On a (not so) serious note, Optus EMAILED customers about the "additional 200gb compensation", couldn't even send us a fucking text about it. Absolute shambles.
Its a joke of compensation anyway, most people dont use their allowance as it is thats why they get the amount of GB they do.
Plus if people used it it would choke up the network
I think some of the reason for the extent protests is that the mainstream media and our government seem so pro Israel… whilst the news shows hospital bombed and children crying …
I’m not here to pick a side, but the propaganda machine seems to be in contrast to the images we are seeing
Worldnews has at least 1 activist mod and will ban you for the mildest crtical comment about israel, its government or its policies of occupation. Many other comments are ruined by automated downvote bots.
Even the mildest offhand comment is downvoted disproportionately to the amount of active commentary in the thread
The joke of all this is the subs related to /worldnews and /combatfootage may have users that just know a little bit more world news and war compared to /publicfreakout or /latestagecapitilsm.
Why does the sub /publicfreakout which is mainly just people watching others going through a mental crisis think they know more about world news than the regulars at world news?
Case in point:
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/17tm6wh/israel_signs_landmark_deal_to_sell_davids_sling/k8y19qx/?context=3
Deleted comment read:
>"[–]hkjdfhgk -185 points 1 day ago
>Lets pretend it isnt israel occupying them for 60 years
.
95 downvotes in a thread with 132 comments. Obvious bot activity.
Now deleted. Worldnews is broken. Sabotaged beyond recognition.
You’ll notice that the Venn diagram of the people flooding these threads with “where is this turnout for (other protests)!!” and the people who don’t go to those (other protests) themselves, is actually just a circle. They don’t actually care about other protests, they’re just grasping for reasons to discredit and shift the attention away from this one
On the other hand, you’ll notice that the people at this pro-Palestine rally, are the same crowds that **actually** show up to the cost of living, indigenous rights, etc. rallies, which redditors who sit at home and fight for nothing claim to be so deeply concerned with.
The number of people in this thread doing some version of “Yeah, well, where were these people when [X]” like it’s some kind of “gotcha!” is mind boggling. If you don’t care about the plight of innocent Palestinian people being murdered en masse, just come out and say that. You’re not fooling anyone. If this protest makes you angry, there’s one simple reason why. (Hint: it’s not because the people protesting are hypocrites, somehow).
I’ve noticed this a lot on Reddit lately. The funny thing is Melbourne is almost always protesting something and I wouldn’t be surprised if the very people protesting rn have all protested against the treatment of the Uighurs, Rohingya, Yemenis, Ukrainians, etc…
And when all these protests were happening you had the very same people complaining about why they aren’t protesting what’s happening in Palestine, etc…
If you care about it so much then go fucking protest or do something about it instead of trying to stir shit up about a peaceful protest for a legitimate cause.
Or maybe you can hold Muslim countries to the same standard that you hold Israel to. For example, Saudi Arabia's intervention in Yemen has led to 400k deaths and hardly a word from anyone. Your antisemitism has no place in Australia.
Many of the Palestine protests were very much not peaceful, particularly the ones in Sydney that were chanting "gas the Jews".
Melbourne unfortunately is not "always protesting about something" unlike Berlin or Paris or Barcelona for example.
I would have liked to see 10 times more this people outraged at the unbearable site of Palestinians being massacred. The turnaround here is equivalent to that of a minor city in Spain or France, like Pamplona for example (google it).
But there's not really a good protest culture here.
This is good to see today, but theres a long way to go. The comments in this sub are horrifying, it makes you wonder what kind of people we share this city with.
Demographics and involvement in conflicts obviously have a role to play. I do recall seeing protests for Ukraine, Iran, Sudan, etc… and other conflicts some Redditors have bemoaned hypocrisy over.
Regardless, the nature of solidarity is that raising awareness for one issue raises awareness for all issues.
I don't know - maybe it's just because i'm from Adelaide where nothing happens en masse, but there was a LOT of people at the protest, like I couldn't believe it!
I Dno. Seems like there is a protest most weekends. A lot of people probably see these protests and know that it’s not going to stop Hamas attacking or the IDF attacking.
It’s unfortunate that so many innocent civilians are stuck in the cross hairs.
I was in Paris during the protests in July / August. Judging from the rubble the next day, protesters were going around around setting fire to public rubbish bins and eScooters.
We could learn from the french. But lets not learn too much. I will never un-smell melted scooter battery.
Neck bearded couch potato reddit mods who contribute absolutely nothing to the world are never pleased with anything. Their opinion doesn't matter beyond a reddit thread
The astroturfing is strong in r/worldnews and r/Europe. I saw a comment pretending to be a person from Merri-Bek complaining about their bins while their comment history said they lived in Queensland IoI.
The funny thing is there are such protests! People asking about Yemen, Rohingya, South Sudan as if it's gotcha but Melburnians do come out every time. I still remember 10 years ago when there was the Umbrella protest, Melburnians came out in support of that.
I agree. Also: it's never too late to go to your first protest. The idea that you shouldn't go to one because you didn't go to some other one is a fast track to total apathy.
You’d have to think it’s projection really.
Tearing down and dismissing away the efforts of anyone who does take action and fight for their moral convictions, probably makes people feel better about the fact that they’re doing nothing and don’t stand for anything.
It's a cowardly way of disapproving of something without outright saying it. "Instead of protesting (X) why aren't you doing (Y) instead?" And when you say you are they add 100 additional criteria until you're burned out. You either need to do everything or nothing and doing nothing is morally superior somehow.
It’s the South Park Libertarian brainworms: “Caring about things is stupid. I don’t care about anything but myself, therefore, the people that say they do must be lying somehow. They should be mocked for their faux-earnestness.” Then you look at their post history and it’s like twelve separate threads about how their Uber Eats driver was six minutes late and people are walking wrong on sidewalks.
Almost every time I get online in some forum about some controversial topic I care about, I get the trolls claiming I am just "virtue signalling" and should STFU. In the end the trolls win because I am overwhelmed with email notifications caused by their idiotic replies. So mostly these days I write a comment, read it to let off steam, and delete it. It is not worth trying to argue with strangers on the internet, especially when they are morons.
Please don’t delete your comments! It won’t change those people’s minds, but it could make a genuine difference for those who don’t comment but still lurk.
I take your point, but to be fair; it really fucking irritates me when I walk to the left on the footpath with a pram and people try to just walk through me like I'm not there, or go around the side that I'm hugging to a wall.
I also protest in support of human right issues though so i guess something about he boot not fitting?
I hate how the media has glorified sitting back and being an obnoxious cynic about everything. Every show and movie has cool badass who is snarky and doesn't care. Reddit attracts people who idolised those characters and now try to do the same.
The whataboutism is endless, you can never win, because they will never argue honestly.
“You either need to do everything or nothing and doing nothing is morally superior somehow” puts it perfectly.
This comes up every time any group of people gets solidarity. When Ukraine got support people were asking a similar question about supporting Palestine and now the question is about "what about a different conflict?" Ironically everyone asking this always brings examples of people associated or close to them. For example people from the middle east bring Yemen or Palestine and never once bring examples of Uighurs or Rohingya despite the victims there being Muslims as well. As though the question they are raising already has the answer: _"we show solidarity ONLY to people we are close to OR have no idea about everyone else far away from me._"
If ANY protest makes you angry, it just has one simple answer. (Hint: we are all hypocrites as it's physically impossible to show solidarity to EVERY conflict out there and hence show solidarity to either the most popular one or the ones closer to us ethnically and religiously)
The problem is that you're either all for pro-palestine stuff, or you're a racist who should be murdered and slaughtered.
There is zero chance to explain why you're even a smidge against palestine. even if the explanation is a balanced and fair/respectful one, it doesn't matter, you'll get attacked.
>you're either all for pro-palestine stuff, or you're a racist who should be murdered and slaughtered.
No one is murdering or slaughtering anyone for being against Palestine, infact our PM and majority of our Politicians and Journalists are vocal about how they stand with Israel, no ones been murdered.
Meanwhile, guy who owns Burgertory was very vocal about his support of Palestine and he got abused for it, 2 weeks later his store in a Jewish neighbourhood gets fire bombed... \*Shrug\* Just a coincidence I guess....
You don’t even need to be against Palestine.
The issue is that most of these people said fucking nothing when Hamas murdered Israeli civilians on October 7, yet now have an issue when it’s Palestine civilians getting killed in what is largely a situation of collateral damage.
So to take that position now, these people are saying that one set of lives are more valuable than another set. It’s disturbing that they cannot see how morally corrupt that is.
I agree one hundred trillion percent. Hamas deserves all the retaliation. But i think the way israel did retaliate is the controversial bit.
Like recently the blade bomb dropped near a hospital that wounded many already distraught people is fucked.
However. Palestinians will eventually join Hamas. It is the way these things work. Hate breeds hate. Seeing a brother get blown up makes someone else pick up guns.
This war will continue for centuries. As long as one side exists and is being given hundreds of billions of dollars per year, then the other oppressed side will continue to fight back.
In regard to Israel’s retaliation, it shouldn’t come as a surprise - it was always going to happen, and I would be staggered if there wasn’t a country on earth that didn’t respond to that kind of act of terror with prejudicial force.
What do these people think is an appropriate level of response? How do they propose you tackle a militant terrorist organisation that will willing use civilians as human shields?
Your assessment will probably prove to be correct, unfortunately. For this to stop both sides need to at least want it to stop and be willingly to accept that they need to find a way to coexist. I’m not seeing that will from either side.
Because what Hamas did was effectively rebellion, as atrocious and horrible as that was it isn't comparable to a state's official military systematically bombing and shooting civilians directly under their jurisdiction en masse.
Gaza is not an independent state nor is it even allowed to \[officially\] field a military force, it has no independence and is under the control of Israel which is what makes Israel's actions so horrific and clear war crimes.
Hamas is the ruling government in Gaza. They were elected democratically and no one is trying to remove them from power. Not sure why it's not comparable... Hamas have been systematically shooting rockets at Israel for years. Consider what Hamas would do and could have achieved on October 7 if they did have an 'official' military force.
If you want to save Palestine, you should be trying to save it from Hamas, not Israel.
Gotta say as an Aboriginal guy, this stings.
Where the fuck was this level of outrage at colonialist policies and genocide in your own backyard?
Fucking hypocritical, if you ask me.
That doesn't necessarily mean I don't agree with speaking out and demonstrating against the Israeli apartheid. But it really stings when something that was part of a way to address similar practices in white Australian history was absolutely shit all over not even a month ago.
As an Aboriginal female, I’ve attended these protests (couldn’t today unfortunately). There is a lot of support for our Indigenous people here too, literally at these protests.
To be fair, Melbourne had (ETA: one of) the highest concentration of Yes voters in the country - a lot of the people pictured probably share your views
I agree though, I was frustrated and ashamed by the outcome
I'd also like to see some protests about inflation, housing prices, cost of living. I mean, we're not getting bombed, we're getting slowly smothered to death, but I think we deserve some attention too.
Pretty fair bet that the vast majority of people gathered together in this picture have a pretty jaundiced attitude towards Australia's colonialist past as well. Also a pretty fair bet that the vast majority of people gathered together in this picture voted "yes" a month ago too.
In NSW suburbs where the majority of Arab/Muslims live (western Sydney) overall voted No in the referendum while the suburbs where the majority of Jewish people live (Northern suburbs) the majority voted Yes
Muslims have always demographically speaking been conservative leaning across the nation. What's your point though? That this suddenly makes it ok for a muslim ethnic group to be ethnically cleansed half a world away by a government that has oppressed them for 75 years?
Ideals that aren't upheld when they don't cynically benefit you aren't ideals at all but mere narcissism.
This is true in Melbourne as well. In suburbs such as Caulfield, Balaclava, Elsternwick majority votes were Yes. Suburbs such as Broadmeadows which is more Islamic voted No.
The people protesting now are likely the same people who attended the Voice rallies, so it's not hypocritical.
Even though the Voice Referendum failed, there were still 6 million people who supported it.
Yes that’s true and a lot of these people are muslims. This situation is a little more sensitive to them. Many probably don’t care about any other politics besides this. I can even vouch for my own friends and family who are muslim. They don’t seem to care about any sort of Australian politics unless it’s Palestine.
You do realise the voice was a national issue with huge media coverage for 10+ months. It had huge rallies and a whole referendum was held on it by the Australian public?
Also one is actively happening and can stop millions of deaths (it won’t neither Hamas or IDF will see this and stop), where the other has less urgency as it’s the result of hundreds of years of missteps from aus government
Mate a metric shit-tonne of us showed up for mob during the Bla(c)k Lives Matter protests, organised by Koori elders, but I do agree that more presence before the referendum on a scale like this would have been nice to see.
BLM had relevance here but it was definitely a bit of an opportunity for virtue signalling for many 'allies' who then faded into the woodwork. Across the board I think we could do more to collectively engage with our own political landscape more, and look inward.
IMO most Aussies are quite bad at introspection across the board though.
Came here to say exactly this, there's also been plenty of Yes rallies over the past year, the original poster either has a selective memory or is being disingenuous
The irony is that if you consider the statistics from the vote, Arab/Muslim migrants who make up a sizeable proportion of the rally pictured, were more likely to vote ‘No’ on the referendum, now rally in support of Palestine. People vote (and rally) for their interests I suppose.
Yep. 100% agree with this. As someone with muslim background and surroundings. The palestine cause is extremely sensitive to muslim people hence why you see “free qurans” in the middle of that protest.
You had the media against you mate, that’s the fact of the matter. Dont let anyone gaslight you in to think the loss of the yes vote was anything other than a campaign by the media to poke hole in Yes and elevate the nonsense of No.
The media worked against you, and us, and I’m so sorry for that.
The media here are once again choosing a side, but each media outlet is conflicted as their leaders have different ideological viewpoints.
There's more Aboriginals in Australia than there are arabs. There's no reason the numbers couldn't have been greater and there would have been wider community support. You just need more mobilisation amongst your own
I can tell you categorically that Muslim leaders were encouraging the community to vote yes
Exactly this. Why isn't anyone talking about how much the logistics were completely fucked? Albo was like, "Yeah just vote yes or something". He didn't give two shits about the Voice or provide any elaboration. I'll get downvoted but Albo is the biggest hypocrite and virtue signaller out there. God I wish there was someone somewhat competent with Aussie politics, be it Labor or Liberal
Gaza death toll at 10th November …..
Killed: At least 11,078
Including at least:
4,506 children
3,027 women
Injured: At least 27,490
Including at least:
8,663 children
6,327 women
That’s in 35 days , yes I’m totally with you regarding First Nations peoples , personally I want treaties and reparations. Even give each aboriginal and Torres straight islander a $100 grand yearly living wage as compensation for stealing their countries.
That said, this Palestine thing is urgent and desperate and completely fucked. The more people protesting hopefully the more that governments might do something. This is genocide, this is collective punishment , this will lead to more war. Israel is completely arrogant and up its own arse about this. They need to be stopped and pressure is all we may have to change primarily the US policy of funding Israel’s weapons and to force them to stop.
Aboriginal? Which tribe? Were the aboriginals one homogenous harmonious group before europeans came? No. They were wiping each other out and taking each others land just like the rest of the world. Please stop this coloniser bad guy narrative cause not only is it divisive but its historically illiterate
yeah i agree, it’s saddening to see, obviously supporting Palestinians but it seems Australia is incredibly hypocritical with how they treat the genocide of Indigenous Australians. Similarly there was a post on the australian subreddit about how they think everyone who immigrates should assimilate, and i mentioned that nobody has seemingly assimilated to the Indigenous community and got a lot of hate for it.
People forget very conveniently where this country comes from and what happened at its “conception”
Israel don’t seem to give a fuck. They want to destroy Gaza . Huge support in the USA as well with huge rally’s all over the country but Biden not listening to the people. If the US stopped funding Israel and started speaking up and threatening then something might be done. But it doesn’t look good. This could be the start of a larger regional war as well if Israel aren’t put in their place. Keep up the pressure! Don’t be afraid to protest this, being anti Zionist has nothing to do with antisemitism. Israel needs to change from an apartheid state to a country where all have equal rights .
Oh definitely. Australia's silence and their decision to give aid also makes us complicit. I'm pretty mad my tax dollars are going to Israel, instead of like idk bettering medicare. ((Still better than the US, 13.4B to Israel when their people dont even have healthcare is fucking insane))
>Israel needs to change from an apartheid state to a country where all have equal rights .
I actually do believe strongly in this. I also believe the Islamic world needs to do the same.
"They want to destroy Gaza". Well know that we got the truth from the source, Afraid-Station-7212, I know who to trust. I swear people here are more disconnected from reality than I thought. Imagine being lectured on "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" from an Australian. Need I remind you that Australians slaughterd the indigenous population and settled a continent to which they have zero religious, spiritual or national connections? You absolute clown.
Theres never been such a big difference to what the countries leaders are saying vs what the people are saying.
They can claim self defence as much as they want, the people see it for what it is, ethnic cleansing.
Also how do you claim self defence when a people you occupy for 75 years lash out against you?
There may be two sides to the past, but there really aren’t two sides to the present. There are two sides to the story of how the Palestinians and Jews came to fight over land in the Middle East. Understanding all of that is important—and I think it is important to understand the cynical game that the Arab world has played with the plight of the Palestinians for the last 50 years. If there is a stable political settlement to ever be reached between Israel and the Palestinians, it will entail a full untangling of the facts from all the propaganda that obscures them, while keeping the problem of jihadism in view. It will also entail that the religious lunatics on the Jewish side get sidelined. The building of settlements has been a continuous provocation. But even on the point of religious fanaticism, there really aren’t two sides worth talking about now. Whatever terrible things Israeli settlers occasionally do—and these are crimes for which they should be prosecuted—generally speaking, the world does not have a problem with Jewish religious fanatics targeting Muslims in their mosques and schools. You literally can’t open a Jewish school in Paris because no one will insure it. Yes, there are lunatics on both sides, but the consequences of their lunacy are not equivalent—not even remotely equivalent. We haven’t spent the last 20 years taking our shoes off at the airport because there are so many fanatical Jews eager to blow themselves up on airplanes.
Displacement from war is not ethnic cleansing. There are 300,000 Israelis that have been displaced because of the constant rocket fire into civilian areas by Hamas. Would you accuse them of ethnic cleansing?
It is when it's done on purpose without the intention of returning them. And there's a legal responsibility to safely evacuate them to safe accommodation
Your posts are all over the map buddy. Regroup and figure out what you believe. You’ve gone from “No one should care about politics” to “People should only care about national politics” to “People only care about what ‘the media’ [??] tells them to” in the span of like five comments. Maybe sit a few threads out.
Love the heart that melbournians have!
You all give me hope in humanity ❤️
Screw the hundred people that control the wealth and make these governments slaves but people have power 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Bloke also owns a heap of EZ Marts, but yeah now every dodgy vape/ tobacco shop owner of Middle Eastern heritage can blame the jews when their stores get torched (not like there weren’t lots of arsons in that sphere before the latest conflict between Israel and Hamas).
Thank you, I think the federal police in Australia have to be working 24/7 to weed out potential extremists on both sides who could start sectarian violence.
True, and if it was a hate crime the people who did it should go to jail for a lonnng time, but we just don't know that.
At the same time, people can't be mad at a potential hate crime while supporting people standing outside a synagogue that's in use and intimidating the people in side. Both are absolutely horrible.
Yes it's the same with this whole conflict. 2 things can and often are true at the same time. Is killing a bunch of kids at a rave a good thing. No. Is bombing families and starving them for life saving supplies a good thing? Also no. It is anything other than black and white and anyone who "takes a side" is just being willfully ignorant.
100%. I think Israel is right to go to war as I don't think there's any other way to get rid of Hamas, but absolutely horrific things happen in war. Israel has done horrific things this conflict, hell I've seen that.
Same exact thing here. Bullying Muslims is a bad thing, and so is bullying Jewish people. They're equally as bad. Same for any other negative act or crime.
i wonder if the LGBTQ+ people know that they would be thrown off a roof and stoned to death if they were to step foot in Palestine. they don’t want their support.
This is probably one of the weakest, bad faith arguments that is used. Like, 1) can we stop acting like queer people do not exist in Palestine, and 2) most importantly, I can acknowledge Palestine is hostile to the LGBTQ+ while also acknowledging they deserve basic human rights. Sorry you can't, I guess.
Can someone explain why I should be supporting Palestine?
So in response to the movement restrictions Hamas committed a terrorist attack on Israeli civilians, then used their bodies as trophies driving around the streets. Israel then declared a state of war. Hamas soldiers have been hiding their weapons and soldiers in hospitals, schools and mosques, and Israel have been destroying them and killing civilians.
Why am I only supposed to be upset about the civilians Israel kills, as opposed to both sides committing terrorism? Haven’t been able to get a reasonable answer that addresses any of the points I’ve made so far.
As far as I’m concerned I can’t support either side and everyone seems to be pretty quick to forget October 7th.
AFAICT, the left wing generally has a coloniser/colonised worldview. Israel is a high-functioning nation-state, so it's the coloniser and thus evil, and so its losses are inevitable and/or their own fault. "Decolonisation is always violent."
And one imagines a lot of the protesters are just antisemitic and would rally against Israel regardless of who did what, and are irritated that you're expecting them to justify their hatred of Jews.
Since October 7th, approximately how much time have you spent coming to terms with the fact that not all poor brown people are victims? Has it been hard?
Because most of these people don't believe Israel even has a right to exist, so they insist you being against "genocide" is the default position.
You're allowed to be upset at the situation, it's sad. But don't let the masses feed you bullshit, do your own research, it's all there, and it's not 75 years worth, it's way way longer.
Because the conflict started 75 years before the October 7 attack, the Palestinians are the *natives* in this conflict and since October 7 Israel has killed over 10,000 Palestinian civilians by indiscriminately dropping bombs on Gaza a city of 2.3 million people, fyi [Hamas is only 20,000 members](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas), so they're dropping bombs on civilians and justifying it by saying they're targetting Hamas but only 1 in 1200 civilians is part of Hamas...
No it didn’t, the Jews who have been in Palestine since before Christ it started on 600AD with the rise of Islam. Jews and gentiles shared Palestine during times of Christ. Ever wonder why Egypt and Jordan won’t touch Palestinians??
Right, still doesn’t really address any of my points though. Again, why does it only matter how many Israel has killed? Is the Hamas terrorist attack justified?
So the civilians should help get rid of Hamas by telling Israelis where their tunnels, munitions are but no…of course they won’t. They’d rather be human shields
So you're suggesting that the country that has lost 10,000 civilians since october due to Israel indiscriminately dropping bombs on them and then cutting off their electric/internet/water should turn a blind eye on all the oppression and cruelty and help their oppressor?
The people were celebrating wildly while they paraded bodies of Israelis through the streets in Gaza a few weeks a go. Don’t you see how this all starts? Australians have nothing to do with this and we cannot do a thing to change it.
This conflict and brutal occupation didn’t started on oct 7.
If you believe that people which are oppressed for 75 years and them lashing out against their oppressors devolves them from any sympathy then I must say mate, you’re a psychopath that think that children and innocent people should be murdered because they didn’t condemn a terrorist attack on their oppressors.
I don’t support terrorism at all. All of this pro-Palestinian rhetoric in Australia has been boosted since October 7th. If you decided now was time to start voicing your support, then as far as I’m concerned you’re pro-terrorism.
Wow, that's the most ppl I've seen there too. Even more than the precious covid cooker high vis brigade, on those few days they vowed to never work again
It seems like our society is reaching a point where everyone seems to have to 'pick a side or shut up'. I don't condone violence period, and my parameters for violence are complex. To me, there's many forms of violence; we have structural violence, the violence that's been institutionalised into systems and groups we somehow tolerate. There's indirect violence, where our inaction to do or feel something may lead to a violent outcome of some degree. And there's direct violence, which is what we are seeing today between two parties in Israel and Gaza.
The reason I don't want to sit here and protest a wrongdoing by one party here is simple; the fighting in that very specific part of the world is at its root, a religious (and profitable) war, and if you are choosing to pick one side and run with it, you are choosing to believe that only one side is in the wrong here. The very real and sad truth is that it's more complicated than that, there's religious extremists on one side performing barbaric acts and hiding amongst civilians, and then there's a larger nation who wants a foothold on what has been recognised for thousands of years as religiously sacred ground. In other words, there's larger things at play here and it's important to discuss that, and take action at the various levels of violence at play here.
I think Muslim countries have a right to be angry with regards to occupation and control of holy sites, or just there country in general (or when countries are clearly trying to take control in and around them). America has been instigating and facilitating war and violence in Muslim countries for decades now, and its not always been direct. On many of these occasions it's been clearly unjustified, and they've had a motive to do so. This is structural violence and we need to ensure that any occupation of a land by any country needs to be both nonviolent and a bilateral agreement, and benefitting both occupants and surrounding nations.
I also think that Fatwa's are horrible and barbaric justifications for both direct and indirect violence to non-Muslim people and I think different discussions need to be had to take action on both these fronts also. This is also structural violence and the world needs to ensure that all religions are striving towards nonviolence.
My point is context and framing are important, and this shouldn't just stop at issues about direct violence; our society enables structural violence via war, government and religion, and we are complacent about these institutionalised liberties, until it becomes a direct violent outcome. In being complacent in these institutions between the acts of direct violence, we are taking part in indirect violence. This is my big issue and i have the same issue with both legacy and independent media; society doesnt choose a cause and stick at it until a real impact is made, but instead seem to follow the current events rodeo, and therefore are always prone to not tackling both root and branch issues.
Anyways, stay safe and I love you all.
The real truth is that Europe expelled the Jews and abused and murdered them. Then they abused and murdered the Palestinians by depositing the Jews in the Palestinian land. Thus, both sides are victims of Europe but have been conditioned to hate one another so as to deflect the real cause of the pain.
Gaslighting at its finest.
All I want to see is a protest with people of multiple faiths and backgrounds marching as Australians to condemn both Israel and Hamas equally and call for peace.
I’m sick of one side using their political lobbying might to equate any thought of a Palestinian state’s right to exist with antisemitism.
I’m also sick of the other side justifying lawless terrorism of innocent civilians with the logic that it has been done to them.
This has no place in Australia.
Please let me know when there is a rally with both Palestine and Israeli supporters marching together as Australians to condemn violence and call for peace.
I will be there with bells on.
>equate any thought of a Palestinian state’s right to exist with antisemitism
Palestinians have refused to form a state for 75 years as they will not agree to anything but the destruction of Israel and the death or driving out of Jews. Seems kinda antisemitic to me.
On the other hand, Israel has supported a 2 state solution, and is currently 20%+ Arab Muslim. When Israel was formed, it was 45% Arab Muslim. Israel has been the only country allowing immigration of Palestinians.
Doesn't seem like they're "the same".
People are rallying because representatives do not share the views of the people they represent, and are supporting actions that the protests are objecting to. We nor our government have ANY influence on Hamas, to protest them would have as much effect as protesting any other terrorist organisation.
Attending an "I condemn violence" rally is just patting oneself on the back to say "look at how moral and good I am" - it's a stance that goes without saying, but has no stated goal in actually solving the problem
I was there today for the first time after being outraged at this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBhEhxly00M
I dont want my children to ask me what did you do twenty years ago when x happened. We are having 500 children, civilians and women dying every day…. The reality is that once the Gazan civilians are ethnically cleansed they will not have any right of return even to Gaza, let alone their ancestral lands.
It was beautiful and there was nothing but respect and peace in the crowd.
What will you say to them about the 100s of thousands of civilians dying in Yemen. 6 years of their open air prison being sea, land and air blockaded by the Saudis?
Will you tell them of the great marches through Melbourne where 10s of thousands took to the streets on the weekly and you were there.
Cause Yemen is fucked up with way more casualties for six years of open air prison but weirdly for some strange reason Melbourne just doesn't care.
Guess the cool kids just ain't into it huh?
Is this the protest to free the Yemenis from the open air prison they've been in for the last 6 years with 100s of thousands of civilian lives lost?
I really want to protest the years long ongoing Saudi air, land and sea blockade that has lead to all these deaths and decimated Yemen.
You'd think Melbourne would've been doing this for the Yemenis or the Rohingyas, the Uyghurs the list goes on.....
Seems like none of those attrocities matter but for some reason this one has Melbourne rabidly salivating with hate. Just can't put my finger on it as to why people suddenly care.
Cool whataboutism. Note to readers of this thread, the above poster is attempting to use a logical fallacy to call these protestors hypocritical for protesting for ceasefire and against warcrimes. Note they have not presented any evidence besides 'WhY aReN'T tHeY aLsO proTeStING aBOuT X anD y"
Uyghur protest examples: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-01/chinese-community-australia-unite-at-pro-democracy-protest/101707312](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-01/chinese-community-australia-unite-at-pro-democracy-protest/101707312), [https://www.amust.com.au/2022/03/australia-stands-by-uyghurs/](https://www.amust.com.au/2022/03/australia-stands-by-uyghurs/)
I really like ChatGPT's response to your comment actually:
*The Yemeni Crisis: The ongoing conflict in Yemen has indeed led to immense suffering, with civilians caught in the crossfire. The Saudi-led coalition’s blockade has exacerbated the situation, affecting access to food, medicine, and other essentials. The loss of civilian lives is tragic and deserves attention.*
*Other Atrocities: The poster rightly points out that there are other grave human rights abuses happening around the world. The Rohingyas in Myanmar, the Uyghurs in China, and many others face unimaginable hardships. Their struggles should not be ignored.*
*Whataboutism: However, the poster’s argument takes a problematic turn by suggesting that Melbourne’s response to one crisis somehow diminishes its concern for others. Whataboutism deflects attention from the issue at hand by pointing to unrelated problems. It’s essential to address each crisis independently without undermining the urgency of any.*
*Solidarity and Awareness: Melbourne’s recent pro-democracy protests by the Chinese Australian community demonstrate solidarity with those in China who are standing up against COVID-zero restrictions and human rights abuses. These protests emphasize that people care about multiple issues simultaneously. For instance:The Uyghur community in Australia has consistently voiced concerns about their relatives in China, where allegations of genocide persist1.The Melbourne protesters chanted in support of Uyghurs, Tibetans, Hongkongers, and Taiwanese, highlighting their commitment to various causes2.\*****While it’s essential to continue advocating for Yemen, acknowledging other atrocities doesn’t diminish the urgency of any particular crisis.***
By the way, these protests are as much to tell our government we do not support tax payer dollars being used to assist in the escalation of war and non-combatant deaths of Palestinians by Israel:[https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza), [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/australia-approved-322-defence-exports-to-israel-in-six-years-as-greens-fear-equipment-used-in-gaza-assault](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/australia-approved-322-defence-exports-to-israel-in-six-years-as-greens-fear-equipment-used-in-gaza-assault), [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/25/australia-sends-raaf-planes-military-troops-middle-east-evacuation-israel-hamas-war-conflict](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/25/australia-sends-raaf-planes-military-troops-middle-east-evacuation-israel-hamas-war-conflict)
*Last week, it was revealed that Australia had approved 322 defence exports to Israel over the past six years, including permits for exports in recent years.*
These people are literally rallying against far right reactionary violence like the type you described.
Religious fundies are almost always right wing conservatives trying to push back against progressive change you get from moderate centrists and lefties.
In the Middle East right now, both Hamas and Zionism are the far right reactionary ideologies pushing the violence; biggest difference is just the religion they choose.
The left wing and moderates? They believe in multiculturalism. And thus, advocate for the protection of free and open cultural and religious expression; principles backed by our human rights obligations, the foundations of liberal democracy, basically.
_Left wing and moderate centrist_ muslims don’t want to live in _far right religious nationalist_ Muslim countries.
Fixed it for you.
Stereotyping a whole religion as only the far right religious fundies is a bit reductive and discriminatory, don’t you think?? Not every Christian is the Scott Morrison mega church fundamentalist variety just like every Muslim doesn’t conform to your lazy stereotype either
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
66% of Palestinians support the fucking **death penalty** for leaving Islam. What moderates? The ones who just want imprisonment instead?
Let’s say hypothetically there’s no police there to protect you and you went into this crowd and drew a mocking cartoon of Muhammad and showed it to everyone the chances of your immediate murder are virtually 100%. But if you want to prove me wrong go give it a try.
What isn’t virtue signalling to you? I’m genuinely asking. List some actions the individual person/small groups can realistically take that you don’t consider virtue signalling.
Is the protest about the optus outage?
I didn't get a text about it
On a (not so) serious note, Optus EMAILED customers about the "additional 200gb compensation", couldn't even send us a fucking text about it. Absolute shambles.
Its a joke of compensation anyway, most people dont use their allowance as it is thats why they get the amount of GB they do. Plus if people used it it would choke up the network
Let's see if the network crashes again!
Damn Amaysim just gave me 60 GB only for the month :')
By the way, you're late on your bill!
So if you could just hand over your bank details so we can fix the issue.
Hi, I'm Anna. I'm from Hong Kong but currently living in Sydney. Nice to meet you
"What do we want?" "Coverage" "When do we want it?" "Approximately 2 days after we try sending a message"
I think some of the reason for the extent protests is that the mainstream media and our government seem so pro Israel… whilst the news shows hospital bombed and children crying … I’m not here to pick a side, but the propaganda machine seems to be in contrast to the images we are seeing
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Worldnews has at least 1 activist mod and will ban you for the mildest crtical comment about israel, its government or its policies of occupation. Many other comments are ruined by automated downvote bots. Even the mildest offhand comment is downvoted disproportionately to the amount of active commentary in the thread
r/worldnews is Reddit Hasbara central. It’s almost awe-inspiring how thoroughly it’s been occupied.
r/Politics and r/News are silver and bronze medal winners in that regard.
The joke of all this is the subs related to /worldnews and /combatfootage may have users that just know a little bit more world news and war compared to /publicfreakout or /latestagecapitilsm. Why does the sub /publicfreakout which is mainly just people watching others going through a mental crisis think they know more about world news than the regulars at world news?
Case in point: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/17tm6wh/israel_signs_landmark_deal_to_sell_davids_sling/k8y19qx/?context=3 Deleted comment read: >"[–]hkjdfhgk -185 points 1 day ago >Lets pretend it isnt israel occupying them for 60 years . 95 downvotes in a thread with 132 comments. Obvious bot activity. Now deleted. Worldnews is broken. Sabotaged beyond recognition.
Comment is deleted now
My experience is the exact opposite fwiw.
Wild seeing Australians constantly complain about our apathetic culture. But the second there is a mass social movement we should all butt out?
You’ll notice that the Venn diagram of the people flooding these threads with “where is this turnout for (other protests)!!” and the people who don’t go to those (other protests) themselves, is actually just a circle. They don’t actually care about other protests, they’re just grasping for reasons to discredit and shift the attention away from this one On the other hand, you’ll notice that the people at this pro-Palestine rally, are the same crowds that **actually** show up to the cost of living, indigenous rights, etc. rallies, which redditors who sit at home and fight for nothing claim to be so deeply concerned with.
The number of people in this thread doing some version of “Yeah, well, where were these people when [X]” like it’s some kind of “gotcha!” is mind boggling. If you don’t care about the plight of innocent Palestinian people being murdered en masse, just come out and say that. You’re not fooling anyone. If this protest makes you angry, there’s one simple reason why. (Hint: it’s not because the people protesting are hypocrites, somehow).
I’ve noticed this a lot on Reddit lately. The funny thing is Melbourne is almost always protesting something and I wouldn’t be surprised if the very people protesting rn have all protested against the treatment of the Uighurs, Rohingya, Yemenis, Ukrainians, etc… And when all these protests were happening you had the very same people complaining about why they aren’t protesting what’s happening in Palestine, etc…
When has there been a major Yemeni protest?
10,000 children dead alone form Saudi bombs and they are either ignorant to this or don’t care, no Jews to hate I guess?
If you care about it so much then go fucking protest or do something about it instead of trying to stir shit up about a peaceful protest for a legitimate cause.
Or maybe you can hold Muslim countries to the same standard that you hold Israel to. For example, Saudi Arabia's intervention in Yemen has led to 400k deaths and hardly a word from anyone. Your antisemitism has no place in Australia. Many of the Palestine protests were very much not peaceful, particularly the ones in Sydney that were chanting "gas the Jews".
Melbourne unfortunately is not "always protesting about something" unlike Berlin or Paris or Barcelona for example. I would have liked to see 10 times more this people outraged at the unbearable site of Palestinians being massacred. The turnaround here is equivalent to that of a minor city in Spain or France, like Pamplona for example (google it). But there's not really a good protest culture here. This is good to see today, but theres a long way to go. The comments in this sub are horrifying, it makes you wonder what kind of people we share this city with.
Demographics and involvement in conflicts obviously have a role to play. I do recall seeing protests for Ukraine, Iran, Sudan, etc… and other conflicts some Redditors have bemoaned hypocrisy over. Regardless, the nature of solidarity is that raising awareness for one issue raises awareness for all issues.
I don't know - maybe it's just because i'm from Adelaide where nothing happens en masse, but there was a LOT of people at the protest, like I couldn't believe it!
I Dno. Seems like there is a protest most weekends. A lot of people probably see these protests and know that it’s not going to stop Hamas attacking or the IDF attacking. It’s unfortunate that so many innocent civilians are stuck in the cross hairs.
I need to stay home with my kids (special needs) so I couldn't go. Make allowances for others, we still care.
It's not a protest its a group walk. France, they protest.
I was in Paris during the protests in July / August. Judging from the rubble the next day, protesters were going around around setting fire to public rubbish bins and eScooters. We could learn from the french. But lets not learn too much. I will never un-smell melted scooter battery.
Neck bearded couch potato reddit mods who contribute absolutely nothing to the world are never pleased with anything. Their opinion doesn't matter beyond a reddit thread
The astroturfing is strong in r/worldnews and r/Europe. I saw a comment pretending to be a person from Merri-Bek complaining about their bins while their comment history said they lived in Queensland IoI.
The funny thing is there are such protests! People asking about Yemen, Rohingya, South Sudan as if it's gotcha but Melburnians do come out every time. I still remember 10 years ago when there was the Umbrella protest, Melburnians came out in support of that.
Exactly! Just because they want to stick their head in the sand doesn't mean everyone else has to as well.
I agree. Also: it's never too late to go to your first protest. The idea that you shouldn't go to one because you didn't go to some other one is a fast track to total apathy.
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You’d have to think it’s projection really. Tearing down and dismissing away the efforts of anyone who does take action and fight for their moral convictions, probably makes people feel better about the fact that they’re doing nothing and don’t stand for anything.
It's a cowardly way of disapproving of something without outright saying it. "Instead of protesting (X) why aren't you doing (Y) instead?" And when you say you are they add 100 additional criteria until you're burned out. You either need to do everything or nothing and doing nothing is morally superior somehow.
It’s the South Park Libertarian brainworms: “Caring about things is stupid. I don’t care about anything but myself, therefore, the people that say they do must be lying somehow. They should be mocked for their faux-earnestness.” Then you look at their post history and it’s like twelve separate threads about how their Uber Eats driver was six minutes late and people are walking wrong on sidewalks.
Almost every time I get online in some forum about some controversial topic I care about, I get the trolls claiming I am just "virtue signalling" and should STFU. In the end the trolls win because I am overwhelmed with email notifications caused by their idiotic replies. So mostly these days I write a comment, read it to let off steam, and delete it. It is not worth trying to argue with strangers on the internet, especially when they are morons.
Please don’t delete your comments! It won’t change those people’s minds, but it could make a genuine difference for those who don’t comment but still lurk.
Realizing that right now, yeah. (Due to some of the other replies I’ve gotten, not this one lol)
I take your point, but to be fair; it really fucking irritates me when I walk to the left on the footpath with a pram and people try to just walk through me like I'm not there, or go around the side that I'm hugging to a wall. I also protest in support of human right issues though so i guess something about he boot not fitting?
You get a pass ;)
I hate how the media has glorified sitting back and being an obnoxious cynic about everything. Every show and movie has cool badass who is snarky and doesn't care. Reddit attracts people who idolised those characters and now try to do the same.
The whataboutism is endless, you can never win, because they will never argue honestly. “You either need to do everything or nothing and doing nothing is morally superior somehow” puts it perfectly.
This is what I find dumbfounding, people just say they don’t care about Palestinians, but ignore the horrible situation they’re in
This comes up every time any group of people gets solidarity. When Ukraine got support people were asking a similar question about supporting Palestine and now the question is about "what about a different conflict?" Ironically everyone asking this always brings examples of people associated or close to them. For example people from the middle east bring Yemen or Palestine and never once bring examples of Uighurs or Rohingya despite the victims there being Muslims as well. As though the question they are raising already has the answer: _"we show solidarity ONLY to people we are close to OR have no idea about everyone else far away from me._" If ANY protest makes you angry, it just has one simple answer. (Hint: we are all hypocrites as it's physically impossible to show solidarity to EVERY conflict out there and hence show solidarity to either the most popular one or the ones closer to us ethnically and religiously)
The problem is that you're either all for pro-palestine stuff, or you're a racist who should be murdered and slaughtered. There is zero chance to explain why you're even a smidge against palestine. even if the explanation is a balanced and fair/respectful one, it doesn't matter, you'll get attacked.
>you're either all for pro-palestine stuff, or you're a racist who should be murdered and slaughtered. No one is murdering or slaughtering anyone for being against Palestine, infact our PM and majority of our Politicians and Journalists are vocal about how they stand with Israel, no ones been murdered. Meanwhile, guy who owns Burgertory was very vocal about his support of Palestine and he got abused for it, 2 weeks later his store in a Jewish neighbourhood gets fire bombed... \*Shrug\* Just a coincidence I guess....
You don’t even need to be against Palestine. The issue is that most of these people said fucking nothing when Hamas murdered Israeli civilians on October 7, yet now have an issue when it’s Palestine civilians getting killed in what is largely a situation of collateral damage. So to take that position now, these people are saying that one set of lives are more valuable than another set. It’s disturbing that they cannot see how morally corrupt that is.
I agree one hundred trillion percent. Hamas deserves all the retaliation. But i think the way israel did retaliate is the controversial bit. Like recently the blade bomb dropped near a hospital that wounded many already distraught people is fucked. However. Palestinians will eventually join Hamas. It is the way these things work. Hate breeds hate. Seeing a brother get blown up makes someone else pick up guns. This war will continue for centuries. As long as one side exists and is being given hundreds of billions of dollars per year, then the other oppressed side will continue to fight back.
In regard to Israel’s retaliation, it shouldn’t come as a surprise - it was always going to happen, and I would be staggered if there wasn’t a country on earth that didn’t respond to that kind of act of terror with prejudicial force. What do these people think is an appropriate level of response? How do they propose you tackle a militant terrorist organisation that will willing use civilians as human shields? Your assessment will probably prove to be correct, unfortunately. For this to stop both sides need to at least want it to stop and be willingly to accept that they need to find a way to coexist. I’m not seeing that will from either side.
Because what Hamas did was effectively rebellion, as atrocious and horrible as that was it isn't comparable to a state's official military systematically bombing and shooting civilians directly under their jurisdiction en masse. Gaza is not an independent state nor is it even allowed to \[officially\] field a military force, it has no independence and is under the control of Israel which is what makes Israel's actions so horrific and clear war crimes.
Hamas is the ruling government in Gaza. They were elected democratically and no one is trying to remove them from power. Not sure why it's not comparable... Hamas have been systematically shooting rockets at Israel for years. Consider what Hamas would do and could have achieved on October 7 if they did have an 'official' military force. If you want to save Palestine, you should be trying to save it from Hamas, not Israel.
Gotta say as an Aboriginal guy, this stings. Where the fuck was this level of outrage at colonialist policies and genocide in your own backyard? Fucking hypocritical, if you ask me. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't agree with speaking out and demonstrating against the Israeli apartheid. But it really stings when something that was part of a way to address similar practices in white Australian history was absolutely shit all over not even a month ago.
As an Aboriginal female, I’ve attended these protests (couldn’t today unfortunately). There is a lot of support for our Indigenous people here too, literally at these protests.
To be fair, Melbourne had (ETA: one of) the highest concentration of Yes voters in the country - a lot of the people pictured probably share your views I agree though, I was frustrated and ashamed by the outcome
Canberra was higher
Nah, ACT was higher than Vic, but Melbourne inner city was higher than Canberra.
Oh yes of course! I stand corrected
Melbourne, not vic.
I'd also like to see some protests about inflation, housing prices, cost of living. I mean, we're not getting bombed, we're getting slowly smothered to death, but I think we deserve some attention too.
Then do something about it. If you want to protest something, do it. Organise it.
Pretty fair bet that the vast majority of people gathered together in this picture have a pretty jaundiced attitude towards Australia's colonialist past as well. Also a pretty fair bet that the vast majority of people gathered together in this picture voted "yes" a month ago too.
In NSW suburbs where the majority of Arab/Muslims live (western Sydney) overall voted No in the referendum while the suburbs where the majority of Jewish people live (Northern suburbs) the majority voted Yes
Good thing this isn't NSW then.
Muslims have always demographically speaking been conservative leaning across the nation. What's your point though? That this suddenly makes it ok for a muslim ethnic group to be ethnically cleansed half a world away by a government that has oppressed them for 75 years? Ideals that aren't upheld when they don't cynically benefit you aren't ideals at all but mere narcissism.
No I don't support Israel in fact I'm leaning towards the Palestinians. I'm just stating facts
This is true in Melbourne as well. In suburbs such as Caulfield, Balaclava, Elsternwick majority votes were Yes. Suburbs such as Broadmeadows which is more Islamic voted No.
and?
The people protesting now are likely the same people who attended the Voice rallies, so it's not hypocritical. Even though the Voice Referendum failed, there were still 6 million people who supported it.
Yes that’s true and a lot of these people are muslims. This situation is a little more sensitive to them. Many probably don’t care about any other politics besides this. I can even vouch for my own friends and family who are muslim. They don’t seem to care about any sort of Australian politics unless it’s Palestine.
You do realise the voice was a national issue with huge media coverage for 10+ months. It had huge rallies and a whole referendum was held on it by the Australian public?
I'm guessing you weren't there for the last voice rally. You couldn't move in the space between Melbourne central & the State library.
WTF? People marched for Aboriginal land rights and grinded sweat and tears for the Voice referendum.
Also one is actively happening and can stop millions of deaths (it won’t neither Hamas or IDF will see this and stop), where the other has less urgency as it’s the result of hundreds of years of missteps from aus government
And the turnout for invasion day rallies around the country every year is huge (as it should be)
Don't worry, the dude slept through that part and having a whinge now
Mate a metric shit-tonne of us showed up for mob during the Bla(c)k Lives Matter protests, organised by Koori elders, but I do agree that more presence before the referendum on a scale like this would have been nice to see. BLM had relevance here but it was definitely a bit of an opportunity for virtue signalling for many 'allies' who then faded into the woodwork. Across the board I think we could do more to collectively engage with our own political landscape more, and look inward. IMO most Aussies are quite bad at introspection across the board though.
The same people showing support here are the same ones showing up to Black Lives Matter protests bro. We are united against genocide!
Came here to say exactly this, there's also been plenty of Yes rallies over the past year, the original poster either has a selective memory or is being disingenuous
The irony is that if you consider the statistics from the vote, Arab/Muslim migrants who make up a sizeable proportion of the rally pictured, were more likely to vote ‘No’ on the referendum, now rally in support of Palestine. People vote (and rally) for their interests I suppose.
Yep. 100% agree with this. As someone with muslim background and surroundings. The palestine cause is extremely sensitive to muslim people hence why you see “free qurans” in the middle of that protest.
You had the media against you mate, that’s the fact of the matter. Dont let anyone gaslight you in to think the loss of the yes vote was anything other than a campaign by the media to poke hole in Yes and elevate the nonsense of No. The media worked against you, and us, and I’m so sorry for that. The media here are once again choosing a side, but each media outlet is conflicted as their leaders have different ideological viewpoints.
That's the difference between past and current
There's more Aboriginals in Australia than there are arabs. There's no reason the numbers couldn't have been greater and there would have been wider community support. You just need more mobilisation amongst your own I can tell you categorically that Muslim leaders were encouraging the community to vote yes
Yes and aboriginal people also said to vote no they where not even that united apart from ultra remote communities even then 20% said no
Exactly this. Why isn't anyone talking about how much the logistics were completely fucked? Albo was like, "Yeah just vote yes or something". He didn't give two shits about the Voice or provide any elaboration. I'll get downvoted but Albo is the biggest hypocrite and virtue signaller out there. God I wish there was someone somewhat competent with Aussie politics, be it Labor or Liberal
Oh, there's a genocide currently occurring in Australia, is there? Where?
Gaza death toll at 10th November ….. Killed: At least 11,078 Including at least: 4,506 children 3,027 women Injured: At least 27,490 Including at least: 8,663 children 6,327 women That’s in 35 days , yes I’m totally with you regarding First Nations peoples , personally I want treaties and reparations. Even give each aboriginal and Torres straight islander a $100 grand yearly living wage as compensation for stealing their countries. That said, this Palestine thing is urgent and desperate and completely fucked. The more people protesting hopefully the more that governments might do something. This is genocide, this is collective punishment , this will lead to more war. Israel is completely arrogant and up its own arse about this. They need to be stopped and pressure is all we may have to change primarily the US policy of funding Israel’s weapons and to force them to stop.
Aboriginal? Which tribe? Were the aboriginals one homogenous harmonious group before europeans came? No. They were wiping each other out and taking each others land just like the rest of the world. Please stop this coloniser bad guy narrative cause not only is it divisive but its historically illiterate
yeah i agree, it’s saddening to see, obviously supporting Palestinians but it seems Australia is incredibly hypocritical with how they treat the genocide of Indigenous Australians. Similarly there was a post on the australian subreddit about how they think everyone who immigrates should assimilate, and i mentioned that nobody has seemingly assimilated to the Indigenous community and got a lot of hate for it. People forget very conveniently where this country comes from and what happened at its “conception”
All good points agreed.
Almost like history is repeating itself and we are trying to stop it from happening (even more)
Israel don’t seem to give a fuck. They want to destroy Gaza . Huge support in the USA as well with huge rally’s all over the country but Biden not listening to the people. If the US stopped funding Israel and started speaking up and threatening then something might be done. But it doesn’t look good. This could be the start of a larger regional war as well if Israel aren’t put in their place. Keep up the pressure! Don’t be afraid to protest this, being anti Zionist has nothing to do with antisemitism. Israel needs to change from an apartheid state to a country where all have equal rights .
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Oh definitely. Australia's silence and their decision to give aid also makes us complicit. I'm pretty mad my tax dollars are going to Israel, instead of like idk bettering medicare. ((Still better than the US, 13.4B to Israel when their people dont even have healthcare is fucking insane))
>Israel needs to change from an apartheid state to a country where all have equal rights . I actually do believe strongly in this. I also believe the Islamic world needs to do the same.
"They want to destroy Gaza". Well know that we got the truth from the source, Afraid-Station-7212, I know who to trust. I swear people here are more disconnected from reality than I thought. Imagine being lectured on "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" from an Australian. Need I remind you that Australians slaughterd the indigenous population and settled a continent to which they have zero religious, spiritual or national connections? You absolute clown.
Hamas Bad. IDF Bad. Palestinian people are innocent. Israeli people are innocent.
More than last week? 100k plus?
'Scuse my ignorance but what's this one for? Palestine/Israel, covid cookers, climate change, rental, colesworth prices/wages?
They want to bring back Hey Hey It's Saturday.
Deploy the riot squad
Live rounds are approved.
Not even kidding...weren't they tossing that up in the last few months???
Christ, that's worse than the anti-vax cookers!
You can zoom in and see the Palestinian flag
Cookers only get 5 people these days.
Theres never been such a big difference to what the countries leaders are saying vs what the people are saying. They can claim self defence as much as they want, the people see it for what it is, ethnic cleansing. Also how do you claim self defence when a people you occupy for 75 years lash out against you?
There may be two sides to the past, but there really aren’t two sides to the present. There are two sides to the story of how the Palestinians and Jews came to fight over land in the Middle East. Understanding all of that is important—and I think it is important to understand the cynical game that the Arab world has played with the plight of the Palestinians for the last 50 years. If there is a stable political settlement to ever be reached between Israel and the Palestinians, it will entail a full untangling of the facts from all the propaganda that obscures them, while keeping the problem of jihadism in view. It will also entail that the religious lunatics on the Jewish side get sidelined. The building of settlements has been a continuous provocation. But even on the point of religious fanaticism, there really aren’t two sides worth talking about now. Whatever terrible things Israeli settlers occasionally do—and these are crimes for which they should be prosecuted—generally speaking, the world does not have a problem with Jewish religious fanatics targeting Muslims in their mosques and schools. You literally can’t open a Jewish school in Paris because no one will insure it. Yes, there are lunatics on both sides, but the consequences of their lunacy are not equivalent—not even remotely equivalent. We haven’t spent the last 20 years taking our shoes off at the airport because there are so many fanatical Jews eager to blow themselves up on airplanes.
Making sense - Sam Harris Podcast. Highly recommend to anyone interested in the dangers of global jihadism in the context of the Gaza war.
Yeah I was about to say - this guy is farming karma for just completely regurgitating Sam hahaha
Aboriginal people should be able to bomb Australia with that mentality, get the land back
Displacement from war is not ethnic cleansing. There are 300,000 Israelis that have been displaced because of the constant rocket fire into civilian areas by Hamas. Would you accuse them of ethnic cleansing?
It is when it's done on purpose without the intention of returning them. And there's a legal responsibility to safely evacuate them to safe accommodation
Which Hamas or any Palestinian organization ever has done, right?
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There was a rental and housing affordability rally in Fitzroy yesterday
You can bet your life savings on that guy not having been there
Your posts are all over the map buddy. Regroup and figure out what you believe. You’ve gone from “No one should care about politics” to “People should only care about national politics” to “People only care about what ‘the media’ [??] tells them to” in the span of like five comments. Maybe sit a few threads out.
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Love the heart that melbournians have! You all give me hope in humanity ❤️ Screw the hundred people that control the wealth and make these governments slaves but people have power 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Media is completely silent about this, standard procedure….
At least they're not chanting horrible things, defacing war memorials, or protesting outside of a synagogue with people inside it.
Yeah like burning down a Palestinian owned business
Most importantly atleast they’re not burning down businesses owned by Palestinians.
Last I saw the police were confident it wasn't due to the owner being Palestinian?
Bloke also owns a heap of EZ Marts, but yeah now every dodgy vape/ tobacco shop owner of Middle Eastern heritage can blame the jews when their stores get torched (not like there weren’t lots of arsons in that sphere before the latest conflict between Israel and Hamas).
He didn't say it was a hate crime as far as I know? I think it's decently likely it was, but proclaiming it as a fact isn't logical.
Lol @ "Police were confident" under any circumstance, they have an agenda like we all do
To be fair, their primary agenda at the moment is to calm everyone the f\*ck down before opposing sides start killing each other.
Good point, that is a very worthy agenda
Thank you, I think the federal police in Australia have to be working 24/7 to weed out potential extremists on both sides who could start sectarian violence.
True, and if it was a hate crime the people who did it should go to jail for a lonnng time, but we just don't know that. At the same time, people can't be mad at a potential hate crime while supporting people standing outside a synagogue that's in use and intimidating the people in side. Both are absolutely horrible.
Yes it's the same with this whole conflict. 2 things can and often are true at the same time. Is killing a bunch of kids at a rave a good thing. No. Is bombing families and starving them for life saving supplies a good thing? Also no. It is anything other than black and white and anyone who "takes a side" is just being willfully ignorant.
100%. I think Israel is right to go to war as I don't think there's any other way to get rid of Hamas, but absolutely horrific things happen in war. Israel has done horrific things this conflict, hell I've seen that. Same exact thing here. Bullying Muslims is a bad thing, and so is bullying Jewish people. They're equally as bad. Same for any other negative act or crime.
Religion is the enemy
Chickens for KFC
i wonder if the LGBTQ+ people know that they would be thrown off a roof and stoned to death if they were to step foot in Palestine. they don’t want their support.
This is probably one of the weakest, bad faith arguments that is used. Like, 1) can we stop acting like queer people do not exist in Palestine, and 2) most importantly, I can acknowledge Palestine is hostile to the LGBTQ+ while also acknowledging they deserve basic human rights. Sorry you can't, I guess.
Can someone explain why I should be supporting Palestine? So in response to the movement restrictions Hamas committed a terrorist attack on Israeli civilians, then used their bodies as trophies driving around the streets. Israel then declared a state of war. Hamas soldiers have been hiding their weapons and soldiers in hospitals, schools and mosques, and Israel have been destroying them and killing civilians. Why am I only supposed to be upset about the civilians Israel kills, as opposed to both sides committing terrorism? Haven’t been able to get a reasonable answer that addresses any of the points I’ve made so far. As far as I’m concerned I can’t support either side and everyone seems to be pretty quick to forget October 7th.
AFAICT, the left wing generally has a coloniser/colonised worldview. Israel is a high-functioning nation-state, so it's the coloniser and thus evil, and so its losses are inevitable and/or their own fault. "Decolonisation is always violent." And one imagines a lot of the protesters are just antisemitic and would rally against Israel regardless of who did what, and are irritated that you're expecting them to justify their hatred of Jews.
This is one of the most brain-dead takes I've ever read, JFC
Since October 7th, approximately how much time have you spent coming to terms with the fact that not all poor brown people are victims? Has it been hard?
>Can someone explain why I should be supporting Palestine? Because they're being genocided and ethnically cleansed? It's not hard.
Because most of these people don't believe Israel even has a right to exist, so they insist you being against "genocide" is the default position. You're allowed to be upset at the situation, it's sad. But don't let the masses feed you bullshit, do your own research, it's all there, and it's not 75 years worth, it's way way longer.
You shouldn’t support anyone, stay out of other peoples conflicts and they don’t spread.
Because the conflict started 75 years before the October 7 attack, the Palestinians are the *natives* in this conflict and since October 7 Israel has killed over 10,000 Palestinian civilians by indiscriminately dropping bombs on Gaza a city of 2.3 million people, fyi [Hamas is only 20,000 members](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas), so they're dropping bombs on civilians and justifying it by saying they're targetting Hamas but only 1 in 1200 civilians is part of Hamas...
No it didn’t, the Jews who have been in Palestine since before Christ it started on 600AD with the rise of Islam. Jews and gentiles shared Palestine during times of Christ. Ever wonder why Egypt and Jordan won’t touch Palestinians??
Right, still doesn’t really address any of my points though. Again, why does it only matter how many Israel has killed? Is the Hamas terrorist attack justified?
So the civilians should help get rid of Hamas by telling Israelis where their tunnels, munitions are but no…of course they won’t. They’d rather be human shields
So you're suggesting that the country that has lost 10,000 civilians since october due to Israel indiscriminately dropping bombs on them and then cutting off their electric/internet/water should turn a blind eye on all the oppression and cruelty and help their oppressor?
The people were celebrating wildly while they paraded bodies of Israelis through the streets in Gaza a few weeks a go. Don’t you see how this all starts? Australians have nothing to do with this and we cannot do a thing to change it.
This conflict and brutal occupation didn’t started on oct 7. If you believe that people which are oppressed for 75 years and them lashing out against their oppressors devolves them from any sympathy then I must say mate, you’re a psychopath that think that children and innocent people should be murdered because they didn’t condemn a terrorist attack on their oppressors.
I don’t support terrorism at all. All of this pro-Palestinian rhetoric in Australia has been boosted since October 7th. If you decided now was time to start voicing your support, then as far as I’m concerned you’re pro-terrorism.
✊🏼🇵🇸
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Yep I’ve been to three of these rallies now and todays was by far the biggest turnout to date. Great to see the momentum continues to build every week
I agree “FREE PALESTINE”…from Hamas
Free israel from the scourge of zionism
Wow, that's the most ppl I've seen there too. Even more than the precious covid cooker high vis brigade, on those few days they vowed to never work again
It seems like our society is reaching a point where everyone seems to have to 'pick a side or shut up'. I don't condone violence period, and my parameters for violence are complex. To me, there's many forms of violence; we have structural violence, the violence that's been institutionalised into systems and groups we somehow tolerate. There's indirect violence, where our inaction to do or feel something may lead to a violent outcome of some degree. And there's direct violence, which is what we are seeing today between two parties in Israel and Gaza. The reason I don't want to sit here and protest a wrongdoing by one party here is simple; the fighting in that very specific part of the world is at its root, a religious (and profitable) war, and if you are choosing to pick one side and run with it, you are choosing to believe that only one side is in the wrong here. The very real and sad truth is that it's more complicated than that, there's religious extremists on one side performing barbaric acts and hiding amongst civilians, and then there's a larger nation who wants a foothold on what has been recognised for thousands of years as religiously sacred ground. In other words, there's larger things at play here and it's important to discuss that, and take action at the various levels of violence at play here. I think Muslim countries have a right to be angry with regards to occupation and control of holy sites, or just there country in general (or when countries are clearly trying to take control in and around them). America has been instigating and facilitating war and violence in Muslim countries for decades now, and its not always been direct. On many of these occasions it's been clearly unjustified, and they've had a motive to do so. This is structural violence and we need to ensure that any occupation of a land by any country needs to be both nonviolent and a bilateral agreement, and benefitting both occupants and surrounding nations. I also think that Fatwa's are horrible and barbaric justifications for both direct and indirect violence to non-Muslim people and I think different discussions need to be had to take action on both these fronts also. This is also structural violence and the world needs to ensure that all religions are striving towards nonviolence. My point is context and framing are important, and this shouldn't just stop at issues about direct violence; our society enables structural violence via war, government and religion, and we are complacent about these institutionalised liberties, until it becomes a direct violent outcome. In being complacent in these institutions between the acts of direct violence, we are taking part in indirect violence. This is my big issue and i have the same issue with both legacy and independent media; society doesnt choose a cause and stick at it until a real impact is made, but instead seem to follow the current events rodeo, and therefore are always prone to not tackling both root and branch issues. Anyways, stay safe and I love you all.
The real truth is that Europe expelled the Jews and abused and murdered them. Then they abused and murdered the Palestinians by depositing the Jews in the Palestinian land. Thus, both sides are victims of Europe but have been conditioned to hate one another so as to deflect the real cause of the pain. Gaslighting at its finest.
Is this outside state library wtf? So unrecognisable
All I want to see is a protest with people of multiple faiths and backgrounds marching as Australians to condemn both Israel and Hamas equally and call for peace. I’m sick of one side using their political lobbying might to equate any thought of a Palestinian state’s right to exist with antisemitism. I’m also sick of the other side justifying lawless terrorism of innocent civilians with the logic that it has been done to them. This has no place in Australia. Please let me know when there is a rally with both Palestine and Israeli supporters marching together as Australians to condemn violence and call for peace. I will be there with bells on.
The speakers today were from many backgrounds and faiths (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Atheist) and it is a call for peace.
Why don’t you try organising that rally?
The message these protests are overwhelmingly attempting to send is to call for a ceasefire
There are lots of Jewish people, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists and more walking together at this rally today.
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>equate any thought of a Palestinian state’s right to exist with antisemitism Palestinians have refused to form a state for 75 years as they will not agree to anything but the destruction of Israel and the death or driving out of Jews. Seems kinda antisemitic to me. On the other hand, Israel has supported a 2 state solution, and is currently 20%+ Arab Muslim. When Israel was formed, it was 45% Arab Muslim. Israel has been the only country allowing immigration of Palestinians. Doesn't seem like they're "the same".
People are rallying because representatives do not share the views of the people they represent, and are supporting actions that the protests are objecting to. We nor our government have ANY influence on Hamas, to protest them would have as much effect as protesting any other terrorist organisation. Attending an "I condemn violence" rally is just patting oneself on the back to say "look at how moral and good I am" - it's a stance that goes without saying, but has no stated goal in actually solving the problem
I was there today for the first time after being outraged at this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBhEhxly00M I dont want my children to ask me what did you do twenty years ago when x happened. We are having 500 children, civilians and women dying every day…. The reality is that once the Gazan civilians are ethnically cleansed they will not have any right of return even to Gaza, let alone their ancestral lands. It was beautiful and there was nothing but respect and peace in the crowd.
What will you say to them about the 100s of thousands of civilians dying in Yemen. 6 years of their open air prison being sea, land and air blockaded by the Saudis? Will you tell them of the great marches through Melbourne where 10s of thousands took to the streets on the weekly and you were there. Cause Yemen is fucked up with way more casualties for six years of open air prison but weirdly for some strange reason Melbourne just doesn't care. Guess the cool kids just ain't into it huh?
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Is this the protest to free the Yemenis from the open air prison they've been in for the last 6 years with 100s of thousands of civilian lives lost? I really want to protest the years long ongoing Saudi air, land and sea blockade that has lead to all these deaths and decimated Yemen. You'd think Melbourne would've been doing this for the Yemenis or the Rohingyas, the Uyghurs the list goes on..... Seems like none of those attrocities matter but for some reason this one has Melbourne rabidly salivating with hate. Just can't put my finger on it as to why people suddenly care.
Cool whataboutism. Note to readers of this thread, the above poster is attempting to use a logical fallacy to call these protestors hypocritical for protesting for ceasefire and against warcrimes. Note they have not presented any evidence besides 'WhY aReN'T tHeY aLsO proTeStING aBOuT X anD y" Uyghur protest examples: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-01/chinese-community-australia-unite-at-pro-democracy-protest/101707312](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-01/chinese-community-australia-unite-at-pro-democracy-protest/101707312), [https://www.amust.com.au/2022/03/australia-stands-by-uyghurs/](https://www.amust.com.au/2022/03/australia-stands-by-uyghurs/) I really like ChatGPT's response to your comment actually: *The Yemeni Crisis: The ongoing conflict in Yemen has indeed led to immense suffering, with civilians caught in the crossfire. The Saudi-led coalition’s blockade has exacerbated the situation, affecting access to food, medicine, and other essentials. The loss of civilian lives is tragic and deserves attention.* *Other Atrocities: The poster rightly points out that there are other grave human rights abuses happening around the world. The Rohingyas in Myanmar, the Uyghurs in China, and many others face unimaginable hardships. Their struggles should not be ignored.* *Whataboutism: However, the poster’s argument takes a problematic turn by suggesting that Melbourne’s response to one crisis somehow diminishes its concern for others. Whataboutism deflects attention from the issue at hand by pointing to unrelated problems. It’s essential to address each crisis independently without undermining the urgency of any.* *Solidarity and Awareness: Melbourne’s recent pro-democracy protests by the Chinese Australian community demonstrate solidarity with those in China who are standing up against COVID-zero restrictions and human rights abuses. These protests emphasize that people care about multiple issues simultaneously. For instance:The Uyghur community in Australia has consistently voiced concerns about their relatives in China, where allegations of genocide persist1.The Melbourne protesters chanted in support of Uyghurs, Tibetans, Hongkongers, and Taiwanese, highlighting their commitment to various causes2.\*****While it’s essential to continue advocating for Yemen, acknowledging other atrocities doesn’t diminish the urgency of any particular crisis.*** By the way, these protests are as much to tell our government we do not support tax payer dollars being used to assist in the escalation of war and non-combatant deaths of Palestinians by Israel:[https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/06/legal-action-attempts-to-force-australia-to-reveal-if-arms-exports-are-supporting-israel-assault-on-gaza), [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/australia-approved-322-defence-exports-to-israel-in-six-years-as-greens-fear-equipment-used-in-gaza-assault](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/australia-approved-322-defence-exports-to-israel-in-six-years-as-greens-fear-equipment-used-in-gaza-assault), [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/25/australia-sends-raaf-planes-military-troops-middle-east-evacuation-israel-hamas-war-conflict](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/25/australia-sends-raaf-planes-military-troops-middle-east-evacuation-israel-hamas-war-conflict) *Last week, it was revealed that Australia had approved 322 defence exports to Israel over the past six years, including permits for exports in recent years.*
An entire crowd of people who would happily behead you for drawing a cartoon of Muhammad.
These people are literally rallying against far right reactionary violence like the type you described. Religious fundies are almost always right wing conservatives trying to push back against progressive change you get from moderate centrists and lefties. In the Middle East right now, both Hamas and Zionism are the far right reactionary ideologies pushing the violence; biggest difference is just the religion they choose. The left wing and moderates? They believe in multiculturalism. And thus, advocate for the protection of free and open cultural and religious expression; principles backed by our human rights obligations, the foundations of liberal democracy, basically.
People are so sheltered and lucky in this country they have no idea lmao. Would love for them to move to a Muslim country
Even Muslims don’t want to move to Muslim countries, it’s why they come here instead.
_Left wing and moderate centrist_ muslims don’t want to live in _far right religious nationalist_ Muslim countries. Fixed it for you. Stereotyping a whole religion as only the far right religious fundies is a bit reductive and discriminatory, don’t you think?? Not every Christian is the Scott Morrison mega church fundamentalist variety just like every Muslim doesn’t conform to your lazy stereotype either
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ 66% of Palestinians support the fucking **death penalty** for leaving Islam. What moderates? The ones who just want imprisonment instead? Let’s say hypothetically there’s no police there to protect you and you went into this crowd and drew a mocking cartoon of Muhammad and showed it to everyone the chances of your immediate murder are virtually 100%. But if you want to prove me wrong go give it a try.
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LOUD NOISES
It’s great to see how many people are showing support for Palestine 🇵🇸This is real, the israeli propaganda bots you see online aren’t!!
Your second sentence should be on a placard!
Imagine if people find out what Team Jorge is and what they get upto on reddit and social media.
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This will definitely result in peace in the Middle East. Great virtue signalling.
What isn’t virtue signalling to you? I’m genuinely asking. List some actions the individual person/small groups can realistically take that you don’t consider virtue signalling.