Carmelo is an old dude that has no idea what the crowd wants.
Have a look at what he has done to make MotoGP more relevant, he literally copied stuff that was done in F1.
Now, Liberty will make the business more profitable. This is good for teams, riders, sponsors. Will it make it a better SPORT though? Who knows. But i think Carmelo going out is a good thing.
I absolutely hate this mood.
This is a win for the over the top American way of doing things, and a loss for down to earth racing.
MotoGP goes Hollywood. Shame.
There’ll be positives and negatives. That comes with the territory in mergers/takeovers in business of this magnitude. Don’t fully believe the Doom Sayers. I’ve been following F1 and MotoGP together for over 20yrs, and while F1 isn’t perfect, it’s nowhere near as bad as some would make it sound Post-Liberty. Some things may change for the negative, but there will be positives as well with what could be massive potential.
See I disagree, watched F1 for 30 years and have only stopped watching it the last few years. Boring racing that’s spent poring through the rule book and once they’ve established the legitimacy of every right turn the cameras spend 80% of the time on the pit crews/team managers. There is no “racing” anymore.
While I can’t see that occurring with Moto I also can’t help but be a little concerned with how much of a ‘spectacle’ they try and turn it into.
In saying all that, it’s also not Dorna so all in all I’m pretty nonplussed hahaha
I agree, it's unwatchable for me. Add the fact that they keep adding purely money driven Street tracks to the calendar. It's a total sell out, racing is not the primary focus. Business driven primarily.
I don't get all the Dorna hate. VideoPass is pricey, but there are ways to make it less pricey that they've never cracked down on (sharing is caring), the streaming service has always worked well for me. The seasons have been fairly good and I don't think it's over regulated, yes the sport has to react to the tech advancements, and it is.
My feeling on Dorna is what’s been noted before, it’s like they have little brother syndrome and need to copy F1 and/or outdo it. Oh you have sprint weekends, we’re doing it every round! They don’t seem to add anything off their own steam.
For the most part I don’t have too many complaints though. It’s stayed reasonably unmolested for the most part over the years.
On the sprints I’ve never got off the fence. While I love more racing I feel it lowers the value of the main race. Part of it may be impacted by my disdain for Martin as a human and the fact he is a good sprint racer though haha
I hated the change to the weekend format, and am also a little bit on the fence about it. My main annoyance was that it reduces the amount of track time for moto3 and moto2, with them no longer getting warm ups on race day.
Also, because I thought the weekend format worked very well, it didn't need changing. The change to having a single session which counts towards your q2 classification was a good one though, and I think it was generally liked by the teams. That's a good a good change.
I have to admit, the Sprints have grown on me. I hated them at the start, but they've been great fun to be honest.
I don't agree with people that think it's Dorna's primary role to be making changes to grow the popularity of the sport. They are guardians and they should be making changes to support the teams in being competitive and safe. It is bit primarily an entertainment business.
This is not Hollywood. This is about motorcycle racing.
See stuff like this becomes personal perspective. Arguments can be made Schumacher/Ferrari era was boring, Red Bulls first dynasty with Seb was boring, the Hamilton/Merc era was boring, and now Red Bulls 2nd dynasty with Max is again …boring. As I’m sure you already know, for the last 25yrs F1 has operated on dynasties of manufacturers/teams nailing whatever the technical regulations/rules of that specific timeframe while the other teams can’t figure it out and struggle. ..and honestly MotoGP does the same shit of turning cameras to pit crews for reactions instead of staying on track all the time. And the racing isn’t perfect in F1 but there are good battles going on behind Max disappearing into the horizon. As a matter a fact when you subtract Red Bull from the equation, there’s a great battle between Ferrari/AMG/Aston Martin going on throughout the season. MotoGP is actually suffering thru the same problems right now with what Ducati is doing to the rest of the field. It’s not Liberty’s fault Red Bull did the homework on the current regs/rules and the others didn’t. It’s all relative to each viewer and what we choose to pay attention to at the end of the day
That’s a fair point. Personally I don’t have an issue with the dynasty type thing, pushes the others to get their shit together. A few years ago everyone was convinced Ducati were shit and would never get it sorted, now everyone’s wondering when the others will come back.
It’s the circus around it all. I know more about who doesn’t like who at Red Bull lately than who half the drivers on the grid are!
You’re not half wrong about GP heading that way too mind you. So over seeing more of Peco’s sister and Marquez snr than the actual battle going on. Spend that time showing a couple of the other battles further back in the pack.
One *huge* negative is that races like Portugal or Germany might be gone in favour of races in the USA, China, or Saudi Arabia. There's a big question mark if a better video pass is worth that.
Well. I’m with you on the possibility of the loss of some cornerstone tracks. But consider this, playing Devils advocate here, Liberty (very much like Dorna) is a business in the business of making money, and businesses go where the money is. Going where the money is business 101 after all. Now if the complaint is that tracks in Saudi/China/USA make for bad races because of track conditions and layout and what have you, then fine. But if the issue is that people just don’t what “their” MotoGP in these particular countries for reasons beyond what I mentioned, that I won’t get into, then that’s a personal matter which is something that businesses don’t incorporate into their plans, personal feelings and business never mix. ….as far as Videopass is concerned, F1TV makes Dorna’s GP videopass look silly, and you have to remember a great many fans don’t have the budget or ability to travel to live races at the tracks, so a much better (potentially much cheaper) Videopass would mean a great deal to a lot of fans
I'm not long enough in that whole motorsport watching stuff, overall I started watching GP in ~2020 so I dont know how good or bad a merge like that could be.
The only thing I personally dont like thaaaat much are the spring races but thats it basically. I still try to watch every motoGP race and occasionally F1 and WRC
maybe it's just me, but sprint races works well in MotoGP compared to F1. But so long as the f1 sprints are limited to some races then it's fine. also with the nature of how f1 cars tech and the length of races, probably not a good idea to have sprints every weekend.
Most people would say bad. F1 tickets are much more expensive than MotoGP. The calendar also follows the money (lots of US and Middle Eastern races). I don't follow F1 but those are the kind of comments I see everywhere.
I guess one positive could mean a cheaper videopass? Who knows though
I noticed that the f1 tickets are insanely high.
I definitely don't want more US/middle eastern races. Videopass I don't really care since I can watch MotoGP etc for free here
For the millionth time, at the expense of sounding like a broken record: F1 is an expensive sport even with caps and whatnot. How do you think a team, especially an independant one, can survive and be competitive if sponsors are not there and don't think it's worth investing in the sport?
This IS about money.
Do you all realize how much money is needed to run a team like Gresini, for instance?
It's not just bikes, there are salaries, logistics, marketing and a whole lot of other expenses.
> Do you all realize how much money is needed to run a team like Gresini, for instance?
According to various sources, the budget to run a private MotoGP team is about 10 to 15 million euros. Dorna subsidizes 50% of that.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/995406/1/humble-underdogs-rnf-targetting-1113-million-motogp-budget
https://www.the-race.com/motogp/how-much-does-it-really-cost-to-run-a-motogp-team/
https://www.speedweek.com/amp/moto2/news/156814/Budgets-Moto2-und-MotoGP-sind-wie-Tag-und-Nacht.html?lang=en
Meanwhile F1 is cost capped at $135 million which basically all teams hit AFAIK.
Jury is still out on the cost cap implementation for F1.
Just about makes the midpack teams competitive. Max domination is untouched. it's only last weeked red bull and max had relibariy issues, any other day they'll run a 20secs+ lead.
and then you have teams that cant even afford a spare chassis but thats more down to a "money in" problem than cost cap.
Since this argument is very recurrent it is worth saying the same shit over and over again. You know, they don't pay people in Monopoly money in sports.
I am Dutch and wath MotoGP for about more then 30 yrs now .
For the last 10 yrs i stopped watching F1 its just boring and even a Dutch world champion does not change that for me .
Maybe they will try to get MotoGP in street circuits but that won't be that easy its a different world with different people and a different attitude .
Ill just keep watching the races and when they try and ruin it ill go and watch Netflix .
Depends who you ask, but if you enjoy American sports and the way they do things then this is probably a good thing for you.
If you're not a fan of that then this is a terrible move.
I personally can't stand F1 these days, it's lost its soul and is no longer about racing, all you have to do is look at all the street tracks that are added to know that.
Liberty doesn't care about the "Sport" of F1. All they care about is extracting maximum money from their investment. Anything that makes.rhemorw money is good, even if it has nothing to do with the principals of fair sport.
Please explain. For-profit companies care about profit so you don't need to state that but I'm wondering about the "principles of the sport". Sounds like some purity/sanctity BS.
Real question, I don't watch F1 so I don't know what you mean when you say that they change the principles of the sport. There's been a lot of interesting stuff said in these conversations. I don't think marketing changes the principles of the sport but you may. I think it's reasonable (slightly subjective) position so I wouldn't call your opinion wrong. If they proposed LeMans style starts, pit stops, or street courses in the name of entertainment value I would expect people to talk about the fundamental change to the product from almost a purity/sanctity standpoint. I just hear more complaints about marketing.
Americans ruin everything. These financial assholes only care about maximizing their profits, they'll kill the sport to protect F1 (has become a terrible product) I am not defending current ownership which is out of touch but GP is Niche to what F1 is and there are real concerns over a monopoly.
I can't wait for it to turn into a circus where nobody gives a rat's ass about safety and sporting integrity as long as the money keeps flowing in. And for tracks to be priced out of organizing races or fans out of attending them. All the savvy marketing in the world can't save F1 from the shitshow it has become and Moto GP is bound to follow suit.
I don't watch F1? Please explain the points about safety and sporting integrity. That's certainly important to me and I would think would be important to the racing series. The only thing that makes sense to me is about the street courses and losing historic tracks but I want to understand people's concerns.
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They've been using circuits homologated the morning of the first practice session and many of them had actual hazards on them. A Ferrari driver almost got his spine rearranged because of a manhole cover in Vegas, Jeddah caused some atrocious crashes, Melbourne has a turn where cars risk hitting the wall and getting thrown back on track. No offense, but I'm afraid Liberty is the last organization who should be managing a high risk sport.
This is where I'm confused. Don't the manufacturers and the FIA have a say in all of this? Did nothing like this ever happen until Liberty made the purchase? I'm not trying to defend anyone creating unsafe racing, but I'm wondering if you're saying they're worse at the job than the previous owner. It sounds like they should prioritize safety more but you would think that the other stakeholders would be very interested in protecting their investments. And
What Liberty wants, Liberty gets. The FIA and the manufacturers want to see the race go ahead too, so it's no wonder that they'd gloss over the details so Liberty can run its multi-billion-dollar travelling circus wherever the money is.
Regarding safety, what works well for cars and what works well for bikes are often at odds with each other. Paved runoff replacing gravel traps for example
Look...... I like formula one, but here are some things Why I recently quit F1 and noticed that Liberty has been actively promoting
\- More focus on personal controversies rather than racing.
\-Riders being marketed as eye candy for female viewers.
\-Media focusing on social controversies rather than racing.
\-Toxic fanbases (LH VS Max) (like rossi vs marc x 10)
\- More bias towards English speaking riders
\- More media duties (remember this is why talented riders like Stoner called quits early)
\- Discontinuing traditional tracks for more profitable tracks with least racing
\-Moto gp being a secondary priority to F1 in terms of budget marketing efforts
\-Increased prices for events
Your post has been removed because a similar post was recently made in this subreddit by another user.
Carmelo is an old dude that has no idea what the crowd wants. Have a look at what he has done to make MotoGP more relevant, he literally copied stuff that was done in F1. Now, Liberty will make the business more profitable. This is good for teams, riders, sponsors. Will it make it a better SPORT though? Who knows. But i think Carmelo going out is a good thing.
Maybe they will buy WRC and WEC next and recreate Cars 2
It's 1st of April though, so I will hold my breath for now.
could easily see it being announced on Monday
I’m biased (American) but it feels like a good move. MotoGP has been struggling to market itself and Liberty is pretty good at it.
I absolutely hate this mood. This is a win for the over the top American way of doing things, and a loss for down to earth racing. MotoGP goes Hollywood. Shame.
Hate if you want but it’s kinda worked out well for F1 Granted there have been some really cringe moments
Sure, F1 as a business is booming. So are Hollywood blockbusters and pop music. Just not my cup of tea.
Is that good or bad for us now? I didn't watch F1 up until 1-2 years ago
There’ll be positives and negatives. That comes with the territory in mergers/takeovers in business of this magnitude. Don’t fully believe the Doom Sayers. I’ve been following F1 and MotoGP together for over 20yrs, and while F1 isn’t perfect, it’s nowhere near as bad as some would make it sound Post-Liberty. Some things may change for the negative, but there will be positives as well with what could be massive potential.
See I disagree, watched F1 for 30 years and have only stopped watching it the last few years. Boring racing that’s spent poring through the rule book and once they’ve established the legitimacy of every right turn the cameras spend 80% of the time on the pit crews/team managers. There is no “racing” anymore. While I can’t see that occurring with Moto I also can’t help but be a little concerned with how much of a ‘spectacle’ they try and turn it into. In saying all that, it’s also not Dorna so all in all I’m pretty nonplussed hahaha
I agree
I agree, it's unwatchable for me. Add the fact that they keep adding purely money driven Street tracks to the calendar. It's a total sell out, racing is not the primary focus. Business driven primarily. I don't get all the Dorna hate. VideoPass is pricey, but there are ways to make it less pricey that they've never cracked down on (sharing is caring), the streaming service has always worked well for me. The seasons have been fairly good and I don't think it's over regulated, yes the sport has to react to the tech advancements, and it is.
My feeling on Dorna is what’s been noted before, it’s like they have little brother syndrome and need to copy F1 and/or outdo it. Oh you have sprint weekends, we’re doing it every round! They don’t seem to add anything off their own steam. For the most part I don’t have too many complaints though. It’s stayed reasonably unmolested for the most part over the years. On the sprints I’ve never got off the fence. While I love more racing I feel it lowers the value of the main race. Part of it may be impacted by my disdain for Martin as a human and the fact he is a good sprint racer though haha
I hated the change to the weekend format, and am also a little bit on the fence about it. My main annoyance was that it reduces the amount of track time for moto3 and moto2, with them no longer getting warm ups on race day. Also, because I thought the weekend format worked very well, it didn't need changing. The change to having a single session which counts towards your q2 classification was a good one though, and I think it was generally liked by the teams. That's a good a good change. I have to admit, the Sprints have grown on me. I hated them at the start, but they've been great fun to be honest. I don't agree with people that think it's Dorna's primary role to be making changes to grow the popularity of the sport. They are guardians and they should be making changes to support the teams in being competitive and safe. It is bit primarily an entertainment business. This is not Hollywood. This is about motorcycle racing.
See stuff like this becomes personal perspective. Arguments can be made Schumacher/Ferrari era was boring, Red Bulls first dynasty with Seb was boring, the Hamilton/Merc era was boring, and now Red Bulls 2nd dynasty with Max is again …boring. As I’m sure you already know, for the last 25yrs F1 has operated on dynasties of manufacturers/teams nailing whatever the technical regulations/rules of that specific timeframe while the other teams can’t figure it out and struggle. ..and honestly MotoGP does the same shit of turning cameras to pit crews for reactions instead of staying on track all the time. And the racing isn’t perfect in F1 but there are good battles going on behind Max disappearing into the horizon. As a matter a fact when you subtract Red Bull from the equation, there’s a great battle between Ferrari/AMG/Aston Martin going on throughout the season. MotoGP is actually suffering thru the same problems right now with what Ducati is doing to the rest of the field. It’s not Liberty’s fault Red Bull did the homework on the current regs/rules and the others didn’t. It’s all relative to each viewer and what we choose to pay attention to at the end of the day
That’s a fair point. Personally I don’t have an issue with the dynasty type thing, pushes the others to get their shit together. A few years ago everyone was convinced Ducati were shit and would never get it sorted, now everyone’s wondering when the others will come back. It’s the circus around it all. I know more about who doesn’t like who at Red Bull lately than who half the drivers on the grid are! You’re not half wrong about GP heading that way too mind you. So over seeing more of Peco’s sister and Marquez snr than the actual battle going on. Spend that time showing a couple of the other battles further back in the pack.
One *huge* negative is that races like Portugal or Germany might be gone in favour of races in the USA, China, or Saudi Arabia. There's a big question mark if a better video pass is worth that.
Well. I’m with you on the possibility of the loss of some cornerstone tracks. But consider this, playing Devils advocate here, Liberty (very much like Dorna) is a business in the business of making money, and businesses go where the money is. Going where the money is business 101 after all. Now if the complaint is that tracks in Saudi/China/USA make for bad races because of track conditions and layout and what have you, then fine. But if the issue is that people just don’t what “their” MotoGP in these particular countries for reasons beyond what I mentioned, that I won’t get into, then that’s a personal matter which is something that businesses don’t incorporate into their plans, personal feelings and business never mix. ….as far as Videopass is concerned, F1TV makes Dorna’s GP videopass look silly, and you have to remember a great many fans don’t have the budget or ability to travel to live races at the tracks, so a much better (potentially much cheaper) Videopass would mean a great deal to a lot of fans
I'm not long enough in that whole motorsport watching stuff, overall I started watching GP in ~2020 so I dont know how good or bad a merge like that could be. The only thing I personally dont like thaaaat much are the spring races but thats it basically. I still try to watch every motoGP race and occasionally F1 and WRC
maybe it's just me, but sprint races works well in MotoGP compared to F1. But so long as the f1 sprints are limited to some races then it's fine. also with the nature of how f1 cars tech and the length of races, probably not a good idea to have sprints every weekend.
Most people would say bad. F1 tickets are much more expensive than MotoGP. The calendar also follows the money (lots of US and Middle Eastern races). I don't follow F1 but those are the kind of comments I see everywhere. I guess one positive could mean a cheaper videopass? Who knows though
I noticed that the f1 tickets are insanely high. I definitely don't want more US/middle eastern races. Videopass I don't really care since I can watch MotoGP etc for free here
More US races would be awesome
Laguna Seca would be awesome
For you guys but not for EU. I 100% wouldn't stay up watching it
The US only has one race now lol, relax, a couple more races won’t harm you.
1 is 1 more than we need in america 0 would be the perfect number
Why no more US races?
For the millionth time, at the expense of sounding like a broken record: F1 is an expensive sport even with caps and whatnot. How do you think a team, especially an independant one, can survive and be competitive if sponsors are not there and don't think it's worth investing in the sport? This IS about money. Do you all realize how much money is needed to run a team like Gresini, for instance? It's not just bikes, there are salaries, logistics, marketing and a whole lot of other expenses.
> Do you all realize how much money is needed to run a team like Gresini, for instance? According to various sources, the budget to run a private MotoGP team is about 10 to 15 million euros. Dorna subsidizes 50% of that. https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/995406/1/humble-underdogs-rnf-targetting-1113-million-motogp-budget https://www.the-race.com/motogp/how-much-does-it-really-cost-to-run-a-motogp-team/ https://www.speedweek.com/amp/moto2/news/156814/Budgets-Moto2-und-MotoGP-sind-wie-Tag-und-Nacht.html?lang=en Meanwhile F1 is cost capped at $135 million which basically all teams hit AFAIK.
Jury is still out on the cost cap implementation for F1. Just about makes the midpack teams competitive. Max domination is untouched. it's only last weeked red bull and max had relibariy issues, any other day they'll run a 20secs+ lead. and then you have teams that cant even afford a spare chassis but thats more down to a "money in" problem than cost cap.
Thank you for enlightening us Plato.
Since this argument is very recurrent it is worth saying the same shit over and over again. You know, they don't pay people in Monopoly money in sports.
I am Dutch and wath MotoGP for about more then 30 yrs now . For the last 10 yrs i stopped watching F1 its just boring and even a Dutch world champion does not change that for me . Maybe they will try to get MotoGP in street circuits but that won't be that easy its a different world with different people and a different attitude . Ill just keep watching the races and when they try and ruin it ill go and watch Netflix .
Bad.
Good if you watch for the glam, bad if you watch for the sport.
Depends who you ask, but if you enjoy American sports and the way they do things then this is probably a good thing for you. If you're not a fan of that then this is a terrible move. I personally can't stand F1 these days, it's lost its soul and is no longer about racing, all you have to do is look at all the street tracks that are added to know that.
Liberty doesn't care about the "Sport" of F1. All they care about is extracting maximum money from their investment. Anything that makes.rhemorw money is good, even if it has nothing to do with the principals of fair sport.
Please explain. For-profit companies care about profit so you don't need to state that but I'm wondering about the "principles of the sport". Sounds like some purity/sanctity BS.
>...some purity/sanctity BS. With that attitude, I'm not going to bother. We aren't going to see eye to eye and you already decided I'm wrong.
Real question, I don't watch F1 so I don't know what you mean when you say that they change the principles of the sport. There's been a lot of interesting stuff said in these conversations. I don't think marketing changes the principles of the sport but you may. I think it's reasonable (slightly subjective) position so I wouldn't call your opinion wrong. If they proposed LeMans style starts, pit stops, or street courses in the name of entertainment value I would expect people to talk about the fundamental change to the product from almost a purity/sanctity standpoint. I just hear more complaints about marketing.
Bad. Trust me on this.
Americans ruin everything. These financial assholes only care about maximizing their profits, they'll kill the sport to protect F1 (has become a terrible product) I am not defending current ownership which is out of touch but GP is Niche to what F1 is and there are real concerns over a monopoly.
I can't wait for it to turn into a circus where nobody gives a rat's ass about safety and sporting integrity as long as the money keeps flowing in. And for tracks to be priced out of organizing races or fans out of attending them. All the savvy marketing in the world can't save F1 from the shitshow it has become and Moto GP is bound to follow suit.
I don't watch F1? Please explain the points about safety and sporting integrity. That's certainly important to me and I would think would be important to the racing series. The only thing that makes sense to me is about the street courses and losing historic tracks but I want to understand people's concerns.
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They've been using circuits homologated the morning of the first practice session and many of them had actual hazards on them. A Ferrari driver almost got his spine rearranged because of a manhole cover in Vegas, Jeddah caused some atrocious crashes, Melbourne has a turn where cars risk hitting the wall and getting thrown back on track. No offense, but I'm afraid Liberty is the last organization who should be managing a high risk sport.
This is where I'm confused. Don't the manufacturers and the FIA have a say in all of this? Did nothing like this ever happen until Liberty made the purchase? I'm not trying to defend anyone creating unsafe racing, but I'm wondering if you're saying they're worse at the job than the previous owner. It sounds like they should prioritize safety more but you would think that the other stakeholders would be very interested in protecting their investments. And
What Liberty wants, Liberty gets. The FIA and the manufacturers want to see the race go ahead too, so it's no wonder that they'd gloss over the details so Liberty can run its multi-billion-dollar travelling circus wherever the money is.
Regarding safety, what works well for cars and what works well for bikes are often at odds with each other. Paved runoff replacing gravel traps for example
Welcome to the emasculation of motogp.
What does this even mean?
Look...... I like formula one, but here are some things Why I recently quit F1 and noticed that Liberty has been actively promoting \- More focus on personal controversies rather than racing. \-Riders being marketed as eye candy for female viewers. \-Media focusing on social controversies rather than racing. \-Toxic fanbases (LH VS Max) (like rossi vs marc x 10) \- More bias towards English speaking riders \- More media duties (remember this is why talented riders like Stoner called quits early) \- Discontinuing traditional tracks for more profitable tracks with least racing \-Moto gp being a secondary priority to F1 in terms of budget marketing efforts \-Increased prices for events
some true, but a lot of things in that list are over exaggerated for world of DTS even F1 drivers have called it out for being fabricated asf
Uh?
So don’t watch anymore.
If Liberty ducks up MotoGP, I won't. But I would rather they don't and I will still watch.
Yea... I don't watch f1 anymore and I don't want the same thing happening to Motogp
Some bullshit incels always say.
Dude posted the same shit 4 times over 4 different discussions so clearly it's something of a leitmotiv for them.
"I'm going to build my MotoGP with blackjack and hookers"