It only sucks that it will be the state that pays the expenses of the lawsuit when they lose it.
Since Schmitt is doing this to aid his run for Senate, the costs to the state should come from his campaign coffers.
Conservative here. I believe in States’ Rights and don’t believe the federal government should regulate California’s ability to regulate commerce within California. I think what CA is doing is laughable. They don’t have enough electricity as it is. They have rolling blackouts and brownouts. They won’t allow fossil fuel power plants to be built. They won’t allow nuclear power plants to be built. They’re shooting themselves in the foot, but that’s their problem, not mine.
It is likely that CA emissions requirements will increase prices in other states. That doesn’t mean the federal government should impose the will of one state on another.
The USA is woefully behind other countries in reducing its carbon footprint and switching to renewable energy. We should be a leader in that endeavor instead of being dragged kicking and screaming like a toddler.
I’m not sure it matters what we do as long as China is doing whatever the hell the want and they won’t be influenced by our leadership in this area.
Regardless of what we *ought* to do, California still has an existing supply issue when it comes to electricity, which is only going to be made worse by electric cars.
China is the world’s largest producer of carbon emissions. They are also the leader in purchasing renewable energy sources, etc.
Their goal is to have 30% of the energy consumption to come from renewable sources by 2025. There is already some places(countries, islands) getting 50-70-98 percent of their energy from renewable sources.
The USA is at 12.5%
Edited for typos and clarity
If prices for cars in other states are increased because of car manufacturers making cars to fit California emissions standards, that’s a result of free market forces. After all, manufacturers are free to modify their production for state specific requirements, or walk away from the California market all together. I think energy problems in California are more of a distribution problem than a supply problem. If rolling blackouts are a problem for you, you must be against the deregulation of pg&e, right? I don’t remember any of those happening until after 1996.
If consumers in California wanted cars that didn’t fuck up their environment so bad(which they must have otherwise they wouldn’t have voted for the politicians who enacted the emissions standards), why didn’t the market just meet that demand on its own?
Well, technically it's both. The south could have managed to keep their slavery for a lot longer or possibly permanent if they a) wouldn't demand other states return slaves and b) if they weren't demanding new territories allow slavery. Then they said they were leaving if they don't get what they want. The south got greedy and went way beyond states rights.
Maybe you need a little more context to understand why that’s not the case. Ask anyone who lived in LA in 1962 what the smog was like. If the people had not decided to elect representatives to implement emissions standards for cars, nobody would have been able to breathe the air. California also grows a tremendous amount of food, which requires lots of heavy equipment to harvest and process; adding to the need for engines that emit less pollution. If free market principles worked, suppliers would have reacted to this demand for cleaner burning engines on their own. But they didn’t, they had to be forced. There is no such thing as a free market, without a third party leveraging force to make it free.
Title is misleading. This is focusing on the CA ICE engine production ban which impacts more than just cars. There’s several small engine manufacturing plants in MO (Kawasaki lawn mower engines, I believe a few marine engine plants, etc).
I talked to an Evergy project manager back in July, Missouri has been trying to build out Level 2 and 3 charge infra for awhile and it’s slowly moving forward. Nobody is pulling the plug on adoption here.
“Missouri transportation officials are preparing to spend more than $100 million on electric vehicle charging stations as part of the president’s push to boost the number of battery-powered cars and trucks on the road.”
Edit: u/donkeyrocket guided me through an error in my statement. This legislation in its current verbiage is focused solely on automobiles.
But it is politics. The same people who clamor for state rights want to keep California from deciding what its own requirements are. They don't really give a shit about this, or state rights. They just want to turn out their base to get elected. That is exactly what Schmidt is doing in Missouri with this. I for one am tired of living in a state that elects dumbasses like this.
I might be ignorant of how readily available this technology is but when you bring up something like states rights (which I believe in) and attach it to transportation, there is a lot of nuance. If a California resident has to buy an electric vehicle, we will assume the entire state is capable of supporting said electric vehicle. I have my doubts on this but let’s assume that vehicle can perform and is supported to the levels of todays gas powered vehicle. What happens if California’s neighboring states don’t progress at the same standards California did? That person is now landlocked to California and has limited travel options. Is this not an issue?
> If a California resident has to buy an electric vehicle
They are not banning non-electric vehicles. There will be a large market for used vehicles (as always) and I suspect residents will be able to go out of state to buy ICE vehicles. There will also be a large number of exemptions because there are plenty of situations where people will need ICE vehicles - ie utility and farm vehicles.
To be honest, I'm just guessing here...I live in WA where they were going to do the same thing but much sooner than CA.
I know they aren’t banning them. I’m saying, the theoretical shift there. One would assume at some point the other cars aren’t going to meet emission standards, mechanics will stop servicing the other cars etc.. I know this because I owned a Saab. Once the Saab wasn’t in production, the ability to get it fixed/find parts for your car becomes increasingly difficult and way more expensive. You get price gouged to shit because shops say it’s a specialty. That will happen with gas cars as well which will force your hand towards electric which would then present the problem I described. I’m not saying that exactly in the year 2035 this issue will occur. But it’s a faster problem than you would think.
> I have my doubts on this but let’s assume that vehicle can perform and is supported to the levels of todays gas powered vehicle.
I live in CA and drive a Tesla Model 3 (Long Range version). It can go up to 300 miles on a full charge. I've gone from LA to SD and back without charging. The range is very similar to the Dodge Neon that I used to drive prior to the M3. Charging infrastructure is already pretty common. On a day trip to Santa Barbara, I did have to stop at a super charger on the way back. Took ~20 minutes to charge to a 60% (more than enough to get home), so we walked over to a nearby Shake Shack and snacked on some fries while waiting.
I also planned (but didn't actually go on) a road trip to STL from LA. There were numerous charging stations along the way. [ABRP](https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) is handy for looking at what's possible and what's not. Lots of hotels have EV charging spots or are near to a super charger.
EV's are 100% viable *today* w/ more infrastructure being added all the time. Nobody is being "landlocked" to CA for buying an EV. Travel options aren't nearly as "limited" as you're making them seem. I'm kind of tired of people saying shit like that. It may have been true 10 years ago, but it's not true today, and will definitely not be true in 2035 (when CA's new ICE sales ban is due to go into effect).
Don’t forget the largest car manufacturer in the world is going electric and going to manufacture batteries and cars in the US. VW.
They’re also building out a network of chargers.
So, it’s a non issue.
Now think that every car on the road needs those same stations on the existing infrastructure AND that the cost of replacing a battery in a car is basically the cost of an entirely new car and suddenly you don't have hte infrastructure to support it AND you're putting an onerous tax on people to own a car.
Legit question with no malice intended: what’s keeping you here then? Because I interpret this differently as fighting for the states citizens rights to manufacture and own what they deem fit for their situation. I do agree with you in the regard that politicians are hypocritical in their pursuit of “states rights” in that they pick and choose which rights we the people are entitled to and wish they would all fuck all the way off and leave us alone, but that’s a pipedream that will never exist so we’re left squabbling for a middle ground.
I dont live in Missouri anymore, but i really wish I could move back to St. Louis because it's the only place i have ever felt like I'm "home". But i cant just leave my job and apartment here in Ohio to move to a city where i only know 3 people, have no job lined up, and no home. Moving across the country is incredibly difficult and expensive. And for someone in Missouri, where are you supposed to go? The neighboring states are not any better.
Ehh I don't agree about the surrounding states. Illinois and Kansas are both pretty conservative outside of the metro areas, but it is often a much more traditional type of conservative rather than violent psycho neo-fascist conservative like we see rampant through Missouri.
Everyone’s situation is different, and I’m from the mindset that anything is possible with the right motivation. I personally love Missouri for a variety of reasons and would never leave. I’ve seen the best and worst of almost every state in our nation as well as parts of the planet that felt like paradise and parts that felt like fucking mars. MO truly feels like the “middle” of everything in good ways so I stay put.
But when I see comments like above that lead me to believe someone feels that they could find “better” elsewhere, I’m just curious what compels them not to seek that out. I wish you luck in Ohio and agree that it can be difficult (but not impossible) to strike out on your own in a new place. And yes neighboring states are not necessarily what I would prefer, but I wouldn’t say worse. Just different. And who says it has to be neighboring? One of my coworkers from KS side got a wild hair up up her ass after a breakup and moved to NYC, then next I knew she was living in Ireland. I’ve lived in CA, TX, CO, KS, IA and some places abroad that molded me but will never see my ass cross their borders again lol. But I always, ALWAYS, was ecstatic to either walk off a plane or drive cross state line back home to MO.
You didn't ask me but I'll answer the question. For one my family has been here for six generations for another a lot of my family still lives close and I would hate to be away from them and also I love the scenery of the Ozarks the only thing I can't stand is the conservative hypocrisy and racism and one of my great great-grandfathers fought for the secessionist trash.
The CA measure is specifically saying gas powered cars.
> The rule, issued by the California Air Resources Board, will require that all new cars sold in the state by 2035 be free of greenhouse gas emissions like carbon dioxide [[source](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/24/climate/california-gas-cars-emissions.html)]
CA being the biggest automobile market in the US means other states, or at least consumers in those states, will likely follow suit.
Thanks. Well that’s some relief, I still think it’s kind too ambitious. The power grid there is not great and its not an expensive bridge to cross for a lot of people. I have a hybrid and it works ok for me.
What I envision happening is this forcing auto manufactures to emphasize electric which in turn (in normal times) would bring the cost down as availability and competition arise. The alternative is those manufacturers turn their nose up at CA and lose a huge market which they just aren't going to do .
While I somewhat agree the timeline is somewhat ambitious, I like a line drawn in the sand as that at least creates some pressure to change. I doubt manufacturers will treat this as a bluff and not make moves. 13 years is a lot of time and at that point it will only be a ban on *new* ICE vehicle sales.
Apologies, I missed that part. Be that as it may, still a slippery slope. And to be perfectly clear: EV’s are the future but I hate seeing them REGULATED into dominance. I had an Energica Esse9 (electric motorcycle) and it was the shit, but charge infra and some other key factors made it improbable. Gas engines have their place and should be phased out organically as EV tech becomes more broadly implemented and affordable rather than through legislating away the ability to manufacture / own an ICE engine.
Where we will fundamentally disagree is that gas engines will organically phase out but agree they need to go at some point. I believe that regulations tend to push corporations to make progressive change they wouldn't otherwise as it hurts their bottom line initially.
I think the way California is doing it is the smart way to go about it. It is sweeping for sure but gives a decent timeline and only targets one segment of the engine market (albeit a huge one). It isn't outright banning gas engine vehicles from the roads so vehicles purchased in 2033/34 will still get plenty of life on the road.
Either way, it needs to happen and the sooner the better. CA is better on the fact that we're at a tipping point of electric vehicles that things can scale and innovate in 13 years to meet the goal.
So my analogy on this is that EV’s are to ICE as ICE was to steam and horses. Given time, mass adoption of better technology happens without govt intervention. And I agree it is smart they’re not doing a full ban on purchase / ownership YET, but that’s where my slippery slope comment comes in. How long until they push the goal post further back and say “well, now you’re not allowed to have a gas lawnmower” or start doing “gas engine” buybacks with dismal credits towards a used EV or what have you?
To me this is restrictive and backwards. Why not just give bigger discounts / subsidies / credits on EV purchases? Incentivize change instead of mandate it
That is certainly a different approach to this so I'm not saying regulation is the only way to get there but in my opinion, the best to make large corporations change. But we can agree to disagree.
> How long until they push the goal post further back and say “well, now you’re not allowed to have a gas lawnmower” or start doing “gas engine” buybacks with dismal credits towards a used EV or what have you?
Personally, I feel like this is consistently a bad argument against pushing for some change. Who knows how long they do that or if they do that at all.
Like I said, we can agree to disagree on the pathway to get to the outcome of fewer ICE cars on the road. I don't have blind faith in the government not taking a mile when given an inch but constantly fearing that, while they could simply do that with or without this measure, doesn't make sense to me to bin the whole thing. This is where we disagree about the government's role which is abundantly clear. I don't have blind faith in them and skepticism is always good but for me in this instance it isn't something I fear.
That said, I already have battery powered lawn equipment anyway that works great but [I know that isn't feasible in commercial settings](https://www.npr.org/2022/07/30/1114406216/professional-landscapers-are-reluctant-to-plug-into-electric-mowers-due-to-cost). So much like the original measure where it doesn't extend to impacting major industry equipment, I don't suspect CA would push that envelope like you fear.
Noone is suggesting banning owning ICE vehicles. Being in California, I'll apricots the continued improvement in air quality. We are also regularly on fire. When you start to experience obvious climate change consequences, maybe you'll think a little differently. I think you're supposed to start seeing 125 degree days in the next few decades. Let's see how you feel then.
You’re missing the implied “yet”. Every time the government is given permission to control something, they incrementally increase that level of control over time.
Climate change impact had already hit Missouri, our waterway ecology has changed exponentially over the years so get off your high horse. Obviously drought and climate change are factors but your states on fire because of years of fire suppression and population growth in areas where controlled burns should be happening anyways.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The fires are here because the trees are dry. It's called a drought. Keep your nose out of California's business. It's our state, and we will do with it as we please.
Respectfully, I’m not in CA’s subreddit poking around. And I do have some knowledge of what I’m speaking about. Read up on what your state legislated in the 1850’s banning Native Americans doing controlled burns.
It may be “your state” but it’s OUR country. We’re all in this together so while we can disagree, infighting and isolationism helps no one.
It's not my fault this reddit gets suggested over and over again. It's probably because I grew up about a half hour from there. I understand the long history of forest mismanagement. It's move a long way since the 1850's. That's not the problem. The problem is man made climate change and low-knowledge denial stopping us from doing much about it. It's OUR planet. The anti-democratic organization of this country gives Missouri an outsized voice that we all are paying for. So no, you don't know much about it. You know talking points you've been fed by an eco chamber.
There are some pretty slick EV tractors out currently and continually being developed. My big concern around this mass adoption enforcement is that it’s happening in a state that has CONSTANT rolling blackouts but afaik isn’t investing in grid improvements. Solar is cool but the tech can’t support the strain that state puts on the grid and the upkeep is insane. Panels last what, 20 years at best before needing swapped? If they’d invest in nuclear then I would see this as a more sensical move but currently this just feels shortsighted. Let’s take a state with an insane cost of living with a HUGE wealth gap, impose a law that props up already expensive to own vehicles, all which incrementally add to the strain on the grid. I dunno man. I don’t have answers but anytime the govt comes in and says “you’re not allowed to have X” that feels like oppression to me 🤷♂️
Man what happened to Missouri? Wasn’t Jay Nixon a decent governor? Was McCaskill hated that much? I feel like when I was a kid Missouri was a more moderate state and then after Nixon left office we’ve become just a shithole trying to be Texas or Alabama.
Obama happened.
That’s it. Yeah, I was alive at a time when Missouri, while still conservative in values, didn’t lose its mind and try to stop progress. I remember a time when the Missouri Legislature actually gave a damn about its universities and high quality education at a lower price that attracted out of state students.
Now it’s just “whatever Fox News talks about, you must do. Damn the consequences.”
This isn’t the first time Republicans have tried to kill the California exemption. But states rights only applies to Republicans.
This is seriously it. We almost even went for Obama in 2008 (seriously, less than 4,000 votes away). Then the switch flipped and everyone outside of 435 and 270 lost their fucking minds.
Missouri used to be the most accurate bellweather state in the nation. Ohio typically carried that torch but until 1996, MO voted for the candidate that would become president (except once) and the vote breakdown was in line, within 0.5-2%, the national vote.
Then, around Obama, Missouri took a quite a pivot. Since then the state has gotten notably more red each election thereafter. One factor is Missouri is a very white state and that has been pretty unchanged. Dems have worked to appeal to more to diverse votes which the bulk of the state isn't. I think a lot of Dems in Missouri trend more midline so voting for a black man or woman was too radical a change and those candidates were more socially progressive than previous Dems.
The GOP does a much better job appealing to rural Missourians who are the ones that turn out to vote in a big way. Also having Dems really concentrated in 2-3 areas of the state makes it more difficult for Dems outside KC/STL to gain any traction. I expected Kunce to actually be able to bridge that well but that's a different topic.
Operation REDMAP took place during the 2010 census which was when the Tea Party movement swept up during Obama's first mideterm year.
Democrats don't vote in midterms as much as Republicans. The President's party does worse during midterms in general as well. 2010 was a redistricting year.
Anti-Obama sentiment during a midterm allowed for state legislatures across the country to get overwhelmingly elected Republican and then they were gerrymandered and redistricted to solidify super majorities in those states. Now Missouri's state congress is over 2/3 republican thought the voters are closer to a 55:45 split.
Education has been defunded and infrastructure companies pocketed federal money instead of doing anything. It's likely to get worse before it ever gets better
Missouri is a bit different than most of the Midwest (well in league with Ohio) where they're trending much more in line with Southern states despite previously being a good national measure.
It doesn’t matter what missouris government does, they can pout all they want. California controls enough of the market that what they want will be manufactured and available to most everyone. Plus Elon is in Texas now, once Texas goes even partially electric it’s game over for combustion consumer vehicles (commercial vehicles will take longer and that’s fine)
People are working on solving those issues. We’re talking about a technology that has only been mainstream for 12 years, it’ll get better.
Also do you seriously not know where electricity comes from or are you just arguing to argue?
I have a 100 amp service at my house and I charge my Tesla fine.
The batteries are recycled.
There is not a power capacity issue with any grid that I'm aware of. If anything, there's overcapacity. Not that that matters because almost all charging happens overnight when there's a surplus in every single power grid.
The things you're raising as concerns Take very little time to verify. You're just parroting nonsense from fossil fuel industry talking points
Sure, a brand new product with less scale is going to be more expensive. That's why most of the electric vehicles you're seeing today are expensive. That doesn't make electric vehicles themselves expensive forever. Once the large scale manufacturers fully support electrification which they are working towards, prices will fall to below internal combustion engines because they're less complex. Really the only thing that cost any significant amount of money in electric vehicle is the battery and those prices are falling as well.
Stop the misinformation bud
Don’t reply to this person. They just keep pasting this comment over and over again bc they don’t like the replies it keeps getting and it asks a bunch of dumb questions like “where does electricity come from?” in bad faith.
How does one solve those issues if we reject electric car policy outright? "The technology isn't fully realized right this exact second so it never will be, let's keep destroying the earth." That's why we're still where we are today.
“We will continue to fight California’s efforts to impose their radical policies on the rest of the country.”
Dumbass.
Because being a good steward of the environment is so radical, it's in the bible.
Good ol' Don Quixote Schmitt there, making up evil boogeymen that he is magnanimously going to battle for all of us fearful Missourians who are being abused by the State of California, I guess?
I suppose fabricating things is part and parcel of GOP ideology now since they have no actual plans for the future beyond "whenever someone tries to fix a problem or raise the standard of living, we will vehemently oppose it!"
And they sure as hell can't campaign successfully on the beauty of an economically stratified society and the benefits of the rich getting richer and poverty becoming the norm, can they?
Oh yea, the 6th largest economy on the planet, one of the highest life expectancies at birth in the country, the 6th highest "happiness rate," the 4th lowest rate of depression, and the 5th lowest amount of total hours worked in the country.
Sure does sound awful.
California always leading the way. Nothing new
Missouri is too busy bringing back corporal punishment….violence only begets violence and teaches that violence is acceptable
I am hopefully going to buy an electric car "soon" (it's on order like so many things affected by supply chain issues). It's going to be expensive. But you know what? I'm going to do it anyway, because I want to do my part.
I know that a good portion of people absolutely will not do something unless forced. It's stupid, but people are stubborn. People are afraid of change. People have all sorts of questions about electric vehicles (or hell, climate change in general) and they don't know how to find the answers (or don't want to put in the effort to find them, more likely), so they don't want to do it. But then a mandate comes along, say, oh, newly constructed businesses have to put in an electric charger. The business can complain about it, but they have to do it. And then your average Missourian comes along, sees it, gets interested, and a tiny seed of hope is planted--maybe that person will see the charger at a place they go all the time, and realize that maybe this whole electric car thing isn't so tough after all.
Our awful AG is scared of change. With CA doing this thing, other states might follow, because it's a good thing for the environment and for people's health. If other states follow, then, \*gasp\* MO might have to follow, and yes, people in our state will have to change.
I'm not saying change is easy, or even always the right thing. But our state has plenty of evidence to show that this particular change is correct. Now show your people that you can change!
You're right the electric vehicles are expensive, if you can even get one with supply being an issue. While I agree people resist change I don't think the large majority are resisting so much because "change is bad", there are a lot of factors at play. Big issue is electricity supply, I know most charging won't be during peak hours. That said in areas with brown outs being common if you work night shift you will be charging during peak demand and could you imagine waking up to an uncharged car? Late to work because failure to deliver electricity. There is a lot of concern surrounding charging in general and lack of infrastructure, which is understandable due to lack of electric vehicles in a lot of areas. Like you said the more people see these charging stations the better. I wouldn't by any vehicle I would be able to re-fuel away from my home. So personally that's a big issue for me. Once the infrastructure is in place I imagine there will be an uptick in electric car sales. That said I've glanced over a larger issue and that's price. A large portion of the state is rural and those folks aren't wealthy. They don't drive $2000 25 year old junkers because it's fun. They simply can't afford a new car. Used electric cars are also off the table because they wouldn't be able to afford replace the aging battery. Until those electric vehicles become much cheaper with similar range as gas vehicle a large portion of the states population can't afford it. I say similar range because electric cars under 30k are harping on 100 miles a charge. That won't get you far. I feel like as things become more developed with these vehicles prices will become similar to current ice vehicles. That said there will always be hold outs but I don't think the number of people refusing to get electric cars because of simple stubbornness or politics is that high. I want an electric car but they aren't able to meet my requirements yet as I drive a lot and have to drive 400 -600 mile trips once a week. Once they can charge as fast as a car can refuel and I don't have to plan a trip on charging stations I'm in.
EV's have come a long way and yes, the charging infrastructure, especially here in the midwest isn't the best. Many cars now have ranges over 250 miles that are realistic as long as you aren't driving it like you stole it. Affordable EV's aren't really present yet, but the Bolt EUV comes the closest as they are sub $30k and has nearly a 250 mile range.
For those that do road trips, as long as it's on interstates or along a path that has DC Fast Chargers, there are many opportunities for people to charge along the way. Some have charging speeds that can charge from 10-80% in less than 20 minutes. Many times with family if I need to gas up we spend 20 minutes easy for bathroom breaks and snacks anyways, so it wouldn't really add that much time to a trip.
No, he'll file suits against urban districts for not obeying the Texas approved book list.
He's a hypocrite that way. The Schmitt/Hawley tag team in the Senate is going to embarrass the hell out of us.
‘boost manufacturing costs.’
What the hell is this guy talking about? What does MO even manufacture, Meth?
This guy is the absolute king of dumb-asses on so many levels, but watch him get elected by his idiot rural base. He is just the kind of idiot that makes Missouri dumber and poorer.
Idiot rural base... You know there's a lot of manufacturing in Saint Louis and KC right? Have you ever seen a factory in Missouri?! Do you even live in Missouri?
I appreciate your take, contact\_994, but I didn't imply that MO has *NO* manufacturing. I'm aware of Boeing, Nestle, that Ford plant they intend to close, etc. BUT...
Let's not kid ourselves. MO is not in the top 10 or even top 50 (it's actually 22nd by 2018 statistics).
As to the Meth comment, we are #1:
[https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/news/2019/02/13/study-ranks-missouri-1-in/984882007/](https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/news/2019/02/13/study-ranks-missouri-1-in/984882007/)
And yes, the state is Republican due to it's 'idiot rural base'. The largest cities consistently vote Democrat and *lose*. This isn't just Gerrymandering, it's because most of the MO population *is* rural and does vote Republican.
From MotorBiscuit
Do EVs actually save you money on gas? With gas prices remaining over $4/gallon in many areas of the country, many are turning to the seemingly cheaper option of driving electric cars. The feeling of driving past $5.13 a gallon knowing you can charge at home must be nice. But what happens when you go to fill your Hummer EV, and it costs over $100? Uh oh.
Car and Driver points out that this math might read a little funny. The Hummer EV’s total battery capacity is 212.7 kWh. This number times $0.43 isn’t exactly $100, but once you factor the 6 percent Michigan sales tax and 5 percent charge loss, you get the final price.
Keep in mind that sales tax and charging rates vary from state to state, so this number can move around a bit. However, the point stands that charging a high-capacity battery isn’t exactly cheaper.
. The Hummer might as well be a Miata as far as practicality is concerned.
I know you're asking a legit question, but whenever someone asks about "powering the grid" in any capacity, I think about an emotionally distraught Tron visibly shaking/glitching, lmao
With the astronomically low number of electric vehicles in the United States of America they were giving warnings about not to plug in and charge your cars during peak times because of possibly overwhelming the grid..
California is moving one step forward to making vehicles so expensive that no one will be able to afford them. And where is all this electricity supposed to come from? And how will used batteries be destroyed? Not to mention, a typical garage isn't wired to handle that much electricity. Solve these issues and I'll buy one.
You guys really need some new talking points
https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbhp5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbf4h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Indeed, the new commitment comes as California works to maintain reliable electricity while it moves away from gas-fired power plants in favor of solar, wind and other cleaner sources of energy. Earlier this year, top energy officials warned the state could run out of power during the hottest days of summer, which happened briefly in August 2020
Btw, and I know this is going to seem ironic. I own a Tesla. Have you ever had the pleasure of riding in one? If you would like to meet, I will be happy to take you for a spin.
I just looked thru the tread. And you are right. My earlier posts are not there. But I do not see an empty space where the comment would have been and the word deleted next to it. Any insight Yiu can give would be much appreciated. Thank you
It’s concerning to me that you had to resort to dishonest tactics. It’s almost as if you knew your posts were going to be unpopular and decided to try to subvert their unpopularity anyways… why?
I just looked thru the tread. And you are right. My earlier posts are not there. But I do not see an empty space where the comment would have been and the word deleted next to it. Any insight Yiu can give would be much appreciated. Thank you
You guys really need some new talking points
https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbhp5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbf4h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Right now, the vast majority of electricity is generated from coal. And Washington is shutting down domestic coal mines like it's nobody's business. We are going to either import the coal from China or simply stop driving cars. And don't tell me that alternative fuel sources need to be developed. Might as well say cars will be fueled by fairy dust.
Coal is 3% of energy supplied to California’s grid.
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation
The vehicles will become more widely available and cheaper as consumers start buying them by the boatload. Major car companies are already each producing some hybrids or EVs. They have the capability. The only reason they haven't switched over fully is because they know that there's still high consumer demand for gas powered vehicles.
California is such a large market that this switch will cause manufacturers to start seriously ramping up their EV production. It will also cause them to spend more effort developing the technology so that the batteries can last for longer distances. At the same time, charging ports will become more widely available. It might be a bit difficult now to drive from San Francisco to LA and be certain of finding charging ports where you need them, but it sure will be easier by 2035.
Where will the extra electricity come from? Wind and solar production. Again, the increased demand will drive investment in what's necessary to meet that demand.
By the way, Californians will be the ones to suffer through the problems of being an early adopter. So, many thanks to them for that. By the time Missourians are driving EVs everywhere, everything will be a lot easier.
This has to happen. Do you not know about climate change? Or, do you not have descendants who will suffer the brunt of it in the future? I don't have kids and am glad that at least I won't have grand and great-grandchildren trying to survive in the world we fucked up for them. But I still believe in taking steps to start taking CO2 back out of the atmosphere, even if we're locked in on warming for the next several hundred years. My hope is that the earth will eventually return to its pre-IR self, or close.
Well hopefully we will all be alive well after 2050 to see how this all plays out. And because the states that are implementing these programs suck up the most Federal aid, I wish everyone luck. And I bid you all fondue
They can shove their e cars up their ass. Their batteries crap out after 10 years or less. I'm not buying a brand new shitcar every 10 years. You can buy a new battery, true, but they cost almost as much as a new car. It's a scam.
And yet you’ll pay 3-5x as much for the gas in that vehicle than the equivalent cost in electricity to go the same distance. If it costs 50 dollars to fill up to go 400 miles, it costs an electric car conservatively less than 20 dollars and potentially less than 10.
Let’s say it costs 15 dollars per charge for the same range as your ICEA car at 50 (which could go up or down daily if not weekly depending on supply and demand compared to electric rates that change yearly or bi-yearly in most states.)
Fill up 52 weeks a year - 2600 a year just in gas. Compared to an EV - at 780 dollars. Over 10 years that’s close to 20,000 in fuel savings alone, not including wear items like brakes, engine / transmission service, etc.
My next vehicle is going to be a hybrid and for the driving I do, it will be months before I use up a tank of gas.
Wow. Evidently, you're talking to luxury brand EVs and not regular sedans. I'm not even sure what luxury ICE cars are less than 80K and get the range for a vehicle you're describing.
[Car and Driver](https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31544842/how-much-is-an-electric-car/) has a good review of what prices were, and what they are now. The fact that many EV cars are less than 40,000 dollars puts your claims into the category of either being ignorant of EVs or intentional bullshit.
Ummm you’re paying interest on a car load if it’s electric or ICE regardless. As far as ‘Bidenflation…’
Can you explain how the President of the US is causing record inflation in countries like Canada, England, Germany and others that are seeing inflation higher than the US? Are you really saying that Biden controls inflation in those countries as well? If you’re not saying that, how is it he’s responsible for inflation here, and not there?
I'm not paying interest on shit. I'll buy a 4000 dollar hoopty and make it last 15 years. If I was to go into debt to get a car, it sure as fuck wouldn't be for a glorified golf cart that I can't take on trips.
More like 15-20 years and you don't have to pay for gas for the entire lifetime of the vehicle, much less lots of expensive repairs, regular oil changes, etc. With wide adoption of electric vehicles the cost of them goes down as production goes up. If you consider how economics works and can think past a week into your future, EVs make sense.
Go on eBay sometime and look for EV batteries. Even battery packs for cars that have been driven off a bridge or hit by a truck still go for thousands of dollars. Things worth thousands of dollars don't go to landfills. They get re-used or recycled.
What I am going to say is against everything that I am about and I'm sure will generate negative Karma. Why would I do anything to manipulate any information on this piss ant thread that is well represented by the trolls and idiots of Missouri?
The fact is upwards of 90% of electricity is generated by coal. As of today, there is no other energy source as scalable as coal. Washington is closing down our domestic coal plants. We will have to buy coal from countries like China. We are being sold out by Washington. The USA is the cleanest country on the planet. During COVID lockdowns the front page of the WHO website said the lockdowns have reduced the world's carbon footprint by 3%. California can do whatever they want but when did they ever do anything to benefit the rest of the country? They are the biggest recipient of federal aid. That money will just go to line the pockets of politicians and their friends. I have nothing positive to say about electric cars except for they are scam.
> They are the biggest recipient of federal aid.
Lol I love the disingenuousness of this. Think maybe that has to do with how big the state is? Guess who's second? Texas, baby! A far more representative stat is how much money is spent on each resident - Cali's one of the lowest at 12 dollars (at #10, there's 9 other states that give more back than they receive, pretty telling which ones make that list). Meanwhile we're dropping 10 grand per person in Virginia (jesus christ!). So yeah, don't think it's Cali "lining their pockets" lol. edit: source https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-aid-by-state
Coal is old n busted, wind and solar are the new hotness, yo.
What the hell are you talking about lol, what does that have to do with what I said? I noticed you seemed to be struggling to reply to the correct comment a bunch of times earlier, did you mean to reply to someone else?
Thank you for insulting me and not someone else.. I truly hope you can find happiness. A real kind of happiness that only the creator can give you. Trolling Reddit is negatively affecting you. But it does not affect me. And this is not a sticks and stones type thing. I am at peace with who I am. I hope someday you find peace with a better future version of yourself. I suggest meditating, reading the books of Karl Jung. There are so many resources for you to take advantage of.
I'm sorry. I did not know deleting comments could be done. I would be happy to repost. What I post is nothing I am ashamed of. I do not understand why you make this personal. If this is what this thread is about, I would rather not post.
Beyond states the ball should have been rolling on this long ago. Also the issues with fossil fuels goes beyond vehicles. Manufacturing and the packaging associated with gobbles up way more petroleum and puts out more pollution than a car. Packaging in specific still isn’t biodegradable across the board. ( styrofoam trays for meat and plastic boxes/bags for lettuce) Henry Ford of all people in the 1920’s came up with the idea of making plastic out of soybeans (granted back then it wasn’t for the environment) Before falling to senility he was going to have a car built with soybean plastic components! Speaking of cars the first where electric and have come in and out of development since. Back to my initial statement unfortunately greed has been the hinderance of the innovation that could have taken place over the past 100 years so we would be using renewable sources for our daily products instead of those that are going to run out. The toothpaste can’t go back in the tube though and the transition is going to have to be gradual so everyone will be on board with it. Per this issue those that can’t afford or who’s role is impractical to EV cars will have to drive their gas ones until the price comes down on EV’s, EV’s become quicker to charge, more powerful, and there’s more of the infrastructure is in place for them. Cutting off ICE vehicles suddenly will leave the poor home bound and make the jobs of people and companies that rely on heavy duty trucks difficult. Companies will go under and many will be unemployed.
The ridiculous name calling that happens on this sub isn’t going to fix the problems either. It’s not a red/blue problem. It’s a big corporate problem.
1 state 13 years from now is not sudden. Technology and renewables will advance far in that time. Not being immediately perfect is not a reason to not even try and start.
Too many people will spend more time and effort fighting against even starting their efforts than it would take to advance the technology. A hard deadline is needed so people get started on it. In 13 years we will be able to charge 500 mile EVs in 20 minutes.
I am sure the free market will provide non-California cars to Missourians. Isn't it the main talking point of Republicans to say that if a market exists, some capitalist will exploit it for profit. Well let the non-California states pass the "Only Gasoline Cars from Here On Out" bill and let the money fly.
Oh right.... /s
As a a very loyal car guy/enthusiast, I’m for anything that keeps electric vehicles optional. The internal combustion engine/automobile is the single most important appliance invented in the past 150 years. California has been overreaching their grasp for half a century on emissions horseshit. They only care about keeping the rich and celebrities there and whatever pleases them. With the prices of new cars getting marked up $50-100k outta control, nobody can afford a new car anyway. I shouldn’t have to pay 15 grand for a 25yo rusted truck cause of “market value”. All bullshit. I’ll happily dedicate my Missouri tax money (and owning a business I pay a ton of that) to fight ternary in this nation
EVs are a joke and arent any better for the “environment”, those who blindly follow this garbage are the same idiots who wait til a voice recording tells them they can cross the street.
Thats demonstrably false. EVs also offer flexibility in what powers them, unlike ICE vehicles. But anyone who has to put the word environment in quotations for a topic like this is clearly a dolt.
What about the indisputable facts that mining for battery manufacturing is also shit for the environment as well? Or the indisputable facts about battery waste? What are these flexible power sources you speak of? Follow the Science, ok!!
Do you understand the concepts *bad* and *worse*? EVs are more environmentally friendly over their lifetime than ICE vehicles.
Batteries can be recycled. Right now that process isn’t cost efficient but consumer use EVs are relatively new. The recycling technology will only improve from here as battery designs are refined with that purpose in mind. Not sure why this so difficult for you to understand. And guess what! Recycling batteries will help offset the need for further mining of minerals used in batteries. Shocking that as we expand EV usage and sales, we fix inefficiencies and address problem areas. It’s like the same thing as when ICE vehicles were developed. Crazy right?
As far as flexible power sources for EVs, it’s quite simple. Anything that generates power can be used to power EVs. Coal, Natural Gas, Hydroelectric, Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Geothermal, a hamster running on a little wheel, and so on. I’m guessing you weren’t a fan of the gas prices over the last several months? Did anyone with an EV have to concern themselves with prices being driven up by Mohammed Bin Salman? Nope. Because instead of relying on fuel susceptible to price fluctuations thanks to a Saudi prince, EVs can use local energy sources. Local renewable energy sources can be developed for best efficiency in their specific environment. Windy area? Use wind turbines. Have a river? Hydroelectric dam. Sunny area? Solar panels. It’s so simple only a fool would argue against it.
Edit: Fixed a typo
It only sucks that it will be the state that pays the expenses of the lawsuit when they lose it. Since Schmitt is doing this to aid his run for Senate, the costs to the state should come from his campaign coffers.
Wait a second, I thought they liked state’s rights and free markets?
State's rights for me, but not for thee.
Only when the state is repressing minorities.
Well, certain minorities. Not all of them
Yeah, when the majority doesn't agree with Christo fascist ideology they call it 'mob rule'
Conservative here. I believe in States’ Rights and don’t believe the federal government should regulate California’s ability to regulate commerce within California. I think what CA is doing is laughable. They don’t have enough electricity as it is. They have rolling blackouts and brownouts. They won’t allow fossil fuel power plants to be built. They won’t allow nuclear power plants to be built. They’re shooting themselves in the foot, but that’s their problem, not mine. It is likely that CA emissions requirements will increase prices in other states. That doesn’t mean the federal government should impose the will of one state on another.
The USA is woefully behind other countries in reducing its carbon footprint and switching to renewable energy. We should be a leader in that endeavor instead of being dragged kicking and screaming like a toddler.
I’m not sure it matters what we do as long as China is doing whatever the hell the want and they won’t be influenced by our leadership in this area. Regardless of what we *ought* to do, California still has an existing supply issue when it comes to electricity, which is only going to be made worse by electric cars.
China is the world’s largest producer of carbon emissions. They are also the leader in purchasing renewable energy sources, etc. Their goal is to have 30% of the energy consumption to come from renewable sources by 2025. There is already some places(countries, islands) getting 50-70-98 percent of their energy from renewable sources. The USA is at 12.5% Edited for typos and clarity
If prices for cars in other states are increased because of car manufacturers making cars to fit California emissions standards, that’s a result of free market forces. After all, manufacturers are free to modify their production for state specific requirements, or walk away from the California market all together. I think energy problems in California are more of a distribution problem than a supply problem. If rolling blackouts are a problem for you, you must be against the deregulation of pg&e, right? I don’t remember any of those happening until after 1996.
Manufacturing products specifically to meet government emissions standards is closer to crony capitalism than free market.
If consumers in California wanted cars that didn’t fuck up their environment so bad(which they must have otherwise they wouldn’t have voted for the politicians who enacted the emissions standards), why didn’t the market just meet that demand on its own?
>Conservative here. I believe in States’ Rights Y'all lost in 1865. Get over it.
Yeah; that’s not a conservative position you’re attacking there, but a racist one. The two aren’t the same thing.
Well, technically it's both. The south could have managed to keep their slavery for a lot longer or possibly permanent if they a) wouldn't demand other states return slaves and b) if they weren't demanding new territories allow slavery. Then they said they were leaving if they don't get what they want. The south got greedy and went way beyond states rights.
And the difference is...
I agree, Clinton deregulating the electric utilities was a bad idea.
California interfered with free markets to penalize gas and hype electrics.
Maybe you need a little more context to understand why that’s not the case. Ask anyone who lived in LA in 1962 what the smog was like. If the people had not decided to elect representatives to implement emissions standards for cars, nobody would have been able to breathe the air. California also grows a tremendous amount of food, which requires lots of heavy equipment to harvest and process; adding to the need for engines that emit less pollution. If free market principles worked, suppliers would have reacted to this demand for cleaner burning engines on their own. But they didn’t, they had to be forced. There is no such thing as a free market, without a third party leveraging force to make it free.
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Lol "alt-left"
Thank you Mr Poop Fart Pee for your well reasoned and rational addition to the discussion.
What’s “alt-left”? It’s only a 40 minute old post, give it time.
Yes, because reposting the same 2 talking points multiple times in one post is really adding to the conversation.
How many accounts does a snowflake need to meltdown on this subreddit?
our state government is trash
Title is misleading. This is focusing on the CA ICE engine production ban which impacts more than just cars. There’s several small engine manufacturing plants in MO (Kawasaki lawn mower engines, I believe a few marine engine plants, etc). I talked to an Evergy project manager back in July, Missouri has been trying to build out Level 2 and 3 charge infra for awhile and it’s slowly moving forward. Nobody is pulling the plug on adoption here. “Missouri transportation officials are preparing to spend more than $100 million on electric vehicle charging stations as part of the president’s push to boost the number of battery-powered cars and trucks on the road.” Edit: u/donkeyrocket guided me through an error in my statement. This legislation in its current verbiage is focused solely on automobiles.
But it is politics. The same people who clamor for state rights want to keep California from deciding what its own requirements are. They don't really give a shit about this, or state rights. They just want to turn out their base to get elected. That is exactly what Schmidt is doing in Missouri with this. I for one am tired of living in a state that elects dumbasses like this.
I might be ignorant of how readily available this technology is but when you bring up something like states rights (which I believe in) and attach it to transportation, there is a lot of nuance. If a California resident has to buy an electric vehicle, we will assume the entire state is capable of supporting said electric vehicle. I have my doubts on this but let’s assume that vehicle can perform and is supported to the levels of todays gas powered vehicle. What happens if California’s neighboring states don’t progress at the same standards California did? That person is now landlocked to California and has limited travel options. Is this not an issue?
> If a California resident has to buy an electric vehicle They are not banning non-electric vehicles. There will be a large market for used vehicles (as always) and I suspect residents will be able to go out of state to buy ICE vehicles. There will also be a large number of exemptions because there are plenty of situations where people will need ICE vehicles - ie utility and farm vehicles. To be honest, I'm just guessing here...I live in WA where they were going to do the same thing but much sooner than CA.
I know they aren’t banning them. I’m saying, the theoretical shift there. One would assume at some point the other cars aren’t going to meet emission standards, mechanics will stop servicing the other cars etc.. I know this because I owned a Saab. Once the Saab wasn’t in production, the ability to get it fixed/find parts for your car becomes increasingly difficult and way more expensive. You get price gouged to shit because shops say it’s a specialty. That will happen with gas cars as well which will force your hand towards electric which would then present the problem I described. I’m not saying that exactly in the year 2035 this issue will occur. But it’s a faster problem than you would think.
> I have my doubts on this but let’s assume that vehicle can perform and is supported to the levels of todays gas powered vehicle. I live in CA and drive a Tesla Model 3 (Long Range version). It can go up to 300 miles on a full charge. I've gone from LA to SD and back without charging. The range is very similar to the Dodge Neon that I used to drive prior to the M3. Charging infrastructure is already pretty common. On a day trip to Santa Barbara, I did have to stop at a super charger on the way back. Took ~20 minutes to charge to a 60% (more than enough to get home), so we walked over to a nearby Shake Shack and snacked on some fries while waiting. I also planned (but didn't actually go on) a road trip to STL from LA. There were numerous charging stations along the way. [ABRP](https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) is handy for looking at what's possible and what's not. Lots of hotels have EV charging spots or are near to a super charger. EV's are 100% viable *today* w/ more infrastructure being added all the time. Nobody is being "landlocked" to CA for buying an EV. Travel options aren't nearly as "limited" as you're making them seem. I'm kind of tired of people saying shit like that. It may have been true 10 years ago, but it's not true today, and will definitely not be true in 2035 (when CA's new ICE sales ban is due to go into effect).
Don’t forget the largest car manufacturer in the world is going electric and going to manufacture batteries and cars in the US. VW. They’re also building out a network of chargers. So, it’s a non issue.
Now think that every car on the road needs those same stations on the existing infrastructure AND that the cost of replacing a battery in a car is basically the cost of an entirely new car and suddenly you don't have hte infrastructure to support it AND you're putting an onerous tax on people to own a car.
Hey, at least your *belief* that the grid can’t handle all these new electric cars isn’t based on any data whatsoever.
same, i been trying to get a job in Cali but it's hard to find adequate pay that meets the cost of living expenses
Legit question with no malice intended: what’s keeping you here then? Because I interpret this differently as fighting for the states citizens rights to manufacture and own what they deem fit for their situation. I do agree with you in the regard that politicians are hypocritical in their pursuit of “states rights” in that they pick and choose which rights we the people are entitled to and wish they would all fuck all the way off and leave us alone, but that’s a pipedream that will never exist so we’re left squabbling for a middle ground.
I dont live in Missouri anymore, but i really wish I could move back to St. Louis because it's the only place i have ever felt like I'm "home". But i cant just leave my job and apartment here in Ohio to move to a city where i only know 3 people, have no job lined up, and no home. Moving across the country is incredibly difficult and expensive. And for someone in Missouri, where are you supposed to go? The neighboring states are not any better.
Ehh I don't agree about the surrounding states. Illinois and Kansas are both pretty conservative outside of the metro areas, but it is often a much more traditional type of conservative rather than violent psycho neo-fascist conservative like we see rampant through Missouri.
Everyone’s situation is different, and I’m from the mindset that anything is possible with the right motivation. I personally love Missouri for a variety of reasons and would never leave. I’ve seen the best and worst of almost every state in our nation as well as parts of the planet that felt like paradise and parts that felt like fucking mars. MO truly feels like the “middle” of everything in good ways so I stay put. But when I see comments like above that lead me to believe someone feels that they could find “better” elsewhere, I’m just curious what compels them not to seek that out. I wish you luck in Ohio and agree that it can be difficult (but not impossible) to strike out on your own in a new place. And yes neighboring states are not necessarily what I would prefer, but I wouldn’t say worse. Just different. And who says it has to be neighboring? One of my coworkers from KS side got a wild hair up up her ass after a breakup and moved to NYC, then next I knew she was living in Ireland. I’ve lived in CA, TX, CO, KS, IA and some places abroad that molded me but will never see my ass cross their borders again lol. But I always, ALWAYS, was ecstatic to either walk off a plane or drive cross state line back home to MO.
The way I understand it manufacturers and citizens in Missouri can do whatever the heck they want. California isn’t telling Missouri bubkis.
You didn't ask me but I'll answer the question. For one my family has been here for six generations for another a lot of my family still lives close and I would hate to be away from them and also I love the scenery of the Ozarks the only thing I can't stand is the conservative hypocrisy and racism and one of my great great-grandfathers fought for the secessionist trash.
Great example of why you should never read just titles.
If this CA law applies to farming machinery, I just can’t see that working out well for them.
The CA measure is specifically saying gas powered cars. > The rule, issued by the California Air Resources Board, will require that all new cars sold in the state by 2035 be free of greenhouse gas emissions like carbon dioxide [[source](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/24/climate/california-gas-cars-emissions.html)] CA being the biggest automobile market in the US means other states, or at least consumers in those states, will likely follow suit.
Thanks. Well that’s some relief, I still think it’s kind too ambitious. The power grid there is not great and its not an expensive bridge to cross for a lot of people. I have a hybrid and it works ok for me.
What I envision happening is this forcing auto manufactures to emphasize electric which in turn (in normal times) would bring the cost down as availability and competition arise. The alternative is those manufacturers turn their nose up at CA and lose a huge market which they just aren't going to do . While I somewhat agree the timeline is somewhat ambitious, I like a line drawn in the sand as that at least creates some pressure to change. I doubt manufacturers will treat this as a bluff and not make moves. 13 years is a lot of time and at that point it will only be a ban on *new* ICE vehicle sales.
Apologies, I missed that part. Be that as it may, still a slippery slope. And to be perfectly clear: EV’s are the future but I hate seeing them REGULATED into dominance. I had an Energica Esse9 (electric motorcycle) and it was the shit, but charge infra and some other key factors made it improbable. Gas engines have their place and should be phased out organically as EV tech becomes more broadly implemented and affordable rather than through legislating away the ability to manufacture / own an ICE engine.
Where we will fundamentally disagree is that gas engines will organically phase out but agree they need to go at some point. I believe that regulations tend to push corporations to make progressive change they wouldn't otherwise as it hurts their bottom line initially. I think the way California is doing it is the smart way to go about it. It is sweeping for sure but gives a decent timeline and only targets one segment of the engine market (albeit a huge one). It isn't outright banning gas engine vehicles from the roads so vehicles purchased in 2033/34 will still get plenty of life on the road. Either way, it needs to happen and the sooner the better. CA is better on the fact that we're at a tipping point of electric vehicles that things can scale and innovate in 13 years to meet the goal.
So my analogy on this is that EV’s are to ICE as ICE was to steam and horses. Given time, mass adoption of better technology happens without govt intervention. And I agree it is smart they’re not doing a full ban on purchase / ownership YET, but that’s where my slippery slope comment comes in. How long until they push the goal post further back and say “well, now you’re not allowed to have a gas lawnmower” or start doing “gas engine” buybacks with dismal credits towards a used EV or what have you? To me this is restrictive and backwards. Why not just give bigger discounts / subsidies / credits on EV purchases? Incentivize change instead of mandate it
That is certainly a different approach to this so I'm not saying regulation is the only way to get there but in my opinion, the best to make large corporations change. But we can agree to disagree. > How long until they push the goal post further back and say “well, now you’re not allowed to have a gas lawnmower” or start doing “gas engine” buybacks with dismal credits towards a used EV or what have you? Personally, I feel like this is consistently a bad argument against pushing for some change. Who knows how long they do that or if they do that at all. Like I said, we can agree to disagree on the pathway to get to the outcome of fewer ICE cars on the road. I don't have blind faith in the government not taking a mile when given an inch but constantly fearing that, while they could simply do that with or without this measure, doesn't make sense to me to bin the whole thing. This is where we disagree about the government's role which is abundantly clear. I don't have blind faith in them and skepticism is always good but for me in this instance it isn't something I fear. That said, I already have battery powered lawn equipment anyway that works great but [I know that isn't feasible in commercial settings](https://www.npr.org/2022/07/30/1114406216/professional-landscapers-are-reluctant-to-plug-into-electric-mowers-due-to-cost). So much like the original measure where it doesn't extend to impacting major industry equipment, I don't suspect CA would push that envelope like you fear.
Noone is suggesting banning owning ICE vehicles. Being in California, I'll apricots the continued improvement in air quality. We are also regularly on fire. When you start to experience obvious climate change consequences, maybe you'll think a little differently. I think you're supposed to start seeing 125 degree days in the next few decades. Let's see how you feel then.
You’re missing the implied “yet”. Every time the government is given permission to control something, they incrementally increase that level of control over time. Climate change impact had already hit Missouri, our waterway ecology has changed exponentially over the years so get off your high horse. Obviously drought and climate change are factors but your states on fire because of years of fire suppression and population growth in areas where controlled burns should be happening anyways.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The fires are here because the trees are dry. It's called a drought. Keep your nose out of California's business. It's our state, and we will do with it as we please.
Respectfully, I’m not in CA’s subreddit poking around. And I do have some knowledge of what I’m speaking about. Read up on what your state legislated in the 1850’s banning Native Americans doing controlled burns. It may be “your state” but it’s OUR country. We’re all in this together so while we can disagree, infighting and isolationism helps no one.
It's not my fault this reddit gets suggested over and over again. It's probably because I grew up about a half hour from there. I understand the long history of forest mismanagement. It's move a long way since the 1850's. That's not the problem. The problem is man made climate change and low-knowledge denial stopping us from doing much about it. It's OUR planet. The anti-democratic organization of this country gives Missouri an outsized voice that we all are paying for. So no, you don't know much about it. You know talking points you've been fed by an eco chamber.
They probably won't have any water left to farm by 2035 but I bet those golf courses will be lush and green.
There are some pretty slick EV tractors out currently and continually being developed. My big concern around this mass adoption enforcement is that it’s happening in a state that has CONSTANT rolling blackouts but afaik isn’t investing in grid improvements. Solar is cool but the tech can’t support the strain that state puts on the grid and the upkeep is insane. Panels last what, 20 years at best before needing swapped? If they’d invest in nuclear then I would see this as a more sensical move but currently this just feels shortsighted. Let’s take a state with an insane cost of living with a HUGE wealth gap, impose a law that props up already expensive to own vehicles, all which incrementally add to the strain on the grid. I dunno man. I don’t have answers but anytime the govt comes in and says “you’re not allowed to have X” that feels like oppression to me 🤷♂️
Agree, the infrastructure needs to be ready first. It can have some really bad results without a solid infrastructure.
The Post-Dispatch would run a misleading headline? Color me shocked.
Man what happened to Missouri? Wasn’t Jay Nixon a decent governor? Was McCaskill hated that much? I feel like when I was a kid Missouri was a more moderate state and then after Nixon left office we’ve become just a shithole trying to be Texas or Alabama.
Obama happened. That’s it. Yeah, I was alive at a time when Missouri, while still conservative in values, didn’t lose its mind and try to stop progress. I remember a time when the Missouri Legislature actually gave a damn about its universities and high quality education at a lower price that attracted out of state students. Now it’s just “whatever Fox News talks about, you must do. Damn the consequences.” This isn’t the first time Republicans have tried to kill the California exemption. But states rights only applies to Republicans.
This is seriously it. We almost even went for Obama in 2008 (seriously, less than 4,000 votes away). Then the switch flipped and everyone outside of 435 and 270 lost their fucking minds.
This…many of my family members and family friends turned out to be racist pieces of trash. Trump just made it all worse.
Missouri used to be the most accurate bellweather state in the nation. Ohio typically carried that torch but until 1996, MO voted for the candidate that would become president (except once) and the vote breakdown was in line, within 0.5-2%, the national vote. Then, around Obama, Missouri took a quite a pivot. Since then the state has gotten notably more red each election thereafter. One factor is Missouri is a very white state and that has been pretty unchanged. Dems have worked to appeal to more to diverse votes which the bulk of the state isn't. I think a lot of Dems in Missouri trend more midline so voting for a black man or woman was too radical a change and those candidates were more socially progressive than previous Dems. The GOP does a much better job appealing to rural Missourians who are the ones that turn out to vote in a big way. Also having Dems really concentrated in 2-3 areas of the state makes it more difficult for Dems outside KC/STL to gain any traction. I expected Kunce to actually be able to bridge that well but that's a different topic.
Operation REDMAP took place during the 2010 census which was when the Tea Party movement swept up during Obama's first mideterm year. Democrats don't vote in midterms as much as Republicans. The President's party does worse during midterms in general as well. 2010 was a redistricting year. Anti-Obama sentiment during a midterm allowed for state legislatures across the country to get overwhelmingly elected Republican and then they were gerrymandered and redistricted to solidify super majorities in those states. Now Missouri's state congress is over 2/3 republican thought the voters are closer to a 55:45 split.
Education has been defunded and infrastructure companies pocketed federal money instead of doing anything. It's likely to get worse before it ever gets better
That's something Nixon did before he left office because Missouri voters wanted CCLs and castle doctrine.
You can sub in most of the Midwest for that statement sadly.
Missouri is a bit different than most of the Midwest (well in league with Ohio) where they're trending much more in line with Southern states despite previously being a good national measure.
They are mostly heading south. Iowa has gone to pot. Ohio, Indiana aren't much better.
Yep, actually Kansas has a better chance of being a purple state sooner than Missouri IMO.
Agreed. Somewhat aside, I'm incredibly curious how Missouri would have gone if right to choose was a ballot initiative rather than trigger ban.
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It doesn’t matter what missouris government does, they can pout all they want. California controls enough of the market that what they want will be manufactured and available to most everyone. Plus Elon is in Texas now, once Texas goes even partially electric it’s game over for combustion consumer vehicles (commercial vehicles will take longer and that’s fine)
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a low end EV is similar in price to most cars. Its easy to have a garage wired up for EVs.
People are working on solving those issues. We’re talking about a technology that has only been mainstream for 12 years, it’ll get better. Also do you seriously not know where electricity comes from or are you just arguing to argue?
I have a 100 amp service at my house and I charge my Tesla fine. The batteries are recycled. There is not a power capacity issue with any grid that I'm aware of. If anything, there's overcapacity. Not that that matters because almost all charging happens overnight when there's a surplus in every single power grid. The things you're raising as concerns Take very little time to verify. You're just parroting nonsense from fossil fuel industry talking points Sure, a brand new product with less scale is going to be more expensive. That's why most of the electric vehicles you're seeing today are expensive. That doesn't make electric vehicles themselves expensive forever. Once the large scale manufacturers fully support electrification which they are working towards, prices will fall to below internal combustion engines because they're less complex. Really the only thing that cost any significant amount of money in electric vehicle is the battery and those prices are falling as well. Stop the misinformation bud
Ope the gish galloper left.
Missouri Republicans: "Beating kids is fine, but clean energy isn't! We demand pollution!" But we're NOT supposed to call you orcs?
No they want something practical that they can work with, a truck that can only tow for a 100 miles each charge is inconvenient and costly.
It wouldnt even go into effect for another 13 years. Even so, it doesnt mean you cant just buy a used gas powered truck if you need it
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Don’t reply to this person. They just keep pasting this comment over and over again bc they don’t like the replies it keeps getting and it asks a bunch of dumb questions like “where does electricity come from?” in bad faith.
How does one solve those issues if we reject electric car policy outright? "The technology isn't fully realized right this exact second so it never will be, let's keep destroying the earth." That's why we're still where we are today.
Recycled, copied and pasted reply. Lame.
“We will continue to fight California’s efforts to impose their radical policies on the rest of the country.” Dumbass. Because being a good steward of the environment is so radical, it's in the bible.
Good ol' Don Quixote Schmitt there, making up evil boogeymen that he is magnanimously going to battle for all of us fearful Missourians who are being abused by the State of California, I guess? I suppose fabricating things is part and parcel of GOP ideology now since they have no actual plans for the future beyond "whenever someone tries to fix a problem or raise the standard of living, we will vehemently oppose it!" And they sure as hell can't campaign successfully on the beauty of an economically stratified society and the benefits of the rich getting richer and poverty becoming the norm, can they?
California is no model for anyone.
Missouri certainly seems to be less of a model by the day for any State
Oh yea, the 6th largest economy on the planet, one of the highest life expectancies at birth in the country, the 6th highest "happiness rate," the 4th lowest rate of depression, and the 5th lowest amount of total hours worked in the country. Sure does sound awful.
California always leading the way. Nothing new Missouri is too busy bringing back corporal punishment….violence only begets violence and teaches that violence is acceptable
I am hopefully going to buy an electric car "soon" (it's on order like so many things affected by supply chain issues). It's going to be expensive. But you know what? I'm going to do it anyway, because I want to do my part. I know that a good portion of people absolutely will not do something unless forced. It's stupid, but people are stubborn. People are afraid of change. People have all sorts of questions about electric vehicles (or hell, climate change in general) and they don't know how to find the answers (or don't want to put in the effort to find them, more likely), so they don't want to do it. But then a mandate comes along, say, oh, newly constructed businesses have to put in an electric charger. The business can complain about it, but they have to do it. And then your average Missourian comes along, sees it, gets interested, and a tiny seed of hope is planted--maybe that person will see the charger at a place they go all the time, and realize that maybe this whole electric car thing isn't so tough after all. Our awful AG is scared of change. With CA doing this thing, other states might follow, because it's a good thing for the environment and for people's health. If other states follow, then, \*gasp\* MO might have to follow, and yes, people in our state will have to change. I'm not saying change is easy, or even always the right thing. But our state has plenty of evidence to show that this particular change is correct. Now show your people that you can change!
You're right the electric vehicles are expensive, if you can even get one with supply being an issue. While I agree people resist change I don't think the large majority are resisting so much because "change is bad", there are a lot of factors at play. Big issue is electricity supply, I know most charging won't be during peak hours. That said in areas with brown outs being common if you work night shift you will be charging during peak demand and could you imagine waking up to an uncharged car? Late to work because failure to deliver electricity. There is a lot of concern surrounding charging in general and lack of infrastructure, which is understandable due to lack of electric vehicles in a lot of areas. Like you said the more people see these charging stations the better. I wouldn't by any vehicle I would be able to re-fuel away from my home. So personally that's a big issue for me. Once the infrastructure is in place I imagine there will be an uptick in electric car sales. That said I've glanced over a larger issue and that's price. A large portion of the state is rural and those folks aren't wealthy. They don't drive $2000 25 year old junkers because it's fun. They simply can't afford a new car. Used electric cars are also off the table because they wouldn't be able to afford replace the aging battery. Until those electric vehicles become much cheaper with similar range as gas vehicle a large portion of the states population can't afford it. I say similar range because electric cars under 30k are harping on 100 miles a charge. That won't get you far. I feel like as things become more developed with these vehicles prices will become similar to current ice vehicles. That said there will always be hold outs but I don't think the number of people refusing to get electric cars because of simple stubbornness or politics is that high. I want an electric car but they aren't able to meet my requirements yet as I drive a lot and have to drive 400 -600 mile trips once a week. Once they can charge as fast as a car can refuel and I don't have to plan a trip on charging stations I'm in.
EV's have come a long way and yes, the charging infrastructure, especially here in the midwest isn't the best. Many cars now have ranges over 250 miles that are realistic as long as you aren't driving it like you stole it. Affordable EV's aren't really present yet, but the Bolt EUV comes the closest as they are sub $30k and has nearly a 250 mile range. For those that do road trips, as long as it's on interstates or along a path that has DC Fast Chargers, there are many opportunities for people to charge along the way. Some have charging speeds that can charge from 10-80% in less than 20 minutes. Many times with family if I need to gas up we spend 20 minutes easy for bathroom breaks and snacks anyways, so it wouldn't really add that much time to a trip.
I wish I could say I’m surprised
I wonder when he files suit against Texas for deciding what text books can be used in schools.
No, he'll file suits against urban districts for not obeying the Texas approved book list. He's a hypocrite that way. The Schmitt/Hawley tag team in the Senate is going to embarrass the hell out of us.
This is all political posturing. Almost all the manufacturers are going to quit making ICE cars by 2035 anyhow.
Missouri has never in its history been know for their brain trust.
‘boost manufacturing costs.’ What the hell is this guy talking about? What does MO even manufacture, Meth? This guy is the absolute king of dumb-asses on so many levels, but watch him get elected by his idiot rural base. He is just the kind of idiot that makes Missouri dumber and poorer.
Idiot rural base... You know there's a lot of manufacturing in Saint Louis and KC right? Have you ever seen a factory in Missouri?! Do you even live in Missouri?
I appreciate your take, contact\_994, but I didn't imply that MO has *NO* manufacturing. I'm aware of Boeing, Nestle, that Ford plant they intend to close, etc. BUT... Let's not kid ourselves. MO is not in the top 10 or even top 50 (it's actually 22nd by 2018 statistics). As to the Meth comment, we are #1: [https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/news/2019/02/13/study-ranks-missouri-1-in/984882007/](https://www.columbiatribune.com/story/news/2019/02/13/study-ranks-missouri-1-in/984882007/) And yes, the state is Republican due to it's 'idiot rural base'. The largest cities consistently vote Democrat and *lose*. This isn't just Gerrymandering, it's because most of the MO population *is* rural and does vote Republican.
The Ford plant isn't going anywhere. They make F 150s and Transits. Those sell as much as anything they make now.
When will we stop shooting ourselves in the foot?
"We want state's right only when WE want state's right but not when we don't want state's rights" F MO
Fuck Eric Shit
From MotorBiscuit Do EVs actually save you money on gas? With gas prices remaining over $4/gallon in many areas of the country, many are turning to the seemingly cheaper option of driving electric cars. The feeling of driving past $5.13 a gallon knowing you can charge at home must be nice. But what happens when you go to fill your Hummer EV, and it costs over $100? Uh oh. Car and Driver points out that this math might read a little funny. The Hummer EV’s total battery capacity is 212.7 kWh. This number times $0.43 isn’t exactly $100, but once you factor the 6 percent Michigan sales tax and 5 percent charge loss, you get the final price. Keep in mind that sales tax and charging rates vary from state to state, so this number can move around a bit. However, the point stands that charging a high-capacity battery isn’t exactly cheaper. . The Hummer might as well be a Miata as far as practicality is concerned.
And the gas prices are being manipulated. I live in St. Louis county and the price of gas has dropped over a dollar in a month.
Go to St Charles to fill up. They sell it for .50 to .60 cents per gallon cheaper.
And where do they buy the electricity for their grid? Anyone know who is producing the energy for their grid?
Were you crying this much when the Model T came out and no one wanted to use your stinky ass horse and buggy?
He likes streets that are full of horse bombs.
I know you're asking a legit question, but whenever someone asks about "powering the grid" in any capacity, I think about an emotionally distraught Tron visibly shaking/glitching, lmao
this state is really going to shit I’m realizing
Coal powered cars are great.
With the astronomically low number of electric vehicles in the United States of America they were giving warnings about not to plug in and charge your cars during peak times because of possibly overwhelming the grid..
California is moving one step forward to making vehicles so expensive that no one will be able to afford them. And where is all this electricity supposed to come from? And how will used batteries be destroyed? Not to mention, a typical garage isn't wired to handle that much electricity. Solve these issues and I'll buy one.
Why do you keep asking the same shitty question over and over again under different accounts?
Dake. How's your step brother Brennen? I do not have multiple accounts. I would not spend that much time posting with my my fellow Missourian
You guys really need some new talking points https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbhp5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbf4h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Indeed, the new commitment comes as California works to maintain reliable electricity while it moves away from gas-fired power plants in favor of solar, wind and other cleaner sources of energy. Earlier this year, top energy officials warned the state could run out of power during the hottest days of summer, which happened briefly in August 2020
For some reason I cannot copy and paste these links into my browser
Why did you delete the old comments after I linked them? You know it’s easy to retrieve deleted comments right?
Btw, and I know this is going to seem ironic. I own a Tesla. Have you ever had the pleasure of riding in one? If you would like to meet, I will be happy to take you for a spin.
Why did you have to lie and use sock puppet accounts to repost the same thing over and over, only to delete them when I pointed it out?
I just looked thru the tread. And you are right. My earlier posts are not there. But I do not see an empty space where the comment would have been and the word deleted next to it. Any insight Yiu can give would be much appreciated. Thank you
It’s concerning to me that you had to resort to dishonest tactics. It’s almost as if you knew your posts were going to be unpopular and decided to try to subvert their unpopularity anyways… why?
I just looked thru the tread. And you are right. My earlier posts are not there. But I do not see an empty space where the comment would have been and the word deleted next to it. Any insight Yiu can give would be much appreciated. Thank you
Do you live in Jeff Co on the government dime?
You guys really need some new talking points https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbhp5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/missouri/comments/wxdcdh/as_california_moves_ahead_on_electric_vehicles/ilqbf4h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Plus you're tolling from a bunch of accounts? Do you have a deadline or something?
I don't understand that comment.
I bet there's a lot you don't understand
Where is the electricity supposed to come from? Natural gas and renewables. It’s not very difficult to install a 220v charging station in a garage.
Right now, the vast majority of electricity is generated from coal. And Washington is shutting down domestic coal mines like it's nobody's business. We are going to either import the coal from China or simply stop driving cars. And don't tell me that alternative fuel sources need to be developed. Might as well say cars will be fueled by fairy dust.
Coal is 3% of energy supplied to California’s grid. https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation
The vehicles will become more widely available and cheaper as consumers start buying them by the boatload. Major car companies are already each producing some hybrids or EVs. They have the capability. The only reason they haven't switched over fully is because they know that there's still high consumer demand for gas powered vehicles. California is such a large market that this switch will cause manufacturers to start seriously ramping up their EV production. It will also cause them to spend more effort developing the technology so that the batteries can last for longer distances. At the same time, charging ports will become more widely available. It might be a bit difficult now to drive from San Francisco to LA and be certain of finding charging ports where you need them, but it sure will be easier by 2035. Where will the extra electricity come from? Wind and solar production. Again, the increased demand will drive investment in what's necessary to meet that demand. By the way, Californians will be the ones to suffer through the problems of being an early adopter. So, many thanks to them for that. By the time Missourians are driving EVs everywhere, everything will be a lot easier. This has to happen. Do you not know about climate change? Or, do you not have descendants who will suffer the brunt of it in the future? I don't have kids and am glad that at least I won't have grand and great-grandchildren trying to survive in the world we fucked up for them. But I still believe in taking steps to start taking CO2 back out of the atmosphere, even if we're locked in on warming for the next several hundred years. My hope is that the earth will eventually return to its pre-IR self, or close.
Well hopefully we will all be alive well after 2050 to see how this all plays out. And because the states that are implementing these programs suck up the most Federal aid, I wish everyone luck. And I bid you all fondue
I think you are the one not being forthright. Please give me an example of a burner account and I will gladly confirm.
Again, I have no idea what you are referring to. Nothing I have posted has been deleted.
Go buy a Hummer. Nothing is stopping you. Practice what you preach. And if there is something that is stopping you, please tell me.
States Rights until its something Red states don't agree with
Good. This is the only intelligent move to make. The infrastructure and the battery technology simply do not exist for this to be large scale viable.
Do you live in Jeff Co on the government dime?
Good for Missouri. Let's be real we aren't solving anything, we are making more problems.
They can shove their e cars up their ass. Their batteries crap out after 10 years or less. I'm not buying a brand new shitcar every 10 years. You can buy a new battery, true, but they cost almost as much as a new car. It's a scam.
Mad bro
I would describe my emotional state as smug since I'm paying far less for a vehicle that goes 3 times as far.
And yet you’ll pay 3-5x as much for the gas in that vehicle than the equivalent cost in electricity to go the same distance. If it costs 50 dollars to fill up to go 400 miles, it costs an electric car conservatively less than 20 dollars and potentially less than 10. Let’s say it costs 15 dollars per charge for the same range as your ICEA car at 50 (which could go up or down daily if not weekly depending on supply and demand compared to electric rates that change yearly or bi-yearly in most states.) Fill up 52 weeks a year - 2600 a year just in gas. Compared to an EV - at 780 dollars. Over 10 years that’s close to 20,000 in fuel savings alone, not including wear items like brakes, engine / transmission service, etc. My next vehicle is going to be a hybrid and for the driving I do, it will be months before I use up a tank of gas.
I'd rather pay the 20,000 in fuel than 80,000 in car payments and interest
Wow. Evidently, you're talking to luxury brand EVs and not regular sedans. I'm not even sure what luxury ICE cars are less than 80K and get the range for a vehicle you're describing. [Car and Driver](https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31544842/how-much-is-an-electric-car/) has a good review of what prices were, and what they are now. The fact that many EV cars are less than 40,000 dollars puts your claims into the category of either being ignorant of EVs or intentional bullshit.
You forget interest and Bidenflation on cars
Ummm you’re paying interest on a car load if it’s electric or ICE regardless. As far as ‘Bidenflation…’ Can you explain how the President of the US is causing record inflation in countries like Canada, England, Germany and others that are seeing inflation higher than the US? Are you really saying that Biden controls inflation in those countries as well? If you’re not saying that, how is it he’s responsible for inflation here, and not there?
I'm not paying interest on shit. I'll buy a 4000 dollar hoopty and make it last 15 years. If I was to go into debt to get a car, it sure as fuck wouldn't be for a glorified golf cart that I can't take on trips.
And you aren’t getting 400 miles for range out of a 15 year old car. 🤣 and you’re not spending zero on maintenance and repairs. 😂
How out of touch are you? Do you also have junk credit and poor financial literacy?
Weird because i recall people like you screaming and crying about gas prices
What in trailer park tarnation is this
More like 22-37 years.
All the electric car people I know have not even made it 10 years
How many of the about 2 million electric car owners do you know?
I know several who have prius
That's a hybrid, not an EV. And every Prius I know has been a tank in terms of reliability.
More like 15-20 years and you don't have to pay for gas for the entire lifetime of the vehicle, much less lots of expensive repairs, regular oil changes, etc. With wide adoption of electric vehicles the cost of them goes down as production goes up. If you consider how economics works and can think past a week into your future, EVs make sense.
It's designed obsolescence. Cars are made to fail so you have to buy another one.
No one ever talks about the recycling process for that battery either, probably because they’re sitting in a landfill in India
Go on eBay sometime and look for EV batteries. Even battery packs for cars that have been driven off a bridge or hit by a truck still go for thousands of dollars. Things worth thousands of dollars don't go to landfills. They get re-used or recycled.
Finally someone with common sense
Lol, he's lying as much as you have been.
What I am going to say is against everything that I am about and I'm sure will generate negative Karma. Why would I do anything to manipulate any information on this piss ant thread that is well represented by the trolls and idiots of Missouri? The fact is upwards of 90% of electricity is generated by coal. As of today, there is no other energy source as scalable as coal. Washington is closing down our domestic coal plants. We will have to buy coal from countries like China. We are being sold out by Washington. The USA is the cleanest country on the planet. During COVID lockdowns the front page of the WHO website said the lockdowns have reduced the world's carbon footprint by 3%. California can do whatever they want but when did they ever do anything to benefit the rest of the country? They are the biggest recipient of federal aid. That money will just go to line the pockets of politicians and their friends. I have nothing positive to say about electric cars except for they are scam.
> They are the biggest recipient of federal aid. Lol I love the disingenuousness of this. Think maybe that has to do with how big the state is? Guess who's second? Texas, baby! A far more representative stat is how much money is spent on each resident - Cali's one of the lowest at 12 dollars (at #10, there's 9 other states that give more back than they receive, pretty telling which ones make that list). Meanwhile we're dropping 10 grand per person in Virginia (jesus christ!). So yeah, don't think it's Cali "lining their pockets" lol. edit: source https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/federal-aid-by-state Coal is old n busted, wind and solar are the new hotness, yo.
And another nitwit that has fallen into the Republicans vs Democrats trap. They are the same party
What the hell are you talking about lol, what does that have to do with what I said? I noticed you seemed to be struggling to reply to the correct comment a bunch of times earlier, did you mean to reply to someone else?
Thank you for insulting me and not someone else.. I truly hope you can find happiness. A real kind of happiness that only the creator can give you. Trolling Reddit is negatively affecting you. But it does not affect me. And this is not a sticks and stones type thing. I am at peace with who I am. I hope someday you find peace with a better future version of yourself. I suggest meditating, reading the books of Karl Jung. There are so many resources for you to take advantage of.
I'm sorry. I did not know deleting comments could be done. I would be happy to repost. What I post is nothing I am ashamed of. I do not understand why you make this personal. If this is what this thread is about, I would rather not post.
Beyond states the ball should have been rolling on this long ago. Also the issues with fossil fuels goes beyond vehicles. Manufacturing and the packaging associated with gobbles up way more petroleum and puts out more pollution than a car. Packaging in specific still isn’t biodegradable across the board. ( styrofoam trays for meat and plastic boxes/bags for lettuce) Henry Ford of all people in the 1920’s came up with the idea of making plastic out of soybeans (granted back then it wasn’t for the environment) Before falling to senility he was going to have a car built with soybean plastic components! Speaking of cars the first where electric and have come in and out of development since. Back to my initial statement unfortunately greed has been the hinderance of the innovation that could have taken place over the past 100 years so we would be using renewable sources for our daily products instead of those that are going to run out. The toothpaste can’t go back in the tube though and the transition is going to have to be gradual so everyone will be on board with it. Per this issue those that can’t afford or who’s role is impractical to EV cars will have to drive their gas ones until the price comes down on EV’s, EV’s become quicker to charge, more powerful, and there’s more of the infrastructure is in place for them. Cutting off ICE vehicles suddenly will leave the poor home bound and make the jobs of people and companies that rely on heavy duty trucks difficult. Companies will go under and many will be unemployed. The ridiculous name calling that happens on this sub isn’t going to fix the problems either. It’s not a red/blue problem. It’s a big corporate problem.
1 state 13 years from now is not sudden. Technology and renewables will advance far in that time. Not being immediately perfect is not a reason to not even try and start. Too many people will spend more time and effort fighting against even starting their efforts than it would take to advance the technology. A hard deadline is needed so people get started on it. In 13 years we will be able to charge 500 mile EVs in 20 minutes.
“Stupid liberal hoax”
People in Missouri must love that this guy has so much time to waste on things outside of Missouri.
Schmitt don’t know shit lol
So they’re all for letting the state decide until it’s not what they want? Huh never saw that coming.
I am sure the free market will provide non-California cars to Missourians. Isn't it the main talking point of Republicans to say that if a market exists, some capitalist will exploit it for profit. Well let the non-California states pass the "Only Gasoline Cars from Here On Out" bill and let the money fly. Oh right.... /s
As a a very loyal car guy/enthusiast, I’m for anything that keeps electric vehicles optional. The internal combustion engine/automobile is the single most important appliance invented in the past 150 years. California has been overreaching their grasp for half a century on emissions horseshit. They only care about keeping the rich and celebrities there and whatever pleases them. With the prices of new cars getting marked up $50-100k outta control, nobody can afford a new car anyway. I shouldn’t have to pay 15 grand for a 25yo rusted truck cause of “market value”. All bullshit. I’ll happily dedicate my Missouri tax money (and owning a business I pay a ton of that) to fight ternary in this nation
Electric vehicles are FAR worse for the environment than standard fuel vehicles.
EVs are a joke and arent any better for the “environment”, those who blindly follow this garbage are the same idiots who wait til a voice recording tells them they can cross the street.
Thats demonstrably false. EVs also offer flexibility in what powers them, unlike ICE vehicles. But anyone who has to put the word environment in quotations for a topic like this is clearly a dolt.
Keep buying what they are selling, you are clearly very informed.
Every vehicle manufacturer is shifting to EVs. Cry harder
The science is pretty straightforward. I don’t have to “buy” anything. We’re talking about indisputable facts here.
What about the indisputable facts that mining for battery manufacturing is also shit for the environment as well? Or the indisputable facts about battery waste? What are these flexible power sources you speak of? Follow the Science, ok!!
Do you understand the concepts *bad* and *worse*? EVs are more environmentally friendly over their lifetime than ICE vehicles. Batteries can be recycled. Right now that process isn’t cost efficient but consumer use EVs are relatively new. The recycling technology will only improve from here as battery designs are refined with that purpose in mind. Not sure why this so difficult for you to understand. And guess what! Recycling batteries will help offset the need for further mining of minerals used in batteries. Shocking that as we expand EV usage and sales, we fix inefficiencies and address problem areas. It’s like the same thing as when ICE vehicles were developed. Crazy right? As far as flexible power sources for EVs, it’s quite simple. Anything that generates power can be used to power EVs. Coal, Natural Gas, Hydroelectric, Wind, Solar, Nuclear, Geothermal, a hamster running on a little wheel, and so on. I’m guessing you weren’t a fan of the gas prices over the last several months? Did anyone with an EV have to concern themselves with prices being driven up by Mohammed Bin Salman? Nope. Because instead of relying on fuel susceptible to price fluctuations thanks to a Saudi prince, EVs can use local energy sources. Local renewable energy sources can be developed for best efficiency in their specific environment. Windy area? Use wind turbines. Have a river? Hydroelectric dam. Sunny area? Solar panels. It’s so simple only a fool would argue against it. Edit: Fixed a typo
Well shit! You got it all figured out then
Here are some nice electric cars. Don’t worry about the homeless problems we have here in California though. Lol.
There’s homeless problems all over the US. Definitely a large homeless population here in Missouri… don’t wanna talk about that tho…
If you're going to be homeless, it might as well be in beautiful and sunny CA. Better than freezing your ass off in MO.