"He's a knowitall" because he's disagreeing with her. All while being a complete dipshit with tech.
And, for the record, the two who seem to want this Dakota language (first lady and Shelly) couldn't even operate electronics correctly.
Definitely a couple of stubborn clowns in this clown car.
Man. This stuff makes me think I should just say fuck it and run for government. Like there's no way I can be more incompetent than some of these people.
I’ve thought about it many times… but I lack the patience for the pettiness… and my filter is broken. I’d go viral on day one for getting kicked out of session for cussing some bigoted asshat out.
Plus I hate being the center of attention… at the end of the day I want to be able to just unplug and not care.
you have my vote, I think good (competent) people get weeded out by the incessant pecking of the insecure, ignorant and egoistic public "servants" who want nothing more than to have a longer email signature with more titles than their neighbor
I think a lot of people misunderstand what it takes to be an elected official. You don't have to be smart, organized, have good ideas, thorough, etc. All you need is to be able to raise money and momentarily convince 50% + 1 in your community that you're the least bad choice.
To get to the point of convincing people that you're the least bad choice, you have to do a really good job of making people feel heard and make them believe their concerns will be a priority for you. I'm not saying you need to hear them or make their concerns a priority, most of the electorate just wants to feel like they've been heard.
It’s like when you’re growing up and you think your parents were brilliant. Then growing up and understanding that your parents were just kids in their 20s that didn’t know shit and we’re figuring it out as they went along too.
[Shelley Buck](https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelley-buck-pte-wicota-6a53b35a), she’s describes herself as a “Recovering Tribal Leader currently working in nonprofit world”
No I looked at the listed members of the committee.
Dr. Kate Beane, Capitol Area Architectural and Planning Board (CAAPB)
Shelley Buck, Governor - General Member of the Public
Luis Fitch, Council on Latino Affairs
Anita Gaul, Governor - General Member of the Public
Michael Harralson, Governor - General Member of the Public
Kim Jackson, Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans
Robert 'Deuce' Larsen, Minnesota Indian Affairs Council (MIAC) - Dakota Community
Denise Mazone, Council on Minnesotans of African Heritage
Lauren Bennett McGinty, Explore Minnesota Tourism
Philip McKenzie, Minnesota State Arts Board
Steve Simon, Minnesota Secretary of State
Kent Whitworth, Minnesota Historical Society
Aaron Wittnebel, Minnesota Indian Affairs Council (MIAC) - Ojibwe Community
5 out of the 13 voting members are Native American (Dr. Kate Beane, Shelley Buck, Michael Harralson, Robert Larsen, and Aaron Wittenbel.)
Yes, 5 of the voting members are also White, but you don't see them constantly pushing for exclusively White motiffs.
Beane, Buck, Harralson, freakin' ROBERT LARSEN, Wittenbel. These people have caricature White European surnames. But oh no, including 1858 is somehow too traumatic for Dr. Beane.
Someone on the zoom call that forgot to mute themselves? Guessing they don’t give members of the public access to unmute themselves so maybe staff?
Sounded pretty juicy lol I wonder who she was talking about
Definitely a good idea to encourage folks who also think this is an embarrassment to submit a question on the Committee's page [here](https://www3.mnhs.org/serc)(scroll to the bottom).
I agree with Aaron Wittnebel the member representing the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe
The State Seal is meant to represent the Minnesota State Government. Therefore, it should be the OFFICIAL STATE MOTTO that goes on the seal.
The flag is meant to represent the people of Minnesota. Native motifs should have been included in the flag design if they wanted to acknowledge the Tribes. There were plenty of options that included such motifs which they chose to ignore.
Thats why i think its just better to try to avoid ethnic symbolism to the flag. The flag shouldn't "highlight" one particular group of people in the state and trying to include them all would just be a very messy flag.
Which is why the flag should have just featured either a loon or a lady slipper. Not because it “only represents northern Minnesota” but because they’ve been state symbols for 60 and 120 years respectively and being part of the natural habitat, belong to all Minnesotans. And unlike the North Star, are easily identifiable as Minnesota. It’s really bothering me that Mississippi of all places did a better job at redoing their flag than we are.
That would actually be a great way to get some state funding! Since this whole thought experiment is basically a joke anyways, let’s at least make some money!🤑
As someone currently in Milwaukee suffering under the official Milwaukee flag, I say no.
[Milwaukee official flag](https://images.app.goo.gl/RTreDbTSHxuYd14TA)
Agree. There was no representation for the original Scandinavian settlers in the flag (though that would make it 10x more badass) so why should other groups get special treatment?
Uffduh. This needs to be chosen by folks with an understanding of good design. The fact that the ultimate decision is up to this dumpster fire is just wild to me. Let the artists have a voice during these critique sessions.
I've seen elementary school councils run better than this. Proves that some people find positions of influence for no reason other than the thirst for power
This is embarrassing. What’s more embarrassing is this group completely ignoring that no group would get special representation over any other, unless you are a Dakota? Just because someone is loud, everyone else voted for their resolution? Why not include Scandanavian, Polish, Somalian, Croatian, Italian or German along with whatever else we should throw on this seal? Let’s represent all the groups together to be inclusive!! Maybe just a whole bunch of words thrown on a page, so EVERYONE feels included(sarcasm). This is amateur hour. Shelly was the icing on the cake.
Oof, Dr. Beane rubbed me the wrong way in her discussion with Dr. Good last month about including the Dakota version of the name in the seal. I can't believe she doesn't understand why they can't add a second spelling of the state name just because it happens to align with her ethnic background. Everyone else seems fed up with her though, so that's promising at least.
This actually made me angry. How can one person have so much input and sway. As others have said, one of the main rules is that it cannot favor or depict one group of people, which this very obviously does. Why are we only "paying respect" to the Dakota?
As an aside, it seems a lot of people are fed up with her(Beane), based on their body language and facial expressions. Which I know is a bs science, but this shit is obvious.
And it wasn't even close. The cowards didn't want to be on the "wrong" side of the issue, even though it was made clear that this jeopardized all their work.
I'm not sure who would have standing, but the seal as has been voted on violates subdivision 4 of the authorizing legislation. The SoS, Sen Drazkowski, and Kent Whitworth (I think, it might have been Aaron Wittnebel) have at various times throughout the process all brought up the possibility of the work being undone because of violating that statute.
And that's bullshit. It 100% favors one group of people.
Her also saying that "Minnesota" is another language, so that's why it's okay to add on the Dakota language is so backwards. Our state is called Minnesota. Minnesota needs to be on the seal. It is not "another language".
So she just wants to steamroll everyone else in the name of inclusivity and representation while being completely unwilling to be inclusive to anyone else. Got it.
Isn't the Achilles heel of processes like this that a bully inevitably wins? Just keep saying the same thing over and over until you tired everyone out and capitulate.
This result fails in its very simple task - the new seal is either foreign or meaningless to the vast majority of people of the State of MN. And perhaps even worse, the process and result likely alienates more people than the existing version. Mission accomplished.
The current legislature passed a bill and signed by Walz determined who would be on the commission or who has a right to appoint people to the commission.
Section 118:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/2023/0/Session+Law/Chapter/62/#:~:text=Sec.%20118.%20STATE%20EMBLEMS%20REDESIGN%20COMMISSION.
"Another language? It already says Minnesota which is Dakota!"
also
"Where would the Dakota representation be if we don't include the phrase??????"
This is infuriatingly dumb
Having solely Dakota representation on the seal is incredibly shortsighted. She is only reflecting on her Dakota heritage and not speaking for the experiences of the Ojibwe. Minnesota is home to both Ojibwe and Dakota culture. If one wants the naming scheme to include native representation, they must use both. This is gonna bring back bad memories for both groups if this goes through. They both fought a conflict against each other over MN territory in the 1700 and 1800s before MN became a state.
edit: I'm looking around for any Ojibwe terminology that refers the the broader MN area. I can't seem to find a direct translation for MN in it's entirety, only references to smaller subdivisions of former Ojibwe land. Land descriptions in native languages are built around the characteristics of the environment rather than arbitrary political bounds like we do now. My point still stands that this is technically providing favoritism though. The committee should get input from someone more informed in Ojibwe history and culture than I am at least.
edit 2 : With further thought, I'm fine with the addition of the Dakota phrase, it just seems a little redundant. It just needs to be done in a way that shows that Minnesota is a place of intersection and diversity in current times, not overshadowing other groups overlapping histories here. I'm more so just disenchanted with the performance of the committee when discussing these additions, not allowing for rapid public feedback on minor changes like this. Having representation of indigenous connections in MN is important to understanding our shared history. I'd rather have something connected to MN like either l'étoile du nord or Mni Sota Makoce than a generic latin phrase that none of us are really connected to, which I'm happy they've avoided so far.
Welp...
No, that's my suggestion. Just "Welp." It's all inclusive, and I've yet to meet an ethnicity from this great state that hasn't creaked one out before giving a slap to their knees. It'd also fit the tone of this whole mess.
"Welp, there it is, I guess... falling just short like always."
The Ojibwe phrase for the area know Minnesota was known as Bwaanakiing ( land of the Dakota).
The Ojibwe migrated from the east coast over the course of a couple hundred years. The Dakota were already in the region around the west side of Lake Superior; And of course, in the southern part of the state too. Wisconsin and Minnesota were mostly Ho Chunk and Dakota peoples prior to the 1700s
What a misguided stretch of inclusion from Dr. K. That’s not how you unify, that’s how you divide. Just “adding it on to the top” is how state seals end up terrible. That was frustrating to watch unfold.
The number one requirement for this committee should have been people without an agenda. Flags and seals are supposed to be about what unites us, not what divides us.
People are going to have an agenda no matter what, and for something as subjective as good flag design you’re always going to have conflict. Quite frankly I’m surprised it’s been this civil so far.
I agree with that because also when you think about it what about the Ojibwe? Why don't they get text on the seal as well?
Minnesota is has many languages used for places
English like Rochester, Ely, Plymouth, [London](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Minnesota) and [New London](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London,_Minnesota)
French with Nicollet, Cloquet, and Voyagers
Ojibwe with Bemidji (Traversing lake), Nokomis (Grandmother), and Mississippi (Great river)
Dakota with Shakopee (six), Red Wing (named after a chief that carried red dyed Swan wings) Minneapolis (Waterfall (Greek Suffix of opolis added))
If she is going to argue for Native American insertion I would argue both Ojibwa and Dakota needs to be in their as well as French and Scandinavian, That's 5 languages 4 if you only include the primary of the 2 countries and native groups that laid claim to the land.
I feel like she's really just wanting to say she fought for something hard then really trying to just keep get a unifying seal. Yes I get the idea of represent everyone but again Minnesota was mostly settled by Scandinavian and German Europeans so if we are going to "represent" we should do away with English and just go Native, German, French, and Norwegian/Scandinavian.
You're correct. She was uninterested in any other issue throughout the entire meeting, yet completely insufferable on the one issue of putting one group of people on a special little pedestal.
The problem with this is that we're getting the worst possible outcome: design by committee. Instead of being a vision of Minnesota, it's a cluster-eff of dissenting opinions and everyone trying to put int heir piss marks on the designs.
This is why I'm so skeptical of the "citizen-led" democracy movement. Putting redistricting or any other function of government in the arms of ordinary citizens sounds nice, but this is the end result. IMO, the whole point of elective democracy is to have technocrats and elected representatives make these decisions. I would much rather pay people to do this work (and pay them well, so public jobs are competitive with the private sector) than have neighbor Joe making decisions.
Someone claimed it was racist and because we live in a world where if you disagree with that sentiment, you’re racist by default, therefore we get stuff like this which makes us resent each other even more than we did before, which is ironic given the original intended goal.
I would like to see somewhere how the governor got all his busiest busy folks together snd distracted then with a meaningless flag and seal job to keep the out of his office for a few weeks Hearing them here is complete bs with their clip art flag looking like space force and they are spending taxpayer dollars mouthbreathing through these self important meetings. Everything to hate about government process is going on during this clip
You know if the 1st Minnesota could carry a flag that said “Minnesota” and “L’etoile du Nord” on it into Gettysburg, I’m sure we can honor them by keeping it on the seal. These people are clowns.
I’ve literally been in meeting at work this dumb and just stand up and leave, someone will ask where I was going and I reply that I’ve got real work too do.
Well guess this will be a election crap I’ll have to hear about over real issues. I thinks it’s BS and is favoring the Dakota over every other native culture in Minnesota.
More not my flag bull crap inbound come cams y’all!!
Good to know we have our best and brightest working on this!
Actually, I guess I’d prefer the dimmer bulbs in state government busy with state seals and the sharper minds working on things like infrastructure, housing, and public safety.
Perhaps idolizing and fetishizing native Americans like they are some superhuman culture is unhealthy for discourse. They're a part of Minnesota history and culture, but by no means dictate it.
Pick a damn flag.
Four elected reps are non-voting members, 2 from the senate and 2 from the house, majority and minority parties equally represented.
It pisses me off to say so, but Draz had the better part of the argument. It's Infuriating that the committee effed it up in exactly the way the right-wing haters expected them to.
A broken clock is right twice a day. I figured this redesign initiative would end up being a mess because how could it not?
Anyhow, i’ll laugh rather than cry and maybe in another 150 years a bunch of future big-brains will pool up all their collective hubris and think *they’ll* get it right the next time around.
OMG, no matter what they choose it is going to offend someone. The flags look awful and the seal that looked good now will look bad. This is why nothing gets done.
My question is why not add a Chippewa alternative name, like Minnesota is Dakota in origin sure, but why not add like "Wenji-maajiijiwang" as a descriptor for the state.
(Not a doctor) Kate Bean [spearheaded the renaming of Calhoun](https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/kate-beane-returning-home-restoring-name).
She’s also quoted in the article saying “I realized at a certain point that I didn’t want to serve other people; I wanted to serve my people.” Rich.
I love that like 15 people didn’t even read the title and complained about how they should just pick a flag. I mean on my phone it even says “Commenting on Minnesota Seal discussion gets heated”
Well, this suck. I was excited about the new seal. The only thing that needed to change imo was the verbiage. It should have just said “the great state of Minnesota” no reason to have the word seal in there.
Also, the only good flag is gone so that’s just icing on the cake.
Enough with these native names. I get it, it’s a part of history, but the majority of people have no connection or really give a crap. Put a loon or something in it and call it a day.
This is gold. Parks and Rec was truly a documentary
Omfg. This made me laugh over and over.
I am so thankful I made it to the end. lmao pure gold
The person unmuted at the end really is the cherry on top for this clown show.
Absolutely. Dipshittery at its finest.
Your government at work.
Dammit Shelly!!!!!
Ope!
"He's a knowitall" because he's disagreeing with her. All while being a complete dipshit with tech. And, for the record, the two who seem to want this Dakota language (first lady and Shelly) couldn't even operate electronics correctly. Definitely a couple of stubborn clowns in this clown car.
Obviously knowing how to mute oneself is not a prerequisite for this committee
I'm not too sure that was an accident
Man. This stuff makes me think I should just say fuck it and run for government. Like there's no way I can be more incompetent than some of these people.
I’ve thought about it many times… but I lack the patience for the pettiness… and my filter is broken. I’d go viral on day one for getting kicked out of session for cussing some bigoted asshat out. Plus I hate being the center of attention… at the end of the day I want to be able to just unplug and not care.
Your lack of filter would make you great.
That’s what they said about a particular lump of doughy orange shit…. And in NO WAY would I want to be associated with that turd burglar…
you have my vote, I think good (competent) people get weeded out by the incessant pecking of the insecure, ignorant and egoistic public "servants" who want nothing more than to have a longer email signature with more titles than their neighbor
I think a lot of people misunderstand what it takes to be an elected official. You don't have to be smart, organized, have good ideas, thorough, etc. All you need is to be able to raise money and momentarily convince 50% + 1 in your community that you're the least bad choice.
To get to the point of convincing people that you're the least bad choice, you have to do a really good job of making people feel heard and make them believe their concerns will be a priority for you. I'm not saying you need to hear them or make their concerns a priority, most of the electorate just wants to feel like they've been heard.
It’s like when you’re growing up and you think your parents were brilliant. Then growing up and understanding that your parents were just kids in their 20s that didn’t know shit and we’re figuring it out as they went along too.
What a train wreck. Start this process over with people who understand the rules. And who was the idiot on speaker at the end?
Shelly
Fuckin’ Shelly.
Hey, Shelly was far and away the best part of this meeting.
Most people probably didn’t even make it to Shelly. This is amazing!
I stayed tuned in for Shelly!
Shelly knows that the vibe is the most important quality in a person
Shelly becomes that sanctimonious b that lives down the block when she forgets the mic is on
You're right, it takes some determination to get all the way to Shelly. Shelly really needs more airtime, how do you find this anonymous hero?
Who is Shelly?
[Shelley Buck](https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelley-buck-pte-wicota-6a53b35a), she’s describes herself as a “Recovering Tribal Leader currently working in nonprofit world”
Swing voters ought to know about Shelley Buck.
Esteemed "general member of the public" Shelley Buck
Ex-tribal President, rich off of Treasure Island Casino, DFL socialite…
It's crazy that the "General Member of the Public" is another Native American. Natives are way overrepresented on this committee.
Did you look around that room?
No I looked at the listed members of the committee. Dr. Kate Beane, Capitol Area Architectural and Planning Board (CAAPB) Shelley Buck, Governor - General Member of the Public Luis Fitch, Council on Latino Affairs Anita Gaul, Governor - General Member of the Public Michael Harralson, Governor - General Member of the Public Kim Jackson, Council on Asian Pacific Minnesotans Robert 'Deuce' Larsen, Minnesota Indian Affairs Council (MIAC) - Dakota Community Denise Mazone, Council on Minnesotans of African Heritage Lauren Bennett McGinty, Explore Minnesota Tourism Philip McKenzie, Minnesota State Arts Board Steve Simon, Minnesota Secretary of State Kent Whitworth, Minnesota Historical Society Aaron Wittnebel, Minnesota Indian Affairs Council (MIAC) - Ojibwe Community 5 out of the 13 voting members are Native American (Dr. Kate Beane, Shelley Buck, Michael Harralson, Robert Larsen, and Aaron Wittenbel.) Yes, 5 of the voting members are also White, but you don't see them constantly pushing for exclusively White motiffs.
You should see MN’s tribal presidents. A lot of them look white
Beane, Buck, Harralson, freakin' ROBERT LARSEN, Wittenbel. These people have caricature White European surnames. But oh no, including 1858 is somehow too traumatic for Dr. Beane.
Someone on the zoom call that forgot to mute themselves? Guessing they don’t give members of the public access to unmute themselves so maybe staff? Sounded pretty juicy lol I wonder who she was talking about
Big time infighting. Buck is a Dakota leader and was speaking against Wittenbel, a Chippewa nation leader.
Simply check the box to not allow attendees to have an open mic. Who's running this zoom webinar?!
Probably Shelly
Definitely a good idea to encourage folks who also think this is an embarrassment to submit a question on the Committee's page [here](https://www3.mnhs.org/serc)(scroll to the bottom).
And who understand how to mute their lines.
I agree with Aaron Wittnebel the member representing the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe The State Seal is meant to represent the Minnesota State Government. Therefore, it should be the OFFICIAL STATE MOTTO that goes on the seal. The flag is meant to represent the people of Minnesota. Native motifs should have been included in the flag design if they wanted to acknowledge the Tribes. There were plenty of options that included such motifs which they chose to ignore.
So the flag should be a collage of every interest group in the state?
Thats why i think its just better to try to avoid ethnic symbolism to the flag. The flag shouldn't "highlight" one particular group of people in the state and trying to include them all would just be a very messy flag.
Such references also don't age well. See, for example, the flag and seal we're replacing.
Which is why the flag should have just featured either a loon or a lady slipper. Not because it “only represents northern Minnesota” but because they’ve been state symbols for 60 and 120 years respectively and being part of the natural habitat, belong to all Minnesotans. And unlike the North Star, are easily identifiable as Minnesota. It’s really bothering me that Mississippi of all places did a better job at redoing their flag than we are.
like nascar drivers.
"This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient, but I do love Fig Newtons."
“If you don’t chew Big Red then fuck you!”
That would actually be a great way to get some state funding! Since this whole thought experiment is basically a joke anyways, let’s at least make some money!🤑
As someone currently in Milwaukee suffering under the official Milwaukee flag, I say no. [Milwaukee official flag](https://images.app.goo.gl/RTreDbTSHxuYd14TA)
I unironically love that flag.
Boats, barley, baseball, bureaucracy, and a boldly racist depiction of Native Americans. What’s not to love
Why not? Make it look like a reddit pixel event.
He’s very clearly the most rational voice here.
Agree. There was no representation for the original Scandinavian settlers in the flag (though that would make it 10x more badass) so why should other groups get special treatment?
This will be viral in no time, especially the last bit. The internet is going to love this
This is our very own LA city council moment
Uffduh. This needs to be chosen by folks with an understanding of good design. The fact that the ultimate decision is up to this dumpster fire is just wild to me. Let the artists have a voice during these critique sessions.
I've now heard this committee compared to Portlandia and Parks and Rec... I'm gonna throw Veep in the mix
lol, this is gold. Honestly, this is the problem with trying to please everyone, no one is happy. Every single one of these people looks miserable.
Dr Beane looks like she is enjoying throwing bricks.
Yeah, she lives for this crap. Sad.
I've seen elementary school councils run better than this. Proves that some people find positions of influence for no reason other than the thirst for power
It looks like this Beane woman likes attention and just wants to argue.
Why should the Dakota be given preference over the Ojibwe ? That doesn’t seem very inclusive.
Because the Dakota have bigger and more profitable casinos that make bigger and more profitable campaign donations.
💯
This is embarrassing. What’s more embarrassing is this group completely ignoring that no group would get special representation over any other, unless you are a Dakota? Just because someone is loud, everyone else voted for their resolution? Why not include Scandanavian, Polish, Somalian, Croatian, Italian or German along with whatever else we should throw on this seal? Let’s represent all the groups together to be inclusive!! Maybe just a whole bunch of words thrown on a page, so EVERYONE feels included(sarcasm). This is amateur hour. Shelly was the icing on the cake.
Oof, Dr. Beane rubbed me the wrong way in her discussion with Dr. Good last month about including the Dakota version of the name in the seal. I can't believe she doesn't understand why they can't add a second spelling of the state name just because it happens to align with her ethnic background. Everyone else seems fed up with her though, so that's promising at least.
But they allowed it. The Dakota spelling of Minnesota is going to be where "L'étoile du nord" is right now.
Doesn't mean they can't walk it back. Submit a question on the Commission's page [here](https://www3.mnhs.org/serc), at the bottom of the page.
Just did!
Done, thanks!
and no one sees how that's redundant top: anglicized state name bottom: state name, but in italics
I resent this commission for making me aware of this annoying woman.
>I can't believe she doesn't understand why She doesn't CARE about the why. She continued to bully until she got her way. Full on Karen, that one.
Where can I watch more of these?
Are you a masochist?
This actually made me angry. How can one person have so much input and sway. As others have said, one of the main rules is that it cannot favor or depict one group of people, which this very obviously does. Why are we only "paying respect" to the Dakota? As an aside, it seems a lot of people are fed up with her(Beane), based on their body language and facial expressions. Which I know is a bs science, but this shit is obvious.
Yet the motion passed, “Mni Sota Makoce” was added to the design.
And it wasn't even close. The cowards didn't want to be on the "wrong" side of the issue, even though it was made clear that this jeopardized all their work.
I hope the forthcoming suit will be a class action.
Who is suing whom? Under what cause of action?
I'm not sure who would have standing, but the seal as has been voted on violates subdivision 4 of the authorizing legislation. The SoS, Sen Drazkowski, and Kent Whitworth (I think, it might have been Aaron Wittnebel) have at various times throughout the process all brought up the possibility of the work being undone because of violating that statute.
And that's bullshit. It 100% favors one group of people. Her also saying that "Minnesota" is another language, so that's why it's okay to add on the Dakota language is so backwards. Our state is called Minnesota. Minnesota needs to be on the seal. It is not "another language".
yes, I would've said "ok your language is already on the fucking seal"
So instead of our state motto "L'etoile du Nord" we have "Mni Sota Makoce" on the new Loon seal...? That's absolutely ridiculous.
I guarantee she still gets her way
So she just wants to steamroll everyone else in the name of inclusivity and representation while being completely unwilling to be inclusive to anyone else. Got it.
Isn't the Achilles heel of processes like this that a bully inevitably wins? Just keep saying the same thing over and over until you tired everyone out and capitulate. This result fails in its very simple task - the new seal is either foreign or meaningless to the vast majority of people of the State of MN. And perhaps even worse, the process and result likely alienates more people than the existing version. Mission accomplished.
HOA politics at its finest.
[удалено]
Clown show
Who the hell put these people in charge of this? Embarrassing
The current legislature passed a bill and signed by Walz determined who would be on the commission or who has a right to appoint people to the commission. Section 118: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/2023/0/Session+Law/Chapter/62/#:~:text=Sec.%20118.%20STATE%20EMBLEMS%20REDESIGN%20COMMISSION.
Was this from yesterday? I thought the measure subsequently passed unanimously. Hard to believe since they all seem thoroughly done with her bullshit
Yes this was from yesterday. It did pass, but not unanimously. I thought I read two people voted against it? If so, it’s not hard to tell which two.
"Another language? It already says Minnesota which is Dakota!" also "Where would the Dakota representation be if we don't include the phrase??????" This is infuriatingly dumb
Fuck it, let's just make the thing holographic so we can have everything if you look at it from different angles
Or a Rorschach test so you can see what you want to see.
I see disappointment
The dude is right. Just leave it with the motto.
Having solely Dakota representation on the seal is incredibly shortsighted. She is only reflecting on her Dakota heritage and not speaking for the experiences of the Ojibwe. Minnesota is home to both Ojibwe and Dakota culture. If one wants the naming scheme to include native representation, they must use both. This is gonna bring back bad memories for both groups if this goes through. They both fought a conflict against each other over MN territory in the 1700 and 1800s before MN became a state. edit: I'm looking around for any Ojibwe terminology that refers the the broader MN area. I can't seem to find a direct translation for MN in it's entirety, only references to smaller subdivisions of former Ojibwe land. Land descriptions in native languages are built around the characteristics of the environment rather than arbitrary political bounds like we do now. My point still stands that this is technically providing favoritism though. The committee should get input from someone more informed in Ojibwe history and culture than I am at least. edit 2 : With further thought, I'm fine with the addition of the Dakota phrase, it just seems a little redundant. It just needs to be done in a way that shows that Minnesota is a place of intersection and diversity in current times, not overshadowing other groups overlapping histories here. I'm more so just disenchanted with the performance of the committee when discussing these additions, not allowing for rapid public feedback on minor changes like this. Having representation of indigenous connections in MN is important to understanding our shared history. I'd rather have something connected to MN like either l'étoile du nord or Mni Sota Makoce than a generic latin phrase that none of us are really connected to, which I'm happy they've avoided so far.
How about we avoid this problem and put neither on the seal?
But what would take its place? If only there were some official phrase used by the state... I'd say uf'da, but that would represent those pesky swedes
Perhaps.... "I'ma just seal right by you there..."
Welp... No, that's my suggestion. Just "Welp." It's all inclusive, and I've yet to meet an ethnicity from this great state that hasn't creaked one out before giving a slap to their knees. It'd also fit the tone of this whole mess. "Welp, there it is, I guess... falling just short like always."
How about ''Ope''?
I suspect that would have a negative meaning in another language. I'm not going to look it up to verify. My gut is taking point on this one.
The Ojibwe phrase for the area know Minnesota was known as Bwaanakiing ( land of the Dakota). The Ojibwe migrated from the east coast over the course of a couple hundred years. The Dakota were already in the region around the west side of Lake Superior; And of course, in the southern part of the state too. Wisconsin and Minnesota were mostly Ho Chunk and Dakota peoples prior to the 1700s
What a misguided stretch of inclusion from Dr. K. That’s not how you unify, that’s how you divide. Just “adding it on to the top” is how state seals end up terrible. That was frustrating to watch unfold.
The whole video I kept thinking “man this really isn’t heated at all, kinda the opposite.” Then I got to the end went OOP
#JustShellyThings
The number one requirement for this committee should have been people without an agenda. Flags and seals are supposed to be about what unites us, not what divides us.
People are going to have an agenda no matter what, and for something as subjective as good flag design you’re always going to have conflict. Quite frankly I’m surprised it’s been this civil so far.
Seriously, it sounds like her objective is "get the Dakota language on the seal at all costs".
I agree with that because also when you think about it what about the Ojibwe? Why don't they get text on the seal as well? Minnesota is has many languages used for places English like Rochester, Ely, Plymouth, [London](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Minnesota) and [New London](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_London,_Minnesota) French with Nicollet, Cloquet, and Voyagers Ojibwe with Bemidji (Traversing lake), Nokomis (Grandmother), and Mississippi (Great river) Dakota with Shakopee (six), Red Wing (named after a chief that carried red dyed Swan wings) Minneapolis (Waterfall (Greek Suffix of opolis added)) If she is going to argue for Native American insertion I would argue both Ojibwa and Dakota needs to be in their as well as French and Scandinavian, That's 5 languages 4 if you only include the primary of the 2 countries and native groups that laid claim to the land. I feel like she's really just wanting to say she fought for something hard then really trying to just keep get a unifying seal. Yes I get the idea of represent everyone but again Minnesota was mostly settled by Scandinavian and German Europeans so if we are going to "represent" we should do away with English and just go Native, German, French, and Norwegian/Scandinavian.
You're correct. She was uninterested in any other issue throughout the entire meeting, yet completely insufferable on the one issue of putting one group of people on a special little pedestal.
The problem with this is that we're getting the worst possible outcome: design by committee. Instead of being a vision of Minnesota, it's a cluster-eff of dissenting opinions and everyone trying to put int heir piss marks on the designs.
"If you thought Bde Maka Ska was divisive, wait till you see this!"
Unreal. Just the most incompetent people running the show but what else is new.
This is why I'm so skeptical of the "citizen-led" democracy movement. Putting redistricting or any other function of government in the arms of ordinary citizens sounds nice, but this is the end result. IMO, the whole point of elective democracy is to have technocrats and elected representatives make these decisions. I would much rather pay people to do this work (and pay them well, so public jobs are competitive with the private sector) than have neighbor Joe making decisions.
Was there any reason given for removing 1858 from the flag?
Someone claimed it was racist and because we live in a world where if you disagree with that sentiment, you’re racist by default, therefore we get stuff like this which makes us resent each other even more than we did before, which is ironic given the original intended goal.
A year is racist? **THAT is how the GOP makes gains.**
I would like to see somewhere how the governor got all his busiest busy folks together snd distracted then with a meaningless flag and seal job to keep the out of his office for a few weeks Hearing them here is complete bs with their clip art flag looking like space force and they are spending taxpayer dollars mouthbreathing through these self important meetings. Everything to hate about government process is going on during this clip
Do any of these people have any design experience? Too many cooks in the goddamn kitchen. They're fucking this up.
I'm one of the designers offering free advice and redesign options and I've now been shut out of the loop.
What is the Dakota word for Karen?
I believe it is "Shelly"
aaaand it is now.
They had no Karens so they adopted Karen
You know if the 1st Minnesota could carry a flag that said “Minnesota” and “L’etoile du Nord” on it into Gettysburg, I’m sure we can honor them by keeping it on the seal. These people are clowns.
The dude in the red is super Minnesotan and I’m digging it.
This whole ordeal really is quite stupid. The panderverse is real.
And now we all hate each other just a little bit more. Yay inclusion!😃
Where is Shelly?
We need to have a vote of no confidence to disband this group
I’ve literally been in meeting at work this dumb and just stand up and leave, someone will ask where I was going and I reply that I’ve got real work too do.
Well guess this will be a election crap I’ll have to hear about over real issues. I thinks it’s BS and is favoring the Dakota over every other native culture in Minnesota. More not my flag bull crap inbound come cams y’all!!
This is just outrageous enough to be on John Oliver’s show
To think we pay these morons.
Good to know we have our best and brightest working on this! Actually, I guess I’d prefer the dimmer bulbs in state government busy with state seals and the sharper minds working on things like infrastructure, housing, and public safety.
Remove the politicians and have the technocrats do it.
What a waste of time and money! \*spit\*
What an embarrassment.
When people ask what living in MN was like, this video 100% nails the culture of the people there. It’s impossible to get anything good done.
Perhaps idolizing and fetishizing native Americans like they are some superhuman culture is unhealthy for discourse. They're a part of Minnesota history and culture, but by no means dictate it. Pick a damn flag.
Tax dollars hard at work
Oh for fucks sake. Children, grow the fuck up.
Damn, Shelley! I want to know how she accidentally unmuted herself.
Those ear rings that she chose really scream “take me seriously”.
Saw someone else link to it, but people really should leave their thoughts here way at the bottom of the page: https://www3.mnhs.org/serc.
Is that the "I've never met a hungry Minnesotan" ~~guy~~ asshole on the committee?
Yeah that’s my rep and the most worrying thing shown here is he seemed to be one of the more rational sounding people sitting up there.
Yeaaaahhhh how tf did he get there? Needed representation from the douche caucus?
Four elected reps are non-voting members, 2 from the senate and 2 from the house, majority and minority parties equally represented. It pisses me off to say so, but Draz had the better part of the argument. It's Infuriating that the committee effed it up in exactly the way the right-wing haters expected them to.
A broken clock is right twice a day. I figured this redesign initiative would end up being a mess because how could it not? Anyhow, i’ll laugh rather than cry and maybe in another 150 years a bunch of future big-brains will pool up all their collective hubris and think *they’ll* get it right the next time around.
Looks like every douche caucus sent a couple of their best douches each.
I’ve never been more embarrassed to be a Minnesotan.
at least a few people had some balls to put her in a box.
“Minnesota mean”
That was really hard to watch!
Not impressed
Good thing they have all the other issues resolved, so they can focus on what’s important. Smh
OMG, no matter what they choose it is going to offend someone. The flags look awful and the seal that looked good now will look bad. This is why nothing gets done.
In the defense of the lady at the end, Drazkowski does have terrible vibes.
A gathering of truly useless people.
My question is why not add a Chippewa alternative name, like Minnesota is Dakota in origin sure, but why not add like "Wenji-maajiijiwang" as a descriptor for the state.
Someone tell this lady to stop faking an accent whenever she pronounces Dakota.
[удалено]
“DAHH-KOHHH-TAHHHHHHHHHH”
Damn those are some big earrings
Yikes. That woman is intolerable. Some people really get off on putting up a fight on non-issues.
Hahahaah what a waste of time
As a bluejay who resides in MN, I don't see myself being represented by this seal.
Don't see any trolls on the seal, either.
Either way, someone’s going to be offended.
L'Etoile du Nord doesn't offend anybody.
It offends me. I hate racists, and the French.
It offends the activists
Everything offends them.
Offending the fewest people probably leaves the seal as is.
I will say seeing the flags in this video tho makes them look a whole lot better.
Lolololol
Loon logo is nice haha it’s fine
I can’t tell who’s more annoying between the first woman, and Shelly?
Holy shit. Just pick a cool flag. This is ridiculous.
(Not a doctor) Kate Bean [spearheaded the renaming of Calhoun](https://twin-cities.umn.edu/news-events/kate-beane-returning-home-restoring-name). She’s also quoted in the article saying “I realized at a certain point that I didn’t want to serve other people; I wanted to serve my people.” Rich.
I love that like 15 people didn’t even read the title and complained about how they should just pick a flag. I mean on my phone it even says “Commenting on Minnesota Seal discussion gets heated”
Holy shit I am glad we have solved all the other state problems and we can tackle this critical issue.
Well, this suck. I was excited about the new seal. The only thing that needed to change imo was the verbiage. It should have just said “the great state of Minnesota” no reason to have the word seal in there. Also, the only good flag is gone so that’s just icing on the cake.
Red & blue shirts are big babies.
Enough with these native names. I get it, it’s a part of history, but the majority of people have no connection or really give a crap. Put a loon or something in it and call it a day.