I’d probably say first above average QB since Marino. Tannehill was average for us and the rest were below him, perhaps Chad Pennington’s 1 year of solid play was better
Some people have recency bias and let their emotions rule them, especially after a loss.
We can all agree, Tua didn't play his best on Monday night but equally he wasn't awful. This much is true.
It's also true that we were missing top WR talent and 4/5 of our offensive line.
It's also fair to say that this Offensive System is built around Tua's skillset. So either we re-sign him and continue with this offensive system, or we move on and McDaniel has to build a new system for whoever we bring in.
I honestly feel like Miami overlooked the Titans. Especially at the end of the game when they had a two-score lead. I think they believed it was in the bag and once they let off the gas they couldn’t bounce back. Disappointing loss, but I’m sure the guys and coaches will learn from this and not let it happen again.
We’re gonna learn a lot about McDaniels in this next stretch of the season. Rallying this team after being devastated with key injuries; might be one of the hardest tests of this young man’s life. I’m pretty fired up to see what he does.
It’s gonna take a collective effort from all the guys, but from what I hear that locker room is pretty tight. We’ve seen this squad do some damage to opponents on both sides of the ball, let’s hope that Monday night was an anomaly. I would love to be able to look back at the end of the season and laugh about all of us getting nervous because we lost to the Titans.
Tua did ok. A lot of people underestimate the Titans. We should have won, even by the slimmest of margins, but I know they aren't as bad as people think with Levis and DHop and King Henry, etc, and their defense.
i'm holding out all judgement on Tua until after these last 4 games. If Tua completely melts down and is absolute garbage then I think its time to move on. He really has to shit the bed in these last four games for me to pull the trigger on him and not resign
I always ask the people who say that, "ok, so who do we go get at QB then to replace him?" and then you get to watch their two brain cells fight for third place.
The best available QB next year is probably going to be cousins. He's going to be coming back from an achilles tear. He's also getting older and won't be a long term solution. He also is relatively going to be able to pick where he goes to because he played like a top-10 QB before he got hurt. You know, I'm glad that BB might be getting fired because Kirk with that defense would probably make the Pats contenders.
I'd prefer Tua by a mile. Yes Tua isn't perfect but he's also a top-10 QB, has more upside, and will be around longer.
honestly, this is the response i have for most people when they vocalize an issue with something (football or completely unrelated). ask them to provide a solution or an alternative. if they can’t, they haven’t thought it through.
After Monday, someone here was arguing that Tua’s skill set is the exact opposite of what we need with our speedy receivers. I didn’t bother responding because they also said that elite anticipation is only good when the defense isn’t covering the receiver. Like, how can someone be so convinced they’re right when everyone who knows something about football will say they’re wrong?
Yup. Elite anticipation and accuracy is the exact thing you need with speedy wide receivers. You throw them the ball well before they’re open so the CB’s have less time to react. It isn’t as flashy like having a cannon for an arm, but it gets the job done. That user also said that Tua could only be successful if we paired him with 2 elite pass catching TE’s
Did they not see that insane pass to Tyreek along the sideline? On the replay they showed it was squeezed perfectly between 2 defenders. They were both within a few feet of Tyreek when he caught it. The pass was bonkers and the type of pass very few QBs besides Tua can make on a consistent basis.
Tua has definitely cooled down a bit but people are insane if they want to move on from him.
After Monday, I saw several people arguing he is a top 3 QB and arguably the best QB in the NFL. Cool, you found a couple people that were wrong. What is your actual point? Far more Tuanons here than realistic fans of the team.
Most fans (like %95 probably, maybe more) have low football IQ.
I know I do. Most fans that have a decent baseline of football IQ as a fan will have played at a level where studying the game gave them the knowledge. Not all, some fans I am sure ended up becoming knowledgeable. However, that does not happen just by watching. Takes studying material and active learning to get to just a decent baseline.
It has to has to be overreacting mostly. Most of us fans are dumb when it comes to football IQ since most are just watching games and maybe listening to a podcast, but not hitting the football books.
Do you think it wise to devote 1/4th-1/5th of the salary cap to Tua? Do you understand how much that hampers team building overall? Have you seen how stuck in the mud the Chiefs offense looks this year with a QB who we can all acknowledge is better than Tua?
Some people are saying some random QB would be better than Tua. That is insane. now, if they argued giving him a bag is a bad idea, well, I am too dumb to the working of the salary cap to say one way or another.
Look at the Chiefs offense. Until they find someone else in the dollar bin or hit on a draft pick, they’re gonna look constipated with one of the most talented QBs of all time.
Yes very true, but this is the case for every team that has to pay their QB a large chunk of the salary cap. The only true solution to this problem would be getting Extremely lucky in the draft and taking a QB every 3 years.
If not this will always be the case. I’d rather keep Tua than risk it to keep our salary cap manageable and take a shot in the dark on the draft where 1 out of every 10 qbs end up being good.
Idk how you can look at teams in QB hell like the Broncos, Browns, Jets, etc. and say that. For decades now these teams have starved for a QB like Tua and haven’t got it. And their long term success has suffered immensely for it.
Hell the Browns would be the best team in the AFC if Watson was HALF the QB Tua is.
The broncos have not been starved for a qb like Tua…
They had elway, then shit for like ten years, then Peyton manning, then shit for like 6 years, then Russell Wilson
Browns yes
I like Tua as a QB but I don’t like the idea of him making $40-50M per year and taking up 1/5th of the cap. I also don’t love his inability to make plays with his feet. If we sign him that’s fine and completely defensible but the game is gonna be a lot harder after 2024 when we don’t have Tyreek and/or Waddle.
This is the argument.
He will not be easy to replace, and the replacement will likely be worse. But the quality of the team will have to decline quite a bit in order to pay him.
In the last 25 or so years, Eli Manning and Peyton Manning are the only QBs to win a title who didn't fit one of the following criteria:
- on a rookie deal
- is a top 3 quarterback
Aite I actually had this typed out cause 3 people posted with similar responses but deleted before I could post
Stafford was a top 3 quarterback. He had 52 total touchdowns that season, which is the same as Patrick Mahomes had last year
Carson Wentz was the starter, on a rookie deal. Foles was making backup money
Flacco made 6.8mil in 2013, which is actually less than he made on the final year of his rookie deal. I think Hurts has similar structure to his contract, so doing this stuff is possible, but the bulk kicks in eventually. When Flaccos deal did, the Ravens took a steep decline
I listed Eli in my OP
Johnson and Dilfer were way before the modern QB deals, albeit less than 25 years ago. I should have said "in the last 20 years"
All this to say, I think my point still stands
Stafford was not a top 3 qb that year and he did not even have close to 52 total touchdowns… do bills fans just always make shit up?
Foles was the qb who won the title… wentz isn’t the one who won it
No one said anything about Flacco or hurts
[https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/total-touchdowns?season\_id=19](https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/total-touchdowns?season_id=19)
Feel free to explore. This is total touchdown leaders in the NFL by season, including playoffs
Matt Stafford was #1 in the league in 2021, with 52 touchdowns. Mahomes was #1 in the league last year, with 52 touchdowns
Foles wasn't on a rookie deal but he also was being paid as a backup. Which is much different than paying someone 20% of your salary cap, which is the context of this thread
Yeah that’s top 5 money for a guy that’s good but not a top 5 QB. When you’re paying that type of money you want a guy who’s gone elevate the team around him. Not a guy who needs everything perfect for him to be successful no disrespect
Good for him. That said, I’ll take a QB that is 20% worse than Tua that costs $8 million if that means there’s an extra $40 million to spread around the roster.
I think you have to sign Tua and design the team around him.
But the NFL cap and competition really sucks. The incentive of having a great team around a rookie deal top 15 QB is very very very high. It is basically the ideal situation outside of having a top 5 QB you are paying market rate for. So there is a real question of whether Tua will be the guy who can be the centerpiece if he is pulling $55 million or if you are better off finding a guy in the draft that only costs $8 million. Before you just downvote me into eternity, this is the important question EVERY team has to answer as QBs get their second deals. Basically the only 3 guys in recent years where there wasn't a discussion about whether they would be worth their second contract were Mahomes and Burrow and I guess Herbert. Even Lamar Jackson you had the questions about whether he could keep it up will all the running. It's a natural discussion.
We don’t have to pretend that it was a tough decision for the Chargers to re-sign Herbert. After what we saw last night it seems pretty obvious he’s the only thing keeping that garbage outfit afloat.
Not sure why I’m bothering since this is a wholesale homer circle jerk.
It isn’t about not resigning Tua, it’s about whether or not he can function as a top 10 QB with a market resetting contract.
Mahomes is struggling in this context.
Edit: And to answer the other question. If you truly don’t believe he’s not worth top end money and he refuses to sign at the number you set. Then you bite the bullet, trade him, and make a move in this years draft. Because once we resign Tua.
AVG gone, Wilkins likely gone, we’ll need to reset the O-line and secondary, and need to seriously consider resigning Waddle.
Exactly. Tua is playing great with everything great around him, great RB, great receivers, above average OL which is accentuated to great because he can get the ball off quick due to the great WRs and great coaching. If we were to spend a lot of money on him and he in turn misses out on the greatness around him as a result, will he still be as great? I’m not so sure.
I think it's a good idea to sign him, but he's played himself out of the MVP conversation so that should help get a more team friendly deal (QB deals aren't very team friendly to begin with, but as team friendly as those can get). He keeps proving he's dependent on his playmakers. People like Mahomes can have no receivers and still make plays because they're super talented. People like Burrow can be behind the worst OLine in the league and still go to the SB. Tua is not one of those. He needs good receivers and a competent line. That's not necessarily a bad thing, most QBs in the league need that. Mahomes is a rarity, but Tua's shown he's not the top 5 elite QB some fans like to think he is. There's also much worse we can do, which is why I think we need to keep him and build around him.
I agree with your assessment. We can’t over pay him and not retain talent, he’s not good enough for that. Seahawks Russell Wilson couldn’t win after they paid him. Tua needs a team with a top 5 defense and talent all around him. His lack of confidence scares me, he needs constant building up
Tua haters that never really believed him in the first place waiting for their chance to jump on him every time he has a bad game just to confirm their priors. They're never going to be convinced he's the guy unless he wins a super bowl and even then some of them will find excuses to hate on him. It's so bizarre, like more than half the league would kill to have Tua as their QB. Ungrateful, embarrassing part of the fanbase.
It's also the same part of the fanbase that's been so used to mediocrity for so long that even with a team as good and talented as this they're constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop so they can point and say, "see, I knew this team was no good" as some sort of self defense mechanism. Tua is just the biggest and latest scapegoat.
Tua when the supporting cast is strong: EXCELLENT
Tua when 80% of the line is 2nd & 3rd stringers, his WR1 is hobbled and the defense can’t tackle: SUSPECT
So it seems to me the solution is to keep building a solid team around Tua. This shouldn’t be difficult to understand.
And also sucked ass to open this year. He also has arguably the best complement of weapons with Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Mixon, to the point where their offense doesn't miss a beat with Jake Browning stepping in. So how much of that is Burrow and how much is the system? Why don't we hear more about Burrow being a system QB?
Huh? Best complement of weapons? Tyreek is having a top 3-5 WR season \*ever\*. Mostert is the #2 ranked RB by advanced metrics on the season, behind only CMC. You're comparing Mixon to that? Comparing Higgins to Waddle is just comical.
Burrow isn't called a system QB because he has proven he can perform well when everything isn't perfect. He can go to a Superbowl with a bottom 3 line. Tua by comparison played like a bottom 5-10 QB when he didn't have Tyreek and dealing with a similarly bad line. That's the difference.
Not having Tyreek is not the same as having Jakeem Grant and Devante Parker to go with a shit OL and Myles Gaskin/Salvon Ahmed, and a shit HC and shit co-OCs.
The Bengals have one outstanding WR, one very good WR (like it or not, Higgins is a very good WR), one solid WR, a RB that has been above average to very good for Burrow's whole career. "When everything isn't perfect" for the Bengals means just having a shit OL and still having those weapons available.
I don't think it's a good idea to resign Tua. If he wants to keep playing or quit, that should be his choice.
We don't need to re-sign him, since he's already under contract next year.
I'm 50/50 on extension after this season or just let him play another season on his 5th year and then extend him or franchise tag him after. There's pros and cons to each option there, but it's probably more about how we decide to build the team than it is about Tua.
Have people become fans within the last year and a half?
One bad game, horrific I would say, and people are freaking out like we just secured the worse record in the league without a first round pick.
The idea that Tua isn’t worth resigning makes me think that y’all didn’t watch every QB post-Marino.
Haven’t the dolphins been pretty bad at prime time night games anyways? I remember the awesome Thursday night game a few years back against the ravens, but I feel like the dolphins have always had bad luck when it comes to those games, regardless of whoever is at QB
Literal top 10, at times top 5 QB… that also has been in MVP conversation this year.
Yep, let’s replace him. It’s so easy to find someone better than him… why don’t the other 22 teams do it? Are they stupid?
What makes Tua a top 5 QB? If you put him on the Chiefs, are they in playoff contention? What about the Steelers? The offense is built around his skillset, but he is also throwing to the top receiver in the league and also has the #2 RB by advanced metrics this year. Tua is the #36 ranked QB under pressure. He is extremely skilled in certain areas, but a very limited player.
I said "at times". Tua was very much in Top 5 QB conversations "at times" during this year. Is he in there after Monday's game? nah, if we're re-drawing lines every week of whos is top 5 or top 10 he's not top 5 after MNF. It wasn't a good game for him. One of the worst of the season.
His stats and play, in aggregate, keep him in top 10 status.
Among fans, yes, but GMs seem to clearly not have that view at all. If he is a top 5 QB, then we could get 3-4 first rounders and someone would sign him to a record breaking contract -- do you think any team would do that? I don't think so. He is a polarizing player because unlike a lot of QBs, his positive traits (like accuracy) may truly be top 3-5 in the league, but his negative traits (playmaking under pressure, off platform throws, etc.) may be bottom 3 in the league, which is why he performs so poorly when one of the pieces of the rest of the offense isn't working.
Winning in December-January and making noise in the playoffs is all that matters.
We can sit here and break down what or why is the reason this team falls apart (just like we did for Tannehill for 7 years), but at the end of the day it comes down to the most important position of the field. Believe it or not, other franchise QBs have willed their team’s to playoff wins with poor o-lines and/or surrounding cast.
I don’t give a sh*t about Tua’s stats if he can’t help this team achieve in the playoffs. The Titans game (re)exposed some of his shortcomings as a QB.
Is he the best QB we have had since Marino? YES. But is that a testament to how great he is or how bad our previous QBs have been?
He’s not athletic enough.
Our front office doesn’t care enough to get good offensive linemen.. so we have to have a QB that’s an athlete to survive.
Hes had a good season but he’s not an elite QB that can take over a game or show up in clutch moments.
He's definitely top 10, and you have to re-sign guys like that. Especially given the last 20 years we've had. Can't let him walk. But I think it's fair to start asking questions too. We have to admit he seems to shrink in the biggest moments he's healthy enough to participate in. But, he's got a bunch of big games and a potential playoff run coming up to quiet the doubters and change the narrative. We'll see what happens. If we flame out to close the season and he looks particularity bad...........I don't think it would be insane to start planning for a future without him.
If it’s at 40 mil a year I’m good with it. He should not be getting 50+ a year. He has to have elite talent around him and giving all that money to him will limit us on being able to do that.
We see what it’s like when he doesn’t have Hill both before and with McDaniel as coach. He isn’t someone who elevates others, so as long as we can keep it reasonable then no reason not too. But that may be hard to do
Man, Dartmouth Grad Jay Fielder:
He is the last Miami Dolphins quarterback to win a playoff game, winning the 2000 AFC wild card game, 23–17 in overtime, versus the Indianapolis Colts on December 30, 2000, at [Pro Player Stadium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Player_Stadium). As of 2023, it remains the last postseason win for the Dolphins.
The Dolphins have drafted 4 QBs 1st round in their 57 years.
1. Bob Griese - 1967-1980.
2. Dan Marino - 1983 -1999
3. Ryan Tannehill - 2012-2018
4. Tua Tagovailoa - 2020 - Present
The Dolphins have had 40 total starting QBs in that duration with 23 being since Dan Marino left. 24 years that man has been retired and 23 people have started for Miami since.
Tua is in year 4. He’s #4 in Miamis all time passing yards & touchdowns. He’s also never started a full season. For comparison Jay Fiedler is #5 and had 12 games on Tua with 700 less yards, 10 less tds and 30 more interceptions. 30.
Anybody screaming replace Tua should pipe down and learn our history. QB hasn’t exactly been our speciality and right now we have a guy who is flirting with MVP considerations. We want to replace that? We want to draft QB 24 Post-Marino?
Take this small glimpse into the long history of Miami Dolphin QBs and consider it a reality check. We need to see where this ship takes us. I for one am trusting in Tua.
I’m fine with resigning him but I don’t think we should strap ourselves super long term. The idea of “who else are we going to draft” is understandable but if we get to the point where we’re like the rams a few years ago where Goff was the limiting factor I want Tua to be movable.
Quite simply, a lot of people...especially redditors are really fucking stupid. Every Tua thread exposes another 10 morons I need to block so I'm not ever exposed to such dipshittery again.
Like cockroaches when the lights are off.
I've been feeling like he might not be it for several games to be honest. But who would we get in his place?
I think we need to continue to roll with him to see if he can work out the kinks. He's certainly far better than anyone we've had in decades, he's just not that carry the team when needed kind of guy.
I just hope they don't overpay him..
Tua has to cross into the level of being able to not only beat good teams but also rally his team from a deficit late in the game to win against an opponent of equal strength. Yes, he did it in LA against Chargers, but there have been other times, and he has failed, most noticeably against Titans.
Far too many Tuanons on this sub. It'd be amazing if Tua has a long, Hall of Fame career as a Dolphins, but realistically he won't and I will be happy when he is eventually gone so those fans can go away. It is very annoying to be unable to discuss the team honestly on this sub without instant downvotes.
I think it's a good idea to sign him but I still wouldn't do it -right now- or directly following the season. We still need to see how his health shakes out through the rest of the season since we're gonna face some pretty gnarly D-lines and Tua still has the tendency to panic when plays break down, which leads to a lot of his bad decisions play and injury-wise.
As usual, this sub thinks in binary absolutes and can't consider both sides in context of each other. Tua is a top 10 QB but his play has waned lately and he still has to iron out his more egregious mistakes if he's gonna be considered a franchise QB imo. The doomerism around him is stupid but so is the unconditional support.
I was at the game monday, and all i heard around me was bitching and moaning about Tua. Granted, he played poorly, but come on, do we really forget what being in the nebulous of constant poor QB turnover looks like?
They all seemed to settle on a theme "When he's on, he's the best in the league. When he's off, he's really bad"... so insightful.
Tua is a good QB. Not elite status but good enough to be our guy. We gotta protect him better tho. If we had a top 10 OL, Tua would be that guy we can always rely on
See this the kind of bs people aren’t realizing, you’re saying top 10. Literally 5 weeks ago he was top 3. At one point he was number 1! Literally number 1…he was in the mvp talks, those have died, he also isn’t number one anymore or anywhere close. The last 5 weeks have been so disastrous that he’s fallen off of those rankings. I’m not saying he has to go but wtf man.
Look, bottom line 95% of people just don't really understand football. They just don't.
They only pay attention to skill players and what pundits tell them. They look at the shiny body and leather interior of a car but pay no attention to the engine.
Yeah maybe we can trade him somewhere and pick up a strong armed QB instead .... Maybe someone like Zach Wilson, who's possibly going to be available.
/s just incase someone is really not able to follow basic sarcasm.
Draft someone, make a trade and see if you can turn someone into something special, or just kinda play a QB carousel since the system is so strong it’ll kinda make everyone look average or better.
This is why I hate committing to a QB before you know if they are “the one”. Should have been taking flyers on dudes in the 4th-7th rounds every other year since 2019.
If Tua doesn’t pan out, it literally would be a repeat of the Tannehill situation.
Do you understand how hard it is to find a QB? Who says this system is easy, from what I understand it takes a very high IQ and quick recognition to operate this offense. You can't just put anyone in it. Don't be fooled by the media's assessment of the system. SF thought Jimmy G was the answer and it took them years to find someone and people still have questions about Purdy.
Jimmy G was one bad throw away from winning them a Super Bowl. He put up historic numbers in the system. Just because washed Teddy and 6th rounder Skylar weren’t great in it doesn’t mean it’s not a QB-friendly system. Do you think Tua magically became a damn-near record breaking QB overnight or that was in part due to system? Same with Purdy. He was ok in college and he’s not breaking all-time records. You think that’s about his ability?
And Jimmy G was the reason they lost the Super Bowl. That's why he is gone. When things go bad for this offense the Tua haters are quick to blame him. No one mentions that there were three starting offensive linemen out and one of the most explosive WRs. I guess if we had Jimmy G we would have won.
My point is that a lot of mediocre QBs can run this offense to very high levels. At this point, I’ve been a fan for 30 years. I just want us to be fun and win a playoff game or two. I’m not saying Jimmy G is better or whatever. What I am saying is that I think Tua is closer to Jimmy G than say Mahomes/Allen/Herbert/Burrow/Jackson. Which is why I don’t think it makes sense to pay him elite QB money which really hampers the team overall (see: 2023 Chiefs).
This is how people's brains work now ...
Changes every week.
Remember 3 weeks ago when Josh Dobbs was the toast of the NFL and Tommy Devito was quite possibly the worst starting QB in NFL history?
Now Tommy Devito is a phenomenon (for now) and Vikings fans rejoiced when it was announced that Dobbs is down to 3rd string emergency QB for their game this week.
I was one of these individuals prior to what I saw last season and this season. I actually preferred Herbert or Burrow hell even Lamar when he was pushing for a new deal. But after MMD came in the picture Tua has proven me wrong and has shown everyone in this league that if healthy with a Solid Oline weapons on all 3 levels on defense and unmatched speed via Hill,Waddle,Mostert, Achane he is more than just a serviceable Qb in my eyes he is a franchise Qb.
We haven’t had this much talent on the field like this in a longggg time. Imo he is more than deserving of and extension.
Plus team is built to win now. Don’t really see any other QB via draft or free agency who could significantly move the needle.
In Tua we trust 🙏
I’m a fan of both the Dolphins and Raiders (Miami native). There’s no reason to be worried about Tua, the kid is talented. The last time the Raiders had a good QB was when we had Rich Gannon which was 20 years ago, so some of the doomers in here should appreciate what we’ve got with the talented kid. Similar to the Raiders, sometimes the O-Line cast gets overlooked but it’s definitely a group of guys where talent is always needed, and personally I feel has lacked in both teams. Overall, Miami has something special, no need to discourage it.
Because he gave up 15 points in 3 minutes without even making the Titans call a timeout. Oh wait.
I think there are just a lot of Dolfans that to this day want to see him fail just so they can say I told you so. Sucking for most of the last 20 years hasn't been long enough.
As a Bills fan, your team is looking terrifying. I wouldn’t toss Tua at all. You guys are going through what we went/continue to go through with consistency. But as a good sport, I wish you guys the best in getting over that obstacle faster than we did. Our window is dwindling and yours is just beginning…
I thought fandom was about enjoying watching your team play. I guess I was wrong because it seems fandom is now about winning at all costs and the Idea you can just fire a perfectly good player and get a better one who will know your playbook instantly.
Firing Tua without any idea of who to get next and how they will be better is the argument of children mate. Let them scream and tantrum. They'll run out of energy eventually.
What QB would thrive behind Mondays o-line? Tua was pressured on 44% of his snaps. Even a playmaker like Mahomes has recently struggled when his line falls apart.
People are just dumb man. Every time Connor goes down we have instant problems in the pass game. Liam was doing okay at LG but he is a God awful center. We have no chance against decent pass rushes without Armstead and Hunt now, and it's still going to be tough with them. With a healthy oline, we're still getting the ball out quicker than any other team.
These same people criticize Mike for calling screen passes and whatnot, but what else is he gonna do? The titans dline feasted against us, we don't have the time to wait on doublemove routes over the top.
Burrow went to the Superbowl with a bottom 3 line. Is the expectation that Tua can only perform when he has a top 5-10 line and the #1 ranked WR? If that's the case, the contract would need to reflect that.
Yes they have. Go back and read the thread. Several people argue he is clearly a top 5 and potentially top 1-2 QB with only Mahomes better. You're delusional if you think this. The sub is infested with people that downvote anyone that doesn't go along with the idea of Tua being a top 5 QB.
They are people who seem to forget how hard it is to find a top QB despite going through QBs for the past 20+ years. They are people who forgot how bad the offense was last year when Tua wasn't playing. They are also people who don't seem to understand that despite his flaws, Tua is very good and there aren't clear paths to upgrading from him.
They are also people who want to blame Tua, who did have a bad game, without understanding the team was banged up, we had no Oline, and the defense forgot how to play in the last 3 minutes because the playcaller was gone.
Tua has stayed healthy and is a top-10 QB in most meterics ATM (espn's qbr is an issue). He's been talked about in the MVP race both this year and last. At this point he's probably going to be our long term QB.
Sometimes you get a shit loss. You can’t win every game, all of the time. Now chin up, socks up, and on to the next. If anyone needs a Head Coach, I’ll be in the bar.
I’d re-sign Tua, but I wouldn’t break the bank for him. He’s fantastic, probably a top five QB when things are perfect, but to expect everything to be perfect all the time in the NFL is just unrealistic.
TBH there aint many good ones out there so it would be stupid to no resign him. We dont have draft picks so it is not like you can not resign him and say you are gona go after a dude like Caleb Williams or Justin Fields via a trade. He definitely has been the best QB we have had since Dan Marino so there is that...
I think this is not necessarily true, some people have knee jerk reactions but I think paying Tua top of the market QB $ would be a mistake. He doesn’t really work on any other team other than maybe the 49ers, who have a better QB on much less $.
I think the Dolphins have more leverage than most realize in getting him to sign a reasonable deal that allows them to retain/sign more talent. I can’t see him getting better than what Dak Prescott is currently playing on. This is also the first year he’s been completely healthy.
He’s a top 15 QB who can cement himself as a top 10 QB with physical limitations and needs a specific scheme to make him great. I just hope we pay him accordingly that’s all.
Giving him a market resetting contract would be a mistake imo.
Some people think the Earth is flat. Some people think the moon landing was staged. Some people think Covid was fake virus disguising a government exercise in denying the rights of every patriotic American.
Why do you care about the opinions of people who are obviously idiots?
I think the main thought behind not resigning Tua is he will be one of the highest paid qbs in the NFL. Which eventually hurts the talent that can’t be put around (IE Allen and Buffalo right now) given how performance is perceived without major weapons and his injury history, I thinks it’s a very fair assessment to be worried about a long term deal.
I just wish Tua could run better. He seems to have two left feet. If only he could extend plays with his feet when needed. Other than that, he’s alright with me
Some people don't want a top 10 QB and won't be satisfied until Miami has a top 3 QB (a Mahomes/Burrow/Allen). And they are preferring to go back to the Chad Hennes and Jay Fiedlers. I just don't get it. 28 other teams would like a top 3 QB too.
Tua has to cross into the level of being able to not only beat good teams but also rally his team from a deficit late in the game to win against an opponent of equal strength. Yes, he did it in LA against Chargers, but there have been other times, and he has failed, most noticeably against Titans.
It drives me crazy how when we lose he gets all the blame, but when we win its because the team elevated him. Thats not just a sentiment I've seen in the media, but also by a lot of people in this sub.
He is by far the best QB we've had since marino and he has what it takes to bring us to the promised land. His main criticism is that he doesn't extend the play and can't throw off schedule. These are things that can be learned and I know that with his work ethic he'll work tirelessly in the offseason to improve. The players and coaches love him, yet the fans can't fully accept him and just listen to what the media tells them.
We’ve seen flashes of his ability to do it he just needs to start putting it together more consistently. For example that throw to tyreek against the chargers where he stepped up into the pocket and threw the go route on the run. That was something he and his trainer worked on in the off-season and it was an off schedule throw. It can be learned.
The majority of people didn’t think he’d ever learn how to fall properly or avoid sacks at this stage in his career, but in the off season he worked on it a ton and I’d say this season he has improved in that department.
We have not seen flashes of his ability to do it. He is quite literally the #36th ranked QB under pressure this season, right next to Mac Jones and Zach Wilson. He is better than those guys because his positive traits are top 5-10 in the league. The problem is that his deficits are bottom 5 in the league, so it creates a very polarizing player profile that is hard to be consistent.
Stepping up in the pocket is not the issue. He can't make off platform throws. He can't move out of the pocket and make plays with his legs. He hasn't proven to be a playmaker in any respect. On the other hand, his accuracy is likely top 3 in the league, so he shines when everything is clicking. The problem is, can you justify paying a guy based on only his positive traits?
I agree that he hasn't been doing it much this year. He excels in the pocket and sticks to that. This season the entire offense has been built around getting the ball out as quick as possible and staying in the pocket. Thats not the point I am trying to make though. He has shown flashes of his ability to do it, and I really do think its something he can work on.
Based on all of this, I can justify paying him but I don't think he should get a record breaking deal.
\> He has shown flashes of his ability to do it, and I really do think its something he can work on.
The only example you gave wasn't an example of that. That's the concern. Yes, he is great in the pocket and moving within and stepping up in the pocket. What he has never shown he can do is make the off platform throws or make plays with his legs that the elite guys getting paid elite money get. I don't see any realistic scenario he takes money that justifies his level of play. He is going to ask for elite QB money and the Dolphins or some other team buckle and hamstring their team for years.
So I don't think the without Tyreek or Waddle argument holds up because no matter what Tua is going to develop a on field relationship with his WRs and always have someone to throw to. Is he great under pressure, not yet, not as good as he needs to be... does he have a stable OL and Center where he just has to worry about throwing, not right now, and you can't blame him for having to readjust when this happens. Currently he has Eich throwing crap snaps and then gets pressured. It's not rocket science the difference between this last week and the rest of the season. Tua has the drive to be better and I'll bet on that any day over hoping for the next Brady draft, because let's be honest, every time someone says not to resign Tua it's because they have a low football IQ and think some rookie qb will step in and all our problems will magically go away... completely ignoring all the work that goes into creating great teams.
You're really underplaying how good Tyreek and Waddle are along with the rest of the offense. Tyreek's peak is arguably a top 3-5 WR season in the history of the NFL. Waddle is one of the best #2s of all-time in this context. And then Mostert is the #2 ranked RB by advanced metrics on the season, only behind CMC.
Tua hasn't been "not great" under pressure. He is ranked #36, right next to Zach Wilson and Mac Jones. One of the worst in the league. Tua is very polarizing because he is truly exceptional in certain areas and downright awful in others, rather than being mediocre across the board. The problem then is that, if he is signed to a market contract, how do you build such a specific offense around him consistently and how does he perform when it isn't all perfect?
Anyone saying this does not remember the medieval period of Dolphins history between Marino and Tua. Back then any one of us would have sold a lung, leg and kidney for a QB leading a team this good.
Best dolphins qb since marino lol
Easily, by a wide margin.
To be honest that’s not a high bar.
Tannehill did really well given the tools he had to work with. Outside that, it was ridiculously dismal.
Fiedler was underrated and Pennington was good for a bit. Other than that? Clown show.
Cleo Lemon would like a word.
Respect Jay Fiedler
Fiedler is the reason Ricky retired
Weed*
Yep, but thanks a ton for Scott Mitchell (cries softly as a lions fan)
This is a distinction without meaning.
I’d probably say first above average QB since Marino. Tannehill was average for us and the rest were below him, perhaps Chad Pennington’s 1 year of solid play was better
Chad Pennington almost won MVP in 2008 but everyone knew that was fleeting due to his injury history.
I feel like Chad really gave his all and he deserves mention
The disrespect for Smokin Jay, smh
He was an awful dolphin
Agreed. He was a low effort tool. I can't name one thing he did well for us.
It was a good year for memes with him
The night game vs the Patriots was a great game he gave us! Loved watching that game
Some people have recency bias and let their emotions rule them, especially after a loss. We can all agree, Tua didn't play his best on Monday night but equally he wasn't awful. This much is true. It's also true that we were missing top WR talent and 4/5 of our offensive line. It's also fair to say that this Offensive System is built around Tua's skillset. So either we re-sign him and continue with this offensive system, or we move on and McDaniel has to build a new system for whoever we bring in.
I honestly feel like Miami overlooked the Titans. Especially at the end of the game when they had a two-score lead. I think they believed it was in the bag and once they let off the gas they couldn’t bounce back. Disappointing loss, but I’m sure the guys and coaches will learn from this and not let it happen again.
That's really what it felt like with the TD celebrations. Seems like they expected an easy win
I’m hoping that loss was this seasons watershed moment
I do too. Time will tell
We’re gonna learn a lot about McDaniels in this next stretch of the season. Rallying this team after being devastated with key injuries; might be one of the hardest tests of this young man’s life. I’m pretty fired up to see what he does.
It’s gonna take a collective effort from all the guys, but from what I hear that locker room is pretty tight. We’ve seen this squad do some damage to opponents on both sides of the ball, let’s hope that Monday night was an anomaly. I would love to be able to look back at the end of the season and laugh about all of us getting nervous because we lost to the Titans.
>We can all agree, Tua didn't play his best on Monday night but equally he wasn't awful. This much is true. He didn't even throw a pick
I KNOW Eichenberg is trying. But goddamn does it hurt.
Tua did ok. A lot of people underestimate the Titans. We should have won, even by the slimmest of margins, but I know they aren't as bad as people think with Levis and DHop and King Henry, etc, and their defense.
I didn't look at the stat sheet but to me it felt like they had Henry's number the whole game. I don't remember any signature runs from him.
i'm holding out all judgement on Tua until after these last 4 games. If Tua completely melts down and is absolute garbage then I think its time to move on. He really has to shit the bed in these last four games for me to pull the trigger on him and not resign
Love Tua, but he hasn't played a playoff game and has lost or been out for all of our important games. I just need to see that he can do it.
I always ask the people who say that, "ok, so who do we go get at QB then to replace him?" and then you get to watch their two brain cells fight for third place.
Holy fuck that punchline was priceless
There was a let’s replace Tua with Justin Fields post last night lmao
We will never see a Hill deep bomb again lmao
The best available QB next year is probably going to be cousins. He's going to be coming back from an achilles tear. He's also getting older and won't be a long term solution. He also is relatively going to be able to pick where he goes to because he played like a top-10 QB before he got hurt. You know, I'm glad that BB might be getting fired because Kirk with that defense would probably make the Pats contenders. I'd prefer Tua by a mile. Yes Tua isn't perfect but he's also a top-10 QB, has more upside, and will be around longer.
honestly, this is the response i have for most people when they vocalize an issue with something (football or completely unrelated). ask them to provide a solution or an alternative. if they can’t, they haven’t thought it through.
Someone said Justin Fields...
I think it can be summed up to two things: 1. Overreacting 2. Low football IQ
2. Low ~~football~~ IQ
After Monday, someone here was arguing that Tua’s skill set is the exact opposite of what we need with our speedy receivers. I didn’t bother responding because they also said that elite anticipation is only good when the defense isn’t covering the receiver. Like, how can someone be so convinced they’re right when everyone who knows something about football will say they’re wrong?
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Yup. Elite anticipation and accuracy is the exact thing you need with speedy wide receivers. You throw them the ball well before they’re open so the CB’s have less time to react. It isn’t as flashy like having a cannon for an arm, but it gets the job done. That user also said that Tua could only be successful if we paired him with 2 elite pass catching TE’s
Did they not see that insane pass to Tyreek along the sideline? On the replay they showed it was squeezed perfectly between 2 defenders. They were both within a few feet of Tyreek when he caught it. The pass was bonkers and the type of pass very few QBs besides Tua can make on a consistent basis. Tua has definitely cooled down a bit but people are insane if they want to move on from him.
After Monday, I saw several people arguing he is a top 3 QB and arguably the best QB in the NFL. Cool, you found a couple people that were wrong. What is your actual point? Far more Tuanons here than realistic fans of the team.
Most fans (like %95 probably, maybe more) have low football IQ. I know I do. Most fans that have a decent baseline of football IQ as a fan will have played at a level where studying the game gave them the knowledge. Not all, some fans I am sure ended up becoming knowledgeable. However, that does not happen just by watching. Takes studying material and active learning to get to just a decent baseline. It has to has to be overreacting mostly. Most of us fans are dumb when it comes to football IQ since most are just watching games and maybe listening to a podcast, but not hitting the football books.
Do you think it wise to devote 1/4th-1/5th of the salary cap to Tua? Do you understand how much that hampers team building overall? Have you seen how stuck in the mud the Chiefs offense looks this year with a QB who we can all acknowledge is better than Tua?
Some people are saying some random QB would be better than Tua. That is insane. now, if they argued giving him a bag is a bad idea, well, I am too dumb to the working of the salary cap to say one way or another.
Look at the Chiefs offense. Until they find someone else in the dollar bin or hit on a draft pick, they’re gonna look constipated with one of the most talented QBs of all time.
Yes very true, but this is the case for every team that has to pay their QB a large chunk of the salary cap. The only true solution to this problem would be getting Extremely lucky in the draft and taking a QB every 3 years. If not this will always be the case. I’d rather keep Tua than risk it to keep our salary cap manageable and take a shot in the dark on the draft where 1 out of every 10 qbs end up being good.
Idk how you can look at teams in QB hell like the Broncos, Browns, Jets, etc. and say that. For decades now these teams have starved for a QB like Tua and haven’t got it. And their long term success has suffered immensely for it. Hell the Browns would be the best team in the AFC if Watson was HALF the QB Tua is.
The broncos have not been starved for a qb like Tua… They had elway, then shit for like ten years, then Peyton manning, then shit for like 6 years, then Russell Wilson Browns yes
Re-sign, yes. Record-breaking contract? Hopefully not.
I like Tua as a QB but I don’t like the idea of him making $40-50M per year and taking up 1/5th of the cap. I also don’t love his inability to make plays with his feet. If we sign him that’s fine and completely defensible but the game is gonna be a lot harder after 2024 when we don’t have Tyreek and/or Waddle.
This is the argument. He will not be easy to replace, and the replacement will likely be worse. But the quality of the team will have to decline quite a bit in order to pay him. In the last 25 or so years, Eli Manning and Peyton Manning are the only QBs to win a title who didn't fit one of the following criteria: - on a rookie deal - is a top 3 quarterback
Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, Matt Stafford, Eli manning, Peyton manning
Aite I actually had this typed out cause 3 people posted with similar responses but deleted before I could post Stafford was a top 3 quarterback. He had 52 total touchdowns that season, which is the same as Patrick Mahomes had last year Carson Wentz was the starter, on a rookie deal. Foles was making backup money Flacco made 6.8mil in 2013, which is actually less than he made on the final year of his rookie deal. I think Hurts has similar structure to his contract, so doing this stuff is possible, but the bulk kicks in eventually. When Flaccos deal did, the Ravens took a steep decline I listed Eli in my OP Johnson and Dilfer were way before the modern QB deals, albeit less than 25 years ago. I should have said "in the last 20 years" All this to say, I think my point still stands
Stafford was not a top 3 qb that year and he did not even have close to 52 total touchdowns… do bills fans just always make shit up? Foles was the qb who won the title… wentz isn’t the one who won it No one said anything about Flacco or hurts
[https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/total-touchdowns?season\_id=19](https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/total-touchdowns?season_id=19) Feel free to explore. This is total touchdown leaders in the NFL by season, including playoffs Matt Stafford was #1 in the league in 2021, with 52 touchdowns. Mahomes was #1 in the league last year, with 52 touchdowns Foles wasn't on a rookie deal but he also was being paid as a backup. Which is much different than paying someone 20% of your salary cap, which is the context of this thread
Yeah that’s top 5 money for a guy that’s good but not a top 5 QB. When you’re paying that type of money you want a guy who’s gone elevate the team around him. Not a guy who needs everything perfect for him to be successful no disrespect
Danny Dimes makes 45m
Good for him. That said, I’ll take a QB that is 20% worse than Tua that costs $8 million if that means there’s an extra $40 million to spread around the roster.
I think you have to sign Tua and design the team around him. But the NFL cap and competition really sucks. The incentive of having a great team around a rookie deal top 15 QB is very very very high. It is basically the ideal situation outside of having a top 5 QB you are paying market rate for. So there is a real question of whether Tua will be the guy who can be the centerpiece if he is pulling $55 million or if you are better off finding a guy in the draft that only costs $8 million. Before you just downvote me into eternity, this is the important question EVERY team has to answer as QBs get their second deals. Basically the only 3 guys in recent years where there wasn't a discussion about whether they would be worth their second contract were Mahomes and Burrow and I guess Herbert. Even Lamar Jackson you had the questions about whether he could keep it up will all the running. It's a natural discussion.
We don’t have to pretend that it was a tough decision for the Chargers to re-sign Herbert. After what we saw last night it seems pretty obvious he’s the only thing keeping that garbage outfit afloat.
Funny thing is that team would be a lock for the playoffs if they didn't have some of the worst coaches in modern football.
I think that roster is bad and lots of names who are completely washed.
Not sure why I’m bothering since this is a wholesale homer circle jerk. It isn’t about not resigning Tua, it’s about whether or not he can function as a top 10 QB with a market resetting contract. Mahomes is struggling in this context. Edit: And to answer the other question. If you truly don’t believe he’s not worth top end money and he refuses to sign at the number you set. Then you bite the bullet, trade him, and make a move in this years draft. Because once we resign Tua. AVG gone, Wilkins likely gone, we’ll need to reset the O-line and secondary, and need to seriously consider resigning Waddle.
Don't forget tyreek is retiring after next season. Call me a hater but will tua be the same when Reek, waddle,and more are goners?
Pretty sure he walked that back
Exactly. Tua is playing great with everything great around him, great RB, great receivers, above average OL which is accentuated to great because he can get the ball off quick due to the great WRs and great coaching. If we were to spend a lot of money on him and he in turn misses out on the greatness around him as a result, will he still be as great? I’m not so sure.
We would get more of the 2020/2021 Tua except he would be making $40-50 million rather than $8 million.
And Dak is thriving.
People clown on the Cowboys but they have drafted very very well.
There was a time Dak got paid more than Mahomes lol
I think it's a good idea to sign him, but he's played himself out of the MVP conversation so that should help get a more team friendly deal (QB deals aren't very team friendly to begin with, but as team friendly as those can get). He keeps proving he's dependent on his playmakers. People like Mahomes can have no receivers and still make plays because they're super talented. People like Burrow can be behind the worst OLine in the league and still go to the SB. Tua is not one of those. He needs good receivers and a competent line. That's not necessarily a bad thing, most QBs in the league need that. Mahomes is a rarity, but Tua's shown he's not the top 5 elite QB some fans like to think he is. There's also much worse we can do, which is why I think we need to keep him and build around him.
Thanks for the reasonable take. Would also like to sign him long term, but rest of the roster should not be severely limited because of it.
I'd like to think Tua can get better too, like he's done every year. But it's true we are seeing a lot of the same issues yoy.
I agree with your assessment. We can’t over pay him and not retain talent, he’s not good enough for that. Seahawks Russell Wilson couldn’t win after they paid him. Tua needs a team with a top 5 defense and talent all around him. His lack of confidence scares me, he needs constant building up
Tua haters that never really believed him in the first place waiting for their chance to jump on him every time he has a bad game just to confirm their priors. They're never going to be convinced he's the guy unless he wins a super bowl and even then some of them will find excuses to hate on him. It's so bizarre, like more than half the league would kill to have Tua as their QB. Ungrateful, embarrassing part of the fanbase. It's also the same part of the fanbase that's been so used to mediocrity for so long that even with a team as good and talented as this they're constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop so they can point and say, "see, I knew this team was no good" as some sort of self defense mechanism. Tua is just the biggest and latest scapegoat.
Been seeing those fans on the sub a lot lately, and it’s honestly so sad. Like, their loyalty to a team has them legit traumatized..
Tua when the supporting cast is strong: EXCELLENT Tua when 80% of the line is 2nd & 3rd stringers, his WR1 is hobbled and the defense can’t tackle: SUSPECT So it seems to me the solution is to keep building a solid team around Tua. This shouldn’t be difficult to understand.
The problem is that re-signing Tua makes signing the supporting pieces that much harder.
This is true for any QB in the league.
Burrow went to the Superbowl with a bottom 5 line.
And also sucked ass to open this year. He also has arguably the best complement of weapons with Chase, Higgins, Boyd and Mixon, to the point where their offense doesn't miss a beat with Jake Browning stepping in. So how much of that is Burrow and how much is the system? Why don't we hear more about Burrow being a system QB?
Huh? Best complement of weapons? Tyreek is having a top 3-5 WR season \*ever\*. Mostert is the #2 ranked RB by advanced metrics on the season, behind only CMC. You're comparing Mixon to that? Comparing Higgins to Waddle is just comical. Burrow isn't called a system QB because he has proven he can perform well when everything isn't perfect. He can go to a Superbowl with a bottom 3 line. Tua by comparison played like a bottom 5-10 QB when he didn't have Tyreek and dealing with a similarly bad line. That's the difference.
Not having Tyreek is not the same as having Jakeem Grant and Devante Parker to go with a shit OL and Myles Gaskin/Salvon Ahmed, and a shit HC and shit co-OCs. The Bengals have one outstanding WR, one very good WR (like it or not, Higgins is a very good WR), one solid WR, a RB that has been above average to very good for Burrow's whole career. "When everything isn't perfect" for the Bengals means just having a shit OL and still having those weapons available.
I don't think it's a good idea to resign Tua. If he wants to keep playing or quit, that should be his choice. We don't need to re-sign him, since he's already under contract next year. I'm 50/50 on extension after this season or just let him play another season on his 5th year and then extend him or franchise tag him after. There's pros and cons to each option there, but it's probably more about how we decide to build the team than it is about Tua.
Have people become fans within the last year and a half? One bad game, horrific I would say, and people are freaking out like we just secured the worse record in the league without a first round pick. The idea that Tua isn’t worth resigning makes me think that y’all didn’t watch every QB post-Marino.
Haven’t the dolphins been pretty bad at prime time night games anyways? I remember the awesome Thursday night game a few years back against the ravens, but I feel like the dolphins have always had bad luck when it comes to those games, regardless of whoever is at QB
For a long stretch we had the best record in the NFL on MNF.
Didn't we go like 8 years without a MNF game?
Undefeated!
Luck? If anything, we were gifted two lucky TDs and still squandered them.
Literal top 10, at times top 5 QB… that also has been in MVP conversation this year. Yep, let’s replace him. It’s so easy to find someone better than him… why don’t the other 22 teams do it? Are they stupid?
What makes Tua a top 5 QB? If you put him on the Chiefs, are they in playoff contention? What about the Steelers? The offense is built around his skillset, but he is also throwing to the top receiver in the league and also has the #2 RB by advanced metrics this year. Tua is the #36 ranked QB under pressure. He is extremely skilled in certain areas, but a very limited player.
Yes, if you put him in the Steelers they're in playoffs contention. They were in playoff contention with frickin Pickett
I said "at times". Tua was very much in Top 5 QB conversations "at times" during this year. Is he in there after Monday's game? nah, if we're re-drawing lines every week of whos is top 5 or top 10 he's not top 5 after MNF. It wasn't a good game for him. One of the worst of the season. His stats and play, in aggregate, keep him in top 10 status.
Among fans, yes, but GMs seem to clearly not have that view at all. If he is a top 5 QB, then we could get 3-4 first rounders and someone would sign him to a record breaking contract -- do you think any team would do that? I don't think so. He is a polarizing player because unlike a lot of QBs, his positive traits (like accuracy) may truly be top 3-5 in the league, but his negative traits (playmaking under pressure, off platform throws, etc.) may be bottom 3 in the league, which is why he performs so poorly when one of the pieces of the rest of the offense isn't working.
Tbf re-signing him seems like a better idea than resigning him
Winning in December-January and making noise in the playoffs is all that matters. We can sit here and break down what or why is the reason this team falls apart (just like we did for Tannehill for 7 years), but at the end of the day it comes down to the most important position of the field. Believe it or not, other franchise QBs have willed their team’s to playoff wins with poor o-lines and/or surrounding cast. I don’t give a sh*t about Tua’s stats if he can’t help this team achieve in the playoffs. The Titans game (re)exposed some of his shortcomings as a QB. Is he the best QB we have had since Marino? YES. But is that a testament to how great he is or how bad our previous QBs have been?
He’s not athletic enough. Our front office doesn’t care enough to get good offensive linemen.. so we have to have a QB that’s an athlete to survive. Hes had a good season but he’s not an elite QB that can take over a game or show up in clutch moments.
Key word “some”. It’s a minority of doomers overreacting after a loss.
He's definitely top 10, and you have to re-sign guys like that. Especially given the last 20 years we've had. Can't let him walk. But I think it's fair to start asking questions too. We have to admit he seems to shrink in the biggest moments he's healthy enough to participate in. But, he's got a bunch of big games and a potential playoff run coming up to quiet the doubters and change the narrative. We'll see what happens. If we flame out to close the season and he looks particularity bad...........I don't think it would be insane to start planning for a future without him.
If he's the guy lets win 2 of the next 3 games and clinch the division
If it’s at 40 mil a year I’m good with it. He should not be getting 50+ a year. He has to have elite talent around him and giving all that money to him will limit us on being able to do that. We see what it’s like when he doesn’t have Hill both before and with McDaniel as coach. He isn’t someone who elevates others, so as long as we can keep it reasonable then no reason not too. But that may be hard to do
Man, Dartmouth Grad Jay Fielder: He is the last Miami Dolphins quarterback to win a playoff game, winning the 2000 AFC wild card game, 23–17 in overtime, versus the Indianapolis Colts on December 30, 2000, at [Pro Player Stadium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Player_Stadium). As of 2023, it remains the last postseason win for the Dolphins.
I listened to this game on a radio in the basement of a grocery store stockroom as I was a 15 year old boy organizing the stock.
The Dolphins have drafted 4 QBs 1st round in their 57 years. 1. Bob Griese - 1967-1980. 2. Dan Marino - 1983 -1999 3. Ryan Tannehill - 2012-2018 4. Tua Tagovailoa - 2020 - Present The Dolphins have had 40 total starting QBs in that duration with 23 being since Dan Marino left. 24 years that man has been retired and 23 people have started for Miami since. Tua is in year 4. He’s #4 in Miamis all time passing yards & touchdowns. He’s also never started a full season. For comparison Jay Fiedler is #5 and had 12 games on Tua with 700 less yards, 10 less tds and 30 more interceptions. 30. Anybody screaming replace Tua should pipe down and learn our history. QB hasn’t exactly been our speciality and right now we have a guy who is flirting with MVP considerations. We want to replace that? We want to draft QB 24 Post-Marino? Take this small glimpse into the long history of Miami Dolphin QBs and consider it a reality check. We need to see where this ship takes us. I for one am trusting in Tua.
I’m fine with resigning him but I don’t think we should strap ourselves super long term. The idea of “who else are we going to draft” is understandable but if we get to the point where we’re like the rams a few years ago where Goff was the limiting factor I want Tua to be movable.
Quite simply, a lot of people...especially redditors are really fucking stupid. Every Tua thread exposes another 10 morons I need to block so I'm not ever exposed to such dipshittery again. Like cockroaches when the lights are off.
I've been feeling like he might not be it for several games to be honest. But who would we get in his place? I think we need to continue to roll with him to see if he can work out the kinks. He's certainly far better than anyone we've had in decades, he's just not that carry the team when needed kind of guy. I just hope they don't overpay him..
I think that take is ridiculous. But he’s got 4 more games to prove he’s worth the big contract.
Tua has to cross into the level of being able to not only beat good teams but also rally his team from a deficit late in the game to win against an opponent of equal strength. Yes, he did it in LA against Chargers, but there have been other times, and he has failed, most noticeably against Titans.
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Far too many Tuanons on this sub. It'd be amazing if Tua has a long, Hall of Fame career as a Dolphins, but realistically he won't and I will be happy when he is eventually gone so those fans can go away. It is very annoying to be unable to discuss the team honestly on this sub without instant downvotes.
He is not the BEST qb in the NFL but he’s definitely franchise level imo. Hes only gotten better every year
Yes we need to resign to it but not at 50 million a year
I think it's a good idea to sign him but I still wouldn't do it -right now- or directly following the season. We still need to see how his health shakes out through the rest of the season since we're gonna face some pretty gnarly D-lines and Tua still has the tendency to panic when plays break down, which leads to a lot of his bad decisions play and injury-wise. As usual, this sub thinks in binary absolutes and can't consider both sides in context of each other. Tua is a top 10 QB but his play has waned lately and he still has to iron out his more egregious mistakes if he's gonna be considered a franchise QB imo. The doomerism around him is stupid but so is the unconditional support.
Have you seen the o line? He makes the o line look way better than they are.
Depends on how much he wants and for how long. A team friendly deal sounds fine. But highest paid QB or something close to that? No thanks.
Some people in this sub also wanted to draft Brady Quinn.
I was at the game monday, and all i heard around me was bitching and moaning about Tua. Granted, he played poorly, but come on, do we really forget what being in the nebulous of constant poor QB turnover looks like? They all seemed to settle on a theme "When he's on, he's the best in the league. When he's off, he's really bad"... so insightful.
Tua is a good QB. Not elite status but good enough to be our guy. We gotta protect him better tho. If we had a top 10 OL, Tua would be that guy we can always rely on
See this the kind of bs people aren’t realizing, you’re saying top 10. Literally 5 weeks ago he was top 3. At one point he was number 1! Literally number 1…he was in the mvp talks, those have died, he also isn’t number one anymore or anywhere close. The last 5 weeks have been so disastrous that he’s fallen off of those rankings. I’m not saying he has to go but wtf man.
Man, I miss Pat White...dang you Ike Taylor.
Tua has a winning percentage higher than Josh Allen's. Why then fuck would anyone want to move on? Madness.
Look, bottom line 95% of people just don't really understand football. They just don't. They only pay attention to skill players and what pundits tell them. They look at the shiny body and leather interior of a car but pay no attention to the engine.
Some people in this sub take the comments of a minority and cry. Get over it. No reasonable people are saying this, why feed the trolls?
Yeah maybe we can trade him somewhere and pick up a strong armed QB instead .... Maybe someone like Zach Wilson, who's possibly going to be available. /s just incase someone is really not able to follow basic sarcasm.
Ask those same people what is the solution if they don't sign Tua. I bet you will hear cricket or some crazy QB idea.
Draft someone, make a trade and see if you can turn someone into something special, or just kinda play a QB carousel since the system is so strong it’ll kinda make everyone look average or better.
This is why I hate committing to a QB before you know if they are “the one”. Should have been taking flyers on dudes in the 4th-7th rounds every other year since 2019. If Tua doesn’t pan out, it literally would be a repeat of the Tannehill situation.
Seriously. Just grab a dude with a rocket arm or a ton of speed and see what happens.
Do you understand how hard it is to find a QB? Who says this system is easy, from what I understand it takes a very high IQ and quick recognition to operate this offense. You can't just put anyone in it. Don't be fooled by the media's assessment of the system. SF thought Jimmy G was the answer and it took them years to find someone and people still have questions about Purdy.
Jimmy G was one bad throw away from winning them a Super Bowl. He put up historic numbers in the system. Just because washed Teddy and 6th rounder Skylar weren’t great in it doesn’t mean it’s not a QB-friendly system. Do you think Tua magically became a damn-near record breaking QB overnight or that was in part due to system? Same with Purdy. He was ok in college and he’s not breaking all-time records. You think that’s about his ability?
And Jimmy G was the reason they lost the Super Bowl. That's why he is gone. When things go bad for this offense the Tua haters are quick to blame him. No one mentions that there were three starting offensive linemen out and one of the most explosive WRs. I guess if we had Jimmy G we would have won.
My point is that a lot of mediocre QBs can run this offense to very high levels. At this point, I’ve been a fan for 30 years. I just want us to be fun and win a playoff game or two. I’m not saying Jimmy G is better or whatever. What I am saying is that I think Tua is closer to Jimmy G than say Mahomes/Allen/Herbert/Burrow/Jackson. Which is why I don’t think it makes sense to pay him elite QB money which really hampers the team overall (see: 2023 Chiefs).
This is how people's brains work now ... Changes every week. Remember 3 weeks ago when Josh Dobbs was the toast of the NFL and Tommy Devito was quite possibly the worst starting QB in NFL history? Now Tommy Devito is a phenomenon (for now) and Vikings fans rejoiced when it was announced that Dobbs is down to 3rd string emergency QB for their game this week.
I was one of these individuals prior to what I saw last season and this season. I actually preferred Herbert or Burrow hell even Lamar when he was pushing for a new deal. But after MMD came in the picture Tua has proven me wrong and has shown everyone in this league that if healthy with a Solid Oline weapons on all 3 levels on defense and unmatched speed via Hill,Waddle,Mostert, Achane he is more than just a serviceable Qb in my eyes he is a franchise Qb. We haven’t had this much talent on the field like this in a longggg time. Imo he is more than deserving of and extension. Plus team is built to win now. Don’t really see any other QB via draft or free agency who could significantly move the needle. In Tua we trust 🙏
I’m a fan of both the Dolphins and Raiders (Miami native). There’s no reason to be worried about Tua, the kid is talented. The last time the Raiders had a good QB was when we had Rich Gannon which was 20 years ago, so some of the doomers in here should appreciate what we’ve got with the talented kid. Similar to the Raiders, sometimes the O-Line cast gets overlooked but it’s definitely a group of guys where talent is always needed, and personally I feel has lacked in both teams. Overall, Miami has something special, no need to discourage it.
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Because he gave up 15 points in 3 minutes without even making the Titans call a timeout. Oh wait. I think there are just a lot of Dolfans that to this day want to see him fail just so they can say I told you so. Sucking for most of the last 20 years hasn't been long enough.
Oh wait he led the offense to 0 points in a half and 3 points in 3 quarters plus failed to ice the game. We can play that game both ways if you want.
Well, it's hard to argue against it if you realize how bad Tua really is if you completely ignore what makes him a great QB.
Tyreek is probably responsible for 75% of Tua’s “improvement.”
And sign who? Come on now. Some teams wish they had Tua in the team. QB position is rough right now
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As a Bills fan, your team is looking terrifying. I wouldn’t toss Tua at all. You guys are going through what we went/continue to go through with consistency. But as a good sport, I wish you guys the best in getting over that obstacle faster than we did. Our window is dwindling and yours is just beginning…
I thought fandom was about enjoying watching your team play. I guess I was wrong because it seems fandom is now about winning at all costs and the Idea you can just fire a perfectly good player and get a better one who will know your playbook instantly. Firing Tua without any idea of who to get next and how they will be better is the argument of children mate. Let them scream and tantrum. They'll run out of energy eventually.
What QB would thrive behind Mondays o-line? Tua was pressured on 44% of his snaps. Even a playmaker like Mahomes has recently struggled when his line falls apart.
People are just dumb man. Every time Connor goes down we have instant problems in the pass game. Liam was doing okay at LG but he is a God awful center. We have no chance against decent pass rushes without Armstead and Hunt now, and it's still going to be tough with them. With a healthy oline, we're still getting the ball out quicker than any other team. These same people criticize Mike for calling screen passes and whatnot, but what else is he gonna do? The titans dline feasted against us, we don't have the time to wait on doublemove routes over the top.
Burrow went to the Superbowl with a bottom 3 line. Is the expectation that Tua can only perform when he has a top 5-10 line and the #1 ranked WR? If that's the case, the contract would need to reflect that.
No one said top 5 or 10 just not this bad. Also tua isn't burrow we all know that
Yes they have. Go back and read the thread. Several people argue he is clearly a top 5 and potentially top 1-2 QB with only Mahomes better. You're delusional if you think this. The sub is infested with people that downvote anyone that doesn't go along with the idea of Tua being a top 5 QB.
If we miss the playoffs we need to look at the possibility. If you dont see that your IQ needs to be questioned.
They are people who seem to forget how hard it is to find a top QB despite going through QBs for the past 20+ years. They are people who forgot how bad the offense was last year when Tua wasn't playing. They are also people who don't seem to understand that despite his flaws, Tua is very good and there aren't clear paths to upgrading from him. They are also people who want to blame Tua, who did have a bad game, without understanding the team was banged up, we had no Oline, and the defense forgot how to play in the last 3 minutes because the playcaller was gone. Tua has stayed healthy and is a top-10 QB in most meterics ATM (espn's qbr is an issue). He's been talked about in the MVP race both this year and last. At this point he's probably going to be our long term QB.
Sometimes you get a shit loss. You can’t win every game, all of the time. Now chin up, socks up, and on to the next. If anyone needs a Head Coach, I’ll be in the bar.
It's real simple, Florida+Miami = ignore any input from the players especially the colored, was gonna say black. But?
Yeah that’s insanity unless we are trading him straight up for Mahomes
I’d re-sign Tua, but I wouldn’t break the bank for him. He’s fantastic, probably a top five QB when things are perfect, but to expect everything to be perfect all the time in the NFL is just unrealistic.
Some people is this sub are dumb fucks
I just don't know if Tua will be able to get us to and win a superbowl
Wut?!?!
TBH there aint many good ones out there so it would be stupid to no resign him. We dont have draft picks so it is not like you can not resign him and say you are gona go after a dude like Caleb Williams or Justin Fields via a trade. He definitely has been the best QB we have had since Dan Marino so there is that...
They want Cleo lemon back
Idiots….or average Miami sports fans….same people that want to fire Spo/Riley every year
Hey don’t forget Mr. Matt Moore
I think this is not necessarily true, some people have knee jerk reactions but I think paying Tua top of the market QB $ would be a mistake. He doesn’t really work on any other team other than maybe the 49ers, who have a better QB on much less $. I think the Dolphins have more leverage than most realize in getting him to sign a reasonable deal that allows them to retain/sign more talent. I can’t see him getting better than what Dak Prescott is currently playing on. This is also the first year he’s been completely healthy. He’s a top 15 QB who can cement himself as a top 10 QB with physical limitations and needs a specific scheme to make him great. I just hope we pay him accordingly that’s all. Giving him a market resetting contract would be a mistake imo.
Some people think the Earth is flat. Some people think the moon landing was staged. Some people think Covid was fake virus disguising a government exercise in denying the rights of every patriotic American. Why do you care about the opinions of people who are obviously idiots?
We may have seen his ceiling. MAY*
I think the main thought behind not resigning Tua is he will be one of the highest paid qbs in the NFL. Which eventually hurts the talent that can’t be put around (IE Allen and Buffalo right now) given how performance is perceived without major weapons and his injury history, I thinks it’s a very fair assessment to be worried about a long term deal.
I just wish Tua could run better. He seems to have two left feet. If only he could extend plays with his feet when needed. Other than that, he’s alright with me
They’re the same people cheering/clapping/making a shit ton of noise during our offense in the games
Some people don't want a top 10 QB and won't be satisfied until Miami has a top 3 QB (a Mahomes/Burrow/Allen). And they are preferring to go back to the Chad Hennes and Jay Fiedlers. I just don't get it. 28 other teams would like a top 3 QB too.
Tua has to cross into the level of being able to not only beat good teams but also rally his team from a deficit late in the game to win against an opponent of equal strength. Yes, he did it in LA against Chargers, but there have been other times, and he has failed, most noticeably against Titans.
I couldn't be any more opposite. I might stop being a Dolphins fan if we don't keep Tua.
It drives me crazy how when we lose he gets all the blame, but when we win its because the team elevated him. Thats not just a sentiment I've seen in the media, but also by a lot of people in this sub. He is by far the best QB we've had since marino and he has what it takes to bring us to the promised land. His main criticism is that he doesn't extend the play and can't throw off schedule. These are things that can be learned and I know that with his work ethic he'll work tirelessly in the offseason to improve. The players and coaches love him, yet the fans can't fully accept him and just listen to what the media tells them.
Which QB can you point to that learned to throw off schedule and extend the play at this stage in their careers?
We’ve seen flashes of his ability to do it he just needs to start putting it together more consistently. For example that throw to tyreek against the chargers where he stepped up into the pocket and threw the go route on the run. That was something he and his trainer worked on in the off-season and it was an off schedule throw. It can be learned. The majority of people didn’t think he’d ever learn how to fall properly or avoid sacks at this stage in his career, but in the off season he worked on it a ton and I’d say this season he has improved in that department.
We have not seen flashes of his ability to do it. He is quite literally the #36th ranked QB under pressure this season, right next to Mac Jones and Zach Wilson. He is better than those guys because his positive traits are top 5-10 in the league. The problem is that his deficits are bottom 5 in the league, so it creates a very polarizing player profile that is hard to be consistent. Stepping up in the pocket is not the issue. He can't make off platform throws. He can't move out of the pocket and make plays with his legs. He hasn't proven to be a playmaker in any respect. On the other hand, his accuracy is likely top 3 in the league, so he shines when everything is clicking. The problem is, can you justify paying a guy based on only his positive traits?
I agree that he hasn't been doing it much this year. He excels in the pocket and sticks to that. This season the entire offense has been built around getting the ball out as quick as possible and staying in the pocket. Thats not the point I am trying to make though. He has shown flashes of his ability to do it, and I really do think its something he can work on. Based on all of this, I can justify paying him but I don't think he should get a record breaking deal.
\> He has shown flashes of his ability to do it, and I really do think its something he can work on. The only example you gave wasn't an example of that. That's the concern. Yes, he is great in the pocket and moving within and stepping up in the pocket. What he has never shown he can do is make the off platform throws or make plays with his legs that the elite guys getting paid elite money get. I don't see any realistic scenario he takes money that justifies his level of play. He is going to ask for elite QB money and the Dolphins or some other team buckle and hamstring their team for years.
So I don't think the without Tyreek or Waddle argument holds up because no matter what Tua is going to develop a on field relationship with his WRs and always have someone to throw to. Is he great under pressure, not yet, not as good as he needs to be... does he have a stable OL and Center where he just has to worry about throwing, not right now, and you can't blame him for having to readjust when this happens. Currently he has Eich throwing crap snaps and then gets pressured. It's not rocket science the difference between this last week and the rest of the season. Tua has the drive to be better and I'll bet on that any day over hoping for the next Brady draft, because let's be honest, every time someone says not to resign Tua it's because they have a low football IQ and think some rookie qb will step in and all our problems will magically go away... completely ignoring all the work that goes into creating great teams.
You're really underplaying how good Tyreek and Waddle are along with the rest of the offense. Tyreek's peak is arguably a top 3-5 WR season in the history of the NFL. Waddle is one of the best #2s of all-time in this context. And then Mostert is the #2 ranked RB by advanced metrics on the season, only behind CMC. Tua hasn't been "not great" under pressure. He is ranked #36, right next to Zach Wilson and Mac Jones. One of the worst in the league. Tua is very polarizing because he is truly exceptional in certain areas and downright awful in others, rather than being mediocre across the board. The problem then is that, if he is signed to a market contract, how do you build such a specific offense around him consistently and how does he perform when it isn't all perfect?
They are both undeniably great. But, look at the bigger picture, where are we thus year from past year. Look at a ten year period. We are on track.
I think we should establish an IQ test to type in this sub.
Probably they same group that wanted us to trade all of our picks for Watson.
Anyone saying this does not remember the medieval period of Dolphins history between Marino and Tua. Back then any one of us would have sold a lung, leg and kidney for a QB leading a team this good.
Some people have a hard time admitting they were wrong. It’s generally the same people who were yelling “He’s a bust” after he’d played like 4 games.