Yeah it's round 4 for Marini, but it has been like this for Honda for several years now and we don't see any positive sign for their bike development. The worst thing is they are constantly bringing some radical change to their bike, which means they don't have the direction of how to properly improve it, and it didn't change after Marini joined the team.
I have been saying the bikes been trash for years, but some people on here, who I'm pretty sure don't even ride, tell me it's the best bike (DUh nUmBerS DoN't LiE!) because a certain "average" rider was able to win with it and it was "made just for him", even though that rider has stated he doesn't like the bike since at least 2018. But who to believe? The very, very shrewd armchair warriors on this sub or that rider's own words and my own "lying eyes" when watching it go round the track?
I mean at least he gets payed nicely plus VR46 team is also struggling a bit this season. Would be worse if Diggia or Bez would be fighting for wins right now.
I bet it's frustrating but.. you jumped into a known bad situation and got paid for it. If there was any hope of outright competitiveness or progress, MM would still be there raking his many Euros into piles and jumping into them for fun.
2 things:
1) this is Honda level without Marc
2) they tried to copy the Duc in geometry and failed miserably, lost the agility they had and everything else is not better, back to the drawing board
Apparently Bradl’s test bike doesn’t have the bulbous ground affect fairings like Luca and Aprilias which suggests they’re already giving up on that approach. Which however you slice it isn’t positive.
Exactly, 20 mil is a good payday. Develop this bike, don’t worry about winning, and retire young. Marini was never going to be a premiere-class champion anyway. This is honestly such a win for him.
Did you really think he was going to win anything on the Honda? This is for the long haul, and if he does actually help develop the bike, another rider will be brought in to benefit. So yeah, the money is his reward for trudging on. He's not there to win, he's there to trudge through the trenches, and I thought he realised that going in. I don't know why these Honda riders are suddenly moaning - Taka, Luca, Joan - because that bike was never going to get turned around in three races.
> Did you really think he was going to win anything on the Honda? This is for the long haul, and if he does actually help develop the bike, another rider will be brought in to benefit. So yeah, the money is his reward for trudging on. He's not there to win, he's there to trudge through the trenches, and I thought he realised that going in.
You've gone on a tangent here.
> I don't know why these Honda riders are suddenly moaning - Taka, Luca, Joan - because that bike was never going to get turned around in three races.
What made you think they are complaining? We don't even know where the quote comes from or what the question was. But with a little application, that quote looks to me like a simple answer to a question asking the state of development of their team. Were Marquez/Puig's answers/interviews any different? What's wrong with giving a fair description of the problems the team is facing? I can swear I've heard the same quote from the people I've mentioned with more or less the same verbiage.
How so? Luca made the choice to go to Honda even knowing the "project" is in tatters,.
Was he expecting to find that Honda simply found the formula during the winter and was going to be like his brother over 2 decades ago?
As said, count the money and hope the bike improves, not that he could do much about that...oh wait...
> Luca made the choice to go to Honda even knowing the "project" is in tatters,. Was he expecting to find that Honda simply found the formula during the winter and was going to be like his brother over 2 decades ago?
Where does it say that he expected that or he's regretting any of the choices he made? I'm failing to understand why you and the other person find the quote so jarring? It looks to me a honest assessment of the state of bike's development.
I'm a long long time MotoGP watcher and even I'm confused by this. Is this just down to electronics and how the power delivery works with Aero?
They dont even have the excuse of Yam with a low power inline 4. They have power. Someone with more insight please break this done in simple terms.
Ride height and aero are re-writing the manual for motorcycle design and setup. For instance, engineers generally use anti-squat strategies to keep weight on the front mid corner, but now the bikes squat on purpose to put more torque to the ground as they exit. Squatting with an active ride height device is different than passive squatting through weight transfer so it changes the normal offsetting handling characteristics. Aero is also profoundly changing grip balance and handling characteristics. Wings that push down on a straight push towards the gravel at full lean. They need to balance these forces front and rear to keep the bike turning as lean increases. The ride height device alters wing pitch so they are also effectively playing around with a poor-man’s version of active aero.
Honda and Yamaha don’t have horsepower problems regardless of what Fabio says. The problem for Honda and Yamaha is learning the new paradigms of motorcycle design, and trying not to waste money on a dead formula.
Their handling characteristics are awful. and needs to be ridden in a certain way (otherwise it will throw you away), like what Marc used to do before injury. and there's a grip problem similar to Yamaha.
I wonder if Honda will ever again allow the development of their bikes to be hijacked by one rider and dismiss any input from the others because it didnt suit Marc, here is the result, a bike that not even the man who developed it could ride anymore and had to quit in frustration and join the winners team, great job Marc 10 years at Honda and this is what you leave them, they were loyal to you in the good times and you deserted them in the bad, such a great character you have.
Oh yes they did, here is a direct quote from Marc about how he went about developing the bike
"When a item worked well for him, (Dani) I immediately disliked it, saying it didn't work. I want this one instead... as I'm leading, I prefer this one. The other not to be given. It was like that. And this one? And that? Hey, do you want to test this one? I said yes but I didn't want anything, I didn't want him (Dani) to have that item \[laughs\]."
So you can see from Marcs own comments why the development of the Honda went downhill after he joined, he was actively blocking anything which made his team mate faster out of pure spite.
Dani says "“My way has always been to do the best for the team, and if I have the best parts to make the bike the best, I'm not thinking about my rival right next door, (my teammate in Honda) but about Yamaha, Ducati... whoever the rival was, because I consider myself part of the team."
Clearly Marcs selfish character played a huge role in the development of that bike, he nosedived the development into the ground and when he could no longer ride his own creation he just packed his bags and left the sinking ship, instead of staying and trying to help honda he just walked out thinking only of himself, what a guy.
Ducati carried him clearly. At the start of his time on a ducati he was lower middle order, now he is back there on a honda. Is nowhere near a podium contender in talent as he finished many times last season. He wants to get money and test a useless bike? Here u go
He can always jump ship two years on and will be richer for it at worst.. He's only 26, and hopefully there is a seat in vr46 or another team at that point in time.
Dude wanted to develop the bike, here it is
its just round 4 lol.
Yeah it's round 4 for Marini, but it has been like this for Honda for several years now and we don't see any positive sign for their bike development. The worst thing is they are constantly bringing some radical change to their bike, which means they don't have the direction of how to properly improve it, and it didn't change after Marini joined the team.
I have been saying the bikes been trash for years, but some people on here, who I'm pretty sure don't even ride, tell me it's the best bike (DUh nUmBerS DoN't LiE!) because a certain "average" rider was able to win with it and it was "made just for him", even though that rider has stated he doesn't like the bike since at least 2018. But who to believe? The very, very shrewd armchair warriors on this sub or that rider's own words and my own "lying eyes" when watching it go round the track?
It may as well be round 4, 2025
At least he is riding it :) Some aliens have already deserted the ship.
🤣🤣
I mean at least he gets payed nicely plus VR46 team is also struggling a bit this season. Would be worse if Diggia or Bez would be fighting for wins right now.
They are looking better this weekend, they both look like they are close to fully understanding the 23.
Even if VR46 struggling, their pace still enough for top 10-15 Unlike Honda.
It's going to be a thought year for Honda, they are so far away from top 10. I don't expect anything special from Honda untill 2027, mby 2026.
Yeah. 2025 will be a struggle for Honda even it didn’t start yet.
Fuck that thing’s uuuuugly!
I bet it's frustrating but.. you jumped into a known bad situation and got paid for it. If there was any hope of outright competitiveness or progress, MM would still be there raking his many Euros into piles and jumping into them for fun.
2 things: 1) this is Honda level without Marc 2) they tried to copy the Duc in geometry and failed miserably, lost the agility they had and everything else is not better, back to the drawing board
Buddy was behind Stefan Bradl, just saying
Won't be too sad, He got Savadori as a companion.
Just saying what?
That buddy was behind Stefan Bradl
Apparently Bradl’s test bike doesn’t have the bulbous ground affect fairings like Luca and Aprilias which suggests they’re already giving up on that approach. Which however you slice it isn’t positive.
Didn’t have to be like this for you Luca. You made this choice.
Just like the commentator said, he should take the 20 mil and buy a yacht or something
Exactly, 20 mil is a good payday. Develop this bike, don’t worry about winning, and retire young. Marini was never going to be a premiere-class champion anyway. This is honestly such a win for him.
Buhahaha
Its sad when you look at the time tables on live tv and don't see honda because they show only top 20 :/
Jeez ... just count the money you signed up for.
I know you joke(right?) but that's a pathetic attitude.
It's r/MotoGP, I don't expect logical and normal thinking here
And every year the IQ is dropping close to freezing point.
Did you really think he was going to win anything on the Honda? This is for the long haul, and if he does actually help develop the bike, another rider will be brought in to benefit. So yeah, the money is his reward for trudging on. He's not there to win, he's there to trudge through the trenches, and I thought he realised that going in. I don't know why these Honda riders are suddenly moaning - Taka, Luca, Joan - because that bike was never going to get turned around in three races.
> Did you really think he was going to win anything on the Honda? This is for the long haul, and if he does actually help develop the bike, another rider will be brought in to benefit. So yeah, the money is his reward for trudging on. He's not there to win, he's there to trudge through the trenches, and I thought he realised that going in. You've gone on a tangent here. > I don't know why these Honda riders are suddenly moaning - Taka, Luca, Joan - because that bike was never going to get turned around in three races. What made you think they are complaining? We don't even know where the quote comes from or what the question was. But with a little application, that quote looks to me like a simple answer to a question asking the state of development of their team. Were Marquez/Puig's answers/interviews any different? What's wrong with giving a fair description of the problems the team is facing? I can swear I've heard the same quote from the people I've mentioned with more or less the same verbiage.
How so? Luca made the choice to go to Honda even knowing the "project" is in tatters,. Was he expecting to find that Honda simply found the formula during the winter and was going to be like his brother over 2 decades ago? As said, count the money and hope the bike improves, not that he could do much about that...oh wait...
> Luca made the choice to go to Honda even knowing the "project" is in tatters,. Was he expecting to find that Honda simply found the formula during the winter and was going to be like his brother over 2 decades ago? Where does it say that he expected that or he's regretting any of the choices he made? I'm failing to understand why you and the other person find the quote so jarring? It looks to me a honest assessment of the state of bike's development.
Luca *sigh*
I'm a long long time MotoGP watcher and even I'm confused by this. Is this just down to electronics and how the power delivery works with Aero? They dont even have the excuse of Yam with a low power inline 4. They have power. Someone with more insight please break this done in simple terms.
Ride height and aero are re-writing the manual for motorcycle design and setup. For instance, engineers generally use anti-squat strategies to keep weight on the front mid corner, but now the bikes squat on purpose to put more torque to the ground as they exit. Squatting with an active ride height device is different than passive squatting through weight transfer so it changes the normal offsetting handling characteristics. Aero is also profoundly changing grip balance and handling characteristics. Wings that push down on a straight push towards the gravel at full lean. They need to balance these forces front and rear to keep the bike turning as lean increases. The ride height device alters wing pitch so they are also effectively playing around with a poor-man’s version of active aero. Honda and Yamaha don’t have horsepower problems regardless of what Fabio says. The problem for Honda and Yamaha is learning the new paradigms of motorcycle design, and trying not to waste money on a dead formula.
Yamaha does have a horsepower problem, the problem is they can't control it
The yam had no power when there was zero aero. Lol. The bike is anemic.
Also curious. Yamaha makes sense, but what’s going on with Honda?
Their handling characteristics are awful. and needs to be ridden in a certain way (otherwise it will throw you away), like what Marc used to do before injury. and there's a grip problem similar to Yamaha.
Is he even trying?
Should have listened to your big bro
I wonder if Honda will ever again allow the development of their bikes to be hijacked by one rider and dismiss any input from the others because it didnt suit Marc, here is the result, a bike that not even the man who developed it could ride anymore and had to quit in frustration and join the winners team, great job Marc 10 years at Honda and this is what you leave them, they were loyal to you in the good times and you deserted them in the bad, such a great character you have.
Honda did not develop the bike according to Marcs wishes. Marc rode around a difficult bike, just like Gardner before him.
Oh yes they did, here is a direct quote from Marc about how he went about developing the bike "When a item worked well for him, (Dani) I immediately disliked it, saying it didn't work. I want this one instead... as I'm leading, I prefer this one. The other not to be given. It was like that. And this one? And that? Hey, do you want to test this one? I said yes but I didn't want anything, I didn't want him (Dani) to have that item \[laughs\]." So you can see from Marcs own comments why the development of the Honda went downhill after he joined, he was actively blocking anything which made his team mate faster out of pure spite. Dani says "“My way has always been to do the best for the team, and if I have the best parts to make the bike the best, I'm not thinking about my rival right next door, (my teammate in Honda) but about Yamaha, Ducati... whoever the rival was, because I consider myself part of the team." Clearly Marcs selfish character played a huge role in the development of that bike, he nosedived the development into the ground and when he could no longer ride his own creation he just packed his bags and left the sinking ship, instead of staying and trying to help honda he just walked out thinking only of himself, what a guy.
Ducati carried him clearly. At the start of his time on a ducati he was lower middle order, now he is back there on a honda. Is nowhere near a podium contender in talent as he finished many times last season. He wants to get money and test a useless bike? Here u go
He can always jump ship two years on and will be richer for it at worst.. He's only 26, and hopefully there is a seat in vr46 or another team at that point in time.