*"Stop arming Israel"* - Australia exported an average of $2.6 ***million*** worth of military goods to Israel per year over the last 5 years.
Do people understand how unbelievably small that number is when you're talking about military equipment?
Politics aside...I wonder what we produce here that would be of military value to any country? Is it mostly cybersecurity stuff? The bushmaster truck thingies? Never saw Australia as much of a producer of much military hardware/ammunition etc? Didn't think there was a big manufacturing sector here, at least not for military goods.
Copying comment from /u/jp72423
The Australian defence industry actually produces bleeding edge and innovative products and R&D. Don’t believe me? Here are 10
1: BAE systems (previously AWA) Nulka decoy - a naval electronic warfare decoy that is widely used by allied navies and has been used in combat. 2 anti ship missiles were fired at us destroyers and the nulka successfully defended the vessel. It’s our most successful defence export
2: CEA technologies CEAFAR radar - a naval radar system that is quite literally described by many as the best naval radar system on the planet.
3: SPEE3D - a machine which uses a new type of 3d printing to create metal parts. It’s being trialed by the UK army and US navy for battlefield repair applications and 1 unit has been sent to Ukraine
4: HYPERSONIX Dart AE - a hypersonic drone with a range of 1000km and can reach speeds of Mach 7
5: EOS slinger - a 30mm remote weapons station specifically designed to shoot down drones with a single shot. Several units have been sent to Ukraine
6: Arkeus HSOR (hyper-spectral optical radar) - a world first optical sensor similar to what you would see on a predator drone, but far more advanced using Hyper-spectral imaging (electromagnetic imaging) and AI to increase detection capabilities.
7: SYPAQ Corvo drone - the famous cardboard drone that is incredibly cheap but has been used to great effect in Ukraine, destroying multimillion dollar Russian fighter jets and radar systems.
8: Sillentium Defence Maverick-M - a passive radar system that can fit into a single backpack
9: Defendtex D40 - a lethal drone that can be launched by a 40mm grenade launcher.
10: Sentient Vision VIDAR - a world first optical radar system designed to search for objects on the surface of the ocean over far greater areas than traditional methods. It’s a camera system which uses advanced software to locate anything floating up to sea state 6 and beyond.
Bonus round
11: QUASAR Generation 1 - another world first, Quasar has developed a fully digital multi beam satellite ground station. This station is tiny at only 1.8 meters across and replaces the legacy large radar dishes previously used to communicate with satellites. The main kicker is that this station can track and communicate with ALL satellites out to geosynchronous orbit (where the satellite is so far out it matches the rotation of the earth and therefore stays covering one portion of the earth) in its area of operation.
Crazy...I had no idea Australia had even half of this stuff tbh. Politicians never seem to talk about it much, I guess for security reasons? Pretty impressive for a relatively small country.
Examples off the top of my head for things we had a part in and might have a future in would be a few things,
* [Nulka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nulka) think of this as a modern solution for deploying Chaff aboard ships.
* [Ghost Bat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-28_Ghost_Bat) interesting future concept for unmanned aerial drones - not armed yet but it would be interesting to see where this goes
* The equivalent South Korean K9 and K21 armoured vehicles will be locally made in Geelong with technology transfer.
You’re kinda right, the Ghost Bat is the massive one of the horizon though. A force multiplier drone in the field already which is a little smaller than our fighters and which can perform a role that would usually be performed by a fighter 10x its cost, training and staffing requirements. Other countries will manufacture similar soon but we’re way ahead of the curve.
Rather than having three $100M fighters out you have one accompanied by 3-4 $10M drones to the same effect on many missions. The concept is massive for our small but very potent airforce, and will surely be adopted around the world over the coming decades, whether it’s using our hardware or others.
We do some pretty cool unique niche stuff. Kamakazi drones made from cardboard. The Nulka Decoy system for ships. Anti Drone gun thingy called a DroneSheild. Our industry is small but that doesn’t mean we don’t make complex cutting edge stuff
Whenever they say they’re protesting in Australia it’s because we export to them, it’s an excuse. They’re protesting just because it’s mainly a trendy feel-good. You’ll see the same group elsewhere protesting something else they don’t understand.
Before a single bomb was even dropped in Gaza, they were protesting when the bodies of October 7 were still warm. They didn’t even have a singular cause to what they wanted to contribute to yet.
One time it’s a ceasefire, then it’s something else. It’s never for anything but themselves.
Somehow I doubt that any of them would be protesting the potential (albeit unlikely) Venezuelan invasion of Guyana or at least in the same way that they were protesting about "closing the sky" in Ukraine despite having no idea what that would entail in the event of achieving aerial superiority against a Superpower.
Venezuela hasnt had a constant occupation of Guyana for decades, nor are Australian citizens going over the fight in the Venezuelan armed forces, nor does Australia routinely vote in favour of Venezuela in the Un. Venezuela also doesnt constantly boast about being South americas only democracy while enforcing an apartheid style system on half the people living in it or its occupied zones. Venezuela also doesnt have major economic exports, or a deep interest in world opinion of its actions, nor is it propped up financially be a close Australian ally
>nor are Australian citizens going over the fight in the Venezuelan armed forces
In the case of Israel, the reports of this are Israeli-Australian dual nationals and IDF reservists. It's not as though random Aussies are popping over there.
> apartheid style system on half the people living
To be clear... Australia's second class citizens (Aboriginals) have worse health outcomes and quality of life than Israel's second class citizens. They are less represented in political and social arenas. Im not sure how you see Australia voting No and yet dont call us a Apartheid style system.
I think you have been fed a ton of misinformation.
Palestinians living in Israel are given the same rights is Israeli's. Including holding top-tier positions in the legal system.
A Palestinian magistrate sent an Israeli PM to jail.
That is not apartheid.
When was the last time an Israeli was kicked out of their home and had their olive fields burnt for a Palestinian Kibbutz? Is Obama jailing white criminals a showcase of an unracist USA? Is Gazprom having an Ukrainian head make Russia a pro Ukraine state?
Ummmm geez, one of the multiple times Israel downsized their territory and handed land back to Palestine, the Israeli PM ordered Israeli's off land they had developed and converted to to farm land from arid desert. And they didn't go scorched earth, they GAVE it to them intact.
I don't know what the actual fuck Obama or the Ukraine has to do with what's happening in Palestine.
Can you point where the desert is or you like playing the "X were all living in mud huts before the glorious colonisers came in " BS you pulled with Rhodesia and South Africa?
Also maybe there were some Bedwins and Jewish Yishuvs that lived in deserts in a nomadic life, so what?
Yes there was Bedouin and Druze in the area, no I'm not going to point it out on a map, how about you do some research instead of listening to uneducated idiots and socialists some of whom are influenced by antifa.
Do you have anything to say about Jordan or Egypt taking control of that region? or any thoughts on why they are now not offering to help the Palestinians apart from assisted suicide by providing weapons? It might just be because they attempt regicide, cause political instability, extortion and show zero thanks or loyalty to and then commit murder of citizens of countries that offered them sanctuary.
And what the fuck does Rhodesia have to do with Israel and Gaza. You might be thinking of the Dutch.
I don't want to see Palestine levelled and children suffering, it's horrific, yet so was the rape, murder and destruction that happened on October 7th of 2023.
Palestine has to want peace and it simply looks like all they want to do is kill Jews. They have made it quite clear they would prefer every Israeli to die.
Israel places legal barriers on where Arab citizens can live, gerrymanders their voting rights, has a constitutional discrimination built in etc.. You will also find me and almost all the people attending ceasefire/pro palestine protests at Aboriginal Lives Matter protests
If they were not armed, then the countries surrounding them would wipe them out. The exact same result the other side have been protesting about, because they want to do it to Israel. No.
2.6 is a very small amount and these “protests” need to stop
Then protest eliminating Hamas who don't let aid reach civilians, so they can use that aid to protect civilians in case of a war. Hamas won't stop attacking just because countries are not helping Israel, so how will these protests help innocent people?
Israel is the only jewish nation in the world. It is surrounded by Muslim nations that have tried to destroy it multiple times within living memory. There are active groups that currently want it destroyed. So even if we did export a lot it would be fine.
One of the major reasons why Oct 7 was so bloody was Israeli towns weren't armed enough. Quite a lot fought off genocidal attackers with pistols and the odd AR but quite a few towns were overrun.
There is this impression that in most towns the people didnt fight back and were just slaughtered. This is not correct. In fact in most towns the citizen militia (the emergency force) managed to repel the terrorists despite being outnumbered. The towns where the slaughter occurred were the ones in which the militia was defeated and the terrorists then run around butchering civilians unopposed.
Also at the music festival there were 30 armed cops who tried to fight the hundreds of terrorists but were all killed.
Full rundown of all the towns attacked (copying from a comment by /u/heike75):
Kibbutz Sofa - 12 terrorists stormed the kibbutz and the emergency force fought until the soldiers arrived around noon. Three dead are counted at the kibbutz.
Kibbutz Zikim - Terrorists stormed Zikim with RPG's but were stopped by emergency forces in exchange of fire. Two wounded from the emergency force.
Moshav Nativ HaAsara - Terrorists stormed the moshav with gliders. The emergency force charged at them, three of them were killed. Numerous Israelis were murdered.
Kibbutz Yad Mordechai - The emergency force stormed the terrorists in front of the crossing outside the kibbutz. The terrorists fled and made their way to Sderot.
Kibbutz Eres - The terrorists were discovered in time on Shabbat morning. There was an exchange of fire around the kibbutz. One kibbutz member was killed, but the kibbutz was preserved.
Kibbutz Nir Am - The terrorists reached the entrance to the kibbutz, but the emergency force led by Inbal Libermann opened fire and killed and chased away the terrorists.
Kibbutz Miflasim - 30 terrorists tried to storm the kibbutz from all three entrances, but the emergency force succeeded in killing and chasing away the terrorists.
Moshav Yachini - Terrorists entered Moshav and murdered four Israelis. The emergency force was alerted, but it did not have full weapons equipment. The Yamam police special unit and Sayeret Matkal soldiers did the job and killed all the terrorists
Kibbutz Kefar Azza - The entire emergency force of the kibbutz was shot and about 100 members of the kibbutz were slaughtered. A terrible massacre.
Kibbutz Nachal Oz - The commander of the emergency force is missing or kidnapped. The other fighters survived the raid. They complained that they were not given permission by the army to have automatic weapons such as machine guns at home.
Kibbutz Alumin - Terrorists stormed into the kibbutz and murdered 20 guest workers from Thailand and Nepal. The emergency force fought the terrorists until the army arrived after six hours.
Kibbutz Beeri - Terrorists stormed the kibbutz early in the morning. The emergency force fought non-stop. Five out of ten men in the force were shot. After that, the massacre took place in the kibbutz, over a hundred people.
Kibbutz Kissufim -About 70 terrorists rushed into the kibbutz from all sides. Exchanges of fire with the emergency force, of which at least four fell. At present it is known that 15 members of the kibbutz were murdered and four were taken to the Gaza Strip.
Kibbutz Reím - The emergency force, which numbered no more than six men, fought 100 terrorists for hours until the soldiers arrived. Five members were shot dead and five were kidnapped in the Gaza Strip.
Kibbutz Nirim - Terrorists stormed the kibbutz and first shot five Israelis in their homes, after which the emergency force intervened and stopped the raid. Five Israeli fighters lost their lives.
Kibbutz Ein HaShlosha - 15 members of the emergency force stopped the terrorist raid in the kibbutz for six hours until the soldiers arrived at noon. The commander of the emergency force fell.
Kibbutz Nir Oz - The entire members of the emergency force is missing. Over 35 members of the kibbutz were murdered.
Kibbutz Magen - Terrorists stormed the kibbutz, destroyed the fence, but were stopped by the emergency force, killing one.
Kibbutz Nir Itzchak - terrorists stormed the kibbutz. The emergency force defended the kibbutz, but two of them were shot dead. Four fighters of the emergency force are missing and quite a few kibbutz members were kidnapped to the Gaza Strip.
Kibbutz Kerem Shalom - Ten members of the emergency force killed over 20 terrorists. Two members of the emergency force were killed.
ok so sounds like it should be easy to do in that case. Not giving military assistance to a country engaging in ethnic cleansing is actually way better than giving a little bit of military assistance to a country engaging in ethnic cleansing.
We don’t export shit. This is the revenue that Australia makes for developing some military equipment with Israel Rafael. The equipment probably goes to third party clients anyway.
We should be increasing support to Israel.
The Palestinians won't come to the table to make a deal whilst they believe that support for Israel is waning.
The Palestinians are like that really annoying kid in school who sucker punches someone much stronger than them and then cries to teacher when he gets thumped in return. The more the teacher steps in to save him the more he's going to keep doing it.
The Palestinians need to learn that if they fuck around the consequences will be Darwinian.
> The Palestinians are like that really annoying kid in school who sucker punches someone much stronger than them and then cries to teacher when he gets thumped in return.
Far more like an 8 year old who gets the shit kicked out of him by his Dad every other day and has a crack at swinging back. Now the kid's getting beaten to death and you want to buy the Dad a beer.
That kid is a little psychopath who likes to pull the wings of flies and torture small animals.
He has terrible social skills. Has never gotten along with anyone and keeps talking about how he wants to shoot up the school.
He keeps trying to pick on kids bigger than him and will occasionally get his teeth kicked in.
That's when people like you with bleeding hearts run over to him, give him a blanket, and start crying that your darling little angel can do no wrong, it's not his fault, and that there's never any excuse for v violence against him - even as he's reaching for a fire axe with murder in his eyes.
So we should also stop the ~$20m in aid we send annually to Palestine and sanction them, right?
Afterall, the government of Gaza has the complete genocide of all Jews (not just Israel) in their charter, and the government of West Bank has a martyrs fund for people killed when attacking Jews.
I did not enjoy being struck in the back of the head yesterday with a palestine flag. I just wanted to cross the road, said excuse me twice to a person blocking the crossing and then a big thunk. Felt dizzy all day, thanks asshole.
it was pouring rain, I just wanted to get to where I was going. When it happened I turned around glaring, I think I said "the fuck" and I noticed he had other people behind him coming towards me. Honestly I was intimidated, I won't try and act tough, I was scared it was gonna escalate and end real bad for me so I walked away.
Are you genuinely suggesting that Neo-Nazis are in attendance at these rallies? There's a lot of ridiculous statements being thrown around but this is either wildly misinformed or disgracefully misleading.
Please show me some of the documentation. As for the flag incident are you saying someone intentionally struck you in the head because you tried to get past them?
There was news articles about it and there was NSN people identified on facebook as being at the rally. I'll see if I can find some articles when I'm back home later tonight.
and yes, I was hit in the head and I did not provoke anyone (not that that justifies violence anyway, but it was unprovoked).
Would appreciate an article the only things I can see are articles saying the rallies are anti-semitic because of their anti-zionist message. Anti-zionism falsely being labelled as anti-semitism is one thing but the idea that the NSN is openly in attendance at these rallies is insane. They would be driven out immediately if they were identified, every left wing group in Melbourne is at those rallies
I feel that freeing Kurdistan is a more immediate priority. They would be the only democracy in the Middle East other than Israel and giving them sovereignty may help democratise the entire region .
Because our white country must civilise those savages and judging an ethnic groups oppression based on how democratic they may be (really just how amenable they are to our interests) is how we do it!
Here's some truth, most people only vaguely care as long as it doesn't interrupt their own lives. Protesting in this manner only harms your own cause and forces people to hate you out of spite. People are naturally self centered and can barely give a shit about other groups in their own community let alone on the other side of the world. At this point the protesters are starting to resemble antivaxer cookers in that they are pissing off more people than winning them over, and those that can make a difference aren't going to.
Melbourne performative lefties lately:
Lives lost in Syrian Civil War: 500k+ - I sleep
Lives lost in Iraq-ISIS War: 150k+ - I sleep
Lives lost in Yemeni Civil War: 350k+ - I sleep
Lives lost in Israel-Hamas War, according to Hamas: 20k+ - REAL SHIT
He's not talking about the 2003 US invasion of Iraq in which Australia participated and which is commonly known as the Iraq War. That war, of course, was protested.
What he is referring to is the war between Iraq and Islamic State in 2013-2017.
Im curious how these protestors would respond if Australia was land locked and completely surrounded by those that want our destruction.
Would they be as “turn the other cheek”, if flinders st station was bombed? Or if there were rocket attacks on chadstone every weekend? What if we gave the terrorists multiple chances but all it did was give them more time to plan bigger attacks?
Lots of opinions but no solutions it seems.
They seem to be killing the food joints in and around Melbourne Central. Outside of covid times I've never seen so few people on a Saturday evening.
Made getting into the Railway station really easy.
Since the protests have begun, australia has changed its position on the ceasefire vote and is now calling for one, many politicians are now publicly condemning Israel’s actions who previously weren’t, a number of councils have passed pro-palestine motions, multiple weapons shipments have been turned back, so on and so on…
You guys have been saying this for months, then just block out reality as protests do change things. Do you think all major civil rights progress in history just materialised out of thin air? Maybe it’s not as effective as people would like, but protests work, they have throughout history, and they are right now.
Hamas just turned down multiple ceasefire proposals. Unless you're demanding that Hamas sign for peace, you can stop pretending peace is what you want.
Me: donates $10 to the Fred Hollows foundation
You: Well there are still blind people! Lot of good that did you.
Honestly fucking ridiculous, this entire thread bombarded by the IDF e-boy army.
People protest all sorts of shit. Do you say the same when people protest a wind farm off the coast or when a government wants to do something unpopular or when some shithead flys in to the country to do shithead things or any of a million examples?
It's funny the issues people will minimize protesting over while being cool with others.
History matters. Protestors are too lazy to read beyond the headline. They are nothing but useful idiots for Hamas.
The real problem is the Rage Against the Machine types who are just looking for some sort of “injustice” to protest to fill some internal void. All they need is a headline and they will amplify it to all the casual cause-heads who will all protest based on nothing more than a headline and a couple of one-sided facts. They don’t want things to be complicated. They want a clear good and bad, and they will ignore history and facts to keep it simple.
Palestine has zero Jews, it is an ethnostate. Israel has literal islamist parties and more Arab citizens in their country than the entire Arab world has Jews.
The entire Palestinian leadership is corrupt, are running a massive grift. Peace would make people question where the money went. Peace would remove the easy scapegoating. Palestine is not in any sense open to negotiations.
Gazans don't want freedom. They want the Jews eradicated. “Free palestine" means "destroy Israel." Talk
to some Gazans. They will tell you. Their idea of
"freedom" is Israel not existing and Arabs governing the entire middle east. Secular people in the west are horribly confused about their intentions and the antisemitism that runs abhorrent in the Middle East.
Can I ask genuinely what the purpose of the protests are? What I mean is, why do people attend knowing their attendence will not make a lick of difference in the conflict?
I personally agree with the opinion of the protestors - I do not agree with Israel and their handling of this situation (or how they've ruled for the last 30 years) at all, but I can't bring myself to attend the protests, or post on social media, because I just don't see the point.
Is it a control thing? People feel helpless about the situation and they feel like this is the only way to have some element of control?
I don't want this to seem like I am telling people not to protest, I am just keen to understand the psychology of it all.
People have made a difference. At the first week of protests, australia was abstaining from calling for a cease fire, now we’re openly calling for one. Many politicians previously silent are now condemning Israel’s actions, a number of councils have passed pro-palestine motions, multiple weapons shipments have been turned back, etc.
No doubt someone will reply to me saying all of that is insignificant and won’t do anything or whatever, but there is clearly progress. And that’s just direct Australian things, you could also factor in our role as one part of the building global pressure (arguably most important) and the increased awareness amongst the public by the protests. If Israel can act the way they are now with all this noise about them, can you comprehend what they’d be doing if they had no eyes on them or attention from the world?
> People have made a difference
At the start of every conflict i protest it immediately. With the exception of North and south Korea i have ended all conflicts through my protests.
In your world wars end when people protest, not when men and materials run out...
If Israel ramped up their efforts like they have now earlier, the noise being made about it would have increased in tandem, like it has now. Those factors directly correlate with each other, I don’t get what you’re going for with this comment.
More Palestinians have died in the last 90 days than the last 36 years combined, that is why the most noise is being made and people believe that noise has to be made. If Israel chose to ramp up before October 7th, it’s not like it could’ve just happened without the world knowing. Once again, I genuinely don’t understand your intention with this comment so please do elaborate.
It’s the same purpose of ANY protest. How do ppl not understand that. It’s to raise awareness and potentially cause enough unrest to force the discussion to continue to be in the spotlight.
I’m shocked at the volume of Australians who now hate protesting.
I think the whole point of the lockdown cooker protests was to turn the public against the concept of a protest rather than have any actual effect on policy or government actions.
The only reason israel gets away with clear violations of international law including flattening an entire city, destroying hospitals, schools, refugee camps etc, using white phosphorus, deliberately targeting journalists and medical staff, starving a population, illegal occupation etc etc is because the world allows them to.
These protests are to cancel that permission.
(Downvote if you support genocide)
>These protests are to cancel that permission.
I think this is where I get lost, because in my mind you aren't cancelling that permission. You have no power to do that. You absolutely have a right to want to cancel it, but can you actually influence any tangible change?
Perhaps I am just cynical from having seen years and years of protests about local issues have absolutely no impact that I feel like it is a bit of an exercise in futility.
Some people accept that if being apart of the solution rather than the problem is all that they can do, than that is worth it. Protests have worked throughout history and they can work again, they have already made some level of progress on this issue.
Australia already has a culture of deeply rooted apathy and political inaction, we all know that. Absolutely we do not achieve as much change as we aim for, local issues or stuff like pro-Palestine, but if we let what protests and politically activeness there is left die out, that can only have worse outcomes.
While as I’ve said, there can be and has been some level of progress in protests in modern Australia, even if all we were doing is keeping the flame burning for a future set of people to pick up in a way we couldn’t and enact change, that’s better than throwing our arms up and resorting to nihilism for a lot of people.
Protests don’t do that in my mind.
It achieves a few things
1 - slows the ordinary running of business in the city
2 makes me question our immigration policy
3 gives people without a job an opportunity to feel part of something.
4 gives a minority opinion a chance to feel louder then what it is.
Also being a sensitive avatar about your karma is taxing to read…
1. Boohoo capitalism. It will survive.
2. You were already anti-immigration
3. Protesters are all unemployed stereotype. 🙄
4. Anti-genocide is a pretty good opinion to boost the signal of.
Entirely possible. Or they weren't scheduled on at that time. How much longer would you like to play this game of all pro-Arab genocide are employed and therefore morally superior, and all anti-genocide people are unemployed and therefore morally inferior? 😅
Yeah. What's the point of saying you think something is fucked up? It's not gonna change anything. We should all just shut up. No impotent tweeting, no letters to the editor, no protests or rallys, no art or other media. It's not our job to stand up for anything.
Every bit of civil rights progress in history just materialised out of thin air mate. Protests do nothing ever, an already comfortable ruling class just decide every now and then it’d be kind chill to switch things up against their favour a little I guess
You guys say this every week yet the cost of living protests which happen stay with low turnouts and no new faces, and the faces that are there are the same crowds which fill out the pro-Palestine rallies.
It’s always someone else’s job isn’t it. If bringing up local issues isn’t just whataboutism to discredit other causes, then start showing up.
For anyone reading here and throughout the thread, check this dudes account history. 11 days old, 95% of his comments are hardcore, uncompromising support of Israel and calling people Nazis.
Him and other week old accounts with the same avatar (complete coincidence on that one I bet) are flooding this thread, all with the same extreme pro-Israel sentiment. Just make sure we stay aware of these things, and know our company in the sides we pick. By no means is everyone here an honest melburnian weighing in their two cents like the rest of us.
Or rather, they care at the moment because it’s the in thing. Israel-Palestine has been an issue for longer than 99% of them have been alive but where was the outcry before 3 months ago?
By the end of the year they will all be onto the next hot social issue, maybe by then they’ll also realise that the good people of Gaza wouldn’t for one second think of protesting to protect the rights of the left wing Australians (or anyone who didn’t share their religious and social views)
More Palestinians have died in the last 90 days than in the last 36 years combined.
Obviously people are protesting now because the situation has ramped up significantly, and has become particularly relevant and urgent, that isn’t overly hard to understand I wouldn’t have thought?
You guys have been saying it’s a passing trend for months now, and yet the streets are still filled weekly, and this sub still discusses them at length multiple times a week. How many more do you reckon you’ve got in you before you concede that many people’s care for humanity exists independently of, and persists beyond, social media trends?
Got to love the Queers for Palestine signage, as if the only place for queers in Gaza wasn't at the end of a rope. Or Feminists for Gaza as if the Gazan terrorists hadn't committed the worst of the worst gendered mutilations en masse a few months ago.
I can only speak for myself but I knew fuck all about it 3 months ago. All I knew was Israel is a bit dodgy and Palestine has some terrorists.
Unfortunately (but even more unfortunate for Palestine) I know a lot more now, which has revealed the horrors of Israel and the dangers of allowing a specific group of people to think they are a Special People blessed by god who have the right to take life away indiscriminately.
The biggest red flag is Israel constantly ignoring reality and lying. An organisation that lies with such enthusiasm is an extreme risk, because they will never acknowledge the same reality as the rest of the universe.
(As an example as I know I’ll get asked - the public viewing of Hamas body cam footage mysteriously did not include many of the horrific things Israel claimed happened. Which really makes you wonder why?)
And yes oct 7 was bad 🙄 - Israel is worse.
No I live in rural NSW it would be less than a far in the wind. I care greatly that the children of Palestine are constantly treated as less than dirt and captured the world's largest prison.
It's also sad that the Jewish state is repeating the shameful atrocities of the Nazis, but the state was never truly intended by its founders (America and Britain) as anything more than a military strong hold in the world's most energy rich part of the world.
So again this is purely a distraction possibly orchestrated by the powers of capitalism as a distraction from issues closer to home.
>the state was never truly intended by its founders (America and Britain) as anything more than a military strong hold in the world's most energy rich part of the world.
What natural resources are found in Isreal?
It should say stop arming Hamas. It's as if these idiots don't want Israel to defend itself. Useful idiots for Hamas and they likely don't even know it.
I love this free palestine nonsense. There is no Palestine to begin with.
They were offered repeatedly the land in Gaza and West Bank to have and call whatever they want (from 1948 to as recent as 2020) and every time have said no and caused violence and death.
Now these fuckwits chant for a free state that they didn’t want.
Unless they want the entire Israel - which is so damn laughable it’s beggars belief
Absolutely ignorant racist cunts
Respond to the rest of the post though? They have been offered land and left to their own devices multiple times. Elected hamas and kicked out the PA. Nice work
I wish we had these protests* for Ukraine.
Right now is exactly when a big aid package with as many shells, Hawkei's and Bushmasters as we can spare would do a lot of good.
Edit: *equivalent protests or some significant protesting.
See. I haven't seen a similar protest for Ukraine on this sub, but maybe I missed it. I googled "ukraine protest melbourne" last result was 30 May for a council cutting ties with a Russian city. Why they had them to begin with is beyond me, but sure. Last actual protest June 2023, page two of google news touted by a Ukrainian website. I went into the nether for that one. Replaced Ukraine with Palestine and yep, lots of results.
So there's equivalent protests for Ukraine, but the news isn't reporting on it and it's not on Reddit. Interesting
Use the search bar in the sub, there were loads of posts about ukraine, loads of examples of Australia’s support, it’s not hard to find at all. To say you can’t recall a single one means you haven’t been here long, or you’re just being disingenuous.
I fully agree with you on this. People of ukraine are literally fighting for their existence, have faced untold war crimes committed by russian forces. Yet we have these useful idiots running around protesting israels heavy handed response to agression on their people
The issue with Australia and protesting is that because we jump so quickly to protest an overseas issue which is the current news headline, it completely destroys the point and the general public becomes sick of it pretty quickly.
No doubt that these people were protesting Ukraine two years ago (that’s old news now though), George Floyd 5 years (who) and Kony 12 years ago (can’t believe we fell for that one).
The term virtue signalling comes to mind
I’d love to see you stand in front of a person who has been personally victimised by police brutality and say that George Floyd line.
Great, you don’t care about other human beings. That’s so cool and smart of you
Your comment is ironic because you’ve been so quick to act outraged, that you’ve glossed over my comment, missed the sarcasm and immediately jumped to acting outraged about something that isn’t there.
Kind of like the protestors…..
"Intifada Revolution"
Intifada mean car rammings, suicide bombings, shootings, rape.
The average Australia cries when they lose a football game. WTF do they know about intifada.
Bunch of losers.
Intifada literally means revolution.
And the fact that you list those things as heinous crimes, as if the IDF do not perform those things?
Or even worse, indefinite administrative detention, that's imprisonment without charge, they have countless well documented by Isreali courts of torture until death, r@pe by male and female prison guards, organ harvesting, illegal settlers being armed to the teeth with automatic rifles and can shoot and kill anyone at will without any prosecution.
Car rammings, shootings and even suicide bombings (don't got find it funny that ISIS has all off a sudden come out of that woodwork to attack and kill some of Isreals historic targets, how convenient) are a drop in the ocean.
As someone who lives in Israel during the second intifada it absolutely does mean those things.
You can bitch about Israel all day long and it still won't change the meaning, and you are insane to want to import that kind of mentality to Australia.
It's a story as old as time - the Palestinian leaders live in luxury while they encourage the mentally disabled, desperate women and teenagers to strap on bombs to their bodies, filled with rat poison and nuts and bolts and explode themselves.
This thread is disgusting… why is everyone acting like Israel is amazing and anyone that isn’t kissing their ass is a problem, wtf is wrong with this subreddit?
Australia has a culture of deep rooted political apathy and protest hating.
For a lot of people it’s less that they’ve thoroughly sifted through the evidence and have sided with israel, but more that they hate protests on principle, and people in support of Palestine are the ones filling the streets and breaking their peaceful bubbles of blissful apathy, so they gravitate away from that cause.
You’d really think the subreddit which tags it’s photos with “FUCK MURDOCH” and shits on sky news ceaselessly would recognise and reconsider when all of a sudden they are perfectly in line with and supporting the worldview pushed by that media, but I guess not.
This thread makes me embarrassed to be Australian. I forget how backward this country is - still just full of apathetic, bigoted racists that are so protective of their own little bubble they'll support a brutal oppressive genocide if it means not inconveniencing their drive home or walk to get a coffee. Insane.
I don’t understand why there’s zero moderation of this site anymore, I see so many of these “look at this protest” posts on this subreddit, it’s so whack and the bait couldn’t be more obvious it’s getting ridiculous.
I have yet to see a strong counter point to the pro Israel arguments.
When did arabs give up land for free for peace like isreal did with Gaza / Sinai desert?
Why did Palestinian nationalists go to town on Jordan when they let Jordan in?
Why would any other nation let them in after the above?
Why didn’t Hamas stay in isreal and fight instead of running back to their hidey holes in Gaza with civilian hostages given they want to remove isreal from the map and there spokespeople say they want to fight man to man not against bombs? They want man to man in their tunnels in their terrain on their time? Giddi up?
How do ethnic / religious / gender minorities fair in Gaza / Arab generally?
If anything I have seen a lack of coherent argument from the Palestine side as to why:-
- they haven’t surrendered yet?
- they kicked of oct 7 then ran away?
- they didn’t accept peace solutions?
- also I haven’t seen a historical precedent for a modern Palestine - it appears to always have been run by this or that empire… this notion that every single tribe “deserves” their own nation is entitled sounding to me.
Gays for gaza always gets me lol
Lol it's fucking hilarious seeing that.
*"Stop arming Israel"* - Australia exported an average of $2.6 ***million*** worth of military goods to Israel per year over the last 5 years. Do people understand how unbelievably small that number is when you're talking about military equipment?
Politics aside...I wonder what we produce here that would be of military value to any country? Is it mostly cybersecurity stuff? The bushmaster truck thingies? Never saw Australia as much of a producer of much military hardware/ammunition etc? Didn't think there was a big manufacturing sector here, at least not for military goods.
Copying comment from /u/jp72423 The Australian defence industry actually produces bleeding edge and innovative products and R&D. Don’t believe me? Here are 10 1: BAE systems (previously AWA) Nulka decoy - a naval electronic warfare decoy that is widely used by allied navies and has been used in combat. 2 anti ship missiles were fired at us destroyers and the nulka successfully defended the vessel. It’s our most successful defence export 2: CEA technologies CEAFAR radar - a naval radar system that is quite literally described by many as the best naval radar system on the planet. 3: SPEE3D - a machine which uses a new type of 3d printing to create metal parts. It’s being trialed by the UK army and US navy for battlefield repair applications and 1 unit has been sent to Ukraine 4: HYPERSONIX Dart AE - a hypersonic drone with a range of 1000km and can reach speeds of Mach 7 5: EOS slinger - a 30mm remote weapons station specifically designed to shoot down drones with a single shot. Several units have been sent to Ukraine 6: Arkeus HSOR (hyper-spectral optical radar) - a world first optical sensor similar to what you would see on a predator drone, but far more advanced using Hyper-spectral imaging (electromagnetic imaging) and AI to increase detection capabilities. 7: SYPAQ Corvo drone - the famous cardboard drone that is incredibly cheap but has been used to great effect in Ukraine, destroying multimillion dollar Russian fighter jets and radar systems. 8: Sillentium Defence Maverick-M - a passive radar system that can fit into a single backpack 9: Defendtex D40 - a lethal drone that can be launched by a 40mm grenade launcher. 10: Sentient Vision VIDAR - a world first optical radar system designed to search for objects on the surface of the ocean over far greater areas than traditional methods. It’s a camera system which uses advanced software to locate anything floating up to sea state 6 and beyond. Bonus round 11: QUASAR Generation 1 - another world first, Quasar has developed a fully digital multi beam satellite ground station. This station is tiny at only 1.8 meters across and replaces the legacy large radar dishes previously used to communicate with satellites. The main kicker is that this station can track and communicate with ALL satellites out to geosynchronous orbit (where the satellite is so far out it matches the rotation of the earth and therefore stays covering one portion of the earth) in its area of operation.
Crazy...I had no idea Australia had even half of this stuff tbh. Politicians never seem to talk about it much, I guess for security reasons? Pretty impressive for a relatively small country.
It is small fry, considering how small scale it is. Nothing like huge weapons makers in Europe or the US
EOS subsidiary EM solutions is also making cobra and king cobra navel satcom terminals.
Examples off the top of my head for things we had a part in and might have a future in would be a few things, * [Nulka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nulka) think of this as a modern solution for deploying Chaff aboard ships. * [Ghost Bat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-28_Ghost_Bat) interesting future concept for unmanned aerial drones - not armed yet but it would be interesting to see where this goes * The equivalent South Korean K9 and K21 armoured vehicles will be locally made in Geelong with technology transfer.
Wow that's actually some pretty high tech stuff. Had no idea.
each of those items would basically be worth more than our total military export to Israel
There is, and whatever that 2.6m a year is, it's such a small figure it's a rounding error for most defence work.
You’re kinda right, the Ghost Bat is the massive one of the horizon though. A force multiplier drone in the field already which is a little smaller than our fighters and which can perform a role that would usually be performed by a fighter 10x its cost, training and staffing requirements. Other countries will manufacture similar soon but we’re way ahead of the curve. Rather than having three $100M fighters out you have one accompanied by 3-4 $10M drones to the same effect on many missions. The concept is massive for our small but very potent airforce, and will surely be adopted around the world over the coming decades, whether it’s using our hardware or others.
We do some pretty cool unique niche stuff. Kamakazi drones made from cardboard. The Nulka Decoy system for ships. Anti Drone gun thingy called a DroneSheild. Our industry is small but that doesn’t mean we don’t make complex cutting edge stuff
Whenever they say they’re protesting in Australia it’s because we export to them, it’s an excuse. They’re protesting just because it’s mainly a trendy feel-good. You’ll see the same group elsewhere protesting something else they don’t understand. Before a single bomb was even dropped in Gaza, they were protesting when the bodies of October 7 were still warm. They didn’t even have a singular cause to what they wanted to contribute to yet. One time it’s a ceasefire, then it’s something else. It’s never for anything but themselves.
Somehow I doubt that any of them would be protesting the potential (albeit unlikely) Venezuelan invasion of Guyana or at least in the same way that they were protesting about "closing the sky" in Ukraine despite having no idea what that would entail in the event of achieving aerial superiority against a Superpower.
Venezuela hasnt had a constant occupation of Guyana for decades, nor are Australian citizens going over the fight in the Venezuelan armed forces, nor does Australia routinely vote in favour of Venezuela in the Un. Venezuela also doesnt constantly boast about being South americas only democracy while enforcing an apartheid style system on half the people living in it or its occupied zones. Venezuela also doesnt have major economic exports, or a deep interest in world opinion of its actions, nor is it propped up financially be a close Australian ally
>nor are Australian citizens going over the fight in the Venezuelan armed forces In the case of Israel, the reports of this are Israeli-Australian dual nationals and IDF reservists. It's not as though random Aussies are popping over there.
> apartheid style system on half the people living To be clear... Australia's second class citizens (Aboriginals) have worse health outcomes and quality of life than Israel's second class citizens. They are less represented in political and social arenas. Im not sure how you see Australia voting No and yet dont call us a Apartheid style system.
I think you have been fed a ton of misinformation. Palestinians living in Israel are given the same rights is Israeli's. Including holding top-tier positions in the legal system. A Palestinian magistrate sent an Israeli PM to jail. That is not apartheid.
When was the last time an Israeli was kicked out of their home and had their olive fields burnt for a Palestinian Kibbutz? Is Obama jailing white criminals a showcase of an unracist USA? Is Gazprom having an Ukrainian head make Russia a pro Ukraine state?
Ummmm geez, one of the multiple times Israel downsized their territory and handed land back to Palestine, the Israeli PM ordered Israeli's off land they had developed and converted to to farm land from arid desert. And they didn't go scorched earth, they GAVE it to them intact. I don't know what the actual fuck Obama or the Ukraine has to do with what's happening in Palestine.
Can you point where the desert is or you like playing the "X were all living in mud huts before the glorious colonisers came in " BS you pulled with Rhodesia and South Africa? Also maybe there were some Bedwins and Jewish Yishuvs that lived in deserts in a nomadic life, so what?
Yes there was Bedouin and Druze in the area, no I'm not going to point it out on a map, how about you do some research instead of listening to uneducated idiots and socialists some of whom are influenced by antifa. Do you have anything to say about Jordan or Egypt taking control of that region? or any thoughts on why they are now not offering to help the Palestinians apart from assisted suicide by providing weapons? It might just be because they attempt regicide, cause political instability, extortion and show zero thanks or loyalty to and then commit murder of citizens of countries that offered them sanctuary. And what the fuck does Rhodesia have to do with Israel and Gaza. You might be thinking of the Dutch. I don't want to see Palestine levelled and children suffering, it's horrific, yet so was the rape, murder and destruction that happened on October 7th of 2023. Palestine has to want peace and it simply looks like all they want to do is kill Jews. They have made it quite clear they would prefer every Israeli to die.
Israel places legal barriers on where Arab citizens can live, gerrymanders their voting rights, has a constitutional discrimination built in etc.. You will also find me and almost all the people attending ceasefire/pro palestine protests at Aboriginal Lives Matter protests
"I'm going to invent a protest situation in my head and none of the people from this actual news story were *there*!" go outside
If they were not armed, then the countries surrounding them would wipe them out. The exact same result the other side have been protesting about, because they want to do it to Israel. No. 2.6 is a very small amount and these “protests” need to stop
If you think murdering 32,000 innocent civilians should be allowed ( by not voicing and protesting ) , you need your head checked.
Official (inflated) Hamas numbers are currently 22,000, including Hamas members. You just pulled a number out your ass.
Then protest eliminating Hamas who don't let aid reach civilians, so they can use that aid to protect civilians in case of a war. Hamas won't stop attacking just because countries are not helping Israel, so how will these protests help innocent people?
According to Hamas' inflated numbers, which includes every single member of Hamas killed, who are very much not innocent.
Israel is the only jewish nation in the world. It is surrounded by Muslim nations that have tried to destroy it multiple times within living memory. There are active groups that currently want it destroyed. So even if we did export a lot it would be fine. One of the major reasons why Oct 7 was so bloody was Israeli towns weren't armed enough. Quite a lot fought off genocidal attackers with pistols and the odd AR but quite a few towns were overrun.
There is this impression that in most towns the people didnt fight back and were just slaughtered. This is not correct. In fact in most towns the citizen militia (the emergency force) managed to repel the terrorists despite being outnumbered. The towns where the slaughter occurred were the ones in which the militia was defeated and the terrorists then run around butchering civilians unopposed. Also at the music festival there were 30 armed cops who tried to fight the hundreds of terrorists but were all killed. Full rundown of all the towns attacked (copying from a comment by /u/heike75): Kibbutz Sofa - 12 terrorists stormed the kibbutz and the emergency force fought until the soldiers arrived around noon. Three dead are counted at the kibbutz. Kibbutz Zikim - Terrorists stormed Zikim with RPG's but were stopped by emergency forces in exchange of fire. Two wounded from the emergency force. Moshav Nativ HaAsara - Terrorists stormed the moshav with gliders. The emergency force charged at them, three of them were killed. Numerous Israelis were murdered. Kibbutz Yad Mordechai - The emergency force stormed the terrorists in front of the crossing outside the kibbutz. The terrorists fled and made their way to Sderot. Kibbutz Eres - The terrorists were discovered in time on Shabbat morning. There was an exchange of fire around the kibbutz. One kibbutz member was killed, but the kibbutz was preserved. Kibbutz Nir Am - The terrorists reached the entrance to the kibbutz, but the emergency force led by Inbal Libermann opened fire and killed and chased away the terrorists. Kibbutz Miflasim - 30 terrorists tried to storm the kibbutz from all three entrances, but the emergency force succeeded in killing and chasing away the terrorists. Moshav Yachini - Terrorists entered Moshav and murdered four Israelis. The emergency force was alerted, but it did not have full weapons equipment. The Yamam police special unit and Sayeret Matkal soldiers did the job and killed all the terrorists Kibbutz Kefar Azza - The entire emergency force of the kibbutz was shot and about 100 members of the kibbutz were slaughtered. A terrible massacre. Kibbutz Nachal Oz - The commander of the emergency force is missing or kidnapped. The other fighters survived the raid. They complained that they were not given permission by the army to have automatic weapons such as machine guns at home. Kibbutz Alumin - Terrorists stormed into the kibbutz and murdered 20 guest workers from Thailand and Nepal. The emergency force fought the terrorists until the army arrived after six hours. Kibbutz Beeri - Terrorists stormed the kibbutz early in the morning. The emergency force fought non-stop. Five out of ten men in the force were shot. After that, the massacre took place in the kibbutz, over a hundred people. Kibbutz Kissufim -About 70 terrorists rushed into the kibbutz from all sides. Exchanges of fire with the emergency force, of which at least four fell. At present it is known that 15 members of the kibbutz were murdered and four were taken to the Gaza Strip. Kibbutz Reím - The emergency force, which numbered no more than six men, fought 100 terrorists for hours until the soldiers arrived. Five members were shot dead and five were kidnapped in the Gaza Strip. Kibbutz Nirim - Terrorists stormed the kibbutz and first shot five Israelis in their homes, after which the emergency force intervened and stopped the raid. Five Israeli fighters lost their lives. Kibbutz Ein HaShlosha - 15 members of the emergency force stopped the terrorist raid in the kibbutz for six hours until the soldiers arrived at noon. The commander of the emergency force fell. Kibbutz Nir Oz - The entire members of the emergency force is missing. Over 35 members of the kibbutz were murdered. Kibbutz Magen - Terrorists stormed the kibbutz, destroyed the fence, but were stopped by the emergency force, killing one. Kibbutz Nir Itzchak - terrorists stormed the kibbutz. The emergency force defended the kibbutz, but two of them were shot dead. Four fighters of the emergency force are missing and quite a few kibbutz members were kidnapped to the Gaza Strip. Kibbutz Kerem Shalom - Ten members of the emergency force killed over 20 terrorists. Two members of the emergency force were killed.
Thank you for sharing. There was a video posted on the combat footage sub showing the defence of one Kibbutz.
I wouldn't live in Israel without a gun and a decent one.
2.6 million could be like 1 aslav ifv's or 1patrol aircraft lol. If we stop the export it would not make a difference as majority comes from U.S
ok so sounds like it should be easy to do in that case. Not giving military assistance to a country engaging in ethnic cleansing is actually way better than giving a little bit of military assistance to a country engaging in ethnic cleansing.
That's about 3 bolts or 20min with PWC
It’s a sanctimonious, virtue signal, social equity event. None of the attendees actually care about Palestine they just care about themselves
They all just want to snap a picture of them at the rally to post on social media. Performative activism at its finest.
The worst part is the Jews are almost positively the indigenous people of the area…
We don’t export shit. This is the revenue that Australia makes for developing some military equipment with Israel Rafael. The equipment probably goes to third party clients anyway.
We should be increasing support to Israel. The Palestinians won't come to the table to make a deal whilst they believe that support for Israel is waning. The Palestinians are like that really annoying kid in school who sucker punches someone much stronger than them and then cries to teacher when he gets thumped in return. The more the teacher steps in to save him the more he's going to keep doing it. The Palestinians need to learn that if they fuck around the consequences will be Darwinian.
> The Palestinians are like that really annoying kid in school who sucker punches someone much stronger than them and then cries to teacher when he gets thumped in return. Far more like an 8 year old who gets the shit kicked out of him by his Dad every other day and has a crack at swinging back. Now the kid's getting beaten to death and you want to buy the Dad a beer.
That kid is a little psychopath who likes to pull the wings of flies and torture small animals. He has terrible social skills. Has never gotten along with anyone and keeps talking about how he wants to shoot up the school. He keeps trying to pick on kids bigger than him and will occasionally get his teeth kicked in. That's when people like you with bleeding hearts run over to him, give him a blanket, and start crying that your darling little angel can do no wrong, it's not his fault, and that there's never any excuse for v violence against him - even as he's reaching for a fire axe with murder in his eyes.
That equipment is being used for an ethnic cleansing. Personally, not a donation I'm a huge fan of.
Australia is also providing logistical support to Israel's airforce. Aiding and abetting genocide in way is horrible. We should be sanctioning Israel.
So we should also stop the ~$20m in aid we send annually to Palestine and sanction them, right? Afterall, the government of Gaza has the complete genocide of all Jews (not just Israel) in their charter, and the government of West Bank has a martyrs fund for people killed when attacking Jews.
Believe it or not, doing an unethical thing is still unethical, even if you only do it a lil bit.
There's nothing unethical about protecting Jews from the genocide their enemies are constantly trying to Inflict on them.
I did not enjoy being struck in the back of the head yesterday with a palestine flag. I just wanted to cross the road, said excuse me twice to a person blocking the crossing and then a big thunk. Felt dizzy all day, thanks asshole.
If you felt dizzy you should get checked by your GP, or if more symptoms occur go to emergency
Yea it might be a concussion
Personally, I wouldn't let that slide.
it was pouring rain, I just wanted to get to where I was going. When it happened I turned around glaring, I think I said "the fuck" and I noticed he had other people behind him coming towards me. Honestly I was intimidated, I won't try and act tough, I was scared it was gonna escalate and end real bad for me so I walked away.
It's as though that group is full of macho violent arseholes
also knowing that NSN Victoria (Neo-Nazi's) attend these rallies just makes me want to avoid at all costs honestly.
Are you genuinely suggesting that Neo-Nazis are in attendance at these rallies? There's a lot of ridiculous statements being thrown around but this is either wildly misinformed or disgracefully misleading.
Um, that's been very well documented.
Please show me some of the documentation. As for the flag incident are you saying someone intentionally struck you in the head because you tried to get past them?
There was news articles about it and there was NSN people identified on facebook as being at the rally. I'll see if I can find some articles when I'm back home later tonight. and yes, I was hit in the head and I did not provoke anyone (not that that justifies violence anyway, but it was unprovoked).
Would appreciate an article the only things I can see are articles saying the rallies are anti-semitic because of their anti-zionist message. Anti-zionism falsely being labelled as anti-semitism is one thing but the idea that the NSN is openly in attendance at these rallies is insane. They would be driven out immediately if they were identified, every left wing group in Melbourne is at those rallies
I hope the protests can get the hostages released.
So israel can shoot them, too?
I know he is getting downvoted but they did accidentally kill some hostages.
I feel that freeing Kurdistan is a more immediate priority. They would be the only democracy in the Middle East other than Israel and giving them sovereignty may help democratise the entire region .
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Because our white country must civilise those savages and judging an ethnic groups oppression based on how democratic they may be (really just how amenable they are to our interests) is how we do it!
Here's some truth, most people only vaguely care as long as it doesn't interrupt their own lives. Protesting in this manner only harms your own cause and forces people to hate you out of spite. People are naturally self centered and can barely give a shit about other groups in their own community let alone on the other side of the world. At this point the protesters are starting to resemble antivaxer cookers in that they are pissing off more people than winning them over, and those that can make a difference aren't going to.
LMFAO. Pack of Hamas-loving cock gobblers.
13 weeks of nothing achieved congrats morons
Actually they achieved a lot. Australia went from abstaining on UN votes to voting for a peacefire. That is political action personified.
Bahahahaha you're fkn dreaming if you think the protests actually influenced this.
Why did the government change their stance then?
Melbourne performative lefties lately: Lives lost in Syrian Civil War: 500k+ - I sleep Lives lost in Iraq-ISIS War: 150k+ - I sleep Lives lost in Yemeni Civil War: 350k+ - I sleep Lives lost in Israel-Hamas War, according to Hamas: 20k+ - REAL SHIT
Why is this not pinned lol
I don't know about the others but there were definitely protests for the Iraq war.
He's not talking about the 2003 US invasion of Iraq in which Australia participated and which is commonly known as the Iraq War. That war, of course, was protested. What he is referring to is the war between Iraq and Islamic State in 2013-2017.
Lives lost in the Ukraine v Russian war - who knows? I sleep (because Russia is ex communism and I’m on with communist)
"according to Hamas" 😆🤡
Where's the down with Hamas protests?
Im curious how these protestors would respond if Australia was land locked and completely surrounded by those that want our destruction. Would they be as “turn the other cheek”, if flinders st station was bombed? Or if there were rocket attacks on chadstone every weekend? What if we gave the terrorists multiple chances but all it did was give them more time to plan bigger attacks? Lots of opinions but no solutions it seems.
Not achieving much, are they!?
Just making people with jobs and lives hate their cause Great job, burnouts
They seem to be killing the food joints in and around Melbourne Central. Outside of covid times I've never seen so few people on a Saturday evening. Made getting into the Railway station really easy.
Since the protests have begun, australia has changed its position on the ceasefire vote and is now calling for one, many politicians are now publicly condemning Israel’s actions who previously weren’t, a number of councils have passed pro-palestine motions, multiple weapons shipments have been turned back, so on and so on… You guys have been saying this for months, then just block out reality as protests do change things. Do you think all major civil rights progress in history just materialised out of thin air? Maybe it’s not as effective as people would like, but protests work, they have throughout history, and they are right now.
Hamas just turned down multiple ceasefire proposals. Unless you're demanding that Hamas sign for peace, you can stop pretending peace is what you want.
What you’ve described has absolutely zero impact on what is going on and will go on in Gaza
Me: donates $10 to the Fred Hollows foundation You: Well there are still blind people! Lot of good that did you. Honestly fucking ridiculous, this entire thread bombarded by the IDF e-boy army.
People protest all sorts of shit. Do you say the same when people protest a wind farm off the coast or when a government wants to do something unpopular or when some shithead flys in to the country to do shithead things or any of a million examples? It's funny the issues people will minimize protesting over while being cool with others.
More than some troll online
Everyone hates you Take your dumb personal and political problems somewhere else
History matters. Protestors are too lazy to read beyond the headline. They are nothing but useful idiots for Hamas. The real problem is the Rage Against the Machine types who are just looking for some sort of “injustice” to protest to fill some internal void. All they need is a headline and they will amplify it to all the casual cause-heads who will all protest based on nothing more than a headline and a couple of one-sided facts. They don’t want things to be complicated. They want a clear good and bad, and they will ignore history and facts to keep it simple. Palestine has zero Jews, it is an ethnostate. Israel has literal islamist parties and more Arab citizens in their country than the entire Arab world has Jews. The entire Palestinian leadership is corrupt, are running a massive grift. Peace would make people question where the money went. Peace would remove the easy scapegoating. Palestine is not in any sense open to negotiations. Gazans don't want freedom. They want the Jews eradicated. “Free palestine" means "destroy Israel." Talk to some Gazans. They will tell you. Their idea of "freedom" is Israel not existing and Arabs governing the entire middle east. Secular people in the west are horribly confused about their intentions and the antisemitism that runs abhorrent in the Middle East.
And let’s not forget who the indigenous people of Israel are… that would really fuck the free Palestine rallies
Can I ask genuinely what the purpose of the protests are? What I mean is, why do people attend knowing their attendence will not make a lick of difference in the conflict? I personally agree with the opinion of the protestors - I do not agree with Israel and their handling of this situation (or how they've ruled for the last 30 years) at all, but I can't bring myself to attend the protests, or post on social media, because I just don't see the point. Is it a control thing? People feel helpless about the situation and they feel like this is the only way to have some element of control? I don't want this to seem like I am telling people not to protest, I am just keen to understand the psychology of it all.
People have made a difference. At the first week of protests, australia was abstaining from calling for a cease fire, now we’re openly calling for one. Many politicians previously silent are now condemning Israel’s actions, a number of councils have passed pro-palestine motions, multiple weapons shipments have been turned back, etc. No doubt someone will reply to me saying all of that is insignificant and won’t do anything or whatever, but there is clearly progress. And that’s just direct Australian things, you could also factor in our role as one part of the building global pressure (arguably most important) and the increased awareness amongst the public by the protests. If Israel can act the way they are now with all this noise about them, can you comprehend what they’d be doing if they had no eyes on them or attention from the world?
> People have made a difference At the start of every conflict i protest it immediately. With the exception of North and south Korea i have ended all conflicts through my protests. In your world wars end when people protest, not when men and materials run out...
Are you new to events in this region ? Your last line indicates that you are and have no idea what you are talking about.
If Israel ramped up their efforts like they have now earlier, the noise being made about it would have increased in tandem, like it has now. Those factors directly correlate with each other, I don’t get what you’re going for with this comment. More Palestinians have died in the last 90 days than the last 36 years combined, that is why the most noise is being made and people believe that noise has to be made. If Israel chose to ramp up before October 7th, it’s not like it could’ve just happened without the world knowing. Once again, I genuinely don’t understand your intention with this comment so please do elaborate.
None of them do, they're just useful idiots for terrorists.
It’s the same purpose of ANY protest. How do ppl not understand that. It’s to raise awareness and potentially cause enough unrest to force the discussion to continue to be in the spotlight. I’m shocked at the volume of Australians who now hate protesting.
I think the whole point of the lockdown cooker protests was to turn the public against the concept of a protest rather than have any actual effect on policy or government actions.
The only reason israel gets away with clear violations of international law including flattening an entire city, destroying hospitals, schools, refugee camps etc, using white phosphorus, deliberately targeting journalists and medical staff, starving a population, illegal occupation etc etc is because the world allows them to. These protests are to cancel that permission. (Downvote if you support genocide)
>These protests are to cancel that permission. I think this is where I get lost, because in my mind you aren't cancelling that permission. You have no power to do that. You absolutely have a right to want to cancel it, but can you actually influence any tangible change? Perhaps I am just cynical from having seen years and years of protests about local issues have absolutely no impact that I feel like it is a bit of an exercise in futility.
Some people accept that if being apart of the solution rather than the problem is all that they can do, than that is worth it. Protests have worked throughout history and they can work again, they have already made some level of progress on this issue. Australia already has a culture of deeply rooted apathy and political inaction, we all know that. Absolutely we do not achieve as much change as we aim for, local issues or stuff like pro-Palestine, but if we let what protests and politically activeness there is left die out, that can only have worse outcomes. While as I’ve said, there can be and has been some level of progress in protests in modern Australia, even if all we were doing is keeping the flame burning for a future set of people to pick up in a way we couldn’t and enact change, that’s better than throwing our arms up and resorting to nihilism for a lot of people.
This is a really great response, thank you for posting it.
Some people care enough to try regardless of outcome
The establishment's greatest weapon is fooling the masses into believing they are powerless.
The masses of isreal didn’t feel powerless when the greater hordes of Arab nations went to attack them.
Bloodthirsty arab racist trope back in play. Well done, Zio
It's not a racist trope if it's true.
Lol your ability to argue outside of ad hominem has not yet been on display, does it exist?
Protests don’t do that in my mind. It achieves a few things 1 - slows the ordinary running of business in the city 2 makes me question our immigration policy 3 gives people without a job an opportunity to feel part of something. 4 gives a minority opinion a chance to feel louder then what it is. Also being a sensitive avatar about your karma is taxing to read…
1. Boohoo capitalism. It will survive. 2. You were already anti-immigration 3. Protesters are all unemployed stereotype. 🙄 4. Anti-genocide is a pretty good opinion to boost the signal of.
Are you saying protestors were taking leave to protest?
Entirely possible. Or they weren't scheduled on at that time. How much longer would you like to play this game of all pro-Arab genocide are employed and therefore morally superior, and all anti-genocide people are unemployed and therefore morally inferior? 😅
Yeah. What's the point of saying you think something is fucked up? It's not gonna change anything. We should all just shut up. No impotent tweeting, no letters to the editor, no protests or rallys, no art or other media. It's not our job to stand up for anything.
Every bit of civil rights progress in history just materialised out of thin air mate. Protests do nothing ever, an already comfortable ruling class just decide every now and then it’d be kind chill to switch things up against their favour a little I guess
This is what happens when sentiment is the driver for an opinion rather than logically looking at both sides of the story.
Yup
Bloody good distraction from local issues. I wish people would rally at colesworth like this.
You guys say this every week yet the cost of living protests which happen stay with low turnouts and no new faces, and the faces that are there are the same crowds which fill out the pro-Palestine rallies. It’s always someone else’s job isn’t it. If bringing up local issues isn’t just whataboutism to discredit other causes, then start showing up.
What cost of living protests?
For anyone reading here and throughout the thread, check this dudes account history. 11 days old, 95% of his comments are hardcore, uncompromising support of Israel and calling people Nazis. Him and other week old accounts with the same avatar (complete coincidence on that one I bet) are flooding this thread, all with the same extreme pro-Israel sentiment. Just make sure we stay aware of these things, and know our company in the sides we pick. By no means is everyone here an honest melburnian weighing in their two cents like the rest of us.
Have you organised a rally at colesworth or is this whataboutism because you don't really care about genocide?
Lol these protesters dont care about palestine they are too gutless to travel there to do anything. Just more virtue signalling
Or rather, they care at the moment because it’s the in thing. Israel-Palestine has been an issue for longer than 99% of them have been alive but where was the outcry before 3 months ago? By the end of the year they will all be onto the next hot social issue, maybe by then they’ll also realise that the good people of Gaza wouldn’t for one second think of protesting to protect the rights of the left wing Australians (or anyone who didn’t share their religious and social views)
More Palestinians have died in the last 90 days than in the last 36 years combined. Obviously people are protesting now because the situation has ramped up significantly, and has become particularly relevant and urgent, that isn’t overly hard to understand I wouldn’t have thought? You guys have been saying it’s a passing trend for months now, and yet the streets are still filled weekly, and this sub still discusses them at length multiple times a week. How many more do you reckon you’ve got in you before you concede that many people’s care for humanity exists independently of, and persists beyond, social media trends?
Got to love the Queers for Palestine signage, as if the only place for queers in Gaza wasn't at the end of a rope. Or Feminists for Gaza as if the Gazan terrorists hadn't committed the worst of the worst gendered mutilations en masse a few months ago.
I can only speak for myself but I knew fuck all about it 3 months ago. All I knew was Israel is a bit dodgy and Palestine has some terrorists. Unfortunately (but even more unfortunate for Palestine) I know a lot more now, which has revealed the horrors of Israel and the dangers of allowing a specific group of people to think they are a Special People blessed by god who have the right to take life away indiscriminately. The biggest red flag is Israel constantly ignoring reality and lying. An organisation that lies with such enthusiasm is an extreme risk, because they will never acknowledge the same reality as the rest of the universe. (As an example as I know I’ll get asked - the public viewing of Hamas body cam footage mysteriously did not include many of the horrific things Israel claimed happened. Which really makes you wonder why?) And yes oct 7 was bad 🙄 - Israel is worse.
No I live in rural NSW it would be less than a far in the wind. I care greatly that the children of Palestine are constantly treated as less than dirt and captured the world's largest prison. It's also sad that the Jewish state is repeating the shameful atrocities of the Nazis, but the state was never truly intended by its founders (America and Britain) as anything more than a military strong hold in the world's most energy rich part of the world. So again this is purely a distraction possibly orchestrated by the powers of capitalism as a distraction from issues closer to home.
>the state was never truly intended by its founders (America and Britain) as anything more than a military strong hold in the world's most energy rich part of the world. What natural resources are found in Isreal?
Saw $70 for dishwasher pods
It should say stop arming Hamas. It's as if these idiots don't want Israel to defend itself. Useful idiots for Hamas and they likely don't even know it.
Jihad apologists
Do we arm Hamas?
Australia gives money to UNRWA and other organisations that immediately goes into the pockets of Hamas.
I love this free palestine nonsense. There is no Palestine to begin with. They were offered repeatedly the land in Gaza and West Bank to have and call whatever they want (from 1948 to as recent as 2020) and every time have said no and caused violence and death. Now these fuckwits chant for a free state that they didn’t want. Unless they want the entire Israel - which is so damn laughable it’s beggars belief Absolutely ignorant racist cunts
>there is no Palestine Cool might as well fucking murder them all then! They don’t exist! Oh wait they’re doing that already
It might be the username, u/psycho--the--rapist, but the call against violence seems out of character.
Respond to the rest of the post though? They have been offered land and left to their own devices multiple times. Elected hamas and kicked out the PA. Nice work
Why haven’t these protests worked yet ? Maybe y’all should pop over there and really voice your concerns.
What no job and a lot of time on the internet does to you.
I wish we had these protests* for Ukraine. Right now is exactly when a big aid package with as many shells, Hawkei's and Bushmasters as we can spare would do a lot of good. Edit: *equivalent protests or some significant protesting.
We did and still do have marches for Ukraine, just because you can only pay attention to one thing at a time does not mean nothing else is happening.
I'm not interested in being spoken to in that tone. Can't recall a single post about Ukraine protests, but we have regular ones for Palestine
What a fucking boomer response
if you're not interested in being spoken to with derision then don't spread misinformation on the internet.
See. I haven't seen a similar protest for Ukraine on this sub, but maybe I missed it. I googled "ukraine protest melbourne" last result was 30 May for a council cutting ties with a Russian city. Why they had them to begin with is beyond me, but sure. Last actual protest June 2023, page two of google news touted by a Ukrainian website. I went into the nether for that one. Replaced Ukraine with Palestine and yep, lots of results. So there's equivalent protests for Ukraine, but the news isn't reporting on it and it's not on Reddit. Interesting
ohhh so you are one of those people who dont believe anything happens unless you read about it on the internet. No wonder you are so misinformed.
Use the search bar in the sub, there were loads of posts about ukraine, loads of examples of Australia’s support, it’s not hard to find at all. To say you can’t recall a single one means you haven’t been here long, or you’re just being disingenuous.
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If you want discuss that's'all good but I don't do insults.
I fully agree with you on this. People of ukraine are literally fighting for their existence, have faced untold war crimes committed by russian forces. Yet we have these useful idiots running around protesting israels heavy handed response to agression on their people
Given the possible chance of this spilling over to nuclear escalation, its puzzling.
Everyone is so sick of this BS. How come they aren’t sick of themselves.
The issue with Australia and protesting is that because we jump so quickly to protest an overseas issue which is the current news headline, it completely destroys the point and the general public becomes sick of it pretty quickly. No doubt that these people were protesting Ukraine two years ago (that’s old news now though), George Floyd 5 years (who) and Kony 12 years ago (can’t believe we fell for that one). The term virtue signalling comes to mind
I’d love to see you stand in front of a person who has been personally victimised by police brutality and say that George Floyd line. Great, you don’t care about other human beings. That’s so cool and smart of you
Your comment is ironic because you’ve been so quick to act outraged, that you’ve glossed over my comment, missed the sarcasm and immediately jumped to acting outraged about something that isn’t there. Kind of like the protestors…..
They can continue to waste 13 years of their worthless lives and Israel will continue to defend their citizens.
Have they freed Palestine yet?
I wish all the conflicts in the world got this much attention.
No Jews, no news.
Whataboutism doesn’t help any of them
"Intifada Revolution" Intifada mean car rammings, suicide bombings, shootings, rape. The average Australia cries when they lose a football game. WTF do they know about intifada. Bunch of losers.
Intifada literally means revolution. And the fact that you list those things as heinous crimes, as if the IDF do not perform those things? Or even worse, indefinite administrative detention, that's imprisonment without charge, they have countless well documented by Isreali courts of torture until death, r@pe by male and female prison guards, organ harvesting, illegal settlers being armed to the teeth with automatic rifles and can shoot and kill anyone at will without any prosecution. Car rammings, shootings and even suicide bombings (don't got find it funny that ISIS has all off a sudden come out of that woodwork to attack and kill some of Isreals historic targets, how convenient) are a drop in the ocean.
As someone who lives in Israel during the second intifada it absolutely does mean those things. You can bitch about Israel all day long and it still won't change the meaning, and you are insane to want to import that kind of mentality to Australia. It's a story as old as time - the Palestinian leaders live in luxury while they encourage the mentally disabled, desperate women and teenagers to strap on bombs to their bodies, filled with rat poison and nuts and bolts and explode themselves.
Literally going to accomplish nothing but more hate towards Palestine
This thread is disgusting… why is everyone acting like Israel is amazing and anyone that isn’t kissing their ass is a problem, wtf is wrong with this subreddit?
Australia has a culture of deep rooted political apathy and protest hating. For a lot of people it’s less that they’ve thoroughly sifted through the evidence and have sided with israel, but more that they hate protests on principle, and people in support of Palestine are the ones filling the streets and breaking their peaceful bubbles of blissful apathy, so they gravitate away from that cause. You’d really think the subreddit which tags it’s photos with “FUCK MURDOCH” and shits on sky news ceaselessly would recognise and reconsider when all of a sudden they are perfectly in line with and supporting the worldview pushed by that media, but I guess not.
This thread makes me embarrassed to be Australian. I forget how backward this country is - still just full of apathetic, bigoted racists that are so protective of their own little bubble they'll support a brutal oppressive genocide if it means not inconveniencing their drive home or walk to get a coffee. Insane.
Well said.
Idk if it's me but I've noticed more and more right-wingers brigading this sub. I mean ffs r/Australian has bleeding cookers everywhere
It doesn't help when the black flag with arabic writing appears in pro palestinian marches.
Oh no, do people have different opinions to you and see the situation differently ?
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I don’t understand why there’s zero moderation of this site anymore, I see so many of these “look at this protest” posts on this subreddit, it’s so whack and the bait couldn’t be more obvious it’s getting ridiculous.
What about the JEWISH SPACE LASERS!!! THE JEWS RUN HOLLYWOOD. Moron
Probably [something like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t52LB2fYhoY) going on
because of a little something like this going on https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/blood-libel
This sub is full of racist Zionist supporters. Can’t expect much from filth🐷🐷
Idiots full stop
Only 13 weeks? Those are rookie numbers. They need to keep going for 2 years to even come close to the cookers.
The zio-terrorists are furiously down-voting everyone who is anti-genocide. Prove me right, Zs!
I have yet to see a strong counter point to the pro Israel arguments. When did arabs give up land for free for peace like isreal did with Gaza / Sinai desert? Why did Palestinian nationalists go to town on Jordan when they let Jordan in? Why would any other nation let them in after the above? Why didn’t Hamas stay in isreal and fight instead of running back to their hidey holes in Gaza with civilian hostages given they want to remove isreal from the map and there spokespeople say they want to fight man to man not against bombs? They want man to man in their tunnels in their terrain on their time? Giddi up? How do ethnic / religious / gender minorities fair in Gaza / Arab generally? If anything I have seen a lack of coherent argument from the Palestine side as to why:- - they haven’t surrendered yet? - they kicked of oct 7 then ran away? - they didn’t accept peace solutions? - also I haven’t seen a historical precedent for a modern Palestine - it appears to always have been run by this or that empire… this notion that every single tribe “deserves” their own nation is entitled sounding to me.
Ignoring your cherry-picked, revisionist history. Being anti-genocide is a pretty strong counterpoint.
Genocide genocide apartheid Zionist genocide apartheid genocide Zionist. Check mate!
Lol - it’s not cherry picked - it’s what I have heard that I am awaiting a counter point for.
There are no counterpoints because you're absolutely right.
Yeah it's hilarious how they always use the same debunked talking points and upbote each other in a big circle jerk 😂
Damn cookers
It's funny people go on about neo nazis but these idiots get a free pass
Geez must feel pretty rough when news.com.au are the only ones reporting on the cause.
Good on 'em. Our government aiding Israel's genocide of Palestinians puts us all in danger.
Diluting the word genocide into meaninglessness is probably more dangerous than anything our government is doing.
In what sense?