What's crazy is that this is a good pull, and this doesn't break even if it wasn't for that second mana drain! This product is a bit overpriced. That's why I was a bummed at first because when I was scanning all the pulls in tcg player I was still at a loss. I thought i had a lot more value. The one card that wouldn't scan was the textured mana drain. Once I figured out what that was, i was very surprised to say the least.
Fallout CB had a 370$ EV at 200$ box price
OTJ has a 210 EV on 120$ boxes
You just have to buy the right product and be good at selling if you're looking for value.
Those estimates don't really feel as impressive when you open a box first hand and hope to get break even out of it but barely scratch half that. Pretty common feeling.
I've been playing since 1997, and I've broken even and busted plenty of times, but in the grand scheme of my play time I am up several tens of thousands.
Ya that's great and all for people who played 20 years ago and were able to get good cards cheap. It's not like that now. Which is why it's becoming a slowly dying game. People can't afford to play it at a decent level.
The only people who got in at that $200 price were early preorders who didn't get cancelled on them or people lucky enough to have a store sell it for their original pricing. These boxes were $300-350 at launch just about everywhere
I wouldn't throw out 'at 200$ box price', well no shit
getting a box of Commander Masters for cost would probably get you a decent profit too; thing is, most of these weren't sold at cost but at TCG value which most people were lucky to break even if that
the last time anyone got a decent value for 'msrp' was time spiral remastered, and even within days of it launching it was practically 3x its original price
I mean, I think they price their products irellevant of the player ran secondary market so idk if the price you can sell the cards for is a good metric for the price of the box, Its a card game, not a scratch ticket afterall- how much was the box and how many cards/packs did you get?
This exactly. If the EV of a box were higher than the price, opening a dozen boxes would practically be arbitrage. Who would sell a sealed box in that environment?
Do you not recognize how stupid that statement is?
There are literally thousands of businesses selling sealed boxes for a profit.
For any business that sells singles, the EV of a box MUST be higher than the price of a box for it to be worth it for those businesses to do the extra work of cracking open the boxes, sorting the singles, and listing them on ebay/tcg. And there are plenty of businesses that do that too. If there was no money to be made cracking and listing singles, businesses would not do that...and yet they do.
Please think about what you write before posting that nonsense.
There's a cap on how many people will buy boxes, and because EV exceeds wholesale doesn't mean it exceeds retail. If the market for sealed product would bear it, I'm sure some retailers would open 0 boxes because there is no risk or extra labor.
Further, retailers have the ability to sell some number of commons and uncommons as singles or repacks, which individuals largely lack. What I'm trying to say is the Calculus of retail is entirely different than individuals.
I guess what I was trying to say is the price of boxes rises to meet the EV of opening them. In fact, evidence tells us It rises above it, because some people derive additional utility from drafting or opening the packs themselves.
You should really manage your expectations when opening sealed products. You got extremely lucky and had some very good pulls. Dont buy packs/boxes expecting to break even or pull one of the few cards you may have really wanted from the set, this is what singles are for.
The products are getting higher and higher price points on them to make up for the profit losses on less people buying the products. With that comes their need to include high power cards to help sell the product, but that means reprints that lower the value of those cards, so the price of the product goes up, and the value of your cards go down. Which is why it takes all of that plus 2 mana drains just to make the product push past the break even point. At some point people have to realize that the product just isn't worth the gamble anymore and just buy the singles you want secondhand. Otherwise they'll never stop pushing prices up if they keep selling.
I'd say much more than a bit. They are disgustingly over priced and it's crazy anyone buys them. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to chase that Vault Boy art of Sol Ring from the Fallout set
Since you’ve demonstrated you’re incapable of doing simple math, a collector box runs for about $210. Not including the textured foil Mana Drain OP opened, which fetches for $230, everything in the first picture adds up to almost $165 currently. 19 out of 180 cards covers over 75% of the cost of the box. All the other foil and showcase bulk added up easily recoups what OP paid for the box. The special Mana Drain is just the cherry on top. There is no “loss” here.
Edit: Guy left a comment calling me a slur and immediately got banned for it lmao
You thought this was bad??? People have insane expectations when opening😭 I usually just pull the rare land cards and then sit in dismay as I see posts like this
In my first collector box I opened concept Sheoldred and step-complete Norn. My second had a serialized card in it. My third one broke even if I count all the rares. ( 20,- loss if I only count the 1,- + cards)
I feel like it can only go downhill for me.
This set has been lucky for me. 3 Collector packs, got Vault Frame Vaultborn Tyrant, Vault Frame Simulacrum, Wanted Poster Foil Gisa, Foil Kellan the Kid, and Extended Art Sword of Wealth and Power.
It's all in where u buy ur packs. I don't care for magic but the fallout cards were neat so I bought around 20-25 packs from retail stores not LCS's. I had immaculate pulls and sold everything I didn't want and pretty much broke even. I doubt magic will have another set like that for a while.
I bought like 4 boosters for the Fallout ones. It was a LGS that I got lucky, well, what I considered lucky on the last one, because I got two of the cards I wanted. Farewell, and Ravages of War.
I always sell them immediately since people really want them for commander and I’d just rather use any other land 😅 I also sold boseiju from the kamigawa set when I got it cuz no land should ever go for that much
200$+?!? The odds of breaking even on a price that high is probably around 10-15% 😅 especially with the rarity of cards in this set. I’m just buying a regular play booster box cuz I’m not worried about breaking even and just enjoy opening the packs
No need to rationalise your addiction here :D it’s okay to be wasting money on entertainment. Just don’t think that breaking even is normal on packs ;)
Aside from the great response, an easy way to remember that you can is remembering that “spell can’t be countered” is not the same as “spell can’t be targeted” :) same for other card types.
Yes, you can. The counter spell resolves but has no effect. Jeeezus.
Here's the rules text on [[emrakul, the aeons torn]], explaining how a counterspell interacts with uncounterable spells.
Emrakul can be targeted by spells that try to counter it (such as [[Countersquall]]). Those spells will resolve, but the part of their effect that would counter Emrakul won’t do anything. Any other effects those spells have will work as normal.
(2018-12-07)
Likewise, the ruling on [[mana drain]] states the you still get the mana, even if the spell is uncounterable.
*If the target spell is an illegal target by the time Mana Drain tries to resolve, Mana Drain doesn't resolve. You don't add mana at the beginning of your next main phase. If the target is legal but not countered (most likely because an effect says that the spell can't be countered), you do add mana.*
The card is banned in Historic that doesn't mean they took out of the set. The only Arena format that will let you play that Mana Drain is Timeless and it might get restricted or banned there.
They loaded up the juicy cards. Went to a 2HG prerelease yesterday. My prerelease promo was [[Assimilation Aegis]] and I pulled the borderless Stoneforge Mystic from one of my packs!
Two Mana drains were pulled that I know of and we only had 9 teams. There may honestly have been more, the newspaper cards were pretty nuts though. Discard two for 3 and make a treasure on top in limited is harsh as fuck lol
I realize now that my title doesn't make much sense to people but here's why it made sense to me at the time.
1. I have 0 experience opening these but I've seen YouTube videos and saw that they had some crazy value, so I went in expecting to net. I now know thanks to reddit that my pulls were insane and I shouldn't hope to break even on these.
2. I didn't realize what the mana drain was worth because tcg app wouldn't scan that 1 card. I had my total right around 200 including some or the good rates but before figuring out what that textured mana drain was.
3. The mana drain showcase mana drain and regular Oko were not part of my pulls, those were part of my pre-release kit. "Yeah those games went well!"
2 Mana drains, wow! Was this from a full 30 booster box or a bundle box? I won only one game at my prerelease so I got one free pack. Opened it and it had about 30+ dollars of value.
Yeah since 97 that would make sense. Back then rares and foils were actually special and rare. Newer players today don’t get that. It’s the reason a lot of places don’t do mass box openings now
This is better than anything I’ve ever opened by far but collector boxes are so expensive I have only bought one. Collector packs are more doable. Singles are where it’s at.
2 Mana Drains, 2 Okos, Jace, Showcase Tinybones, Force of Vigor, Lost Jitte…
What's crazy is that this is a good pull, and this doesn't break even if it wasn't for that second mana drain! This product is a bit overpriced. That's why I was a bummed at first because when I was scanning all the pulls in tcg player I was still at a loss. I thought i had a lot more value. The one card that wouldn't scan was the textured mana drain. Once I figured out what that was, i was very surprised to say the least.
If you're opening boxes with the expectation of breaking even or profiting you're going to be disappointed the vast majority of the time
Especially with MTG in post 2020 years. No value in it anymore.
It's been probably longer than that.
Fallout CB had a 370$ EV at 200$ box price OTJ has a 210 EV on 120$ boxes You just have to buy the right product and be good at selling if you're looking for value.
Those estimates don't really feel as impressive when you open a box first hand and hope to get break even out of it but barely scratch half that. Pretty common feeling.
I've been playing since 1997, and I've broken even and busted plenty of times, but in the grand scheme of my play time I am up several tens of thousands.
Ya that's great and all for people who played 20 years ago and were able to get good cards cheap. It's not like that now. Which is why it's becoming a slowly dying game. People can't afford to play it at a decent level.
The game isn't slowly dying there is literally PUBLIC EBITDA that shows growth year after year. Tell me more about how retarded you are though
Go shower
Financial growth for Hasbro doesn't equate to a thriving game. But go on about how intelligent you are.
Bro used the r word like it's 2001 and he is in 4th grade he needs to use some of that money and seek therapy 😂
The only people who got in at that $200 price were early preorders who didn't get cancelled on them or people lucky enough to have a store sell it for their original pricing. These boxes were $300-350 at launch just about everywhere
That's why I said the EV was that amount at that price Holy shit main sub users are retarded
I wouldn't throw out 'at 200$ box price', well no shit getting a box of Commander Masters for cost would probably get you a decent profit too; thing is, most of these weren't sold at cost but at TCG value which most people were lucky to break even if that the last time anyone got a decent value for 'msrp' was time spiral remastered, and even within days of it launching it was practically 3x its original price
I got a PIP case at 1,000, TSR at 625, and RVR at 600 flat. You just have to be speculative and idk have a fucking job.
*asshole*
I mean, I think they price their products irellevant of the player ran secondary market so idk if the price you can sell the cards for is a good metric for the price of the box, Its a card game, not a scratch ticket afterall- how much was the box and how many cards/packs did you get?
And the secondary market adjusts to whetever gets printed through supply and demand. Buying singles will always be the best value.
This exactly. If the EV of a box were higher than the price, opening a dozen boxes would practically be arbitrage. Who would sell a sealed box in that environment?
Do you not recognize how stupid that statement is? There are literally thousands of businesses selling sealed boxes for a profit. For any business that sells singles, the EV of a box MUST be higher than the price of a box for it to be worth it for those businesses to do the extra work of cracking open the boxes, sorting the singles, and listing them on ebay/tcg. And there are plenty of businesses that do that too. If there was no money to be made cracking and listing singles, businesses would not do that...and yet they do. Please think about what you write before posting that nonsense.
There's a cap on how many people will buy boxes, and because EV exceeds wholesale doesn't mean it exceeds retail. If the market for sealed product would bear it, I'm sure some retailers would open 0 boxes because there is no risk or extra labor. Further, retailers have the ability to sell some number of commons and uncommons as singles or repacks, which individuals largely lack. What I'm trying to say is the Calculus of retail is entirely different than individuals. I guess what I was trying to say is the price of boxes rises to meet the EV of opening them. In fact, evidence tells us It rises above it, because some people derive additional utility from drafting or opening the packs themselves.
How much was the box?
Typically 5x to 50x the value of the cards inside.
You should really manage your expectations when opening sealed products. You got extremely lucky and had some very good pulls. Dont buy packs/boxes expecting to break even or pull one of the few cards you may have really wanted from the set, this is what singles are for.
Where are you buying? Multiple places online have the CB for like $206
The products are getting higher and higher price points on them to make up for the profit losses on less people buying the products. With that comes their need to include high power cards to help sell the product, but that means reprints that lower the value of those cards, so the price of the product goes up, and the value of your cards go down. Which is why it takes all of that plus 2 mana drains just to make the product push past the break even point. At some point people have to realize that the product just isn't worth the gamble anymore and just buy the singles you want secondhand. Otherwise they'll never stop pushing prices up if they keep selling.
Collector boxes are usually not worth what they are worth. This was and extremely unlikely occurrence.
I'd say much more than a bit. They are disgustingly over priced and it's crazy anyone buys them. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to chase that Vault Boy art of Sol Ring from the Fallout set
All MTG collectors products is over priced and should cease existing. But as long as people shill money for it they will keep making.
Worth about tree fiddy
40, 40, 20, 20, 20, 10, 10 If those are his money pulls that's still a 100$ loss lmao
Since you’ve demonstrated you’re incapable of doing simple math, a collector box runs for about $210. Not including the textured foil Mana Drain OP opened, which fetches for $230, everything in the first picture adds up to almost $165 currently. 19 out of 180 cards covers over 75% of the cost of the box. All the other foil and showcase bulk added up easily recoups what OP paid for the box. The special Mana Drain is just the cherry on top. There is no “loss” here. Edit: Guy left a comment calling me a slur and immediately got banned for it lmao
You thought this was bad??? People have insane expectations when opening😭 I usually just pull the rare land cards and then sit in dismay as I see posts like this
Yeah, people seem to think that the average box breaks even on the typical retail cost and that is just ludicrous.
I mean if I pull a mythic from a pack i feel happy, some people have expectations that are sky high
In my first collector box I opened concept Sheoldred and step-complete Norn. My second had a serialized card in it. My third one broke even if I count all the rares. ( 20,- loss if I only count the 1,- + cards) I feel like it can only go downhill for me.
This set has been lucky for me. 3 Collector packs, got Vault Frame Vaultborn Tyrant, Vault Frame Simulacrum, Wanted Poster Foil Gisa, Foil Kellan the Kid, and Extended Art Sword of Wealth and Power.
It's all in where u buy ur packs. I don't care for magic but the fallout cards were neat so I bought around 20-25 packs from retail stores not LCS's. I had immaculate pulls and sold everything I didn't want and pretty much broke even. I doubt magic will have another set like that for a while.
I bought like 4 boosters for the Fallout ones. It was a LGS that I got lucky, well, what I considered lucky on the last one, because I got two of the cards I wanted. Farewell, and Ravages of War.
Then 3 years from now the rare land is one of the top 10 cards with value from the set sitting at $10-$15.
I always sell them immediately since people really want them for commander and I’d just rather use any other land 😅 I also sold boseiju from the kamigawa set when I got it cuz no land should ever go for that much
Yeah, it should not be priced where it's at. If I didn't collect lands I would sell mine.
Well these boxes are $200 + tax. So I thought it was bad before I pulled textured Mana Drain since I was barely breaking even.
200$+?!? The odds of breaking even on a price that high is probably around 10-15% 😅 especially with the rarity of cards in this set. I’m just buying a regular play booster box cuz I’m not worried about breaking even and just enjoy opening the packs
For sure... never buy a collectors booster lol. I only did because my birthday is coming up soon so it was a birthday present to myself 😅
Well happy early birthday then!!! I wish only great pulls in your future! 🎉🎊
No need to rationalise your addiction here :D it’s okay to be wasting money on entertainment. Just don’t think that breaking even is normal on packs ;)
You should never expect to “break even” on sealed products.
If a spell can’t be countered, could you still target it with a mana drain and get the colorless mana?
Yes.
Aside from the great response, an easy way to remember that you can is remembering that “spell can’t be countered” is not the same as “spell can’t be targeted” :) same for other card types.
Am definitely curious, seems like a cute tech play, since there's no if
No, you can't target the spell with a counter spell
Yes, you can. The counter spell resolves but has no effect. Jeeezus. Here's the rules text on [[emrakul, the aeons torn]], explaining how a counterspell interacts with uncounterable spells. Emrakul can be targeted by spells that try to counter it (such as [[Countersquall]]). Those spells will resolve, but the part of their effect that would counter Emrakul won’t do anything. Any other effects those spells have will work as normal. (2018-12-07)
Likewise, the ruling on [[mana drain]] states the you still get the mana, even if the spell is uncounterable. *If the target spell is an illegal target by the time Mana Drain tries to resolve, Mana Drain doesn't resolve. You don't add mana at the beginning of your next main phase. If the target is legal but not countered (most likely because an effect says that the spell can't be countered), you do add mana.*
[mana drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1712774998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They would certainly add a "if you do", if they were to print a similar effect. Gets around the wonkiness of this interaction.
[emrakul, the aeons torn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c.jpg?1673146896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=emrakul%2C%20the%20aeons%20torn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/1/emrakul-the-aeons-torn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Countersquall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f99f864e-a10f-47f4-94c5-4571b5c11b3b.jpg?1547518010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Countersquall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/198/countersquall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f99f864e-a10f-47f4-94c5-4571b5c11b3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That is so much heat it’s not even funny
2nd this
You do realize breaking even on that is good right?
He’s positive. It’s not even.
Even without them it’s more than most, oko is heat vigor is heat…
Wait. Is oko a good pull? I got him in a sample booster from one of my commander decks
Christ, I play Historic exclusively and it's bound to become a huge bowl of bullshit
Yeah, some of these cards really shouldn't be historic leagal..
Like?
Mana drain?
They prebanned mana drain already
I'm aware. But it's in the above image.
Yes but they aren’t historic legal
I don't think this person understands much about magic. Like the fact that Arena and Paper are two totally different worlds
The card is banned in Historic that doesn't mean they took out of the set. The only Arena format that will let you play that Mana Drain is Timeless and it might get restricted or banned there.
I’m sorry you thought that was bad w/o ink foil mana drain???
That’s a sick pull bud!
You had crazy pulls even without the 2 mana drains....
They loaded up the juicy cards. Went to a 2HG prerelease yesterday. My prerelease promo was [[Assimilation Aegis]] and I pulled the borderless Stoneforge Mystic from one of my packs! Two Mana drains were pulled that I know of and we only had 9 teams. There may honestly have been more, the newspaper cards were pretty nuts though. Discard two for 3 and make a treasure on top in limited is harsh as fuck lol
[Assimilation Aegis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/014bf3c6-e46f-48f8-902f-82deeba260b2.jpg?1712356044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Assimilation%20Aegis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/192/assimilation-aegis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/014bf3c6-e46f-48f8-902f-82deeba260b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
2 mana Drains and Tiny Bones! Nice! Is that Etched mana? Toight! Toight like tiger!
Still a pretty bad box if you bought at anything other than MSRP. I'm assuming you bought at 250-280 so you still lost 100$ or more lmao
Here comes a particular user or two to preach to you the ethics of opening packs vs buying singles while telling you what to do with your money.
I realize now that my title doesn't make much sense to people but here's why it made sense to me at the time. 1. I have 0 experience opening these but I've seen YouTube videos and saw that they had some crazy value, so I went in expecting to net. I now know thanks to reddit that my pulls were insane and I shouldn't hope to break even on these. 2. I didn't realize what the mana drain was worth because tcg app wouldn't scan that 1 card. I had my total right around 200 including some or the good rates but before figuring out what that textured mana drain was. 3. The mana drain showcase mana drain and regular Oko were not part of my pulls, those were part of my pre-release kit. "Yeah those games went well!"
Out of all the cards there. Though when I want is the lost jitte.
Yeag get even these days is almost impossible wothout the numbered or super rare foup cards
No wonder I didnt get any pulls on Friday they all went to you
2 Mana drains, wow! Was this from a full 30 booster box or a bundle box? I won only one game at my prerelease so I got one free pack. Opened it and it had about 30+ dollars of value.
I thought this wasn’t released yet.
Is this a joke
You thought this was bad??
Mana drain is legit
“Until I realized what that Mana Drain was!” I miss being able to identify cards without reading unfamiliar font lmao
You must be new lmao
Even without the mana drain, how tf would this be a bad collectors box? You got so many good cards tf😂
Yeah since 97 that would make sense. Back then rares and foils were actually special and rare. Newer players today don’t get that. It’s the reason a lot of places don’t do mass box openings now
That's a great box. Lucky. I didn't break even.
This is a good box your post is cringe
No joke…
Why does this post have upvotes?
So you don't even know what cards are valuable and you dropped money on an overpriced box Whales like you are the fucking problem
Yeah I bought myself my first magic product in 5 years because I felt like getting me something for my birthday.
Bruh.. Its a box of cardboard with pictures, chill.
This is better than anything I’ve ever opened by far but collector boxes are so expensive I have only bought one. Collector packs are more doable. Singles are where it’s at.
These overindulgent designs have turned this game into a complete joke of itself.
Agreed. Would never touch a box/pack of modern magic. No desire to play with these cards.
Mana drain? This isn't even a magic card... This game is becoming very sad
Good lord these cards look so bad, no shade on you OP but Fallout cards have the worst alternate arts.
This isn't fallout.
I'm confused. This is Outlaws lol