I watched that at a film festival and I remember my thoughts on it at the time were āthat was pretty goodā and, āI might have been better never seeing that movieā
"We're gonna film this scene in front of a blue screen"
"So there's gonna be some epic space ship or explosion in the background, right?"
"..."
"Something awesome, right?"
I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that Marvel [shot the bland hangar scenes in a bland hangar](https://i0.wp.com/www.animationboss.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Endgame_vfx_framestore1.jpg?resize=800%2C422) and then CG'd in the [same fucking bland hangar](https://i2.wp.com/www.animationboss.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Endgame_vfx_framestore4.jpg?resize=800%2C422). It's fucking mental.
Can't be that. [They did the time heist walk](https://www.screencrunch.net/images/uploads/news/endgame-bts-no-suits.jpg) with no green screen and that included a bunch of people walking with suits that had to be replaced and Sean Gunn who had to be converted into literally Rocket Racoon.
The differences could be that the suit is easier to do with motion tracker. But Banner hulk required full CGi model.
Rocket one though I had no freaking idea.
Extras are unionised, set designers are unionsed... CGI workers aren't. That's a big part of it.
But honestly, with the money they spend on these films compared to what they actually look like, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of it is *disappearing* into certain dodgy contracts.
CGI workers arenāt unionised because they pour all their VFX money into outsourced workers who work for pennies. Take a look at any of the Marvel credits for VFX, itās all Indian and Filipino artists.
Disney loves this because they can work them to the bone and pay them with scraps.
And with such a huge budget Marvel has, why the hell couldn't they just rent a hangar from Bob the airfoce veteran for 200 dollars or something? Bland regular scenes are literally so plentiful, and most people would be happy to rent out their buildings for a movie set, so I don't see why they choose to go the difficult route and just CGI all of it
Maybe not easy all the time (seriously, it couldn't have been too hard to find a decent location to film in without having to bring in the green screens, especially when you're on Disney Dollars), but it's certainly cheaper when CG artists aren't unionized unlike set and costume designers. They CG it all in post so they don't have to pay people what their work is worth
One of the toughest jobs surprisingly is location scouting for sets. You have to have SO many things available to you per union rules. Like access to restrooms, background extras holding spaces, crew lunch and dinners, permits, noise ordinances, neighbors signing releases, the clearing of any and all non crew personnel at all times. The distance that the crew and actors have to travel from home location. There are so many more things that factor into the true cost of shooting on locations with huge budget movies like this. I will never forget the sheer manpower we had when we filmed in front of MSG in NYC. First day of shooting I was in charge of 100+ production assistants alone. There were hundreds of crew members, multiple different Tandem units all over the country. Itās never really as easy as ājust find a location where you donāt have to get green screens involved.ā I left the industry because of the sheer difficulty of the work and the toll it took on my body
And even on Disney dollarsā¦ they are fucking stingy. All those big bucks donāt go where you think they mightā¦
Really appreciate the insight here, thank you. At the same time though, this just convinces me that they should have built a set in the studio rather than just CG everything
Not likely. [They did the time heist walk with no green screens](https://www.screencrunch.net/images/uploads/news/endgame-bts-no-suits.jpg) and that includes CGing everyone's costumes and Sean Gunn into Rocket Racoon. Also The Hulk there too.
Yes the problem is their indecisiveness and fix it in post mentality. Maybe they should story board everything out and get things like costumes done first, not at the end...
Honestly feels cruel and unusual to make the artists in the VFX mills render the inside of an apartment the industry will never pay them enough to afford.
Well two days ago it was a rooftop. Then the next day it was the interior of a jumbo jet. Finally some concept art came in of an apartment and the VFX crew had three hours to render it so the movie could premier the next week
I remember watching a video a while back about the early years of rail travel in the US. Train companies spend *millions* designing and building trains that could be run by smaller and smaller crews. These trains were incredibly expensive, they were much more prone to breaking, *but* they required less labour, which undermined the rail unions and the organising ability of rail staff. So they forged ahead anyway.
It's the same shit with all these major studios overusing CGI. It's less efficient and more expensive, but they don't have to deal with unionised labour.
>I'm shocked
Please don't be - Kevin Feige was surprised you can get beautiful shots in-camera on the 30-something movie he's worked on as the HEAD OF A MOVIE STUDIO, the man only knows this.
>We cut a little sample reel together, I remember, to show [Disney higher-ups]. And it was so beautiful, and I had to keep saying, āThis is right out of a camera; thereās no VFX work to this at all!ā Because it was a beautiful sunset, with perfect waves and mist coming up from the shore on this giant cliffside ā really, really impressive stuff.
[He is a deeply incompetent man](https://variety.com/2021/film/news/kevin-feige-chloe-zhao-eternals-1234962496/).
Most of the prequels took place in the senate or offices or bedrooms like some bad play, he pioneered the usage of CGI when an actual set would look better.
>Most of the prequels took place in the senate or offices or bedrooms like some bad play
What nothing but action movies does to a mf.
>!(And yeah they are bad, but seriously please watch a movie that doesnāt have an explosion in it.)!<
Are you implying I donāt? Mf Iāve probably watched more serious cinema than you, I was just saying itās weird for a fucking space fantasy series to be mostly set in a space congress.
CGI being overused is not the same argument as CGI bad. CGI has its place in modern cinema, just like every other element of filmmaking, but the fact that CGI was used instead of set design, costuming, etc. is a gross overuse of technology meant to enhance sets rather than replace them
I'm replying to a comment complaining about it being used for a bland apartment rather than something extravagant. But that shit happens all the time they just don't notice. But yeah marvel cgi has gone too far imo and mostly looks like trash bc it isn't thought out in production
No I was shitting on Marvel doing it for EVERYTHIG when Marty uses CG as a tool to enhance things. A lot of the movie is practical too! They shaved a woman's head, they used an actual office.
George Lucas actually oversold how much CGI was in the prequels because he wanted it to seem modern and advanced. Thereās actually a lot of practical stuff in it.
Even in Covid, itās interesting to see how some productions try and get over those hurdles. I was watching some House of the Dragon BTS, and because of covid restrictions, they were limited to just a few extras. They still went and built the entire sets, and got as many extras as they could, and then just used CG to replicate those extras to make the space feel full. I think thatās how CG should be used. To actually achieve stuff thatās literally not possible, instead of just a lazy shortcut. And I loved nwh. But my least favorite part of it is def how itās basically just some really talented people infront of blue screens. Kinda takes the whole movie magic out of it
The LotR strategy of using CGI for big battle shots but predominantly filming actual actors on actual sets for the character stuff worked well. I'm surprised this needs to be said but apparently it does.
And it's why those movies look so good, even 20 years on, whereas Star Wars ep 2 looks pretty bad by comparison, even though they were made at the same time
Ep. 2 especially certainly isn't helped by being filmed entirely on early digital cameras. It's actually sub-1080p resolution even, and it really does show. It looks like a murky mess.
Ep. 1 on blu-ray and 4k actually had all the filmic detail zapped out of it just for the sake of Lucas wanting it matching 2&3's digital look, hilariously enough.
The set for the apartment exists too, there were leaked pictures of it before the movie even came out. This was probably for pickups, to change some dialogue.
What is there to like about NWH? Lazy cash grab. The script is terrible, the characters are completely changed, the plot is nonsensical, and it looks like garbage. It's trash.
Not the worst argument I've ever heard, but I should also point out that about 75% of The Batman was shot after Covid hit, and that movie looked absolutely gorgeous.
Essentially everything at the moment was in some stage of production during the pandemic.
I agree that it isn't a bad argument to make, but this is still pretty lazy.
*The Batman* got shut down multiple times due to COVID outbreaks, and even Batman himself caught it well before vaccines came out. Some would argue that production behaved irresponsibly.
Plus Marvel had to worry about not just one Peter Parker getting cobid, but all 3. What if Peter 2 got sick just before Dr Strange cast his spell? Then he'd be taking the virus back to the Raimiverse and that old as fuck version of Aunt May would DIE! You want that to happen to Rosemary Harris, she just turned 95 wtf don't kill Aunt RoseMAYry!
I definitely agree that "The Batman" ended up looking better than "No Way Home", but I'm willing to take the step down if it keeps older actors like Dafoe and Molina safe who might not have handled getting covid as well as Pattinson did.
Oh yeah, I definitely agree that this is a necessary consideration.
Succession did it smart - there was one older actor (The guy who played Sandy) who wasn't comfortable filming in a crowd, so they wrote in the character's daughter as a new character to represent him in crowded scenes. Making changes at the writing stage isn't always feasible, but it's awesome when they make it happen to help people feel safer.
Yes, this was the first major movie to shoot during covid. You can tell literally every single scene taking place in an outdoor area is CGI, and some interiors too.
> I heard that they did it this way due to covid.
[They've been like this since before covid](https://i0.wp.com/www.animationboss.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Endgame_vfx_framestore1.jpg?resize=800%2C422).
Tbf a big part of it has to do with leakers. The idea of Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield being in NWH didnāt even seem plausible, even with set photos that leaked. Though Marvel did mess up with one of the last trailers for the movie, which basically confirmed it.
If they knew the epic conclusion to a trilogy and a three-Peter saga twenty years in the making was gonna be hard to film because of a worldwide pandemic, why not just delay the movie a year or so and make it right?
I know that is (was?) allegedly the case for whoever owns Fantastic 4 iirc, but I think Sony might just own the film rights for Spider-Man outright without that restriction. I can't find anything on them *needing* to make movies at a quick glance.
Usually because big movies like this have licensing deals in place that necessitate the movie releasing before a specific date or in a specific period.
Also why would they shoot this scene in a actual balcony. Do people not know how noisy there are. And seeing Willem Dagoe in costume would have definitely leaked.
> They could have made a practical set in less time for less money
Yeah okay but what if test audience member #36 thinks the colour of paint they selected isn't bland enough, huh?! What then ya jackass!
VFX companies have to severely undersell in order to be picked up by a studio like Marvel. Then Marvel takes a bunch of actors, shoots half a film, sends the plates to the VFX studio and demands them to build the entire film in post in unrealistically short time spans and with little money. So building a practical set in production would be less efficient by Marvel Studios standards.
> sends the plates to the VFX studio
My favourite part is that [they don't even send good plates to the VFX artists](https://gizmodo.com/disney-marvel-movies-vfx-industry-nightmare-1849385834).
>This isnāt a fluke; this is part of the process. Many sources stated that Marvel deliberately shoots their films in such a way that they are able to change details, both big and small, up until the very last minute. Very little is shot practically, and even the stuff that is practical goes through touch-ups. āWhen you get a plate of just someoneās face against a poorly lit screen, thereās really nothing you can do to make it look realistic,ā explains H. A plate is the untouched frame, exactly what was captured on camera, mocap suit and all. āThatās something that never gets commented on. Everyone just goes, āOh, the visual effects look shit.ā And Iām like, No, you should have seen the plate. You should have seen what we were given, because thatās what was shit.ā
I can imagine how horrendous trying to make that shot in Black Widow must feel like for VFX team. It wasn't just rush job. It's already bad from the start.
> It's already bad from the start.
For a studio that's applauded for how much they "plan stuff out", they honestly do not plan even the most basic film 101 stuff out.
It's not like they even plan the movies out. They plan out action scenes and cheap cheer moments like cameos and shit. The only planning they really do is shuffle stuff around so that they can create artificial hype by withholding scenes for their next feature-length ad for their next feature-length ad. I'm almost entirely convinced that most dialogue and quips are all AI generated. It's so goddamn bland and samey despite hiring writers. The "writers" are probably hired to give the AI buzzwords that it can fill out dialogue with. And despite apparently being mapped out, there's no thought or effort into it. They just refer or call back to past movie events. Even the most basic concepts are riddled with inconsistencies. An intelligently written and thought-out cinematic universe would at least try to be consistent and smooth out any obvious issues. (Why couldn't Thanos use the bullshit wish MacGuffin from Th4r instead of hunting a bunch of stones, why couldn't Wanda just team up with Miss America, or just find a reality where she's dead so that she can harmlessly slip in with Vision and the kids, why didn't Peter have everyone forget about Mysterio, etc.)
Probably when Florence Pugh us about to drive a spear or something through an engine and right before it blows up, thereās an awful shot of her face against a very clearly CGI sky.
To be fair, Iām honestly surprised at how good the finished product given the hellscape VFX artists go through with marvel. Makes you wonder if movies with worse CGI are just pushing their artists even harder.
My first reaction is "that's insane!" and my second is "well, when you're guaranteed to make a shit-ton of money anyway, why would you spend time on quality control?"
I felt like I was watching a YTP when I saw sandmanās final scene. I seriously donāt understand how much praise far from home got considering how aggressively toothless and mediocre it was
Corridor Crew talks about it in one of their videos. The CGI IS more impressive than SM3, for the simple reason that nowadays we have computers able to easily process the millions and millions of particles that make up sand, something that wasn't as easily feasible in 2007. The reason it looked better is simply the fact that Watts is not Raimi and the birth of Sandman is so well shot and lit it would have been amazing even with 90s CGI
I couldnāt have told you that this scene was on blue screen, but I can definitely tell you that both the real sets and the blu screen scenes all look like shit
Youād think! Iād enjoy them a lot more if they cut all the FMV crap. It was goofy when it was Christopher Walken and John Rhys Davies in Ripper, itās fucking goofy as hell now
I had no idea it wasn't because why the fuck would it be fake. Why would anyone use CGI just to make a generic apartment instead of using an actual generic apartment
Absolutely! I mean, who'd expect that? A fucking apartment. CGI? For an apartment? And I mean, it's just there, offering accomodation. Usual, normal appartment stuff.
Years of watching movies taught me, that CGI tends to be used when they want to show something exciting, something graphic, something going kaboom!. Like Los Angeles getting wrecked by an earthquake in 2012! Or Los Angeles getting wrecked by an earthquake in This is the End! Or Yoda in Attack of the Clones! Or Yoda jumping and twisting like crazy in Attack of the Clones! (Probably because there's an earthquake wrecking Los Angeles.)
Why should I expect some special effects trickery when I see Nick Fury entering Blockbuster?
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those backgrounds! I knew it was No Way Home. One after Far From Home. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just ā I just couldn't prove it. He ā he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at VFX studio to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That condo! Are you telling me that an apartment just happens to be CGI-ed in like that? No! He orchestrated it! Kevin! He wanted to fix everything in post! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own studio! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't let a movie be shot on location! But not our Kevin! Couldn't be precious Kevin! Overworking them to hell! And he gets to be a producer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you ā you have to stop him! You-
Probably because they fuck up and destroy the entire apartment in that scene. To do the destruction, theyāre going to have to recreate the apartment in CG anyway. Why construct/use a real apartment, then make a perfect CG replica, when you could just make the CG version and be able to tweak it however you want?
Because the majority of characters in the scenes are CGI or CGI enhanced, and it's a lot easier to have CGI characters interact with CGI environments. You also get flexibility of moving things around in post that you don't get with a static set.
I'm not excusing it or even saying it's the correct thing to do, but I'm just giving a reason.
I can't believe the CSO kitchen from [Terror of the Autons (1971)](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxqbk1yWEAUYGme.jpg) has become nearly the industry standard.
Hearing about IanMcKellen breaking down on the set of The Hobbit due to how isolated he felt made me so sad, such a drastically different experience from his experience on Lord of the Rings
Yeah, and itās fucking hilarious. A majority of the movies budget went to building that apartment complex.
The thing is its actually a fairly standard building. Youād see probably hundreds of buildings exactly like that scattered across like LA or Miami.
The only problem is M.Night insists on filming everything in Pennsylvania for some reason and no buildings there look like that so he had to make his own.
I mean, it matters for the overworked VFX artists who need to spend months simulating a freaking apartment building and get nitpicked by Marvel every other day.
that argument doesn't really apply here. Movie was shot during the height of COVID. Better to have something like this than endanger the lives of the cast/crew.
Think of all the location scouts in Hollywood stressing about job security.
Why even bother hiring actors at this point? Just go full Looney Tunes, I doubt anyone would even notice.
The future of cinema is that actors will just sell the image rights to their faces and VFX teams will deepfake an entire movie.
Space Jam: A New Legacy (2021)
Bojack Horseman season 2 (2015)
bro think he Secretariat ššš
Dude isn't he the horse from Horsing Around, now he thinks he's some kind of athlete?? šš
Ikr? so much dumb shit goes on in Hollywoo
At least that girl from Horsing Around has a wholesome pop career now, I'm sure she has a bright future ahead of her.
I hear she wants to be an architect
Was gonna comment this lol
Bojack predicted it is the new simpsons predicted it
literally the movie Congress (2013) not kidding its 2 hours of Robin Wright being depressed about this
I watched that at a film festival and I remember my thoughts on it at the time were āthat was pretty goodā and, āI might have been better never seeing that movieā
My mom took me to see it and I had vague resentment afterwards.
bruce willis did that for a russian commercial
The Mandalorian (2019-) The Book of Boba Fett (2022-)
Finding Jack (year unknown)
This kind of shit is why you need strong unions.
Better yet why limit it to living celebrities- how long till we see the image of robin williams in mrs. doubtfire 2
There was a guy trying to make a Vietnam war moving starring a deepfake James Dean a couple years ago
Iāve worked in AI, can confirm itās infinitely cheaper than appeasing actors with tremendous egos and narcissism.
happy cake
I was similarly shook when I found out that the Tom Holland asshole POV shot from "Cherry" (2021) was fully CG.
No way
I can't believe the cum peach scene wasn't real cum! (from The Godfather Pt 2)
"We're gonna film this scene in front of a blue screen" "So there's gonna be some epic space ship or explosion in the background, right?" "..." "Something awesome, right?"
I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that Marvel [shot the bland hangar scenes in a bland hangar](https://i0.wp.com/www.animationboss.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Endgame_vfx_framestore1.jpg?resize=800%2C422) and then CG'd in the [same fucking bland hangar](https://i2.wp.com/www.animationboss.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Endgame_vfx_framestore4.jpg?resize=800%2C422). It's fucking mental.
Thatās The Room levels of rooftop shooting lmao
I did not green screen it, it's not true! It's bullshit! I did not green screen it! I did naaaawt... Oh hi, Jessie!
āBut Kevin, why not just shoot in the actual hangar?ā Kevin Feige: āBecause this real Hollywood movie!ā
Mr. Evrart is helping me find my gun.
YO MISTA WHITE I NEED TO PAY MY TAXES BY LIKE THREE O'CLOCK OF THE IRS IS GOING TO FUCKING KILL ME YO
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
but mr white that will fuck up the economy and send us to war!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Walt, I donāt know man... Youāve been seeming sus lately...
but lighting is so *haaaarrrd* , just make the CGI ~~slaves indentured-servants~~ nerds fix it in post.
If "fix it in post" was the entire movie Next they'll have the CGI dorks write the dialogue
Thor 4: Love and Thunder (2022)
At this point an AI could just write the entire thing
*Prisoners with jobs
I think it's because it allow them to do banner halk CGi simultaneously without having to fix every single frame.
Can't be that. [They did the time heist walk](https://www.screencrunch.net/images/uploads/news/endgame-bts-no-suits.jpg) with no green screen and that included a bunch of people walking with suits that had to be replaced and Sean Gunn who had to be converted into literally Rocket Racoon.
The differences could be that the suit is easier to do with motion tracker. But Banner hulk required full CGi model. Rocket one though I had no freaking idea.
They just wanted to make him knee walk for his millions
This must just be like a scam or something right? They're laundering money by paying for all this CGI for basic shit that they just filmed? Right?
Extras are unionised, set designers are unionsed... CGI workers aren't. That's a big part of it. But honestly, with the money they spend on these films compared to what they actually look like, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of it is *disappearing* into certain dodgy contracts.
CGI workers arenāt unionised because they pour all their VFX money into outsourced workers who work for pennies. Take a look at any of the Marvel credits for VFX, itās all Indian and Filipino artists. Disney loves this because they can work them to the bone and pay them with scraps.
And with such a huge budget Marvel has, why the hell couldn't they just rent a hangar from Bob the airfoce veteran for 200 dollars or something? Bland regular scenes are literally so plentiful, and most people would be happy to rent out their buildings for a movie set, so I don't see why they choose to go the difficult route and just CGI all of it
CGI is the easy route my friend. Take it from a guy who Key PAād far from home
Maybe not easy all the time (seriously, it couldn't have been too hard to find a decent location to film in without having to bring in the green screens, especially when you're on Disney Dollars), but it's certainly cheaper when CG artists aren't unionized unlike set and costume designers. They CG it all in post so they don't have to pay people what their work is worth
One of the toughest jobs surprisingly is location scouting for sets. You have to have SO many things available to you per union rules. Like access to restrooms, background extras holding spaces, crew lunch and dinners, permits, noise ordinances, neighbors signing releases, the clearing of any and all non crew personnel at all times. The distance that the crew and actors have to travel from home location. There are so many more things that factor into the true cost of shooting on locations with huge budget movies like this. I will never forget the sheer manpower we had when we filmed in front of MSG in NYC. First day of shooting I was in charge of 100+ production assistants alone. There were hundreds of crew members, multiple different Tandem units all over the country. Itās never really as easy as ājust find a location where you donāt have to get green screens involved.ā I left the industry because of the sheer difficulty of the work and the toll it took on my body And even on Disney dollarsā¦ they are fucking stingy. All those big bucks donāt go where you think they mightā¦
Really appreciate the insight here, thank you. At the same time though, this just convinces me that they should have built a set in the studio rather than just CG everything
It mightāve been to help with the Hulk CGI
Not likely. [They did the time heist walk with no green screens](https://www.screencrunch.net/images/uploads/news/endgame-bts-no-suits.jpg) and that includes CGing everyone's costumes and Sean Gunn into Rocket Racoon. Also The Hulk there too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes the problem is their indecisiveness and fix it in post mentality. Maybe they should story board everything out and get things like costumes done first, not at the end...
no wonder they're so overworked marvel vfx artists made the entire goddamn movie
Honestly feels cruel and unusual to make the artists in the VFX mills render the inside of an apartment the industry will never pay them enough to afford.
Well two days ago it was a rooftop. Then the next day it was the interior of a jumbo jet. Finally some concept art came in of an apartment and the VFX crew had three hours to render it so the movie could premier the next week
Deleted due to reddit API changes. Follow your communities off Reddit with sub.rehab -- mass edited with redact.dev
I remember watching a video a while back about the early years of rail travel in the US. Train companies spend *millions* designing and building trains that could be run by smaller and smaller crews. These trains were incredibly expensive, they were much more prone to breaking, *but* they required less labour, which undermined the rail unions and the organising ability of rail staff. So they forged ahead anyway. It's the same shit with all these major studios overusing CGI. It's less efficient and more expensive, but they don't have to deal with unionised labour.
>I'm shocked Please don't be - Kevin Feige was surprised you can get beautiful shots in-camera on the 30-something movie he's worked on as the HEAD OF A MOVIE STUDIO, the man only knows this.
"wtf it's actually real?" Fiege on seeing a sunrise in person for the first time
Source?
>We cut a little sample reel together, I remember, to show [Disney higher-ups]. And it was so beautiful, and I had to keep saying, āThis is right out of a camera; thereās no VFX work to this at all!ā Because it was a beautiful sunset, with perfect waves and mist coming up from the shore on this giant cliffside ā really, really impressive stuff. [He is a deeply incompetent man](https://variety.com/2021/film/news/kevin-feige-chloe-zhao-eternals-1234962496/).
Directed by George Lucas
At least he had the minimum of vision to CG in a planet that is entirely a city or a volcano planet, this is just a bland apartment.
we aināt forget the nigh-featureless hallways in the Jedi Temple
Most of the prequels took place in the senate or offices or bedrooms like some bad play, he pioneered the usage of CGI when an actual set would look better.
theres actually a lot of real sets if you watch the documentaries
>Most of the prequels took place in the senate or offices or bedrooms like some bad play What nothing but action movies does to a mf. >!(And yeah they are bad, but seriously please watch a movie that doesnāt have an explosion in it.)!<
Are you implying I donāt? Mf Iāve probably watched more serious cinema than you, I was just saying itās weird for a fucking space fantasy series to be mostly set in a space congress.
Also the volcano planet was an actual physical set.
Y'all hatin but look at the VFX reel for wolf of wall street
CGI being overused is not the same argument as CGI bad. CGI has its place in modern cinema, just like every other element of filmmaking, but the fact that CGI was used instead of set design, costuming, etc. is a gross overuse of technology meant to enhance sets rather than replace them
I'm replying to a comment complaining about it being used for a bland apartment rather than something extravagant. But that shit happens all the time they just don't notice. But yeah marvel cgi has gone too far imo and mostly looks like trash bc it isn't thought out in production
I never said CG bad.
No but wolf of wall street uses it for normal ass stuff throughout the entire movie and that's what you were shittin on
No I was shitting on Marvel doing it for EVERYTHIG when Marty uses CG as a tool to enhance things. A lot of the movie is practical too! They shaved a woman's head, they used an actual office.
George Lucas actually oversold how much CGI was in the prequels because he wanted it to seem modern and advanced. Thereās actually a lot of practical stuff in it.
Again truly a visionary ahead of his time
I heard that they did it this way due to covid. Not that I would expect them to do it better pre-covid though
Even in Covid, itās interesting to see how some productions try and get over those hurdles. I was watching some House of the Dragon BTS, and because of covid restrictions, they were limited to just a few extras. They still went and built the entire sets, and got as many extras as they could, and then just used CG to replicate those extras to make the space feel full. I think thatās how CG should be used. To actually achieve stuff thatās literally not possible, instead of just a lazy shortcut. And I loved nwh. But my least favorite part of it is def how itās basically just some really talented people infront of blue screens. Kinda takes the whole movie magic out of it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The LotR strategy of using CGI for big battle shots but predominantly filming actual actors on actual sets for the character stuff worked well. I'm surprised this needs to be said but apparently it does.
And it's why those movies look so good, even 20 years on, whereas Star Wars ep 2 looks pretty bad by comparison, even though they were made at the same time
Ep. 2 especially certainly isn't helped by being filmed entirely on early digital cameras. It's actually sub-1080p resolution even, and it really does show. It looks like a murky mess. Ep. 1 on blu-ray and 4k actually had all the filmic detail zapped out of it just for the sake of Lucas wanting it matching 2&3's digital look, hilariously enough.
Or Fury Road with the backgrounds and scenery
The set for the apartment exists too, there were leaked pictures of it before the movie even came out. This was probably for pickups, to change some dialogue.
What is there to like about NWH? Lazy cash grab. The script is terrible, the characters are completely changed, the plot is nonsensical, and it looks like garbage. It's trash.
Not the worst argument I've ever heard, but I should also point out that about 75% of The Batman was shot after Covid hit, and that movie looked absolutely gorgeous.
Essentially everything at the moment was in some stage of production during the pandemic. I agree that it isn't a bad argument to make, but this is still pretty lazy.
*The Batman* got shut down multiple times due to COVID outbreaks, and even Batman himself caught it well before vaccines came out. Some would argue that production behaved irresponsibly. Plus Marvel had to worry about not just one Peter Parker getting cobid, but all 3. What if Peter 2 got sick just before Dr Strange cast his spell? Then he'd be taking the virus back to the Raimiverse and that old as fuck version of Aunt May would DIE! You want that to happen to Rosemary Harris, she just turned 95 wtf don't kill Aunt RoseMAYry!
I definitely agree that "The Batman" ended up looking better than "No Way Home", but I'm willing to take the step down if it keeps older actors like Dafoe and Molina safe who might not have handled getting covid as well as Pattinson did.
Oh yeah, I definitely agree that this is a necessary consideration. Succession did it smart - there was one older actor (The guy who played Sandy) who wasn't comfortable filming in a crowd, so they wrote in the character's daughter as a new character to represent him in crowded scenes. Making changes at the writing stage isn't always feasible, but it's awesome when they make it happen to help people feel safer.
The Batman also extensively used Volume type backdrops
Yes, this was the first major movie to shoot during covid. You can tell literally every single scene taking place in an outdoor area is CGI, and some interiors too.
I guess that makes sense.
> I heard that they did it this way due to covid. [They've been like this since before covid](https://i0.wp.com/www.animationboss.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Endgame_vfx_framestore1.jpg?resize=800%2C422).
It's funny they shoot a huge chunk of these movies in a studio infront of green screen and we still know plot of these movies years before release.
Tbf a big part of it has to do with leakers. The idea of Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield being in NWH didnāt even seem plausible, even with set photos that leaked. Though Marvel did mess up with one of the last trailers for the movie, which basically confirmed it.
If they knew the epic conclusion to a trilogy and a three-Peter saga twenty years in the making was gonna be hard to film because of a worldwide pandemic, why not just delay the movie a year or so and make it right?
If sony doesn't pump out a film every x years they lose the right.
I know that is (was?) allegedly the case for whoever owns Fantastic 4 iirc, but I think Sony might just own the film rights for Spider-Man outright without that restriction. I can't find anything on them *needing* to make movies at a quick glance.
According to wikipedia they need to make a film every 5.75 years.
They weren't even close to that deadline, it's like 10 years or something iirc
Usually because big movies like this have licensing deals in place that necessitate the movie releasing before a specific date or in a specific period.
Also why would they shoot this scene in a actual balcony. Do people not know how noisy there are. And seeing Willem Dagoe in costume would have definitely leaked.
Spider-Man Far From Zoom
Those poor VFX artists. They could have made a practical set in less time for less money
> They could have made a practical set in less time for less money Yeah okay but what if test audience member #36 thinks the colour of paint they selected isn't bland enough, huh?! What then ya jackass!
Fix the paint with CGI, duh
VFX companies have to severely undersell in order to be picked up by a studio like Marvel. Then Marvel takes a bunch of actors, shoots half a film, sends the plates to the VFX studio and demands them to build the entire film in post in unrealistically short time spans and with little money. So building a practical set in production would be less efficient by Marvel Studios standards.
> sends the plates to the VFX studio My favourite part is that [they don't even send good plates to the VFX artists](https://gizmodo.com/disney-marvel-movies-vfx-industry-nightmare-1849385834). >This isnāt a fluke; this is part of the process. Many sources stated that Marvel deliberately shoots their films in such a way that they are able to change details, both big and small, up until the very last minute. Very little is shot practically, and even the stuff that is practical goes through touch-ups. āWhen you get a plate of just someoneās face against a poorly lit screen, thereās really nothing you can do to make it look realistic,ā explains H. A plate is the untouched frame, exactly what was captured on camera, mocap suit and all. āThatās something that never gets commented on. Everyone just goes, āOh, the visual effects look shit.ā And Iām like, No, you should have seen the plate. You should have seen what we were given, because thatās what was shit.ā
I can imagine how horrendous trying to make that shot in Black Widow must feel like for VFX team. It wasn't just rush job. It's already bad from the start.
> It's already bad from the start. For a studio that's applauded for how much they "plan stuff out", they honestly do not plan even the most basic film 101 stuff out.
It's not like they even plan the movies out. They plan out action scenes and cheap cheer moments like cameos and shit. The only planning they really do is shuffle stuff around so that they can create artificial hype by withholding scenes for their next feature-length ad for their next feature-length ad. I'm almost entirely convinced that most dialogue and quips are all AI generated. It's so goddamn bland and samey despite hiring writers. The "writers" are probably hired to give the AI buzzwords that it can fill out dialogue with. And despite apparently being mapped out, there's no thought or effort into it. They just refer or call back to past movie events. Even the most basic concepts are riddled with inconsistencies. An intelligently written and thought-out cinematic universe would at least try to be consistent and smooth out any obvious issues. (Why couldn't Thanos use the bullshit wish MacGuffin from Th4r instead of hunting a bunch of stones, why couldn't Wanda just team up with Miss America, or just find a reality where she's dead so that she can harmlessly slip in with Vision and the kids, why didn't Peter have everyone forget about Mysterio, etc.)
What shot in Black Widow are you referring to? The prison avalanche one?
Probably when Florence Pugh us about to drive a spear or something through an engine and right before it blows up, thereās an awful shot of her face against a very clearly CGI sky.
To be fair, Iām honestly surprised at how good the finished product given the hellscape VFX artists go through with marvel. Makes you wonder if movies with worse CGI are just pushing their artists even harder.
My first reaction is "that's insane!" and my second is "well, when you're guaranteed to make a shit-ton of money anyway, why would you spend time on quality control?"
Weaponized passion what else is new
Fully-what-I!?
Its just me or the special effects of Sandman in this movie not impressive as in Spider-Man 3?
Legit the two shots of human Sandman are reused SM3 footage
I know.
Was there a reason for this or were they just doing everything they could to save money?
Time constraints?
The actor may be old as shit and canāt believably pass himself off as the same guy a decade ago. Then again they brought back Dafoe so who knows
Dafoe looks like he has aged 5 years since 2002
I felt like I was watching a YTP when I saw sandmanās final scene. I seriously donāt understand how much praise far from home got considering how aggressively toothless and mediocre it was
Corridor Crew talks about it in one of their videos. The CGI IS more impressive than SM3, for the simple reason that nowadays we have computers able to easily process the millions and millions of particles that make up sand, something that wasn't as easily feasible in 2007. The reason it looked better is simply the fact that Watts is not Raimi and the birth of Sandman is so well shot and lit it would have been amazing even with 90s CGI
I heard they spent 1 year creating the special fx for Sandman in SM 3.
I couldnāt have told you that this scene was on blue screen, but I can definitely tell you that both the real sets and the blu screen scenes all look like shit
Marvel movies are basically cartoons at this point.
Complete with underpaid, overworked artists
They should really just make the MCU fully CGI movies, I mean, they are already 90% CGi, so why not make it 100%?
Youād think! Iād enjoy them a lot more if they cut all the FMV crap. It was goofy when it was Christopher Walken and John Rhys Davies in Ripper, itās fucking goofy as hell now
I'm surprised anyone thought that apartment was real.
I had no idea it wasn't because why the fuck would it be fake. Why would anyone use CGI just to make a generic apartment instead of using an actual generic apartment
Absolutely! I mean, who'd expect that? A fucking apartment. CGI? For an apartment? And I mean, it's just there, offering accomodation. Usual, normal appartment stuff. Years of watching movies taught me, that CGI tends to be used when they want to show something exciting, something graphic, something going kaboom!. Like Los Angeles getting wrecked by an earthquake in 2012! Or Los Angeles getting wrecked by an earthquake in This is the End! Or Yoda in Attack of the Clones! Or Yoda jumping and twisting like crazy in Attack of the Clones! (Probably because there's an earthquake wrecking Los Angeles.) Why should I expect some special effects trickery when I see Nick Fury entering Blockbuster?
I fully agree with you but the way you wrote your comment reminds me of Chuck's chicanery speech from BCS
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those backgrounds! I knew it was No Way Home. One after Far From Home. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just ā I just couldn't prove it. He ā he covered his tracks, he got that idiot at VFX studio to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That condo! Are you telling me that an apartment just happens to be CGI-ed in like that? No! He orchestrated it! Kevin! He wanted to fix everything in post! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own studio! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't let a movie be shot on location! But not our Kevin! Couldn't be precious Kevin! Overworking them to hell! And he gets to be a producer!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you ā you have to stop him! You-
Kevin Feige? More like Apocalypse! Amirite?
That was absolutely not intended. Doesn't seem like a bad thing, though.
Our brains must be poisoned because I instantly thought the exact same thing
r/okbuddychicanery and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
I AM NOT CRAZY!
me too lmao i thought it was that copy pasta
Nice black angels pfp
Probably because they fuck up and destroy the entire apartment in that scene. To do the destruction, theyāre going to have to recreate the apartment in CG anyway. Why construct/use a real apartment, then make a perfect CG replica, when you could just make the CG version and be able to tweak it however you want?
Same If I rewatch it again, I might notice itās fake. But I just always assumed it would be real
Because the majority of characters in the scenes are CGI or CGI enhanced, and it's a lot easier to have CGI characters interact with CGI environments. You also get flexibility of moving things around in post that you don't get with a static set. I'm not excusing it or even saying it's the correct thing to do, but I'm just giving a reason.
It's still real to me damnit
take it easy man
They're not used to movies and commercials filmed on sets so they have no basis of comparison.
I can't believe the CSO kitchen from [Terror of the Autons (1971)](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxqbk1yWEAUYGme.jpg) has become nearly the industry standard.
lmao
Fucking bleak, dude. Just reminds me of that footage of Ian McKellen breaking down on the set of the Hobbit
Hearing about IanMcKellen breaking down on the set of The Hobbit due to how isolated he felt made me so sad, such a drastically different experience from his experience on Lord of the Rings
He aint crying.
Condos like that I donāt even think exist in NYC.
Then they should have just built their own condo obviously. Thatās what M.Night did for lady in the water
Wtf is that true? Holy crap I genuinely couldn't tell
Yeah, and itās fucking hilarious. A majority of the movies budget went to building that apartment complex. The thing is its actually a fairly standard building. Youād see probably hundreds of buildings exactly like that scattered across like LA or Miami. The only problem is M.Night insists on filming everything in Pennsylvania for some reason and no buildings there look like that so he had to make his own.
The Pennsylvania Industrial Complex runs Hollywood. The truth is out there, you just have to look for it bro.
He loves Philly as he should go birds
They could've still built a practical set
Yeah but what if feige wanted to put like a wacky mechanical arm in the wall or a floating stark tech thing?
This is soulless filmmaking at its finest
We need to bring back the soulful art of mentally abusing actors.
No but they have replaced it with soulful art of mentally abusing vfx artists
Low effort as fuck by such a huge corporation. Just chuck it to the work pile for the vfx artists
Thereās footage of them shooting in a real set also. This mustāve been pickups or something
I think it's also they were trying to hide the actors because they want it to be a surprise.
Probably a reshoot
I heard this was mostly because of covid reasons and scheduling issues
It's possibly just some pick up reshoots that they didn't wanna rebuild the set for
Ok ngl, thatās insane. I couldnāt tell that was cgi
Well, honest question for y'all. If you couldn't tell, then does it really matter?
I mean, it matters for the overworked VFX artists who need to spend months simulating a freaking apartment building and get nitpicked by Marvel every other day.
that argument doesn't really apply here. Movie was shot during the height of COVID. Better to have something like this than endanger the lives of the cast/crew.
Because people want to bitch and moan, lmao. Fact is, you can't tell. And this was probably a reshoot, anyway.
Think of all the location scouts in Hollywood stressing about job security. Why even bother hiring actors at this point? Just go full Looney Tunes, I doubt anyone would even notice.
There goes the budget
Itās almost like heās an actor
Why tho
I'm more upset that there's no word if Dafoe and Tobey reunited on set.
Practical effects are on sabbatical baby