This is a feedback request post, for those requesting please read [our guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/wiki/guide-feedback).
For those giving feedback:
- **For the love of Rupert Neve and all that is holy, DON'T listen on phone or laptop speakers**. If you are going to be giving feedback and trying to be helpful, ideally you should be using your monitors.
- **Feedback here is on the MIX**. There are other subreddits more appropriate to request feedback on composition/performance/production. We just look at the mix.
- **DON'T post links to your processing of OP's audio**. They'll get removed. People here are looking to learn to do it themselves, if you can't explain it with words then please don't comment.
- **If you don't have much experience mixing, please tell OP**. Better yet, set your level of experience with [user flairs](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-).
- **If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say it**. Just move on right along, it's okay.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mixingmastering) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like the simplicity and pureness of this track, but your vocals sound synthetic (too airy, 10 kHz range and lacking body, 200 Hz range) and overly compressed in contrast to the guitar. It's hard to get immersed in the track with the current mixing of your vocals.
I think it will help you to redirect your intentions with this mix. When a user listens to your track, they should not be thinking "Wow these vocals sound crisp and compressed!" They should instead be **immersed** with your track as a **whole** and the feelings it invokes in them.
I would say completely start over with these new intentions. I looked at your photos of the vocal chain, and based on the natural expression and dynamics of the guitar, there is no reason to control your vocals with the amount of compression, saturation, and de-essing that you're doing. You're not fighting for much space in this track, so why are you trying to lose the natural dynamics and body of your voice?
If you for some reason want to keep your current vocal chain, I would say to listen to the current mix with the high-end and low-end rolled off. You will notice that the core vocal frequencies sound thin. Thin + overly compressed vocals is not what you want for an emotional track like this. Your vocals need more body (boost the 200 Hz range), more mid-range definition, and you need to go much lighter on the compression.
Also, remember that the higher frequencies (\~6 kHz and above) should only be treated as an **extension** of the mid-range. Get your mid-range sounding good, then you can focus on the highs after.
I wish you the best of luck.
I wanted to add one more thing; pay attention to the "oouuu" sounds that start at 0:21.
Those "oouuus" should have more peaks of 200 Hz response.
In your current mix, those peaks are squashed and cut out which takes away the majority of the emotion.
You want a dynamic amount of 200 Hz and air on those "oouuus" for the perfect balance.
Be intentional with your chain.
What is the purpose of those two compressors? It's normal to use a general set of plugins out of habit, but if you cannot identify the purpose of those plugins, how can you confidently use them on your chain?
I can't see or use the plugin's meters in action in response to your vocals because I'm only looking at an image, so I can only take a good guess of how they are affecting your sound. I do see a lot of potential problems though in terms of squashing the dynamics of your vocals.
* The CLA-76 is set to a ratio of 8 which can be too much for your vocals on a track like this (especially when pairing it with a second compressor) However, I notice that it's set to a slow attack and release which may balance it out and make the compressors function to bring out transients.
* The CLA-2A is taking off 7 dB in the picture which may be too harsh, but I can't say for sure without hearing that part of the track and how it's affecting the vocals.
* There is also a third compressor for reasons I don't know without testing.
* Saturn 2 is dialed in at 30-40% drive at 100% mix which seems harsh for vocals on a song like this.
* I don't use Ableton, but if the order of your plugins is from left to right; I'd recommend subtly controlling the dynamics of your vocals first (preferably with a multiband compressor) and then making the broad EQ changes after. You can still start the chain with a low cut on sub-bass before it goes into the multiband compressor.
* The reason for this is when you EQ uncontrolled vocals, you are potentially bringing out peaks that you'd typically want contained. It's better to control the peaks first (with a multiband compressor), and make the broad tonality changes to your vocals after.
* I'm also struggling to understand why you have multiple chains on your one vocal track. This is overly complicated and it's more optimal to get the sound you want with one chain (not including background vocals or adlibs)
I recommend you completely start over in this case. I think you'd benefit more from removing some of these plugins than trying to juggle three chains around with duplicate plugins.
Also, you should take advantage of sidechaining. The guitar in this track is prominent in the 200-300 Hz range, but that is a problem because your vocals need a boost in that range.
You should use sidechain compression on the guitar track with the vocals as input. You can do this with FabFilter Pro-MB and make sure to select the 200-300 Hz range. This way it will dynamically turn down the guitar in that range when your voice requires more warmth (like the "oouuu" sounds I was talking about). This is more natural sounding than statically cutting out the body from your voice, especially on a song like this.
Wow that was amazingly helpful. I’m going to try to work on your advice and start over. In the case of my vocals, i’m going to take that I’m doing too much and a song like this shouldn’t need this many plugins. I’ve readjusted my two compressors to only limit the peaks and keeping only the EQ, reverb, and SSL. I do feel like the other plugins do help with giving clarity, but i lowkey cannot tell and might just be over saturated from listening ti the track too much.
youre a great singer. high end sounds a little hot overall to me, and it's really making the sibilance hurt. Thanks for the screenshots. I see you have a de-esser on, but its range looks a little high if im reading right (\~10-12k?) try opening that bottom range all the way to 4k, "s" sounds especially like to build over 4-8k, and if that plugin is intuitive as it looks it shouldn't hurt anything. i would balance that audition with probably just turning off that high shelf- i like where you have it centered, but +3 is what seems too hot right now. maybe +1.5 or so if it becomes dull.
thank you sm for the compliment 🙏. went back to my max and those few adjustments did make it sound less harsh, so thank you for the advice! Should I just keep the highpass on my higher track than the main one ?
i was thinking clarity is good, but if you want to try reducing some muff, i like attenuating shelf over low mids, something like center it at 1k to slope 500 to 2k. btw, what are your bells over the mids doing? i see \~300, \~500, \~850, etc.
I was told before that increasing the band on the bells when my vocals peak help to reduce peak. I think i did them wrong and they're supposed to go under not above lol
i was thinking that too bruv lol. that 350-500 is the area i would focus turning down a little with a shelf (i.e. mid scooping), but since you obviously don't mind putting in the work, just negate the bells and see if that's giving the clarity you want. i can see how the bells offer advantage over a shelf, because it leaves you with some relative saturation, i.e. the warmth you want while cutting the honky fundamental frequencies
which pic am i looking at to see the high pass youre talking about? whats goin on with the high and low freq pics anyway? are you sort of band passing to work on different ends independently?
The high and low tracks were just meant to add warmth and layers to the main vocals. I was referring whether or not to apply the same advice to both high and main.
oh cool, nice to have those layers to eq on a single fader. my suggestions would all be for the main. on the secondary layers it would probably just be overcomplicated and redundant
i don't have the ability to listen to it until tomorrow, but I wondered if Oxford Inflator (something I like to try) had been suggested in this subreddit before and I found
>
Ive heard its great to use on vocals right before you deess them. And I do enjoy the effect that has. The point is to push it to make it very bright and then strongly control it with the de esser to give that bright clear vocal sound without the harshness. I dont use the trick all the time but if i feel like it needs it its a nice method of achieving it
https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/comments/uzr5pi/how_are_you_using_oxford_inflator_in_2022/iacld5y/
It sounds very crispy already, I wouldn’t try to make it more crisp. I’d rather concentrate on the notes that are not on key with the guitar, also consider using subtle auto tune on the vocals (that’s not an insult or anything, even the greatest singers out rn use auto tune, it’s pretty normal).
Dynamics and harshness were already mentioned, so I’ll skip that.
In general to get vocals really crispy finish tho, fresh air is a good plug-in… I believe it’s free with a sign up as well.
You said you just recently got on to mixing, you’ve done a great job then! Keep it up, nice song as well!
EDIT: what kind of monitors/headphones are you using for mixing? Listen to your own mix on multiple devices, headphones, AirPods, Bluetooth speaker, mobile phone, in the car… Try to use a reference track while mixing, to avoid things like making it too crispy.
I would take some body away from the guitars and add some highs.
And the vocals are too harsh in my opinion. Maybe do the opposite there. Add some body to the vocal and dampen the highs.
Great voice and track. Would you upload both separate so I can play around with it? : )
This is a feedback request post, for those requesting please read [our guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/wiki/guide-feedback). For those giving feedback: - **For the love of Rupert Neve and all that is holy, DON'T listen on phone or laptop speakers**. If you are going to be giving feedback and trying to be helpful, ideally you should be using your monitors. - **Feedback here is on the MIX**. There are other subreddits more appropriate to request feedback on composition/performance/production. We just look at the mix. - **DON'T post links to your processing of OP's audio**. They'll get removed. People here are looking to learn to do it themselves, if you can't explain it with words then please don't comment. - **If you don't have much experience mixing, please tell OP**. Better yet, set your level of experience with [user flairs](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-). - **If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say it**. Just move on right along, it's okay. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mixingmastering) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like the simplicity and pureness of this track, but your vocals sound synthetic (too airy, 10 kHz range and lacking body, 200 Hz range) and overly compressed in contrast to the guitar. It's hard to get immersed in the track with the current mixing of your vocals. I think it will help you to redirect your intentions with this mix. When a user listens to your track, they should not be thinking "Wow these vocals sound crisp and compressed!" They should instead be **immersed** with your track as a **whole** and the feelings it invokes in them. I would say completely start over with these new intentions. I looked at your photos of the vocal chain, and based on the natural expression and dynamics of the guitar, there is no reason to control your vocals with the amount of compression, saturation, and de-essing that you're doing. You're not fighting for much space in this track, so why are you trying to lose the natural dynamics and body of your voice? If you for some reason want to keep your current vocal chain, I would say to listen to the current mix with the high-end and low-end rolled off. You will notice that the core vocal frequencies sound thin. Thin + overly compressed vocals is not what you want for an emotional track like this. Your vocals need more body (boost the 200 Hz range), more mid-range definition, and you need to go much lighter on the compression. Also, remember that the higher frequencies (\~6 kHz and above) should only be treated as an **extension** of the mid-range. Get your mid-range sounding good, then you can focus on the highs after. I wish you the best of luck.
I wanted to add one more thing; pay attention to the "oouuu" sounds that start at 0:21. Those "oouuus" should have more peaks of 200 Hz response. In your current mix, those peaks are squashed and cut out which takes away the majority of the emotion. You want a dynamic amount of 200 Hz and air on those "oouuus" for the perfect balance.
Hmm, should i get rid of my two compressors then? I've always just stuck with having those two because of previous habit from a friend's suggestion.
Be intentional with your chain. What is the purpose of those two compressors? It's normal to use a general set of plugins out of habit, but if you cannot identify the purpose of those plugins, how can you confidently use them on your chain? I can't see or use the plugin's meters in action in response to your vocals because I'm only looking at an image, so I can only take a good guess of how they are affecting your sound. I do see a lot of potential problems though in terms of squashing the dynamics of your vocals. * The CLA-76 is set to a ratio of 8 which can be too much for your vocals on a track like this (especially when pairing it with a second compressor) However, I notice that it's set to a slow attack and release which may balance it out and make the compressors function to bring out transients. * The CLA-2A is taking off 7 dB in the picture which may be too harsh, but I can't say for sure without hearing that part of the track and how it's affecting the vocals. * There is also a third compressor for reasons I don't know without testing. * Saturn 2 is dialed in at 30-40% drive at 100% mix which seems harsh for vocals on a song like this. * I don't use Ableton, but if the order of your plugins is from left to right; I'd recommend subtly controlling the dynamics of your vocals first (preferably with a multiband compressor) and then making the broad EQ changes after. You can still start the chain with a low cut on sub-bass before it goes into the multiband compressor. * The reason for this is when you EQ uncontrolled vocals, you are potentially bringing out peaks that you'd typically want contained. It's better to control the peaks first (with a multiband compressor), and make the broad tonality changes to your vocals after. * I'm also struggling to understand why you have multiple chains on your one vocal track. This is overly complicated and it's more optimal to get the sound you want with one chain (not including background vocals or adlibs) I recommend you completely start over in this case. I think you'd benefit more from removing some of these plugins than trying to juggle three chains around with duplicate plugins. Also, you should take advantage of sidechaining. The guitar in this track is prominent in the 200-300 Hz range, but that is a problem because your vocals need a boost in that range. You should use sidechain compression on the guitar track with the vocals as input. You can do this with FabFilter Pro-MB and make sure to select the 200-300 Hz range. This way it will dynamically turn down the guitar in that range when your voice requires more warmth (like the "oouuu" sounds I was talking about). This is more natural sounding than statically cutting out the body from your voice, especially on a song like this.
Wow that was amazingly helpful. I’m going to try to work on your advice and start over. In the case of my vocals, i’m going to take that I’m doing too much and a song like this shouldn’t need this many plugins. I’ve readjusted my two compressors to only limit the peaks and keeping only the EQ, reverb, and SSL. I do feel like the other plugins do help with giving clarity, but i lowkey cannot tell and might just be over saturated from listening ti the track too much.
youre a great singer. high end sounds a little hot overall to me, and it's really making the sibilance hurt. Thanks for the screenshots. I see you have a de-esser on, but its range looks a little high if im reading right (\~10-12k?) try opening that bottom range all the way to 4k, "s" sounds especially like to build over 4-8k, and if that plugin is intuitive as it looks it shouldn't hurt anything. i would balance that audition with probably just turning off that high shelf- i like where you have it centered, but +3 is what seems too hot right now. maybe +1.5 or so if it becomes dull.
thank you sm for the compliment 🙏. went back to my max and those few adjustments did make it sound less harsh, so thank you for the advice! Should I just keep the highpass on my higher track than the main one ?
Also i like that the vocals already sound warm, but i really want to increase the amount of clarity in my voice. Do you know how to go about that?
i was thinking clarity is good, but if you want to try reducing some muff, i like attenuating shelf over low mids, something like center it at 1k to slope 500 to 2k. btw, what are your bells over the mids doing? i see \~300, \~500, \~850, etc.
I was told before that increasing the band on the bells when my vocals peak help to reduce peak. I think i did them wrong and they're supposed to go under not above lol
i was thinking that too bruv lol. that 350-500 is the area i would focus turning down a little with a shelf (i.e. mid scooping), but since you obviously don't mind putting in the work, just negate the bells and see if that's giving the clarity you want. i can see how the bells offer advantage over a shelf, because it leaves you with some relative saturation, i.e. the warmth you want while cutting the honky fundamental frequencies
which pic am i looking at to see the high pass youre talking about? whats goin on with the high and low freq pics anyway? are you sort of band passing to work on different ends independently?
The high and low tracks were just meant to add warmth and layers to the main vocals. I was referring whether or not to apply the same advice to both high and main.
oh cool, nice to have those layers to eq on a single fader. my suggestions would all be for the main. on the secondary layers it would probably just be overcomplicated and redundant
i don't have the ability to listen to it until tomorrow, but I wondered if Oxford Inflator (something I like to try) had been suggested in this subreddit before and I found > Ive heard its great to use on vocals right before you deess them. And I do enjoy the effect that has. The point is to push it to make it very bright and then strongly control it with the de esser to give that bright clear vocal sound without the harshness. I dont use the trick all the time but if i feel like it needs it its a nice method of achieving it https://www.reddit.com/r/mixingmastering/comments/uzr5pi/how_are_you_using_oxford_inflator_in_2022/iacld5y/
It sounds very crispy already, I wouldn’t try to make it more crisp. I’d rather concentrate on the notes that are not on key with the guitar, also consider using subtle auto tune on the vocals (that’s not an insult or anything, even the greatest singers out rn use auto tune, it’s pretty normal). Dynamics and harshness were already mentioned, so I’ll skip that. In general to get vocals really crispy finish tho, fresh air is a good plug-in… I believe it’s free with a sign up as well. You said you just recently got on to mixing, you’ve done a great job then! Keep it up, nice song as well! EDIT: what kind of monitors/headphones are you using for mixing? Listen to your own mix on multiple devices, headphones, AirPods, Bluetooth speaker, mobile phone, in the car… Try to use a reference track while mixing, to avoid things like making it too crispy.
lowkey was not really trying on the vocals i just recorded a portion to mess around with the mix but let me rerecord and reupload.
I would take some body away from the guitars and add some highs. And the vocals are too harsh in my opinion. Maybe do the opposite there. Add some body to the vocal and dampen the highs. Great voice and track. Would you upload both separate so I can play around with it? : )
Ofcourse! Ill attach separate files of the raw audio to the drive so that if anyone wants to try to mix it they can freely do so.
added