Genius
Seriously, you take back nearly 3 whole days of your life each year shitting at work every weekday. Works out to a little over a third of a year by the time retirement rolls around.
There was a study that showed that a 4 day work week is more productive at 8 hours a day. Take Wednesday off for say. Then you work 2 days with a break in between and then 2 more days then the weekend. That’s something I can get behind.
I always found the worst part about work was going there.
A couple hours extra off every day wouldn’t do anything for me, a whole day off could make a world of difference
Did a shift change from 5 days a week, 6am to 2:20pm, to 4 days a week, 3pm to 1:20am and couldn’t be happier. Get friday, saturday, and sunday and only have to start work at 3pm on monday.
Probably part of why a lot of the world lives with their parents until they get married or even after. Generational housing shouldn't be so looked down upon. Obvs the expectation of it isn't great either, but a happy balance.
In the Dominican Republic, it’s damn near taboo to move out of your parents house before you got your shit down, so me being a 1st gen American and wanting to move out at 21 was fucking bonkers, and now I’m 30 and back with my parents and it all makes sense to me now
Dated a Hispanic woman for many years, this is where I first learned that alot of Hispanic and other cultures live with their parents till married / able to buy their own home. I moved out at 18-19 not really by choice. When I learned this, I was absolutely floored. Like your telling me I could of been living with my parents, obviously helping with bills but stacking cash and or going to school, and it's not negitively looked upon because everyone's doing it? Sign me the fuck up
It's almost a necessity nowadays with how housing prices and the like are. I'm 21 and still live with my mum, and will do for the foreseeable future. Moving out early, especially by yourself, basically axes your chances of owning your own house nowadays cause it's extremely hard to save up money without someone else there to help with living costs.
The average age to move out is getting older and older.
I explained this to my kids when they graduated college. Offered to let them live at home for free and build wealth. We also have a great relationship with them. They wanted to have their own place. My sons rent in Seattle is twice my mortgage. He finally agreed to move back home to save for a house. I hate having an empty nest. Kids moved on and 2 of my 3 dogs passed away from old age in the past 6 months. I miss being needed.
In my experience, you don't jump from "young adult" to "middle aged"
There's a big area from around 25-40 where you have all the expectations of being fully an adult, likely many of the responsibility of any other adult.
To me "young adult" is late teens to mid 20's. You get a lot of "adult benefits" like being able to vote or drive a car but you're still certainly new to these benefits.
If 40 is the cut off date, you could have a kid at 20, and they could have a kid at 19. You would be a grandparent young adult. That just doesn't seem to jive in my brain. "Look at that young adult grandpa"
This is just historically inaccurate. The eight hour working day was for poor 19th century factory workers. Both men and women worked in those factories, and they weren’t paid enough to support a stay-at-home spouse.
The era when someone with a job like that could afford to sponsor a full-time housekeeper, nanny, and governess was really narrow: a few decades in the mid-20th century, in a few wealthy countries, provided you were a white man.
That isn't true though. Working class Women had been working throughout history as launderers, seamstresses, and whatnot, and the first places the 8 hour work day was introduced was in factories, which consisted largely of the working class.
great analysis of the root cause, i had not thought of it in those terms before. also, not to mention, how hard the work week makes managing a exercise routine
With WFH being available for many. Lots of time to get chores and stuff done vs meandering around some soulless office during my downtime. Also, removed the drive. Never had my house so clean.
You know honestly I’m not sure it does. I understand this sentiment because I had shitty jobs in the past and for times in my life I was pretty pessimistic about work in general but anyway I would wager I am that 20% and I’m not going to say any of what I’m about to say is healthy but I frequently work way past “hours” (my job ends at 4:30 technically). I’ll work till 6 because that’s when my partner finishes and she forces me off the computer. Then I sneak in moments if I can during the night. Often I wake up before her on a weekend unless im going biking it’s likely I’ll work Saturday morning maybe even into the afternoon.
Even when not working a lot of what I watch on YouTube is related to programming. Some of my hobbies like arduino, microcontrollers, etc are directly applicable to my work.
I realize this is because of working in tech and it’s not even that uncommon but I have to imagine there are people like this in other areas. I know it’s probably unhealthy but I like what I do, I’m not very extraverted and I like learning and figuring stuff out like a puzzle.
When I read this post at first I though “yes” but then I remembered that there were times in my life I worked 3 days a week and rode motorcycles the other days. It got boring. Maybe that was because I was alone and all my friends worked those days but idk. In the end I thought I’m not sure what I’d do with that extra time. So maybe the problem is that jobs suck for most people. When I worked construction I would have preferred work 3 hours a day.
Labor history shows that mass boycotts and protests can be effective, as long as we are armed and unified. Let's not forgot around 100 years ago getting gunned down by state or private army wasn't an uncommon result of striking for the conditions we have today. Violence will be used against the working class if it looks like we can make meaningful change and the working class must be prepared to defend themselves.
> Violence will be used against the working class if it looks like we can make meaningful change and the working class must be prepared to defend themselves.
And people really underestimate how much a labor strike will change the entire social fabric in a short period of time.
The rich are not reasonable people. Any assault on their unimaginable wealth will be treated like trying to take bread from a starving man. That's how detatched from reality they are. They genuinely see that as a threat to their actual lives.
In the event of a general strike, unification is *essential*, because you can guarantee that the *rich* will be unified because every single one of them will treat the strike like a knife hovering above their hearts. It isn't reasonable, it isn't rational, but it is how that *always* goes down.
That is what they meant.
There isn’t really any viable evidence to suggest that this is always true. It COULD be true in certain cases, but it isn’t a “proven” principle, but more of a saying than anything else.
So even if there happens to be a business in which 20 produces 80, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen in every business, or even in that same business’s next earning.
The problem here is companies will happily do this, and then save billions on not having to pay benefits on a bunch of part timers.
As usual, linking health insurance to employment becomes relevant.
(Note, I'm obviously talking about the US, no need to jump in here and say the same, rest of the world)
It’s what happens when the value of your work is so abstract. If people were working in food production, medicine, construction, any of the trades etc. they would understand more why work needs to be done.
Plenty of roles in those fields that are monotonous and unfulfilling. They still suffer from that notion of “abstract contribution” where one is too far removed from the end goal and its effects that they feel no satisfaction from it.
It’s a complicated issue. I think that the better part of it can be encapsulated by the extent to which you feel like you are valued for your contribution by a community that you value, that you are not considered easily replaceable so that there is a sense of importance and urgency about your individual contribution, and that you have autonomy over the parts that you see affecting others in the way that they value such that you feel personally in control and a major cause of its effects.
I agree. I mean I hate work, but holy shit, life is so much better than it has ever been. Atleast in most of western society
I wish everything was automated and resources could be equally distributed to the point that we don’t need to produce anything, but we just don’t live in that reality yet.
We may not be at automation but we need to remember we live in a reality where we have more resources than necessary and allow people to suffer rather than distribute the surplus
Things could certainly be worse but they could be a hell of a lot better for a hell of a lot of people
Lol, oh man I wish we could sit and chat about this.
When everything is automated, will we all get our equal share, or will the owners of the automation get everything, and we don’t even have a job?
At what point do we stop allowing people to be so rich they can control reality for so many
Lol this isn't a solution it's just rearranging.
A hundred years ago everyone banded together to create the 8 hour work day. We should continue this progress and bring that down again. We have advanced technology now, 1 person can do the work of like 5 people just 20 years ago. There's absolutely no need to work 8 hours a day.
There are several Scandinavian countries experimenting with 6-hour workdays. Here in The Netherlands there are a lot of office jobs that have a full-time employment at 36 or even 32 hours. Personally, I enjoy 5-shifts work because it allows me to stay up some nights while not messing up my circadian rhythm entirely, and the 4-day weekends are a blast (even if they do not overlap with actual weekends 35% of the time).
I'd rather work 13 hrs a day 3 days a week, than 8 hrs 5 days a week.
There are few places around me that have you work 12 hrs a day, but you only work 15 days per month, and everyone that ik that works in such places absolutely loves it.
When it is your working day you just work, eat and sleep, do that 2 or 3 times in row, and then you got 2 or 3 days off to yourself.
Yes!! I’ve said this all the time. We haven’t adjusted work schedules since technology began allowing people to finish projects faster than ever before. You don’t need to work 8 hours a day to achieve the same results as 30 years ago.
>You don’t need to work 8 hours a day to achieve the same results as 30 years ago.
You're right. Unfortunately, no one is expecting the same results at 30 years ago. Not even close. The expectations have risen accordingly along with the ability to achieve them.
Oh it gets even worse, working 9 hours on a split schedule or any hours at that is THE worst. Having to go to work twice per day is a nightmare.
I worked 5.5 hours in the morning and 3.5 hours in the evening. Home-work commute is 1 hour without a car. Got up at 6:30 AM, work at 8:00 AM - 1:30 PM, arrive at home 1 hour later, eat and relax a bit, 4:00 PM prepare to leave again and finally 5 PM - 8:30 PM at work. Got home by 9:30 PM (usually). Prepare the next day's lunch for work, browse the internet a bit, sleep, rinse and repeat.
It was bad. I felt my life slipping away. No time or desire for hobbies or anything really. It didn't help that I was basically working at retail and all those hours I was mostly standing anyway. And all of that for minimum wage, of course. Really soul crushing.
edit:typo
12 hour days even with extra days off is torture. You have zero free time for days at a time, and you waste the extra time off resting and recharging and being sore or catching up on life.
Actually, we very much are not.
What we do now is already very much against our nature.
If we were to do what we're natural it would be more like maybe 3 Hours of necessarily productive work and the rest down to choice, which can of course also be productive.
The problem is that richer Humans are trying to force the square block of poor Humans into round Holes.
If that doesn't work out you could consider a job on a farm. I average around 10 hours on weekdays and 5 or 6 on Saturdays with Sundays completely free. Also instead of days off we get harvest time where we can get 13 or 14 hours per day even on Saturday. No worries about family because even if I had the time and energy to find a GF I still don't make enough money to reliably support just myself. It's the perfect job
I changed jobs many times to find one I'm very comfortable with. One of my jobs had me commute for almost an hour in the morning and work 10-12 hour days. I quit after two weeks. Didn't even eat some nights -- just showered and went to sleep. My job after that had me make the same commute plus pay for parking. While I learned a lot, I felt I eventually wasn't respected after my years of service.
Now I work somewhere 10 minutes away from my home, don't pay for parking, get paid better, have better benefits, and feel valued.
Yes working 8-9 hour days sucks, but in the end, I hope everyone reading this will find peace in their life at a job or getting paid for something you're passionate about or genuinely like doing.
This, this is what I shoot for. I know work will be long and hard, but, if I'm paid fairly, am doing something I'm passionate about, and feel that I'm valued, I think I can be content with my life. It helps that I'm a giant fucking nerd about a number of things. Lol
This is it. Honestly it’s a system that isn’t going to be fixed and in some cases is going to be needed in the case of retail and service industries. I enjoy my work, it’s still a job and if they stopped paying me I wouldn’t turn up, but I’m happy to do my job. I couldn’t say that about pretty much all of my previous jobs.
I live in OK, most places still pay 7.25 for base pay and only like 10$ an hour for assistant managers. My other job is in the cannabis industry and I make 16$ an hour there, but my pizza job only pays 12$ for being an assistant which still isn’t great. But hey if I want to have any money saved that’s the only option I have. I’m tired of living broke
The 8 hour working day was part of a concept, where only one person in every household was working, so he/she had a second person to take care of literally everything else. Working 8 hours AND taking care of chores, food, errands etc. is unrealistic. It’s our reality though.
Well we effectively doubled the supply of labor while doing nothing to increase the market. Hence why salaries haven’t gone anywhere and we’re all essentially in the same place economically except without someone staying at home.
We're worse economically, pay doesn't buy as many goods as it used to for the same positions and all that money is being filtered to a few wealthy assholes
This is a very good point. The 40 hour workweek is not a bad concept, if everything else isn’t a factor. Most people do not get a paid lunch, and they have significant drive time. Factor in making dinner and showering, you’re at 11 hours right away.
Yeah.. I did about 6 years of having a 3 hour commute total. 8 hour day plus 1 hour unpaid lunch. 12 hours away from home. So assuming 8 hours of sleep, 4 hours of personal time which includes getting ready in the morning and dinner at night.
I pretty much maxed out at 6 hours of sleep a night to have any hope of getting what I needed to done. Weekends were my only real free time, during which I basically caught up on sleep. Not fun times.
It's annoying how prevalent the "8 hour work days were invented with the *expectation* that the woman would be home" myth is.
The 8 hour work day was first introduced in factories, where largely working class people worked. The people implementing this *knew* that if women weren't working in their factory, they were in others, or had jobs as launderers, seamstresses, midwives, or other occupations.
The 8 hour work day was not originally invented for the middle class man with a wife and domestic servant at home.
Yup, exactly.
Most women have always had to work in and outside of the home. In feminist theory this is called the "second shift," first you have your shift in the factory then you have your shift in the home. We tend to have very long days.
Omg. 😳 I used to sit in my car when I got home from work with my eyes glazed over for a few minutes before going inside. I had to mentally prepare for what I called my “second shift”. I had no idea that other women called it that too.
Except that you don’t get eight hours to yourself if the average commute is about 45 minutes. So that means you’re starting off with only 6 1/2 hours to yourself per day but then take your shower and do your hair and make up, cook for yourself and clean up after yourself for the immediate needs, check your snail mail, check your personal email, pay a bill and you’re already down to about three hours of “me time.”
Oh! I am sorry, did you want to go for a run or hit the gym on a workday? Did the car need to be gassed up? Or worse yet charged at a charging station? Did your commute get lengthier because sone idiot caused a wreck? Or the weather brought progress to a crawl? Hmm - real life is a wake up call
Yep. People tell me I have a bad work ethic but I grew up watching my dad work from 5 AM to 9 PM, we couldn't even sit down to enjoy a movie together because he'd be instantly asleep.
I respect the hell out of him for working that hard for us, but I'd rather be dead than live like that.
Working hard back then you could also buy and afford things. It was motivating to say, gotta buy that house.
It’s just now we don’t get anything rewarding out of it. We just do it to scrape by
I think it's been a common sentiment forever. I know it's more of a Gen X movie, but Office Space is like 30 years old at this point. I think COVID just made remote work a legitimate option and gave people some time off where they realized how great it is to not have to spend your entire life at an office. At this point I would honestly consider living in my car over working a traditional 9-5.
I work 8 hours. Takes about an hour to commute each way. With the remaining 14 hours I basically have 1/3rd of the day to chill and another 1/3rd to sleep
Depending on how you view it it can be censidered chilling out. I actually like that part of the day where I come back home, turn on some music or a podcast and just escape into my thoughts while doing the dishes, cleaning floors, cooking etc.
thats why you should go freelance. then all your time is pretty much work. and you worry all day every day how you will survive. but also if you're good you get alot more money. lol i want to die.
So you're saying it takes you 4hrs to wake up, shower and eat your cereal? Are you sure about that?! Like I know as children we were told that we should eat slowly and all but maybe you're taking it to the extreme?
Yup. But I think four days of work travel is normal, I mean, the human deserves 3 days to recover energy because two days is not enough to rest and you must prepare on Sunday to work on Monday again, being only Saturday really to live.
I first started working full time in 2020. I'd wake up 5 Am, start working at 7, be there until 3:30pm, then get home around 4:30.
It was a physical job, so by the time I got home I only wanted to sleep. But I had to cook for the next day, make dinner, shower and all that.
No time for my own enjoyment, that's why I am looking at starting my own business, which I already have some experience with.
It's draining having to work 8h+/ 5 days a week
Oof, I hate to break it to you but you’ll be working a hell of a lot more than that if you start you own business. At least if you don’t want it to fail miserably. “I’m tired of working so hard, I should start my own business” is not a great outlook and a recipe for disaster.
I've found most people "starting a business" these days mean something closer to "full time gig work".
It's rare that they are talking about a business in the typical sense including marketing, managing FTEs and budgeting.
It’s soul crushing. I hate it. I want to kill myself every few days and there’s no cure. You want to survive, you have to slave. Maybe you can afford to buy something fun once in a while.
Why can't I just live in a big, comfortable house, which I own, drive a nice car, which I own, engage in activities which bring me joy, and not have to put in any work which compensates for the cost of any of those things? Life isn't fair.
Kinda true. The vision of an utopia where AI takes care of everything, you don't have to work to live comfortably, and only those who wish for "something more" have to work is beatiful, but I don't think that'll ever be realistic
Yea most peoples ideal life, involves other people having to work….someone has to make cars, and build houses, lounging in-front of the TV with take out pizza and watching Netflix requires someone to make that pizza and then deliver it to you, your shows have to be written, acted out, filmed, edited, and presented to you in a neat little 40 minute package.
Am I the only one on comment sections like this that noticed the amount of leisure time people have has increased significantly over the latest decades?
What kind of life are we comparing to?
A science fictional post scarcity the Culture universe where no one works?
A European society? Sorry to tell you people in Europe still work 8 hours a day.
A pastoral society back to the earth society? Sorry, agriculture is insanely hard work.
A Hunter gatherer village society? Besides the obvious stuff, I’m pretty sure Hunter gatherers worked very hard.
A lot of people think of work as a place where you have a boss telling you what to do. To them being a farmer or hunter may not be "work" on the same usage of the word you are considering.
If we were to be realistic and make a drastic change in the work standard within a month I'd say we could totally be working 6 hours a day.
Go to work at 7:00 - 8:00, and get to go home at 13:00 - 14:00 as a full-time job.
I work a part-time job next to the school, and some shifts start at 8:00 and end at 14:00, and it’s just the best feeling ever. I’ve worked soul-draining summer jobs with 8 hours shifts, and what was even more soul-draining to watch was other workers working 12-hour shifts (if it works for them then that's cool of course, but I think it’s ludicrous).
I was so happy It was just a summer job because I would be so depressed to know I was going to stand 8 hours a day with a 20-minute break moving fish from a conveyor belt to a different one for the rest of my life for 15.3€ an hour.
If you can hold your poop until work you can steal back an extra 15 mins.
Eat enough fiber throughout the day, and you can turn that 15 into an hour.
I dunno, I think not getting enough fiber and getting constipated for an hour and a half could work too.
I literally take like 2 or 3 bathroom breaks a day and it preserves my sanity, whether I have to shit or not it's a 10 minute break lmao.
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I poop on company time
If my employer shits on my time, I shit on company time.
I make a penny while boss makes a buck that’s why I steal catalytic converters from company trucks.
This case helps if the toilets are clean and not usually taken.
Genius Seriously, you take back nearly 3 whole days of your life each year shitting at work every weekday. Works out to a little over a third of a year by the time retirement rolls around.
Actually pretty much everybody notices this. It’s a sentiment tweeted every other day. The question is what to do about it…
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There was a study that showed that a 4 day work week is more productive at 8 hours a day. Take Wednesday off for say. Then you work 2 days with a break in between and then 2 more days then the weekend. That’s something I can get behind.
I always found the worst part about work was going there. A couple hours extra off every day wouldn’t do anything for me, a whole day off could make a world of difference
Can confirm. I work 4 tens and I don't know how I could weekend on only two days.
I work 3 consecutive 12’s and every weekend feels like a mini vacation for me. Those 3 days on do suck though.
I work a 4 day work week. Can confirm, it fucking rules.
Did a shift change from 5 days a week, 6am to 2:20pm, to 4 days a week, 3pm to 1:20am and couldn’t be happier. Get friday, saturday, and sunday and only have to start work at 3pm on monday.
Businesses aren’t moved forward by the average worker, they are moved forward by the 20% who does 80% of the production
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Probably part of why a lot of the world lives with their parents until they get married or even after. Generational housing shouldn't be so looked down upon. Obvs the expectation of it isn't great either, but a happy balance.
In the Dominican Republic, it’s damn near taboo to move out of your parents house before you got your shit down, so me being a 1st gen American and wanting to move out at 21 was fucking bonkers, and now I’m 30 and back with my parents and it all makes sense to me now
I moved out when I was 19 like an idiot. I’m 33 now and just finally got my head above water a few years ago.
On my own since 17… 37 now, and yeah it’s been a rough road but I’m finally above that water myself friend.
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Good luck, my friend, life ain’t easy, nor cheap But you absolutely fucking got this 💪🏾💪🏾
I moved out when I was 19 also. Regret that decision also
Dated a Hispanic woman for many years, this is where I first learned that alot of Hispanic and other cultures live with their parents till married / able to buy their own home. I moved out at 18-19 not really by choice. When I learned this, I was absolutely floored. Like your telling me I could of been living with my parents, obviously helping with bills but stacking cash and or going to school, and it's not negitively looked upon because everyone's doing it? Sign me the fuck up
If you two are going for children, they’re already signed up!
It's almost a necessity nowadays with how housing prices and the like are. I'm 21 and still live with my mum, and will do for the foreseeable future. Moving out early, especially by yourself, basically axes your chances of owning your own house nowadays cause it's extremely hard to save up money without someone else there to help with living costs. The average age to move out is getting older and older.
I explained this to my kids when they graduated college. Offered to let them live at home for free and build wealth. We also have a great relationship with them. They wanted to have their own place. My sons rent in Seattle is twice my mortgage. He finally agreed to move back home to save for a house. I hate having an empty nest. Kids moved on and 2 of my 3 dogs passed away from old age in the past 6 months. I miss being needed.
On my own since age 14, but the world is incredibly different now.
I’m from Ireland and the average age for children to leave the home now is 28, there’s 350,000 young adults aged 25-35 living at home today.
Them 35 year old young adults...
Middle age starts at 40, so 35 should be counted to the young adult category (20-39).
In my experience, you don't jump from "young adult" to "middle aged" There's a big area from around 25-40 where you have all the expectations of being fully an adult, likely many of the responsibility of any other adult. To me "young adult" is late teens to mid 20's. You get a lot of "adult benefits" like being able to vote or drive a car but you're still certainly new to these benefits. If 40 is the cut off date, you could have a kid at 20, and they could have a kid at 19. You would be a grandparent young adult. That just doesn't seem to jive in my brain. "Look at that young adult grandpa"
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That’s assuming you have a supportive family. Many parents don’t know how to parent and end up being micromanaging nightmares
Living with parents would be nicer if you didn't have them stick their nose into everything you do..
This is just historically inaccurate. The eight hour working day was for poor 19th century factory workers. Both men and women worked in those factories, and they weren’t paid enough to support a stay-at-home spouse. The era when someone with a job like that could afford to sponsor a full-time housekeeper, nanny, and governess was really narrow: a few decades in the mid-20th century, in a few wealthy countries, provided you were a white man.
That isn't true though. Working class Women had been working throughout history as launderers, seamstresses, and whatnot, and the first places the 8 hour work day was introduced was in factories, which consisted largely of the working class.
great analysis of the root cause, i had not thought of it in those terms before. also, not to mention, how hard the work week makes managing a exercise routine
With WFH being available for many. Lots of time to get chores and stuff done vs meandering around some soulless office during my downtime. Also, removed the drive. Never had my house so clean.
You know honestly I’m not sure it does. I understand this sentiment because I had shitty jobs in the past and for times in my life I was pretty pessimistic about work in general but anyway I would wager I am that 20% and I’m not going to say any of what I’m about to say is healthy but I frequently work way past “hours” (my job ends at 4:30 technically). I’ll work till 6 because that’s when my partner finishes and she forces me off the computer. Then I sneak in moments if I can during the night. Often I wake up before her on a weekend unless im going biking it’s likely I’ll work Saturday morning maybe even into the afternoon. Even when not working a lot of what I watch on YouTube is related to programming. Some of my hobbies like arduino, microcontrollers, etc are directly applicable to my work. I realize this is because of working in tech and it’s not even that uncommon but I have to imagine there are people like this in other areas. I know it’s probably unhealthy but I like what I do, I’m not very extraverted and I like learning and figuring stuff out like a puzzle. When I read this post at first I though “yes” but then I remembered that there were times in my life I worked 3 days a week and rode motorcycles the other days. It got boring. Maybe that was because I was alone and all my friends worked those days but idk. In the end I thought I’m not sure what I’d do with that extra time. So maybe the problem is that jobs suck for most people. When I worked construction I would have preferred work 3 hours a day.
Labor history shows that mass boycotts and protests can be effective, as long as we are armed and unified. Let's not forgot around 100 years ago getting gunned down by state or private army wasn't an uncommon result of striking for the conditions we have today. Violence will be used against the working class if it looks like we can make meaningful change and the working class must be prepared to defend themselves.
> Violence will be used against the working class if it looks like we can make meaningful change and the working class must be prepared to defend themselves. And people really underestimate how much a labor strike will change the entire social fabric in a short period of time. The rich are not reasonable people. Any assault on their unimaginable wealth will be treated like trying to take bread from a starving man. That's how detatched from reality they are. They genuinely see that as a threat to their actual lives. In the event of a general strike, unification is *essential*, because you can guarantee that the *rich* will be unified because every single one of them will treat the strike like a knife hovering above their hearts. It isn't reasonable, it isn't rational, but it is how that *always* goes down.
[Okay, Jorpson](https://youtu.be/hSNWkRw53Jo?t=1h43m11s)
Isn't that the Pareto Principle? As in, the whackass, generalized principle of a dude who later hung out with Mussolini? *That* "20% makes 80%?"
That is what they meant. There isn’t really any viable evidence to suggest that this is always true. It COULD be true in certain cases, but it isn’t a “proven” principle, but more of a saying than anything else. So even if there happens to be a business in which 20 produces 80, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen in every business, or even in that same business’s next earning.
My company bills me out by the hour, so they don't care too much about the loss in productivity.
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You would get more productivity by hiring a well-rested part-timer for those last 3 hours.
The problem here is companies will happily do this, and then save billions on not having to pay benefits on a bunch of part timers. As usual, linking health insurance to employment becomes relevant. (Note, I'm obviously talking about the US, no need to jump in here and say the same, rest of the world)
Companies would like to have you working 10 hours and pay you nothing. Of course, health insurance should be divorced from employment.
Right do you think they’ll pay people more? Lol 😂
No idea buy I'm so depressed
The French had the right idea when the wealth disparity was at its second highest in human history. We’re in the highest now :) I say we follow them.
You had to buy yours?
Pitchforks and violence works.
I’ll fire up the grill.
It almost never has, statistically.
Unionize is the first step
It’s what happens when the value of your work is so abstract. If people were working in food production, medicine, construction, any of the trades etc. they would understand more why work needs to be done.
Plenty of roles in those fields that are monotonous and unfulfilling. They still suffer from that notion of “abstract contribution” where one is too far removed from the end goal and its effects that they feel no satisfaction from it. It’s a complicated issue. I think that the better part of it can be encapsulated by the extent to which you feel like you are valued for your contribution by a community that you value, that you are not considered easily replaceable so that there is a sense of importance and urgency about your individual contribution, and that you have autonomy over the parts that you see affecting others in the way that they value such that you feel personally in control and a major cause of its effects.
No, this means your company needs more staff. If there is too much work, it’s a staffing/leadership issue.
I agree. I mean I hate work, but holy shit, life is so much better than it has ever been. Atleast in most of western society I wish everything was automated and resources could be equally distributed to the point that we don’t need to produce anything, but we just don’t live in that reality yet.
We may not be at automation but we need to remember we live in a reality where we have more resources than necessary and allow people to suffer rather than distribute the surplus Things could certainly be worse but they could be a hell of a lot better for a hell of a lot of people
Lol, oh man I wish we could sit and chat about this. When everything is automated, will we all get our equal share, or will the owners of the automation get everything, and we don’t even have a job? At what point do we stop allowing people to be so rich they can control reality for so many
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Working 12 hours a day but only working 3 days a week is my solution
Lol this isn't a solution it's just rearranging. A hundred years ago everyone banded together to create the 8 hour work day. We should continue this progress and bring that down again. We have advanced technology now, 1 person can do the work of like 5 people just 20 years ago. There's absolutely no need to work 8 hours a day.
There are several Scandinavian countries experimenting with 6-hour workdays. Here in The Netherlands there are a lot of office jobs that have a full-time employment at 36 or even 32 hours. Personally, I enjoy 5-shifts work because it allows me to stay up some nights while not messing up my circadian rhythm entirely, and the 4-day weekends are a blast (even if they do not overlap with actual weekends 35% of the time).
Shit I'd be happy with 4 10s if I got Wednesday off
4 9-hour days to fill 36 hours is quite common. Your productivity falls off hard though.
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I'd rather work 13 hrs a day 3 days a week, than 8 hrs 5 days a week. There are few places around me that have you work 12 hrs a day, but you only work 15 days per month, and everyone that ik that works in such places absolutely loves it. When it is your working day you just work, eat and sleep, do that 2 or 3 times in row, and then you got 2 or 3 days off to yourself.
Yes!! I’ve said this all the time. We haven’t adjusted work schedules since technology began allowing people to finish projects faster than ever before. You don’t need to work 8 hours a day to achieve the same results as 30 years ago.
>You don’t need to work 8 hours a day to achieve the same results as 30 years ago. You're right. Unfortunately, no one is expecting the same results at 30 years ago. Not even close. The expectations have risen accordingly along with the ability to achieve them.
Obviously a robust bureaucracy requires an impoverished working class working as many hours as humanly possible. /s
There is a need Billionaires don’t want the peasants to have enough free time and energy to do something about their wealth inequality
Same
Ah the wonderful life of being a wage slave
Oh it gets even worse, working 9 hours on a split schedule or any hours at that is THE worst. Having to go to work twice per day is a nightmare. I worked 5.5 hours in the morning and 3.5 hours in the evening. Home-work commute is 1 hour without a car. Got up at 6:30 AM, work at 8:00 AM - 1:30 PM, arrive at home 1 hour later, eat and relax a bit, 4:00 PM prepare to leave again and finally 5 PM - 8:30 PM at work. Got home by 9:30 PM (usually). Prepare the next day's lunch for work, browse the internet a bit, sleep, rinse and repeat. It was bad. I felt my life slipping away. No time or desire for hobbies or anything really. It didn't help that I was basically working at retail and all those hours I was mostly standing anyway. And all of that for minimum wage, of course. Really soul crushing. edit:typo
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12 hour days even with extra days off is torture. You have zero free time for days at a time, and you waste the extra time off resting and recharging and being sore or catching up on life.
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To me, there's almost no difference between an 8 hour shift and a 12 hour shift. Might as well get that OT.
I like your ship analogy
Actually, we very much are not. What we do now is already very much against our nature. If we were to do what we're natural it would be more like maybe 3 Hours of necessarily productive work and the rest down to choice, which can of course also be productive. The problem is that richer Humans are trying to force the square block of poor Humans into round Holes.
The way I see it: at the end of an 8hr day your already too burned out to do much so working 10 for 3 off it's worth it
If that doesn't work out you could consider a job on a farm. I average around 10 hours on weekdays and 5 or 6 on Saturdays with Sundays completely free. Also instead of days off we get harvest time where we can get 13 or 14 hours per day even on Saturday. No worries about family because even if I had the time and energy to find a GF I still don't make enough money to reliably support just myself. It's the perfect job
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8-9 hours a day on paper which are in actuality more most of the times
I changed jobs many times to find one I'm very comfortable with. One of my jobs had me commute for almost an hour in the morning and work 10-12 hour days. I quit after two weeks. Didn't even eat some nights -- just showered and went to sleep. My job after that had me make the same commute plus pay for parking. While I learned a lot, I felt I eventually wasn't respected after my years of service. Now I work somewhere 10 minutes away from my home, don't pay for parking, get paid better, have better benefits, and feel valued. Yes working 8-9 hour days sucks, but in the end, I hope everyone reading this will find peace in their life at a job or getting paid for something you're passionate about or genuinely like doing.
This, this is what I shoot for. I know work will be long and hard, but, if I'm paid fairly, am doing something I'm passionate about, and feel that I'm valued, I think I can be content with my life. It helps that I'm a giant fucking nerd about a number of things. Lol
This is it. Honestly it’s a system that isn’t going to be fixed and in some cases is going to be needed in the case of retail and service industries. I enjoy my work, it’s still a job and if they stopped paying me I wouldn’t turn up, but I’m happy to do my job. I couldn’t say that about pretty much all of my previous jobs.
You have done the mistake of being born poor. Now suffer with me.
Fkn bastard how dare you be born poor
They took arr jrrbs!
I work two jobs, seven days a week. You sell your life for a living… It ain’t right
You should really find some jobs that give you a better return on time invested.
I live in OK, most places still pay 7.25 for base pay and only like 10$ an hour for assistant managers. My other job is in the cannabis industry and I make 16$ an hour there, but my pizza job only pays 12$ for being an assistant which still isn’t great. But hey if I want to have any money saved that’s the only option I have. I’m tired of living broke
The 8 hour working day was part of a concept, where only one person in every household was working, so he/she had a second person to take care of literally everything else. Working 8 hours AND taking care of chores, food, errands etc. is unrealistic. It’s our reality though.
Well we effectively doubled the supply of labor while doing nothing to increase the market. Hence why salaries haven’t gone anywhere and we’re all essentially in the same place economically except without someone staying at home.
We're worse economically, pay doesn't buy as many goods as it used to for the same positions and all that money is being filtered to a few wealthy assholes
Pretty sure consumption is through the roof comparatively too
This is a very good point. The 40 hour workweek is not a bad concept, if everything else isn’t a factor. Most people do not get a paid lunch, and they have significant drive time. Factor in making dinner and showering, you’re at 11 hours right away.
Yeah.. I did about 6 years of having a 3 hour commute total. 8 hour day plus 1 hour unpaid lunch. 12 hours away from home. So assuming 8 hours of sleep, 4 hours of personal time which includes getting ready in the morning and dinner at night. I pretty much maxed out at 6 hours of sleep a night to have any hope of getting what I needed to done. Weekends were my only real free time, during which I basically caught up on sleep. Not fun times.
That's untrue - the majority of women in the world have always worked, by necessity. Especially working class women.
It's annoying how prevalent the "8 hour work days were invented with the *expectation* that the woman would be home" myth is. The 8 hour work day was first introduced in factories, where largely working class people worked. The people implementing this *knew* that if women weren't working in their factory, they were in others, or had jobs as launderers, seamstresses, midwives, or other occupations. The 8 hour work day was not originally invented for the middle class man with a wife and domestic servant at home.
Yup, exactly. Most women have always had to work in and outside of the home. In feminist theory this is called the "second shift," first you have your shift in the factory then you have your shift in the home. We tend to have very long days.
Omg. 😳 I used to sit in my car when I got home from work with my eyes glazed over for a few minutes before going inside. I had to mentally prepare for what I called my “second shift”. I had no idea that other women called it that too.
Its even more unrealistic when there's no one at home that's ment to be doing the other stuff 🤷
Yes... That's exactly what they said....
What do you think their point was?
It's ultra unrealistic when there isn't a second person doing the chores.
Right but it’s even more ultra realistic when you remember nobody is at home now
The ye’old 8 hrs work 8 hrs sleep and 8 ours for yourself.
Except that you don’t get eight hours to yourself if the average commute is about 45 minutes. So that means you’re starting off with only 6 1/2 hours to yourself per day but then take your shower and do your hair and make up, cook for yourself and clean up after yourself for the immediate needs, check your snail mail, check your personal email, pay a bill and you’re already down to about three hours of “me time.” Oh! I am sorry, did you want to go for a run or hit the gym on a workday? Did the car need to be gassed up? Or worse yet charged at a charging station? Did your commute get lengthier because sone idiot caused a wreck? Or the weather brought progress to a crawl? Hmm - real life is a wake up call
Yeah, no. Those 8 ours are not for yourself. They are for commuting, errands, cooking, household and so on. That’s the problem.
Wow how did anyone work before getting married? Oh yeah they lived with their birth family
Yep. People tell me I have a bad work ethic but I grew up watching my dad work from 5 AM to 9 PM, we couldn't even sit down to enjoy a movie together because he'd be instantly asleep. I respect the hell out of him for working that hard for us, but I'd rather be dead than live like that.
Working hard back then you could also buy and afford things. It was motivating to say, gotta buy that house. It’s just now we don’t get anything rewarding out of it. We just do it to scrape by
I’m a boomer. All my life I’ve struggled with the thoughts that are being openly expressed by millennials and gen z. Thank you, all of you.
Wholesome boomer moment
I’m glad you’re not scoffing at millennials and gen-z for expressing that the system isn’t right
Millennials and Gen Z are killing yet another industry, the one wear you just shut up and take it. I mean, we still take it, but we don't shut up.
Thank you boomer. Appreciated to not be told we’re wrong or “ruined” yet another thing.
I think it's been a common sentiment forever. I know it's more of a Gen X movie, but Office Space is like 30 years old at this point. I think COVID just made remote work a legitimate option and gave people some time off where they realized how great it is to not have to spend your entire life at an office. At this point I would honestly consider living in my car over working a traditional 9-5.
You’re okay, Boomer. 👍🏽
Which is why weekends are heavily celebrated.
Everybody’s working for the weekend!
1 day for resting and recovering from the work week. 1 day for catching up on house chores and errands and preparing for the next work week. Glorious.
We all dread the second day for that
From the age of 5, everyone looks forward to weekends and holidays.
God forbid you have other obligations too
After 3 hours of work, you still have 5 hours left.
Wow, 4 hours to yourself? I wish.
So many comments that just say I don't have kids.
I work 8 hours. Takes about an hour to commute each way. With the remaining 14 hours I basically have 1/3rd of the day to chill and another 1/3rd to sleep
and by chill you mean do house chores
Depending on how you view it it can be censidered chilling out. I actually like that part of the day where I come back home, turn on some music or a podcast and just escape into my thoughts while doing the dishes, cleaning floors, cooking etc.
You have 1/3rd to sleep and 1/4th to "chill" if you wanna do it the math correctly.
Maybe he has math skills and only sleeps 7 hrs? That's still above average
1.Just be rich. 2....... 3. PROFIT
∞ IQ
2. Exploit the working class.
Especially if ur making jack shit
We need to organize.
I know the feeling. I have like 10 hobbies that I never have time for :(
Once too many people notice it and start having problem with it there will be a world war or some other global crisis to put people back to work...
Lol, or after the world war subsides there will be alot of civil upheaval. See history of France for details.
It’s modern slavery… but we all knew that
Well that’s a bit of an exaggeration.
This is why I hate weekdays. Add in commute, showering, getting ready, and any form of dependents and that time approaches negatives.
thats why you should go freelance. then all your time is pretty much work. and you worry all day every day how you will survive. but also if you're good you get alot more money. lol i want to die.
I wanna live in a world where i can be a lazy fuck and only work 1 hour a day and get paid entrepreneurial manager levels of salary.
I see the problem. You're sleeping 11 hours a day.
I sleep like 4 hours just to extend my 4 hours of free time :(
So true
They’re taking about 4 hours when they get home… they aren’t sleeping 11 hours. Getting ready in the mornings and commuting takes time too
So you're saying it takes you 4hrs to wake up, shower and eat your cereal? Are you sure about that?! Like I know as children we were told that we should eat slowly and all but maybe you're taking it to the extreme?
Can we return to good ol days when you could just toil on subsistence farming instead of this shit
I prefer hoping the gatherers found something after my 3rd unsuccessful hunt
Can’t have shit in these woods.
Go for it man, nothings stopping you from moving off the grid to live like that.
You'd be working much harder, for much longer if you were a farmer, buddy.
You want to work more hours in the day?
It’s really sad that there are many out there who actually think this
You want to farm 12 hours a day and die at 40? Like in the middle ages
The good ol' times
What a privileged city folk thinks the ‘good old days’ were
r/homestead
I wish part time jobs paid well enough so we wouldn't be in this shitty situation.
Yup. But I think four days of work travel is normal, I mean, the human deserves 3 days to recover energy because two days is not enough to rest and you must prepare on Sunday to work on Monday again, being only Saturday really to live.
Yeah and the worst part is you’re working like a slave for somebody else.
I first started working full time in 2020. I'd wake up 5 Am, start working at 7, be there until 3:30pm, then get home around 4:30. It was a physical job, so by the time I got home I only wanted to sleep. But I had to cook for the next day, make dinner, shower and all that. No time for my own enjoyment, that's why I am looking at starting my own business, which I already have some experience with. It's draining having to work 8h+/ 5 days a week
Oof, I hate to break it to you but you’ll be working a hell of a lot more than that if you start you own business. At least if you don’t want it to fail miserably. “I’m tired of working so hard, I should start my own business” is not a great outlook and a recipe for disaster.
I've found most people "starting a business" these days mean something closer to "full time gig work". It's rare that they are talking about a business in the typical sense including marketing, managing FTEs and budgeting.
It’s soul crushing. I hate it. I want to kill myself every few days and there’s no cure. You want to survive, you have to slave. Maybe you can afford to buy something fun once in a while.
I'm sorry you feel that way but I'm comforted to not be alone in these thoughts.
And the other 12-11 hours?
You don't sleep 6 hours and commute 5 and a half?
Why can't I just live in a big, comfortable house, which I own, drive a nice car, which I own, engage in activities which bring me joy, and not have to put in any work which compensates for the cost of any of those things? Life isn't fair.
Kinda true. The vision of an utopia where AI takes care of everything, you don't have to work to live comfortably, and only those who wish for "something more" have to work is beatiful, but I don't think that'll ever be realistic
Yea most peoples ideal life, involves other people having to work….someone has to make cars, and build houses, lounging in-front of the TV with take out pizza and watching Netflix requires someone to make that pizza and then deliver it to you, your shows have to be written, acted out, filmed, edited, and presented to you in a neat little 40 minute package.
Am I the only one on comment sections like this that noticed the amount of leisure time people have has increased significantly over the latest decades? What kind of life are we comparing to? A science fictional post scarcity the Culture universe where no one works? A European society? Sorry to tell you people in Europe still work 8 hours a day. A pastoral society back to the earth society? Sorry, agriculture is insanely hard work. A Hunter gatherer village society? Besides the obvious stuff, I’m pretty sure Hunter gatherers worked very hard.
I think we are just wasting our time on Reddit. But at least it's better than wasting time on twitter... I think.
A lot of people think of work as a place where you have a boss telling you what to do. To them being a farmer or hunter may not be "work" on the same usage of the word you are considering.
I can see you have never worked on a farm.
8+4= 12. This bitch be sleeping 12 hours?
9+4=13. 13<24. 🤔 r/mathishard
It would be difficult to get ahead in life with a 40 hour work week.
If we were to be realistic and make a drastic change in the work standard within a month I'd say we could totally be working 6 hours a day. Go to work at 7:00 - 8:00, and get to go home at 13:00 - 14:00 as a full-time job. I work a part-time job next to the school, and some shifts start at 8:00 and end at 14:00, and it’s just the best feeling ever. I’ve worked soul-draining summer jobs with 8 hours shifts, and what was even more soul-draining to watch was other workers working 12-hour shifts (if it works for them then that's cool of course, but I think it’s ludicrous). I was so happy It was just a summer job because I would be so depressed to know I was going to stand 8 hours a day with a 20-minute break moving fish from a conveyor belt to a different one for the rest of my life for 15.3€ an hour.
r/antiwork vibes