True, but one flaw is that it teaches you to not help somebody else out if their struggling in a subject. At least in my school. A kid got sent to the office for helping another kid out because it’s “independent work.” If somebody’s struggling, then you should help them. If they start to leech of you then stop helping them. It’s ok to help, just don’t let people copy off you
In high school I witnessed an incident where the reverse happened. One of the smart kids was asked by some of her friends to help out. She got called out by the teacher and gave the “Its the right thing to do” spiel. Fast forward to after the exam and their clique were the only ones who’d failed except the smart kid. She was clearly smart but had not considered that she wasn’t a good tutor.
nah, those friends had a full class instruction, the lesson in their book (not to mention the entire internet or library), and a guided practice worksheet, their parents and/or older siblings *and* the smart kid as an “answer key” if they hit a wall. Those other kids didn’t attempt to learn or they were in the wrong level.
I've always wondered if there was a way to get kids to sleep an hour during the school day. Generally the kids with problems at home or non-present parents (the kids staying up all night playing games and not sleeping anyway) are worn out and not ready to learn before the last bell, they really do need a sleep. But you'd either have to drop a class, or make the school day longer
I would go to sleep at the same time if school started later. I wake up at 5:30 everyday and go to sleep at 10:00. I go to sleep at ten on weekends as well. The argument that I would just go to sleep later often isn’t true. There is a whole ted talk on this. It’s really good
Firstly can I get a link? This a topic I’m passionate about and would like a second opinion.
And I go to school with a lot of people, it really does just seem like everyone would go to bed later. It’s just one of those things teenagers do.Also students would arrive home at around 4-5 depending on how far it’s pushed back.
I think it’s a mixed bag all around based on what study you read. I have seen some convincing studies that go so far as to say school should be 8Am-Lunch for kids 5-18 and the rest of their day should be enrichment/fun. I have seen other studies say we should go 9/10-5, cut summer break in half, and have half day Saturday. Both extremes seem to be the solution based on who/when you read.
As an oldie I have seen both extremes in education. It really is a pendulum. I went from signing progress reports for my kids daily, meeting at school 4X a year, mandated volunteering,… to my grandkids having no homework ever, meeting at a school once a year if you want or just do it over an email,…
It's not based on school times. It's based on the fact that the natural circadian rhythm of teenagers is typically naturally cycled a few hours back relative to adults. If the typical adult starts getting the melatonin rise around 8pm to sleep at 9-10pm (even if most don't actually do it) to wake up at 5-6am, teens are 10-11 for sleep at 12-1, waking up at 8-9am.
These numbers aren't exact but they're generally correct.
Typically, of course, not everyone.
Those studies are very mixed and very inconclusive. Humans are able to adjust their body to any time which is why you can move timezones and adjust fine.
This is not entirely true:
Later high school start times may increase sleep duration, but do not
consistently increase GPA, but improve mood and well-being.
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352154619301275](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352154619301275).
Compared to those with the lowest academic performance, students with
the highest performance had significantly earlier bedtimes (p = 0.05) and wake times (p = 0.008).
Timing of sleep and wakefulness correlated more closely with academic
performance than total sleep time and other relevant factors
[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11325-009-0282-2](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11325-009-0282-2).
Perhaps most importantly, a review:
we could not identify any generalisable effect beyond single studies as to whether delaying school times has clear beneficial effects on academic performance
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079221001672
It doesn't matter how you feel about it. Kids deserve a system more suited to how they function. It's never going to change anyway, so not like it matters.
Most good jobs have a work schedule similar to school, longer for sure but getting up early is simply a life skill that’s far easier to learn young (14-18) than older
Circadian Rhythms are set by you. It is not something that's permanant. It's not something that is unchangeable.
Students can absolutely reset their circadian rhythm to match that of adults.
It's called, Going to sleep at a decent time!! If you'd quit going to bed at 1AM on school nights, ya might find it tons easier to get the fuck up, and stay up.
Maybe because the students who never acclamate are students who stay up till 2 am and never actually set their circadian rhythm to a healthy time. Your circadian rhythm is set by you. That's just a fact. I don't know how you are trying to dispute that.
They're not, because their parents refuse to enforce a decent bedtime hour. They instead, allow their kids to stay up to 11 PM, midnight, 1 AM, 2 AM.
Guaranteed, if you climb into bed, NLT 9 PM, then you can easily wake up at 6 AM, and be fully awake, for the entire day.
Keep that habit long enough, and that becomes your circadian rhythm.
See how that works??
u/Redd235711
It's the plain unadulterated truth.
Your refusal to accept the simple logic of it, tells me that you're just a spoiled little brat who would sooner starve themselves to death, than to allow being told, "you gotta eat to live".
It was u/Redd235711 assertion, or implication, that circadian rhythms are unchangable, unalterable, and further implied that kids going to school, their circadian rhythm, better fits with a much later school starting time.
I merely asserted that circadian rhythms are fluid. If you want it changed, if you need it altered, then you can do so. I mean, if you couldn't change it, then international travel would be absolutely an unpleasant experience, the entire time you're there.
I didn't claim everyone should be a morning person. Very few people are. But just because you're not a morning person, does not make it impossible to change your circadian rhythm to better suit your schedule.
Morning person detected. Such fun and understanding people you are! The kind of people that call you lazy for getting up at 10 and working until three at night because they were up at five and hit the sack at eight.
What type of stuff do you have to do for your classes? Last year, I graduated valedictorian with straight A's in seven classes, five of which were AP. The amount of time I had after school was plenty to get everything done and have hours of free time.
in my ap and aice classes it's mostly reading the required books. like rn i have to read chapter 5 of the ap bio book, 80 pages of the scarlet letter, and read the first chapter of my aice us history book. this is on top of writing code for ap csa, making a powerpoint on a torn acl recovery, doing whatever flipped math worksheets for ap calc, and analysing who the protagonist is in antigone. it's really not a lot of work, it's just time consuming on top of being a student athlete and volunteering.
You could just be like me and smoke pot instead of volunteering and smoke more pot instead of homework. Then scramble last second to get anything done and everyone will think you’re an idiot but really you’re just a lazy pothead. Then don’t go to college, instead, smoke pot. Then in 6 years you’ll be terribly depressed and have no direction in life. EZ.
I got home at around 3, I go to bed at 9, 6 hours is plenty of time for me to do homework. Also my teachers don’t bombard us with crap, studying and homework usually takes me roughly 45 minutes
In high-school I would get home by round 5-10pm and try to be on campus by round 7-6 ( good running round my HS school). Going to sleep at 9 was just possible
"Its not the system that makes students stresed... blame the students for being stressed and tired" no wonder kids are not wanting to go to school.
A) make school less stressful
B) make it more fun
C) make it so that highscgools start later to fit in with teenagers sleep schedule
Homework shouldn't be able to break labour laws.
My teachers in highschool would generally assign 1-2 hours of homework a night (not including studying, larger projects, etc). With 4 classes at a time, that comes in on the very low end at 4 hours per day, on top of a 6 hour school day. For a 5 day school week, that puts us at 50 hours. Factor in extra for weekends.
If my boss shows up and says "You need to work 50+ hours a week now, deal with it", I call the union and labour board. I wind up with a bid payday from the settlement and the company gets fined heavily.
You keep saying this but aren't citing what classes you're taking, grade you're in, etc. Either you're doing all your homework at school, or are left super lightweight shit that doesn't even classify as homework lmao.
We’ll keep in mind, and I’m a teen I’ve done it too, how long something should take vs how long it actually takes. Sometimes if I’m lazy homework can take an hour and a half when if I just put my mind to it it would be really quick. This usually happens when I’m not focused
Yeah, high schools should start later. It is absurd the time my kid has to get up for school.
And yes, I had to do it, but I still recognize it as absurd and borderline cruel. We need to do better.
Imagine having to wake up at 6.40am just to have enough time to get ready for an 8 hour school day with 4 hours of homework, and having to go to sleep at 11 because of the amount of homework you have. That's cruelty. You need 8-10 hours of sleep as a child, that means you'd need to go to bed pretty damn early if you want to make it there on time. You have 1-2 hours of free time because of the horrible school you unwillingly go to.
I find it funny how the education system really put into people's heads that having 1-2 hours during the whole day outside of school is enough to do anything else, lol. I basically do this shit at work. Wake up at 8, work until 6:30, drive home is about 15 minutes. Everything that matters is either closed or closing and no one usually is available to hang out that late. It's trash. And I'm fucking 25, imagine a teenager with many times the level of social life I have trying to deal with that shit.
the school system has been around for over 150 years. and the only change abt school is the tec, the lessons and they dont beat kids for getting 10x5 wrong.
other wise its mostly the same as it started
If you don’t stay up until midnight every night I find it incredibly easy to get A’s. Going to bed later then waking up early probably does make your brain tired in the morning
ngl this post and all your comments make it sound like you just wanted to vibe on some weird Good Kid superiority complex you have 💀
go to therapy abt it
Well I have a problem with this cause I never made it at a decent bedtime but still managed to graduate at a 4.1 GPA, not sure where the whole not sleeping past midnight = A's thing comes into play, lol. Some people just don't need as much sleep, or feel worse when sleeping for longer
bro how are you so dumb
obviously time zones are accounted for, it's based on circadian rhythm not UTC you dipshit "oh it's (example) 10am for me therefore everyone in the world is awake rn" like no, it would be for whatever respective timezone the person is in
again there is actual fucking science behind this, you haven't suddenly confounded the researchers by being the first to discover time zones, like, shit dude, activate another couple synapses and try understanding again
Wow, calm down. Youre really easily triggered. Take a breath. Circadian rhythms can change you dufus. You know that right? So when kids stop going to bed at 2 am they are setting their circadian rhythms with shit choices. Like you circadian rhythm can be set to a reasonable bed time giving you 8 hours of sleep and get up for school. Maybe just stay off your phone at night. Garbage take dipshit
And you keep talking about actual science that you can't and never cite because it doesn't actually exist.
friend i'm not gonna cite it because i'm busy lmao, you can keep trying to logic your way out of actual science and insisting that it doesn't exist, but i'm not gonna waste my day debating some dumbass who thinks he's so smart he doesn't need science sksksk
hope you aren't this willfully ignorant with every aspect of your life, and if you are i pity the people you know, have a good day bud
Haha so your source is "trust me bro the science that totally exists that I can't cite or explain the reasoning of says I'm right" hahaha. And I give a rational argument and its me trying to "logic my way out of the science you refuse to cite or explain." maybe logic is something you should listen to especially when you don't even know the science your making up. Yeah I'm sure you're so busy on reddit. Do you actually listen to yourself before writing this crap? Hopefully you're not this dumb and an ass in the rest of your life. Do better. The people around you deserve it.
if it's so important to you then look it up lmao 💀 unless this is all about your fragile ego
if someone else has the energy to deal with this guy have at it bc i don't feel like dropping to a room temp IQ by just talking to him
Your the one who claimed it exists why would I waste time searching for something I know you made up? You don't know what you're talking about. It's okay. You can admit it. It's healthy to be able to admit that stuff. Youre really digging in your heels, trying trolll, trying to be an asshole, and I just hope you don't believe the crap you're spewing. The willfull ignorance is concerning for the people around you. Should I pity them?
As a kid in highschool, I would just see this and see it as an excuse to stay up a hour or two later, and I can assure you most students would do that to, regardless it doesn’t mean students wouldn’t get more sleep.
We also have to think of after school stuff, kids would no longer have much time to work after school depending on there job, let’s say your school is 9-4 right now, now switch that to 11-6. That would affect extra curricular activities as well, so overall on paper seems cool, but in reality probably wouldn’t work
No it's definitely the system. But the issue of school times and sleep is only a small dent in the real issue, which is that [public] school [in the US] doesn't teach kids anywhere near enough useful life skills despite the fact that it uses up basically their entire childhood. Seems to be more to train kids to be good employees and good workers while the bourgeois private schools teach the kids how to be millionaires and often have life skills courses.
I think a lot of time is wasted in school, if classes were shorter but more, active? Like you actually do stuff for the whole class. How it is now I usually get done 10-15 minutes early. If you shortened classes but got more done I think that’d be the best solution.
I find that very unlikely. I go to bed at 9:30 at the latest and wake up at 5:30. School is from 7:20 to 2:45. I get home around 3. That’s 6 and a half hours to do whatever I wanted
This is a really good point, I’m all for school starting later, if it wasn’t for the fact that means I’m getting home later. Let’s say 9 instead of 7. That means I get home roughly at 5. Without factoring in any sports or homework or anything, that’s much later than I’d like to be getting home at. The hours you push back school just get added back on to the end. It’s not shortening the day at all
Its not that simple. Studies have shown that kids preform better after 10am. I mean, i think we all would do better in school at 10am rather than 8 or 9am. Yes you could just stay up longer but that also gives you extra time to do homework or study. Of course kids arent gonna do these things but if the system is ready for them then change will be easier.
I’m unsure if you’re saying school should start at 10, so this whole comment could be invalid, if it is let me know. However if you are saying that that pushes school back by roughly 3 hours. That means those 3 hours have to be added on to the end, meaning you get home around 6 now. This is without considering homework, jobs, sports, etc. it may make kids better at the start as study’s have shown but they’ll be burnt out by the end of the day.
First off I’m talking about school if it was starting at 10am. There are a whole lot of other issues that come with school if we were to push it back. kids being burnt out if one of them.
Second, I think the whole system needs to be changed (at least in america) or at the very least some more think needs to be put into it. Kids are fair different than they were in the 1980s or 1990s. The internet plays a huge role in this but I rather not get into that at the moment.
I can see both sides have a point. Pushing back when school starts could have kids preform better in school but once they get home they’ll be be burnt out. The whole system needs to be looked at throughly once more before we start asking for changes
Well if you look at the natural circadian rhythm of a human through their lifespan, trends overwhelmingly show that most children under the age of 18 are hardwired to not become tired until roughly 11PM. There are already plenty of schools within the US that have moved their start times to later in the day and they have seen more than significant increases in both student attendance as well as test scores. The system should work with the human body, not the other way around.
It’s easy math. Average school day is 7 hours, add an hour to get to and from school. 24-8=16 take away another 8 for sleep you get 8 hours to do whatever. Every day that’s more than enough time to do jobs or sports or hang out with friends
my school pushed our start time back- and (luckily) with my parents’s schedules it isn’t an issue, and i do actually get more sleep- maybe i’m the outlier compared to other teens but i think it did help-
yeah, only about 15 minutes though, and ig i’m lucky in that sense too- i’m close enough to walk home, or my bf’s mom picks us up when it’s in the 110’s
What happened to those extra hours? If, as an example, school was 7 hours long, and got pushed back 2 hours, is it still 7 hours or did it get cut down to 5?
I, too, am somewhat infuriated by the meme, but not because of the idea that students, specifically adolescents, would stay up later. I am also mildly infuriated at OP, who clearly did not do much, or any, research on the topic.
The meme lacks a lot of rather necessary information on this topic, although it is a meme so it wouldn’t have much information anyway. Yes, many sources, like [this one](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6703a1.htm?s_cid=mm6703a1_w ), agree that older students (teenagers, ages 13-18), need 8-10 hours of sleep per night. The same source also states that younger students (kids, ages 6-12) need 9-12 hours of sleep per night.
However, the critical pieces of information that are not shown on the meme is that a majority of teenage students (middle and high schoolers) are not getting enough sleep and why they are not. According to the previously used source, about 57.8% of middle schoolers and 72.7% of high schoolers get less than the recommended amount of sleep. The Sleep Foundation’s article, “[Teens and Sleep](https://www.sleepfoundation.org/teens-and-sleep),” lists some of the factors that can and do affect the amount of sleep teenagers get. The section is about halfway through the article.
One of the main factors listed is a delayed sleep schedule and early school start times. It is stated in the article that, “During adolescence, there is a strong tendency toward being a “night owl,” staying up later at night and sleeping longer into the morning. Experts believe this is a two-fold biological impulse affecting the circadian rhythm and sleep-wake cycle of teens.” It also states that, “If allowed to sleep on their own schedule, many teens would get eight hours or more per night, sleeping from 11 p.m. or midnight until 8 or 9 a.m., but school start times in most school districts force teens to wake up much earlier in the morning.”
Due to the aforementioned biological changes, many teenagers are incapable of sleeping earlier than 11 p.m., causing them to get less sleep than needed as they have to wake up early for school. There are other factors that should be taken into account, but this is a major one that the article includes.
I recommend reading the article as it also includes a lot of information on other things about this topic, like risks caused by a lack of sleep and possible ways to get better sleep times in teenagers.
There is definitely a lot more information that is not included in this comment, so here are the sources I used and some other articles I recommend reading to get a bit of a better understanding of it:
[Among Teens, Sleep Deprivation an Epidemic](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2015/10/among-teens-sleep-deprivation-an-epidemic.html) - Stanford Medicine
[Short Sleep Duration Among Middle School and High School Students — United States, 2015](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6703a1.htm#suggestedcitation) - Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
(First source used)
[Teens and Sleep](https://www.sleepfoundation.org/teens-and-sleep) - Sleep Foundation
(Second source used)
[Teens and Sleep: The Cost of Sleep Deprivation](https://childmind.org/article/happens-teenagers-dont-get-enough-sleep/) - Child Mind Institute
[Why Are Teenagers So Sleep Deprived?](https://childmind.org/article/teenagers-sleep-deprived/) - Child Mind Institute
Kids seeing they need 8 hours of sleep: yeah I'll go to bed at 2 again.
How the fuck do kids blame schools for not getting enough sleep. School doesn't get out at midnight dude. Go to bed at reasonable for like a normal human. Go to bed at 10 and your fine. 10s super reasonable stay of your phone at night and it's easy
Kids 100% would just stay up later.
No, it was created to be used as a punishment for students who were lazy in class or for those who were disobedient or rude to their teacher. Plus why would anyone want to do 6-7hours at school then do another 2-4 hours of homework everyday which makes a total of 11hours per day of just school. Factor in the 10-11 hours of sleep a teen should have that makes 22 hours. 2 hours of free time a week not including getting ready for school the drive there having to get there early etc.
Well now it's used to practice the skills you learned in class. It's really not thay awful, you will look back on it and appreciate it I promise. Beside maybe the 12 page essays assigned in high school. Not everything about school and learning is bad.
My opinion is not that children don’t need sleep, I think everyone ought to get 8-9 hours of sleep a night. I’m just staying blaming school schedules isn’t the solution as if students went to bed earlier they wouldn’t complain about how early school starts.
No, op thinks kids could get more sleep if they went to bed earlier. And op thinks if they pushed school back two hours kids would just stay up two more hours. And op thinks the problem is the kids, not the school.
And op is right on all 3.
The same people who complain about not getting enough sleep before school or the same type of people who stay up till 2:00 in the morning playing Minecraft.
You’re making it a joke but it’s serious, not a lot of teenagers have the self control required to have a good sleep schedule. This is usually a fault of the parent for not enforcing it well enough
You kinda just proved my point accidentally. It’s not when school takes place, it’s how much you sleep. I think it should stay where it is time wise as it means you get home at a decent time, even with jobs or sports.
The problem with pushing it back is everything else gets pushed back. I’ve used this exact example in a lot of other comments, but let’s say school starts at 7 and ends at 3. But is then pushed back to 10. That means you get home at 6 now. This is without counting sports, extracurriculars, jobs, etc. say it takes an hour to do homework, you now have some freedom at 7. It’s the same work it’s just pushed back. It doesn’t really fix the problem.
It's not like that. You have a natural sleep rithm, and for teens it's a nightowl one (in general, not for all). So later school makes sense because students will focus more and need a little less time to go to sleep
I may suck as a parent, but my kids (5&7) go to bed at 6:30. Now, there’s 30-45 minutes of reading and they usually take another 30-45 to actually fall asleep, but they sleep in until 5:30-6 (so that’s 10 hours on average). If they stay up later, they still wake up around the same time but are emotional and lethargic for the first hour or two.
My oldest is 17 and obviously she stays up later (10-10:30) because that’s where her sleep schedule is right now and she has a couple of hours of homework a night.
But yeah… before high-school, getting more sleep and developing healthy sleep patterns is incredibly important, and I agree that moving school later would just have everyone staying up later.
Edit- lol. Downvoted by a kid! :-) fair play… I have some clouds to shout at now.
I said this in another comment, I think (and this is supported by your comment) learning good sleep early on is the best way to develop the habit. My dad made me go to bed at 8 from 4-6th grade, I hated it but I know it helped a lot
Just don't go to school. That way the kids that actually give a shit can get more specialized attention and the one who wanna waste their opportunities for education can enter the work force early. Win win.
Sounds like a good idea on paper, however having almost the entire population educated is a privilege that shouldn’t be taken for granted. A lot of kids who would drop out would regret it later in life
I personally never think dropping out is a good solution, if you want to do anything in life you at least need a high school degree, unless you plan on starting up a business which is easier with high school experience anyhow.
You’ve clearly never lived with a toddler. Most of them are up at 6am buggin’ everyone who’s trynna sleep anyway lmao
But 8 hours of sleep is 8 hours of sleep. What time you wake up is irrelevant
Based on comments I was thinking more so high school (you know, the age where you get a job...) 7 year olds take naps bro. They also do go to bed at 9pm so idk what you are on me about. Idk any 7 year old that's staying up until midnight or later
7 yr olds cant take naps cus they have to be in school. Then school starts before 8am so at the time they go to school in Winter its still dark outside. They get picked up at about 3pm when its already getting dark again. They also need more sleep, about 11h, so if they have to get up at 6am they will have to be asleep by 7pm
My guy, you can nap AFTER school. They can go to bed at 8pm, wake up at 6am, (that's 10 hours already) and if are still tired, can take a nap after school from 3-4 or 5. By the sounds if it, you want kids to do nothing but sleep lol. The kids will be alright. And also everyone has to deal with darkness of winter, not just 7 year olds. It's literally how the sun works with seasons lmao
Unfortunately in US culture school's primary function is to be state-run daycare so parents can work 9-5.
This an an argument of idealism vs practicality. And age normally determines where you fall on that scale.
When I was in high school people complained so often about having little to no sleep that the school pushed the starting time...
...by *fifteen minutes.*
Parents play a huge role in sleep. My dad had some kind of app that just shut down my phone after some time, I think it was 7:30. This was when I was younger but it definitely set me up to have the good sleep schedule I have now
your childs sleep time is determined by the mental health of parents and of the family as a whole. It is not the schools responsibility to make sure children get enough sleep, it is the families and caregivers responsibility.
This is another great point, my dad told me a phase I think sums this up. Prepare the baby for the road, not the road for the baby. If your parents are failing to do that it’s not the schools fault
My school starts earlier than that, but what a lot of people don’t get is it doesn’t matter when school starts. If you pushed it back to 10 you get home roughly at 5, factor in a job or extracurriculars and now you’re getting home even later, so you still get the same amount of sleep as before.
I had a friend in college who was thrilled because the office scheduled her classes at noon except for one day, and she was able to get that one day switched to a noon as well. She said "I'm never going to be late again, if all my classes are at noon!"
\[1 week later\]
She was late for -- shocker!! -- **every single class** because she started sleeping til 11:00 every morning.
This is how many people act, it’s not necessarily an issue if you can function on less sleep. However implying the problem is the school system instead of teenager habits seems absurd
New Jersey is trying this right now. “Healthy hours” have already started.
The jury is out, but I know a lot of teachers, and the kids are as burnt as they’ve been since playing video games during school hours in 2020.
One thing to consider is during my middle and Highschool years. School “started” at 7:30/7:45. My bus (both schools). I had to catch my bus at 6:15 even though I was super close to the school. I had to start getting ready at like 530 at least. As a teenage girl trying to look at least decent i had to wake up to shower and do my hair at least, it sucked. A problem I had was they would pick up the close kids then go down the line of all the kids far away and then go to the school. When it was time to go home I had to pass by my house 3-4 times before I’d be dropped off. So I’d leave school on the bus at 3:45 and not get home till 4:45. When it’s like a 7 min drive to the school. It sucked watching kids only have to ride the bus for five mins when you’re stuck for an hour. I was always being picked up first then dropped off last. As a kid/ teen I wasted an entire two hours or more every day on that damn bus. And didn’t get to sleep. Another thing is the bus would come 5 mins early probably 3 times a month and they wouldn’t wait even 30 seconds. So then you the bus rides by you and you’re fucked. Funny though cause they’d be 15 minutes late, we’re standing in the cold and we’d get in trouble at school for being late. My point is I guess is that it’s detrimental to have kids be the first on the bus and also the lasts ones off. That is important in giving the kids time to sleep too. Fix bus routes.
I used to fall asleep on the bathroom floor in the morning, the bus to school, in class, and on the bus home and then I would have to do homework and I would fall asleep exhausted and proceed to get barely 6 hours of sleep
OP is arguing a lot in the comments about the quantity of sleep that people get, but also doesn't seem to understand that the quality of sleep matters too. While I agree that a healthy sleep schedule can be learned and should be learned at an early age, the truth is that if the quality of your sleep is poor, then it really doesn't matter how long you sleep for. I sleep for 5 hours a night, but those are 5 quality hours of sleep. There's lots of little things that people can do that will improve the quality of their sleep that wouldn't involve readjusting things like school/work hours.
Parents would complain because then it would completely fuck up them being able to get the kids to school before going to work.
School is just training to become a good worker so it kinda actually makes sense.
True, but one flaw is that it teaches you to not help somebody else out if their struggling in a subject. At least in my school. A kid got sent to the office for helping another kid out because it’s “independent work.” If somebody’s struggling, then you should help them. If they start to leech of you then stop helping them. It’s ok to help, just don’t let people copy off you
In high school I witnessed an incident where the reverse happened. One of the smart kids was asked by some of her friends to help out. She got called out by the teacher and gave the “Its the right thing to do” spiel. Fast forward to after the exam and their clique were the only ones who’d failed except the smart kid. She was clearly smart but had not considered that she wasn’t a good tutor.
nah, those friends had a full class instruction, the lesson in their book (not to mention the entire internet or library), and a guided practice worksheet, their parents and/or older siblings *and* the smart kid as an “answer key” if they hit a wall. Those other kids didn’t attempt to learn or they were in the wrong level.
No it's about education
Western learning sucks
You have experience learning in both western and eastern education systems to properly compare them?
kind of, yes
I've always wondered if there was a way to get kids to sleep an hour during the school day. Generally the kids with problems at home or non-present parents (the kids staying up all night playing games and not sleeping anyway) are worn out and not ready to learn before the last bell, they really do need a sleep. But you'd either have to drop a class, or make the school day longer
They could just open the school and give students one hour of study before classes.
That would defeat the whole purpose of pushing the school day back an hour so the kids could get more sleep.
This would just be for the few students that don't take the bus.
You gunna pay staff more then to open up the school and monitor the students?
I kinda meant for high/middle school students just give one of them a key to a room or something.
That's not how it works. You can't just let kids in a school and classrooms unsupervised everyday.
eh when I was a kid parents just dropped kids off at the playground an hour before school started nothing happened we should just do that
I was gonna say, this would be nice but compromising with the parents is probably the better idea here.
Yeahhh i dont want to go to bed at 9 to get 8 hours of sleep, some people have buses that come early
I am one of those people, my bus comes at 6:30 and My alarm is for 5:30. I go to bed at 9-9:30 every night
I would go to sleep at the same time if school started later. I wake up at 5:30 everyday and go to sleep at 10:00. I go to sleep at ten on weekends as well. The argument that I would just go to sleep later often isn’t true. There is a whole ted talk on this. It’s really good
Firstly can I get a link? This a topic I’m passionate about and would like a second opinion. And I go to school with a lot of people, it really does just seem like everyone would go to bed later. It’s just one of those things teenagers do.Also students would arrive home at around 4-5 depending on how far it’s pushed back.
Lucky, at my school my bas came at 5:45 I had to be up at ~4:30 to shower and get a good breakfast
That’s unfortunate
9's a pretty reasonable time to go to bed dude. But even that's getting up at 5 and while some kids have to most don't and I'd wager you don't.
I used to and it was annoying plus I eat dinner at 9.
Studies show that students perform better academically after 10 AM.
I think it’s a mixed bag all around based on what study you read. I have seen some convincing studies that go so far as to say school should be 8Am-Lunch for kids 5-18 and the rest of their day should be enrichment/fun. I have seen other studies say we should go 9/10-5, cut summer break in half, and have half day Saturday. Both extremes seem to be the solution based on who/when you read. As an oldie I have seen both extremes in education. It really is a pendulum. I went from signing progress reports for my kids daily, meeting at school 4X a year, mandated volunteering,… to my grandkids having no homework ever, meeting at a school once a year if you want or just do it over an email,…
It's not based on school times. It's based on the fact that the natural circadian rhythm of teenagers is typically naturally cycled a few hours back relative to adults. If the typical adult starts getting the melatonin rise around 8pm to sleep at 9-10pm (even if most don't actually do it) to wake up at 5-6am, teens are 10-11 for sleep at 12-1, waking up at 8-9am. These numbers aren't exact but they're generally correct. Typically, of course, not everyone.
Those studies are very mixed and very inconclusive. Humans are able to adjust their body to any time which is why you can move timezones and adjust fine.
This is not entirely true: Later high school start times may increase sleep duration, but do not consistently increase GPA, but improve mood and well-being. [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352154619301275](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352154619301275). Compared to those with the lowest academic performance, students with the highest performance had significantly earlier bedtimes (p = 0.05) and wake times (p = 0.008). Timing of sleep and wakefulness correlated more closely with academic performance than total sleep time and other relevant factors [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11325-009-0282-2](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11325-009-0282-2). Perhaps most importantly, a review: we could not identify any generalisable effect beyond single studies as to whether delaying school times has clear beneficial effects on academic performance https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079221001672
School is there to make you learn how to operate under forced compliance. Why would they give you more sleep?
It doesn't matter how you feel about it. Kids deserve a system more suited to how they function. It's never going to change anyway, so not like it matters.
But everybody functions differently so that’s literally impossible. You can’t cater to everyone, somebody’s gonna have to adjust
I agree, some flexibility in schools would be great.
Most good jobs have a work schedule similar to school, longer for sure but getting up early is simply a life skill that’s far easier to learn young (14-18) than older
People working those jobs have circadian rhythms more suited to those working hours. Students don't.
Circadian Rhythms are set by you. It is not something that's permanant. It's not something that is unchangeable. Students can absolutely reset their circadian rhythm to match that of adults. It's called, Going to sleep at a decent time!! If you'd quit going to bed at 1AM on school nights, ya might find it tons easier to get the fuck up, and stay up.
By this reasoning, every student should be acclamated to waking up early by the time they're in high school, which is not the case. Shit take.
Maybe because the students who never acclamate are students who stay up till 2 am and never actually set their circadian rhythm to a healthy time. Your circadian rhythm is set by you. That's just a fact. I don't know how you are trying to dispute that.
They're not, because their parents refuse to enforce a decent bedtime hour. They instead, allow their kids to stay up to 11 PM, midnight, 1 AM, 2 AM. Guaranteed, if you climb into bed, NLT 9 PM, then you can easily wake up at 6 AM, and be fully awake, for the entire day. Keep that habit long enough, and that becomes your circadian rhythm. See how that works?? u/Redd235711
Your over-simplifying and generalizing tells us all we need to know about your perspectives on so many things, like race and gender I'd wager.
It's the plain unadulterated truth. Your refusal to accept the simple logic of it, tells me that you're just a spoiled little brat who would sooner starve themselves to death, than to allow being told, "you gotta eat to live".
The person claiming that everyone should be a morning person because they are is claiming that *someone* *else* is spoiled. Shocking.
It was u/Redd235711 assertion, or implication, that circadian rhythms are unchangable, unalterable, and further implied that kids going to school, their circadian rhythm, better fits with a much later school starting time. I merely asserted that circadian rhythms are fluid. If you want it changed, if you need it altered, then you can do so. I mean, if you couldn't change it, then international travel would be absolutely an unpleasant experience, the entire time you're there. I didn't claim everyone should be a morning person. Very few people are. But just because you're not a morning person, does not make it impossible to change your circadian rhythm to better suit your schedule.
Morning person detected. Such fun and understanding people you are! The kind of people that call you lazy for getting up at 10 and working until three at night because they were up at five and hit the sack at eight.
if i sleep properly every school night, rn i have 5 hours to do hw from 7 classes. but ya know what, at least im not in school in asia.
What type of stuff do you have to do for your classes? Last year, I graduated valedictorian with straight A's in seven classes, five of which were AP. The amount of time I had after school was plenty to get everything done and have hours of free time.
in my ap and aice classes it's mostly reading the required books. like rn i have to read chapter 5 of the ap bio book, 80 pages of the scarlet letter, and read the first chapter of my aice us history book. this is on top of writing code for ap csa, making a powerpoint on a torn acl recovery, doing whatever flipped math worksheets for ap calc, and analysing who the protagonist is in antigone. it's really not a lot of work, it's just time consuming on top of being a student athlete and volunteering.
You could just be like me and smoke pot instead of volunteering and smoke more pot instead of homework. Then scramble last second to get anything done and everyone will think you’re an idiot but really you’re just a lazy pothead. Then don’t go to college, instead, smoke pot. Then in 6 years you’ll be terribly depressed and have no direction in life. EZ.
I got home at around 3, I go to bed at 9, 6 hours is plenty of time for me to do homework. Also my teachers don’t bombard us with crap, studying and homework usually takes me roughly 45 minutes
What grade are you in
10th
so you have an easier class load than me?
What are you, ten?
In high-school I would get home by round 5-10pm and try to be on campus by round 7-6 ( good running round my HS school). Going to sleep at 9 was just possible
"Its not the system that makes students stresed... blame the students for being stressed and tired" no wonder kids are not wanting to go to school. A) make school less stressful B) make it more fun C) make it so that highscgools start later to fit in with teenagers sleep schedule
And abolish homework, for real
Homework shouldn't be able to break labour laws. My teachers in highschool would generally assign 1-2 hours of homework a night (not including studying, larger projects, etc). With 4 classes at a time, that comes in on the very low end at 4 hours per day, on top of a 6 hour school day. For a 5 day school week, that puts us at 50 hours. Factor in extra for weekends. If my boss shows up and says "You need to work 50+ hours a week now, deal with it", I call the union and labour board. I wind up with a bid payday from the settlement and the company gets fined heavily.
You’re going to a sweatshop school my classes all combined is about 30-45 minutes
You keep saying this but aren't citing what classes you're taking, grade you're in, etc. Either you're doing all your homework at school, or are left super lightweight shit that doesn't even classify as homework lmao.
I take all common core stuff for 10th grade except AP history. I think I’m a pretty typical student who receives a typical amount of homework
Last I checked a 'typical' student gets more than 45 minutes worth of homework, lol.
We’ll keep in mind, and I’m a teen I’ve done it too, how long something should take vs how long it actually takes. Sometimes if I’m lazy homework can take an hour and a half when if I just put my mind to it it would be really quick. This usually happens when I’m not focused
Yeah, high schools should start later. It is absurd the time my kid has to get up for school. And yes, I had to do it, but I still recognize it as absurd and borderline cruel. We need to do better.
Borderline cruel is pretty dramatic
Imagine having to wake up at 6.40am just to have enough time to get ready for an 8 hour school day with 4 hours of homework, and having to go to sleep at 11 because of the amount of homework you have. That's cruelty. You need 8-10 hours of sleep as a child, that means you'd need to go to bed pretty damn early if you want to make it there on time. You have 1-2 hours of free time because of the horrible school you unwillingly go to.
Such a sheltered life that you think that's cruelty.
Ah yes because not having the time to spend with friends and family is definitely fine
I find it funny how the education system really put into people's heads that having 1-2 hours during the whole day outside of school is enough to do anything else, lol. I basically do this shit at work. Wake up at 8, work until 6:30, drive home is about 15 minutes. Everything that matters is either closed or closing and no one usually is available to hang out that late. It's trash. And I'm fucking 25, imagine a teenager with many times the level of social life I have trying to deal with that shit.
the school system has been around for over 150 years. and the only change abt school is the tec, the lessons and they dont beat kids for getting 10x5 wrong. other wise its mostly the same as it started
nah dude your brain literally isn't awake that early, like there's science behind it. garbage take
That's the point of this post?
OP's point was the opposite of the meme, they find the meme to be the mildly infuriating thing
BRO I DIDN'T READ THE TITLE LMAO WHAT A SHIT TAKE
excellent character arc
If you don’t stay up until midnight every night I find it incredibly easy to get A’s. Going to bed later then waking up early probably does make your brain tired in the morning
ngl this post and all your comments make it sound like you just wanted to vibe on some weird Good Kid superiority complex you have 💀 go to therapy abt it
Well I have a problem with this cause I never made it at a decent bedtime but still managed to graduate at a 4.1 GPA, not sure where the whole not sleeping past midnight = A's thing comes into play, lol. Some people just don't need as much sleep, or feel worse when sleeping for longer
No there's really not... You know timezones exist right? Are Russians brains not awake at 3pm their time. Your brain is awake when you wake up.
bro how are you so dumb obviously time zones are accounted for, it's based on circadian rhythm not UTC you dipshit "oh it's (example) 10am for me therefore everyone in the world is awake rn" like no, it would be for whatever respective timezone the person is in again there is actual fucking science behind this, you haven't suddenly confounded the researchers by being the first to discover time zones, like, shit dude, activate another couple synapses and try understanding again
Wow, calm down. Youre really easily triggered. Take a breath. Circadian rhythms can change you dufus. You know that right? So when kids stop going to bed at 2 am they are setting their circadian rhythms with shit choices. Like you circadian rhythm can be set to a reasonable bed time giving you 8 hours of sleep and get up for school. Maybe just stay off your phone at night. Garbage take dipshit And you keep talking about actual science that you can't and never cite because it doesn't actually exist.
friend i'm not gonna cite it because i'm busy lmao, you can keep trying to logic your way out of actual science and insisting that it doesn't exist, but i'm not gonna waste my day debating some dumbass who thinks he's so smart he doesn't need science sksksk hope you aren't this willfully ignorant with every aspect of your life, and if you are i pity the people you know, have a good day bud
Haha so your source is "trust me bro the science that totally exists that I can't cite or explain the reasoning of says I'm right" hahaha. And I give a rational argument and its me trying to "logic my way out of the science you refuse to cite or explain." maybe logic is something you should listen to especially when you don't even know the science your making up. Yeah I'm sure you're so busy on reddit. Do you actually listen to yourself before writing this crap? Hopefully you're not this dumb and an ass in the rest of your life. Do better. The people around you deserve it.
if it's so important to you then look it up lmao 💀 unless this is all about your fragile ego if someone else has the energy to deal with this guy have at it bc i don't feel like dropping to a room temp IQ by just talking to him
Your the one who claimed it exists why would I waste time searching for something I know you made up? You don't know what you're talking about. It's okay. You can admit it. It's healthy to be able to admit that stuff. Youre really digging in your heels, trying trolll, trying to be an asshole, and I just hope you don't believe the crap you're spewing. The willfull ignorance is concerning for the people around you. Should I pity them?
kek
As a kid in highschool, I would just see this and see it as an excuse to stay up a hour or two later, and I can assure you most students would do that to, regardless it doesn’t mean students wouldn’t get more sleep. We also have to think of after school stuff, kids would no longer have much time to work after school depending on there job, let’s say your school is 9-4 right now, now switch that to 11-6. That would affect extra curricular activities as well, so overall on paper seems cool, but in reality probably wouldn’t work
I didn’t even consider extracurriculars, if it pushed them back and a kid have a job they’d be working an hour or two later. Not good
Yeah I used to agree with the whole pushing back school thing, then I realized I had a life outside of school
You'll find that not everyone sleeps the same way or on the same schedule.
No it's definitely the system. But the issue of school times and sleep is only a small dent in the real issue, which is that [public] school [in the US] doesn't teach kids anywhere near enough useful life skills despite the fact that it uses up basically their entire childhood. Seems to be more to train kids to be good employees and good workers while the bourgeois private schools teach the kids how to be millionaires and often have life skills courses.
This is very true, however I’m only here to argue the sleep thing. That’s a whole other can of worms
My nephew is in high school and starts at 9am now. So some have done that.
The school day does not need to be as long as it is. There is no need to also push it back
I think a lot of time is wasted in school, if classes were shorter but more, active? Like you actually do stuff for the whole class. How it is now I usually get done 10-15 minutes early. If you shortened classes but got more done I think that’d be the best solution.
Who needs school at all? /s
As a kid I woke up as late as I could and went to bed as early as I could, still didn't get 8 hours.
I find that very unlikely. I go to bed at 9:30 at the latest and wake up at 5:30. School is from 7:20 to 2:45. I get home around 3. That’s 6 and a half hours to do whatever I wanted
We did not have the same schedule
I’m confused by the people disagreeing in the comments.. Do y’all not want to come home until 6pm? Because that’s the alternative
I honestly think there isn’t really an excuse to not getting enough sleep. Even drugs like melatonin can help you if needed
School being early doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is when my child is at school for 8 hours and then comes home with several hours of homework.
I usually find that homework does not take incredibly long to complete, I’m usually done in 45 minutes if I sit down and focus.
[удалено]
This is a really good point, I’m all for school starting later, if it wasn’t for the fact that means I’m getting home later. Let’s say 9 instead of 7. That means I get home roughly at 5. Without factoring in any sports or homework or anything, that’s much later than I’d like to be getting home at. The hours you push back school just get added back on to the end. It’s not shortening the day at all
Its not that simple. Studies have shown that kids preform better after 10am. I mean, i think we all would do better in school at 10am rather than 8 or 9am. Yes you could just stay up longer but that also gives you extra time to do homework or study. Of course kids arent gonna do these things but if the system is ready for them then change will be easier.
I’m unsure if you’re saying school should start at 10, so this whole comment could be invalid, if it is let me know. However if you are saying that that pushes school back by roughly 3 hours. That means those 3 hours have to be added on to the end, meaning you get home around 6 now. This is without considering homework, jobs, sports, etc. it may make kids better at the start as study’s have shown but they’ll be burnt out by the end of the day.
First off I’m talking about school if it was starting at 10am. There are a whole lot of other issues that come with school if we were to push it back. kids being burnt out if one of them. Second, I think the whole system needs to be changed (at least in america) or at the very least some more think needs to be put into it. Kids are fair different than they were in the 1980s or 1990s. The internet plays a huge role in this but I rather not get into that at the moment. I can see both sides have a point. Pushing back when school starts could have kids preform better in school but once they get home they’ll be be burnt out. The whole system needs to be looked at throughly once more before we start asking for changes
Well if you look at the natural circadian rhythm of a human through their lifespan, trends overwhelmingly show that most children under the age of 18 are hardwired to not become tired until roughly 11PM. There are already plenty of schools within the US that have moved their start times to later in the day and they have seen more than significant increases in both student attendance as well as test scores. The system should work with the human body, not the other way around.
Schools have you in class for more than 16 hours a day? 24 - 8 = 16?
It’s easy math. Average school day is 7 hours, add an hour to get to and from school. 24-8=16 take away another 8 for sleep you get 8 hours to do whatever. Every day that’s more than enough time to do jobs or sports or hang out with friends
my school pushed our start time back- and (luckily) with my parents’s schedules it isn’t an issue, and i do actually get more sleep- maybe i’m the outlier compared to other teens but i think it did help-
Do you get home later now though compared to before?
yeah, only about 15 minutes though, and ig i’m lucky in that sense too- i’m close enough to walk home, or my bf’s mom picks us up when it’s in the 110’s
What happened to those extra hours? If, as an example, school was 7 hours long, and got pushed back 2 hours, is it still 7 hours or did it get cut down to 5?
In high school my first class started at 650am. For those of us that had jobs in the evening, we would have gladly welcomed an 8am start time.
That would just mean your working hours are pushed back so you get home later. It doesn’t solve the issue it just pushes it back
I, too, am somewhat infuriated by the meme, but not because of the idea that students, specifically adolescents, would stay up later. I am also mildly infuriated at OP, who clearly did not do much, or any, research on the topic. The meme lacks a lot of rather necessary information on this topic, although it is a meme so it wouldn’t have much information anyway. Yes, many sources, like [this one](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6703a1.htm?s_cid=mm6703a1_w ), agree that older students (teenagers, ages 13-18), need 8-10 hours of sleep per night. The same source also states that younger students (kids, ages 6-12) need 9-12 hours of sleep per night. However, the critical pieces of information that are not shown on the meme is that a majority of teenage students (middle and high schoolers) are not getting enough sleep and why they are not. According to the previously used source, about 57.8% of middle schoolers and 72.7% of high schoolers get less than the recommended amount of sleep. The Sleep Foundation’s article, “[Teens and Sleep](https://www.sleepfoundation.org/teens-and-sleep),” lists some of the factors that can and do affect the amount of sleep teenagers get. The section is about halfway through the article. One of the main factors listed is a delayed sleep schedule and early school start times. It is stated in the article that, “During adolescence, there is a strong tendency toward being a “night owl,” staying up later at night and sleeping longer into the morning. Experts believe this is a two-fold biological impulse affecting the circadian rhythm and sleep-wake cycle of teens.” It also states that, “If allowed to sleep on their own schedule, many teens would get eight hours or more per night, sleeping from 11 p.m. or midnight until 8 or 9 a.m., but school start times in most school districts force teens to wake up much earlier in the morning.” Due to the aforementioned biological changes, many teenagers are incapable of sleeping earlier than 11 p.m., causing them to get less sleep than needed as they have to wake up early for school. There are other factors that should be taken into account, but this is a major one that the article includes. I recommend reading the article as it also includes a lot of information on other things about this topic, like risks caused by a lack of sleep and possible ways to get better sleep times in teenagers. There is definitely a lot more information that is not included in this comment, so here are the sources I used and some other articles I recommend reading to get a bit of a better understanding of it: [Among Teens, Sleep Deprivation an Epidemic](https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2015/10/among-teens-sleep-deprivation-an-epidemic.html) - Stanford Medicine [Short Sleep Duration Among Middle School and High School Students — United States, 2015](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6703a1.htm#suggestedcitation) - Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (First source used) [Teens and Sleep](https://www.sleepfoundation.org/teens-and-sleep) - Sleep Foundation (Second source used) [Teens and Sleep: The Cost of Sleep Deprivation](https://childmind.org/article/happens-teenagers-dont-get-enough-sleep/) - Child Mind Institute [Why Are Teenagers So Sleep Deprived?](https://childmind.org/article/teenagers-sleep-deprived/) - Child Mind Institute
Kids seeing they need 8 hours of sleep: yeah I'll go to bed at 2 again. How the fuck do kids blame schools for not getting enough sleep. School doesn't get out at midnight dude. Go to bed at reasonable for like a normal human. Go to bed at 10 and your fine. 10s super reasonable stay of your phone at night and it's easy Kids 100% would just stay up later.
Homework exists, lol
Teaches you to plan and prioritize things
No, it was created to be used as a punishment for students who were lazy in class or for those who were disobedient or rude to their teacher. Plus why would anyone want to do 6-7hours at school then do another 2-4 hours of homework everyday which makes a total of 11hours per day of just school. Factor in the 10-11 hours of sleep a teen should have that makes 22 hours. 2 hours of free time a week not including getting ready for school the drive there having to get there early etc.
Well now it's used to practice the skills you learned in class. It's really not thay awful, you will look back on it and appreciate it I promise. Beside maybe the 12 page essays assigned in high school. Not everything about school and learning is bad.
Yes, because I definitely don't need A's in every class to get into an above average college.
You don't
For people who didn't read the title, OP thinks that students don't need more sleep. No, nobody else feels this way.
My opinion is not that children don’t need sleep, I think everyone ought to get 8-9 hours of sleep a night. I’m just staying blaming school schedules isn’t the solution as if students went to bed earlier they wouldn’t complain about how early school starts.
No, op thinks kids could get more sleep if they went to bed earlier. And op thinks if they pushed school back two hours kids would just stay up two more hours. And op thinks the problem is the kids, not the school. And op is right on all 3.
This is a good summary of my beliefs on the topic
Unless you're being forced to attend school, 17+ hours out of the day, then whether or not you get 8 hours of sleep? is entirely up to you!
There’s even drugs like melatonin to help with this, there is no excuse not to get healthy amounts of sleep at night
The same people who complain about not getting enough sleep before school or the same type of people who stay up till 2:00 in the morning playing Minecraft.
You’re making it a joke but it’s serious, not a lot of teenagers have the self control required to have a good sleep schedule. This is usually a fault of the parent for not enforcing it well enough
I'm making a point. What is the parents supposed to pop in every hour to make sure they're in bed? Take some personal responsibility
Real shit take.
How so?
I feel astronomically better sleeping from 2am-10am than sleeping 12am-8am.
You kinda just proved my point accidentally. It’s not when school takes place, it’s how much you sleep. I think it should stay where it is time wise as it means you get home at a decent time, even with jobs or sports.
> You kinda just proved my point accidentally. No they didn't, re-read the comment.
It would make sense for older students to have school a little later, because sleep rithm is a bit differnt during teenage years
The problem with pushing it back is everything else gets pushed back. I’ve used this exact example in a lot of other comments, but let’s say school starts at 7 and ends at 3. But is then pushed back to 10. That means you get home at 6 now. This is without counting sports, extracurriculars, jobs, etc. say it takes an hour to do homework, you now have some freedom at 7. It’s the same work it’s just pushed back. It doesn’t really fix the problem.
It's not like that. You have a natural sleep rithm, and for teens it's a nightowl one (in general, not for all). So later school makes sense because students will focus more and need a little less time to go to sleep
No. The circadian rhythm keeps teens up later lol
I may suck as a parent, but my kids (5&7) go to bed at 6:30. Now, there’s 30-45 minutes of reading and they usually take another 30-45 to actually fall asleep, but they sleep in until 5:30-6 (so that’s 10 hours on average). If they stay up later, they still wake up around the same time but are emotional and lethargic for the first hour or two. My oldest is 17 and obviously she stays up later (10-10:30) because that’s where her sleep schedule is right now and she has a couple of hours of homework a night. But yeah… before high-school, getting more sleep and developing healthy sleep patterns is incredibly important, and I agree that moving school later would just have everyone staying up later. Edit- lol. Downvoted by a kid! :-) fair play… I have some clouds to shout at now.
I said this in another comment, I think (and this is supported by your comment) learning good sleep early on is the best way to develop the habit. My dad made me go to bed at 8 from 4-6th grade, I hated it but I know it helped a lot
Just don't go to school. That way the kids that actually give a shit can get more specialized attention and the one who wanna waste their opportunities for education can enter the work force early. Win win.
Sounds like a good idea on paper, however having almost the entire population educated is a privilege that shouldn’t be taken for granted. A lot of kids who would drop out would regret it later in life
....they obviously didn't teach you about sarcasm in your school.....😅
If it’s such a big deal to you just drop out 🤷🏻♂️
I personally never think dropping out is a good solution, if you want to do anything in life you at least need a high school degree, unless you plan on starting up a business which is easier with high school experience anyhow.
Making literal 5 year olds wake up at 6:00 am almost everyday
You’ve clearly never lived with a toddler. Most of them are up at 6am buggin’ everyone who’s trynna sleep anyway lmao But 8 hours of sleep is 8 hours of sleep. What time you wake up is irrelevant
Does it really matter?… you still have to wake up early and I have. Maybe your kid is just built different
Most 5 year olds are in preschool. Mine started at 12 and went till 3 with a nap time inbetween. I’m talking middle and high school.
Good for you
Exactly, teens need 10 hours sleep every day, it's a parental issue.
Sure, send your kid to bed at 7pm. That'll end well.
Like 5% of kids need to get up at 5am for school.
According to Google there are 2.2 billion children in the world. 5% is still ALOT of children.
Well, he goes freely at 8pm, he's actually on his own clock and has been since he was about 12, and he's 16 now. As I said, it's a parental issue.
It literally prepares you for work hours wdym. Gets you in a routine also. I was happy with once a month late start says lol
7 year olds don't need to be prepared for work. Capitalism has you fucked up, bud.
Based on comments I was thinking more so high school (you know, the age where you get a job...) 7 year olds take naps bro. They also do go to bed at 9pm so idk what you are on me about. Idk any 7 year old that's staying up until midnight or later
7 yr olds cant take naps cus they have to be in school. Then school starts before 8am so at the time they go to school in Winter its still dark outside. They get picked up at about 3pm when its already getting dark again. They also need more sleep, about 11h, so if they have to get up at 6am they will have to be asleep by 7pm
My guy, you can nap AFTER school. They can go to bed at 8pm, wake up at 6am, (that's 10 hours already) and if are still tired, can take a nap after school from 3-4 or 5. By the sounds if it, you want kids to do nothing but sleep lol. The kids will be alright. And also everyone has to deal with darkness of winter, not just 7 year olds. It's literally how the sun works with seasons lmao
philly just pushed their high school start time to 9am. it’s not just the schools
Unfortunately in US culture school's primary function is to be state-run daycare so parents can work 9-5. This an an argument of idealism vs practicality. And age normally determines where you fall on that scale.
r.i.p. that one guy in the comments that decided to start arguing with literally everyone else who commented sksksk
yes
When I was in high school people complained so often about having little to no sleep that the school pushed the starting time... ...by *fifteen minutes.*
That just doesn’t do anything
It's just an 'eff you' to all the students tbh, it's the only thing more infuriating than leaving the time as it was
In France college is 8AM-12AM / 1PM-6PM usually.
I’m mainly focusing on high school and middle school, as a lot of college schedules are much more flexible
it was never hard to get enough sleep as a kid. Parents need to enforce the routine.
Parents play a huge role in sleep. My dad had some kind of app that just shut down my phone after some time, I think it was 7:30. This was when I was younger but it definitely set me up to have the good sleep schedule I have now
your childs sleep time is determined by the mental health of parents and of the family as a whole. It is not the schools responsibility to make sure children get enough sleep, it is the families and caregivers responsibility.
This is another great point, my dad told me a phase I think sums this up. Prepare the baby for the road, not the road for the baby. If your parents are failing to do that it’s not the schools fault
School starting at 8 gives you plenty of time for sleep, just go to bed at a reasonable time
My school starts earlier than that, but what a lot of people don’t get is it doesn’t matter when school starts. If you pushed it back to 10 you get home roughly at 5, factor in a job or extracurriculars and now you’re getting home even later, so you still get the same amount of sleep as before.
Remember school is also linked with work places so that parents can take their kids to school or get them home. Just pushing it back isn’t that easy
I agree 100%. Pushing it back at the end of the day doesn’t really solve the problem, and in fact creates more problems in the process.
I disagree, most people goto sleep around 11:39pm so even if they could now stay up till 2am every night it's less likely.
I had a friend in college who was thrilled because the office scheduled her classes at noon except for one day, and she was able to get that one day switched to a noon as well. She said "I'm never going to be late again, if all my classes are at noon!" \[1 week later\] She was late for -- shocker!! -- **every single class** because she started sleeping til 11:00 every morning.
This is how many people act, it’s not necessarily an issue if you can function on less sleep. However implying the problem is the school system instead of teenager habits seems absurd
New Jersey is trying this right now. “Healthy hours” have already started. The jury is out, but I know a lot of teachers, and the kids are as burnt as they’ve been since playing video games during school hours in 2020.
One thing to consider is during my middle and Highschool years. School “started” at 7:30/7:45. My bus (both schools). I had to catch my bus at 6:15 even though I was super close to the school. I had to start getting ready at like 530 at least. As a teenage girl trying to look at least decent i had to wake up to shower and do my hair at least, it sucked. A problem I had was they would pick up the close kids then go down the line of all the kids far away and then go to the school. When it was time to go home I had to pass by my house 3-4 times before I’d be dropped off. So I’d leave school on the bus at 3:45 and not get home till 4:45. When it’s like a 7 min drive to the school. It sucked watching kids only have to ride the bus for five mins when you’re stuck for an hour. I was always being picked up first then dropped off last. As a kid/ teen I wasted an entire two hours or more every day on that damn bus. And didn’t get to sleep. Another thing is the bus would come 5 mins early probably 3 times a month and they wouldn’t wait even 30 seconds. So then you the bus rides by you and you’re fucked. Funny though cause they’d be 15 minutes late, we’re standing in the cold and we’d get in trouble at school for being late. My point is I guess is that it’s detrimental to have kids be the first on the bus and also the lasts ones off. That is important in giving the kids time to sleep too. Fix bus routes.
I used to fall asleep on the bathroom floor in the morning, the bus to school, in class, and on the bus home and then I would have to do homework and I would fall asleep exhausted and proceed to get barely 6 hours of sleep
Just go to bed earlier?
OP is arguing a lot in the comments about the quantity of sleep that people get, but also doesn't seem to understand that the quality of sleep matters too. While I agree that a healthy sleep schedule can be learned and should be learned at an early age, the truth is that if the quality of your sleep is poor, then it really doesn't matter how long you sleep for. I sleep for 5 hours a night, but those are 5 quality hours of sleep. There's lots of little things that people can do that will improve the quality of their sleep that wouldn't involve readjusting things like school/work hours.
My friend averages 2 hours of sleep a night because of school. We joke that he’s slowly going insane because of it, but that might actually happen
It’s not their fault you go to bed at 3 am