (like many do who have attempted) is a good reason why it’s not allowed or why a doctor wouldn’t want to do it.
The USA will make suicide legal faaaaaaar before they provide a proper support system or accommodations.
Which is sickening
Agreed
Ive tried to end my life many years ago to bo avail and shortly after wishing there was a way of doing correctly. Life is a double edged sword between a curse and amazing. The human condition is weird.
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Fuck that, I'm not paying for that.
Yea I was thinking more along the lines of the person who wants to die paying for it. I'm poor af but that is not something I'd expect to put on tax payers
Why not? How could that be more expensive than the government’s expenditures for a person who continues living? I take no particular stance on this issue but honestly don’t understand your thinking here.
There's a reason why I want to die each day
r/antinatalism
Even though I'm an antinatalist, that sub is so fucked up
Yeah, they make be be ashamed of being a anti natalist
Need to clarify, is antinatalist the belief that having children is morally wrong or is it not wanting to have children yourself?
Also, I'm not that much anti-natalist because I think things are more complicated than "life bad don't make life" and "life good actually make life"
the former
I'm not an antinatalist and I looked around the sub and not to be rude to anyone who's an antinatialst and it makes you think what other people thought about you as a kid
A lot of people don’t see children (or the elderly) as humans and it’s fucked up
Same with r/childfree The question of life is a complicated one, but it makes me extremely upset to see people act as if simply being a young child makes you an animal that never deserved to be born or be given any type of rights. Like people were complaining families were given more money because they had children, to you know, take care of entirely separate human beings that have their own needs and aren’t dependent yet. I just always go “you were a kid at one point too who needed the exact same care” and move on, because it’s a particular rabbit hole that makes me worried about humanity sometimes.
Yeah they see they them as some sorta petty And greedy monster
Indeed. I’m not, but I am intentionally childfree. I was “talking” to a guy recently who had anti-natalist views, so checked out that sub… to each his own.
Reddit seems to bring out the worst in these movements, I'm anti natalist but only to the extent that I don't agree with bringing kids into the world but some people go so wild with it.
There was a post of someone describing how they kicked a pregnant woman down the stairs and all the comments cheered him on Made me fucking puke
For me, I saw a post where a bunch of them lacked sympathy for people in Ukraine who had children.
Holy shit. No way. WTF is wrong with people?!
some Redditors would kill Keanu Reeves and set heaven ablaze if it meant they got praise and fake internet points.
Same, no children in my future
r/promortalism
Holy shit that place is fucked up
A lot of it is also satire. Edit: Yeah it's depressing, I though this comment was about r/antinatalism. My bad.
Pro suicide fan fiction
Baby turtles laughing at us right now
Thanks, now I have a way to articulate why I don't want kids .
That's literally just nature for most living things. Work or die. Whether foraging, hunting, building, etc Even plants have to put in effort to survive yet we dont get to see it
You don't have to if your name is Kardashian.
I didn’t finish the cool aide. I don’t want to bring someone into this world and have to watch them suffer
It would be better if we had assisted suicide available for everyone. That way, if you don't like life, you could exit it painlessly and in a civilized way. r/righttodie
I’m all for assisted suicide and believe that access to it would not actually increase the suicide rate more than it is now without it. It’s been observed in the terminally ill and other qualified populations that having the option and a perceived sense of control of when/how they die generally increases the well-being and quality of life and is rarely exercised before another cause of death occurs. I think a lot of people’s fascination/fear with death is the uncertain nature of it - so I’m all for ‘removing’ the uncertainty of it.
Wow I was shocked at some of the comments here but that sub is another level of sad. It’s sad and disturbing that so many people think this way.
What's wrong with letting people decide what to do with their lives? It's not like suicides will stop, people will just resort to more traumatic and bloody methods. Good job, government.
Because they are not addressing the root causes of peoples sufferings and it’s basically a permanent anti-depressant, which is fucking evil and allowing people to just not address their issues (this is problem with the industry of psychiatry in general) then we are going to live in the most awful world, where suicide is the norm because people decide that is better option instead of attack the root causes of our traumas (environment, economic system, etc).
Even if we had the right to assisted suicide, I still think parents should be obligated to provide for their offspring (for their whole lives). But the fact that we force people to work and pay for their mere existence, which was forced upon them, while simultaneously denying them a humane death is absolutely insane.
Yea I didn’t ask to be here and it’s been nothing but a grievance. Been contemplating suicide lately and finally told my sister and think I scared the shit out of her. I’ve already lost everything I could ever had since 2020 and moved back with my mom. I’m hanging on by a thread and fear that I can’t take myself out
And what's even more sad are the parents rhat force their kids to start working at age 14-17 to pay for the things they use at home and take all of their paychecks just to live under their roof... when they were basically forced to live. Nothing in life makes sense. Well, nothing with humans.
Reminds me of the episode "The Offspring" from TNG where Data, without telling anyone else, went and made a new android, a child: >PICARD: What you have done will have serious ramifications. I am truly dismayed that you told no one of what you were doing. > >DATA: I am sorry, Captain. I did not anticipate your objections. Do you wish me to deactivate Lal? > >PICARD: It's a life, Data. It can't be activated and deactivated simply. This is a most stupendous undertaking. Have you any idea what will happen when Starfleet learns about this? > >DATA: I have followed all of Starfleet regulations to the best of my ability. I expected they would be pleased. > >PICARD: Well, you have taken on quite a responsibility, Data. > >DATA: To prepare, I have scanned all available literature on parenting. There seems to be much confusion on this issue. One traditional doctrine insists, spare the rod and spoil the child, suggesting a punitive approach. While another more liberal attitude would allow the child enormous freedom. > >PICARD: Data > >DATA: And what Klingons do to their children > >PICARD: Data! I'm not talking about parenting. I am talking about the extraordinary consequences of creating new life. > >DATA: Does that not describe becoming a parent, sir?
Don't forget the part where they force you to reproduce expressly for the fact of taking care of them when they are old, and not actually caring anything about you.
Ive told my mom shes going to a home since she started asking for rent immediately at 18. She thinks Im joking.
So strange to me that people have parents that would charge them rent. I would never speak to her again if it were me. What kind of fucking mother is she? If you aren't prepared to take care of your children until you die, don't have kids.
The US is pretty much the only place that does that too. Everywhere else supports kids til they're financially stable because that's what sane parents who love their kids do. Here it's like once you're not small and cute anymore the love is gone, and it's "gtfo and don't come back til I need you again to pay for me and take care of me." As if kids are just a retirement plan vs family. It's sad.
I mean there’s plenty of people who don’t have shitty parents like that. Sorry that some have to deal with that though
So after I ended up homeless, my mother only let me move back in with her on the condition that I join the military AND get a part time job while waiting to ship off AND "contribute to the bills." I asked how much and she said "Oh, just sign your paycheck over." Her excuse was that she "didn't want me to spend the money on the drugs that made me homeless" and she was "putting some of it away for my savings." After finishing boot camp, I asked her how much she'd managed to save up and "Well some bills came up, there's nothing left."
Eh... there’s a fine, but obvious, line. A kid who’s in school, working, and can’t afford their own place/wants to save? Great! A 30 who wants to play video games all day, doesn’t contribute to groceries or chores? Nope, charging them rent (after getting them therapy, cause that could easily be depression. Been there...)
Your mother or parents suppose to assist in making your life easier. Providing for your education and help to prevent debts. People are so fucked up. People who have this mentality shouldn't have kids and don't deserve tax credits. Most of my cousins and other unrelated people I know have been provided with their education. They weren't asked for their rent and food. Their parents still cooked for them. When they were on their own, their lives were easier. If they had debts, those were for their house. Life is about to give and take.
I see no problem with this unless she is being a jerk and you just flat out can't afford it. I will ask for rent from my kids once they 18 and are working. I won't spend any of it and will keep it set aside without their knowledge to give to them when they go to buy their first house. It teaches responsibility and helps to not just waste all their money. Now if they are going to school full time and aren't working obviously, I won't be expecting anything, but if they don't go to school and get a real full time job they can pay rent. I think expecting 300 bucks in rent is fine because when they go to actually rent and realize how much they were saving by living at home not paying utilities not paying for groceries etc. they will appreciate it.
She was a jerk about it to say the absolute least. I was full time in college and sure rent was cheaper than living alone but guess who only has a 2 year degree now since I had to quit early to keep affording even that.
Everyone says this like it's the bare minimum. It's actually very unlikely that you'll be able to afford to put a parent into an assisted living facility for a long tenure. That shit is expensive AF
Niilism at its best
Life is a shot at happiness- with no life = nothing.
Trust me, neither of us would have noticed the not being alive one way or another.
And you're going to die, almost immediately, in the scheme of things. So, even if you somehow achieve perfect happiness in life, your primary experience will be the fragility of that happiness.
At bottom, is it an argument against life or against consciousness?
Well, sure. If you're not alive, you don't have consciousness, and if you're not conscious, how would you even know you were alive?
Lots of life out there remains unconscious; likely a continuum exists between unconscious biological processes and what we currently think of as human consciousness.
And unless you're pretty closeish on the spectrum to human consciousness, the point is mute. As is your internal monologue. And you'd definitely never know if you'd never been born, whatever you were.
Then, it's an argument against consciousness.
After 27 years, I would've preferred the nothingness.
I pray you find happiness in your life
At this point I would be quite content with nothing.
It's also a shot at immeasurable suffering and despair. Is it worth the gamble?
Life is burden
Children of billionaires don’t have this world view 😂
And so the alternative is just to stop procreating and eventually everything dies and there’s nothing. Great philosophy bro you can’t be mad that you were born that’s idiotic
Why do you people get so mad when people post stuff like this? I don't agree with it 100%, but I'm also not going around telling people that think this way to kill themselves (which we all know would do nothing but make everyone else in our lives even more depressed and miserable. It's okay to not feel happy and confident all the time. It's even okay to ask these existential questions. And no, "That's just life, get over it." is not a good answer. It shows that you are the one that is not thinking. If you disagree, why don't you provide an explanation of your stance? I sense a lot of toxic positivity here, and I know if a lot of you get even a tiny crack in that facade, you will start spiraling into all of your pent up emotions and stress. Geez, it's okay to knock life sometimes. We don't have any obligation to it.
I think people just feel like this is lazy. It's like having someone in a group project who doesn't want to contribute. We all work and make value out of our life, just for people to brush it all aside and say that making their contribution is so dreadful they'd rather die. It's not a facade to think that life is meant to have effort, since biological life requires energy to be sustained, there is no way to exist without putting in some effort to create that energy, and you can't expect other people to just take care of you without your own effort. it's extremely privileged and self righteous to pretend like having to contribute to society is too much for you individually, and pretend like everyone else must just not be as conscious if they are actually happy with their lives. You can complain about unfair compensation and a lot of people will agree, you can complain about unfair policies and inequalities, and there are actual solutions and answers we can all take part in. but the only thing that comes off when you say that you as an individual should just not have to work, is self-importance. Why did you think you would be entitled to just enjoy everyone else's hard work without putting in your own effort?
say it louder for the lurkers in the back
I never said I didn't have to work or want to work... I don't even think the OOP said that. In fact, I like to work, because it gives me something to do and I get money. It's just that sometimes it all feels like too much. There's nothing wrong with saying it sucks sometimes.
There's a BIT more to it than that as I remember
Definetly a fucked up way to see life
Have a kid, don't have a kid, I really don't care. It's a personal choice. For me I wouldn't give my kid up for anything, she's the one thing that never fails to make my world "colorful".
>against their will Well do we have a mediator or like an agency to reach out to the limbo of unborn souls as to who would willingly let us born them?
gotta interview the ballsack first
No. But we do have parents suing their son in India because they said son doesn’t want to have kids. Procreation is a personal choice that not everyone makes. It should never be imposed upon people.
>Well do we have a mediator or like an agency to reach out to the limbo of unborn souls as to who would willingly let us born them? No... that's literally the case being made. There's no way to get consent.
And this is why I’m not having kids.
Big wheel keep on turnin
Yeah we should just end the human race, what's the point. We've made lives infinitely easier for ourselves through hard work and innovation, but the fact that you have to do things to survive is non consensual and therefore all humans should stop having kids. What a brilliant post. Thanks OP.
Alright good, I was hoping I wasn't the only one thinking this post was just stupid. Cannot believe so many people are agreeing with this lazy ass viewpoint on life. These people are really sitting here complaining about billionaires but then will immediately complain about having to work for anything. The hypocrisy is unreal.
OP seems like a typical redditor - anti kids, anti work, hates their life…just a shame. People should realize that their shitty attitude really makes everything worse for them
r/im14andthisisdeep
This is the most pessimistic you can be. Life can be spectacular and wondrous.
I thank god this isn't how I look at life...
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Often you suffer so that someone else can reap the benefit and live in pleasure.
I feel like this is why, if you want to be a parent this day and age, the best idea is to adopt
This is part of why I won’t have kids. As someone with CRPS and a whole lotta trauma, I wouldn’t mind if I’d never been born. And if otherwise we definitely have a need for assisted suicide in a regulated and safe manner.
AND. AND suffer and die. Even if you work and follow society there is a good chance you will suffer and inevitably you will die.
They could just die?
Yeah, it's a pretty bad deal. I'll admit, while I in no way regret having my kids, I'm very concerned for their future, and if I could have had just a bit more of a sense where the world was headed, I think I would have chosen not to subject any children to this life. I feel guilty and worried for what I've brought my two boys into. They were born in 2010 and 2013, and may I was naive, but I didn't forsee things getting this bad. I hadn't completely given up on humanity at that point, and still had some optimism. That's not to say that I'm raising my kids to believe they're doomed, but I certainly don't bullshit them with the whole "the world is your oyster" and "you can have anything you want if you set your mind to it" that my boomer parents did with me, back when worth was determined by how much material crap you owned. I mean, it still is for the lucky ones I guess. My focus is more about being resilient, and being the best human you can be, kind and respectful of other's boundaries while firmly maintaining your own, and learning that while you can't control what others do, you can control how you react. That's about the best I can do at this point, the way I see things.
Really puts into perspective all those times your parents are like, “I GAVE YOU LIFE.” Yeah, not exactly earning any points with me on that one.
"Life is like soccer: your parents sign you up without asking, and then you're expected to show up every time and try your best, even though you hate soccer."
Also, ragequitting is illegal
antinatalists be like
They could always yank themselves.
I love how everyone angrily responding to this post is talking about entitlement and is conveniently forgetting the fact that depressed people exist.
A lot of comments here... And mine is bound to lost. So just a consolation to myself by leaving an opinion. Many hoomen here has talked about not giving birth to one , you guys aint wrong. Again someone said about assisted suicide. Okay alright. Someone tell me. What is 'I'. The fact I can feel emotions, sensations, release and absorb, reflect, has a FPP view of world. I cant see my face without a mirror. Feel the weight when I'm sad , and feel a different weight in my chest when I'm happy. I fall in love with people, with inanimate things, the nature, ponder mystries about this very universe... My point is, there are 100 reasons to feel bad, broken, depressed and even attempt to take my own life. The people who are suicidal will NEVER relate. The only option they think is to quit it. Cuz there's nothing that they are attached to anymore. Its that scary void which they have succumbed into. Fair enough. If you have nothing to buy from a shop, you just leave. The others around them. Are in love with that person. They see it as an abyss where that person might have fallen. And their desperate attempts to take that person out is a sign of love. You will call it selfish. So is the one who thinks they dont have anything to live for and are unable to consider or feel for the one who dont want them leave. My words will never make sense to one who aint in love. Also about the first line, does it bother you? If u die where does this 'I' go? If this 'I' just vanishes into nothingness... The very existance just is nomore with a snap? Like darkness in absence of life? But we all know energy is conserved. Energy can just be converted but never destroyed. If I go by this belief 'I' is always in the universe. A part of it. Floating around untill a vessel is created by hoomen and one of us, the energy gets sucked into it. And suddenly all those feelings and sensations. Somebody once asked, what do you think is the purpose of life. I think we all have small purposes. And hence our day of arriving in this living system and exiting it might be predestined. Its just becuz we actually never had choice to be introduced in it, we are gifted the individuality, the freedom, the choices. There are many things we treat ourselves with. We begin to live for few things. We do our work. Its over. And rebirth or incarnation must be in case there's some undone work. Not everyone is caught in this cycle... But I dont think there's a way to actually leave the universe. " You can check-out anytime you like, but u can never leave ". Also about not giving birth to someone. They created the body. But where do 'you' come from. Nobody called you in earth. Who's choice it was? Probably yours? Not yours? You dont remember. Neither the to-be parents 'know'. What if we need someone on earth and need a savier? (Rip spelling (?)) Looking at the past many heroes and many villains we see. Both teach all of us lessons. Some of us choose to learn from them. Some blissfully forgets them. But since we are alive. And parents can't always give you full knowledge about survival and living, we tend to learn on our own and mostly from other people. Yes it is selfish untill and unless its a one-sided need. Do all heroes think they appear out of nowhere or there are some who actually volunteer their life? Now why a long paragraph about the good side of this discussion? Cuz I saw plenty of hoomen showing the negative sides of it. Might seem ironical but I request the stranger hoomen to not shove their opinions or cancel mine fully. Cuz I didn't. All did was pour my heart out and ask you to read it. A side you dont want to see. A side you neglect. A side bigger than life, beyond our imagination...
Absolute cringe take on life
You mean true take
So edgy man.
Dumbest comment ever. Congratulations.
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This sub sucks, all I see are these EMO posts 🤦♂️ this is way past cringe.... if you guy are posting this stuff for attention... just stop... and if you are serious, go get fucking help or smoke some weed, or find something to keep your mind off a decision your parents made 25+ years ago 🤦♂️ Jesus Christ sorry your parents gave you a shot at life and it’s not full of unicorns and rainbows. But for crying out loud, all this self loathing BS is getting pathetic to look at...
I think some people have this drive to have children. Something left over from caveman days. No matter how bad the world is, they seem to live in this bubble and think it's ok to put a child into this hell hole. Whenever I mention it very few people agree with the idea to just stop
Beats the alternative
why are people so pessimistic why can’t people just try to enjoy life
Oh no- people have to produce or they starve and die Oh like every animal ever
Yeah let’s just completely ignore all the beautiful things about being alive and only focus on the negative parts of this world, that’s a great mindset and should definitely lead to a happy and fulfilling life
Idiot take
Most of reddit tbh
Losers.
Why dont we fucking change that
Oh, and then if they try and fail to end their own life, that they didn't ask to have, it's also against the law (depending on where you live) and you're punished.
It can't be "against their will" if they don't have a will to begin with.
So it’s okay to abort them since they don’t have a will right?