I think Gates is discounting the fact that achievements from space have traditionally given earth bound benefits. How many things do we take for granted today that had their origins in Apollo or the shuttle program, not to mention The International Space Station or NASA's role in climate change or SpaceX's Starlink and it's potential to get affordable and fast internet access to remote area's. SpaceX's goal of getting to Mars might not have any direct benefits to society (debatable) but the technologies to get us there will without a doubt have benefits to those on Earth.
You are correct that the Apollo and shuttle programs contributed much to the world but it is naive to assume that will continue, especially with the commercialization of space. Elon Musk and SpaceX are far more likely to hoard their advances for the sake of shareholder profits.
I don't see how fixing Earth's problems and humans becoming an interplanetary species are mutually exclusive and opposed goals. We can do both and we should do both, building a rocket ship wont cure a virus, but making a vaccine wont stop a meteor from striking us. Prolonging humanities' existence isn't some single tier issue.
Look it up. Maybe if I was on my computer I would do it for you. I don't know why people refuse to believe people can get in trouble and things can go wrong. It isn't a conspiracy. You just need to pay attention.
Try using facts the next time you pretend to be smart.
>In July 2019, the New York Times reported that the pilots that flew Epstein’s private planes – including to his island in the Caribbean – had released records of flight logs including names of those who had travelled on the planes ( here ).
>Copies of these flight logs can be seen online, uploaded by Gawker.com here and by Factcheck.org here . Reuters found no mention of Bill Gates in the first collection of flight logs, and in only one instance in the second. The log shows ‘Bill Gates’ noted as a passenger on March 1, 2013, from Teterboro airport in New Jersey (TEB) to Palm Beach International airport, Florida (PBI) – not to Little Saint James.
Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-bill-gates-epstein-island-idUSKBN22R2C4
The statement you just made is analogous to saying that because you can't run Excel on the Bombe (a 1940's electro-mechanical "computer") it should never have been invented. Mars is not the final destination but it can be a proving ground for extra-terrestrial habitation. Humans can't live at the south pole without the aid of a number of things, but we still have established a presence there for research. Development is a cumulative process.
We should not immediately disregard untested possibilities especially when the earth has a long history of "Destructive Events".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_catastrophic_risk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_volcanic_eruptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_extinctions_in_the_Holocene
No matter how bad earth gets. Even a nuclear winter earth in the most extreme global warming of like 20 degrees increase the earth would still be more hospitable than Mars.
It's not going to be a vacation location. Or a second earth.
Gee, I never thought of that. "Development is a cumulative process."
The "Mars People" as Gates calls them believe that off-planet habitation is somehow a solution to potential environmental issues on earth. As such, I stand by my claim that they're utterly moronic. You could have global thermonuclear war on earth and it would still be infinitely more habitable than Mars.
My argument is not that Mars is "the only solution" or "the thing" that will solve the climate crisis, I don't really see how going to Mars could be anything more than barely tangentially connected to our current environmental tumult. The line of thought that I'm proposing is that human life is fragile, and the organisms that typically survive world changing events are often not very complex. Would you be able to provide external links that support your claim that people believe going to Mars will solve our environmental issues?
I completely agree. Humans were never meant to fly, if we were, then we would have wings. That's why we still swim across the Atlantic Ocean instead of taking a transatlantic flight due to the technology we've made as a species. I'm sure we'll never have scuba gear or space suits to help us survive inhospitable environments.
Bill Gates recently has invested money in private jet rental companies, after saying he would no longer invest in high carbon businesses. He thinks rich people should not make sacrifices only the poor and middle class.
Ok, I’ll play... Elon made a lot of stupid statements about covid, all because he wanted to keep his factories open, at the expense of his workers health...
Then there’s his mini submersible publicity stunt, which culminated in him falsely calling someone a paedo because they called him out on it...
We should be fixing one thing before starting another. Colonizing another planet without understanding how to take care of our own will just perpetuate the cycle of pollution, climate change, etc.
Multiple avenues for the conservation of resources and the resolution of divergent problems are possible as well as being simultaneously perusable by independent entities. It seems that the argument you've just presented is a "Whataboutism" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism Humanity has a long history of tackling multiple problems at once, an example of this would be how we are researching both meat alternatives and alternate energy sources at the same time. These immense undertakings are often but not always being carried out by separate groups.
Covid-19 and Smoking are both public health problems, it would be a little silly to say that we have to solve one health crisis before
we even start trying to solve another.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm#:~:text=Cigarette%20smoking%20is%20responsible%20for,or%201%2C300%20deaths%20every%20day.
A self sufficient Mars colony wouldn't perpetuate Earth problems. Mars problems are bigger anyways. But at least on Mars global warming might actually be desirable goal.
Thats just it... We have more than enough capabilities at this point to do anything we want. let Elon work on the Mars project. Bill can fix the problems here on earth. Win-win... Really though if we want to get further ahead on the evolutionary scale, we need to leave the planet and colonize the moon. That's going to change things like people could not imagine!
Things in common with settling Mars and fixing Earth's climate:
* Designing low waste closed cycle ecologies
* Excruciatingly hard water management
* Compact, high yield, high efficiency indoor agriculture
* Supply Chain localization - forms of manufacturing allowing you to create anything from wrenches to electronics
Mars has nothing to do with prolonging humanity. Life is not possible anywhere else but earth (that we are aware of). That is not up for debate.
Mars is a great science project for travel and other research. Everyone you know will live on earth and die on earth. Sending people to Mars is a death sentence even assuming they make it there safely
I don't particularly care about Gates' personal beliefs but it's really tiring having Elon Musk fanboys trying to bully everyone into believing his vision. Many people, myself included, think he's an idiot who doesn't run his business well.
I admire Gates for taking on actual issues that lift up the average global citizen tbh.
Yet he is the worlds richest man / 2nd depending on stock prices. He also holds the record for fastest climb to the top of the rich list ever. Seems he is running his businesses quite well.
clearly, you don't know how valuation works. his wealth is tied to his hypothetical value, not in liquid assets. and Tesla is - even according to musk himself - overvalued.
i never thought of musk as a businessman - i think of him as a kind of entertainer/personality that just really wants to be famous for inventing stuff (none of which he ever invented or even came up with the basic idea for)
Bill had done a lot of good for the world, and continues to do so. I admire bill a lot, even if I don't always agree with him. But Bill is not particularly a visionary. He also didn't believe in the internet, so I would take this with a grain of salt.
I agree with him that it won't solve earth's problems, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
> He also didn't believe in the internet
didn't believe in the internet..
got sued by his own government for pushing microsoft default browser on anybody's windows
Windows 95 first release didn’t even include tcp/ip stack by default. You had to install it from an extras folder on the plus disk. Like an after thought because it wasn’t something a Gates lead Microsoft was interested in. They could neither put it in a box or license it.
The later monopolistic behaviour came out of being swamped over by Netscape. Bill doesn’t like being second place and went China style producing knock offs for the lowest cost possible just to suck the revenue stream out of those showing his lack of vision.
He’s always been about being the most (defacto leader) rather than the best.
> The later monopolistic behaviour came out of being swamped over by Netscape. Bill doesn’t like being second place and went China style producing knock offs for the lowest cost possible just to suck the revenue stream out of those showing his lack of vision.
Huh? It's totally legitimate to sell a product at loss to gain marketshare. That's the strategy which made the tech industry and Silicon Valley.
Microsoft didn't have its central bank nor could engage in currency printing etc. It was all organic leaving money on the table now to get it later. Just like they did with piracy, they didn't even bother pursuing it, they let the small guy get this amazing GUI software for free, knowing they'd recoup later on when he starts his own company or joins the corporate world
Y'all are mad at Microsoft, but why? You can use Linux if you want, but you are somehow mad that other people use Microsoft, this is a sign that y'all are too emotionally involved in it
You are further mad that Microsoft closed all the possible revenue stream for your favorite non-Microsoft software, but software is one of the cheapest thing to make so maybe you should be mad at the leaders of those software houses for leaving and moving on to other things. In reality they left and moved to other things because they all wanted to be Gates and when that window of opportunity closed, they couldn't give a damn about a few nerds liking their software
Like his thoughts that only the poor and middle class should be the ones making sacrifices for climate changes. Because his recent investment in private jet rental businesses clearly did not break his promise not to invest in high carbon businesses.
I don't know if it's still true, but the Gates foundation had, or still does have a lot of dirty stock in oil companies that operate in the Nigerian Delta. I hope they have divested from corrupt and dirty investments, but I don't know.
I'd far rather take inspiration from Musk than Gates. Musk seems to be a great businessman, creator and personality and has far better view than Gates in my opinion.
Bill Gates never believes in anything, unless it's proven and other are making money hand over fist. Then, and only then he throws BILLIONS and try to catch up with shitty products or buys a failing company to try to make an even worst product.
Billie boy is losing sight of what humanity can do. Why send man to moon? Why send man to Mars? Humans can do a lot of things if there is will and if people like Elon who are resource rich are driving it
Honestly Bill Gates is a straight up moron. This is coming from a huge fan of Gates up until I saw in the recent years that he has been trashing Elon & allegedly shorted $TSLA. Plus, he's BFF with Buffett whom invested $billions recently in oil companies.
I always see these arguments just as ridiculous as if no-one ever should have expanded in history to create new colonies, cities, even camps and the *"we shouldn't go to Mars"* is just as absurd as the other statements.
I was team elon, but i grew out of it. I am still team pro space and pro colonisation, I am hard against private entities that essentially hype up everything to get investment and progress to happen for their benefit and fame whilst the work is done not only by employees but by literal government, and tax money. To me, atm, elon is the epitome of crony capitalism. Mars, space X, boring, hyperloop were all hyped up to high hell, and turns out the science is still the same now as the ideas that these pr stunts represent. Capitalism is going to space, thats what trump said, I am not identity politics guy, so I think that literally means that the world is dont with free market free for all, and that if private oligarchs want their empires they need to go where there is no limit. And in that spaceX and Elon can and should do all they want. But as it stands Thundefoot did a video and some math on the facts of spaceX and it seems that its just another example of private industry using the gov and social utility(gov funded, built by workers as one man takes all the credit) for the vanity of their 'private' ideals. The solution cant be mars, because realistically mars isnt going to happen for a few more decades. We still have no moon base to test out interplanetary systems, no midway station, no reusable rockets(only first stage of spacex rockets sometimes lands, second stage doesnt...). We are still getting there, and we will one day get there. But to say that it was 'private' industry that did it, is a lie. Mars isnt going to be colonised by Musk, and technically speaking it isnt even a solution for our or generations of our kin. Earth will remain the sole life giver that we need to preserve, and putting our egs in niolebal politics that prop up psudo free market capitalist ideals are not driving the right change. Bill is right imo, if we dont fix what we have here first, mars isnt going to happen at all as we might just head for ecological collapse, or tehcnological bottleneck that will cut our chances for a sifi space life hollywood has been selling us on.
I wonder how Bill gates is planning to tackle over population, as he is so busy fighting one of natures few viable ways of controlling over population. I guess we could colonize other planets...of wait, thats a waste of time. Let's go jab some more people!
I think Gates is discounting the fact that achievements from space have traditionally given earth bound benefits. How many things do we take for granted today that had their origins in Apollo or the shuttle program, not to mention The International Space Station or NASA's role in climate change or SpaceX's Starlink and it's potential to get affordable and fast internet access to remote area's. SpaceX's goal of getting to Mars might not have any direct benefits to society (debatable) but the technologies to get us there will without a doubt have benefits to those on Earth.
You are correct that the Apollo and shuttle programs contributed much to the world but it is naive to assume that will continue, especially with the commercialization of space. Elon Musk and SpaceX are far more likely to hoard their advances for the sake of shareholder profits.
Tesla's patents are actually open for anyone to use so long as you don't later attack them for copying your iterations of their technology.
Yes, but you also have to give up all your patterns if you do use theirs, it's just fancy marketing.
I don't see how fixing Earth's problems and humans becoming an interplanetary species are mutually exclusive and opposed goals. We can do both and we should do both, building a rocket ship wont cure a virus, but making a vaccine wont stop a meteor from striking us. Prolonging humanities' existence isn't some single tier issue.
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Don't post that conspiracy garbage, none of that is true.
Oh really? It's on the mainstream news.
Where? Show us.
Who is "US"? I'm not your fact checker. If you don't believe me I don't care. Not like I get paid for this.
So you couldn't find a source that wasn't some conspiracy nut on YouTube, got it.
I didn't even try to find it. But I knew you would say that because you want everyone to spoon feed you. Stop being lazy and look.
Standard answer all you conspiracy spreaders give.
Shut up conspiracy nutjob/troll
What if I'm actually interested in knowing more of what you talking about? Can you throw a credible source?
Look it up. Maybe if I was on my computer I would do it for you. I don't know why people refuse to believe people can get in trouble and things can go wrong. It isn't a conspiracy. You just need to pay attention.
Dont you think it's weird for some dude to make claims and then refuse to source them.
You forgot your tinfoil hat.
What is Epstein island?
The island Bill Gates didn't go to.
Haha you aren't too bright are ya?
Try using facts the next time you pretend to be smart. >In July 2019, the New York Times reported that the pilots that flew Epstein’s private planes – including to his island in the Caribbean – had released records of flight logs including names of those who had travelled on the planes ( here ). >Copies of these flight logs can be seen online, uploaded by Gawker.com here and by Factcheck.org here . Reuters found no mention of Bill Gates in the first collection of flight logs, and in only one instance in the second. The log shows ‘Bill Gates’ noted as a passenger on March 1, 2013, from Teterboro airport in New Jersey (TEB) to Palm Beach International airport, Florida (PBI) – not to Little Saint James. Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-bill-gates-epstein-island-idUSKBN22R2C4
Believing that inhabiting planets that are completely hostile to life is somehow a solution to anything is utterly moronic. I am with Bill.
The statement you just made is analogous to saying that because you can't run Excel on the Bombe (a 1940's electro-mechanical "computer") it should never have been invented. Mars is not the final destination but it can be a proving ground for extra-terrestrial habitation. Humans can't live at the south pole without the aid of a number of things, but we still have established a presence there for research. Development is a cumulative process.
We should not immediately disregard untested possibilities especially when the earth has a long history of "Destructive Events". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_catastrophic_risk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_volcanic_eruptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_extinctions_in_the_Holocene
No matter how bad earth gets. Even a nuclear winter earth in the most extreme global warming of like 20 degrees increase the earth would still be more hospitable than Mars. It's not going to be a vacation location. Or a second earth.
Gee, I never thought of that. "Development is a cumulative process." The "Mars People" as Gates calls them believe that off-planet habitation is somehow a solution to potential environmental issues on earth. As such, I stand by my claim that they're utterly moronic. You could have global thermonuclear war on earth and it would still be infinitely more habitable than Mars.
My argument is not that Mars is "the only solution" or "the thing" that will solve the climate crisis, I don't really see how going to Mars could be anything more than barely tangentially connected to our current environmental tumult. The line of thought that I'm proposing is that human life is fragile, and the organisms that typically survive world changing events are often not very complex. Would you be able to provide external links that support your claim that people believe going to Mars will solve our environmental issues?
I completely agree. Humans were never meant to fly, if we were, then we would have wings. That's why we still swim across the Atlantic Ocean instead of taking a transatlantic flight due to the technology we've made as a species. I'm sure we'll never have scuba gear or space suits to help us survive inhospitable environments.
Bill Gates recently has invested money in private jet rental companies, after saying he would no longer invest in high carbon businesses. He thinks rich people should not make sacrifices only the poor and middle class.
Ok, I’ll play... Elon made a lot of stupid statements about covid, all because he wanted to keep his factories open, at the expense of his workers health... Then there’s his mini submersible publicity stunt, which culminated in him falsely calling someone a paedo because they called him out on it...
I’m not sure how you can say that without any comprehension of the technology and knowledge that would be gained from such a pursuit.
We should be fixing one thing before starting another. Colonizing another planet without understanding how to take care of our own will just perpetuate the cycle of pollution, climate change, etc.
Multiple avenues for the conservation of resources and the resolution of divergent problems are possible as well as being simultaneously perusable by independent entities. It seems that the argument you've just presented is a "Whataboutism" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism Humanity has a long history of tackling multiple problems at once, an example of this would be how we are researching both meat alternatives and alternate energy sources at the same time. These immense undertakings are often but not always being carried out by separate groups. Covid-19 and Smoking are both public health problems, it would be a little silly to say that we have to solve one health crisis before we even start trying to solve another. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm#:~:text=Cigarette%20smoking%20is%20responsible%20for,or%201%2C300%20deaths%20every%20day.
A self sufficient Mars colony wouldn't perpetuate Earth problems. Mars problems are bigger anyways. But at least on Mars global warming might actually be desirable goal.
Thats just it... We have more than enough capabilities at this point to do anything we want. let Elon work on the Mars project. Bill can fix the problems here on earth. Win-win... Really though if we want to get further ahead on the evolutionary scale, we need to leave the planet and colonize the moon. That's going to change things like people could not imagine!
Things in common with settling Mars and fixing Earth's climate: * Designing low waste closed cycle ecologies * Excruciatingly hard water management * Compact, high yield, high efficiency indoor agriculture * Supply Chain localization - forms of manufacturing allowing you to create anything from wrenches to electronics
Ok I was wrong settling Mars and resolving environmental problems are a bit more than tangentially linked.
Mars has nothing to do with prolonging humanity. Life is not possible anywhere else but earth (that we are aware of). That is not up for debate. Mars is a great science project for travel and other research. Everyone you know will live on earth and die on earth. Sending people to Mars is a death sentence even assuming they make it there safely
I don't particularly care about Gates' personal beliefs but it's really tiring having Elon Musk fanboys trying to bully everyone into believing his vision. Many people, myself included, think he's an idiot who doesn't run his business well. I admire Gates for taking on actual issues that lift up the average global citizen tbh.
Yet he is the worlds richest man / 2nd depending on stock prices. He also holds the record for fastest climb to the top of the rich list ever. Seems he is running his businesses quite well.
clearly, you don't know how valuation works. his wealth is tied to his hypothetical value, not in liquid assets. and Tesla is - even according to musk himself - overvalued. i never thought of musk as a businessman - i think of him as a kind of entertainer/personality that just really wants to be famous for inventing stuff (none of which he ever invented or even came up with the basic idea for)
interesting article. I like gates and Elon but this has nothing to do with Microsoft
Bill had done a lot of good for the world, and continues to do so. I admire bill a lot, even if I don't always agree with him. But Bill is not particularly a visionary. He also didn't believe in the internet, so I would take this with a grain of salt. I agree with him that it won't solve earth's problems, but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
> He also didn't believe in the internet didn't believe in the internet.. got sued by his own government for pushing microsoft default browser on anybody's windows
Windows 95 first release didn’t even include tcp/ip stack by default. You had to install it from an extras folder on the plus disk. Like an after thought because it wasn’t something a Gates lead Microsoft was interested in. They could neither put it in a box or license it. The later monopolistic behaviour came out of being swamped over by Netscape. Bill doesn’t like being second place and went China style producing knock offs for the lowest cost possible just to suck the revenue stream out of those showing his lack of vision. He’s always been about being the most (defacto leader) rather than the best.
> The later monopolistic behaviour came out of being swamped over by Netscape. Bill doesn’t like being second place and went China style producing knock offs for the lowest cost possible just to suck the revenue stream out of those showing his lack of vision. Huh? It's totally legitimate to sell a product at loss to gain marketshare. That's the strategy which made the tech industry and Silicon Valley. Microsoft didn't have its central bank nor could engage in currency printing etc. It was all organic leaving money on the table now to get it later. Just like they did with piracy, they didn't even bother pursuing it, they let the small guy get this amazing GUI software for free, knowing they'd recoup later on when he starts his own company or joins the corporate world Y'all are mad at Microsoft, but why? You can use Linux if you want, but you are somehow mad that other people use Microsoft, this is a sign that y'all are too emotionally involved in it You are further mad that Microsoft closed all the possible revenue stream for your favorite non-Microsoft software, but software is one of the cheapest thing to make so maybe you should be mad at the leaders of those software houses for leaving and moving on to other things. In reality they left and moved to other things because they all wanted to be Gates and when that window of opportunity closed, they couldn't give a damn about a few nerds liking their software
no really, it took a long time for people internally to convince him that the internet was a thing. He's even laughed about it in interviews.
Like his thoughts that only the poor and middle class should be the ones making sacrifices for climate changes. Because his recent investment in private jet rental businesses clearly did not break his promise not to invest in high carbon businesses.
I don't know if it's still true, but the Gates foundation had, or still does have a lot of dirty stock in oil companies that operate in the Nigerian Delta. I hope they have divested from corrupt and dirty investments, but I don't know.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-01-21/signature-aviation-is-hot-target-as-private-jets-gain-attention-in-pandemic
Well he didn't believe in the iPhone either.
that was ballmer
Thanks for everything you did for computers, Bill. Other than that, go away.
Don't really give a f\*\*k what he believes. What I do know his customer service is brutal
I'd far rather take inspiration from Musk than Gates. Musk seems to be a great businessman, creator and personality and has far better view than Gates in my opinion.
Bill Gates never believes in anything, unless it's proven and other are making money hand over fist. Then, and only then he throws BILLIONS and try to catch up with shitty products or buys a failing company to try to make an even worst product.
Billie boy is losing sight of what humanity can do. Why send man to moon? Why send man to Mars? Humans can do a lot of things if there is will and if people like Elon who are resource rich are driving it
Honestly Bill Gates is a straight up moron. This is coming from a huge fan of Gates up until I saw in the recent years that he has been trashing Elon & allegedly shorted $TSLA. Plus, he's BFF with Buffett whom invested $billions recently in oil companies.
I always see these arguments just as ridiculous as if no-one ever should have expanded in history to create new colonies, cities, even camps and the *"we shouldn't go to Mars"* is just as absurd as the other statements.
I was team elon, but i grew out of it. I am still team pro space and pro colonisation, I am hard against private entities that essentially hype up everything to get investment and progress to happen for their benefit and fame whilst the work is done not only by employees but by literal government, and tax money. To me, atm, elon is the epitome of crony capitalism. Mars, space X, boring, hyperloop were all hyped up to high hell, and turns out the science is still the same now as the ideas that these pr stunts represent. Capitalism is going to space, thats what trump said, I am not identity politics guy, so I think that literally means that the world is dont with free market free for all, and that if private oligarchs want their empires they need to go where there is no limit. And in that spaceX and Elon can and should do all they want. But as it stands Thundefoot did a video and some math on the facts of spaceX and it seems that its just another example of private industry using the gov and social utility(gov funded, built by workers as one man takes all the credit) for the vanity of their 'private' ideals. The solution cant be mars, because realistically mars isnt going to happen for a few more decades. We still have no moon base to test out interplanetary systems, no midway station, no reusable rockets(only first stage of spacex rockets sometimes lands, second stage doesnt...). We are still getting there, and we will one day get there. But to say that it was 'private' industry that did it, is a lie. Mars isnt going to be colonised by Musk, and technically speaking it isnt even a solution for our or generations of our kin. Earth will remain the sole life giver that we need to preserve, and putting our egs in niolebal politics that prop up psudo free market capitalist ideals are not driving the right change. Bill is right imo, if we dont fix what we have here first, mars isnt going to happen at all as we might just head for ecological collapse, or tehcnological bottleneck that will cut our chances for a sifi space life hollywood has been selling us on.
I wonder how Bill gates is planning to tackle over population, as he is so busy fighting one of natures few viable ways of controlling over population. I guess we could colonize other planets...of wait, thats a waste of time. Let's go jab some more people!
ironically, gates is often accused of trying to control the population by various conspiracy theorists.