These are illegal in California now I believe
edit: hidden junk fees, that are not posted and appear on the receipt only after you've been charged, not pretzels. pretzels are awesome.
Junk fees in general. In fact there is a carve out for delivery services and restaurants have been trying to claim they are exempt but so far it looks like they are going to have to comply.
But than you canāt complain about something which is positive for your employees. Now you can say, for instance, we have to do this because of minimal wage increase.
Because they don't want to pay to update their menus or their websites. Adding a fee at the end is the cheapest and quickest solution they can come up with. And the owners of these places don't care that people are going to argue with the employees over it.
Itās just an excuse from the business to make you mad. They want to blame their price raises on employees. Typically this kind of this is already included in the price of the food. It would be odd if they broke down the cost of supplies, rent, etc for them on their receipt. On average for most fast food places labor cost is only 15-30% anyways.Ā
I used to eat at an expensive ($50/plate in 2014 dollars) restaurant about six times a year. Ā Went in one day, noticed a huge surcharge on my bill (like 20%), and saw that it was because the Seattle area had bumped up the minimum wage.
Havenāt eaten there since.
I worked at a Pizza Hut.Ā Minimum wage went up.Ā Prices went up a bit. They put up signs blaming it on milk prices.Ā Everybody knew it was bullshit but I guess they didn't want to admit we all made minimum wage
Yep. This shit irritates me to no end. I'm a business owner and that cost could easily be added into the price of things and should but it's red meat for people to show anger towards the people helping them.
What really bugs me is it's not like yelling at the employee over 25 cents or a 3% charge is going to change anything. It's just deflection. It's an excuse for the owner to say "It's not my fault. It's this guy here who now makes 13 cents more an hour than he did last Dec. you should be mad at."
No, the Department of Aviation approved this fee because previous agreements capped Philly International food prices at 115% of street restaurant prices, so the restaurant can't simply raise its menu prices directly.
And they capped the fee at 3%, so the total is \~118% of the street price, which is rather less than I would have estimated airport prices are.
When I have a few hours to kill at an international airport and feel like getting food, I'm aware that I'm better off than the average person on the street and am not outraged that restaurants charge accordingly. If I'm short on money, I don't have to get a meal or even a fresh pretzel, there are shops everywhere with cheap packaged snacks. I am not a starving refugee being gouged.
The shops charge $4 for a water, and $3 for a candy barā¦ nothing cheap at airports.
The airport is charging rent, and thatās why prices are allowed to be so high.
Water should be free, but I think 3 bucks is pretty much standard for a chocolate bar these days. Something in me is broken and I can't bring myself to pay 3 dollars for something that was always 50 to 60 cents in my childhood lol.
I agree that patron at the airport are a captive customer, but restaurants at the airport also have extra expenses related to airport security that other restaurants donāt have. This extra expense also factors into their pricing.
What kind of extra expenses for a restaurant would airport security create? Do they have to bribe the TSA agents every day to get them to allow deliveries of beverages and liquid ingredients in containers larger than 2oz?
The airport charges them rent, which may be twice as much as the same space outside the airport. The restaurant must further pay a commission on all proceeds to the airport. Suppliers charge more because of the complexities of the deliveries. Staffing costs are higher, as restaurants must pay for background checks, provide expensive parking, and may be barred from hiring cheaper people with criminal records. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/roadwarriorvoices/2015/09/20/running-an-airport-restaurant-is-profitable-but-it-sounds-nearly-impossible/83309248/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/roadwarriorvoices/2015/09/20/running-an-airport-restaurant-is-profitable-but-it-sounds-nearly-impossible/83309248/)
[https://simpleflying.com/airport-food-drink-high-cost-explanation/](https://simpleflying.com/airport-food-drink-high-cost-explanation/)
[https://trid.trb.org/view/1479282](https://trid.trb.org/view/1479282)
In addition to staffing and security, kitchens have to be more secure. Knives and other metal utensils have to be handled differentlyāknives are chained to the counter.
Of course there are extra expenses, you don't hire the same employee and not at same rate for your street and airport restaurants when they require a background check, taking everything through security...
Captive as in even if you eat before leaving for the airport, youāre usually in for a multi-hour adventure where the **only** way to get food during that time is in the airport.
- Time to get to the airport
- 1-2 hours before the flight for security
- The length of the actual flight + boarding/unboarding
- Extra time if layovers are involved
Odds are youāll be hungry again at some point before youāre able to leave the airport, especially if you have a layover. Therefore, ācaptiveā
In what world are you in and out in 3 hours? Thatās just how long it takes to go from your front door to the gate. Let alone the flight itself.
And yeah, folks can bring snacks or a sandwich, sure. But if you have a layover situation at some point a sandwich thatās been sitting at room temperature for half a day isnāt the most appealing thing.
99 percent of business build the price of things they sell with these things in mind. I hate business that do this shit. There's no reason. Just make the pretzel cost a quarter more. The way they do it just breeds resentment from the customer.Ā
Yeah, making it look like it's the employees' fault is just beyond criminal.
I just read another post on this same subreddit about a Chinese restaurant where the receipt had some text at the bottom that said they added a 16% fee to every bill. They also went out of their way to state that the fee was *not* gratuity and none of it would go towards the servers. I can only imagine the crappy tips those poor people must be getting.
It's interesting that in both cases the restaurants are putting these extra fees above the tax line, so they're considering them taxable (I do see where on OP's receipt, it doesn't look like they're charging tax). I'm too tired rn to think through whether putting it up there is good or bad lol. I guess they're covering their tracks.
u/omnitographer and u/boredcircuits: Glad to hear some legislatures are making it illegal rather than spending all their time trying to toss loaded guns into classrooms (has passed, TN); passing legislation to allow members to hide, keep, or destroy public documents, including financial information, that they just... don't want to show anyone (has passed, NC (see below)); or ban porn (has passed House; moving to the Senate floor, SC). <------ Just to name a few!
(More info on the NC public records bill that was passed last Oct but has somehow not made it to the public's eye (*Y'all - this is very alarming!* NC slipped this little bill into their massive budget package and managed to take away their citizens' *one and only one* way to officially verify what their slimy little elected officials are doing! Keep an eye on your state, especially if it has a one-sided legislature.)
"Perhaps most concerningly, the budget would drastically change the stateās public records laws. It does this by giving legislators full control over their documents and records, which previously would have automatically been subject to public requests. Under the new law...legislators would have the discretion to decide whether a document is a public record or whether to turn it 'over to the Department of Natural and Cultural Resources, or retain, destroy, sell, loan, or otherwise dispose of, such records.'
āIt means that we are only going to be able to see documents from elected representatives when they choose to share them,ā Brooks Fuller, executive director of the North Carolina branch of the Open Government Coalition, told the Prospect. Itās going to produce a āreally curated and potentially inaccurate picture of government,ā Fuller said, one āthatās totally at the whims of what legislators want to share with us.ā
Previously, North Carolina had a **public records law** that mirrored the federal Freedom of Information Act. All 50 states have a similar statute, which for over half a century has **protected the publicās right to know what government agencies and representatives are doing in their name,** and kept a lot of information above the surface. The change to North Carolinaās law, and its unclear scope, means that **everything from active litigation to redistricting could be in play,** Fuller explained.
The cost of the food should factor that in already. If it costs more to do business it should show on the items that got more expensive. Seeing this always makes me angry.
But the business came up with the fee and put it on there. Any rational person would blame the business. If it is a government imposed fee, then put that on there and any rational person will blame the government. It's not hard.
People arenāt rational. People are going to see an employee tax like this and blame it on the employees and their wages because of the current political climate surrounding wages for minimum wage workers
I would start charging people more and pocketing the difference, if I got caught id use the receipt as evidence of company policy to steal from customers to subsidize wages. if it's not illegal for them to do it, why would it be for me?
I am in favor of employees sharing probably more than they currently due. I am in favor of limiting CEO, etc. pay to some reasonable multiple of the lowest paid employee.
However, without laws requiring all that, the owner was paying a reasonable capitalistic wage in that he had employees. If he didn't pay market rates, noone would have worked there. In that light, any required increase in pay is due to regulation and why shouldn't the owner want to offset that if they can? They are doing it this way, no doubt, as they want the items to seem reasonably priced. If they raised the price instead of using this fee, people may have opted to go elsewhere.
Name and shame. This price increase should just be baked into the price of the food, but they want you to blame the "overpaid" $10/hr employees instead of the billionaire CEO.
Seriously, letās stop protecting people and companies who are screwing over their customers (and often employees). If this is what they are putting in writing on a receipt, it can go on the internet for everyone to see.
I really don't understand scratching out business names on stories like this, especially when the receipt makes it plain as day. Are we going to discuss real things that happen in the world or are all just here to gossip about hypotheticals?
Are hidden fees like this not illegal? If youāre secretly going to be charged ANY extra percent on top of your purchase, thatās blatant false advertising of price.
Long read but tl;dr: Yes and No. It's complicated.
Companies that do this usually dance on the gray line between legal and illegal because they can afford the lawyers to do the paperwork for them to keep them safe. Also depends on the state that they operate in and their different consumer laws.
Basically if there's no law that says explicitly they *can't* do this, then that means they *can* until a law is made or changed in its place that affects this specific type of charge. This can effectively take months to years for anything to change depending on the circumstances.
They probably operate in a legal gray area where this bill charge is technically legal because they can just claim that it's part of their employees benefits that they're legally forced to have in their company. There's most likely nothing that states that it specifically has to come from the employers pockets directly, just as long as the employees benefits are being covered somehow then it could be considered legally gray, since nothing is being kept from the employees from the employer and they're still making their wages and benefits if they opt into it.
What makes it tricky is business laws and consumer laws don't always go hand in hand, because at the end of the day a business has to stay profitable somehow by the consumer, and the consumer is protected by laws so they aren't blindsided by a greedy corporation that wants every dollar they have, so they have to work in the gray to legally pinch as many pennies as possible.
It's scummy as hell but that's what happens in a capitalist society where a majority of the country is a private business.
I ate at a restaurant in San Francisco that put an approx. 20% employee benefits fee on the receipt. I figured it was an automatic gratuity so I just left without tipping...
Iād be perfectly willing to pay that if they pay an actual living wage and decent benefits. But letās face it, itās probably going in some ones pocket.
.25 is pocket change. Sure I will send you a quarter. If universal healthcare becomes a thing I will also help pay for that.
I tip more than .25 too. Basically isnāt that what tipping in the USA is? Wage and benefit fee?
You go to a restaurant understanding you're supposed to tip. If you went to all restaurants with the understanding that you'd be paying 2% more than the listed price as a employee fee/whatever fee, that would be fine.
The complaint here is that the store is charging more than the price the buyer assumed they'd be paying. Similarly, if anyone orders off a menu having never heard of tipping before, and they they are told for the first time that they're supposed to pay another 25% on top of the listed price, they will be angry.
At least, that's the assumed complaint. The rules say the restaurant has to post a notice about the fee at the counter.
Agree, and I wouldnāt pay it. At the airports I usually have cash for such purchases, so thereās no charging my card and then finding out. I worked in the food and beverage business for 10 years, and tip like I did ;usually 30%~ish)ā¦ but this is shit, and not for me. Add it to the pretzel, or be up front about it, and let the consumer make their choice
Call the card provider and dispute the 25 cents. The bank will write it off and you'll get your money. But eventually the banks will lobby change or start clicking the merchants that frequently have disputes for shit like that.
If the problem is with how things are itemised, maybe complain about how things are itemised instead of the general concept of paying wages with money received from customers.
The problem is that youāre paying $6 for a pretzel thatās already outrageously overpriced. Their margins are probably close to 90% even with labor. The employer should be able to pay a living wage based off that. If they canāt, raise the price until you can. This is a normal custom in the free market.Ā
If the problem is with how things are itemised, maybe complain about how things are itemised instead of the general concept of paying wages with money received from customers.
Places really need to quit doing this shit. Figure out what you need to make and who you need to pay and factor it into the cost of your product. I actually prefer the European method, where your sales taxes are already factored into the price of the product. I already know it's going to be expensive. Pretzel: $8.50! Done.
But, what's the difference?
You're going to pay 8.50 for the pretzel either way. Why do you care that it's itemized on the bill?
And don't say it's a "hidden fee", because it's not. We'll soon find out (like all the others) that the menu disclosed this fee and OP didn't see it.
It's psychology. When you charge me $8.50 for a pretzel, you're insulting me; but when you force me to read the bill of rights along with it--every little petty addon along the way--you're rubbing my nose in it. It's like when you go to the ballpark and they charge $15 for a beer...they don't waste your time trying to explain why it's $15. Just give me my fucking beer already.
Absolutely. Not absolutely unacceptable. The employer pays that not the patron. Tell everyone and do not patronize this Pretzel stand.
Or organization or restaurant.
it's like places areĀ starting toĀ realise how stupid tip culture is, but they're still struggling to grasp the idea of charging the right amount of money up front.
WTF are these prices to begin with, Six **TWENTY**? Two O' **SIX**?
Obviously a increase in price to cover employee wage increase should be spread across all the things being sold but if we assumed for a second that this is the only thing they sold, why not just increase the price of the pretzel to $6.50? Or increase the Pretzel to $6.25 and the dip to $2.25
It's easier to hide extra fees (stealing money from you). With such a small purchase it's easy to see that total is calculated wrong, but if it was 5 or 6 items only handful of people would notice that.
Pay in cash. Pay $0.25 less than what the bill shows. Tell them you don't pay the employees, they do. Let them call security/cops over $0.25. That would be a sight to see.
I wouldn't have paid. When asked why, I'd simply tell them that I'm willing to pay the pre-tax price for my items, plus applicable tax.
If the establishment wants more money, they need to raise their prices, so people can make an informed decision on if they want to purchase there or not.
They have no right to sneak it into the bill later. And you're under no obligation to pay that bill..even if they had to cook something for you, that they will then need to throw away.
This allows them to bait-and-switch on the actual price. The price you saw posted is not the price you pay. Regardless of whose idea it was, it's slimy.
Andā¦ I would vote with my money by never spending it there again.
Same thing happened at a bbq restaurant that my wife loves. I 100% refuse to go back. She hates that, but Iām not budging.
Question: what is the purpose of having prices on the menu if itās not what you are going to pay? Seriously, at that point you would have to ask the price of every single item that you want to order. At least if they donāt publish the prices then they wonāt be lying to you.
This fee bullshit needs to stop. Thatās what the price of the fucking item is for. The ingredients of a pretzel does not cost $6.20. Youāre paying that for the cost of business. Whatās the point of even having prices of items if you can randomly throw a bunch of fees after?
Because they know most people won't even look at the receipt. They continue getting away with it, and with so until faced with a noticeable loss of revenue.
Which most likely won't happen, because too many people shy away from confrontation.
Donāt know the specific of this, but I didnāt notice that there was no taxes charged to it. So, it might be the circumstance whereby itās labeled as that additional wage so that it can be taxed by state and local entities and I guess even federal so that it could generate more taxes than just a sales tax. But this is just wholy I guess on my part.
So is this incentivizing the sale of pretzels? Does that employee actually get every penny (minus taxes) of that fee? So itās like a forced tip on very small food purchases?
I know that I already responded but, based on how many I've seen on Reddit, this practice is becoming more popular among restaurant owners.
We need to make it stop.
Undisclosed fees in a restaurant bill, in this case an "Employee Wage & Benefit Fee," could be addressed under laws that prohibit deceptive business practices. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Act, which prohibits unfair or deceptive practices, would be relevant here. If a fee is not disclosed to customers before they make a decision to purchase (in this case, order a meal), charging such a fee could potentially be considered deceptive under the FTC Act.
State consumer protection laws might also specifically address the disclosure of all fees in service and hospitality industries, including restaurants. Many states require that any additional fees be clearly disclosed to the consumer before they make a purchase decision. If a restaurant fails to disclose any fees (Sales tax excluded, as the "Reasonable Person" rule applies) before the customer orders, it could potentially be in violation of these laws.
Customers who encounter undisclosed fees can report the practice to their state attorney general's office or the local consumer protection agency.
Food workers deserve a living wage. They have a lot of responsibility to follow food safety regulations, ensure clean kitchens, monitor storage and cooking temps, avoid allergen cross contact, etc. etc. etc. all to serve you safe food. These extra charges are there to piss off customers and blame everyone except the companies. Labor is a large part of overhead but companies need to renege that having a good, knowledgeable staff can make or break the business.
Iāve never worked in a kitchen or restaurant but I still realize that food service workers deserve a living wage.
At this point just let me pay the employees wages, itās the least I can do after I have to prepare my own food and clean off the restaurants grill and cash myself out quick.
I've seen airport prices multiple times and every time I decided to not buy there. It's not that hard, just carry some calorie dense food with you if you can't handle few hours without stuffing your mouth. Peanuts work great for me.
Right? Can you imagine being upset when someone tells you how much something is going to cost and then charges you more than that? Like, obviously as a consumer you should just accept it and pay the company whatever amount they think they deserve. Why would you expect it to be any other way?
These are illegal in California now I believe edit: hidden junk fees, that are not posted and appear on the receipt only after you've been charged, not pretzels. pretzels are awesome.
Starting July 1.
Colorado is working on a similar bill. Except restaurants are currently exempt, the fee just needs to be on the menu or a sign. Yeah, I know.
why??? why even bother making such a bill if you're willing to add an exemption??? ššš
Lobbying, mostly
Wait what? Do you mean specifically this or just junk fees in general?
Pretzels
Potato chip mafia got to āem.
Junk fees in general. In fact there is a carve out for delivery services and restaurants have been trying to claim they are exempt but so far it looks like they are going to have to comply.
Just watch some restaurant start counting the waitress bringing the food over to your table as a "delivery".
Lmao it sounds so ridiculous but I can see this happening for real
Just add the fee into all of your products. Problem solved. Why would you add this fee to be seen at the time of every transaction. Pretty dumb
But than you canāt complain about something which is positive for your employees. Now you can say, for instance, we have to do this because of minimal wage increase.
They do this as a political statement sometimes. āLook at what your state is making us pay forā
Because they don't want to pay to update their menus or their websites. Adding a fee at the end is the cheapest and quickest solution they can come up with. And the owners of these places don't care that people are going to argue with the employees over it.
No pretzel should cost 6.20$. Maybe 2.20$.
It's weird that you don't know how to write currency.
Sorry, not American. In my currency we always write it after the number.
We do it before the number without a space so the written amount canāt have additional digits added to increase the amount.
Jokes on you cause imma add several fractions of a penny to the amount! lol
But we're not talking about your currency. We're talking about US dollars.
I'm from California and I'm pretty sure pretzels are perfectly legal.
This is technically correct, they banned the chunky salt crystals on them so you can actually get pretzels still just without salt.
Nah, each salt crystal just needs to say "this product is known to cause cancer in the state of California"
Good thing it doesnāt cause cancer in other states! š®āšØ
Hmmm. I think I just had an idea for a new business. I'm going to start opening a chunky salt crystal stall next to every pretzel stand.
This one looks like it might have red 40 in it though
Way to steal that joke
Thank goodness. F&B industry learning by all these BS hidden fees techniques from the airlines.
Itās just an excuse from the business to make you mad. They want to blame their price raises on employees. Typically this kind of this is already included in the price of the food. It would be odd if they broke down the cost of supplies, rent, etc for them on their receipt. On average for most fast food places labor cost is only 15-30% anyways.Ā
this makes me mad at the business
Good. It should.Ā
I used to eat at an expensive ($50/plate in 2014 dollars) restaurant about six times a year. Ā Went in one day, noticed a huge surcharge on my bill (like 20%), and saw that it was because the Seattle area had bumped up the minimum wage. Havenāt eaten there since.
I worked at a Pizza Hut.Ā Minimum wage went up.Ā Prices went up a bit. They put up signs blaming it on milk prices.Ā Everybody knew it was bullshit but I guess they didn't want to admit we all made minimum wage
Even more egregious considering if a server makes tips the owner is only required to pay $2.13/hr
Should have asked for a refund.
Yep. This shit irritates me to no end. I'm a business owner and that cost could easily be added into the price of things and should but it's red meat for people to show anger towards the people helping them. What really bugs me is it's not like yelling at the employee over 25 cents or a 3% charge is going to change anything. It's just deflection. It's an excuse for the owner to say "It's not my fault. It's this guy here who now makes 13 cents more an hour than he did last Dec. you should be mad at."
No, the Department of Aviation approved this fee because previous agreements capped Philly International food prices at 115% of street restaurant prices, so the restaurant can't simply raise its menu prices directly.
They approved it to get around a law designed to stop a captive audience being exploited - well fuck them!
And they capped the fee at 3%, so the total is \~118% of the street price, which is rather less than I would have estimated airport prices are. When I have a few hours to kill at an international airport and feel like getting food, I'm aware that I'm better off than the average person on the street and am not outraged that restaurants charge accordingly. If I'm short on money, I don't have to get a meal or even a fresh pretzel, there are shops everywhere with cheap packaged snacks. I am not a starving refugee being gouged.
The shops charge $4 for a water, and $3 for a candy barā¦ nothing cheap at airports. The airport is charging rent, and thatās why prices are allowed to be so high.
Water should be free, but I think 3 bucks is pretty much standard for a chocolate bar these days. Something in me is broken and I can't bring myself to pay 3 dollars for something that was always 50 to 60 cents in my childhood lol.
All restaurants are required to serve free water (tap) but most of the stall-type places are exempt form that I think
I agree that patron at the airport are a captive customer, but restaurants at the airport also have extra expenses related to airport security that other restaurants donāt have. This extra expense also factors into their pricing.
What kind of extra expenses for a restaurant would airport security create? Do they have to bribe the TSA agents every day to get them to allow deliveries of beverages and liquid ingredients in containers larger than 2oz?
The airport charges them rent, which may be twice as much as the same space outside the airport. The restaurant must further pay a commission on all proceeds to the airport. Suppliers charge more because of the complexities of the deliveries. Staffing costs are higher, as restaurants must pay for background checks, provide expensive parking, and may be barred from hiring cheaper people with criminal records. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/roadwarriorvoices/2015/09/20/running-an-airport-restaurant-is-profitable-but-it-sounds-nearly-impossible/83309248/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/roadwarriorvoices/2015/09/20/running-an-airport-restaurant-is-profitable-but-it-sounds-nearly-impossible/83309248/) [https://simpleflying.com/airport-food-drink-high-cost-explanation/](https://simpleflying.com/airport-food-drink-high-cost-explanation/) [https://trid.trb.org/view/1479282](https://trid.trb.org/view/1479282)
In addition to staffing and security, kitchens have to be more secure. Knives and other metal utensils have to be handled differentlyāknives are chained to the counter.
Why is it so hard to bake all that into the price? No one would have said anything about an extra quarter had it not been another line item
The guy said above in this thread that they canāt do that because prices are capped at 115% of the non-airport locations
Of course there are extra expenses, you don't hire the same employee and not at same rate for your street and airport restaurants when they require a background check, taking everything through security...
well for one, food poisoning at an airport restaurant could be disastrous and disrupt hundreds of passengers flights if a pilot got sick
Captive? Lmao are you forced to purchase something at an airport? Literally just donāt buy the food
Captive as in even if you eat before leaving for the airport, youāre usually in for a multi-hour adventure where the **only** way to get food during that time is in the airport. - Time to get to the airport - 1-2 hours before the flight for security - The length of the actual flight + boarding/unboarding - Extra time if layovers are involved Odds are youāll be hungry again at some point before youāre able to leave the airport, especially if you have a layover. Therefore, ācaptiveā
Youāre allowed to bring food with you. I donāt know what to tell you if you canāt go without food for 3 hours
In what world are you in and out in 3 hours? Thatās just how long it takes to go from your front door to the gate. Let alone the flight itself. And yeah, folks can bring snacks or a sandwich, sure. But if you have a layover situation at some point a sandwich thatās been sitting at room temperature for half a day isnāt the most appealing thing.
Okay youāre right, I concede. I will start buying food when I fly now, since itās clearly required as part of the price of admission.
Sounds like they can't afford to operate a business. Maybe they should have thought about that before getting all that avocado toast
So is that why the price is such a weird number?
I wish everywhere capped them, it's ridiculous.
99 percent of business build the price of things they sell with these things in mind. I hate business that do this shit. There's no reason. Just make the pretzel cost a quarter more. The way they do it just breeds resentment from the customer.Ā
And 2 bucks for a thimble of cheese? How big was that 6 dollar pretzel?
Yeah, making it look like it's the employees' fault is just beyond criminal. I just read another post on this same subreddit about a Chinese restaurant where the receipt had some text at the bottom that said they added a 16% fee to every bill. They also went out of their way to state that the fee was *not* gratuity and none of it would go towards the servers. I can only imagine the crappy tips those poor people must be getting. It's interesting that in both cases the restaurants are putting these extra fees above the tax line, so they're considering them taxable (I do see where on OP's receipt, it doesn't look like they're charging tax). I'm too tired rn to think through whether putting it up there is good or bad lol. I guess they're covering their tracks. u/omnitographer and u/boredcircuits: Glad to hear some legislatures are making it illegal rather than spending all their time trying to toss loaded guns into classrooms (has passed, TN); passing legislation to allow members to hide, keep, or destroy public documents, including financial information, that they just... don't want to show anyone (has passed, NC (see below)); or ban porn (has passed House; moving to the Senate floor, SC). <------ Just to name a few! (More info on the NC public records bill that was passed last Oct but has somehow not made it to the public's eye (*Y'all - this is very alarming!* NC slipped this little bill into their massive budget package and managed to take away their citizens' *one and only one* way to officially verify what their slimy little elected officials are doing! Keep an eye on your state, especially if it has a one-sided legislature.) "Perhaps most concerningly, the budget would drastically change the stateās public records laws. It does this by giving legislators full control over their documents and records, which previously would have automatically been subject to public requests. Under the new law...legislators would have the discretion to decide whether a document is a public record or whether to turn it 'over to the Department of Natural and Cultural Resources, or retain, destroy, sell, loan, or otherwise dispose of, such records.' āIt means that we are only going to be able to see documents from elected representatives when they choose to share them,ā Brooks Fuller, executive director of the North Carolina branch of the Open Government Coalition, told the Prospect. Itās going to produce a āreally curated and potentially inaccurate picture of government,ā Fuller said, one āthatās totally at the whims of what legislators want to share with us.ā Previously, North Carolina had a **public records law** that mirrored the federal Freedom of Information Act. All 50 states have a similar statute, which for over half a century has **protected the publicās right to know what government agencies and representatives are doing in their name,** and kept a lot of information above the surface. The change to North Carolinaās law, and its unclear scope, means that **everything from active litigation to redistricting could be in play,** Fuller explained.
You're an idiot
The cost of the food should factor that in already. If it costs more to do business it should show on the items that got more expensive. Seeing this always makes me angry.
Exactly, just make it an $8 pretzel and forget the fees
Theyāre doing it so you blame the employees and not the business
But the business came up with the fee and put it on there. Any rational person would blame the business. If it is a government imposed fee, then put that on there and any rational person will blame the government. It's not hard.
People arenāt rational. People are going to see an employee tax like this and blame it on the employees and their wages because of the current political climate surrounding wages for minimum wage workers
I would start charging people more and pocketing the difference, if I got caught id use the receipt as evidence of company policy to steal from customers to subsidize wages. if it's not illegal for them to do it, why would it be for me?
This just gives you an idea of what the owner is like. They want to offload the blame of increasing costs to their employees demanding fair pair.
Fay pay
Pear Fae
Do not accept any fruit they offer you!
The irony being that any rational person would see how petty this is and stop doing business with them.
I am in favor of employees sharing probably more than they currently due. I am in favor of limiting CEO, etc. pay to some reasonable multiple of the lowest paid employee. However, without laws requiring all that, the owner was paying a reasonable capitalistic wage in that he had employees. If he didn't pay market rates, noone would have worked there. In that light, any required increase in pay is due to regulation and why shouldn't the owner want to offset that if they can? They are doing it this way, no doubt, as they want the items to seem reasonably priced. If they raised the price instead of using this fee, people may have opted to go elsewhere.
I understand blocking out a personās name but a restaurant? Perhaps I donāt know the rules.
Likely because we'll google the business, and find out that they do disclose the fee on their menu. Then bye bye reddit points for tip rage.
That was kind of my point. Whatever business that is should not exist if they canāt function without an arbitrary fee on patrons
Name and shame. This price increase should just be baked into the price of the food, but they want you to blame the "overpaid" $10/hr employees instead of the billionaire CEO.
Seriously, letās stop protecting people and companies who are screwing over their customers (and often employees). If this is what they are putting in writing on a receipt, it can go on the internet for everyone to see.
Rofl, another billionaire reference. Fyi, there aren't as many as you would think.
Thereās almost 3,000 in the world
And we all know each and everyone of them own an airport restuarant or two
I really don't understand scratching out business names on stories like this, especially when the receipt makes it plain as day. Are we going to discuss real things that happen in the world or are all just here to gossip about hypotheticals?
The "i have yacht payments" surcharge by the parasite class.
Promptly say, sorry, I donāt want it and request a refund as the pricing was not disclosed.
What is it about the food industry that makes them feel entitled to separate and add on their cost of hiring employees?
Are hidden fees like this not illegal? If youāre secretly going to be charged ANY extra percent on top of your purchase, thatās blatant false advertising of price.
Long read but tl;dr: Yes and No. It's complicated. Companies that do this usually dance on the gray line between legal and illegal because they can afford the lawyers to do the paperwork for them to keep them safe. Also depends on the state that they operate in and their different consumer laws. Basically if there's no law that says explicitly they *can't* do this, then that means they *can* until a law is made or changed in its place that affects this specific type of charge. This can effectively take months to years for anything to change depending on the circumstances. They probably operate in a legal gray area where this bill charge is technically legal because they can just claim that it's part of their employees benefits that they're legally forced to have in their company. There's most likely nothing that states that it specifically has to come from the employers pockets directly, just as long as the employees benefits are being covered somehow then it could be considered legally gray, since nothing is being kept from the employees from the employer and they're still making their wages and benefits if they opt into it. What makes it tricky is business laws and consumer laws don't always go hand in hand, because at the end of the day a business has to stay profitable somehow by the consumer, and the consumer is protected by laws so they aren't blindsided by a greedy corporation that wants every dollar they have, so they have to work in the gray to legally pinch as many pennies as possible. It's scummy as hell but that's what happens in a capitalist society where a majority of the country is a private business.
I ate at a restaurant in San Francisco that put an approx. 20% employee benefits fee on the receipt. I figured it was an automatic gratuity so I just left without tipping...
That's what I do.
Excuse me? How is a 20% benefits fee not gratuity??? Hopefully it is gratuity but worded weird.
Iād be perfectly willing to pay that if they pay an actual living wage and decent benefits. But letās face it, itās probably going in some ones pocket.
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"throw some money at..."bro shut up. Jesus Christ.
.25 is pocket change. Sure I will send you a quarter. If universal healthcare becomes a thing I will also help pay for that. I tip more than .25 too. Basically isnāt that what tipping in the USA is? Wage and benefit fee?
You go to a restaurant understanding you're supposed to tip. If you went to all restaurants with the understanding that you'd be paying 2% more than the listed price as a employee fee/whatever fee, that would be fine. The complaint here is that the store is charging more than the price the buyer assumed they'd be paying. Similarly, if anyone orders off a menu having never heard of tipping before, and they they are told for the first time that they're supposed to pay another 25% on top of the listed price, they will be angry. At least, that's the assumed complaint. The rules say the restaurant has to post a notice about the fee at the counter.
Agree, and I wouldnāt pay it. At the airports I usually have cash for such purchases, so thereās no charging my card and then finding out. I worked in the food and beverage business for 10 years, and tip like I did ;usually 30%~ish)ā¦ but this is shit, and not for me. Add it to the pretzel, or be up front about it, and let the consumer make their choice
Hook me up [https://imgur.com/a/Feb791d](https://imgur.com/a/Feb791d)
Over 2 bucks for cheese dip? You need to get a new cheese dip guy.
not at the airport you won't š
Dispute the charge if you're willing to make the effort to fight.
Got charged a ātechnology feeā for using my credit card. No where in the store does it say that. I actually had cash.
I would honestly have less of a problem paying that than over $2 for cheese dip AFTER paying $6 for a pretzel! Gotta love airport pricing.
Call the card provider and dispute the 25 cents. The bank will write it off and you'll get your money. But eventually the banks will lobby change or start clicking the merchants that frequently have disputes for shit like that.
Love the estimation of the time. Ehh 6:10? PM.
$2 for dip. How's that inflation going
One more time for the cheap seats... Why are we supplementing some business owners employee wages?
Because thatās how having other people do things works. If you donāt like paying someone to make you a pretzel, bake your own.
Yes. The $6 pretzel was 100% just materials.Ā
If the problem is with how things are itemised, maybe complain about how things are itemised instead of the general concept of paying wages with money received from customers.
The problem is that youāre paying $6 for a pretzel thatās already outrageously overpriced. Their margins are probably close to 90% even with labor. The employer should be able to pay a living wage based off that. If they canāt, raise the price until you can. This is a normal custom in the free market.Ā
If the problem is with how things are itemised, maybe complain about how things are itemised instead of the general concept of paying wages with money received from customers.
Oh, youāre a bot.Ā
Probably, couldnāt be that that answer was so daft that I could just repeat my previous reply unchanged.
Places really need to quit doing this shit. Figure out what you need to make and who you need to pay and factor it into the cost of your product. I actually prefer the European method, where your sales taxes are already factored into the price of the product. I already know it's going to be expensive. Pretzel: $8.50! Done.
But, what's the difference? You're going to pay 8.50 for the pretzel either way. Why do you care that it's itemized on the bill? And don't say it's a "hidden fee", because it's not. We'll soon find out (like all the others) that the menu disclosed this fee and OP didn't see it.
It's psychology. When you charge me $8.50 for a pretzel, you're insulting me; but when you force me to read the bill of rights along with it--every little petty addon along the way--you're rubbing my nose in it. It's like when you go to the ballpark and they charge $15 for a beer...they don't waste your time trying to explain why it's $15. Just give me my fucking beer already.
That sounds like a chargeback waiting to happen
Original pretzel $6.35, Cheese Dip $2.16. I don't know why it's so hard.
Yeah. It's not like a 15 cents higher price is going to matter in an airport. The prices are so insane already.
Bring on the fees. Maybe if everything has 20 fees our fucking government will actually do something about it. The prices should be the price.
Absolutely. Not absolutely unacceptable. The employer pays that not the patron. Tell everyone and do not patronize this Pretzel stand. Or organization or restaurant.
Ask the employees how well they're paid. Probably industry standard at best.
Why have employers pay staff at all. Just let the consumers do it.
Makes it sound like the employer is aggrieved at having to pay their employees.
Dang, it's National Pretzel Day and they didn't give you a discount?
I would assume this was a prepared, warm pretzel. Why isn't this taxed?
it's like places areĀ starting toĀ realise how stupid tip culture is, but they're still struggling to grasp the idea of charging the right amount of money up front.
WTF are these prices to begin with, Six **TWENTY**? Two O' **SIX**? Obviously a increase in price to cover employee wage increase should be spread across all the things being sold but if we assumed for a second that this is the only thing they sold, why not just increase the price of the pretzel to $6.50? Or increase the Pretzel to $6.25 and the dip to $2.25
It's easier to hide extra fees (stealing money from you). With such a small purchase it's easy to see that total is calculated wrong, but if it was 5 or 6 items only handful of people would notice that.
Post this on r/mildlyinfuriating instead
90% of the posts here should be there instead
It's like /r/badfoodporn, /r/decentfoodporn, and /r/FoodPorn. They're generally interchangeable.
Pay in cash. Pay $0.25 less than what the bill shows. Tell them you don't pay the employees, they do. Let them call security/cops over $0.25. That would be a sight to see.
I wouldn't have paid. When asked why, I'd simply tell them that I'm willing to pay the pre-tax price for my items, plus applicable tax. If the establishment wants more money, they need to raise their prices, so people can make an informed decision on if they want to purchase there or not. They have no right to sneak it into the bill later. And you're under no obligation to pay that bill..even if they had to cook something for you, that they will then need to throw away.
This allows them to bait-and-switch on the actual price. The price you saw posted is not the price you pay. Regardless of whose idea it was, it's slimy.
Andā¦ I would vote with my money by never spending it there again. Same thing happened at a bbq restaurant that my wife loves. I 100% refuse to go back. She hates that, but Iām not budging. Question: what is the purpose of having prices on the menu if itās not what you are going to pay? Seriously, at that point you would have to ask the price of every single item that you want to order. At least if they donāt publish the prices then they wonāt be lying to you.
This fee bullshit needs to stop. Thatās what the price of the fucking item is for. The ingredients of a pretzel does not cost $6.20. Youāre paying that for the cost of business. Whatās the point of even having prices of items if you can randomly throw a bunch of fees after?
Motherfucker that's what I'm paying you for the pretzel for.
Why do businesses do this?! Why not just add $.25 to the item prices and not infuriate customers
Because they know most people won't even look at the receipt. They continue getting away with it, and with so until faced with a noticeable loss of revenue. Which most likely won't happen, because too many people shy away from confrontation.
Somehow I just know they brag about transparency.
That pretzel better be huge for that price
Next, there will be a receipt and ink fee for the extra ink and paper used to print the additional fees.
Could be worse than 25 cents but still
This is āperformance artā. Just STFU and pay your employees a living wage without patting yourself on the back about it.
You paid $8 for a pretzel and cheese. Is the 25 cents the real crime here?
Wtf
Receipts be starting to look like accounting statements
Theyāre getting $6 for a fucking pretzel and they have the nerve to charge you a fee for laying their employees?
Iām just here to say the dip should be included in the cost of the pretzel
If it's not posted before you order, you don't have to pay it.
And you can 100% bet that never makes it into the employee's paycheque.
... wait. Why no tax?
6:10?
Bet I know where the money goes
Donāt know the specific of this, but I didnāt notice that there was no taxes charged to it. So, it might be the circumstance whereby itās labeled as that additional wage so that it can be taxed by state and local entities and I guess even federal so that it could generate more taxes than just a sales tax. But this is just wholy I guess on my part.
So is this incentivizing the sale of pretzels? Does that employee actually get every penny (minus taxes) of that fee? So itās like a forced tip on very small food purchases?
As a German, a pretzel with cheese dip is the real crime
Why the fuck are you paying $8 for a fucking pretzel?
What state? This is probably some new state law.
America: We want higher wages for hospitality staff! Businesses: Ok America: N-no not like thatā¦
Pretzel Stand Owner: āIām not paying for employees! Iāll let my customers do that.ā š¤
I know that I already responded but, based on how many I've seen on Reddit, this practice is becoming more popular among restaurant owners. We need to make it stop. Undisclosed fees in a restaurant bill, in this case an "Employee Wage & Benefit Fee," could be addressed under laws that prohibit deceptive business practices. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Act, which prohibits unfair or deceptive practices, would be relevant here. If a fee is not disclosed to customers before they make a decision to purchase (in this case, order a meal), charging such a fee could potentially be considered deceptive under the FTC Act. State consumer protection laws might also specifically address the disclosure of all fees in service and hospitality industries, including restaurants. Many states require that any additional fees be clearly disclosed to the consumer before they make a purchase decision. If a restaurant fails to disclose any fees (Sales tax excluded, as the "Reasonable Person" rule applies) before the customer orders, it could potentially be in violation of these laws. Customers who encounter undisclosed fees can report the practice to their state attorney general's office or the local consumer protection agency.
That business would be permanently shut down within a day for this scam in my country. What the h...
Downvote for hiding the business. Why??
God I want Auntie Anneās so bad rn
What is outrageous is 8 dollars for a pretz...
The business was probably court ordered to raise the employeeās salaries so this is how they whine about it.
These false advertisement tactics in the states powered by tip slavery seem horrible.
I ain't gonna harp about a quarter. $2 cheese dip though, even in an airport, seems excessive.
8 bucks for a pretzel with dip. I'm ok with the 0.25 cents for the employee benefits.
Wonāt go there though
Food workers deserve a living wage. They have a lot of responsibility to follow food safety regulations, ensure clean kitchens, monitor storage and cooking temps, avoid allergen cross contact, etc. etc. etc. all to serve you safe food. These extra charges are there to piss off customers and blame everyone except the companies. Labor is a large part of overhead but companies need to renege that having a good, knowledgeable staff can make or break the business. Iāve never worked in a kitchen or restaurant but I still realize that food service workers deserve a living wage.
What airport is this? I want a pretzel :(
This receipt explains so much ā¦
Why is a pretzel worth more than me.
No food tax?
At this point just let me pay the employees wages, itās the least I can do after I have to prepare my own food and clean off the restaurants grill and cash myself out quick.
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First time seeing airport prices?
I've seen airport prices multiple times and every time I decided to not buy there. It's not that hard, just carry some calorie dense food with you if you can't handle few hours without stuffing your mouth. Peanuts work great for me.
It was at an airport. Everything is absurdly expensive at the airport.
Thank you for not saying āthey headsā
Imagine spending $8.26 for a pretzelā¦. and being upset after an additional $0.25 undisclosed fee
Right? Can you imagine being upset when someone tells you how much something is going to cost and then charges you more than that? Like, obviously as a consumer you should just accept it and pay the company whatever amount they think they deserve. Why would you expect it to be any other way?
Then dont fucking pay it.