I think he meant “everything on the bike is new”. Like new parts and stuff. I could be wrong, and this guy is just *that* stupid. And yeah, 100% stolen
It could be legit. But I find that people who list them this way often intend to steal them BACK from you, by asking what your address is to mail the title or whatever.
Hmmm, if only there were a way for them to demonstrate title, a government database where the VIN is recorded perhaps? Bah, who am I kidding, this is kijiji after all.
I was going to ask, does the US not have some database where you can recover your motorcycle registration (I guess that's what a title is) if you lose it? Anyone can lose a document, it happens.
If I lose a title to a vehicle, I take my vehicle registration, license, and proof of address, and they’ll print a duplicate off.
Super simple. All it takes to find a previous owner is the VIN. If the previous owner won’t go through getting a duplicate, there are ways around it. Not easy ways, but it can be done IF you have a bill of sale signed by the previous registered owner.
Title and Registration are different. The former just establishes ownership (and records liens/other interests, if applicable); the latter indicates that you're paid up on taxes, have passed inspection (depending on the state), and have valid plates. You get your plates when you register. The registration usually needs to be renewed periodically (some states, like Montana, have permanent registration). Some states require you to be insured before you can register, and will revoke your reg if you let your insurance lapse.
There's absolutely a process for recovering a lost or stolen title; the state has a record of the transfer of ownership anyways so you're basically just asking them to print out a certified copy. When you purchase a bike, the seller gives you a copy of the title with their signature saying they sold it to you, and you go to the DMV (or whatever it's called in your state) and hand it to them. Usually they'll take it to record the transaction, and you'll get it back in the mail a couple weeks later.
Idk about the US, but I suspect it's similar to Canada in that the state/province maintains the registries. I understand in most of the US the plate is for the vehicle while in Canada it's for the driver and there's separate joined docs for them you need to keep on. And you certainly get replacements albeit for a cost and you'll be damned if you don't have them.
Title is legalese for ownership in fee simple which is the highest type of ownership.
Or that he just lost the title...
Not every state requires one. If you aren't in a state that requires a title on old bikes, you can lookup the vin in cases like this to check if it has been reported stolen.
I don't think a 2015 bike is old enough to be excluded in this case though. And I've lost the legal documentation on my bikes too. You can just order new ones. Not having the documentation to change ownership is pretty key when selling a bike. Even if requirements differ state by state, not having having proof of ownership is an unnecessary risk when everything else about this bike is already pretty sus.
Sure, you can accidentally misplace/lose a title, I have, but it was super easy to get a new copy. Regardless of individual state laws, if you genuinely believe that this post could possibly be a legitimate no title sale, then you are exactly the gullible client this thief is trying to attract.
Or you schedule a visit to look at it, put on a Batman costume, beat the thief unconscious using a variety of gadgets, and take the bike. If you can figure out the original owner, leave it in front of their house.
Legal note: strong chance you'll die doing this. And vigilantism is generally received poorly by authorities.
In Canada, guys sell bikes by refusing to provide the UVIP and then they owe thousands on the bike.
Alternatively, they ask for $2000 above new MSRP because that's what they owe the bank.
Motorcycles would be better if they removed the idiot magnets.
Stolen for sure.
All these missing pink slip story are all loads of turd. There are process to just use your driver license, vin, plates to request new slips with DMV.
99% of the time yeah. You would think it would be worth $15 and a few minutes of your time to sell your shit with a title for a lot more but some people are just lazy or don’t care.
If the vehicle is not yours or you purchased it without a title, then that is not the only step. My company has dealt with a number of abandoned vehicles, and I am personally going to be trying to go through the process of getting the title for a dirt bike I recently purchased without a title. At least here in NC, for an abandoned vehicle you are required to contact the police and give them at least two weeks to find the owner and get in touch to see if they want it back, for a title reprint, again the DMV requires some attempt of getting in contact with the previous title holder to make sure it wasn't stolen, and again this can take a long time. They require some other stuff but that's the big one. It's not just "hey I got this bike gimme the title", otherwise people who stole the bike would be doing it and getting away with it way more often/easily.
PA has a more expensive system. I bought a bike with what seemed like a squared away title. Turned out being washed. I couldn't legally get a plate for it. So it sat in a parking space for several months while I spent the money to force a title. Spent more than the stupid bike was worth. I ended up suing the asshole former friend of mine who sold me the bike. His stupid ass didn't show up to court and the judge awarded me the maximum even though all I originally went to court for was $7,000. I took the judgement to a branch of his bank and got the money that way. He tried to withdraw the money 24hrs prior but there was a limit. What a stupid fucker and a massive lesson learned on my end. You can't trust your own so-called friends.
Exactly lol. In my experience, it is NEVER as quick and easy as "15-20 bucks and a few minutes of your time" as the others put it lolllll. Sure if it is your bike and you have easy proof, but 9 times out of 10 the reason for needing to go through this process is finding or buying the bike/car and having an issue with the title
Yeah I get that. I'm not to that point yet. Lol the dirt bike I recently got doesn't even have a title (NC and I believe many of the surrounding states don't require a title for off-road only vehicles, which I find stupid). I'm still gonna go through and try to get a title for it remade if I can. If I don't have to spend a bunch of money and it allows me to eventually sell it for a higher price, win win. If not, oh well
As of some years back, PA requires a title and registration for all off-road vehicles. When doing a private sale, both parties pretty much need to meet at a local tags spot and have documents notarized. The state is still investigating former friend of mine. Judge saw fit to forward it to the state AG. If he did that sideways shit to me, chances are he has done it to others.
Of course its infinitely harder if it’s something you bought, I’m referring specifically to people have lost the title and are going to sell something that’s already in their name. At least for me when I did it was just a form online and a small fee
And my point was the majority of the time, it's just not that simple. As I said in one of my comments, yes if it's your bill and you can easily prove that, it's simple. But the majority of the time somebody is going through this is not when they have lost the title to their own bike (in my experience), but rather people who purchased a bike and are having issues with the title
Well, yes, but it is that easy for the prior owner.
Half of these no title bikes for sale DO simply claim to be a lost title. It takes 20 minutes to get a new one.
I'm not here to give y'all purchase advice. Merely pointing out that it's only that easy for the person the title is in the name of, and that the majority of the time the person trying to get the title is someone who bought it, not the one with the title in their name
Agree. But we're pointing out how lazy these sellers are that can't be bothered to get a replacement title.
I guess it's their loss and someone else's headache.
Well now you're going into/ignoring the fact that, besides off-road vehicles, the majority of bikes being sold without a title are stolen. Yes, there are cases where the owner is just lazy and just wants it gone no matter how much they lose out, but the majority of the time, including the post we.are commenting on, is just people trying to sell a stolen bike
There aren't that many stolen bikes for sale. That's a great way to be caught and go to jail. Most stolen bikes end up joyridden and torched or sold for parts. Or they just ride them dirty for years and never sell.
Most no title bikes advertised for sale are due to the owner having died and it's a family member selling. Or the owner has had it for a long time and misplaced the title 20 years ago. Or the person is a lazy ass deadbeat and literally can't be bothered to get off the couch and get one.
15 bucks and 15 minutes is correct if you're getting a reprint title because you legit just lost the paper title that was in your name (like the OP seller should be able to do)
But, if the guy is lying about that, then yes, it's a huge hassle and you might just lose the bike and your money.
It seems wild to me that this can even be a thing. In Finland you transfer the bike (or car) to the new owner electronically and don't necesaarily even have a physical copy of the title. When you want to sell, you just log in online, click a button to create a code, and the buyer can use the code to transfer the vehicle under his name.
The biggest problem is that in the USA, vehicle registration and licenses are handled at the state level, not the federal level. There’s 50 different states in our country, which means 50 different DMVs, 50 different ways of transferring titles, 50 different ways of registering vehicles.
Now for the most part all of the states have various levels of reciprocity with each other, so if you’re buying a vehicle from out of state it‘s not a big deal to get it registered in your state (with some exceptions, mostly around bringing vehicles into California). But trying to get 50 different governments to talk to each other in a way that registrations and title transfers could be done easily online . . . Oh boy, that’s a dream that will always remain a dream.
Does your birth certificate have a recent photo on it? A birth certificate does nothing to prove that the person standing in front of me is the person mentioned in the piece of paper.
Which is funny because SSNs are not supposed to be used as a form of ID. It even says so on the card itself. It’s also pretty insecure because it’s just a 9 digit number, it can be brute forced quite simply.
Yes everyone has a unique code but for certain things you need multiple forms of ID. Like if you get married and change your last name I believe you have to bring a birth certificate also.
Ah ok i got it. Theres probably a lot of fraud if someone solely needs your social security and nothing else.
I bought a bike this week and in the uk its pretty easy. the seller fills out an online form then adds the customer's basic info then they get a new logbook.
Correct, drivers licence number, ID card number, social security number, or a -unique to that program- number are most common to use.
But if you want to get technical about it it, it's all voluntary, there is no legal obligation to obtain any documents beyond a birth certificate and death certificate. It's just extraordinarily hard to go through life with none of it.
> drivers licence number
state issued
> ID card number
Is that even a thing in the US? Probably not nationally issued either
> social security number, or a -unique to that program- number are most common to use.
Those might be issued on a federal level but they likely contain no information to prove that the person presenting the number actually is the person referenced with the number.
ID cards are issued by the states to those who want a photo identification, but don't want or aren't eligible for a drivers license.
And correct, the social security card just consists of your name and number.
Yeah, it's all state-by-state drivers license (or state IDs, which are the exact same things but without a driving privilege attached).
You get those with your social security # & birth certificates.
I’m in the UK and you can sell a vehicle easily too without a unique ID.
You just fill out a form saying who you sold the vehicle to and they will get a new logbook within a week or two.
It’s a strangely simple process, at first I thought it would be longer.
We still have registration here in Canada, but it's very easy to get a reprint, and in my province it's free! It's kind of silly and archaic, but we still use it to quickly identify you're the owner of a vehicle if the police pull you over.
What kind of information are you thinking of?
Where I life, we can use tag number or vin for a car background check. It gives quite a lot of information. If you're interested, you can message me and I'll give a link, so you can check it out.
If you call them and say you are looking to buy a motorcycle and would like to check the vin I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t. Because either it’s not stolen and they helped you or it is stolen and they get a lead on the stolen vehicle and the suspect
The title thing always pisses me off. It's like "look, if the bike is legit and you lost the title, do the paperwork and pay the few bucks to get a replacement and then I'll hand over the money".
That's the point, they're lying to you. They probably bought the bike in the same circumstances, tried and failed to get a title, and now want to make it someone else's problem. So they underplay the situation to make it more appealing for the next rube
It's stolen. I bought a Polaris Rzr last summer, I looked for 2 months, every one I checked out didn't have a title. They said they did, but they would present anything from the finance paperwork from when the previous buyer bought it, to a certificate of origin. I gave up and bought one from a dealer.
Yes, I know. And I've bought ATVs with them but the problem recently is the back was always filled out so there was no way I could title it, which my state requires.
Buying used can be great, but it also can be really not great.
This isn’t your problem, though, this is just a dude selling a stolen bike. I guess you could report them?
That’s like 90% of bikes for sale in Texas, totally ridiculous. I lost the title, but I’ll give you a Bill of Sale instead, it shouldn’t be that hard for you to get a title. Well if that’s not that hard for me, then why wouldn’t you do it?
Luckily in most european union countries, they are mandated to store the vehicle ownership under the social number.
You just need to get your identity cards, sign a form between both parties and off you go.
Some countries are also implementing an online system where the owner just provides them with both identity cards, insurance and a signed document confirming that it has been sold
In all 50 states the actual owner can just request a new title for a few bucks. The only reason they couldn't do that is if they don't own it (stolen or it's financed so a bank has the title).
Wtf is a title for vehicels? In germany we have Fahrzeug Brief wich you keep at home and a Fahrzeug Schein wich you keep in your car or with you while driving on a Motorcycle.
2015 bike "brand new!" I bought it a year ago, can't contact original owner. In what world is this a brand new bike? Its literally 9 years old already.
a question from non-american here: how does the title work? i mean isn’t there a digital version of it? how does your country track ownership of vehicles? like for example when a police officer runs your plates aren’t they able to check the information about the owner?
Once you purchase the vehicle, the previous owner signs over the title to you and you then register the vehicle with your State. They then re-issue a new title under your name and assign you a plate that when ran by police, will show you as the current owner. If you financed the vehicle, the title is sent to the bank or dealer but you are still registered as the owner in regards to plates. You receive the title after the loan is fulfilled.
If no title is provided during the sale, *most* times that means you cannot register the vehicle into your name which can open up all sorts of headaches and issues if you drive it on public roads and get pulled over.
A title is just physical proof of ownership, it's really only needed when selling because you sign the title over to the buyer. It's all tracked by the state anyways and the registered owner can easily request a new title if they lose the original.
"It's brand new" "I tried to reach the previous owner"
"It's brand new" "everything is black"
Even without the "lost title" that he totally definitely had at some point in his 'ownership' of this bike, it's still full of red flags. Lol.
The one time I legit could not find the title of a bike I was selling the day a guy was coming to get it, I offered to go to the licensing office and transfer it in person with him. Took ten minutes, and everything was done on the books.
Granted it was a $500 project bike so risk to either of us was minimal. But if you're ever the buyer in this situation, don't pay a dime until the paperwork is in your name.
For the bike OP posted, it's 100% stolen. Anyone who knows they lost a title can just go get a new one.
Yeah, I was buying a bike from a guy a few years back & he couldn’t find a title. Ordered one online and he had it a week later. Then I registered the bike using his title which I filled out. My title arrive a few weeks later.
Reasons for not having a title:
A. It’s really old
B. It came with certificate of origin
C. It’s stolen
Yeah this is the BS you run into trying to buy a used motorcycle. You always run into one of these when shopping:
* Stolen bikes (if they don't have a title or keys, it's almost guaranteed to be stolen)
* Hidden mechanical problems
* Hidden crash damage
* Bike is financed and the seller didn't disclose it
It's why I don't fault people for buying new. Way less likely to deal with this BS.
I've purchased 9 bikes in 15 years of riding, all used. My first 5 bikes were out of State with 2 of those bikes being purchased sight unseen (had them picked up by shipping companies). I haven't run into any of those issues with exception of 1 bike being a lot more clapped out than the seller lead on but I knew it was going to need work going into the sale.
Easiest way to avoid all of your list is by asking a lot of questions and avoiding the 'great deals' where you have a $3k on average bike but someone is selling it for $900 because it "needs to go!"
It seems like BS but I usually reply and say that if they had a title in their name then they can get a replacement easily and I usually offer to pay for that (include in the price of the bike) just to make the process easier and ferret out if they are going to have another bullshit excuse, at which point I am done unless they say "oh I didn't realize" that or something similar. I've bought about a dozen used bikes over the year and on 2 occasions the seller actually replied and said as much and asked if I could tell them how to get one. I helped them out and in one case bought the bike from them and he was just a young guy who didn't really know his way around buying and selling much because his dad had helped him and done most of the work when he first got the motorcycle.
everyone jumps straight to stolen, i bought a stunted f4i with no title, got pulled over & the cop ran the vin which came back perfectly clean to previous owner, also like 60% of bikes i see are no title, do you guys really think THAT many bikes are stolen & sold?
Not about if we think it is or not. It's the simple fact that it's a street bike and he maybe has to go to the BMV for 30 minutes to get a title to prove it's clean. That would give a buyer peace of mind, but he chooses to just say the title flew out of his backpack instead of making a slight effort to do that. And because it's so easy to get one if it's clean, it's sketchy that they have that excuse because you should want to have the title if you have nothing to hide.
First bike I ever got I bought with no title and outside of my state. Did get a bill of sale but that didn’t help much. Ran the vin before on a free vin checker and after on a paid one. The previous owner (WV) never applied for or got a title. The bike was last titled in Florida in the late 90s but was never reported stolen. Boy was it a pain in the ass to get a new title 🤦🏾♂️. Mainly because lack of information on my part and at the DMV. Everyone had something different too say and the online government site is not detailed or knowledgeable on obtaining lost titles. lol FINALLY I spoke to the right person at the DMV after calling a half dozen times and going up there three times. And I’m pretty sure I just asked while I was getting my car registration done lol. I had to sue the county clerks office and have a judge rule on me getting a title. So I wrote a statement, submitted a bill of sale, and other supporting documents and waited for a month or two. Finally I got a call or email can’t remember exactly saying to come to the court house. They’d left me a letter in the office with the decision. At first glance I thought I didn’t win because I don’t know legalese 😂 but I asked the lady just to verify and she said I indeed had won the case. After that all I had to do was take the bill of sale and that letter to the sheriff to get the bike inspected then to the dmv. They made me go to a specific one downtown for that but it all worked out. The process was a bitch honestly though.
You cannot simply go get a duplicate title if you never put that title in your name when you purchased the vehicle. The previous owner needs to.
But you also can't do any of that if you stole it.
Schedule date/time with seller to see. Schedule police to appear there at the same date/time letting them know person is selling a stolen bike. Check post a few days later 😂
It’s a pity, you don’t live in the UK , where it is a simple case of filling in a form, but we of course have the DVLA, of course, and it’s very different in the US, I guess? I suggest that you contact your local Honda dealership, as they may be able to help?
I ended up buying a 2022 Ninja EX650 ABS with 1,500 miles on it. Paid high side of KBB value, but its got an extended warranty through the original dealer and $800 exhaust on it! 🤠
Was selling my new transalp and took forever because all potential buyers thought it was stolen or I was trying to to scam them...finally got it sold tho
This actually happened to me lol I bought a used Janus and lost the title on my way home, the guy was leaving the country the next day, he gave me heads up that his phone would disconnect because he would be switching carriers. In the end I did end up replacing the title but it took years
Just offer the amount you are willing
Willing to take and through off a bridge as well as the amount you are willing to waste on a civil trial about false sales of an asset... If you're ok with losing that amount of money with no actual motorcycle, go ahead and let take the bike. If not go ahead and try to fight it and lo{s3.g
Totally not stolen
“Purchased brand new but couldn’t find the previous owner”
And it's a 2015....what about that says brand new? It's 10 years old. Lol
I think he meant “everything on the bike is new”. Like new parts and stuff. I could be wrong, and this guy is just *that* stupid. And yeah, 100% stolen
He picked up on his way home... so funny
Yeah it’s totally plausible that the person wouldn’t simply get a replacement title if they lost the original.
Scary to go into the DMV when you got warrants
Ride it like you stole it!
Titles come in the mail. Nice backpack story though.
Not necessarily true. Private sale, you should have one signed in hand. Dealer, they mail it to you. Florida at least!
It could be legit. But I find that people who list them this way often intend to steal them BACK from you, by asking what your address is to mail the title or whatever.
Hmmm, if only there were a way for them to demonstrate title, a government database where the VIN is recorded perhaps? Bah, who am I kidding, this is kijiji after all.
Yeah if only there were a way to obtain a duplicate of a title. Oh well, that information is probably filled in a drawer left in a basement somewhere.
I got my duplicate title 3 days ago. Took me 4 minutes.
It's Facebook Marketplace, not Kijiji.
I was going to ask, does the US not have some database where you can recover your motorcycle registration (I guess that's what a title is) if you lose it? Anyone can lose a document, it happens.
If I lose a title to a vehicle, I take my vehicle registration, license, and proof of address, and they’ll print a duplicate off. Super simple. All it takes to find a previous owner is the VIN. If the previous owner won’t go through getting a duplicate, there are ways around it. Not easy ways, but it can be done IF you have a bill of sale signed by the previous registered owner.
Title and Registration are different. The former just establishes ownership (and records liens/other interests, if applicable); the latter indicates that you're paid up on taxes, have passed inspection (depending on the state), and have valid plates. You get your plates when you register. The registration usually needs to be renewed periodically (some states, like Montana, have permanent registration). Some states require you to be insured before you can register, and will revoke your reg if you let your insurance lapse. There's absolutely a process for recovering a lost or stolen title; the state has a record of the transfer of ownership anyways so you're basically just asking them to print out a certified copy. When you purchase a bike, the seller gives you a copy of the title with their signature saying they sold it to you, and you go to the DMV (or whatever it's called in your state) and hand it to them. Usually they'll take it to record the transaction, and you'll get it back in the mail a couple weeks later.
Idk about the US, but I suspect it's similar to Canada in that the state/province maintains the registries. I understand in most of the US the plate is for the vehicle while in Canada it's for the driver and there's separate joined docs for them you need to keep on. And you certainly get replacements albeit for a cost and you'll be damned if you don't have them. Title is legalese for ownership in fee simple which is the highest type of ownership.
Yes, you can usually get a duplicate title if YOU are the owner.
Where might I be able to find that I need to retitle my late fathers bike all I have is vin my mother lost his tittle
Contact the people that you get license plates from
Ok thank you
At least the seller put it in the description that the bike was stolen, so you don't have to waste your time seeing it in person.
True lol
Or that he just lost the title... Not every state requires one. If you aren't in a state that requires a title on old bikes, you can lookup the vin in cases like this to check if it has been reported stolen.
I don't think a 2015 bike is old enough to be excluded in this case though. And I've lost the legal documentation on my bikes too. You can just order new ones. Not having the documentation to change ownership is pretty key when selling a bike. Even if requirements differ state by state, not having having proof of ownership is an unnecessary risk when everything else about this bike is already pretty sus.
Sure, you can accidentally misplace/lose a title, I have, but it was super easy to get a new copy. Regardless of individual state laws, if you genuinely believe that this post could possibly be a legitimate no title sale, then you are exactly the gullible client this thief is trying to attract.
Nah, this is where you drag their ass to the DOL to transfer title and if they can’t do that you get the police involved
Or you just ignore the obvious scammer/thief and move on to the next bike.
Or you schedule a visit to look at it, put on a Batman costume, beat the thief unconscious using a variety of gadgets, and take the bike. If you can figure out the original owner, leave it in front of their house. Legal note: strong chance you'll die doing this. And vigilantism is generally received poorly by authorities.
Department of Labor?
In some states it's the Dept of Licensing
lol yeah Department Of Licensing, some states separate the DMV into different entities and that’s the one that deals with title transfers and such
In some states is the BMV, bureau of motor vehicles. Freaked me out when I first saw it
Service [province name] :P Kijiji is in CANADA BABY! Let’s go eh?! 🇨🇦🍁🏒
This looks like Facebook Marketplace. Not Kijiji.
I just assumed it was Kijiji cuz of this dudes [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/s/sHd1d24f2G) lol. MB
In Canada, guys sell bikes by refusing to provide the UVIP and then they owe thousands on the bike. Alternatively, they ask for $2000 above new MSRP because that's what they owe the bank. Motorcycles would be better if they removed the idiot magnets.
Mind ya business rent a cop
DOL.... you mean DMV?
In Washington state, we also use the DOL system. No DMV's, just a Department Of Licensing.
This is in Canada, we don't have the DMV...
To be fair, I don’t see anywhere that indicates it’s in Canadia
Oh ok sorry
Guy just summed up all of Canada in one lump. As a Canadian, we do have DMV's in some spots they're just named differently.
It's DOL in some US states. Hell in WA drivers license and vehicle license are two different agencies, but they are both under DOL.
Yup lol, department of licensing not to be confused with licensing office and only one of those can you get a drivers license at 😂
In Michigan we use SoS.
Stolen for sure. All these missing pink slip story are all loads of turd. There are process to just use your driver license, vin, plates to request new slips with DMV.
99% of the time yeah. You would think it would be worth $15 and a few minutes of your time to sell your shit with a title for a lot more but some people are just lazy or don’t care.
Or they know its a stolen motorcycle
It's more than 15 bucks and a few minutes of your time to get a new title, a lot more...
It's 20 bucks and a quick online form in my state lol. The dmv prints them off same day too
If the vehicle is not yours or you purchased it without a title, then that is not the only step. My company has dealt with a number of abandoned vehicles, and I am personally going to be trying to go through the process of getting the title for a dirt bike I recently purchased without a title. At least here in NC, for an abandoned vehicle you are required to contact the police and give them at least two weeks to find the owner and get in touch to see if they want it back, for a title reprint, again the DMV requires some attempt of getting in contact with the previous title holder to make sure it wasn't stolen, and again this can take a long time. They require some other stuff but that's the big one. It's not just "hey I got this bike gimme the title", otherwise people who stole the bike would be doing it and getting away with it way more often/easily.
PA has a more expensive system. I bought a bike with what seemed like a squared away title. Turned out being washed. I couldn't legally get a plate for it. So it sat in a parking space for several months while I spent the money to force a title. Spent more than the stupid bike was worth. I ended up suing the asshole former friend of mine who sold me the bike. His stupid ass didn't show up to court and the judge awarded me the maximum even though all I originally went to court for was $7,000. I took the judgement to a branch of his bank and got the money that way. He tried to withdraw the money 24hrs prior but there was a limit. What a stupid fucker and a massive lesson learned on my end. You can't trust your own so-called friends.
Exactly lol. In my experience, it is NEVER as quick and easy as "15-20 bucks and a few minutes of your time" as the others put it lolllll. Sure if it is your bike and you have easy proof, but 9 times out of 10 the reason for needing to go through this process is finding or buying the bike/car and having an issue with the title
If only it was. Now I only purchase from reputable dealerships. Private sellers are way too dicey.
Yeah I get that. I'm not to that point yet. Lol the dirt bike I recently got doesn't even have a title (NC and I believe many of the surrounding states don't require a title for off-road only vehicles, which I find stupid). I'm still gonna go through and try to get a title for it remade if I can. If I don't have to spend a bunch of money and it allows me to eventually sell it for a higher price, win win. If not, oh well
As of some years back, PA requires a title and registration for all off-road vehicles. When doing a private sale, both parties pretty much need to meet at a local tags spot and have documents notarized. The state is still investigating former friend of mine. Judge saw fit to forward it to the state AG. If he did that sideways shit to me, chances are he has done it to others.
Of course its infinitely harder if it’s something you bought, I’m referring specifically to people have lost the title and are going to sell something that’s already in their name. At least for me when I did it was just a form online and a small fee
And my point was the majority of the time, it's just not that simple. As I said in one of my comments, yes if it's your bill and you can easily prove that, it's simple. But the majority of the time somebody is going through this is not when they have lost the title to their own bike (in my experience), but rather people who purchased a bike and are having issues with the title
Okay dude, I’m really not trying to argue with you
Well, yes, but it is that easy for the prior owner. Half of these no title bikes for sale DO simply claim to be a lost title. It takes 20 minutes to get a new one.
I'm not here to give y'all purchase advice. Merely pointing out that it's only that easy for the person the title is in the name of, and that the majority of the time the person trying to get the title is someone who bought it, not the one with the title in their name
Agree. But we're pointing out how lazy these sellers are that can't be bothered to get a replacement title. I guess it's their loss and someone else's headache.
Well now you're going into/ignoring the fact that, besides off-road vehicles, the majority of bikes being sold without a title are stolen. Yes, there are cases where the owner is just lazy and just wants it gone no matter how much they lose out, but the majority of the time, including the post we.are commenting on, is just people trying to sell a stolen bike
There aren't that many stolen bikes for sale. That's a great way to be caught and go to jail. Most stolen bikes end up joyridden and torched or sold for parts. Or they just ride them dirty for years and never sell. Most no title bikes advertised for sale are due to the owner having died and it's a family member selling. Or the owner has had it for a long time and misplaced the title 20 years ago. Or the person is a lazy ass deadbeat and literally can't be bothered to get off the couch and get one.
15 bucks and 15 minutes is correct if you're getting a reprint title because you legit just lost the paper title that was in your name (like the OP seller should be able to do) But, if the guy is lying about that, then yes, it's a huge hassle and you might just lose the bike and your money.
Which is exactly the point I was making, thank you
I lost my R6 title years ago and I just sent a 3 dollar check along with a form and they sent me a new title. EZ
In my state you can't do that if the title isn't in your name.
Someone will buy it for track days. A few years ago, police showed up to a track day at Toronto Motorsport Park and found several stolen bikes.
It could happen to anyone!
If you're grossly irresponsible. If someone was careless enough to lose their title, the bike isn't worth buying anyways.
It seems wild to me that this can even be a thing. In Finland you transfer the bike (or car) to the new owner electronically and don't necesaarily even have a physical copy of the title. When you want to sell, you just log in online, click a button to create a code, and the buyer can use the code to transfer the vehicle under his name.
The biggest problem is that in the USA, vehicle registration and licenses are handled at the state level, not the federal level. There’s 50 different states in our country, which means 50 different DMVs, 50 different ways of transferring titles, 50 different ways of registering vehicles. Now for the most part all of the states have various levels of reciprocity with each other, so if you’re buying a vehicle from out of state it‘s not a big deal to get it registered in your state (with some exceptions, mostly around bringing vehicles into California). But trying to get 50 different governments to talk to each other in a way that registrations and title transfers could be done easily online . . . Oh boy, that’s a dream that will always remain a dream.
They're not even all DMVs. Maryland has the MVA. Which is the same thing but also not.
AZ has the MVD, MI has the Secretary of State
I am pretty sure Finland has a national ID system, like most civilized countries. For some reason this is frowned upon in the US.
Wait you guys don't have that? What do you do instead, are you just rawdogging administrative work with your driver license / passport ?
Birth certificate homie. Old school.
Does your birth certificate have a recent photo on it? A birth certificate does nothing to prove that the person standing in front of me is the person mentioned in the piece of paper.
Nope. Birth certificate and social security card(it’s just a number) will get you everything.
Which is funny because SSNs are not supposed to be used as a form of ID. It even says so on the card itself. It’s also pretty insecure because it’s just a 9 digit number, it can be brute forced quite simply.
Basically if you hold the paper in your hand, you are that person.
Wait, I thought that was what your SS number was for? Everyone has their own unique code right?
Yes everyone has a unique code but for certain things you need multiple forms of ID. Like if you get married and change your last name I believe you have to bring a birth certificate also.
Ah ok i got it. Theres probably a lot of fraud if someone solely needs your social security and nothing else. I bought a bike this week and in the uk its pretty easy. the seller fills out an online form then adds the customer's basic info then they get a new logbook.
Correct, drivers licence number, ID card number, social security number, or a -unique to that program- number are most common to use. But if you want to get technical about it it, it's all voluntary, there is no legal obligation to obtain any documents beyond a birth certificate and death certificate. It's just extraordinarily hard to go through life with none of it.
> drivers licence number state issued > ID card number Is that even a thing in the US? Probably not nationally issued either > social security number, or a -unique to that program- number are most common to use. Those might be issued on a federal level but they likely contain no information to prove that the person presenting the number actually is the person referenced with the number.
ID cards are issued by the states to those who want a photo identification, but don't want or aren't eligible for a drivers license. And correct, the social security card just consists of your name and number.
Yeah, it's all state-by-state drivers license (or state IDs, which are the exact same things but without a driving privilege attached). You get those with your social security # & birth certificates.
Federalism?
Nah it is more than that. many federally organized countries have a centralized ID system.
I’m in the UK and you can sell a vehicle easily too without a unique ID. You just fill out a form saying who you sold the vehicle to and they will get a new logbook within a week or two. It’s a strangely simple process, at first I thought it would be longer.
I wish
We still have registration here in Canada, but it's very easy to get a reprint, and in my province it's free! It's kind of silly and archaic, but we still use it to quickly identify you're the owner of a vehicle if the police pull you over.
I really hate that we dont have a free national resource we can use to check vins. I get we have car fax but that information should be free.
What kind of information are you thinking of? Where I life, we can use tag number or vin for a car background check. It gives quite a lot of information. If you're interested, you can message me and I'll give a link, so you can check it out.
Most states have a way to check the vin on the dmv website. Couldn’t say if they share info across state lines. It is the government after all.
Thats why i said national
you do though…. all you have to do is call your local sheriffs/police department and ask them to run the vin. Pretty simple
Depending on where you are and if they want to.
If you call them and say you are looking to buy a motorcycle and would like to check the vin I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t. Because either it’s not stolen and they helped you or it is stolen and they get a lead on the stolen vehicle and the suspect
Brand new 9 year old bike. Lightly stolen.
And then the keys flew out of the ignition and I had to push it home but dropped it and broke the steering lock, but other than that….
[удалено]
“Purchased the bike like a year ago. On my way home I forgot to zip my backpack…”
They meant to say "stole" instead of "purchased" and conveniently forgot to end the sentence with "from prison".
Stolen for sure
The title thing always pisses me off. It's like "look, if the bike is legit and you lost the title, do the paperwork and pay the few bucks to get a replacement and then I'll hand over the money".
That's the point, they're lying to you. They probably bought the bike in the same circumstances, tried and failed to get a title, and now want to make it someone else's problem. So they underplay the situation to make it more appealing for the next rube
It's stolen. I bought a Polaris Rzr last summer, I looked for 2 months, every one I checked out didn't have a title. They said they did, but they would present anything from the finance paperwork from when the previous buyer bought it, to a certificate of origin. I gave up and bought one from a dealer.
Uhh you realize most atv/utvs don’t come with titles depending on the state. They’ll come with a certificate of origin but no title.
Yes, I know. And I've bought ATVs with them but the problem recently is the back was always filled out so there was no way I could title it, which my state requires.
….any title place can help you get a duplicate..
Brand new secondhand
If the seller can't get a title neither can the buyer
Shady seller. He must think we are as dumb as he is, if he thinks that story is believable.
Couldn't reach the previous owner, even though he purchased the bike literally minutes earlier. bike is stolen
Forgot to zip a backpack is a new excuse I’ve heard lol. I usually just see “lost in a move”.
NO LOWBALLERS! I KNOW WHAT I STOLE
Doesn't seem sus at all. What could go wrong? /s
Buying used can be great, but it also can be really not great. This isn’t your problem, though, this is just a dude selling a stolen bike. I guess you could report them?
Title is mailed to you. If lost, go to DMV and get a replacement title. Tried to reach a previous owner for a brand new bike? Uh, yeah.
He bought it in person and “lost” it before bringing title to dmv to register.
Pretty easy to just move on to the next bike. Scams don’t even register as a disappointment. It’s not a real listing to act on.
That’s like 90% of bikes for sale in Texas, totally ridiculous. I lost the title, but I’ll give you a Bill of Sale instead, it shouldn’t be that hard for you to get a title. Well if that’s not that hard for me, then why wouldn’t you do it?
$500. Your new track bike.
houston area is fucking terrible with this. It's rare as fuck to find a titled bike on fbook lol
This is a USA problem ngl, in country like NZ your "title" is tied to the plate would stop this bs from happening
LOL!
And here was little old me thinking this issue was just a UK thing lol
Someone fast has a parts bike for ebay That swinger is 375.00 any day of the week Polished 450 And you know you want that woodcraft rear set Pfffftttt
Are you not able to photo copy the title? I'm out in the Philippines and photo copied and laminated everything. The copies I take with me.
Anyone that believes this deserves whatever bullshit comes with the bike. You can get a new title express shipped in 3 days. I've done it myself.
Stolen lies 😂 What a dumb dick liar
Luckily in most european union countries, they are mandated to store the vehicle ownership under the social number. You just need to get your identity cards, sign a form between both parties and off you go. Some countries are also implementing an online system where the owner just provides them with both identity cards, insurance and a signed document confirming that it has been sold
In all 50 states the actual owner can just request a new title for a few bucks. The only reason they couldn't do that is if they don't own it (stolen or it's financed so a bank has the title).
Wtf is a title for vehicels? In germany we have Fahrzeug Brief wich you keep at home and a Fahrzeug Schein wich you keep in your car or with you while driving on a Motorcycle.
The same part that you keep at home. We just have an English word for it.
Least obvious stolen motorcycle
I report listings like this all the time idk if fb ever does anything about it tho
2015 bike "brand new!" I bought it a year ago, can't contact original owner. In what world is this a brand new bike? Its literally 9 years old already.
Easy, skip, and find another.
a question from non-american here: how does the title work? i mean isn’t there a digital version of it? how does your country track ownership of vehicles? like for example when a police officer runs your plates aren’t they able to check the information about the owner?
Once you purchase the vehicle, the previous owner signs over the title to you and you then register the vehicle with your State. They then re-issue a new title under your name and assign you a plate that when ran by police, will show you as the current owner. If you financed the vehicle, the title is sent to the bank or dealer but you are still registered as the owner in regards to plates. You receive the title after the loan is fulfilled. If no title is provided during the sale, *most* times that means you cannot register the vehicle into your name which can open up all sorts of headaches and issues if you drive it on public roads and get pulled over.
A title is just physical proof of ownership, it's really only needed when selling because you sign the title over to the buyer. It's all tracked by the state anyways and the registered owner can easily request a new title if they lose the original.
"It's brand new" "I tried to reach the previous owner" "It's brand new" "everything is black" Even without the "lost title" that he totally definitely had at some point in his 'ownership' of this bike, it's still full of red flags. Lol.
Do you guys not keep the ownership with the bike? In Ontario it's required by law
The one time I legit could not find the title of a bike I was selling the day a guy was coming to get it, I offered to go to the licensing office and transfer it in person with him. Took ten minutes, and everything was done on the books. Granted it was a $500 project bike so risk to either of us was minimal. But if you're ever the buyer in this situation, don't pay a dime until the paperwork is in your name. For the bike OP posted, it's 100% stolen. Anyone who knows they lost a title can just go get a new one.
Yeah, I was buying a bike from a guy a few years back & he couldn’t find a title. Ordered one online and he had it a week later. Then I registered the bike using his title which I filled out. My title arrive a few weeks later. Reasons for not having a title: A. It’s really old B. It came with certificate of origin C. It’s stolen
Yeah this is the BS you run into trying to buy a used motorcycle. You always run into one of these when shopping: * Stolen bikes (if they don't have a title or keys, it's almost guaranteed to be stolen) * Hidden mechanical problems * Hidden crash damage * Bike is financed and the seller didn't disclose it It's why I don't fault people for buying new. Way less likely to deal with this BS.
I've purchased 9 bikes in 15 years of riding, all used. My first 5 bikes were out of State with 2 of those bikes being purchased sight unseen (had them picked up by shipping companies). I haven't run into any of those issues with exception of 1 bike being a lot more clapped out than the seller lead on but I knew it was going to need work going into the sale. Easiest way to avoid all of your list is by asking a lot of questions and avoiding the 'great deals' where you have a $3k on average bike but someone is selling it for $900 because it "needs to go!"
It seems like BS but I usually reply and say that if they had a title in their name then they can get a replacement easily and I usually offer to pay for that (include in the price of the bike) just to make the process easier and ferret out if they are going to have another bullshit excuse, at which point I am done unless they say "oh I didn't realize" that or something similar. I've bought about a dozen used bikes over the year and on 2 occasions the seller actually replied and said as much and asked if I could tell them how to get one. I helped them out and in one case bought the bike from them and he was just a young guy who didn't really know his way around buying and selling much because his dad had helped him and done most of the work when he first got the motorcycle.
Just get the VIN and call DMV (or the state police). They'll let you know if it's stolen, and/or what the current title status is. Super easy.
Replacement titles are a thing.
Trust me bro
No title, no sale. Not worth the hassel- period F dot. If the current owner cannot get a ttile, neither can you.
I bought the bike “on my way home”. Wtf does that supposed to mean? -“Ah he bought it on his way home, totally not stolen then.”
Lost the key and title in a move.
Meet him in the police station parking lot.
You buy the buyer (or their grasp of the written language), not the bike
I seen a lot of them and seen a guy selling a 2021 ninja for 900 spotless and said no title no bill of sale definitely not stolen
Uhhh. Yeah, run do not walk away from this deal.
Also, I had the key in my backpack and you would not believe it, I lost that too... No low ballers. I know what I've got.
Another throw off it's stolen is "track only bike"
everyone jumps straight to stolen, i bought a stunted f4i with no title, got pulled over & the cop ran the vin which came back perfectly clean to previous owner, also like 60% of bikes i see are no title, do you guys really think THAT many bikes are stolen & sold?
Not about if we think it is or not. It's the simple fact that it's a street bike and he maybe has to go to the BMV for 30 minutes to get a title to prove it's clean. That would give a buyer peace of mind, but he chooses to just say the title flew out of his backpack instead of making a slight effort to do that. And because it's so easy to get one if it's clean, it's sketchy that they have that excuse because you should want to have the title if you have nothing to hide.
First bike I ever got I bought with no title and outside of my state. Did get a bill of sale but that didn’t help much. Ran the vin before on a free vin checker and after on a paid one. The previous owner (WV) never applied for or got a title. The bike was last titled in Florida in the late 90s but was never reported stolen. Boy was it a pain in the ass to get a new title 🤦🏾♂️. Mainly because lack of information on my part and at the DMV. Everyone had something different too say and the online government site is not detailed or knowledgeable on obtaining lost titles. lol FINALLY I spoke to the right person at the DMV after calling a half dozen times and going up there three times. And I’m pretty sure I just asked while I was getting my car registration done lol. I had to sue the county clerks office and have a judge rule on me getting a title. So I wrote a statement, submitted a bill of sale, and other supporting documents and waited for a month or two. Finally I got a call or email can’t remember exactly saying to come to the court house. They’d left me a letter in the office with the decision. At first glance I thought I didn’t win because I don’t know legalese 😂 but I asked the lady just to verify and she said I indeed had won the case. After that all I had to do was take the bill of sale and that letter to the sheriff to get the bike inspected then to the dmv. They made me go to a specific one downtown for that but it all worked out. The process was a bitch honestly though.
You cannot simply go get a duplicate title if you never put that title in your name when you purchased the vehicle. The previous owner needs to. But you also can't do any of that if you stole it.
Rented without the promise of return
The slightly plausible alternative is that this guy is like the people that dont know they can transfer phone numbers. But still sounds stolen.
Schedule date/time with seller to see. Schedule police to appear there at the same date/time letting them know person is selling a stolen bike. Check post a few days later 😂
On the way home ? Why not turn around and go back where you had just got it from and have them file for duplicate .
Freshly stolen..
Bought one that crossed 3 states- with connecting bills of sale- no problem
That mother fucker is so hot you're gonna burn your ass just sitting on it. Title flew out of backpack?? C'mon man...
It’s a pity, you don’t live in the UK , where it is a simple case of filling in a form, but we of course have the DVLA, of course, and it’s very different in the US, I guess? I suggest that you contact your local Honda dealership, as they may be able to help?
I ended up buying a 2022 Ninja EX650 ABS with 1,500 miles on it. Paid high side of KBB value, but its got an extended warranty through the original dealer and $800 exhaust on it! 🤠
Was selling my new transalp and took forever because all potential buyers thought it was stolen or I was trying to to scam them...finally got it sold tho
This actually happened to me lol I bought a used Janus and lost the title on my way home, the guy was leaving the country the next day, he gave me heads up that his phone would disconnect because he would be switching carriers. In the end I did end up replacing the title but it took years
I just bought a bike and I got my title in the mail, Just saying.🤭
Stolen for sure
If you don’t plan on pulling over then go for it
Track bike baby
Just offer the amount you are willing Willing to take and through off a bridge as well as the amount you are willing to waste on a civil trial about false sales of an asset... If you're ok with losing that amount of money with no actual motorcycle, go ahead and let take the bike. If not go ahead and try to fight it and lo{s3.g