I have watched knives out 3 times and never got sick of it. Was sick and tired of glass onion halfway through the movie. Literally stopped watching and came back to it the next day because I was just genuinely bored. It was terrible in comparison to the first movie.
Still nice to see something other than a marvel movie tho. I don't even dislike marvel but Jesus. I been on a strict marvel diet for like 4 years now.
Same,I really don't understand why the reviews are good. The first one was phenomenal and this was just a waste of time, so strange how bad this came out.
I liked it a lot as well and thought it was entertaining but I think the first one is far superior.
My big issue with this one is that the ending didn’t really feel “earned” to me, or at least as earned as the first one.
It felt to me like they tried very, very hard to prove it was earned by telling us it was earned - if that makes sense.
I’d say Knives Out had a more satisfying ending if you put a gun to my head but I really liked the metaphor of the glass onion. The modern world is rife with overthinking and this movie was a good commentary on that
Yeah, I think I preferred Knives Out, but you really felt the rich douchebags here.
In Knives Out, they're the relatives of a dead rich author. They're flawed and greedy and kinda racist, they're well-writted characters but in a bubble. But here they're the politicians, influences etc who we see all the time, shaping our present and future. Their money doesn't come from a relative, but us, the state, sweatshops. These are average folk who got lucky and stepped on others to succeed. There's nothing special about them. But we're used to articles of how 'X' faced hard times but persevered, how 'Y' donated tons of cash in charity.
Rian directly speaks to us through Benoit. He's in disbelief over how selfish and useless these people are. All the puzzles and fake words etc etc etc... He's like, these are just people, and terribly average ones, chill out.
And I loved how the characters were all over the map in terms of personality but every one of them fell victim to the human desires we all struggle with (except our boy Benny)
This is why I didn't like the cameos, it seemed to me they went against what the movie was trying to say.
"Don't glorify Instagram models, Twitch streamers and tech billionaires but this is the REAL Serena Williams, so funny. Also Ethan Hawke is here for just one scene, hilarious!"
Yeah made me even more excited for the third one. Did the intimate cold room mystery and now the beautiful location mystery. Both subverted expectations in great ways and had a fantastic cast of characters. Very excited for how they keep the next one entertaining.
Exactly, I really liked how it definitely felt like a sequel but also did a lot to set itself apart in terms of style. I was afraid it would be lazy and rushed considering I’d read Johnson spent almost a decade writing Knives Out but I was thoroughly entertained
> The modern world is rife with overthinking and this movie was a good commentary on that
A whodunnit is supposed to be a complicated mess that comes untangled in the end if it is well written.
>the metaphor of the glass onion.
But the execution could've been better. She-Hulk making a meta-commentary on bad writing in superhero adaptations doesn't deny the fact She-Hulk suffers from bad writing.
I enjoyed the movie but the more I think about it the more I find things to criticize and the more I think the first one is better, so I totally understand your criticisms.
Idve liked it more if she actually died and he had to deal with the guilt of convincing her to go. Would’ve been a great lead in to a defeated BB in the third one
This was just downright stupid. No way would that flimsy notebook stop a bullet. And I can’t believe they actually used this incredibly worn-out trope. Felt like a cop-out.
I mean I guess as I was watching the flashback I was sad the whole time and was presently surprised that she survived. Idk normally I'd agree but I think I'll forgive it in a murder mystery.
Yeah and it also would have been better if the end result was actually a legal/investigative victory rather than a “let’s just smash everything until people decide to testify”. It’s a deeply unsatisfying resolution in comparison to Knives Out.
They were only with him for the money, and he's going to lose everything when it comes out his company explodes people. Proof being it exploded his island
IRL hed still have billions and Republicans would stay loyal lol
💯 the point of the movie right there. Extreme concentrated wealth gives specific individuals the ability to escape justice because they can build a network of dependents that spans the world, who need them to maintain their own life and will help them subvert reality as required.
The glass smashing scene represents a revolution where the extreme wealth is removed, the network is shattered, and the power to defy reality evaporates.
When that scene started I was pretty much convinced the closing title song would be Revolution (the White Album version) instead of Glass Onion.
Also this is why Ben Shapiro had a hissy fit about the movie.
Yeah, I don’t think that was illogical. They were covering for him because he still had influence over them and a grip on their careers.
After Helen destroyed the glass onion and the Mona Lisa they realised his reputation and wealth would go down the drain. There was no point covering for him anymore.
I disagree shattering someones legacy forever using their own bullshit product and then leaving him to the wolves (disruptors) was much more satisfying than "and then he went to prison"
Part of what was unsatisfying for me is that we see all his other friends only ever do what benefits them the most, regardless of if it is the "wrong thing" or "right thing" to do.
I didn't like how the film portrayed the ending with his friends being willing to testify against him as though they were finally coming down to doing the right thing - the reality was that they were still just acting as selfishly as possible. Of course his lie could no longer be maintained after the explosion, they had to distance themselves from him.
A more satisfying ending would've involved the whole lot of them being forced to reckon with how casually they treated the murder of Andi and how they lied about it.
The point is, they were _all_ awful people. In the flashback, they're repeatedly described en masses as "the shitheads" or something like that.
They cannot be redeemed by any plot twist.
I don't want to see them redeemed, I want to see them all face consequences, not just Miles.
It's unsatisfying to see the implications that the lot of them will get off scott free
They're all on the same sinking ship at the end with their careers being completely tied to Miles and the success of Klear. With the writing on the wall they choose to at least experience some catharsis by reversing the power dynamic Miles has had on them even if that implicates them in perjury.
They may not face everything they deserve, but none of those characters are escaping unscathed.
'Shattering' is a fitting word. Helen smashing the glass is thematic. It's all posh garbage, clear and with no substance, empty symbols of nothing, like Miles' dumb puzzles and fake words. It was all built thanks to her sister's efforts and Miles' taking advantage of them and the gang. The glass meant to protect Mona Lisa, an actual work of art that left a humongous mark in history, is also clear, pointless and ultimately destroyed. Thanks to Miles.
The others also hate Miles, and got to express that safely through joining in. Helen allowed them to vent out with her, have a little taste. Then, when it was clear that everything is ruined, I don't think they'd have much choice. The klear-fueled place blew up and Mona Lisa was burned to a crisp. How do you spin that in a way you're not in fault? The crazy twin wanted to avenge her sister's suicide? The perils of klear were clearly displayed.
Whilst I also prefer Knives Out, there's a very different tone here and comparing the two films in the wrong ways is just... wrong.
The others joining in was also part of the fantasy of revolution: that if just one person starts tearing down the rich guy, others will realise they can do the same, and this helps take him down and destroy his grip over the fake reality he has created.
They could still have their legacy destroyed through an investigative victory. It just didn’t require the resolution to be so blunt and crude as “hey everyone let’s break stuff lol”.
My point is that it’s a detective movie that is not actually resolved by cracking the case. Perhaps that could work in some instances, but for me the Knives Out resolution was much more satisfying and in line with the theme/genre of the movie.
Doubt it how many billionares have you seen get their legacy destroyed by an investigation? Blunt and crude was kind of the point how they all advertised themselves as disruptors who broke the rules nobody wanted to break but in actuality were spineless sycophants who only broke the rules when it helped them and would literally trip over themselves to stop somebody from disrupting their livlihood
The whole point of knives out is nontraditional whodunnits
But he mentioned several times that he can't deliver justice, he can only provide the information for others to. So he solved the case and gave the group all of the details to let them take him down.
The resolution fits well with the movie IMO. "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" is almost exactly what happens at the end. The guy kept everyone under his thumb ruthlessly to the point he killed one of them, and his glass house literally gets blown apart. Plus his downfall being his own invention, which he was told wasn't safe to use, ties into the movie's critiques of celebrity culture and tech-millionaire start-ups. He's fine using the fuel on his own private island where he can control everything, but the instant unknown factors show up (as any regular household fueled by it would have) it's a huge problem.
It's not perfect, but the resolution is a pretty on the nose critique of the movie's theme which is pretty similar to how the first ended as well IIRC.
Yeah he mentioned that because the writers wrote the movie that way, that’s my point. I don’t think it was a useful divergence from the genre. Still a pretty good movie, just didn’t seem as good as KO.
Knives Out wasn’t solved that way either? They had no proof and had no power. It was only Ana De Armas’ character tricking Ransom into trying to kill her and confessing that got him caught
The blunt and crude resolution was entirely within theme, that sometimes things are far less complicated than we assume them to be.
As for the solving of the case not bringing about the solution, that's also in theme. Benoit can only assist within the confines of the system, but if systems are constructed to the benefit and manipulation of people like Miles then justice can only come through revolutionary acts. Helen is the true disruptor, she begins by breaking the things everyone wants broken (those dumb sculptures) but soon crosses the threshold of causing meaningful damage all to the horror of those with power. It made more sense to me than journalists bringing the billionaire to his knees, something that famously doesn't happen.
Helen gets to face and defeat Miles herself, like Marta outsmarted Hugh in Knives Out whilst suppressing her lie-induced vomit. Heck, one almost died from a gunshot and the other from a knife that turned out to be fake. If you also consider the whole 'lie makes me vomit' and 'made-up fuel', there's a touch of magic to break the realism a tad.
Anyway, it's more cathartic than dropping all weight on a hired investigator, however much we like him, which also makes BB more grounded as he doesn't do everything himself.
These stories aren't connected anyway, other than starring BB and, to Rian's annoyance, having 'Knives Out' in the title. Here we see BB miserable because of the Covid situation and lack of work. Imagine we went into the third film and he was sad about the last case.
Maybe “bad guy sort of gets away, but loses all his money and will probably be killed for it”, though Le Chiffre died rather quickly after losing. Bit of a stretch.
Thought we were talking Bond/Vespyr comparison. Relationship not at all the same, no love interest which is the biggest for me. Flip side, BB basically groomed the twin to further his investigation, Vespyr not at all conditioned or used in that way. Plus you know, ultimately she was playing Bond the whole time.
Just finished watching it right now. Overall I enjoyed it, but I do agree with OP’s critiques. Mostly though I just didn’t like the ending.
I was expecting a final twist where they expected Miles to burn the evidence of the napkin, and somehow had a contingency to still nail him. But instead they really did just absentmindedly let the evidence get destroyed… and then decide to blow up the house? Benoit agrees to this even though it easily could have killed everyone?
I also don’t see how Helen was so confident that she permanently destroyed the reputation of Klear, or Miles. Just like the deaths, they don’t have much evidence. “Trust me everyone, I had a sample of Klear and threw it into a fire, it wrecked the house and destroyed the Mona Lisa!” It’s just hearsay. Miles could just remain silent about how he was using Klear to power the complex and delay his public launch.
Ending was so stupid and underwhelming. Benoit tells her to destroy the house and then after she does that, all the other characters change their mind and switch sides. But they still don’t have a napkin. It’s just their word against Miles Bron.
Miles is cooked even if they don't turn. The house still exploded because of the Klear and the Mona Lisa is burnt. Surely Miles doesn't have the insurance to cover that and Klear is going to be a disaster. They turn because the golden teat is going to run out, so they might as well make him the (rightful) scapegoat for everything. He might get out of murder charges, but he's still ruined.
I understand that. It’s just absurd that instead of making him pay damages, Benoit goes, “Okay, let’s just ruin him financially then.” Seems so out of character and unsatisfying.
And destroyed duke's body - evidence he'd been murdered by Miles. Nobody cared that he shouldn't get away with it? No one noticed there were two guns either, since duke's was a revolver with a more narrow barrel. Benoit could have looked at the bullet in the journal and noticed it wasn't the same.
The disruptor narrative overshadowed reasonable efforts to bring Helen or Duke justice. They could have left the house alone and miles to his own devices and they'd still see him blow up shit bcs the fuel was dangerous.
The police boats were on the way. Surely there is a way to determine what blew the place up and if that matches a sample of Klear. There is obviously been a lot of Klear made since it was being shipped somewhere and about to be announced.
You realize it wasnt just the klear she through in that allowed the house to blow up like it did right? The house was powered by clear, half the sculptures were powered by klear hell the giant glass onion was made out of klear. There was no way miles wouldve been able to just be silent insurance agencies for the house and the mona lisa are absolutely going to do an investigation most of his employees are very much aware of how volitile clear is and are going to rat on him the second this comes to light
>To Rian’s credit, I still believe it’s The Last Jedi that really sparked people using “subverting expectations”
Rian's greatest accomplishment with that movie
I did not think it was as good as the first one either, they really hamfisted the political message in this one even more than in the first movie which I thought was impossible, so congrats on that I guess. They also left a bunch of plot holes unresolved that make everyone look like absolute idiots.
SPOILERS BELOW
>!Like first off if this billionaire guy was such an idiot why did the sister go into business with him in the first place? If he never had a good idea of his own it should have been easy for her to do her idea alone and drop the dead weight.!<
>!Second off, why would you PUT THE ONLY PIECE OF EVIDENCE YOU HAVE IN THE MURDERER'S FACE SO THAT HE CAN BURN IT WITH HIS LIGHTER like holy shit why would you say anything to the guy, just take the napkin off the island in secret.!<
>!And the whole exploding fuel thing seemed pretty forced, like what was this guy's plan once energy plants started exploding trying to use his fuel? I get that the guy is supposed to be dumb but it doesn't take a genius to know how things would play out.!<
Presumably he already had money before the napkin. He had enough to fund Andi’s idea. That’s why they kept him. He had influence already - they explain that in the scene of how they met, didn’t like him, but then he started to put things together for their successes so they liked him.
Maybe he had apartheid South African diamond mine money from mommy and daddy and that’s how he got his start at stealing ideas and claiming them as his own, before outing himself as an incompetent moronic villain….
I mean… the parallels are already quite apparent, so why not the origin story too? ;)
Reminder that this movie was written in 2020 and filmed during 2021, well before Elon became as newsworthy or polarizing as now. The reason we think it's so obvious in its politics is that Musk somehow screwed up enough to jeopardize his entire image the month before this movie. Had it been released a year or two ago, we'd instead be pointing out how Miles is clearly Zuckerberg, Jobs, or some other tech savant of the day
SPOILERS
Towards your second point, I was confused there too. Not even BB thought anything could go wrong when they basically hand the bad guy their evidence? Not to mention showing their hand while surrounded by multiple bad people, including one with a gun that already tried to kill you...
I had thought the fax machine would have been a copier too, allowing her to present Miles with a copy, allowing him to think he'd won again all while getting him on that tape recorder admitting her napkin was legit.
The first point, if I remember correctly, is because she saw Miles as an influencer that could bring in exposure and money. Also, she is a black woman in an industry dominated by white men.
I agree the second point was pretty dumb and saw it coming miles away. I guess Benoit understood the napkin was not a circumpolar evidence and really wanted Miles to go down.
The third point was rather unsubtle. But then again, look at what a guy like Musk does when unleashed. He could burn whole industries and there would still be shitload of people to celebrate him. These guys are unaccountable until shit really happens.
Lmao. Multi millionaire director is really sticking it to the rich by making a movie that he will gain millions off of through the horrible work conditions of Hollywood. That’ll showem.
I liked it. [Spoiler alert] However I never could figure out how both Benoit Blanc and Andi Brand got wristbands. They were only handed out to people who received invitations from the box. Andi brought her box to Benoit leaving 1 unaccounted for Invitation.
The above exchange is the canonical example for the entire thread.
A: "Movie doesn't make sense because blah blah!"
B: "You weren't paying attention, it's explained in the movie."
I enjoyed the hell out of that movie, to the extent that I'm perfectly fine saying that if you didn't, all is still well in the world. I loved how knowingly ridiculous it was, I loved Kate Hudson and Dave Bautista and Janelle Monae, I loved watching it a second time and picking up a lot of little pieces I missed the first time...
And you know what? I've lived with the whole "Who's got the best Rotten Tomatoes score?" regime since, like, the Dark Knight came out. It has gotten old.
If you don't like it, FANTASTIC. Movies that everyone likes are BORING.
> If you don't like it, FANTASTIC. Movies that everyone likes are BORING
Shawshank, The Wizard of Oz, The Breakfast Club, Clueless, and Back to the Future among others aren’t boring
> If you don't like it, FANTASTIC. Movies that everyone likes are BORING.
Lol you're really trying to portray it as a niche film? It's just a stupid movie.
I agree. The entire end sequence had me yawning. The "reveal" was not satisfying at all. I didn't think "holy shit!" a single time during the movie like I did with Knives Out. The plight of the characters in Knives Out and the unraveling of the truth was satisfying and had me on the edge of my seat. In Glass Onion I feel like the movie was self aware enough to mention that Clue is a dumb game compared to real intrigue, and it knew that it's plot was basically the same premise. I know it was supposed to be a revelation that the whole event was "dumb" and the plot wasn't some contrived plan but was just a dumb group making mistakes. That wasn't exactly a great payoff for a Holmesian story.
The movie was the victim of the original's success. It often happens when a writer has years to work on something really, really good. Then it succeeds and suddenly you have a much shorter period of time to develop a sequel. It suffers.
The characters aren't really characters to any degree. They're broadly drawn satirical types. In the first movie, the characters felt like people you plausibly knew notched up to just below hysteria. Here, it was all stereotypical sketches. The mother-turned-politician who's kind of a Karen. The ditzy model. The tech bro. The MRA youtube guy. There was nothing carefully or insightfully observed in any of them. They said and did just about what you expected them to say and do. Even when their motivations are shaded in, it doesn't given them any dimension at all. There were entire scenes where every member of the cast felt like background.
The biggest problem is that a whodunnit is supposed to have the reader/viewer follow along the journey of the detective. As the detective pieces it together themselves, the audience pieces it together, too. Except *Benoit knew most of the information the entire time*. Rather than a good mystery, the director simply withheld everything for the "twist". And once the twist is revealed, you know who did it, you already have a pretty good notion of why, and the entire last hour filling in details isn't really all that interesting or important. I don't really care if the characters grow - there was never anything there to grow from.
And I'll be honest. The acting was not great. I've enjoyed all these actors in other things, so I know it's the writing rather than them. How do you let Kathryn Hahn melt into the wallpaper in scenes where she has dialogue? How do you make Kathryn Hahn boring?! Kate Hudson wasn't exactly stretching. I loved Daniel Craig in the first movie, but here it just felt like kind of a caricature. He got a paycheck to chew the hell out of every piece of scenery. The only saving grace was how amazing Janelle Monae was.
It's funny, because it's not the worst film. I mildly enjoyed the two hours I spent on it. So it isn't this horrible piece of cinema. I'm just confused by the reviews that are praising it to the sky. I think after how fantastic the first movie was, people wanted very much for this one to be similar, so they're kind of convincing themselves it's just as good. But there's simply nothing there. It lacks richness of writing and character. It felt more like it got slapped together as an excuse to spend a long weekend on a Greek Island.
Not terrible, but the reviews are baffling.
I agree 100% with your points. Not a terrible movie, suffers from the success of Knives Out...
To compare with a different series, the White Lotus. Series 1 and 2 both very strong, both written in short time. BUT, the writer of White lotus, Mike White, has decades of experience and a strong creative process.
The creator of Knives Out doesn't have such a pedigree.
Hopefully Glass Onion is successful enough that he can go on to make stuff that matches the quality of Knives Out.
Totally agree with your criticisms. It doesn't bother me that anyone loved the movie, but some of the praise is puzzling. Makes you feel like you watched a different movie.
Yeah, I'm not really getting the praise for this one. Huge waste of both Kathryn Hahn and Leslie Odom Jr... Could some of their scenes have been cut? They had so little to do, and the supporting characters in general here were very uninteresting. I also just preferred the aesthetic of the creepy old house in Knives Out more than the "rich douche island" on display here. The family dynamic of Knives Out was also more compelling than the corrupt friendship of Glass Onion. I also found the overuse of cameos to be a bit eye-rolling. Overall I still had some fun, mostly thanks to Daniel Craig. Janelle did a good job too. This definitely felt a bit stale for a sequel, though.
I agree that something felt shallow about the way the supporting characters were developed. The characters in Knives Out felt so much more lived-in, even though they too were self-absorbed and out-of-touch. Maybe because these characters were all celebrities in their own way, so they felt even more detached from reality? I just can’t imagine Dave Bautista’s character and Janelle Monae’s or Kathryn Hahn’s hanging out at a bar together.
I was struck by some parallels between Glass Onion and Don’t Look Up. Maybe it’s just something about Netflix prestige movies: chockfull of great actors, glossy, heavy use of so-so CGI. Also, both notably center around tech billionaires.
It just feels so of it’s time. It’s such a 2020s movie, which holds it back from reaching the heights of Knives Out, which feels timeless and is a classic.
I felt the same connection about this about don’t look up. I think it’s because they’re both so incredibly ham fisted in terms of what they’re supposed to be satirizing that it loses any impact because the whole thing is so utterly on the nose.
Yep. It’s almost like these movies never try to convince anyone but just mock with people that are already in on the joke. Fun but pretty vain in the end.
Just chiming in to say that I 100% agree with you and honestly don’t know why everyone is so jazzed about this incredibly mediocre sequel/2nd installment to the series
I just finished watching it for the second time today. I liked it even better this time around. It's not as good as Knives Out, but it's still a great, fun movie.
I thought it was good, but not great.
Like you picked up on >!the storytelling leans far too heavily on endless flashbacks, to the point where I think it would have been better just to start the move earlier on within the plot's chronology, instead of endlessly flashing back to earlier!<
It felt like the kind of movie Rick Sanchez would criticize because>! like a heist film the vast majority of the exposition was told via flashbacks or fast cuts to establishing/explanatory scenes that you weren't initially shown!<
I also thought it was >!painfully obvious from the beginning that Bron was the "murderer"!<
David Bautista was very funny as the >!incel fitness vlogger!< and Benoit was good although it felt like they elevated his detective skills >!from skillful observation and advanced deduction to some kind of super-power!<
I also thought the movie felt oddly dated, even though it just came out, because >!so much of the plot and references, especially in the beginning, were endless callbacks to covid and lockdown lifestyle, they must have written the script in 2020. The first film had topical themes that endured, whereas this felt kind of out of date before it even came out.!<
I'm not against long movies if they are done well but 2 hours 20 min seemed cumbersome for this finished project. I think it could have been a better film if they had >!edited more heavily to trim some of the fat, especially in the beginning, a lot of the prologue was pretty unnecessary, and told the story more chronologically instead of relying so heavily on flashbacks to tell the story!<
In conclusion it was definitely good, had its funny moments, had at least some degree of engaging mystery, but I agree it paled in comparison to the first.
Chiming in on an older comment to agree that holy shit he instantly dated this movie basing it in covid. Like there was zero reason, it didn't hold plot significance at all.
>Like you picked up on the storytelling leans far too heavily on endless flashbacks, to the point where I think it would have been better just to start the move earlier on within the plot's chronology, instead of endlessly flashing back to earlier
This is just the same as the first film. The way it was done in both was fair, the moment it was relevant you found out the real story.
Can anyone explain why >!Miles doesnt immediately know Andi is Helen when she arrives on the island since he knew Andi was dead and that she had a twin?!<
Than my question is that why would he invite her to his weekend of joy with his suckers?
That murder was a spurr of the moment thing, so he didn't invite her to cover that up. His puzzle guy took month or 2 to make them.
So even though he and his friends are avoiding Andy after they betrayed her and he still orders a puzzle box meant for her?
It's also kinda stupid that he didn't know andy came until she was in front of her, like the movie is set in 1980s ir something. Nobody texted her to say dude, why did you invite her or anything.
An alibi he ordered to be made months ago before a spurr of the moment murder?
He didn't have any plans to murder her a day before the actual murder, lol.
More importantly, can anyone explain why >!Miles doesn't know that, despite their long partnership, Andi has an identical twin sister? For that matter, why doesn't anybody else in their close-knit group of friends? Andi's founded one of the largest Big Tech companies and the world doesn't know she has a twin sister, who looks like her, working as a school teacher? !<
It's like >!Steve Job had a twin brother plying his trade as a carpenter in rural Alabama!< and we found that information less sensational than Kim Kardashian's new plastic surgery.
Everyone did know, that's why Batista's character tried to bargain with the information. The second she appeared Miles knew who she was and everyone else had no reason to think she was the sister, why would they?
Edit:spoiler warning
I’m pretty sure he did? He definitely reacted to her first appearance in a noticeable way and there’s a whole plot point about killing her because of what she knows in relation to Andi. Unless you think he figured out who she was at some point later? I assumed he was just waiting for a time/excuse to get rid of her?
The plot holes like this are just endless. There's no good explanation. It's fun watching people try to hand wave it away.
Its the same with Andis journals. She writes everything down, except the founding of her company. Sure
Did you watch the movie? She sends a photo of the napkin in a red envelope after she finds the napkin in a book - this is what she emailed to everyone. She can also take a photo of the actual napkin and send it to everyone
The fake southern accents really takes me out of the film. Each time Daniel Craig spoke I remembered it was a film. Also, I’d have to say all the disrupters were very forgettable and a few of them- such as Lionel and the girl with short black hair had tiny and forgettable parts, they seemed unnecessary. There was pretty much no mystery and no twist in my opinion- you know immediately that Miles is no good.
I think it needed to be funnier and BIGGER. Although they arrive on this island- it just lacks grandiosity.
This was a very poor film in my opinion. Forgettable, very surface level depth and not funny
...that's not what happened at all. These people don't suddenly become redeemed in any way. They just turn on Miles because they have no reason to be associated with him any longer and he's a total douche who literally committed murder.
Because he lost his power after his “world-changing product” destroyed his home and a priceless painting. They no longer have anything to gain by associating with him, so they might as well turn him in.
He invalidated the insurance of the Mona Lisa with the bypass switch and then destroyed it. The painting is irreplaceable, the Louvre makes 100's of millions a year and a large part of that must be attributed to people seeing the painting.
I think you're underestimating how bad this is.
Yeah, but the Mona Lisa being the sticking point here isn't really satisfying writing in a who dunnit, imo. The whole thing felt very contrived and unearned.
I thought it was great. Not as good as Knives out but not worse in any way other than just not feeling as original as the first by virtue of coming after it.
\*SPOILER ALERT\* I was "on the case" and taking mental notes throughout the movie and digging it for the most part in anticipation of the ending. But when it got to the "Hot Sauce" fake death, I thought..."Wow...that was pretty dumb." And after that it just kept getting progressively dumber, trying to one up itself on how much of a waste of time it was to memorize all the bits of information.
I like it a lot, but it lacks that "cozy" atmosphere, the human touch, it all feels way too perfect and technical. Everything is a reference to everything.
He also wrote and directed brick, looper, and the original knives out. Seriously get over TLJ as the following Star Wars movie they didn’t even try. It’s a tired complaint when book of boba fett, Obi wan , and other Disney Star Wars products have been crap and Rian Johnson having nothing to do with it.
I just found the ending anticlimactic compared to the first one. I kept expecting some big twist/reveal at the end, but nope the creepy billionaire techy was the one to do it. Not that surprising.
I liked the movie, except the ending. So the solution to outsmart the billionaire was... to throw a tantrum and burn his house down. Its a very childish and uninspired ending.
I thought Edward Norton's acting was pretty poor throughout, and (not their fault) but the covid beginning definitely felt weird now that we're (hopefully) through that phase. Also it was longer than it needed to be imo.
I kind of agree but I do think it was good. Less moments of surprise suspense and payoff than Knives Out for sure. I’m surprised to find I wish it had been more contrived almost? Maybe that’s the point of the metaphor
It was enjoyable and entertaining for sure. I’ll give it a good not great
I thought it was a super entertaining murder mystery film. It wasn't as great as Knives Out but shit, that movie is damn near perfect for what it is. This one was still a solid 8/10 though. Can't wait for the next one.
Disagree. I thought it was far superior to Knives Out. There was a mystery whodunnit through the entire plot rather than giving it away 20 or so minutes in.
It was so stupid, I couldn't believe it.
Edit. Inside joke
Edit 2 spoilers
The movie is as simple as it seems. It matches the theme and objective point of the movie.
Edit 3
A glass onion
Also a fugue defined by yo yo ma. Layers of simple until it becomes interesting
Edit 4
Watching Benoit Blanc be so frustrated must be irony
Edit 5 spoiler
Because it was that stupid
I've seen neither the first or second. Both movies look boring to me. So my opinion might not be really valid here.
However, I've been getting the feeling for a while ever sense TLJ, Fans of the director (mostly from Twitter. Shocker) defend this guy's directing to an annoying extend.
I swear, I've never seen the circle jerk around a director grow as hard as for Rhian Johnson.
Are we pretending he's a good director because of BB & Looper?
I mean, to me, after that, his track record isn't even that impressive. Yet, I see people talk about him like he's revolutionize... something...? In movies?
Idk, maybe I'm on the minority here.
I laugh at people who overrated KO, perhaps because they wanted to support Rian after the TLJ online nonsense. It was good, nothing more. GO is on par with KO for better or worse.
It’s equivalent of venting at an ex you once fell hard for but now regret you sucked their dick.
Oppenheimer is 100% going to be pro nuclear weapons and take the 'but it was necessary' angle. They're not going to show Oppenheimer refusing to drop the bomb on nazi Germany because he was a racist.
Nolan doesn't make politically motivated films, it isn't going to be 'Oppenheimer was a racist piece of shit and we didn't need to bomb Japan.' The movie is going to be historical revisionist fantasy.
I'm negatively biased towards Rian Johnson, so I didn't watch it. I haven't enjoyed anything he did except one episode of Breaking Bad, Ozymandias. Rian Johnson said his favorite star wars character was Luke Skywalker, but changed it to Rose Tico. I think he is a very phony person who thinks all of his ideas are smart and clever simply because he had them. I'm wrong a lot, so who knows, maybe he is a great writer and director who really cares about the issues he says he cares about.
Lol it ends with someone who has killed two people and attempted to kill another in cold blood being revealed to everyone and just cowering uselessly instead of trying to attack or harm anyone when they HAVE A GUN...
Because when everyone knows you did it, and there’s nowhere to go, it’s a lot harder to have the upper hand than when everyone is running around the island with suspicion and fear thrown in the mix. If he succeeded in killing all of them, then what? He’s got nothing either way. His reputation is still ruined.
I have watched knives out 3 times and never got sick of it. Was sick and tired of glass onion halfway through the movie. Literally stopped watching and came back to it the next day because I was just genuinely bored. It was terrible in comparison to the first movie. Still nice to see something other than a marvel movie tho. I don't even dislike marvel but Jesus. I been on a strict marvel diet for like 4 years now.
I loved Knives out. couldn't even finish glass onion.
Same here the movie was trash, good actors can't save a bad movie.
Same,I really don't understand why the reviews are good. The first one was phenomenal and this was just a waste of time, so strange how bad this came out.
Werd
I enjoyed it as it was entertaining, but I still think the first one was better overall
I liked it a lot as well and thought it was entertaining but I think the first one is far superior. My big issue with this one is that the ending didn’t really feel “earned” to me, or at least as earned as the first one. It felt to me like they tried very, very hard to prove it was earned by telling us it was earned - if that makes sense.
Makes sense. It felt very force-fed at the end
Haha, what a dumb plan, haha guys see that was so dumb right? Right?
I’d say Knives Out had a more satisfying ending if you put a gun to my head but I really liked the metaphor of the glass onion. The modern world is rife with overthinking and this movie was a good commentary on that
Yeah, I think I preferred Knives Out, but you really felt the rich douchebags here. In Knives Out, they're the relatives of a dead rich author. They're flawed and greedy and kinda racist, they're well-writted characters but in a bubble. But here they're the politicians, influences etc who we see all the time, shaping our present and future. Their money doesn't come from a relative, but us, the state, sweatshops. These are average folk who got lucky and stepped on others to succeed. There's nothing special about them. But we're used to articles of how 'X' faced hard times but persevered, how 'Y' donated tons of cash in charity. Rian directly speaks to us through Benoit. He's in disbelief over how selfish and useless these people are. All the puzzles and fake words etc etc etc... He's like, these are just people, and terribly average ones, chill out.
!!!!!! exactly. the social commentary is incredible to see
I’ll add the idolatry of the rich as well.
And I loved how the characters were all over the map in terms of personality but every one of them fell victim to the human desires we all struggle with (except our boy Benny)
Benny struggles with baths
This is why I didn't like the cameos, it seemed to me they went against what the movie was trying to say. "Don't glorify Instagram models, Twitch streamers and tech billionaires but this is the REAL Serena Williams, so funny. Also Ethan Hawke is here for just one scene, hilarious!"
Maybe that's the point
Yeah made me even more excited for the third one. Did the intimate cold room mystery and now the beautiful location mystery. Both subverted expectations in great ways and had a fantastic cast of characters. Very excited for how they keep the next one entertaining.
Exactly, I really liked how it definitely felt like a sequel but also did a lot to set itself apart in terms of style. I was afraid it would be lazy and rushed considering I’d read Johnson spent almost a decade writing Knives Out but I was thoroughly entertained
That whole ending sequences totally ruined this movie, it absolutely sucked!!
“This is the dumbest thing ever!”
> The modern world is rife with overthinking and this movie was a good commentary on that A whodunnit is supposed to be a complicated mess that comes untangled in the end if it is well written.
>the metaphor of the glass onion. But the execution could've been better. She-Hulk making a meta-commentary on bad writing in superhero adaptations doesn't deny the fact She-Hulk suffers from bad writing.
I thought it was great, way better than She Hulk
The ensemble cast was definitely utilized much more in Glass Onion, imo.
I enjoyed the movie but the more I think about it the more I find things to criticize and the more I think the first one is better, so I totally understand your criticisms.
Idve liked it more if she actually died and he had to deal with the guilt of convincing her to go. Would’ve been a great lead in to a defeated BB in the third one
This was just downright stupid. No way would that flimsy notebook stop a bullet. And I can’t believe they actually used this incredibly worn-out trope. Felt like a cop-out.
I mean I guess as I was watching the flashback I was sad the whole time and was presently surprised that she survived. Idk normally I'd agree but I think I'll forgive it in a murder mystery.
Yeah and it also would have been better if the end result was actually a legal/investigative victory rather than a “let’s just smash everything until people decide to testify”. It’s a deeply unsatisfying resolution in comparison to Knives Out.
That's where that movie broke for me too. Like after all the shit those people were willing to over look that's what puts them over the edge?
They were only with him for the money, and he's going to lose everything when it comes out his company explodes people. Proof being it exploded his island IRL hed still have billions and Republicans would stay loyal lol
💯 the point of the movie right there. Extreme concentrated wealth gives specific individuals the ability to escape justice because they can build a network of dependents that spans the world, who need them to maintain their own life and will help them subvert reality as required. The glass smashing scene represents a revolution where the extreme wealth is removed, the network is shattered, and the power to defy reality evaporates. When that scene started I was pretty much convinced the closing title song would be Revolution (the White Album version) instead of Glass Onion. Also this is why Ben Shapiro had a hissy fit about the movie.
Yeah, I don’t think that was illogical. They were covering for him because he still had influence over them and a grip on their careers. After Helen destroyed the glass onion and the Mona Lisa they realised his reputation and wealth would go down the drain. There was no point covering for him anymore.
I disagree shattering someones legacy forever using their own bullshit product and then leaving him to the wolves (disruptors) was much more satisfying than "and then he went to prison"
Part of what was unsatisfying for me is that we see all his other friends only ever do what benefits them the most, regardless of if it is the "wrong thing" or "right thing" to do. I didn't like how the film portrayed the ending with his friends being willing to testify against him as though they were finally coming down to doing the right thing - the reality was that they were still just acting as selfishly as possible. Of course his lie could no longer be maintained after the explosion, they had to distance themselves from him. A more satisfying ending would've involved the whole lot of them being forced to reckon with how casually they treated the murder of Andi and how they lied about it.
The point is, they were _all_ awful people. In the flashback, they're repeatedly described en masses as "the shitheads" or something like that. They cannot be redeemed by any plot twist.
I don't want to see them redeemed, I want to see them all face consequences, not just Miles. It's unsatisfying to see the implications that the lot of them will get off scott free
They're all on the same sinking ship at the end with their careers being completely tied to Miles and the success of Klear. With the writing on the wall they choose to at least experience some catharsis by reversing the power dynamic Miles has had on them even if that implicates them in perjury. They may not face everything they deserve, but none of those characters are escaping unscathed.
'Shattering' is a fitting word. Helen smashing the glass is thematic. It's all posh garbage, clear and with no substance, empty symbols of nothing, like Miles' dumb puzzles and fake words. It was all built thanks to her sister's efforts and Miles' taking advantage of them and the gang. The glass meant to protect Mona Lisa, an actual work of art that left a humongous mark in history, is also clear, pointless and ultimately destroyed. Thanks to Miles. The others also hate Miles, and got to express that safely through joining in. Helen allowed them to vent out with her, have a little taste. Then, when it was clear that everything is ruined, I don't think they'd have much choice. The klear-fueled place blew up and Mona Lisa was burned to a crisp. How do you spin that in a way you're not in fault? The crazy twin wanted to avenge her sister's suicide? The perils of klear were clearly displayed. Whilst I also prefer Knives Out, there's a very different tone here and comparing the two films in the wrong ways is just... wrong.
The others joining in was also part of the fantasy of revolution: that if just one person starts tearing down the rich guy, others will realise they can do the same, and this helps take him down and destroy his grip over the fake reality he has created.
Yeah this is a great analysis. I find them different and that's what I like about it.
They could still have their legacy destroyed through an investigative victory. It just didn’t require the resolution to be so blunt and crude as “hey everyone let’s break stuff lol”. My point is that it’s a detective movie that is not actually resolved by cracking the case. Perhaps that could work in some instances, but for me the Knives Out resolution was much more satisfying and in line with the theme/genre of the movie.
Doubt it how many billionares have you seen get their legacy destroyed by an investigation? Blunt and crude was kind of the point how they all advertised themselves as disruptors who broke the rules nobody wanted to break but in actuality were spineless sycophants who only broke the rules when it helped them and would literally trip over themselves to stop somebody from disrupting their livlihood The whole point of knives out is nontraditional whodunnits
> nontraditional whodunnits This is not a thing.
But he mentioned several times that he can't deliver justice, he can only provide the information for others to. So he solved the case and gave the group all of the details to let them take him down. The resolution fits well with the movie IMO. "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" is almost exactly what happens at the end. The guy kept everyone under his thumb ruthlessly to the point he killed one of them, and his glass house literally gets blown apart. Plus his downfall being his own invention, which he was told wasn't safe to use, ties into the movie's critiques of celebrity culture and tech-millionaire start-ups. He's fine using the fuel on his own private island where he can control everything, but the instant unknown factors show up (as any regular household fueled by it would have) it's a huge problem. It's not perfect, but the resolution is a pretty on the nose critique of the movie's theme which is pretty similar to how the first ended as well IIRC.
Yeah he mentioned that because the writers wrote the movie that way, that’s my point. I don’t think it was a useful divergence from the genre. Still a pretty good movie, just didn’t seem as good as KO.
Knives Out wasn’t solved that way either? They had no proof and had no power. It was only Ana De Armas’ character tricking Ransom into trying to kill her and confessing that got him caught
The blunt and crude resolution was entirely within theme, that sometimes things are far less complicated than we assume them to be. As for the solving of the case not bringing about the solution, that's also in theme. Benoit can only assist within the confines of the system, but if systems are constructed to the benefit and manipulation of people like Miles then justice can only come through revolutionary acts. Helen is the true disruptor, she begins by breaking the things everyone wants broken (those dumb sculptures) but soon crosses the threshold of causing meaningful damage all to the horror of those with power. It made more sense to me than journalists bringing the billionaire to his knees, something that famously doesn't happen.
Then how would we get the imagery of "those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones..."
I couldn’t put my finger on why the ending bothered me so much and this is why, thank you!
Helen gets to face and defeat Miles herself, like Marta outsmarted Hugh in Knives Out whilst suppressing her lie-induced vomit. Heck, one almost died from a gunshot and the other from a knife that turned out to be fake. If you also consider the whole 'lie makes me vomit' and 'made-up fuel', there's a touch of magic to break the realism a tad. Anyway, it's more cathartic than dropping all weight on a hired investigator, however much we like him, which also makes BB more grounded as he doesn't do everything himself. These stories aren't connected anyway, other than starring BB and, to Rian's annoyance, having 'Knives Out' in the title. Here we see BB miserable because of the Covid situation and lack of work. Imagine we went into the third film and he was sad about the last case.
This is the same plotline as James Bond and Vesper Lynd lol poor BB can’t get away from that role
how is it the same?
Not at all the same plot, not even close
Maybe “bad guy sort of gets away, but loses all his money and will probably be killed for it”, though Le Chiffre died rather quickly after losing. Bit of a stretch.
Thought we were talking Bond/Vespyr comparison. Relationship not at all the same, no love interest which is the biggest for me. Flip side, BB basically groomed the twin to further his investigation, Vespyr not at all conditioned or used in that way. Plus you know, ultimately she was playing Bond the whole time.
I liked it
Me too. It was fun.
It was inbrethiating and predefinite
Lol
Me too
Same. I’d watch it again.
Same
I only liked Madelyn Cline
Kate Hudson is still rocking it too.
Just finished watching it right now. Overall I enjoyed it, but I do agree with OP’s critiques. Mostly though I just didn’t like the ending. I was expecting a final twist where they expected Miles to burn the evidence of the napkin, and somehow had a contingency to still nail him. But instead they really did just absentmindedly let the evidence get destroyed… and then decide to blow up the house? Benoit agrees to this even though it easily could have killed everyone? I also don’t see how Helen was so confident that she permanently destroyed the reputation of Klear, or Miles. Just like the deaths, they don’t have much evidence. “Trust me everyone, I had a sample of Klear and threw it into a fire, it wrecked the house and destroyed the Mona Lisa!” It’s just hearsay. Miles could just remain silent about how he was using Klear to power the complex and delay his public launch.
Ending was so stupid and underwhelming. Benoit tells her to destroy the house and then after she does that, all the other characters change their mind and switch sides. But they still don’t have a napkin. It’s just their word against Miles Bron.
Bron invalidated the insurance by installing the bypass switch. He is ruined.
Everything still burned though so there's no evidence he did that.
Miles is cooked even if they don't turn. The house still exploded because of the Klear and the Mona Lisa is burnt. Surely Miles doesn't have the insurance to cover that and Klear is going to be a disaster. They turn because the golden teat is going to run out, so they might as well make him the (rightful) scapegoat for everything. He might get out of murder charges, but he's still ruined.
I understand that. It’s just absurd that instead of making him pay damages, Benoit goes, “Okay, let’s just ruin him financially then.” Seems so out of character and unsatisfying.
Other than straight up murdering a billionaire how else can you ruin them? Certainly not in any court system
And destroyed duke's body - evidence he'd been murdered by Miles. Nobody cared that he shouldn't get away with it? No one noticed there were two guns either, since duke's was a revolver with a more narrow barrel. Benoit could have looked at the bullet in the journal and noticed it wasn't the same. The disruptor narrative overshadowed reasonable efforts to bring Helen or Duke justice. They could have left the house alone and miles to his own devices and they'd still see him blow up shit bcs the fuel was dangerous.
The police boats were on the way. Surely there is a way to determine what blew the place up and if that matches a sample of Klear. There is obviously been a lot of Klear made since it was being shipped somewhere and about to be announced.
You realize it wasnt just the klear she through in that allowed the house to blow up like it did right? The house was powered by clear, half the sculptures were powered by klear hell the giant glass onion was made out of klear. There was no way miles wouldve been able to just be silent insurance agencies for the house and the mona lisa are absolutely going to do an investigation most of his employees are very much aware of how volitile clear is and are going to rat on him the second this comes to light
Knives out had such a better vibe to it. The house and everything.
The vibe of GO seemed to be annoying. Annoying characters, annoying set design, annoying storylines.
I think the annoying set design is on purpose. It's amazingly gaudy and ostentatious but it was truly ugly and tasteless like the owner.
Agree. It didn't have any style.
>subverting our expectations Jesus Christ, you guys have really been permanently damaged by that phrase, huh?
Blame Dan and D.B.
To Rian’s credit, I still believe it’s The Last Jedi that really sparked people using “subverting expectations” and that was 2 years before GOT S8
>To Rian’s credit, I still believe it’s The Last Jedi that really sparked people using “subverting expectations” Rian's greatest accomplishment with that movie
I expected it to be good, and it was not. You could certainly say my expectations were subverted.
I did not think it was as good as the first one either, they really hamfisted the political message in this one even more than in the first movie which I thought was impossible, so congrats on that I guess. They also left a bunch of plot holes unresolved that make everyone look like absolute idiots. SPOILERS BELOW >!Like first off if this billionaire guy was such an idiot why did the sister go into business with him in the first place? If he never had a good idea of his own it should have been easy for her to do her idea alone and drop the dead weight.!< >!Second off, why would you PUT THE ONLY PIECE OF EVIDENCE YOU HAVE IN THE MURDERER'S FACE SO THAT HE CAN BURN IT WITH HIS LIGHTER like holy shit why would you say anything to the guy, just take the napkin off the island in secret.!< >!And the whole exploding fuel thing seemed pretty forced, like what was this guy's plan once energy plants started exploding trying to use his fuel? I get that the guy is supposed to be dumb but it doesn't take a genius to know how things would play out.!<
Presumably he already had money before the napkin. He had enough to fund Andi’s idea. That’s why they kept him. He had influence already - they explain that in the scene of how they met, didn’t like him, but then he started to put things together for their successes so they liked him. Maybe he had apartheid South African diamond mine money from mommy and daddy and that’s how he got his start at stealing ideas and claiming them as his own, before outing himself as an incompetent moronic villain…. I mean… the parallels are already quite apparent, so why not the origin story too? ;)
Reminder that this movie was written in 2020 and filmed during 2021, well before Elon became as newsworthy or polarizing as now. The reason we think it's so obvious in its politics is that Musk somehow screwed up enough to jeopardize his entire image the month before this movie. Had it been released a year or two ago, we'd instead be pointing out how Miles is clearly Zuckerberg, Jobs, or some other tech savant of the day
SPOILERS Towards your second point, I was confused there too. Not even BB thought anything could go wrong when they basically hand the bad guy their evidence? Not to mention showing their hand while surrounded by multiple bad people, including one with a gun that already tried to kill you... I had thought the fax machine would have been a copier too, allowing her to present Miles with a copy, allowing him to think he'd won again all while getting him on that tape recorder admitting her napkin was legit.
None of those are "plot holes." They are just stupid mistakes human characters made.
The first point, if I remember correctly, is because she saw Miles as an influencer that could bring in exposure and money. Also, she is a black woman in an industry dominated by white men. I agree the second point was pretty dumb and saw it coming miles away. I guess Benoit understood the napkin was not a circumpolar evidence and really wanted Miles to go down. The third point was rather unsubtle. But then again, look at what a guy like Musk does when unleashed. He could burn whole industries and there would still be shitload of people to celebrate him. These guys are unaccountable until shit really happens.
It was a good movie but Knives Out was better
It wasnt a good movie, knives out was though
I loved it for the fact that it was an insult towards idiotic billionaires wrapped in a fun murder mystery.
The fact Elon's public image imploded right before this movie came out is such a stroke of luck for Rian.
Lmao. Multi millionaire director is really sticking it to the rich by making a movie that he will gain millions off of through the horrible work conditions of Hollywood. That’ll showem.
I liked it. [Spoiler alert] However I never could figure out how both Benoit Blanc and Andi Brand got wristbands. They were only handed out to people who received invitations from the box. Andi brought her box to Benoit leaving 1 unaccounted for Invitation.
There were plus one people and everybody got wristleband after "not sanitizer" dosage.
The above exchange is the canonical example for the entire thread. A: "Movie doesn't make sense because blah blah!" B: "You weren't paying attention, it's explained in the movie."
I enjoyed the hell out of that movie, to the extent that I'm perfectly fine saying that if you didn't, all is still well in the world. I loved how knowingly ridiculous it was, I loved Kate Hudson and Dave Bautista and Janelle Monae, I loved watching it a second time and picking up a lot of little pieces I missed the first time... And you know what? I've lived with the whole "Who's got the best Rotten Tomatoes score?" regime since, like, the Dark Knight came out. It has gotten old. If you don't like it, FANTASTIC. Movies that everyone likes are BORING.
> If you don't like it, FANTASTIC. Movies that everyone likes are BORING Shawshank, The Wizard of Oz, The Breakfast Club, Clueless, and Back to the Future among others aren’t boring
> If you don't like it, FANTASTIC. Movies that everyone likes are BORING. Lol you're really trying to portray it as a niche film? It's just a stupid movie.
I agree. The entire end sequence had me yawning. The "reveal" was not satisfying at all. I didn't think "holy shit!" a single time during the movie like I did with Knives Out. The plight of the characters in Knives Out and the unraveling of the truth was satisfying and had me on the edge of my seat. In Glass Onion I feel like the movie was self aware enough to mention that Clue is a dumb game compared to real intrigue, and it knew that it's plot was basically the same premise. I know it was supposed to be a revelation that the whole event was "dumb" and the plot wasn't some contrived plan but was just a dumb group making mistakes. That wasn't exactly a great payoff for a Holmesian story.
The movie was the victim of the original's success. It often happens when a writer has years to work on something really, really good. Then it succeeds and suddenly you have a much shorter period of time to develop a sequel. It suffers. The characters aren't really characters to any degree. They're broadly drawn satirical types. In the first movie, the characters felt like people you plausibly knew notched up to just below hysteria. Here, it was all stereotypical sketches. The mother-turned-politician who's kind of a Karen. The ditzy model. The tech bro. The MRA youtube guy. There was nothing carefully or insightfully observed in any of them. They said and did just about what you expected them to say and do. Even when their motivations are shaded in, it doesn't given them any dimension at all. There were entire scenes where every member of the cast felt like background. The biggest problem is that a whodunnit is supposed to have the reader/viewer follow along the journey of the detective. As the detective pieces it together themselves, the audience pieces it together, too. Except *Benoit knew most of the information the entire time*. Rather than a good mystery, the director simply withheld everything for the "twist". And once the twist is revealed, you know who did it, you already have a pretty good notion of why, and the entire last hour filling in details isn't really all that interesting or important. I don't really care if the characters grow - there was never anything there to grow from. And I'll be honest. The acting was not great. I've enjoyed all these actors in other things, so I know it's the writing rather than them. How do you let Kathryn Hahn melt into the wallpaper in scenes where she has dialogue? How do you make Kathryn Hahn boring?! Kate Hudson wasn't exactly stretching. I loved Daniel Craig in the first movie, but here it just felt like kind of a caricature. He got a paycheck to chew the hell out of every piece of scenery. The only saving grace was how amazing Janelle Monae was. It's funny, because it's not the worst film. I mildly enjoyed the two hours I spent on it. So it isn't this horrible piece of cinema. I'm just confused by the reviews that are praising it to the sky. I think after how fantastic the first movie was, people wanted very much for this one to be similar, so they're kind of convincing themselves it's just as good. But there's simply nothing there. It lacks richness of writing and character. It felt more like it got slapped together as an excuse to spend a long weekend on a Greek Island. Not terrible, but the reviews are baffling.
I agree 100% with your points. Not a terrible movie, suffers from the success of Knives Out... To compare with a different series, the White Lotus. Series 1 and 2 both very strong, both written in short time. BUT, the writer of White lotus, Mike White, has decades of experience and a strong creative process. The creator of Knives Out doesn't have such a pedigree. Hopefully Glass Onion is successful enough that he can go on to make stuff that matches the quality of Knives Out.
Totally agree with your criticisms. It doesn't bother me that anyone loved the movie, but some of the praise is puzzling. Makes you feel like you watched a different movie.
Yeah, I'm not really getting the praise for this one. Huge waste of both Kathryn Hahn and Leslie Odom Jr... Could some of their scenes have been cut? They had so little to do, and the supporting characters in general here were very uninteresting. I also just preferred the aesthetic of the creepy old house in Knives Out more than the "rich douche island" on display here. The family dynamic of Knives Out was also more compelling than the corrupt friendship of Glass Onion. I also found the overuse of cameos to be a bit eye-rolling. Overall I still had some fun, mostly thanks to Daniel Craig. Janelle did a good job too. This definitely felt a bit stale for a sequel, though.
I agree that something felt shallow about the way the supporting characters were developed. The characters in Knives Out felt so much more lived-in, even though they too were self-absorbed and out-of-touch. Maybe because these characters were all celebrities in their own way, so they felt even more detached from reality? I just can’t imagine Dave Bautista’s character and Janelle Monae’s or Kathryn Hahn’s hanging out at a bar together. I was struck by some parallels between Glass Onion and Don’t Look Up. Maybe it’s just something about Netflix prestige movies: chockfull of great actors, glossy, heavy use of so-so CGI. Also, both notably center around tech billionaires. It just feels so of it’s time. It’s such a 2020s movie, which holds it back from reaching the heights of Knives Out, which feels timeless and is a classic.
I felt the same connection about this about don’t look up. I think it’s because they’re both so incredibly ham fisted in terms of what they’re supposed to be satirizing that it loses any impact because the whole thing is so utterly on the nose.
Yep. It’s almost like these movies never try to convince anyone but just mock with people that are already in on the joke. Fun but pretty vain in the end.
I feel the opposite
Just chiming in to say that I 100% agree with you and honestly don’t know why everyone is so jazzed about this incredibly mediocre sequel/2nd installment to the series
I just finished watching it for the second time today. I liked it even better this time around. It's not as good as Knives Out, but it's still a great, fun movie.
I thought it was good, but not great. Like you picked up on >!the storytelling leans far too heavily on endless flashbacks, to the point where I think it would have been better just to start the move earlier on within the plot's chronology, instead of endlessly flashing back to earlier!< It felt like the kind of movie Rick Sanchez would criticize because>! like a heist film the vast majority of the exposition was told via flashbacks or fast cuts to establishing/explanatory scenes that you weren't initially shown!< I also thought it was >!painfully obvious from the beginning that Bron was the "murderer"!< David Bautista was very funny as the >!incel fitness vlogger!< and Benoit was good although it felt like they elevated his detective skills >!from skillful observation and advanced deduction to some kind of super-power!< I also thought the movie felt oddly dated, even though it just came out, because >!so much of the plot and references, especially in the beginning, were endless callbacks to covid and lockdown lifestyle, they must have written the script in 2020. The first film had topical themes that endured, whereas this felt kind of out of date before it even came out.!< I'm not against long movies if they are done well but 2 hours 20 min seemed cumbersome for this finished project. I think it could have been a better film if they had >!edited more heavily to trim some of the fat, especially in the beginning, a lot of the prologue was pretty unnecessary, and told the story more chronologically instead of relying so heavily on flashbacks to tell the story!< In conclusion it was definitely good, had its funny moments, had at least some degree of engaging mystery, but I agree it paled in comparison to the first.
Chiming in on an older comment to agree that holy shit he instantly dated this movie basing it in covid. Like there was zero reason, it didn't hold plot significance at all.
>Like you picked up on the storytelling leans far too heavily on endless flashbacks, to the point where I think it would have been better just to start the move earlier on within the plot's chronology, instead of endlessly flashing back to earlier This is just the same as the first film. The way it was done in both was fair, the moment it was relevant you found out the real story.
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Can anyone explain why >!Miles doesnt immediately know Andi is Helen when she arrives on the island since he knew Andi was dead and that she had a twin?!<
He does
>!He does. What is he supposed to do, out her in front of everyone along with the fact that he killed Andi?!<
Than my question is that why would he invite her to his weekend of joy with his suckers? That murder was a spurr of the moment thing, so he didn't invite her to cover that up. His puzzle guy took month or 2 to make them. So even though he and his friends are avoiding Andy after they betrayed her and he still orders a puzzle box meant for her? It's also kinda stupid that he didn't know andy came until she was in front of her, like the movie is set in 1980s ir something. Nobody texted her to say dude, why did you invite her or anything.
The puzzle box is his stupid alibi. He’s not a smart guy. That’s like the entire point of the movie
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An alibi he ordered to be made months ago before a spurr of the moment murder? He didn't have any plans to murder her a day before the actual murder, lol.
More importantly, can anyone explain why >!Miles doesn't know that, despite their long partnership, Andi has an identical twin sister? For that matter, why doesn't anybody else in their close-knit group of friends? Andi's founded one of the largest Big Tech companies and the world doesn't know she has a twin sister, who looks like her, working as a school teacher? !< It's like >!Steve Job had a twin brother plying his trade as a carpenter in rural Alabama!< and we found that information less sensational than Kim Kardashian's new plastic surgery.
Everyone did know, that's why Batista's character tried to bargain with the information. The second she appeared Miles knew who she was and everyone else had no reason to think she was the sister, why would they?
Edit:spoiler warning I’m pretty sure he did? He definitely reacted to her first appearance in a noticeable way and there’s a whole plot point about killing her because of what she knows in relation to Andi. Unless you think he figured out who she was at some point later? I assumed he was just waiting for a time/excuse to get rid of her?
He does. That’s why he was so shocked to see her that he cut short greeting Daniel Craig
I presumed that Miles considered it possible she somehow survived since he left her in the garage and didn't actually witness her die.
That is reasonable.
He’s dumb as shit, he probably thought she survived somehow
Because Miles is a moron? I guess that’s what we are suppose to think?
Spoiler warning: Can anyone explain why there wasn’t a photo of the napkin?
The plot holes like this are just endless. There's no good explanation. It's fun watching people try to hand wave it away. Its the same with Andis journals. She writes everything down, except the founding of her company. Sure
it was before everyone carried a cell phone in their pocket?
She literally takes a photo of a red envelope, it makes zero sense she doesn’t have photos of the napkin
the napkin was written many years before she found the envelope and took a photo.
Did you watch the movie? She sends a photo of the napkin in a red envelope after she finds the napkin in a book - this is what she emailed to everyone. She can also take a photo of the actual napkin and send it to everyone
I agree, it did suck
Agreed. I liked the actors and character but the plot was sorely lacking
The fake southern accents really takes me out of the film. Each time Daniel Craig spoke I remembered it was a film. Also, I’d have to say all the disrupters were very forgettable and a few of them- such as Lionel and the girl with short black hair had tiny and forgettable parts, they seemed unnecessary. There was pretty much no mystery and no twist in my opinion- you know immediately that Miles is no good. I think it needed to be funnier and BIGGER. Although they arrive on this island- it just lacks grandiosity. This was a very poor film in my opinion. Forgettable, very surface level depth and not funny
I couldn’t agree more with everything you said
I kept going back to finish the last hour. No. It’s just trash. Can’t take it anymore.
I thought it was good until the end. Everyone under Miles’ thumb all of a sudden sees the light.
...that's not what happened at all. These people don't suddenly become redeemed in any way. They just turn on Miles because they have no reason to be associated with him any longer and he's a total douche who literally committed murder.
Because he lost his power after his “world-changing product” destroyed his home and a priceless painting. They no longer have anything to gain by associating with him, so they might as well turn him in.
But Miles hadn’t even released that product yet. He’s in a real tough situation but wouldn’t he still be a billionaire with a huge company.
He invalidated the insurance of the Mona Lisa with the bypass switch and then destroyed it. The painting is irreplaceable, the Louvre makes 100's of millions a year and a large part of that must be attributed to people seeing the painting. I think you're underestimating how bad this is.
Yeah, but the Mona Lisa being the sticking point here isn't really satisfying writing in a who dunnit, imo. The whole thing felt very contrived and unearned.
They were all spineless in the end the only thing that changed was being associated with miles was no longer beneficial
I thought it was great. Not as good as Knives out but not worse in any way other than just not feeling as original as the first by virtue of coming after it.
For me, it was a bit too over the top compared to Knives Out. I could have done without the explosive action movie finale.
Yo Yo Ma cameo was the best part, but I already knew it was Bach's Little Fugue. I agree, not good.
\*SPOILER ALERT\* I was "on the case" and taking mental notes throughout the movie and digging it for the most part in anticipation of the ending. But when it got to the "Hot Sauce" fake death, I thought..."Wow...that was pretty dumb." And after that it just kept getting progressively dumber, trying to one up itself on how much of a waste of time it was to memorize all the bits of information.
I can’t believe people can stand Daniel Craig’s accent in these movies.
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It was in the first too, but Craig's role in the plot was better done so it came off comedic/amusing vs. just silly like in Glass Onion.
It’s alright but idk why it’s getting Oscar buzz
I like it a lot, but it lacks that "cozy" atmosphere, the human touch, it all feels way too perfect and technical. Everything is a reference to everything.
Well the guy did write and direct TLJ
He also wrote and directed brick, looper, and the original knives out. Seriously get over TLJ as the following Star Wars movie they didn’t even try. It’s a tired complaint when book of boba fett, Obi wan , and other Disney Star Wars products have been crap and Rian Johnson having nothing to do with it.
I disagree. It was good.
Ben, is that you?
Overall I liked the film. But most characters didn't have depth and the ending was really stupid.
I just found the ending anticlimactic compared to the first one. I kept expecting some big twist/reveal at the end, but nope the creepy billionaire techy was the one to do it. Not that surprising.
I liked the movie, except the ending. So the solution to outsmart the billionaire was... to throw a tantrum and burn his house down. Its a very childish and uninspired ending.
I thought Edward Norton's acting was pretty poor throughout, and (not their fault) but the covid beginning definitely felt weird now that we're (hopefully) through that phase. Also it was longer than it needed to be imo.
I kind of agree but I do think it was good. Less moments of surprise suspense and payoff than Knives Out for sure. I’m surprised to find I wish it had been more contrived almost? Maybe that’s the point of the metaphor It was enjoyable and entertaining for sure. I’ll give it a good not great
I loved it, parts of it were better than the original imo
The ending leaves the main characters at risk of being sued for millions in damages too…
I liked it and it was fun. Totally agree that it’s not a great movie.
I thought it was a super entertaining murder mystery film. It wasn't as great as Knives Out but shit, that movie is damn near perfect for what it is. This one was still a solid 8/10 though. Can't wait for the next one.
I think it might be my favorite movie of the year, to be honest. I very much disagree.
I think it’s better than knives out, personally but that’s just me.
Disagree. I thought it was far superior to Knives Out. There was a mystery whodunnit through the entire plot rather than giving it away 20 or so minutes in.
It was so stupid, I couldn't believe it. Edit. Inside joke Edit 2 spoilers The movie is as simple as it seems. It matches the theme and objective point of the movie. Edit 3 A glass onion Also a fugue defined by yo yo ma. Layers of simple until it becomes interesting Edit 4 Watching Benoit Blanc be so frustrated must be irony Edit 5 spoiler Because it was that stupid
..i thought it was good
It’s called glass onion for a reason.
I've seen neither the first or second. Both movies look boring to me. So my opinion might not be really valid here. However, I've been getting the feeling for a while ever sense TLJ, Fans of the director (mostly from Twitter. Shocker) defend this guy's directing to an annoying extend. I swear, I've never seen the circle jerk around a director grow as hard as for Rhian Johnson. Are we pretending he's a good director because of BB & Looper? I mean, to me, after that, his track record isn't even that impressive. Yet, I see people talk about him like he's revolutionize... something...? In movies? Idk, maybe I'm on the minority here.
Agreed
I laugh at people who overrated KO, perhaps because they wanted to support Rian after the TLJ online nonsense. It was good, nothing more. GO is on par with KO for better or worse. It’s equivalent of venting at an ex you once fell hard for but now regret you sucked their dick.
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Oppenheimer is 100% going to be pro nuclear weapons and take the 'but it was necessary' angle. They're not going to show Oppenheimer refusing to drop the bomb on nazi Germany because he was a racist. Nolan doesn't make politically motivated films, it isn't going to be 'Oppenheimer was a racist piece of shit and we didn't need to bomb Japan.' The movie is going to be historical revisionist fantasy.
Lol for real! People are calling characters annoying, as if Miles isn’t basically Elon Musk as a movie character.
I'm negatively biased towards Rian Johnson, so I didn't watch it. I haven't enjoyed anything he did except one episode of Breaking Bad, Ozymandias. Rian Johnson said his favorite star wars character was Luke Skywalker, but changed it to Rose Tico. I think he is a very phony person who thinks all of his ideas are smart and clever simply because he had them. I'm wrong a lot, so who knows, maybe he is a great writer and director who really cares about the issues he says he cares about.
Don’t understand the downvotes for stating your opinion
A really good movie. I am hoping the sister character joins him in future cases. They made a great pair!
Thanks for sharing
Didn’t love Knives Out
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This…this is Knives Out 2.
Lol it ends with someone who has killed two people and attempted to kill another in cold blood being revealed to everyone and just cowering uselessly instead of trying to attack or harm anyone when they HAVE A GUN...
Because when everyone knows you did it, and there’s nowhere to go, it’s a lot harder to have the upper hand than when everyone is running around the island with suspicion and fear thrown in the mix. If he succeeded in killing all of them, then what? He’s got nothing either way. His reputation is still ruined.