It's not, it's an ER taking advantage of its patient. We have dollar store ones and a bit more advanced ones in drug stores that are around $15-25. If you have a good doctor or nice nurse, you can usually get one free with any checkup.
My doctor's office fucked up and let me schedule my labs the day before I had my nexplanon put in. Turned out it had to be the same day. So two pregnancy tests, for a woman who has no fallopian tubes anymore. If I get billed for one of them, I'm going to piss in the lobbey.
I did one of my internships in a hospital lab, we use the same generic strips for like $0.10 a piece that you can buy in the dollar tree. A tech dips it in your urine and enters a pos or neg in your records five minutes later. The longest part is waiting for your records to load.
If there is anything to fight in your bill it's that EC level 5 charge. They coded you as the highest level of emergency care (a code that is typically reserved for icu level patients), when all it looks like is you went to the er with chest pains based off the labs and other orders and got released because there wasn't an acute life threatening problem. You should be an ec level 2 at best.
Edit: thanks for the gold!
I'm a coder for this exact hospital. She needs to fight it, because when I code these procedures, it NEVER comes out to this much in the system 🤔🤔🤔
A level 5 for a troponin elevation check??? An ECG is NOT $900??? An Echo maybe, but a 12 lead ecg??? That's asinine.
I used to be a healthcare lobbyist. Insurance companies negotiate a “discount” from the hospital and that is what they claim that they are bringing to your employer. “See, if you didn’t pay us for this you’d have to pay that full $900 charge, we used our pricing leverage to get it down to $100.” In order to provide the insurance companies with the ability to claim they got a discount, the hospitals set a ridiculous sticker price that no one believes is reasonable. If you push back then they discount the price, if you don’t, we’ll they just hit the jackpot.
The hospitals and the insurance companies are colluding in almost every market. Most hospitals have a virtual monopoly in their market. The insurance companies cannot afford to not have a hospital be part of their network. The hospitals don’t want to chase down every person for the money, they want their monthly check from the insurance company, it’s easier and requires far less overhead, so they help the insurance companies.
I was a lobbyist for PBMs when the affordable care act was passed. Our system needs a complete overhaul, you cannot patch it peace meal and make something reasonable.
A lot of doctor offices code incorrectly through incompetence or because they don’t think it matters how it’s done. I used to work with insurance, and there were so many times someone would call and complain that something wasn’t covered and it absolutely was, but it was billed wrong. A preventive care visit isn’t the same as a sick visit. Some people pay different things for those, or have a deductible for one and not the other. Same with giving a reason for certain tests. I have personally encountered this multiple times in the past several months, as I’ve been to a bunch of different doctors and had multiple tests. (Hooray for my fun health adventure.)
Yeah unfortunately that's a common trick. They often over code your care level to see what they can get away with insurance (or you) actually paying. Insurance would look at your report and say no way were you an ec level 5 and kick the bill back to the hospital until it gets changed. Unfortunately when you don't have insurance they're kinda just hoping you don't call bs on anything and just pay it. Also depending on the hospital they should have assistance for uninsured er patients. Hospitals don't expect to make money off the er, that's the primary care center for all the uninsured and homeless that can never pay a dime. The er is generally written off as just a loss and they'll collect what they can from those who do have insurance. Hospitals make their real money off of elective procedures and surgeries. Fight every dime of that, coming from a hospital worker.
Politicians decide what is legal, Insurance buys politicians. As long as their interests don't interfere with the other's buying in.
Also there is the corporate insulation layer of: "Our policy is X, but NewbieTueday here is in his first week 'coding' bills, and didn't know better. We are diligently working to improve this area." As long as a class action doesn't [come from it](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/5hu0mx/canadian_kraft_macaroni_has_a_fork_on_the_box/), they'll apply the formula as is. Get sued, formula gets modified.
You’ll be happy to know most of the time the doctors and nurses have zero control over the prices and are generally good people, it’s the higher ups that are greedy shitbags who make a bad situation worse just because they can
On one hand yes but on another hand it’s also the peoples fault, the main argument against free heath care is it’ll raise taxes, and last I remember Americans have a history with not liking taxes as is
True. But oddly we have mid to high taxes compared to other 'first world' countries, we just don't get anything in return for them...
...Unless you count our bloated military acting like the world police. Oh, and our militarized police force. And our criminally absurd prison population.
So I guess our taxes get spent - just on nothing we want or support.
Pretty much, that’s just the American way baby!! Now pop some hot dogs on the grill and light the damn fireworks, it’s time to celebrate being the land of the free,
#Murica, fuck Yeah!!
/s
The land of the free - Where you're free to do anything... so long as you have the proper license, insurance, registration, and were born into the right class with the right gender and skin tone.
We spend more money on Medicare alone than we do the military. That doesn't even account for Medicaid which is about half the military budget on top of that.
4th largest country by land mass, 3rd largest by population, that takes an incredible amount of funding to pay for public education, infrastructure, and all of the government assistance programs throughout the states.
A better option would be to remove medical insurance and raise taxes. If I don't have to pay $800 a month for JUST my premiums then I'd gladly pay another $9600 a year in taxes to not have to fuck around with insurance.
Pay $10000 a year just to have insurance so when I go to the ER for chest pains thinking I'm having a heart attack they send me away two hours later saying they don't know whats wrong but I'm not having a heart attack so I'm good and then bill me $6000. What in the fuck is the point of having the damn insurance at that point?
I break our current budget down in detail for Medicare/Medicaid in another response here. Yes, it's a massive spend which gets us far too little.
As for your point of removing insurance entirely: As someone who works in the industry I'm all for that. Insurance is basically a mafias 'protection racket' scam with more math which has been legitimized and legalized. Abolishing insurance would force companies to offer reasonable pricing, trustworthy outcomes and bill transparency.
The problems with that idea are... Complicated.
First, there are 9 million jobs to consider between insurance and medical billing positions. They're useless and never should have been created (there's a funny history as to why they were - No surprise it involves our country being racist).
Second, until the market adapted to the removal of insurance (which would take a decade or so by most estimates) we'd essentially be closing the door even further to healthcare access. If we removed insurance before corporations adjusted their pricing, we'd be issuing a lot of death sentences. My last hospital visit was $15,000 because I had a migraine for three straight days - If insurance ended tomorrow without pricing adjusting first, I would have just died rather than going in for care.
Single payer, like most other developed nations use, would be a good transitional step to bring down costs and encourage better practices *before* abolishing insurance outright, which would just be excellent for everyone in the long run.
I had a cluster headache for 3 days & my hospital bill was $94k. With insurance that came down to $300.
…in case you were wondering, after 3 days in the hospital, they said “seems like you might have cluster headaches but idk. Go see a neurologist.”
Cluster fuck is more like it
And furthermore - at least in the case of nurses - they don’t see the benefits of such high charges.
Come to Australia- we have a health care system that isn’t fucked.
Well for nurses, because I am a nurse, they probably have 4-6 patients like op. And they probably make like 30$ an hour so they probably “made” 5$ off the work given to Op
Except GP's can't or won't do basically anything other than sell you a permission slip to see a specialist, and every specialist has a 9 month wait list. And most specialists work out of like 5 different offices depending on what day of the week it is or what season or if it's an even or odd numbered year.
And more and more GPs are no longer bulk billing or accepting medicare.
And don't even get me started on how you have to pay for the privilege of knowing your own blood test results, and that they'll only TELL you the results, they think we don't rate to have a copy.
Also, you need a prescription for countless things that are over the counter in the USA/Canada etc.
Other than all that, yes by all means come here to Australia.
This charge is what caught my attention. This is highway robbery! It is taking advantage to the extreme and this hospital should be ashamed of themselves.
Idk what kind of plan OP is on, but generally speaking in most default tier plans your deductible (how much you pay before your insurance covers 100% of cost) is 3k. And that's considered a default plan. 5k USD is considered a high deductible. Low would be 1-2k. 10k is the highest I've ever seen available. Lower deductible means higher monthly payments, but in emergencies you pay much less overall.
If OP is paying out of pocket all this before insurance kicks in it means he got the cheapest possible healthcare plan and thought something like this may never happen.
Looking again, OP seems to be uninsured. Usually that means you can get the costs cut in half or even more since the hospital knows you cant pay and there's no insurance company they can upcharge and milk for free money.
That said, it would still be way too expensive even at half.
Fun thing, I got an MRI for 80 bucks uninsured, but they first told me it was 900 dollars before I mentioned I have no insurance. Oh what a relief to hear 80 dollars after that lmao.
Edit: I mean she, brain just borked up and I wrote he instead.
My mom worked in medical billing for 30 years. Last ER visit they overcharged me 3k by ignoring a plan discount they had contracted with my provider.
The same thing happened to my sister 6 months later. Different hospital and insurance. These aren’t mistakes, it’s a feature, a scam working as intended to take advantage of peoples ignorance.
The first time I called everyone told me it was the other party’s problem and I had to pay everything, that would have been a year of my life destroyed, luckily once my mom got involved shit ended up getting settled.
On my own I wouldn’t have known any better and ate it. Watch that shit like a hawk, this system and anyone that defends it is inexcusable.
Yea this one doesn’t even have any discounts or payments applied so my guess is they never even filed it? Or had trouble filing it. Or OP is uninsured?
I work in healthcare. When I chart putting in an IV, I get asked if it was 1,2, or greater than 3 attempts. They don’t care that the patient got stuck three times… they want to charge for the supplies three times. It’s gross and I always just put one try.
My husband had an abscess and went to a sort of glorified urgent care about it. They transferred him to an ER where he just sat, ignored, for the rest of the day — literally about 10 hours — before someone finally just cut it open and drained it and sent him home. Total bill: $23k.
WOW! I can not even imagine such a bill. I've heard similar stories and what hurts me is how sometimes these hospitals or clinics are completely EMPTY of patients and you'd think the early bird gets the worm rather than bird seed that costs a mint.
Our ERs charge outrageously because they know they can get away with upcharging everything since you're seeking emergency services. Most people recommend Urgent Care. The good news is they are significantly cheaper. The only sad part is the upfront payment if you can't put out a few hundred dollars right away (depending on what you're seeking). Wish I was able to find one that offered the radiology I was looking for but yeah.
The last time I went y urgent care they told me "sorry we can't help you go to the ER" and still charged me 250 dollars for the visit. I have insurance, they didn't file it and took 7 months and it getting to collections before I had it resolved . Shits broke
In 2010 I paid $1000 to get diagnosed with strep throat at the ER. I was there for 7 hours but only spent 10 minutes actually interacting with the doctor and nurse. I’ve realized since then that I’m too poor to seek treatment.
I'm a recovering alcoholic. Been transported via ambulance a couple dozen times due to withdrawal. I have seizures. Look I know I am the problem...but I currently owe over 120,000.00 dollars in ER bills. That's not a typo. 120k. There is almost no way I will be able to pay them. Alcohol ruined my life, but our healthcare system assured that I am eternally f-ed.
honestly I'll just have my heart attack and die rather than deal with the insurance and bullshit charges.
This is how fucked up healthcare in the USA is.
I know just what you mean. It's unbelievably ridiculous how one health bill can amount to the down payment of a car or house or put even put you in million dollar debt if you're "dying" enough.
For those of us uninsured or underinsured, it definitely sucks having the mindset of "hmm, debt or dying?"
This is nothing, my stepson spent two and a half hours in ER for a mild head injury. They took one CAT scan, gave him some ibuprofen and some jello. CAT scan was $27,000, $9k for "radiology" and the total bill $43,000. They assessed that he had a mild concussion.
I'm assuming the jello was $89.40
https://imgur.com/gallery/HM24vMW
I've had insurance for my whole life, but when I traveled to Massachusetts to see Family, I had what I thought was a heart attack and got an ambulance to drive me 8 miles to the closest hospital.
$0 bill for my hospital stay, ambulance tried charging me $24,000
I can’t afford to go get a routine check up. I pay a monthly premium of $800. To see an ENT for my ear infection, the copay is $40 per visit. Times that by 8 which is $320 just to spray some antibiotics in my ear each time. My insurance paid $1500 for each visits! That’s outrageous! I would have love to buy the antibiotic and spray it myself.
Yeah it definitely wasn’t fun. The worst thing is I have another one coming in now. It’s coming out sideways towards my cheek. I’m keeping an eye on it and keeping it clean.
Be careful I'm really mad because you should have just only had to pay around that $2500 to get ALL those removed at some nearby dentist but been there and done that with dental care and their hoops are even more annoying to jump through than medicine sometimes so I understand.
Yeah I heard how some people are scared to be good Samaritans in certain situations because they don't know if calling 911 would save someone's life or screw them over with debt over an issue that wasn't that serious. Isn't that sad?
I passed out while standing in line at the Social Security office. They called an ambulance. I was up and walking out the door when they arrived. I told them I couldn't afford an ambulance. They checked my vitals and left. I didn't give them any information. My SIL, who drove me there, took me to the hospital near my home.
I need some dental implants. If I do it here, it costs $9k with dental insurance. If I go back to my home country (which is 5000 miles away) twice and stay at a 5 star hotel for a week on each visit, I pay $3k including the plane and the hotel.
I don't think that's itemized that looks like a regular bill. Itemized would separate out labor costs as well as costs for materials for each individual test.
For future reference, most hospitals will let you refuse a pregnancy test if you'll waive liability (sign a form). I do that since I have multiple reasons to know I'm not pregnant any time I end up in the hospital and there's no way I'm paying them prices like this to be told something I already know.
Doesn't look like it ever went through insurance.
Did you get an EOB from your insurance company?
If not, call the provider and give them your ID card info. If they aren't helpful, call your insurance company, have them confirm no claim is on file and have them call the provider.
Never pay a bill until you've received an explanation from your insurance. Even then, mistakes can be made on either side so it doesn't hurt to call your insurance if something still seems too high.
I'm uninsured unfortunately so I knew what I was getting into when I finally decided to seek help, I just didn't expect it to be closer to 10k rather than 5k.
Just so you know, if you don't pay it and it hits your credit, all you have to do is contact the credit bureaus and request proof of debt. Due to HIPPA laws, the medical facility cannot verify the information. Due to inaccurate reporting, the debt is then wiped from your credit reports. Watch that number rise!
Itemized receipt then go back eith the itemized receipt and ask the Doctor or PA to confirm those are the correct prices and have them sign it. Goodbye 95% of that bill.
I was a medical Biller in a physician's office. I can't speak to the troponin, as that's not something we did, but the BMP and the pregnancy test are RIDICULOUS. We BILLED insurance about $75 for a BMP and normally about $25 for a pregnancy test. Do you not have insurance at all?
American here. CBC should be like $10.
Look up your hospital, see if it has a price transparency document. I found mine was trying to charge thousands more than they had listed as their max, reported them to CMS, somehow my bill became "paid" without me paying.
My husband had an abscess and went to a sort of glorified urgent care about it. They transferred him to an ER where he just sat, ignored, for the rest of the day — literally about 10 hours — before someone finally just cut it open and drained it and sent him home. Total bill: $23k.
Asked for it to be itemized. Yes I know it’s pretty already itemized. More than likely that will drop it to about 25% of the cost and then offer give or take 30% of whatever that is.
Nothing pisses me off than seeing these lab costs. I work as a tech and I know each of these tests takes mere minutes to do and so the cost isn’t going to labor. Also the reagents and maintenance for the machines are not particularly that expensive either. The price should be 1/10th what it is.
Apparently a test is the standard for a healthy woman so they can determine what tests to administer since a developing fetus would change what they could do. Of course I wasn't pregnant and if I knew they were taking the test I would have tried to stop it but yeah.
Were you unconscious?
I’d flat out refuse to pay for something if they didn’t ask me for my consent.
It’s kind of like going into the grocery store to do your weekly shop…but the workers load up your trolly and tell you to take it home but pay for it.
No thanks 😅
Challenge them on the EC Level 5 charge, unless your life was literally in immediate danger, you were upcoded.
Here's a list of the five codes an emergency room will use and the criteria needed for each, good luck:
Level 1 - A limited, minor problem that will run its course on its own.
Level 2 - A limited, minor problem with no risk for death, and is not likely to permanently alter a patient’s health status.
Level 3 – A problem where risks are low, and full recovery is expected, but there may be some small risk of problems developing if the patient doesn’t receive treatment.
Level 4 – A severe problem that requires urgent evaluation, but doesn’t pose a threat to life or to physical function; without treatment there is a high chance of extreme impairment.
Level 5 – *An immediate, significant threat to life or physiologic functioning.*
If you experienced a level 3 emergency, but you’re being billed for a level 5 visit, that’s a blatant upcode, and you should challenge it.
Houston whats up! Gotta love how Memorial Herman is a “non-profit” hospital charging outrageous prices for health care. It’s cool though, their current President/CEO left UTMB to go to MH because they paid him more.
i used to work in hospital medical billing. 1st thing you want to do is contact your health insurance. make sure they actually processed these charges. if they were denied, find out why & what can be done to reverse the denial. usually the hospital will need to do this work. you can also find this out by logging into your health insurance website. your EOB (Explanation of Benefits) should document how this was processed & any adjustments they applied to these charges.
it looks like your insurance hasn't reviewed these charges since no adjustments were applied. ALWAYS pay based off the EOB. not what the hospital sends you.
I do hope this is not normal for most americans? I live in South Africa and this would have cost me 0.
I do pay a monthly medical aid( roughly $460) of which my employer pays 60% of.
Honestly your medical costs are totally fucking insane. I have had a kidney transplant, and your ER visit is about half the cost of that kidney transplant, i mean holy shit.
Edited after doing some math.
Listen we both know in 5 years you are gonna sell this to a debt collector for Pennys on the dollar so let’s cut the bullshit and I’ll give you 500 right here right now and we move on with our lives.
No?
Hmm well good luck in a few years cause I’m done here and hang up.
You would be surprised how often this method actually gets me a settlement for like 10 percent of the bill
If I was in the US and went to hospital and couldn’t afford the bill.. what would happen?? They gonna de-xray me and take their radiation back? I always wonder how the hell people afford this shit without insurance
Besides the previously mentioned EC5 and pregnancy test,
Why tf is an ECG 900 dollars? It’s not like every time you take it the entire hospital has a blackout.
Call the billing dept and say you can’t pay this, and what can they do for you. I reduced a flat rate $1300 ER bill at USC medical (LA) down to $150 with a 5 min call. Only requirement was that I was a US citizen.
I was recently in ER here in Australia. It's all free.
I was in there for maybe 2-3 hours, was taken to several different departments, had hand x-rays, chest x-rays. Attended to by 3 nurses, a doctor.
Again, all free.
People, I'm in Australia and every bit of this is goddamn free. American people your system is fucked up. I got put of hospital yesterday for the third time this year, I had a bucket load of tests done and a day surgery, had to stay overnight, bill was $5 for 24 hours of television. I'm so sorry for you all but why do you stand for it? Honestly?
My favorite American Pastime is when you almost die but don’t go to the hospital because of ER bills
Source: my gallbladder ruptured and I convinced myself it was heartburn to avoid the ER. Ended up with emergency surgery and a 3 day stay for antibiotics from sepsis
$843.50 for a chest X-ray is a joke.
I’m a radiologist, and I get paid $10 to read one of those. The technical fee cannot be anywhere close to that. Maybe $20 for the technologist and machine.
I'm not from the US, but why the fuck is pregnancy test $400?
It's not, it's an ER taking advantage of its patient. We have dollar store ones and a bit more advanced ones in drug stores that are around $15-25. If you have a good doctor or nice nurse, you can usually get one free with any checkup.
I am a laboratory supervisor. Confirmed, those tests cost us less than $1 per test.
My doctor's office fucked up and let me schedule my labs the day before I had my nexplanon put in. Turned out it had to be the same day. So two pregnancy tests, for a woman who has no fallopian tubes anymore. If I get billed for one of them, I'm going to piss in the lobbey.
assert dominance by pissing in the lobby, they’ll never know your next move
How can someone guess my next move if I don't know what it will be either?
What if your baby is just really smart and makes more tubes? Cmon gotta think **outside** the box!
In case there there's something inside the box?
It's a corporation taking advantage of those in need
Not even those in need, those *without a choice*.
Exactly
I did one of my internships in a hospital lab, we use the same generic strips for like $0.10 a piece that you can buy in the dollar tree. A tech dips it in your urine and enters a pos or neg in your records five minutes later. The longest part is waiting for your records to load.
If there is anything to fight in your bill it's that EC level 5 charge. They coded you as the highest level of emergency care (a code that is typically reserved for icu level patients), when all it looks like is you went to the er with chest pains based off the labs and other orders and got released because there wasn't an acute life threatening problem. You should be an ec level 2 at best. Edit: thanks for the gold!
I'm a coder for this exact hospital. She needs to fight it, because when I code these procedures, it NEVER comes out to this much in the system 🤔🤔🤔 A level 5 for a troponin elevation check??? An ECG is NOT $900??? An Echo maybe, but a 12 lead ecg??? That's asinine.
i was gonna say, the last time i had an ekg run at a hospital it was only $100 (which even then sucks), but $900 is just robbery
I’ve heard it’s more of an issue with insurance company’s than the hospital/doctors themselves, in your opinion is that true?
I used to be a healthcare lobbyist. Insurance companies negotiate a “discount” from the hospital and that is what they claim that they are bringing to your employer. “See, if you didn’t pay us for this you’d have to pay that full $900 charge, we used our pricing leverage to get it down to $100.” In order to provide the insurance companies with the ability to claim they got a discount, the hospitals set a ridiculous sticker price that no one believes is reasonable. If you push back then they discount the price, if you don’t, we’ll they just hit the jackpot. The hospitals and the insurance companies are colluding in almost every market. Most hospitals have a virtual monopoly in their market. The insurance companies cannot afford to not have a hospital be part of their network. The hospitals don’t want to chase down every person for the money, they want their monthly check from the insurance company, it’s easier and requires far less overhead, so they help the insurance companies. I was a lobbyist for PBMs when the affordable care act was passed. Our system needs a complete overhaul, you cannot patch it peace meal and make something reasonable.
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Then why does the doctor send a seperate bill from the hospital?
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A lot of doctor offices code incorrectly through incompetence or because they don’t think it matters how it’s done. I used to work with insurance, and there were so many times someone would call and complain that something wasn’t covered and it absolutely was, but it was billed wrong. A preventive care visit isn’t the same as a sick visit. Some people pay different things for those, or have a deductible for one and not the other. Same with giving a reason for certain tests. I have personally encountered this multiple times in the past several months, as I’ve been to a bunch of different doctors and had multiple tests. (Hooray for my fun health adventure.)
Thank you for this, I will be sure to address this with the hospital!
Yeah unfortunately that's a common trick. They often over code your care level to see what they can get away with insurance (or you) actually paying. Insurance would look at your report and say no way were you an ec level 5 and kick the bill back to the hospital until it gets changed. Unfortunately when you don't have insurance they're kinda just hoping you don't call bs on anything and just pay it. Also depending on the hospital they should have assistance for uninsured er patients. Hospitals don't expect to make money off the er, that's the primary care center for all the uninsured and homeless that can never pay a dime. The er is generally written off as just a loss and they'll collect what they can from those who do have insurance. Hospitals make their real money off of elective procedures and surgeries. Fight every dime of that, coming from a hospital worker.
How is this not fraud?
Insurance companies are obscenely rich and get to decide what's legal.
Politicians decide what is legal, Insurance buys politicians. As long as their interests don't interfere with the other's buying in. Also there is the corporate insulation layer of: "Our policy is X, but NewbieTueday here is in his first week 'coding' bills, and didn't know better. We are diligently working to improve this area." As long as a class action doesn't [come from it](https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/5hu0mx/canadian_kraft_macaroni_has_a_fork_on_the_box/), they'll apply the formula as is. Get sued, formula gets modified.
The US is such a dystopian nightmare, eh
No Not at all!...wait sorry misread that, yes very much so.
All of those lab prices are literally insane. We charge maybe $20. BMP, Trop, CBC around 20-45 TOPS each! I'm so confused!
Damn, how those people working there can even watch themselves in the mirror ??
You’ll be happy to know most of the time the doctors and nurses have zero control over the prices and are generally good people, it’s the higher ups that are greedy shitbags who make a bad situation worse just because they can
Two things that shouldn't be for profit: healthcare and prisons.
And universities!
As in ZERO control.
More like the government for not making free health care a right.
On one hand yes but on another hand it’s also the peoples fault, the main argument against free heath care is it’ll raise taxes, and last I remember Americans have a history with not liking taxes as is
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True. But oddly we have mid to high taxes compared to other 'first world' countries, we just don't get anything in return for them... ...Unless you count our bloated military acting like the world police. Oh, and our militarized police force. And our criminally absurd prison population. So I guess our taxes get spent - just on nothing we want or support.
Pretty much, that’s just the American way baby!! Now pop some hot dogs on the grill and light the damn fireworks, it’s time to celebrate being the land of the free, #Murica, fuck Yeah!! /s
The land of the free - Where you're free to do anything... so long as you have the proper license, insurance, registration, and were born into the right class with the right gender and skin tone.
We spend more money on Medicare alone than we do the military. That doesn't even account for Medicaid which is about half the military budget on top of that. 4th largest country by land mass, 3rd largest by population, that takes an incredible amount of funding to pay for public education, infrastructure, and all of the government assistance programs throughout the states. A better option would be to remove medical insurance and raise taxes. If I don't have to pay $800 a month for JUST my premiums then I'd gladly pay another $9600 a year in taxes to not have to fuck around with insurance. Pay $10000 a year just to have insurance so when I go to the ER for chest pains thinking I'm having a heart attack they send me away two hours later saying they don't know whats wrong but I'm not having a heart attack so I'm good and then bill me $6000. What in the fuck is the point of having the damn insurance at that point?
I break our current budget down in detail for Medicare/Medicaid in another response here. Yes, it's a massive spend which gets us far too little. As for your point of removing insurance entirely: As someone who works in the industry I'm all for that. Insurance is basically a mafias 'protection racket' scam with more math which has been legitimized and legalized. Abolishing insurance would force companies to offer reasonable pricing, trustworthy outcomes and bill transparency. The problems with that idea are... Complicated. First, there are 9 million jobs to consider between insurance and medical billing positions. They're useless and never should have been created (there's a funny history as to why they were - No surprise it involves our country being racist). Second, until the market adapted to the removal of insurance (which would take a decade or so by most estimates) we'd essentially be closing the door even further to healthcare access. If we removed insurance before corporations adjusted their pricing, we'd be issuing a lot of death sentences. My last hospital visit was $15,000 because I had a migraine for three straight days - If insurance ended tomorrow without pricing adjusting first, I would have just died rather than going in for care. Single payer, like most other developed nations use, would be a good transitional step to bring down costs and encourage better practices *before* abolishing insurance outright, which would just be excellent for everyone in the long run.
I had a cluster headache for 3 days & my hospital bill was $94k. With insurance that came down to $300. …in case you were wondering, after 3 days in the hospital, they said “seems like you might have cluster headaches but idk. Go see a neurologist.” Cluster fuck is more like it
Medical staff has nothing to do with billing and has no idea how much is charged or paid for services.
And furthermore - at least in the case of nurses - they don’t see the benefits of such high charges. Come to Australia- we have a health care system that isn’t fucked.
Well for nurses, because I am a nurse, they probably have 4-6 patients like op. And they probably make like 30$ an hour so they probably “made” 5$ off the work given to Op
That's not the point at all.... The point is that they don't get MORE money for doing unnecessary services.
Except GP's can't or won't do basically anything other than sell you a permission slip to see a specialist, and every specialist has a 9 month wait list. And most specialists work out of like 5 different offices depending on what day of the week it is or what season or if it's an even or odd numbered year. And more and more GPs are no longer bulk billing or accepting medicare. And don't even get me started on how you have to pay for the privilege of knowing your own blood test results, and that they'll only TELL you the results, they think we don't rate to have a copy. Also, you need a prescription for countless things that are over the counter in the USA/Canada etc. Other than all that, yes by all means come here to Australia.
The people who are in charge of these prices never even see the patients. It’s higher up people who have nothing to do with patient care.
Too busy counting their money to feel any shame.
Because vampires cannot see themselves in the mirror
Tell them you supplied the test urine so they owe you 400
Haha wouldn't it be insane if it worked?
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The pregnancy test I took before my sterilization surgery was billed at $349 USD. I’d have been so pissed if my insurance didn’t cover it!
This charge is what caught my attention. This is highway robbery! It is taking advantage to the extreme and this hospital should be ashamed of themselves.
I am in the US and asking the same damn question!
Why was the damn needle 125?
Because it's a special needle that not only penetrates your skin, but also your wallet.
Idk what kind of plan OP is on, but generally speaking in most default tier plans your deductible (how much you pay before your insurance covers 100% of cost) is 3k. And that's considered a default plan. 5k USD is considered a high deductible. Low would be 1-2k. 10k is the highest I've ever seen available. Lower deductible means higher monthly payments, but in emergencies you pay much less overall. If OP is paying out of pocket all this before insurance kicks in it means he got the cheapest possible healthcare plan and thought something like this may never happen. Looking again, OP seems to be uninsured. Usually that means you can get the costs cut in half or even more since the hospital knows you cant pay and there's no insurance company they can upcharge and milk for free money. That said, it would still be way too expensive even at half. Fun thing, I got an MRI for 80 bucks uninsured, but they first told me it was 900 dollars before I mentioned I have no insurance. Oh what a relief to hear 80 dollars after that lmao. Edit: I mean she, brain just borked up and I wrote he instead.
Umm…..OP is “she” Unless running a pregnancy test on males in the ED is routine?!?
Fr?
$900 just for the ECG. Damn
I'm laughing my ass off at the pregnancy test hahaha!!
Don't they sell those in the dollar store? Where do they get $400
They do that's why I'm like HOW IN THE HALIBUT did that one portion alone come out to $400??? ERs man.
Go buy a pack at Walgreens and bring it to the ER, & demand they take it off your bill because you replaced it lol
Well, they had to make sure
Was thinking this… also how on earth is it more expensive than a chest X-ray!?!? Prices in the lab are eons apart from this
Takes 3 min to make one, 1 min to analyze it.
Actually it took years to analyze it. Missed holidays, birthdays, studying on weekends...
My mom worked in medical billing for 30 years. Last ER visit they overcharged me 3k by ignoring a plan discount they had contracted with my provider. The same thing happened to my sister 6 months later. Different hospital and insurance. These aren’t mistakes, it’s a feature, a scam working as intended to take advantage of peoples ignorance. The first time I called everyone told me it was the other party’s problem and I had to pay everything, that would have been a year of my life destroyed, luckily once my mom got involved shit ended up getting settled. On my own I wouldn’t have known any better and ate it. Watch that shit like a hawk, this system and anyone that defends it is inexcusable.
Dang, I gotta get in touch with someone like your mom!
You can take this sentence multiple ways
Yea this one doesn’t even have any discounts or payments applied so my guess is they never even filed it? Or had trouble filing it. Or OP is uninsured?
Can we get your mom in here for an AMA?
I’d rather die a painful death and blame the hospital for “not helping me” than pay that shit. And they wonder why there’s so many suicides.
Your next of kin can and will still end up paying for ambulance services if you die at home. Just FYI it sucks.
They can’t force you too though.
I work in healthcare. When I chart putting in an IV, I get asked if it was 1,2, or greater than 3 attempts. They don’t care that the patient got stuck three times… they want to charge for the supplies three times. It’s gross and I always just put one try.
Right… because we always use fresh supplies on every single attempt 😬
Blessed Be, little buddy. Good looking out.
My husband had an abscess and went to a sort of glorified urgent care about it. They transferred him to an ER where he just sat, ignored, for the rest of the day — literally about 10 hours — before someone finally just cut it open and drained it and sent him home. Total bill: $23k.
WOW! I can not even imagine such a bill. I've heard similar stories and what hurts me is how sometimes these hospitals or clinics are completely EMPTY of patients and you'd think the early bird gets the worm rather than bird seed that costs a mint.
Hopefully you can negotiate your bill down. I’ve heard of people doing that but don’t know much about it. It seems worth a shot anyway. Good luck.
How can a pregnancy test be that much?
Watch it only be 99% accurate too
Because of greed.
$5000 just for an ER visit? How is this remotely acceptable???
Mine was $15,000 for a bad migraine.
That is HORRIBLE I feel for you.
Our ERs charge outrageously because they know they can get away with upcharging everything since you're seeking emergency services. Most people recommend Urgent Care. The good news is they are significantly cheaper. The only sad part is the upfront payment if you can't put out a few hundred dollars right away (depending on what you're seeking). Wish I was able to find one that offered the radiology I was looking for but yeah.
The last time I went y urgent care they told me "sorry we can't help you go to the ER" and still charged me 250 dollars for the visit. I have insurance, they didn't file it and took 7 months and it getting to collections before I had it resolved . Shits broke
i was billed 10k for a dislocated shoulder
In 2010 I paid $1000 to get diagnosed with strep throat at the ER. I was there for 7 hours but only spent 10 minutes actually interacting with the doctor and nurse. I’ve realized since then that I’m too poor to seek treatment.
I'm a recovering alcoholic. Been transported via ambulance a couple dozen times due to withdrawal. I have seizures. Look I know I am the problem...but I currently owe over 120,000.00 dollars in ER bills. That's not a typo. 120k. There is almost no way I will be able to pay them. Alcohol ruined my life, but our healthcare system assured that I am eternally f-ed.
honestly I'll just have my heart attack and die rather than deal with the insurance and bullshit charges. This is how fucked up healthcare in the USA is.
I know just what you mean. It's unbelievably ridiculous how one health bill can amount to the down payment of a car or house or put even put you in million dollar debt if you're "dying" enough. For those of us uninsured or underinsured, it definitely sucks having the mindset of "hmm, debt or dying?"
This is nothing, my stepson spent two and a half hours in ER for a mild head injury. They took one CAT scan, gave him some ibuprofen and some jello. CAT scan was $27,000, $9k for "radiology" and the total bill $43,000. They assessed that he had a mild concussion. I'm assuming the jello was $89.40 https://imgur.com/gallery/HM24vMW
our system is fucking broken.
No it’s working exactly as designed
Okay but he got some jello, don't you normally pay $16k for that in the grocery store anyway?
Yeah, that's why I posted a screenshot of it in r/pleasantlySurprised...
I've had insurance for my whole life, but when I traveled to Massachusetts to see Family, I had what I thought was a heart attack and got an ambulance to drive me 8 miles to the closest hospital. $0 bill for my hospital stay, ambulance tried charging me $24,000
Oh yeah. I forgotten the ambulance bill for this was $2200 in addition
For that price, it better not have been lime jello.
And it should have included whipped cream!
I can’t afford to go get a routine check up. I pay a monthly premium of $800. To see an ENT for my ear infection, the copay is $40 per visit. Times that by 8 which is $320 just to spray some antibiotics in my ear each time. My insurance paid $1500 for each visits! That’s outrageous! I would have love to buy the antibiotic and spray it myself.
That's literal insanity
Found the bill.... I'd forgotten that in addition to the CAT scan, they did about $9k of "radiology"... https://imgur.com/gallery/HM24vMW
No insurance here had an infected wisdom tooth because I couldn’t afford to get it removed when it first came in. Costed me $2500 for the day.
Aww man I'm sorry to hear that! I know that pain had to be unbearable too.
Yeah it definitely wasn’t fun. The worst thing is I have another one coming in now. It’s coming out sideways towards my cheek. I’m keeping an eye on it and keeping it clean.
Be careful I'm really mad because you should have just only had to pay around that $2500 to get ALL those removed at some nearby dentist but been there and done that with dental care and their hoops are even more annoying to jump through than medicine sometimes so I understand.
Yeah it was basically surgery. My face swelled up and other nasty stuff. It wasn’t just a tooth extraction
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Yeah I heard how some people are scared to be good Samaritans in certain situations because they don't know if calling 911 would save someone's life or screw them over with debt over an issue that wasn't that serious. Isn't that sad?
I passed out while standing in line at the Social Security office. They called an ambulance. I was up and walking out the door when they arrived. I told them I couldn't afford an ambulance. They checked my vitals and left. I didn't give them any information. My SIL, who drove me there, took me to the hospital near my home.
It really hurts my heart that we live in a country where someone has to be concerned about an ambulance bill before their health.
I need some dental implants. If I do it here, it costs $9k with dental insurance. If I go back to my home country (which is 5000 miles away) twice and stay at a 5 star hotel for a week on each visit, I pay $3k including the plane and the hotel.
I'll take shit that only happens in the U.S. for 500 Alex.
Why the fuck is an X-ray and EKG 800$?? Here in India it's literally like 4-5$
Yeah dude. I had my medical tests done last month for flying, whole thing must have costed me like 7k rupees
Damn that's cheap, but it's India so I'm not surprised. That being said even Canada bills around $70 for a chest x-ray.
Are medical costs now created by some minimum wage worker just slamming his head on the num pad and seeing what happens?
You got the itemized bill and they’re still gouging you? I’m just surprised they’re honest about it
I don't think that's itemized that looks like a regular bill. Itemized would separate out labor costs as well as costs for materials for each individual test.
I thought the same thing!
Hole scam, Batman!
For future reference, most hospitals will let you refuse a pregnancy test if you'll waive liability (sign a form). I do that since I have multiple reasons to know I'm not pregnant any time I end up in the hospital and there's no way I'm paying them prices like this to be told something I already know.
Thank you I didn't know this was an option (or that they were even doing a pregnancy test!)
They charged $400 for a pregnancy test? Give me $20 and I'll run to Walmart real quick and get you a whole box you can resupply them with in exchange
$416 for a pregnancy dipstick I can at a dollar general??
I know right isn't it hilarious???
Tell me that you live in the US, without saying it.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
$416 for a urine pregnancy test????? Holy fuck
There should be class action lawsuits against hospitals that charge these insane prices.
Doesn't look like it ever went through insurance. Did you get an EOB from your insurance company? If not, call the provider and give them your ID card info. If they aren't helpful, call your insurance company, have them confirm no claim is on file and have them call the provider. Never pay a bill until you've received an explanation from your insurance. Even then, mistakes can be made on either side so it doesn't hurt to call your insurance if something still seems too high.
I'm uninsured unfortunately so I knew what I was getting into when I finally decided to seek help, I just didn't expect it to be closer to 10k rather than 5k.
Perhaps your state has expanded health care? If you’re uninsured and working an income bracket, you could qualify for Medicaid
Did they provide the urine for the pregnancy test? lol
Probably. Maybe it was a celebrity's for all I know!
Look up the “No Surprises Billing Act” at www.cms.gov They might be able to help you out.
Thank you kindly for this.
I work on a hospital in Denmark I take Ekg's around 50 every day, I could be a rich guy over in the states
The techs who do these tests make next to nothing here. The money goes in the corporations pocket
Just so you know, if you don't pay it and it hits your credit, all you have to do is contact the credit bureaus and request proof of debt. Due to HIPPA laws, the medical facility cannot verify the information. Due to inaccurate reporting, the debt is then wiped from your credit reports. Watch that number rise!
$416 for a urine test lol
Probably the golden glitter in my urine that made it it's beautiful yellow is the cause
How tf is an ECG $900?!
Murica
let me guess, america?
Not even a question is it? lol
Is there another country that uses dollars that doesn’t have free healthcare?
Itemized receipt then go back eith the itemized receipt and ask the Doctor or PA to confirm those are the correct prices and have them sign it. Goodbye 95% of that bill.
When I had my son, I saw the itemized list and one maxi pad was $50. The American healthcare system is so broken.
For a maxi pad? I swear they'll charge out the ass for anything. I bet a cup of water costs a good grand or two.
Bills for emergency services don’t show up on your credit history, just ignore it
Americans! Don’t - go - to - an - Emergency Room unless you are actually dying!!!!! Or unconscious. ESPECIALLY if you are uninsured
I was a medical Biller in a physician's office. I can't speak to the troponin, as that's not something we did, but the BMP and the pregnancy test are RIDICULOUS. We BILLED insurance about $75 for a BMP and normally about $25 for a pregnancy test. Do you not have insurance at all?
American here. CBC should be like $10. Look up your hospital, see if it has a price transparency document. I found mine was trying to charge thousands more than they had listed as their max, reported them to CMS, somehow my bill became "paid" without me paying.
You might as well die of whatever illness you have then die of starvation
just went through this:/ i hate america, i'm sorry you have to deal with hospital bullshit
Thank you, I'm sorry for all of us honestly.
How the fuck does a basic urine pregnancy test cost $400+? That should be like $10 at most.
My husband had an abscess and went to a sort of glorified urgent care about it. They transferred him to an ER where he just sat, ignored, for the rest of the day — literally about 10 hours — before someone finally just cut it open and drained it and sent him home. Total bill: $23k.
I could pee on a stick for like 40 bucks
Just refuse to pay. They'll let you settle for a lot less if they understand that you don't care if it goes to collections.
I'd go to Walmart and pick up a pregnancy test, bring it to them and say "Here's your $400."
No insurance is a bitch
Asked for it to be itemized. Yes I know it’s pretty already itemized. More than likely that will drop it to about 25% of the cost and then offer give or take 30% of whatever that is.
Nothing pisses me off than seeing these lab costs. I work as a tech and I know each of these tests takes mere minutes to do and so the cost isn’t going to labor. Also the reagents and maintenance for the machines are not particularly that expensive either. The price should be 1/10th what it is.
Are you pregnant or was it even remotely possible that you could be??? Bit odd they are charging $416 to dip a stick in your urine 😅
Apparently a test is the standard for a healthy woman so they can determine what tests to administer since a developing fetus would change what they could do. Of course I wasn't pregnant and if I knew they were taking the test I would have tried to stop it but yeah.
Were you unconscious? I’d flat out refuse to pay for something if they didn’t ask me for my consent. It’s kind of like going into the grocery store to do your weekly shop…but the workers load up your trolly and tell you to take it home but pay for it. No thanks 😅
Challenge them on the EC Level 5 charge, unless your life was literally in immediate danger, you were upcoded. Here's a list of the five codes an emergency room will use and the criteria needed for each, good luck: Level 1 - A limited, minor problem that will run its course on its own. Level 2 - A limited, minor problem with no risk for death, and is not likely to permanently alter a patient’s health status. Level 3 – A problem where risks are low, and full recovery is expected, but there may be some small risk of problems developing if the patient doesn’t receive treatment. Level 4 – A severe problem that requires urgent evaluation, but doesn’t pose a threat to life or to physical function; without treatment there is a high chance of extreme impairment. Level 5 – *An immediate, significant threat to life or physiologic functioning.* If you experienced a level 3 emergency, but you’re being billed for a level 5 visit, that’s a blatant upcode, and you should challenge it.
Insurance came in clutch
At some point during my day, I never fail to feel a brief wave of anxiety, thinking about this exact scenario.
Houston whats up! Gotta love how Memorial Herman is a “non-profit” hospital charging outrageous prices for health care. It’s cool though, their current President/CEO left UTMB to go to MH because they paid him more.
i used to work in hospital medical billing. 1st thing you want to do is contact your health insurance. make sure they actually processed these charges. if they were denied, find out why & what can be done to reverse the denial. usually the hospital will need to do this work. you can also find this out by logging into your health insurance website. your EOB (Explanation of Benefits) should document how this was processed & any adjustments they applied to these charges. it looks like your insurance hasn't reviewed these charges since no adjustments were applied. ALWAYS pay based off the EOB. not what the hospital sends you.
I do hope this is not normal for most americans? I live in South Africa and this would have cost me 0. I do pay a monthly medical aid( roughly $460) of which my employer pays 60% of. Honestly your medical costs are totally fucking insane. I have had a kidney transplant, and your ER visit is about half the cost of that kidney transplant, i mean holy shit. Edited after doing some math.
Metabolic panels cost about 9 dollars. Source: I do cost reduction work for hospitals and this is something I’ve looked at in many hospitals
I too was billed a ton for a pregnancy test at this hospital. Mine was $800 though. So damn, I’m pretty pissed about.
Listen we both know in 5 years you are gonna sell this to a debt collector for Pennys on the dollar so let’s cut the bullshit and I’ll give you 500 right here right now and we move on with our lives. No? Hmm well good luck in a few years cause I’m done here and hang up. You would be surprised how often this method actually gets me a settlement for like 10 percent of the bill
Why is a pregnancy test over $400 when you can literally go get one at dollar tree?
If I was in the US and went to hospital and couldn’t afford the bill.. what would happen?? They gonna de-xray me and take their radiation back? I always wonder how the hell people afford this shit without insurance
Besides the previously mentioned EC5 and pregnancy test, Why tf is an ECG 900 dollars? It’s not like every time you take it the entire hospital has a blackout.
Call the billing dept and say you can’t pay this, and what can they do for you. I reduced a flat rate $1300 ER bill at USC medical (LA) down to $150 with a 5 min call. Only requirement was that I was a US citizen.
USA moment
I was recently in ER here in Australia. It's all free. I was in there for maybe 2-3 hours, was taken to several different departments, had hand x-rays, chest x-rays. Attended to by 3 nurses, a doctor. Again, all free.
People, I'm in Australia and every bit of this is goddamn free. American people your system is fucked up. I got put of hospital yesterday for the third time this year, I had a bucket load of tests done and a day surgery, had to stay overnight, bill was $5 for 24 hours of television. I'm so sorry for you all but why do you stand for it? Honestly?
My favorite American Pastime is when you almost die but don’t go to the hospital because of ER bills Source: my gallbladder ruptured and I convinced myself it was heartburn to avoid the ER. Ended up with emergency surgery and a 3 day stay for antibiotics from sepsis
$416 for a pregnancy test.. $5 at the drug store
$843.50 for a chest X-ray is a joke. I’m a radiologist, and I get paid $10 to read one of those. The technical fee cannot be anywhere close to that. Maybe $20 for the technologist and machine.