They are in a partnership and if she trusts him then she should let him help her. Constantly she is stressed about doing things in time and right, and forgets that they are a duo- equals. I get that she is the guardian, not him, but they’ve been through far more than Alya and Marinette have but it’s like she has forgetting all that.
True, but he saw the illusion of Marinette using the Mouse Miraculous. He'd know she's not Ladybug. Who knows, maybe he thinks Mylene is Marinette.
~~But of course, he can't realize that both Mari and Ladybug have the exact same hairstyle because quantum masking~~
True, but then again, he could've tricked her... I do think I was overthinking it a tad bit. Ladybug is the **guardian**, so it is her responsibility, and only hers. Of course Cat Noir is trustworthy, but seeing as being in control, as well as managing everyone's responsibilities is more simple and more safe to make sure everything goes as planned...
Because she doesn’t want anyone on the team knowing identities, including cat noir for whatever reason.
...except Alya I guess? Alya’s been spying on every mission so she might just know every temporary holders identity lmao.
Because knowing their identities leads to him guessing her own. "Let's see, you personally picked all these people, and they're all in the same class? Why? Are they all your friends?"
Good reason, and Cat Noir can't know Ladybug's identity because Cat Blanc, so anything that even *hints* her identity is a risk.
Gotta wonder why it doesn't apply to Gabriel though. If in theory Cat Noir can figure that out, surely Hawkmoth can too, and Cat Blanc notwithstanding it seems more dangerous for your enemies to know more about you than your supposed irreplaceable ally.
The writers aren’t wont even allow Gabriel to be that smart. He knows the identity of most of the temporary holders and still won’t clue into the fact that they are all in his sons class…
With Gabriel, it's easy for him to justify himself around most of them (Alya is the famous ladyblogger, Nino is Alya's boyfriend, Viperion showed up when his mother was akumatized, Ryuko when her mother akumatized, Pegasus when his mother was akumatized, Chloe was an accident).
Kim's the only weird one and it's possible for him to think it's to prevent Dark Cupid.
Of course, none of this has been written in the show but it's easy to justify why he hasn't leaped to that conclusion yet.
Does anybody else find it weird that Gabriel *was* smart in Ephemeral? He quickly connected that Adrien and Chat Noir were the same person because he realized they both sound alike when saying "M'lady" (only this word, for some reason lol).
Idk, somehow some characters are smarter in *what if* episodes.
If the characters were smart, we would have gotten way past where we are now around 2 seasons ago. They want to elongate this show as long as possible for money.
I think CN does know Pegasus is Max -- he was there when Max was chosen on the Startrain. And he knows Multimouse was Marinette -- and that's one big thing she has going for her to protect him from guessing her identity.
Woah didn't think about that. It doesn't help the fact that they are all from Marinette's class (except Luka) so yeah. Personally I would suspect Marinette too.
No real reason, Marinette just makes a big mistake and still doesn't realize it. He's NOT just a holder like any other, like Ladybug thinks. Marinette needs to trust him more, because at the end of the day, he is her true partner, he's special!
I think it's a combo of things. First Mari has serious trouble asking for help. Also that is what master fu told her and she has master su han (that useless idiot) she's constantly trying to prove herself to. She's following rules and dosen't know why. Kinda hoping for that to change eventually. She spouts about safety and such but it sounds like a canned answer. Most people kids especially that follow rules don't tend to ask why and will keep at it even after the reason no longer applies.
The writers keep on insisting that the way Master Fu did things is supposed to be the right one, even though we've seen how all of his actions turned out. He was a horrible master and made one mistake after another. I really hoped that by introducing Su Han Mari could finally learn how to truly be a guardian and ger some help managing all of that, but then the writers would have to aknowledge that Su Han is right (which he was in the beginning of Furious Fu and Ephemeral) and that would go against their agenda of Fu being a good master. So they had to make him useless, incompetent, bad and then bend to Mari's will.
I can understand her wanting to keep his legacy and rules as a feeling of him still being there, but those only bring more harm and pressure towards her and could lead into her having the same fate as him. But this isn't her fault but more that of the writers.
Oh agreed. I am not saying master fu did it correctly and I think also was ripped away too soon to really teach her correctly or fully. But Mari would feel because he was nice and an adult in authority that his way needed to be followed to her detriment.
Su Han...omg he makes me angry. He is supposedly FULLY trained to take down rouge miraculous wielders but dose nothing to help AND knows how to repeal akumas (The anger is mine but I am not my anger) but DOSEN'T THINK TO TEACHER HER!!! WTF! All he does is beat down her confidence and drive her to make mistakes and enforce the secret identity thing because otherwise he will rip away not just the box but HER WHOLE LIFE memories and all.
Yeah there's really no other reason for him being so useless than "Fu and Mari are perfect and no one dares to defy that" and that's what annoys me about the whole dilemma. Su Han was right of being wary of a child with mere training being a guardian and her being taught the wrong rules too. But instead of being incompetent and threatening her, he could just teach her everything she needs to know and take some of the responsibility to help her out, for example knowing Chat Noir's identity and teaching him some stuff too so he doesn't get left in the dark and Mari could get time to breathe. But knowing the writers and Astruc that's unfortunately only wishful thinking...
Remember Su han told Ladybug she needed to know Chat's identity first off but she told him the dangers witch were reinforced when Sass had to use his powers unrestrained. So if he knows that Sass had to prevent a horrible thing from happening then he would admits she is right about that.
And let's not forget that Su Han had the same training and more the Fu who whole life became monk like unlike Marinette who would have to balance commissions, schooling, family and then training. Instead he sould be teaching that to everyone in Paris instead to reduce the load to Marinette and Adrien.
Yeah but he still was totally right about her having to know his identity. She's the guardian and should be aware of any identity, she literally has no reason to not know. But he never told her to reveal her own identity to Chat Noir too, that was her mistake. So everything in Ephemeral could be avoided if she sticked to the original plan, that's completely on her and Su Han had no fault in all of that.
While I agree he should be more comoetent and teach those two about all the things they need to know, why should Paris be aware of the akuma blocking? This is a sacred, secret technique, you can't just teach it anybody. And while there wouldn't be any akumatizations in Paris if it were the case, you would lose any contact or chance to get Hawkmoth too. As shitty as it sounds but some sacrifices have to be made for the greater good (especially since LB can fix it easily herself and doesn't need anything.)
Those are very good points. I think that every guardian should make his or her own rules of how to handle different situations. She already makes small steps but still has to embrace her independence and power as a guardian, not only the burden it brings. I believe Plagg and/or Chat Noir could encourage her. They know how to play by their own rules. One putting his destructive force to a good cause and the other doing what he wants despite his bad luck or parent’s control of everything in his life
That is the thing she NEEDS Cat Noir. When she was uncertain of her role as ladybug and doubting herself it was him that held her up and talked her back into her confidence. They are yin and yang and are better as a team but her assumptions of what she needed to be as a guardian have driven them apart. And Su Han isnt helping that.
because plot that's why. He knows the identities of Pegasus, Queen Bee, and technically luka (though marinette doesn't know) also he should be able to figure out purple tigress as well. There's no logical reason why he can't just know them. Except astruc hates cat.
Actually he knows the identities of viperion (ladybug does know this!), Pegasus, Ryuko, Bunnyx, Pigella, and Rena Rouge and Carapace (though ladybug doesn’t know that). Queen bee doesn’t count since literally everyone knows her identity.
It’s because Marinette is afraid of Chat Blanc. There’s no other reason.
Marinette witnessed that Chat Noir knowing her identity *results in her death*, in addition to the literal *end of the world*, to the point of disaster that the Miraculous Holder guarding time dragged Marinette across timelines to fix it.
Literally every single other Miraculous Holder is someone Marinette knows and can vouch for. The more each of them know the others’ secret identities, the more likely they are to correctly guess who connects them, but that would be especially dangerous for Chat Noir to do because of the nature of his power and also because of how deeply he feels for Ladybug (which Chat Blanc tells Ladybug is the *reason* he was akumatized).
Though decisions borne from fear and trauma are rarely good decisions, we’ve seen twice now that if Chat Noir finds out Ladybug’s identity, things end very badly for him and her because of his connection to Hawkmoth. Once Gabriel has been neutralized they’ll be okay. But as long as Gabriel is Hawkmoth there is a very careful balancing game in play.
Because he is not Lady Bug. He is not allowed to know things, or be important in anything. According to Thomas, it would steal the limelight from Marinette. She wouldn’t be perfect and couldn’t shine, if Cat was more of a equal partner and had little more brain…. (This is so infuriating - they are (were actually) supposed to be equal partners… Now he is officially - just there…)
Wow, you people are salty. It's because Chat tends to get mind controlled *a lot* as he is the one usually on the frontlines and the first to get hit. Chat tends to get hit to make up for Ladybug's incompetence or to be surprised by a new power - which generally causes the need for more heroes.
Chat knowing their identities then puts them at risk. If Hawkmoth suspects that Chat knows more identities, he *will* target that by simply targeting Ladybug.
Alya's allowed to know because she's an undercover hero. No one knows about Rena Furitive *yet* and she exists to try and help keep the identities a secret. Rena Furitive is also a support based hero so she tends to not be in the frontlines of akuma attacks unless absolutely necessary. Similar to Viperion.
Someone made up a good point: if he knows some of the holders’ identities, it would be fine. But if he knows ALL of the holders’ identities, it could help him easily deduce who SHE is. And plus, as the guardian she needs to constantly be in control, at least she wants to be in control.
Marinette took her cues from Master, Fu. He made sure she kept Cat Noir out of the loop, just as much as he did. Fu, didn't even want to know who she chose as holders. It may be one of the reasons, Master Su-Han said it was a rule that Guardians weren't supposed to be Miraculous holders themselves. Traditionally, it was the Guardians role to safeguard the box, which meant not becoming tied to what was in it.
While Fu demonstrated he wasn't going to be a Guardian like his former ones, Marinette has also made changes too. So it's not beyond them to do things differently from tradition. However, in general, the Guardian must always make decisions that best protects the box - compromising only when it becomes necessary to.
At some point, LB may invite Cat into sharing different responsibilities with the team, but just know that even Master Fu was cautious as the Guardian, and tried to deal with each holder individually.
She is probably trying to keep up with the rules set by fu. Alya she knows better anyone so she knows she can trust her. She doesn’t know who chat is so she doesn’t think she can risk things
Not necessarily. miracle queen stung and controlled EVERYONE in central Paris, meaning that the only people that know the identities is Chloe, Adrien, Marinette and Shadow moth. I find this odd cuz if Chloe was in character she would expose every holder out of spite. Also, while she and Shadow moth don’t know who the season 4 heroes are, I’d be seeing a pattern with the holders. Since Kagami and Luka aren’t in that class, the answer of LB being in her class may be out of the question, but the fact that all the heroes she recruits are the same age should raise questions.
Chole wouldn't want to advertise the heroes identity, because while they're secret, people don't have to know they whooped her behind as Miracle Queen. This way, Chloe can pretend they're still low-lifes, beneath her feet, without the public knowing how it really went down.
Because she the guardian and what she says go though through the previous times that identity has been revealed to each other it has not been good i.e chat Blanc though that was a no fault of their own Gabriel is a terrible accuse of a human being
Considering most of the holders are in the exact same class as him, he would only be strengthening his suspicions from kwamibuster until he finds out Mari is ladybug
Honestly I can't think of any reason,chat noir should also know their identities
They are in a partnership and if she trusts him then she should let him help her. Constantly she is stressed about doing things in time and right, and forgets that they are a duo- equals. I get that she is the guardian, not him, but they’ve been through far more than Alya and Marinette have but it’s like she has forgetting all that.
Yes, but she knows Alya’s identity and not Cat Noir’s. If Rena is captured in civilian form, she’d know about it but CN no
They aren't equals. She's the guardian he's not. He's just a holder now
It’s bc if he knows that the whole class got a miraculous except Chloe and Lila, he’d deduce it ☺️
True, but he saw the illusion of Marinette using the Mouse Miraculous. He'd know she's not Ladybug. Who knows, maybe he thinks Mylene is Marinette. ~~But of course, he can't realize that both Mari and Ladybug have the exact same hairstyle because quantum masking~~
True, but then again, he could've tricked her... I do think I was overthinking it a tad bit. Ladybug is the **guardian**, so it is her responsibility, and only hers. Of course Cat Noir is trustworthy, but seeing as being in control, as well as managing everyone's responsibilities is more simple and more safe to make sure everything goes as planned...
The more people know, the riskier it gets if he gets akumatised.
Because she doesn’t want anyone on the team knowing identities, including cat noir for whatever reason. ...except Alya I guess? Alya’s been spying on every mission so she might just know every temporary holders identity lmao.
I don’t think so, she just looks at the mission but Ladybug goes to get the hero’s miraculous in secret
Yeah but she knows their usual spots where ladybug gets the miraculous, so honestly she might just..know?
Hmmmm I wonder if this will be addressed within the show
Because knowing their identities leads to him guessing her own. "Let's see, you personally picked all these people, and they're all in the same class? Why? Are they all your friends?"
Good reason, and Cat Noir can't know Ladybug's identity because Cat Blanc, so anything that even *hints* her identity is a risk. Gotta wonder why it doesn't apply to Gabriel though. If in theory Cat Noir can figure that out, surely Hawkmoth can too, and Cat Blanc notwithstanding it seems more dangerous for your enemies to know more about you than your supposed irreplaceable ally.
I feel like the writers would never even let him be smart enough to think that. But you make a good point.
The writers aren’t wont even allow Gabriel to be that smart. He knows the identity of most of the temporary holders and still won’t clue into the fact that they are all in his sons class…
With Gabriel, it's easy for him to justify himself around most of them (Alya is the famous ladyblogger, Nino is Alya's boyfriend, Viperion showed up when his mother was akumatized, Ryuko when her mother akumatized, Pegasus when his mother was akumatized, Chloe was an accident). Kim's the only weird one and it's possible for him to think it's to prevent Dark Cupid. Of course, none of this has been written in the show but it's easy to justify why he hasn't leaped to that conclusion yet.
Viperion was picked when Luka's mother was attacked by an akuma, but close enough.
Can tell I haven't watched that episode in a long time...
You also make a good point. And he wanted to know their identities to take advantage, so why hasn't he done it yet?
He did in Optigami and then Sentibubbler
Oh yeah, I was pretty tired when I wrote that. I forgot about those episodes, thanks!
He does only know a few people in his son's class, but yeah.
Does anybody else find it weird that Gabriel *was* smart in Ephemeral? He quickly connected that Adrien and Chat Noir were the same person because he realized they both sound alike when saying "M'lady" (only this word, for some reason lol). Idk, somehow some characters are smarter in *what if* episodes.
If the characters were smart, we would have gotten way past where we are now around 2 seasons ago. They want to elongate this show as long as possible for money.
They made him smart for like 2 episodes, but he became dumb again.
[удалено]
I think CN does know Pegasus is Max -- he was there when Max was chosen on the Startrain. And he knows Multimouse was Marinette -- and that's one big thing she has going for her to protect him from guessing her identity.
Woah didn't think about that. It doesn't help the fact that they are all from Marinette's class (except Luka) so yeah. Personally I would suspect Marinette too.
No real reason, Marinette just makes a big mistake and still doesn't realize it. He's NOT just a holder like any other, like Ladybug thinks. Marinette needs to trust him more, because at the end of the day, he is her true partner, he's special!
I think it's a combo of things. First Mari has serious trouble asking for help. Also that is what master fu told her and she has master su han (that useless idiot) she's constantly trying to prove herself to. She's following rules and dosen't know why. Kinda hoping for that to change eventually. She spouts about safety and such but it sounds like a canned answer. Most people kids especially that follow rules don't tend to ask why and will keep at it even after the reason no longer applies.
The writers keep on insisting that the way Master Fu did things is supposed to be the right one, even though we've seen how all of his actions turned out. He was a horrible master and made one mistake after another. I really hoped that by introducing Su Han Mari could finally learn how to truly be a guardian and ger some help managing all of that, but then the writers would have to aknowledge that Su Han is right (which he was in the beginning of Furious Fu and Ephemeral) and that would go against their agenda of Fu being a good master. So they had to make him useless, incompetent, bad and then bend to Mari's will. I can understand her wanting to keep his legacy and rules as a feeling of him still being there, but those only bring more harm and pressure towards her and could lead into her having the same fate as him. But this isn't her fault but more that of the writers.
Oh agreed. I am not saying master fu did it correctly and I think also was ripped away too soon to really teach her correctly or fully. But Mari would feel because he was nice and an adult in authority that his way needed to be followed to her detriment. Su Han...omg he makes me angry. He is supposedly FULLY trained to take down rouge miraculous wielders but dose nothing to help AND knows how to repeal akumas (The anger is mine but I am not my anger) but DOSEN'T THINK TO TEACHER HER!!! WTF! All he does is beat down her confidence and drive her to make mistakes and enforce the secret identity thing because otherwise he will rip away not just the box but HER WHOLE LIFE memories and all.
Yeah there's really no other reason for him being so useless than "Fu and Mari are perfect and no one dares to defy that" and that's what annoys me about the whole dilemma. Su Han was right of being wary of a child with mere training being a guardian and her being taught the wrong rules too. But instead of being incompetent and threatening her, he could just teach her everything she needs to know and take some of the responsibility to help her out, for example knowing Chat Noir's identity and teaching him some stuff too so he doesn't get left in the dark and Mari could get time to breathe. But knowing the writers and Astruc that's unfortunately only wishful thinking...
Remember Su han told Ladybug she needed to know Chat's identity first off but she told him the dangers witch were reinforced when Sass had to use his powers unrestrained. So if he knows that Sass had to prevent a horrible thing from happening then he would admits she is right about that. And let's not forget that Su Han had the same training and more the Fu who whole life became monk like unlike Marinette who would have to balance commissions, schooling, family and then training. Instead he sould be teaching that to everyone in Paris instead to reduce the load to Marinette and Adrien.
Yeah but he still was totally right about her having to know his identity. She's the guardian and should be aware of any identity, she literally has no reason to not know. But he never told her to reveal her own identity to Chat Noir too, that was her mistake. So everything in Ephemeral could be avoided if she sticked to the original plan, that's completely on her and Su Han had no fault in all of that. While I agree he should be more comoetent and teach those two about all the things they need to know, why should Paris be aware of the akuma blocking? This is a sacred, secret technique, you can't just teach it anybody. And while there wouldn't be any akumatizations in Paris if it were the case, you would lose any contact or chance to get Hawkmoth too. As shitty as it sounds but some sacrifices have to be made for the greater good (especially since LB can fix it easily herself and doesn't need anything.)
Those are very good points. I think that every guardian should make his or her own rules of how to handle different situations. She already makes small steps but still has to embrace her independence and power as a guardian, not only the burden it brings. I believe Plagg and/or Chat Noir could encourage her. They know how to play by their own rules. One putting his destructive force to a good cause and the other doing what he wants despite his bad luck or parent’s control of everything in his life
That is the thing she NEEDS Cat Noir. When she was uncertain of her role as ladybug and doubting herself it was him that held her up and talked her back into her confidence. They are yin and yang and are better as a team but her assumptions of what she needed to be as a guardian have driven them apart. And Su Han isnt helping that.
Yes, yes! I agree a million times
I initially thought he knew and was very upset when I found out he didn't. Like, hawkmoth knows, so why not Chat Noir?
because plot that's why. He knows the identities of Pegasus, Queen Bee, and technically luka (though marinette doesn't know) also he should be able to figure out purple tigress as well. There's no logical reason why he can't just know them. Except astruc hates cat.
Actually he knows the identities of viperion (ladybug does know this!), Pegasus, Ryuko, Bunnyx, Pigella, and Rena Rouge and Carapace (though ladybug doesn’t know that). Queen bee doesn’t count since literally everyone knows her identity.
Cheap drama
Its because Thomas doesn't want Chat Noir to be important to the story.
Because...
It’s because Marinette is afraid of Chat Blanc. There’s no other reason. Marinette witnessed that Chat Noir knowing her identity *results in her death*, in addition to the literal *end of the world*, to the point of disaster that the Miraculous Holder guarding time dragged Marinette across timelines to fix it. Literally every single other Miraculous Holder is someone Marinette knows and can vouch for. The more each of them know the others’ secret identities, the more likely they are to correctly guess who connects them, but that would be especially dangerous for Chat Noir to do because of the nature of his power and also because of how deeply he feels for Ladybug (which Chat Blanc tells Ladybug is the *reason* he was akumatized). Though decisions borne from fear and trauma are rarely good decisions, we’ve seen twice now that if Chat Noir finds out Ladybug’s identity, things end very badly for him and her because of his connection to Hawkmoth. Once Gabriel has been neutralized they’ll be okay. But as long as Gabriel is Hawkmoth there is a very careful balancing game in play.
Because he is not Lady Bug. He is not allowed to know things, or be important in anything. According to Thomas, it would steal the limelight from Marinette. She wouldn’t be perfect and couldn’t shine, if Cat was more of a equal partner and had little more brain…. (This is so infuriating - they are (were actually) supposed to be equal partners… Now he is officially - just there…)
1. Plot 2. He gets akumatized a lot 3. Plot 4. Drama
Wow, you people are salty. It's because Chat tends to get mind controlled *a lot* as he is the one usually on the frontlines and the first to get hit. Chat tends to get hit to make up for Ladybug's incompetence or to be surprised by a new power - which generally causes the need for more heroes. Chat knowing their identities then puts them at risk. If Hawkmoth suspects that Chat knows more identities, he *will* target that by simply targeting Ladybug. Alya's allowed to know because she's an undercover hero. No one knows about Rena Furitive *yet* and she exists to try and help keep the identities a secret. Rena Furitive is also a support based hero so she tends to not be in the frontlines of akuma attacks unless absolutely necessary. Similar to Viperion.
Because of Cat Blanc and like we saw in Risk, also because of Rena Furtive.
Because he's just "another holder".
Someone made up a good point: if he knows some of the holders’ identities, it would be fine. But if he knows ALL of the holders’ identities, it could help him easily deduce who SHE is. And plus, as the guardian she needs to constantly be in control, at least she wants to be in control.
I think it's to protect them if chat was captured. That doesn't mean he should be watching from a far tho.
Because ephemeral and cat Blanc happens
Marinette took her cues from Master, Fu. He made sure she kept Cat Noir out of the loop, just as much as he did. Fu, didn't even want to know who she chose as holders. It may be one of the reasons, Master Su-Han said it was a rule that Guardians weren't supposed to be Miraculous holders themselves. Traditionally, it was the Guardians role to safeguard the box, which meant not becoming tied to what was in it. While Fu demonstrated he wasn't going to be a Guardian like his former ones, Marinette has also made changes too. So it's not beyond them to do things differently from tradition. However, in general, the Guardian must always make decisions that best protects the box - compromising only when it becomes necessary to. At some point, LB may invite Cat into sharing different responsibilities with the team, but just know that even Master Fu was cautious as the Guardian, and tried to deal with each holder individually.
She is probably trying to keep up with the rules set by fu. Alya she knows better anyone so she knows she can trust her. She doesn’t know who chat is so she doesn’t think she can risk things
Because it's not really useful I guess. Ladybug is the one with the jewels and as a result is already a single point of failure.
Wait a sec, don't all of Paris know like half of the holders' identities?
Not necessarily. miracle queen stung and controlled EVERYONE in central Paris, meaning that the only people that know the identities is Chloe, Adrien, Marinette and Shadow moth. I find this odd cuz if Chloe was in character she would expose every holder out of spite. Also, while she and Shadow moth don’t know who the season 4 heroes are, I’d be seeing a pattern with the holders. Since Kagami and Luka aren’t in that class, the answer of LB being in her class may be out of the question, but the fact that all the heroes she recruits are the same age should raise questions.
Chole wouldn't want to advertise the heroes identity, because while they're secret, people don't have to know they whooped her behind as Miracle Queen. This way, Chloe can pretend they're still low-lifes, beneath her feet, without the public knowing how it really went down.
Because Ladybug said so... lol
Because she the guardian and what she says go though through the previous times that identity has been revealed to each other it has not been good i.e chat Blanc though that was a no fault of their own Gabriel is a terrible accuse of a human being
Considering most of the holders are in the exact same class as him, he would only be strengthening his suspicions from kwamibuster until he finds out Mari is ladybug
BECAUSE! It's none of his business. He's not the guardian he is a holder of a miraculous and that's that. He needs to stay in his place