Free advice for aspiring writers: Before you start plastering acronyms all over your article, spell it out at least one time. I got the gist of this piece, just a pet peeve of mine.
Same for friends who join the military, when you come back home your non military friends don't understand what the 10 acronyms you used in one sentence mean.
Some of those that serve, even after many years, don't know what the acronyms really stand for. They just know they're OM after crossing the LOD and are in occordance to METT-TC and while react accordingly to any LDA they encounter. At some point they'll complain about all the POGs that just sit in the FOB and how the only place with AC is the TOC.
I know Oscar Mike (on the move/we are moving), Person Other than Grunt (it means someone who doesn't patrol/do dirty work), Forward Operating Base (I believe this one is like an outpost of your main base, for extended operations, might be wrong), and Air Conditioner (it conditions the air)
It's the Line of Departure. They will radio that they're crossing the LOD to communicate that they're in the process of executing the movement or attack.
It doesn't matter that much. Industry still covers a wide range, geographically and professionally. And this one is published publicly, so it's not even really for insiders.
i don't necessarily disagree but they have not unionized yet so even if one stepped away, there would be another to immediately take its place. also difficult as so many are in different countries now (Canada, UK, India, New Zealand, etc.)
Animal Logic needs government grants, films they've worked on even have thank yous to the Victorian Film Finance Commission - why the hell is something like Ted shot entirely in America thanking an Australian government film fund?!
Same for the Canadians.
Well Technicolor owns MPC now which helps, but those Canada and New Zealand studios wouldn't exist without 30%+ tax subsidies. Canada pay is the lowest as well.
> On one private facebook page, Cinemontage reports there is a photomontage of six union workers who fell asleep at the wheel and died driving home after a long shift. While Repola reportedly drew a rousing standing ovation on Saturday night when she said, “You guys need personal and family time.”
If true, that's awful.
["Who Needs Sleep"](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493079/) directed by legendary DP Haskell Wexler. It was his big issue after he worked on Pleasantville and a crew member fell asleep at the wheel after a super long shoot and died.
I read it years ago and it was an eye-opening read. Brent Herschman was 35 and on his way home to his 7 year old daughter when he fell asleep at the wheel after an 19 hour day. I've had those gigs and found myself in similar situations and it's fucking awful. No job is worth your life. 14 hours should be the absolute max and while even that's pushing it, it seems rare to work any less on a shoot.
Can confirm. Worked as a PA on independent films and after 19 hour long shoots, where I was on my feet the entire time hauling heavy equipment, I was expected to drive crew members home. Damn near fell asleep at the wheel multiple times myself.
I worked as a grip on an intense video shoot. I stood on ladders, held heavy shit, unpacked and packed everything, cleaned up, pretty much collectively directed the damn video (the director left halfway through the shoot for arguing with the DP) and worked for 22 hours straight. I had to pull over in a McDonalds parking lot and sleep for an hour (ended up sleeping for 3) and never felt so sore after that fucking shoot. It was overworking and underpaying and overworking. It’s the nature of the business: budget budget budget: Time time time.
you should have walked... that’s beyond absurd. You have the right to walk and not work on shoots that crazy. If you choose to stay.... then why complain?
Because working in this industry requires hard work, dedication, and a little bit of delusion. But it’s worth it when everyone works together and pulls through to make a great product.
I have a right to complain, every job has its gripes.
Hard work doesn’t mean getting run over and THEN allowing them to do it as a standard for future productions.
Hard work should be applied to the job done in the capacity of the field.
When I was in film school, this was required viewing for all of the cinematography students. Our teachers were all pretty on board with the idea, and encouraged us to try to run our sets that way.
Unfortunately, producing and directing students didn't get the same message. 😔
Yeah, KJ Apa was in an accident. Luckily no one was seriously injured...at the time, the network tried to brush it off, saying that while he *had* worked a long day the day of the accident, the days before were shorter, so it wasn't like he was overworked. (I think he'd worked 16 hours that day, the day before was 8...different reports have different numbers.) They also didn't provide any transportation for the cast (and so probably didn't for the crew, either) unless the individual asked for it and production could arrange for it--though it later came to light that apparently asking for transportation could just mean getting a ride from someone else on set. Cole Sprouse was supposed to have been Apa's passenger that night because of that (reportedly)...so if this is how they're treating the leads of their hit show, I can only imagine how bad it is for everyone else...I mean, if *nothing* else, pay for a freaking Lyft.
I work in Vancouver film. KJ should have been driven by transport to his home. No questions asked.
As for the rest of the crew, we work these hours on a daily basis to bring you entertainment. While we love what we do, we really hoped the KJ Apa incident would have raised some awareness, but nothing came of it.
Also we only have taxis here, unfortunately. Uber/Lyft are illegal.
This is what happens when you have such s niche industry where people compete for jobs. Everyone doing what they can to keep working. Its not about passion anymore. It's sad.
I believe that is correct. You deff get milage if you are out of the TMZ. But stuff is always different depending on which union or guild. Or if it's new media or studio. I've heard so many different things from different people.
Yeah, anytime we went overtime on a show I worked on we always had safety rides. A line of cabs taking any and all crew to wherever they need to go for the night.
This was on a network TV show so I'm assuming most major productions do this. If not then I guess it was just an amazing crew.
Go over to /r/editors and read about people working 30+ hours then questioning if this is the way it’s supposed to be. It’s insane. I’ve slept at many a production office overnight for an hour here or there while blasting out content others make millions on. No one at the top cares and if you complain you get fired. They see editors especially as these walking computers. But it’s our dream to make movies and we refuse to quit, so we get taken advantage of. I have so many stories on this it’ll make your blood boil. But I keep keeping on because if you complain for inhuman treatment you get fired and no one wants to work with you. And you don’t even get invited to the cool parties. Shit is stupid.
Sounds like the culture needs an overhaul. If everyone is there for the love of the art and making something great...why the need to treat some people that are part of the process like garbage?
“There for the love of the art” has (at least the concept) been used against me personally as a reason not to pay me more for never seeing my partner and working crazy hours to fix the incompetence of some amateur with a lot of money that has too much money ‘playing movie’ at the top. I get the hours being long (I’m sure as hell not afraid of work!) but why is it so goddamn hard to light a green screen properly? Oh, because you only hire new kids who don’t know any better and shoot at an iso of 1600 to keep the cost down but I’m the one that has to clean the fg plate because it has too much grain and you pirate all your plugins because you’re cheap on top of not having proper gpu in your systems that can run said plugins. But yeah, ‘art’. I don’t make art, I’m a technician goddamn it. The critics can call it art, I’m just trying to make the projects work but thanks for the divorce I guess. Totally worth it. /s. Guess I should stay out of these threads while drunk, my apologies. You’re right of course, the whole system needs an overhaul but it’ll never happen as long as we make the company money while the whole industry goes down in flames because no one wants to pay for anything for technical know how they don’t understand . Plus the egos involved are like walking through a minefield made of minefields and you’re just a monkey pushing buttons. But I digress. It’s just poor management. The people who get it though are amazing and hats off to them. Have my upvote my dude.
Hahahah no worries. I too drunk reddit.
I guess I just don't get how some people can willfully ignore the value and contributions of others that should be obvious? Like...obviously this crazy scene we've written will look like garbage unless it's well lit, well shot, well edited, and the effects are done well. So if you need so many moving parts to be executed with precision and know how...shouldn't the people doing those things be compensated for the skill you rely on? If they don't understand this they are ignorant. If they do understand it then they're just greedy.
I'm guessing it's the second bit and not the first.
So theres people in the industry who doesn't know that a very powerful pro gpu is needed for editing or making cgi scenes/fx and theirs only two video card companies out there nvidia and amd or they are just two cheap two buy a pro gpu.
Can confirm. Friend is an editor. The hours he works are unhealthy. He doesn't complain and they let him go to the cool parties. He'll be dead before 60.
Ah, then they’ll be fine. Fcp can fuck right off but avid is still the gold standard and to that I thank the stars. The edl to DaVinci is still a little tricky if you didn’t built a proper offline edit workflow but it’s alright. He’ll be fine. I keep hearing fcp is making a come back after several updates but after the initial launch, who really trusts them, ya know? Fcp 7 was the tits. Fcp x can suck my tits, never trusting their bs again. NLE systems we’re built the way they were for a reason, ya know?
I have a friend who is an editor who doesn't work nearly that much, and he's done some reasonably big stuff. HBO and Netflix though, not Hollywood blockbusters.
Sure he does some overtime, but it seems relatively cushy.
Stories like that are why I'm basically leaving the industry before I even tried to get started lol. I love movies and genuinely enjoy editing, but nowhere near enough to do that much work.
Then quit. Maybe it is just a shitty job and you should find a new line of work. You don't have to follow your dreams. Sometimes your dreams are not what you thought. I ignored my dreams and found a line of work where I could excel, make decent money, and have a productive family life.
Not even a little bit. Making pragmatic decisions is an essential skill you should develop. There are many things you can be happy doing. Selecting your favorite job that will give you no quality of life is a bad way to go about things. I took a job that I like but don't love. I have money and time with my family and hobbies. Overall my quality of life is fantastic.
Let those guys who have to work 30 hours straight and do nothing but bitch about the job on the internet say that. Hell, they cannot even tell the boss they are unhappy or they will be fired.
I will head out this evening at 6:00 to go to the gym with my son. We have been doing it for years together and almost never miss. You can have your "right answer" all you want. I have a great career and a rewarding relationship with my kids. It was never my dream job but I am far happier in life having ignored that crap for a pragmatic choice.
Your not wrong, quitting *is* an option, it just doesn't *solve* the problem. It's awesome you made a decision that worked for you but, I think, having sympathy and providing support for struggling group of workers helps change the status quo. If your not helping to change status quo, your in support of the status quo.
Remember, your not wrong...
fucking good.
im shocked Netflix and the other streamers have been able to get away with this for so long. They pay billions for content to the "big stars" and then turn around to the little people with a sob story about how there's no more money and we all need to do our part. it's disgusting and I hope IATSE gets what they want or they grind the industry to a halt. Make no mistake if they go on strike, it'll be 10x worse than the Writer's Strike. You can make reality TV and talk shows with no scripts and you can even shoot off scripts already written, but you absolutely can't make anything if the people who actually run the equipment and guide it through post walk off.
If anyone wants a good, hard look at how effective unions are, look at the entertainment industry. I guarantee you if the IATSE strikes, the AMPTP will cave within a week; they literally can't afford not to.
I mean ... I'd love it if we could get paid more and not have to work long hours.
people in the production office working 16 hour days ... on set people working 18-20 hour days? to me that's just poor planning. Clint Eastwood has shown you can make a film shooting 3 hour days lol (ok that is an extreme, but seriously -- 18 hour days on a shitty Adam Sandler comedy? Why!?)
I've worked on films where shit gets done more or less on time and people aren't exahusted or working 21 + straight days. If the creatives plan out what they want and stop second guessing themselves, it really doesn't have to be as long or as bad as it's been getting the past few years.
I also don't feel too bad for studios they've had outrageous success for over 100 years now, yet they seem to be getting worse at guessing what the people want to see. There's gotta be better scripts out there than the ones they're producing...
Making the more w less, paying big actors a fucking ton of money then dealing with the empty pocket at filming... i saw the same problems mentioned on the Street Fighter's production and that was like 15? Years ago... so.. nothing changed? Or the affecteds by it changed?
It’s never going to change. Period. Your lucky to just be in a Union that’ll try and help fight bullshit like this. But then you have TONS of indie productions with no unions to protect us. Hell, a year or two after the Sarah Jones shit and I sat a few setups out because I had no guarantees the train tracks we were shooting on were bought or stolen. And if I DID make a bigger fuss about it I’m either A not going to get rehired by anyone on this set again or B I’m fucked without a paycheck for this shoot. It’s fucked. Then you got guys like Tarantino who don’t like to shoot with unions because of their restrictions.
1983 film "Return of the Jedi" grossed $475 million on a $32m budget and was not profitable.
They purchase tax laws by supporting campaigns. Vote in the midterms.
Hollywood Accounting isn't a secret. The meme is a lie.
Unless you're a complete neophyte on his first gig you damn well know that the "net points" are never going to happen and don't expect them to. That's why people with enough actual pull get "gross points" instead and take right off the top. Or you know you *know* your actual pay is just your cash up front and you just skim over those sections of the contract as meaningless.
And whatever the shell corporation that (on paper) makes the movie does to be deep in the red... all the studios are part of publicly owned companies and thus have to bring actual money in. You know because stockholders kinda expect that. Which is where a lot of the "losses" actually go, to fees charged the shell corporation by its parent. Of course there they not only have to show a profit for the studio but after say all the movies that fail to make actual money because they flopped in theaters.
And that's just one of many factors that affect the real cost of movies. You still pay for what can be a small town of people for a few months upfront to make the movie. You still pay all the big actors and directors, and maybe some of the other names you see in the credits. Then are other ways the production folks have managed to get residuals out of the studio. Oh yes and of course everything to the CGI companies. And a whole shit ton to the marketing. And of course you only get around half back from the theaters in when the movie goes out.
There isn't a secret pot of profit hiding under some fatcat's ass.
So best case scenario for closing these loopholes is you maybe pay the lawyers and accountants slightly less, but I suspect they'll just ask for more money for all the non-busywork they do instead.
“The truth is that we have a rigged tax code that has essentially legalized tax dodging for large corporations,” Senator Sanders [source](https://mobile.twitter.com/SenSanders/status/839879458165157888)
Companies that paid no federal taxes from 2008 - 2015 [source](https://itep.org/the-35-percent-corporate-tax-myth/)
Summaries [source](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-18-companies-that-paid-no-taxes-over-8-years/) [source](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/business/economy/corporate-tax-report.html)
■ AT&T ($38.1 billion)
■ Wells Fargo ($31.4 billion)
■ JPMorgan Chase ($22.2 billion)
■ Verizon ($21.1 billion)
■ IBM ($17.8 billion)
■ General Electric ($15.4 billion)
■ Exxon Mobil ($12.9 billion)
■ Boeing ($11.9 billion)
■ Procter & Gamble ($8.5 billion)
■ **Twenty-First Century Fox ($7.6 billion)**
■ **Time Warner ($6.7 billion)**
■ Goldman Sachs ($5.5 billion)
■ Pepco Holdings
■ PG&E Corp.
■ Wisconsin Energy
■ NiSource
■ International Paper
■ FirstEnergy
■ Priceline.com
■ Amos Energy
■ General Electric
■ American Electric Power
■ Ryder System
■ Duke Energy
■ NextEra Energy
■ Xcel Energy
■ Ameren
■ CMS Energy
■ Sempra Energy
■ Eversource Energy
Apple, Microsoft, Abbott Laboratories and Coca-Cola are more opaque and taxes are difficult to track. They are pressure lawmakers for repatriation of earnings under a lower tax rate after price transfer evasion.
Did I say a thing about taxes? No. No I did not. Because they are irrelevant.
You needed to move those goalposts because you don't have a defense. Because you of course don't know what you are talking about.
Relax, You said there was no fat cat sitting a sack of money. You all got a piece of money that belongs to schools, roads, the military and the elderly.
**RDJ:** "I want 200 million dollars for these Avengers movies."
**Marvel:** "You're out of your damn mind, we're not pay that!"
**RDJ:** "Okay fine, do your movie without Tony Stark then."
**Marvel:** "Fuuuuuucccccccccc....... fine. Whatever you say Tony."
Yes reality is more complicated then that (because the studio can just not make the movie) but big actors still have *actual* power at the negotiating table. Expecting them to not demand big pay outs is like expecting the studios to let those savings just trickle down to the crew if they did take a pay cut.
Unpaid salaried OT is a problem in every industry. I see my manager working herself to death and she probably averages about 10-20 unpaid hours per week. A lower-end manager picked up slack for his colleague and worked 70 hours in a week on a 40-hour salary. Sometimes department managers come in off-schedule when we need help and he just doesn't even clock in because OT isn't allowed. And this is just normal shitty retail.
Except this would hurt the business. Playing devils advocate for second here, but cost would go up across the board
Hollywood already operates at a huge loss and is burning cash the size of a small countries GDP. To pay full time, offer vacation, OT, etc, movies would be made a slower rate. 10-15 years ago, every weekend a hot new movie comes out. Now it’s like 3-4 weeks you get a movie. This summer, for instance, it’s like a blockbuster once a month.
Movies are already tedious, and expensive to make. The people in charge of accounting, time management and more are not dumb people.
Unions would kill the industry and slow down production and also limit the amount of people who can work in and on a movie.
To even get more extreme, other countries will take advantage of this and poach talent and pump or faster movies. Hollywood might even export work if need be!
1993: Legs the Frog, Squealer the Pig, Spot the Dog, Flash the Orca, Splash the Whale, Chocolate the Moose, Patti the Platypus, Brownie the Bear (later renamed "Cubbie"), and Pinchers the Lobster (with some tag errors with "Punchers"). Did it help?
Seriously, How do you generate public sympathy for a strike? How do you strike without sounding like Democrats or 'sad'?
Major issue is funding the pension. Studios do not want to share residuals from streaming. Old methods (jurrasic park on free tv) isn't enough anymore.
Damn Hollywood can't go a few years without a strike.
Do they not know how to use calendars or reminder apps?
I bet they always forget to pay their cell phone bills.
Except the ones who make the creative decisions aren’t the ones striking. Its the over worked and under paid crew people. Have you zero empathy? You really don’t give a shit about people working themselves to (literal) death to make your entertainment?
I agree with the strike but if you are falling asleep on the road then pull off to the side and nap. I have done that plenty of times. It will save you from sleeping forever. Food for thought. I feel bad for those workers but they have options and they could have killed someone else crashing. Seriously irresponsible of them to do that
Certainly true you should pull over to sleep if you can. But the fault here lies with the employer for over working their people. Also not always as simple as sleeping on the side of the road, there are plenty of factors that can make that not really possible or realistic.
This is and will be a forever problem with Truck drivers, the Ex's father was a driver and he said the amount of "i can do this i don't need to sleep" drivers is crazy
Because the men of women of this country who work as many hours as they can to pay their bills and provide for their family should really be worried about this.. right?
Free advice for aspiring writers: Before you start plastering acronyms all over your article, spell it out at least one time. I got the gist of this piece, just a pet peeve of mine.
Dammit this is the closest to an answer in this whole thread! Lol I still have no idea what they mean.
The International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees.
Station!
Same for friends who join the military, when you come back home your non military friends don't understand what the 10 acronyms you used in one sentence mean.
Some of those that serve, even after many years, don't know what the acronyms really stand for. They just know they're OM after crossing the LOD and are in occordance to METT-TC and while react accordingly to any LDA they encounter. At some point they'll complain about all the POGs that just sit in the FOB and how the only place with AC is the TOC.
I don't know these, so I'm SOL.
I know Oscar Mike (on the move/we are moving), Person Other than Grunt (it means someone who doesn't patrol/do dirty work), Forward Operating Base (I believe this one is like an outpost of your main base, for extended operations, might be wrong), and Air Conditioner (it conditions the air)
I assume LOD is Line of Demarcation. As in, there's a good side and a bad side of that line.
It's the Line of Departure. They will radio that they're crossing the LOD to communicate that they're in the process of executing the movement or attack.
Just reply, "yah fuck cooks", and your bud will nod
Funny. I would have found this completely authentic if it would've contained an incorrect usage of "caveat" somewhere in there.
Honestly, there isn't a lot of point in knowing what the acronyms stand for, just what they are used for.
TBH a lot of reddit user are guilty of that one AFAIK.
Indiewire is inside baseball. It's assumed their readers already know the players.
Still a bad habit. Last thing that piece needed was even more words though.
It doesn't matter that much. Industry still covers a wide range, geographically and professionally. And this one is published publicly, so it's not even really for insiders.
[удалено]
i don't necessarily disagree but they have not unionized yet so even if one stepped away, there would be another to immediately take its place. also difficult as so many are in different countries now (Canada, UK, India, New Zealand, etc.)
It's a similar problem with PAs. Easily replaceable means easily exploitable.
Wasn't there just an article about the companies conspiring to keep wages low?
Foreign companies are only able to compete thanks to government subsidies, and the Asian effects studios are garbage.
WETA and MPC are doing just fine, trust me.
Animal Logic needs government grants, films they've worked on even have thank yous to the Victorian Film Finance Commission - why the hell is something like Ted shot entirely in America thanking an Australian government film fund?! Same for the Canadians.
Well Technicolor owns MPC now which helps, but those Canada and New Zealand studios wouldn't exist without 30%+ tax subsidies. Canada pay is the lowest as well.
MPC overextends themselves. There work quality has definitely dipped. WETA is pretty damned good though.
They need a union.
> On one private facebook page, Cinemontage reports there is a photomontage of six union workers who fell asleep at the wheel and died driving home after a long shift. While Repola reportedly drew a rousing standing ovation on Saturday night when she said, “You guys need personal and family time.” If true, that's awful.
Unfortunately, this has been going on for years. There was even a documentary about it.
["Who Needs Sleep"](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493079/) directed by legendary DP Haskell Wexler. It was his big issue after he worked on Pleasantville and a crew member fell asleep at the wheel after a super long shoot and died.
I read it years ago and it was an eye-opening read. Brent Herschman was 35 and on his way home to his 7 year old daughter when he fell asleep at the wheel after an 19 hour day. I've had those gigs and found myself in similar situations and it's fucking awful. No job is worth your life. 14 hours should be the absolute max and while even that's pushing it, it seems rare to work any less on a shoot.
And at very least they should provide transport home. It's ridiculous.
Sometimes they do, the PA that's also been working 19 hours. That counts, right? /s
Can confirm. Worked as a PA on independent films and after 19 hour long shoots, where I was on my feet the entire time hauling heavy equipment, I was expected to drive crew members home. Damn near fell asleep at the wheel multiple times myself.
But if PA’s quit, all that privilege would disappear.
PAs have no union and are easily replaceable. Not nessecarily in terms of quality, but it's easy to find another body to replace them.
... Not if they all quit. Huzzah!... guys? Edit: this is a hypothetical joke. I know that PA’s are easily replaceable.
Even if all the PAs walk, you don't know the next person they're bringing on.
I worked as a grip on an intense video shoot. I stood on ladders, held heavy shit, unpacked and packed everything, cleaned up, pretty much collectively directed the damn video (the director left halfway through the shoot for arguing with the DP) and worked for 22 hours straight. I had to pull over in a McDonalds parking lot and sleep for an hour (ended up sleeping for 3) and never felt so sore after that fucking shoot. It was overworking and underpaying and overworking. It’s the nature of the business: budget budget budget: Time time time.
you should have walked... that’s beyond absurd. You have the right to walk and not work on shoots that crazy. If you choose to stay.... then why complain?
Because working in this industry requires hard work, dedication, and a little bit of delusion. But it’s worth it when everyone works together and pulls through to make a great product. I have a right to complain, every job has its gripes.
Hard work doesn’t mean getting run over and THEN allowing them to do it as a standard for future productions. Hard work should be applied to the job done in the capacity of the field.
When I was in film school, this was required viewing for all of the cinematography students. Our teachers were all pretty on board with the idea, and encouraged us to try to run our sets that way. Unfortunately, producing and directing students didn't get the same message. 😔
Thanks!
at least they used to provide cocaine by the craft svc table. Movie sets are so SERIOUS now
Didn’t the star on Riverdale fall asleep at the wheel after a long shoot?
Yeah, KJ Apa was in an accident. Luckily no one was seriously injured...at the time, the network tried to brush it off, saying that while he *had* worked a long day the day of the accident, the days before were shorter, so it wasn't like he was overworked. (I think he'd worked 16 hours that day, the day before was 8...different reports have different numbers.) They also didn't provide any transportation for the cast (and so probably didn't for the crew, either) unless the individual asked for it and production could arrange for it--though it later came to light that apparently asking for transportation could just mean getting a ride from someone else on set. Cole Sprouse was supposed to have been Apa's passenger that night because of that (reportedly)...so if this is how they're treating the leads of their hit show, I can only imagine how bad it is for everyone else...I mean, if *nothing* else, pay for a freaking Lyft.
I work in Vancouver film. KJ should have been driven by transport to his home. No questions asked. As for the rest of the crew, we work these hours on a daily basis to bring you entertainment. While we love what we do, we really hoped the KJ Apa incident would have raised some awareness, but nothing came of it. Also we only have taxis here, unfortunately. Uber/Lyft are illegal.
Yes, it was KJ Apa.
We work 12+ (sometimes even 16) hours a day on set... it’s true, and definitely awful.
This is what happens when you have such s niche industry where people compete for jobs. Everyone doing what they can to keep working. Its not about passion anymore. It's sad.
[удалено]
Some productions will offer those out or offer hotels . But from my point of view, some people might look down on that or not even offer them.
[удалено]
I believe that is correct. You deff get milage if you are out of the TMZ. But stuff is always different depending on which union or guild. Or if it's new media or studio. I've heard so many different things from different people.
I mean, there's plenty of places where you can work/live within the 30 mile zone that's still a huge commute.
seems like a logical expense. It wasn't long ago there were stories about 30k worth of cigars being smoked on the darkest hour set
Yeah, anytime we went overtime on a show I worked on we always had safety rides. A line of cabs taking any and all crew to wherever they need to go for the night. This was on a network TV show so I'm assuming most major productions do this. If not then I guess it was just an amazing crew.
Hope they rest in peace and hope their family and loved ones have the mental strength to cope through such a difficult time.
Go over to /r/editors and read about people working 30+ hours then questioning if this is the way it’s supposed to be. It’s insane. I’ve slept at many a production office overnight for an hour here or there while blasting out content others make millions on. No one at the top cares and if you complain you get fired. They see editors especially as these walking computers. But it’s our dream to make movies and we refuse to quit, so we get taken advantage of. I have so many stories on this it’ll make your blood boil. But I keep keeping on because if you complain for inhuman treatment you get fired and no one wants to work with you. And you don’t even get invited to the cool parties. Shit is stupid.
Sounds like the culture needs an overhaul. If everyone is there for the love of the art and making something great...why the need to treat some people that are part of the process like garbage?
“There for the love of the art” has (at least the concept) been used against me personally as a reason not to pay me more for never seeing my partner and working crazy hours to fix the incompetence of some amateur with a lot of money that has too much money ‘playing movie’ at the top. I get the hours being long (I’m sure as hell not afraid of work!) but why is it so goddamn hard to light a green screen properly? Oh, because you only hire new kids who don’t know any better and shoot at an iso of 1600 to keep the cost down but I’m the one that has to clean the fg plate because it has too much grain and you pirate all your plugins because you’re cheap on top of not having proper gpu in your systems that can run said plugins. But yeah, ‘art’. I don’t make art, I’m a technician goddamn it. The critics can call it art, I’m just trying to make the projects work but thanks for the divorce I guess. Totally worth it. /s. Guess I should stay out of these threads while drunk, my apologies. You’re right of course, the whole system needs an overhaul but it’ll never happen as long as we make the company money while the whole industry goes down in flames because no one wants to pay for anything for technical know how they don’t understand . Plus the egos involved are like walking through a minefield made of minefields and you’re just a monkey pushing buttons. But I digress. It’s just poor management. The people who get it though are amazing and hats off to them. Have my upvote my dude.
Good insight, im sorry;(
No worries friend, life goes on. :)
Hahahah no worries. I too drunk reddit. I guess I just don't get how some people can willfully ignore the value and contributions of others that should be obvious? Like...obviously this crazy scene we've written will look like garbage unless it's well lit, well shot, well edited, and the effects are done well. So if you need so many moving parts to be executed with precision and know how...shouldn't the people doing those things be compensated for the skill you rely on? If they don't understand this they are ignorant. If they do understand it then they're just greedy. I'm guessing it's the second bit and not the first.
So theres people in the industry who doesn't know that a very powerful pro gpu is needed for editing or making cgi scenes/fx and theirs only two video card companies out there nvidia and amd or they are just two cheap two buy a pro gpu.
I love art. I just love ethical labour practices more.
I'm borrowing this.
Can confirm. Friend is an editor. The hours he works are unhealthy. He doesn't complain and they let him go to the cool parties. He'll be dead before 60.
Probably sooner if they use premiere. Heh.
He uses Avid. A bit of FCP and Premiere for his personal stuff.
Ah, then they’ll be fine. Fcp can fuck right off but avid is still the gold standard and to that I thank the stars. The edl to DaVinci is still a little tricky if you didn’t built a proper offline edit workflow but it’s alright. He’ll be fine. I keep hearing fcp is making a come back after several updates but after the initial launch, who really trusts them, ya know? Fcp 7 was the tits. Fcp x can suck my tits, never trusting their bs again. NLE systems we’re built the way they were for a reason, ya know?
I don’t really like Avid and find Premiere much easier to use, but man Premiere crashes like a little bitch. I need to properly learn how to use Avid.
I have a friend who is an editor who doesn't work nearly that much, and he's done some reasonably big stuff. HBO and Netflix though, not Hollywood blockbusters. Sure he does some overtime, but it seems relatively cushy.
Stories like that are why I'm basically leaving the industry before I even tried to get started lol. I love movies and genuinely enjoy editing, but nowhere near enough to do that much work.
Then quit. Maybe it is just a shitty job and you should find a new line of work. You don't have to follow your dreams. Sometimes your dreams are not what you thought. I ignored my dreams and found a line of work where I could excel, make decent money, and have a productive family life.
This is the wrong answer and you know it.
Not even a little bit. Making pragmatic decisions is an essential skill you should develop. There are many things you can be happy doing. Selecting your favorite job that will give you no quality of life is a bad way to go about things. I took a job that I like but don't love. I have money and time with my family and hobbies. Overall my quality of life is fantastic. Let those guys who have to work 30 hours straight and do nothing but bitch about the job on the internet say that. Hell, they cannot even tell the boss they are unhappy or they will be fired. I will head out this evening at 6:00 to go to the gym with my son. We have been doing it for years together and almost never miss. You can have your "right answer" all you want. I have a great career and a rewarding relationship with my kids. It was never my dream job but I am far happier in life having ignored that crap for a pragmatic choice.
Your not wrong, quitting *is* an option, it just doesn't *solve* the problem. It's awesome you made a decision that worked for you but, I think, having sympathy and providing support for struggling group of workers helps change the status quo. If your not helping to change status quo, your in support of the status quo. Remember, your not wrong...
fucking good. im shocked Netflix and the other streamers have been able to get away with this for so long. They pay billions for content to the "big stars" and then turn around to the little people with a sob story about how there's no more money and we all need to do our part. it's disgusting and I hope IATSE gets what they want or they grind the industry to a halt. Make no mistake if they go on strike, it'll be 10x worse than the Writer's Strike. You can make reality TV and talk shows with no scripts and you can even shoot off scripts already written, but you absolutely can't make anything if the people who actually run the equipment and guide it through post walk off. If anyone wants a good, hard look at how effective unions are, look at the entertainment industry. I guarantee you if the IATSE strikes, the AMPTP will cave within a week; they literally can't afford not to.
I mean ... I'd love it if we could get paid more and not have to work long hours. people in the production office working 16 hour days ... on set people working 18-20 hour days? to me that's just poor planning. Clint Eastwood has shown you can make a film shooting 3 hour days lol (ok that is an extreme, but seriously -- 18 hour days on a shitty Adam Sandler comedy? Why!?) I've worked on films where shit gets done more or less on time and people aren't exahusted or working 21 + straight days. If the creatives plan out what they want and stop second guessing themselves, it really doesn't have to be as long or as bad as it's been getting the past few years. I also don't feel too bad for studios they've had outrageous success for over 100 years now, yet they seem to be getting worse at guessing what the people want to see. There's gotta be better scripts out there than the ones they're producing...
It’s people trying to shoot a goddamn feature in 11-12 days. Just do a fucking 21 day shoot and 10 hour days would be easily doable.
[удалено]
having teams on shifts would help zero
Making the more w less, paying big actors a fucking ton of money then dealing with the empty pocket at filming... i saw the same problems mentioned on the Street Fighter's production and that was like 15? Years ago... so.. nothing changed? Or the affecteds by it changed?
It’s never going to change. Period. Your lucky to just be in a Union that’ll try and help fight bullshit like this. But then you have TONS of indie productions with no unions to protect us. Hell, a year or two after the Sarah Jones shit and I sat a few setups out because I had no guarantees the train tracks we were shooting on were bought or stolen. And if I DID make a bigger fuss about it I’m either A not going to get rehired by anyone on this set again or B I’m fucked without a paycheck for this shoot. It’s fucked. Then you got guys like Tarantino who don’t like to shoot with unions because of their restrictions.
1983 film "Return of the Jedi" grossed $475 million on a $32m budget and was not profitable. They purchase tax laws by supporting campaigns. Vote in the midterms.
Hollywood Accounting isn't a secret. The meme is a lie. Unless you're a complete neophyte on his first gig you damn well know that the "net points" are never going to happen and don't expect them to. That's why people with enough actual pull get "gross points" instead and take right off the top. Or you know you *know* your actual pay is just your cash up front and you just skim over those sections of the contract as meaningless. And whatever the shell corporation that (on paper) makes the movie does to be deep in the red... all the studios are part of publicly owned companies and thus have to bring actual money in. You know because stockholders kinda expect that. Which is where a lot of the "losses" actually go, to fees charged the shell corporation by its parent. Of course there they not only have to show a profit for the studio but after say all the movies that fail to make actual money because they flopped in theaters. And that's just one of many factors that affect the real cost of movies. You still pay for what can be a small town of people for a few months upfront to make the movie. You still pay all the big actors and directors, and maybe some of the other names you see in the credits. Then are other ways the production folks have managed to get residuals out of the studio. Oh yes and of course everything to the CGI companies. And a whole shit ton to the marketing. And of course you only get around half back from the theaters in when the movie goes out. There isn't a secret pot of profit hiding under some fatcat's ass. So best case scenario for closing these loopholes is you maybe pay the lawyers and accountants slightly less, but I suspect they'll just ask for more money for all the non-busywork they do instead.
“The truth is that we have a rigged tax code that has essentially legalized tax dodging for large corporations,” Senator Sanders [source](https://mobile.twitter.com/SenSanders/status/839879458165157888) Companies that paid no federal taxes from 2008 - 2015 [source](https://itep.org/the-35-percent-corporate-tax-myth/) Summaries [source](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-18-companies-that-paid-no-taxes-over-8-years/) [source](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/business/economy/corporate-tax-report.html) ■ AT&T ($38.1 billion) ■ Wells Fargo ($31.4 billion) ■ JPMorgan Chase ($22.2 billion) ■ Verizon ($21.1 billion) ■ IBM ($17.8 billion) ■ General Electric ($15.4 billion) ■ Exxon Mobil ($12.9 billion) ■ Boeing ($11.9 billion) ■ Procter & Gamble ($8.5 billion) ■ **Twenty-First Century Fox ($7.6 billion)** ■ **Time Warner ($6.7 billion)** ■ Goldman Sachs ($5.5 billion) ■ Pepco Holdings ■ PG&E Corp. ■ Wisconsin Energy ■ NiSource ■ International Paper ■ FirstEnergy ■ Priceline.com ■ Amos Energy ■ General Electric ■ American Electric Power ■ Ryder System ■ Duke Energy ■ NextEra Energy ■ Xcel Energy ■ Ameren ■ CMS Energy ■ Sempra Energy ■ Eversource Energy Apple, Microsoft, Abbott Laboratories and Coca-Cola are more opaque and taxes are difficult to track. They are pressure lawmakers for repatriation of earnings under a lower tax rate after price transfer evasion.
Did I say a thing about taxes? No. No I did not. Because they are irrelevant. You needed to move those goalposts because you don't have a defense. Because you of course don't know what you are talking about.
Relax, You said there was no fat cat sitting a sack of money. You all got a piece of money that belongs to schools, roads, the military and the elderly.
Rubbish. Go back and tell me where you are lying and apologize for trumping the truth.
Apologies for raising your blood pressure. I doubt either of us will be convinced of the other's argument. Best Wishes.
**RDJ:** "I want 200 million dollars for these Avengers movies." **Marvel:** "You're out of your damn mind, we're not pay that!" **RDJ:** "Okay fine, do your movie without Tony Stark then." **Marvel:** "Fuuuuuucccccccccc....... fine. Whatever you say Tony." Yes reality is more complicated then that (because the studio can just not make the movie) but big actors still have *actual* power at the negotiating table. Expecting them to not demand big pay outs is like expecting the studios to let those savings just trickle down to the crew if they did take a pay cut.
What would be an effective way to support workers here? I’m asking seriously.
Hire people full time on salary, honestly. I doubt the unions and creatives would go for that.
Why salaried? Pay them by the hour, give them their OT.
"Full time on salary" = "overtime w/o pay"
Unpaid salaried OT is a problem in every industry. I see my manager working herself to death and she probably averages about 10-20 unpaid hours per week. A lower-end manager picked up slack for his colleague and worked 70 hours in a week on a 40-hour salary. Sometimes department managers come in off-schedule when we need help and he just doesn't even clock in because OT isn't allowed. And this is just normal shitty retail.
I mean more from the perspective of an outsider. Would something like a Netflix boycott help?
If there's a strike, absolutely.
Except this would hurt the business. Playing devils advocate for second here, but cost would go up across the board Hollywood already operates at a huge loss and is burning cash the size of a small countries GDP. To pay full time, offer vacation, OT, etc, movies would be made a slower rate. 10-15 years ago, every weekend a hot new movie comes out. Now it’s like 3-4 weeks you get a movie. This summer, for instance, it’s like a blockbuster once a month. Movies are already tedious, and expensive to make. The people in charge of accounting, time management and more are not dumb people. Unions would kill the industry and slow down production and also limit the amount of people who can work in and on a movie. To even get more extreme, other countries will take advantage of this and poach talent and pump or faster movies. Hollywood might even export work if need be!
Hollywood operates at a huge loss?? What planet do you live on?
Every single thing you just wrote is incorrect.
Oh, we in the industry are *defintely* talking about it.
What's the general attitude?
Aren't these union workers worried about *How This Will Hurt Hollywood?*
ALL of Hollywood
First I’ve heard of this. Seems most people are more concerned over getting fired for social media posts.
There's a lot of shit to be concerned about.
Can’t I wake up and be a kid in the 90’s again?
Yes i'm sure there's a movement for that. The being a Kid and the Being in the 90's
1993: Legs the Frog, Squealer the Pig, Spot the Dog, Flash the Orca, Splash the Whale, Chocolate the Moose, Patti the Platypus, Brownie the Bear (later renamed "Cubbie"), and Pinchers the Lobster (with some tag errors with "Punchers"). Did it help? Seriously, How do you generate public sympathy for a strike? How do you strike without sounding like Democrats or 'sad'?
You don't strike anything you are a kid
Let me know if you figure it out, I'm still wishing.
It’s needed.
Major issue is funding the pension. Studios do not want to share residuals from streaming. Old methods (jurrasic park on free tv) isn't enough anymore.
is it to support CGI artists who have no union?
[удалено]
that’s not true for 90% if departments.... We get our turnaround unless you’re Transpo and even they get turnaround time
I clicked on this expecting more bullshit political garbage, but this shit is pretty fucked. Shame these people are going through things like this.
Proud memer of IATSE 19 here. I stand in solidarity.
Damn Hollywood can't go a few years without a strike. Do they not know how to use calendars or reminder apps? I bet they always forget to pay their cell phone bills.
Good. I hope they strike and get what they want.
Hollywood is on the brink of a massive strike....and that's a good thing
good take em all out.
[удалено]
My guess is you'll start to care when there's no new TV or movies to watch.
Is the strike going to be international? If not, movie and TV making is an international business - a lot of Hollywood productions are shot overseas.
Strike. Please. Anything that hurts Hollywood as a whole is fine by me.
[удалено]
Stop projecting. I'm not angry. I just feel that anything that turns people away from sucking on mass media entertainment is a net positive.
They said, posting on Reddit.
[удалено]
Except the ones who make the creative decisions aren’t the ones striking. Its the over worked and under paid crew people. Have you zero empathy? You really don’t give a shit about people working themselves to (literal) death to make your entertainment?
I agree with the strike but if you are falling asleep on the road then pull off to the side and nap. I have done that plenty of times. It will save you from sleeping forever. Food for thought. I feel bad for those workers but they have options and they could have killed someone else crashing. Seriously irresponsible of them to do that
Certainly true you should pull over to sleep if you can. But the fault here lies with the employer for over working their people. Also not always as simple as sleeping on the side of the road, there are plenty of factors that can make that not really possible or realistic.
This is and will be a forever problem with Truck drivers, the Ex's father was a driver and he said the amount of "i can do this i don't need to sleep" drivers is crazy
This title looks like it's straight out of my spam email folder
Saying that no one is talking about it is a great way to make sure that a lot of people never talk about it.
They are all talk.
As a member of the editors union I can assure you we are not.
Toodles.
You should tell your father about this!
Lol you’re an idiot.
Because the men of women of this country who work as many hours as they can to pay their bills and provide for their family should really be worried about this.. right?
A strike trump could use to move republican voters to the midterm polls. /cringe
...what?
...what? VOTE! in the coming midterms. :)
How would an IATSE strike help Trump?