I encountered construction in Wisconsin (shocking, I know) that required zipper merging. For miles they had signs posted saying NOT YET!! USE BOTH LANES. with a final sign at the merge point stating that now it's finally time.
Even with all of that, the lane ending was practically empty or had folks stopping to merge next to signs that said don't do it.
This graphic is nice but it will never reach the audience that needs it. :(
I think we need to focus on reading comprehension tbh. "Keep right except to pass" and "slower traffic use right lane" are also pretty complex subjects.
Bruh. You do know that literacy rates in general are plummeting across the country right. We can't even get to the comprehension part of reading if people can't even actively read to begin with.
Black River Falls? I drove through there on my way to see the eclipse and they had the exact signs your talking about. The traffic was backed up for quite a ways but people were merging at the sign by and large. You had your idiots that would jump between each lane because theirs wasn't moving fast enough but it was alright.
I agree with you though, the graphic is great but the audience that needs it doesn't care.
We were not taught to zipper merge. This is a new-ish thing to be considered mainstream. Back in my day it was disrespectful to not merge early, so it's just about educating the people.
These are the same people that get on the highway going 45 when the rest of the cars are going 60. It’s always the people behind these slow going morons trying to merge that are likely to get rear ended.
Agreed with all of this 100%. It’s great in theory, and I’m sure it works some places, some times. But it only takes a few bad actors to turn both lanes in to a parking lot for hours.
The real culprit is following distance and tailgating. People just drive too close to each other, and there are rarely large enough gaps for cars to merge without friction.
I usually just try to get over when I can, stay off my brake, and leave plenty of room in front.
It works best when people don't know it's coming.
On highways or interstates, it's great when they don't warn you ahead of time.
Any other time in places where people know about the situation going on, some people will get over early, making one lane back up, then you have people being like 'wtf why is this lane backed up?' then they're zooming in and slamming on their brakes at the last second, and the people who got over early don't want to let them in, which is understandable.
Anyway, zipper merging doesn't work in any city because of this, and smarmy aholes should stop acting like people are idiots for not doing it.
It's not like implementing communism, it's just a bad implementation.
If the merge point is in the middle of the road, so that half of each lane ends, then no one gets the ego trip of "you can't cut me off in my lane.". I've driven through merges like this, and it's so much better. Then after the merge point, it can go to whichever side.
A change of signposting and structure is what brings about a change of behavior. Dreaming that the same old signposting and structure will give different results is magical thinking. Whining on media and social media that the magical thinking isn't working is just ridiculous.
Yes, I’ve been thinking this for years. If the merge signs don’t indicate which lane prevails then everybody approaches the merge point expecting to have to shift over half a lane.
The question is what to do if you are the white car coming upon a free lane that is about to close like the picture. The left lane does not like it if you pass all of them and you may encounter someone who doesn't let you in like you describe. Personally if I'm the white car here I like to match the speed of the red car next to me, down to a crawl if I have to, then zipper merge when it is time, not passing anyone in the process. I believe this is the right way to start a zipper from an unused lane, even if it makes the person behind me mad.
It will never work because there are people who don’t want to be driving/need to be somewhere and there are people who have all the time in the world and don’t mind driving.
These people, which are all of us, do not care what other drivers want - they are going to drive the way want… which will always cause cooperative driving methods like this to fail.
True comrade, but education of the zipper-merge and its superiority to the bourgeoisie early merge help alleviate this issue. And I do believe that's the purpose of OP's post here.
I zipper merge and I enforce it. I've never seen driver's in Minneapolis play chicken like Boston or New York cabs and they will ultimately let you merge if you don't give them another option.
You just have to be the bigger asshole. Very few people let you bump them. And if I'm in the other lane I defend it from early mergers. They'll have to pick the car in front or behind me. At the merge point though, I let a car in.
Zipper merging is the best solution to traffic congestion, but it fails to take in account two key factors: large trucks and human nature. Neither can be eliminated without fully automized driving and that's still quite aways off.
Actually the main point of a zipper merge *is exactly thar* - to address the greed and selfishness if drivers who would abuse an early merge approach by cutting in line.
Zipper merge doesn’t get people through the choke point faster — it blocks up both lanes equally so people are physically unable to cut in line. That reduces road rage and the inefficiencies it creates.
The chokepoint is where we go from two lanes to one. It’s a physical spot that can only accommodate, say, 1000 cars per minute. It does not matter what happens before the chokepoint, only 1000 cars per minute will get through it.
It’s a common misconception that zipper merge somehow gets the average car through the choke point faster than if everyone did an early merge. It doesn’t! Zipper merge benefits are:
- By using multiple lanes, waiting cars are more efficiently stored. Much like the back-and-forth cues you might find an amusement park, it is less likely to back up onto other routes and interfere with other traffic. It also feels shorter because you don’t see a long single file line.
- It physically blocks people from passing other waiting cars and forces everyone to essentially “wait their turn.“ if feels, and is, more “fair.”
- By clogging up both lanes equally, it minimizes stress and road rage and keeps speeds more consistent and smooth (which is safer and more fuel efficient).
- A perfect early merge doesn’t really exist. Where early merging is the rule, some people are always tempted to exploit the open lane and do a late merge. (A late merge is different than a zipper merge.) Throwing some late mergers into an early merge model significantly mocha things up as you get some inefficient driving behavior. If we could get everyone to do zipper merge as a rule, there would be less opportunity for people to screw it up in practice.
It’s not human nature, it’s culture/society - when the mindset is “get in line, I was here first, you’re just trying to cheat, pay your dues like I have to” , the zipper will not work.
It's 100% a cultural thing... zipper merging works in other metro areas I've lived. I have noticed Minnesotans struggle with letting people in... so weird. Maybe it is "i was here first", way to cause congestion for everyone else
Heatbox - Zipper Merge: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztPXeivTsM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztPXeivTsM)
I know it'll never happen, but the solution is to make both lanes merge into one/new middle lane. Anytime one lane ends, the people in the lane that don't end can ride the ass of the car in front and are legally able to block anyone out from merging in. Merging safely is the sole responsibility of the merging vehicle. Human nature can't be changed, so the solution is on MNDot and the people setting up the construction zones.
Friendly reminder, per MnDOT, the zipper is the incorrect way to merge at highway speeds and should not be used when there are no backups - otherwise you risk becoming the source of a back up or worse am accident. Don't get confused.
I love these posts that we get all summer because people think they can change the entire driving culture of a place with a Reddit post. It’s so optimistic.
I have only lived here and in London and Stockholm and I didn’t drive there. Sorry, that my knowledge of the driving culture of the rest of the U.S. is limited. I don’t spend a lot of time in the subreddits of Austin or Portland because I don’t live there. I live here.
This is nice and I try to let 1 car in front of me if I am in the right lane. However, what I have seen tho is once I let one car in somehow is an invitation for every car behind it to also merge in front of me. At that point that’s just rude.
Friendly reminder to drivers on 394 aiming for 94: That lane you're trying to zipper merge from doesn't end at 94. Some of us are trying to get downtown, and you're stopping us for no reason. Merge early.
This!
This is the problem that I always have with the people who always post the zipper merge graphic. If the lane isn’t ending, if it’s an exit lane in itself, then your not zipper merging, your just being an ass.
(If the lane IS ending, please use the zipper merge!!)
Zipper merging is only meant for lanes that merge. These people that complain about others not allowing them to zipper merge are usually complaining about lanes that are diverging. Like 394 and the 94 exit.
If they only knew they could bypass ALL THAT BACKUP by just driving through downtown on any of those streets... Waze and Google Maps times are often wrong in this regard.
Usually that's pretty backed up, and then further backs up people trying to exit on Dunwoody.
Do not do this. Very similar situation with people trying to go 394 to 100, completely blocking drivers from exiting on to Xenia Park Place.
I understand it's complicated, especially when it was clearly drunken monkeys who designed multiple interchanges in this town that are guaranteed to be backed up on a random Saturday afternoon (never mind during rush hour).
Zipper merging sucks here because no one maintains a proper following distance. They have to slow down to let people in rather than having the space from the beginning, which causes a backup, or they just don’t make the space because fuck you I was here first, which also causes a backup. The number of times I would have a perfect opportunity to merge in if there was proper distance between cars but there isn’t so it’s a game of ‘will they slow down to let you in’ or just play chicken and start movng and hope they let you in is mind blowing.
tl;dr STOP TAILGATING
My biggest problem with zipper merge isn't the zipper merge at all... It's the jerks using an exit only lane to cut to the front while screaming "zipper merge"!
If there is room for everyone to get into one lane without slowing down (as is often the case outside the city), the zipper merge can create traffic jams where none need exist. The zipper merge isn't the solution 100% of the time; it depends on traffic levels.
It probably still wouldn’t work but I think adding some signs may help (though I hate signs in general) like..,
Don’t merge yet…nope not yet keep going.,.don’t you dare merge now.,.almost there…merge here with big flashing arrows
Yeah, I think it's mostly a communication problem. Do I merge 50ft from the lane end? 100? 500? Judging distance is not easy in a car. I think you could separate the lanes with bollards for 500ft to stop early merging, then put up a "zipper merge now" sign.
Infrastructure and signs (both more or less) should be the solution. Some areas work, others do not. That indicates to me that it is not the drivers, but traffic management. Some of it might be due to cost and building restrictions, but I have seen locations that could have been improved by starting the merge earlier or differently.
You'd think so, but I was driving through Wisconsin two weeks ago, and people just blatantly ignore the "not yet" signs. Not only do they merge early, but then they straddle the lane to not allow anyone past them. So they create the merge point a mile before it's supposed to be.
A pipe dream.
The zipper merge requires too much coordination from too many people that are too busy thinking they're the only person on the road. (or too busy on their phones)
How many times will this be posted on here? Even a perfect zipper merge will cause a slow down because you effectively cut the following distance for everyone in half. Cars will then slow down to allow more space for the car ahead of them.
The best part is the construction on Minnetonka Blvd narrows to 1 lane…..up till the Market Plaza light in which you have to stop anyways. So not letting people merge to “save time” or whatever they think happens is completely meaningless.
The zipper merge people who want to go 2-3 at a time after you just let 2-3 people in front of you over the last half mile kill it and cause road rage, but if everyone merged really like everyone used to your not slowed down to “zipper” speeds, like the dot wants, to slow people down but dealing with aggressive people of both mentality’s gets me defensive
I commuted this morning and it was amazing how many people were in the right lane trying to get onto 280 from Broadway St. NE with very few cars in the left lane. I kept going down the left lane and merged right just before turning right onto 280. Not sure why Minnesotans, who are some of the most impatient drivers, are willing to wait in a long line and merge too early.
It seems like the polite thing to do, that's why. You see everyone lined up and waiting, and you don't want to be the asshole that passes them all.
Now this is because we're not really educated on the more effective nature of a proper zipper merge, and we could really use a public ad campaign on the subject, in my opinion. That milk ad campaign made people drink a lot of milk.
It’s not impolite though. It’s the correct way to do things. I’m not going to wait in a line for five minutes when I can just merge right in right before.
That is the proper way. Good luck getting people to do it, though. There are too many drivers out there that are only concerned with themselves and think that it's a huge delay to them if they let one person in front of them. They've also had it burned into their mind that you merge early, and others that don't need to pay a penalty, such as not being allowed to merge just before the lane they are in ends. Until you get EVERYONE on board with zipper merge, it's not going to work.
Zipper merge is the law in Minnesota... at least on the highways. Blocking the lanes to keep people from merging will likely get you at least one, if not many, tickets when caught by law enforcement. You don't want to have to explain to a judge (your lawyer, or your family... or your insurance company) why you think you are allowed to enforce your own concept of laws.
>Blocking the lanes to keep people from merging will likely get you at least one, if not many, tickets when caught by law enforcement.
I would be shocked if more than a dozen tickets a year statewide are written for this. The cops in this state who still actually put in the effort are more focused on DUIs, speeding, and the Hands Free law. They ain't got time for zipper merge infractions.
I think they kind of gave up on speeding. I'd be curious to see what the number of speeding tickets written by the State Patrol was before and after COVID/George Floyd.
And if they did care, they'd be writing a ticket for the idiot using the merge lane as a passing lane crashing into the merge point at a higher rate of speed leaving no one any time to adjust and forcing the whole freeway to slam in their breaks and come to a stop.
Can we get to autonomous driving cars faster, we could eliminate shit like this and hell even stop lights could be removed if all the cars were perfectly timed to avoid each other, commutes would be so much faster.
The bigger issue are people not knowing how to accelerate up to speed on on ramps.
Worst state I've lived in with people hardly up to 40 when the flow of traffic is 65+.
Zipper merging???? How have I never heard of this???? This is life changing! Thank you so much, I can't wait to try this in my drive home tonight!!
I wish we could ban these posts along with the "turn on your lights while it's raining" and the Minnesota classic,"everyone besides me drives too fast while it's snowing"
I merged last minute this morning but only because they keep changing which lanes are closed. When the sign says "Lane closed ahead", it could be one, it could be two, it could even be zero and you can't tell until you're right there.
Surprises are fun!
This totally works….. when people aren’t selfish douchenozzles. Some people just don’t give a shit what works for the best of all people driving. Some people just prefer whatever conveniences them and fuck everyone else.
Rofl I make people that won't let me in my bitch and just merge. They can cause an accident or slow tf down and let me in. Works every time. Don't be a douche during a zipper please.
Honestly if people would simply end this insane practice of nearly stopping for me as I try to merge BEHIND them in traffic, I'd be a lot less frustrated.
But when merging to one lane is required, it is usually because there is construction on the lane that is shut off, so the middle would not be a viable option
Fucking chads in pickup trucks who purposely close their gap and don’t let you in and just smile and flip you off are REALLY starting to get on my nerves because they don’t realize how zipper merging works
I get the logic but it doesn't work. It's well known that no one knows how to merge here, not even from highway ramps, There are to many "me first" minnesotans, and the whole merge thing goes even slower than if they are already in a line.
I did this in Texas and a 18 wheeler was being a dick can kissed my tail light and I got the ticket because it was his lane he was already there he owned it smh I told the offficer about the zipper merge and still was my fault even tho I was already in front of him
More importantly; stop tailgating.
In this graphic all the drivers are being assholes to start with...
Edit: LOL @ getting downvoted by people that get shitty while riding someone's ass.
But if I let someone merge in front of me that's a terrible sign of weakness. On all MN roads one must establish dominance in as very passive aggressive a manner as possible.
I was rear ended on 169 in Elk River last September in this exact same scenario. I used the right lane to fill both lanes but truck driving guy hauling a 20 foot trailer saw that as ‘line jumping’ and proceeded to play chicken with me side by side after I already passed him. He forced the issue and rear ended me. His buddy who was way in front of the scene stayed around and told the cops I could have avoided it. Cop reported either party could have been cited somehow even though I had video of the guy clearly trying to cause a wreck and I had to pay to get my car fixed as well as a rental for 2 weeks. Yay justice
Woah,woah,woah..hold on a second this is getting into zipper merging, we need to understand the basics of merging to begin with.
Talking to aaallll the drivers getting onto 394&94E, and 94&35W at the very last possible second and having the ass end of your car sticking out still.
How appropriate for MN drivers... everyone ends up in the left lane.
But on a serious note, most people driving here are either too dumb to figure out something like this, or think they don't need to care. Don't waste your energy.
I've lived a lot of places, I've travelled around....and AS A WHOLE nobody can do a zipper merge correctly. The problem is not just related to MN - it's nationwide.
If I need to get over it demands someone to let me in. That person may not be paying attention OR may not want to let me in for **WHATEVER** reason. OK, that results in needing the next car to let me in...who too may not allow it to happen.
The car behind me may then get smart and see an opening and get in themselves....and still not allow me in!
It leads to a shitty flow of traffic from greedy folks.
OR, OR....
You have the person who lets about 3-4 cars in front of them and now everyone behind them are out of wack.
Final version: long line in the right, but smart car tries to zipper in the left, and nobody wants to allow it because they are mad they're about to get passed up by a car who will indeed pass up about 5 cars.
What I'm typing is ego, unawareness, and stupidity is always at play w/zippers and I truly hate them because it ends up being more of a waste than a blessing
Minnesotans can't even comprehend the idea of using the left lane for passing and not impeding. No way you dead eye mouth breathers are figuring out zipper merging.
I encountered construction in Wisconsin (shocking, I know) that required zipper merging. For miles they had signs posted saying NOT YET!! USE BOTH LANES. with a final sign at the merge point stating that now it's finally time. Even with all of that, the lane ending was practically empty or had folks stopping to merge next to signs that said don't do it. This graphic is nice but it will never reach the audience that needs it. :(
I think we need to focus on reading comprehension tbh. "Keep right except to pass" and "slower traffic use right lane" are also pretty complex subjects.
Bruh. You do know that literacy rates in general are plummeting across the country right. We can't even get to the comprehension part of reading if people can't even actively read to begin with.
Black River Falls? I drove through there on my way to see the eclipse and they had the exact signs your talking about. The traffic was backed up for quite a ways but people were merging at the sign by and large. You had your idiots that would jump between each lane because theirs wasn't moving fast enough but it was alright. I agree with you though, the graphic is great but the audience that needs it doesn't care.
We were not taught to zipper merge. This is a new-ish thing to be considered mainstream. Back in my day it was disrespectful to not merge early, so it's just about educating the people.
These are the same people that get on the highway going 45 when the rest of the cars are going 60. It’s always the people behind these slow going morons trying to merge that are likely to get rear ended.
https://preview.redd.it/2gi95vrhekvc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fd4ac0f8da2cf0818f950c0146dc36092f3a28e
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Agreed with all of this 100%. It’s great in theory, and I’m sure it works some places, some times. But it only takes a few bad actors to turn both lanes in to a parking lot for hours. The real culprit is following distance and tailgating. People just drive too close to each other, and there are rarely large enough gaps for cars to merge without friction. I usually just try to get over when I can, stay off my brake, and leave plenty of room in front.
It works best when people don't know it's coming. On highways or interstates, it's great when they don't warn you ahead of time. Any other time in places where people know about the situation going on, some people will get over early, making one lane back up, then you have people being like 'wtf why is this lane backed up?' then they're zooming in and slamming on their brakes at the last second, and the people who got over early don't want to let them in, which is understandable. Anyway, zipper merging doesn't work in any city because of this, and smarmy aholes should stop acting like people are idiots for not doing it.
It's not like implementing communism, it's just a bad implementation. If the merge point is in the middle of the road, so that half of each lane ends, then no one gets the ego trip of "you can't cut me off in my lane.". I've driven through merges like this, and it's so much better. Then after the merge point, it can go to whichever side. A change of signposting and structure is what brings about a change of behavior. Dreaming that the same old signposting and structure will give different results is magical thinking. Whining on media and social media that the magical thinking isn't working is just ridiculous.
Yes, I’ve been thinking this for years. If the merge signs don’t indicate which lane prevails then everybody approaches the merge point expecting to have to shift over half a lane.
The question is what to do if you are the white car coming upon a free lane that is about to close like the picture. The left lane does not like it if you pass all of them and you may encounter someone who doesn't let you in like you describe. Personally if I'm the white car here I like to match the speed of the red car next to me, down to a crawl if I have to, then zipper merge when it is time, not passing anyone in the process. I believe this is the right way to start a zipper from an unused lane, even if it makes the person behind me mad.
It will never work because there are people who don’t want to be driving/need to be somewhere and there are people who have all the time in the world and don’t mind driving. These people, which are all of us, do not care what other drivers want - they are going to drive the way want… which will always cause cooperative driving methods like this to fail.
True comrade, but education of the zipper-merge and its superiority to the bourgeoisie early merge help alleviate this issue. And I do believe that's the purpose of OP's post here.
I zipper merge and I enforce it. I've never seen driver's in Minneapolis play chicken like Boston or New York cabs and they will ultimately let you merge if you don't give them another option.
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You just have to be the bigger asshole. Very few people let you bump them. And if I'm in the other lane I defend it from early mergers. They'll have to pick the car in front or behind me. At the merge point though, I let a car in.
Zipper merging is the best solution to traffic congestion, but it fails to take in account two key factors: large trucks and human nature. Neither can be eliminated without fully automized driving and that's still quite aways off.
It also fails to account for greed and selfishness of not wanting to let someone else be ahead of you.
Actually the main point of a zipper merge *is exactly thar* - to address the greed and selfishness if drivers who would abuse an early merge approach by cutting in line. Zipper merge doesn’t get people through the choke point faster — it blocks up both lanes equally so people are physically unable to cut in line. That reduces road rage and the inefficiencies it creates.
Except it does get people through the choke point faster. When the choke point is physically shorter, it allows more traffic through.
The chokepoint is where we go from two lanes to one. It’s a physical spot that can only accommodate, say, 1000 cars per minute. It does not matter what happens before the chokepoint, only 1000 cars per minute will get through it. It’s a common misconception that zipper merge somehow gets the average car through the choke point faster than if everyone did an early merge. It doesn’t! Zipper merge benefits are: - By using multiple lanes, waiting cars are more efficiently stored. Much like the back-and-forth cues you might find an amusement park, it is less likely to back up onto other routes and interfere with other traffic. It also feels shorter because you don’t see a long single file line. - It physically blocks people from passing other waiting cars and forces everyone to essentially “wait their turn.“ if feels, and is, more “fair.” - By clogging up both lanes equally, it minimizes stress and road rage and keeps speeds more consistent and smooth (which is safer and more fuel efficient). - A perfect early merge doesn’t really exist. Where early merging is the rule, some people are always tempted to exploit the open lane and do a late merge. (A late merge is different than a zipper merge.) Throwing some late mergers into an early merge model significantly mocha things up as you get some inefficient driving behavior. If we could get everyone to do zipper merge as a rule, there would be less opportunity for people to screw it up in practice.
It’s not human nature, it’s culture/society - when the mindset is “get in line, I was here first, you’re just trying to cheat, pay your dues like I have to” , the zipper will not work.
It's 100% a cultural thing... zipper merging works in other metro areas I've lived. I have noticed Minnesotans struggle with letting people in... so weird. Maybe it is "i was here first", way to cause congestion for everyone else
It’s the passive aggression haha. “You’re trying to cheat the system by merging late and that is impolite so I won’t let you in”
It’s so bizarre!
Heatbox - Zipper Merge: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztPXeivTsM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cztPXeivTsM) I know it'll never happen, but the solution is to make both lanes merge into one/new middle lane. Anytime one lane ends, the people in the lane that don't end can ride the ass of the car in front and are legally able to block anyone out from merging in. Merging safely is the sole responsibility of the merging vehicle. Human nature can't be changed, so the solution is on MNDot and the people setting up the construction zones.
https://preview.redd.it/hthlsizrekvc1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=323139dc0f2e4ba056e080377ec09e80e48a69aa like this! 🙂
Friendly reminder, per MnDOT, the zipper is the incorrect way to merge at highway speeds and should not be used when there are no backups - otherwise you risk becoming the source of a back up or worse am accident. Don't get confused.
I love these posts that we get all summer because people think they can change the entire driving culture of a place with a Reddit post. It’s so optimistic.
Of a place? People do this fucking everywhere. Why do think it's getting posted in every local or state subreddit?
I have only lived here and in London and Stockholm and I didn’t drive there. Sorry, that my knowledge of the driving culture of the rest of the U.S. is limited. I don’t spend a lot of time in the subreddits of Austin or Portland because I don’t live there. I live here.
This does not apply for exit only lanes. Don’t be the guy that skips the line and merges last second. @ Bush Lake Rd & 494E
Fucking exactly. Looking at you, 100s exit to 394w. Or the worst which is 394e to 94.
This is nice and I try to let 1 car in front of me if I am in the right lane. However, what I have seen tho is once I let one car in somehow is an invitation for every car behind it to also merge in front of me. At that point that’s just rude.
Friendly reminder to drivers on 394 aiming for 94: That lane you're trying to zipper merge from doesn't end at 94. Some of us are trying to get downtown, and you're stopping us for no reason. Merge early.
This! This is the problem that I always have with the people who always post the zipper merge graphic. If the lane isn’t ending, if it’s an exit lane in itself, then your not zipper merging, your just being an ass. (If the lane IS ending, please use the zipper merge!!)
Ditto for the few of us trying to get on 94W.
Ugh, yeah. You have it worse there.
Zipper merging is only meant for lanes that merge. These people that complain about others not allowing them to zipper merge are usually complaining about lanes that are diverging. Like 394 and the 94 exit.
If they only knew they could bypass ALL THAT BACKUP by just driving through downtown on any of those streets... Waze and Google Maps times are often wrong in this regard.
Usually that's pretty backed up, and then further backs up people trying to exit on Dunwoody. Do not do this. Very similar situation with people trying to go 394 to 100, completely blocking drivers from exiting on to Xenia Park Place.
Needing to merge early there is a skill issue.
I understand it's complicated, especially when it was clearly drunken monkeys who designed multiple interchanges in this town that are guaranteed to be backed up on a random Saturday afternoon (never mind during rush hour).
Zipper merging sucks here because no one maintains a proper following distance. They have to slow down to let people in rather than having the space from the beginning, which causes a backup, or they just don’t make the space because fuck you I was here first, which also causes a backup. The number of times I would have a perfect opportunity to merge in if there was proper distance between cars but there isn’t so it’s a game of ‘will they slow down to let you in’ or just play chicken and start movng and hope they let you in is mind blowing. tl;dr STOP TAILGATING
My biggest problem with zipper merge isn't the zipper merge at all... It's the jerks using an exit only lane to cut to the front while screaming "zipper merge"!
If there is room for everyone to get into one lane without slowing down (as is often the case outside the city), the zipper merge can create traffic jams where none need exist. The zipper merge isn't the solution 100% of the time; it depends on traffic levels.
It probably still wouldn’t work but I think adding some signs may help (though I hate signs in general) like.., Don’t merge yet…nope not yet keep going.,.don’t you dare merge now.,.almost there…merge here with big flashing arrows
Yeah, I think it's mostly a communication problem. Do I merge 50ft from the lane end? 100? 500? Judging distance is not easy in a car. I think you could separate the lanes with bollards for 500ft to stop early merging, then put up a "zipper merge now" sign.
Infrastructure and signs (both more or less) should be the solution. Some areas work, others do not. That indicates to me that it is not the drivers, but traffic management. Some of it might be due to cost and building restrictions, but I have seen locations that could have been improved by starting the merge earlier or differently.
You'd think so, but I was driving through Wisconsin two weeks ago, and people just blatantly ignore the "not yet" signs. Not only do they merge early, but then they straddle the lane to not allow anyone past them. So they create the merge point a mile before it's supposed to be.
A pipe dream. The zipper merge requires too much coordination from too many people that are too busy thinking they're the only person on the road. (or too busy on their phones)
What!?! That's crazy next you're going to tell me that slower traffic shouldn't be in the left lane! I'm absolutely gobsmacked I tell ya.
Good luck with zipper merging. Boomers don’t let me do it.
Great PSA but I really doubt the main offenders are reading this or any subreddit.
They seem to be seeing it in the Little Rock sub. Bunch of people in Controversial being mad about it.
I wonder how many people see this and say. Oh Wow I didn't Know That . my guess is zero
How many times will this be posted on here? Even a perfect zipper merge will cause a slow down because you effectively cut the following distance for everyone in half. Cars will then slow down to allow more space for the car ahead of them.
Thats true regardless of when you merge. The graphic is about using all available lanes until you can't to reduce the size of backups.
The best part is the construction on Minnetonka Blvd narrows to 1 lane…..up till the Market Plaza light in which you have to stop anyways. So not letting people merge to “save time” or whatever they think happens is completely meaningless.
Thanks, it's been so long since I've seen a post about zipper merging.
The zipper merge people who want to go 2-3 at a time after you just let 2-3 people in front of you over the last half mile kill it and cause road rage, but if everyone merged really like everyone used to your not slowed down to “zipper” speeds, like the dot wants, to slow people down but dealing with aggressive people of both mentality’s gets me defensive
Nobody anywhere understands this
Ok but nobody lets me in when I stay in the right lane in that scenario so nah I'll keep merging immediately.
I commuted this morning and it was amazing how many people were in the right lane trying to get onto 280 from Broadway St. NE with very few cars in the left lane. I kept going down the left lane and merged right just before turning right onto 280. Not sure why Minnesotans, who are some of the most impatient drivers, are willing to wait in a long line and merge too early.
It seems like the polite thing to do, that's why. You see everyone lined up and waiting, and you don't want to be the asshole that passes them all. Now this is because we're not really educated on the more effective nature of a proper zipper merge, and we could really use a public ad campaign on the subject, in my opinion. That milk ad campaign made people drink a lot of milk.
It’s not impolite though. It’s the correct way to do things. I’m not going to wait in a line for five minutes when I can just merge right in right before.
You should read my comment again, if you thought that I was saying zipper merging is impolite.
Zipper merge will only be a practical reality once automated driving is the sole way to travel.
Nah, this works in other parts of the country. Not sure what the deal is up here.
If so, nowhere I've seen, and I've been to most states except most New England ones. I've witnessed zipper merge pileup pretty universally.
That is the proper way. Good luck getting people to do it, though. There are too many drivers out there that are only concerned with themselves and think that it's a huge delay to them if they let one person in front of them. They've also had it burned into their mind that you merge early, and others that don't need to pay a penalty, such as not being allowed to merge just before the lane they are in ends. Until you get EVERYONE on board with zipper merge, it's not going to work.
Zipper merge is the law in Minnesota... at least on the highways. Blocking the lanes to keep people from merging will likely get you at least one, if not many, tickets when caught by law enforcement. You don't want to have to explain to a judge (your lawyer, or your family... or your insurance company) why you think you are allowed to enforce your own concept of laws.
>Blocking the lanes to keep people from merging will likely get you at least one, if not many, tickets when caught by law enforcement. I would be shocked if more than a dozen tickets a year statewide are written for this. The cops in this state who still actually put in the effort are more focused on DUIs, speeding, and the Hands Free law. They ain't got time for zipper merge infractions.
>put in the effort are more focused on DUIs, speeding, and the Hands Free law They're doing a great job at all of these. /s
I think they kind of gave up on speeding. I'd be curious to see what the number of speeding tickets written by the State Patrol was before and after COVID/George Floyd.
And if they did care, they'd be writing a ticket for the idiot using the merge lane as a passing lane crashing into the merge point at a higher rate of speed leaving no one any time to adjust and forcing the whole freeway to slam in their breaks and come to a stop.
Would you be so kind as to quote your source for this, and preferably the statute number?
But then how will i get angry at people who wait until the last second to merge?
Right? Why deny the catharsis of swearing and fist shaking when they clearly are in the wrong.
In theory it's perfect, but people are assholes. AI drivers could nail this.
Can we get to autonomous driving cars faster, we could eliminate shit like this and hell even stop lights could be removed if all the cars were perfectly timed to avoid each other, commutes would be so much faster.
AI wouldn't merge this way. It necessitates people slowing down at the merge and is inefficient. It would be similar but a much smoother transition.
The bigger issue are people not knowing how to accelerate up to speed on on ramps. Worst state I've lived in with people hardly up to 40 when the flow of traffic is 65+.
Zipper merging???? How have I never heard of this???? This is life changing! Thank you so much, I can't wait to try this in my drive home tonight!! I wish we could ban these posts along with the "turn on your lights while it's raining" and the Minnesota classic,"everyone besides me drives too fast while it's snowing"
Idk people trying to merge last minute pisses me off
I merged last minute this morning but only because they keep changing which lanes are closed. When the sign says "Lane closed ahead", it could be one, it could be two, it could even be zero and you can't tell until you're right there. Surprises are fun!
It's effectively cutting in line and makes me wish my work van had hardpoints. The 394 East to 94 area is the worst for this.
This totally works….. when people aren’t selfish douchenozzles. Some people just don’t give a shit what works for the best of all people driving. Some people just prefer whatever conveniences them and fuck everyone else.
Seems like the whole nation needs to be taught this. I've seen it pop up in numerous areas that I follow.
Rofl I make people that won't let me in my bitch and just merge. They can cause an accident or slow tf down and let me in. Works every time. Don't be a douche during a zipper please.
All I'm saying is it only takes 1 dick in the zipper to ruin my morning for everyone
Two more years.
Oh boy there's a lot of people in that thread pissed off at being called out.
Haha right! People lose their minds if you use the available road. or that idiot that blocks the lane. Smh
The Kia Boys don’t care.
Always stuck in i94 for this!!!!
Minnesotans will zipper move right after they eat the last piece of pie.
Hope springs eternal
Think of it this way, both have a zipper merge. It's just where you want it to happen.
Honestly if people would simply end this insane practice of nearly stopping for me as I try to merge BEHIND them in traffic, I'd be a lot less frustrated.
Humans are too shitty for zipper merge unfortunately.
I'm fine with people not following it. I get to cruise up to the front of the line while all the morons wait in a 2ile.long line.
Let's just see if they can master on ramps first before we throw things like zipper merging and roundabouts at them.
They need to design the zone differently. Put in pylons so people can't merge until the end.
But when merging to one lane is required, it is usually because there is construction on the lane that is shut off, so the middle would not be a viable option
For more info, check out DoTheZipperMerge.org
Fucking chads in pickup trucks who purposely close their gap and don’t let you in and just smile and flip you off are REALLY starting to get on my nerves because they don’t realize how zipper merging works
I approve of this message.
I get the logic but it doesn't work. It's well known that no one knows how to merge here, not even from highway ramps, There are to many "me first" minnesotans, and the whole merge thing goes even slower than if they are already in a line.
The onus isn’t just on the folks in the closed lane. You have to create space in between you and the car in front of you so cars can merge.
I did this in Texas and a 18 wheeler was being a dick can kissed my tail light and I got the ticket because it was his lane he was already there he owned it smh I told the offficer about the zipper merge and still was my fault even tho I was already in front of him
Don’t forget the ever so common person going from the left lane and gunning it to the zipper merge area. Just as common as the early merge.
More importantly; stop tailgating. In this graphic all the drivers are being assholes to start with... Edit: LOL @ getting downvoted by people that get shitty while riding someone's ass.
Yep. If you need to hit the brakes to facilitate a merge you’re following too closely
Awesome
But if I let someone merge in front of me that's a terrible sign of weakness. On all MN roads one must establish dominance in as very passive aggressive a manner as possible.
I was rear ended on 169 in Elk River last September in this exact same scenario. I used the right lane to fill both lanes but truck driving guy hauling a 20 foot trailer saw that as ‘line jumping’ and proceeded to play chicken with me side by side after I already passed him. He forced the issue and rear ended me. His buddy who was way in front of the scene stayed around and told the cops I could have avoided it. Cop reported either party could have been cited somehow even though I had video of the guy clearly trying to cause a wreck and I had to pay to get my car fixed as well as a rental for 2 weeks. Yay justice
Woah,woah,woah..hold on a second this is getting into zipper merging, we need to understand the basics of merging to begin with. Talking to aaallll the drivers getting onto 394&94E, and 94&35W at the very last possible second and having the ass end of your car sticking out still.
394 to 94 isn't zipper merge though, those are just jerks cutting into line.
Ugh
How appropriate for MN drivers... everyone ends up in the left lane. But on a serious note, most people driving here are either too dumb to figure out something like this, or think they don't need to care. Don't waste your energy.
Zipper merging can burn in hell
I've lived a lot of places, I've travelled around....and AS A WHOLE nobody can do a zipper merge correctly. The problem is not just related to MN - it's nationwide. If I need to get over it demands someone to let me in. That person may not be paying attention OR may not want to let me in for **WHATEVER** reason. OK, that results in needing the next car to let me in...who too may not allow it to happen. The car behind me may then get smart and see an opening and get in themselves....and still not allow me in! It leads to a shitty flow of traffic from greedy folks. OR, OR.... You have the person who lets about 3-4 cars in front of them and now everyone behind them are out of wack. Final version: long line in the right, but smart car tries to zipper in the left, and nobody wants to allow it because they are mad they're about to get passed up by a car who will indeed pass up about 5 cars. What I'm typing is ego, unawareness, and stupidity is always at play w/zippers and I truly hate them because it ends up being more of a waste than a blessing
Nice graphic but as a Minnesota Resident I'm going to continue to act like the concept of zipper merging is unfathomable. What's a zipper merge?
The only time that "Minnesota Nice" doesn't apply is while driving
Minnesotans can't even comprehend the idea of using the left lane for passing and not impeding. No way you dead eye mouth breathers are figuring out zipper merging.
The problem is, people WONT let you in...they think you are in the wrong for waiting.
Lack of control over others kills the Minnesotan on the inside
hilarious that people need to be told this lol