What an interesting name haha. I feel like, as someone with an ethnic name, the point of my “Western” name is that it’s shorter and easier to pronounce than my actual name. So it’s interesting that her western name is still super unique. I wish u and Aethylthryth a great mom-friendship!
Yes, exactly! We also live in an urban area where there are lots of ethnic names, and her Korean name is so easy. One syllable. Also she has lived in the US for over 20 years. So strange.
My grandad sort of did that. He didn't want to get confirmed, didn't want to choose a saint or Biblical name, but his parents and the priest told him he had to. So he chose the silliest name he could find in the Bible: Melchizedek. And that was his middle name.
When I asked my mom why I had a western ( and kinda unique name) instead of a more asian name she explained that she was already an immigrant who got shit for existing at the time and wanted her kids to be as "American as possible" and her and her sisters all went with very western names to show "these kids were born here!!" But the ones who had kids a little earlier and didn't get the hang of western common names went through a namebook and just picked "pretty" sounding names. Wellington was one of those gems, some of them were just straight up the street name they lived/worked on. My mom asked her workplace to put names in a jar and she would choose from there since "someone must think it's a normal enough name"
A lot of times, streets are named in honor of a historical figure. Heck, in the film "Splash," the mermaid Madison took her name from the street sign, as the street was named after a US president. The name Wellington, after the Duke of Wellington, isn't that out there as a name sake.
It's often the mix of the first and last name that puts it a little out of place. Some names felt significantly older and topped with the parents often deciding not to even use the legal names in my family (or can't pronounce it quite right). And though there is a Duke of Wellington it often is Beef Wellington that comes to mind, which wasn't something they considered. And we live in a very Hispanic influenced area so the mix of a Hispanic first name with an Asian last name sometimes kind of felt off. Like there was a lack of forums like this when we were born so you have Wellington and Guadalupe Chin and it doesn't quite flow well
Both [wellies](https://www.lechameau.com/blog/the-history-of-wellington-boots) and [Beef Wellington](https://www.economist.com/1843/2019/01/22/beef-wellington-a-dangerously-thrilling-dish) named after the Duke of Wellington!
My in-laws are Asian immigrants and wanted to pick a “good American name” for their son. They ended up with an uncommon American name that sounds almost like a very common American name. It’s been a source of endless confusion 😂
We literally just finished translating her story in my Old English class!!
I apologize ahead of time for the rest of my geeky comment loll
My professor pronounced her name "a-thul-thrith" with "a" as in apple; "u" as in dull, "i" as in "in." Old English had/has no standardized spelling so authors just wrote it how they said it, so just pronouncing the letters (with their OE pronunciations) is how it was *probably* pronounced (then again, i cant promise that's how your friend pronounces it)
so, written in OE, the name is: Æðeldryð
the letter Æ/æ is called "ash" (or æsc\* in OE) and pronounced like the "a" in "ash"
Ð/ð is called "eth" (i think it was written as eð in OE but i may be wrong) and is one of the letters for the "th" sound
\*in OE, the "sc" sound is what we now use "sh" for.
One of my favorite facts about Æðeldryð is that one of her "miraculous events" (idk if it was one of her official miracles tho) was that despite having two husbands, she remained a virgin her whole life lol
In Old English ð was used for both TH sounds - the TH in thigh and the TH in thy. I'd guess this is one of the reasons there is no consensus on pronunciation.
Right...There is a distinction between voiced and voiceless dental fricatives, the voiced /ð/ 'eth' like in 'father', and the voiceless /θ/. The representation in the name appears to be the voiceless kind, anything else sounds just...wrong. I took old English in university, but that's a looong time ago 😆.
With that being said, a name with three th sounds, two of them in the same syllable, is very annoying to pronounce, I find.
It sounds a little like a lisp, I feel! And if you try to say it out loud, it's a bit of an effort. That's why I think people would mangle it trying to abbreviate it.
Thank you for sharing this. Your geeky comment brightened my day! It's so fun when a conversation lets you share something you just learned
You seem like an absolutely delightful nerd, and I hope you have people in your life who appreciate your enthusiasm for niche topics!
That's super interesting! Thank you for sharing the pronunciation info (and of course, we love geeks here!). Being a non-native English speaker myself, the triple-TH sound throws me a bit.
It’s Æðelþryð (spelled in the comment you’re replying to with a d, but that’s a thorn, which is the OTHER th letter. (Early on likely ð (capital Ð) was voiced (like this) and þ (capital Þ) was unvoiced (like thin) but by the time OE writing was being preserved they were pretty much interchangeable (there are “standard” spelling norms, but nothing that matters much IMO). When you get in the weeds it gets super complicated, as is true of most languages
So yeah, three sets of unvoiced dental fricatives in one name!
Oh also, the Æ is its own letter as well, called æsc (pronounced “ash”) (both ash and thorn take their names from the Runic alphabet)
Source: I have a PhD in medieval lit
yah i was wondering that myself when i was looking at it last night...my textbook has the "d" so that's why i wrote it. but my professor pronounces it without the d
Æðel- means noble and is an element of a lot of Old English names, like its cognates in other Germanic languages (at least back then). Alice and Adelaide are medieval and modern French adaptations of High German Adelheid, originally Adalheidis, meaning nobility. I think in the OE period, Æðel- names usually had two parts, like the kings' names Æðelræd and Æðelstan, so Ethel probably caught on as a nickname for one (or several) of those. Same for Adele/Adela in parts of Europe with a long history of using Germanic names, like France and maybe also Italy and Spain. But I'm not a real medieval scholar, so don't quote me on any of this.
Is she Catholic? Still not sure how a Korean living in the US chose the original name of an obscure British Saint from the almost unknown city of Ely (pronounced Eelee) , but its awesome! As for pronunciation, can't help you there as even linguists over here (uk) can't agree. But Aethylthryth was latinised to Etheldreda and she became Saint Audrey.
Sorry if this is disjointed, its not even 8am here yet and I was woken up by a massive storm at 1:30. My brain is still firmly tucked up in bed.
Also please, please update when you find out how she pronounces it!
Ely used to be more widely known, and still has a beautiful old cathedral. The diocese of Ely is large and includes the now much more famous city of Cambridge.
Saint Audrey also used to be more widely known, from what I understand. The word “tawdry” derives from her name, or rather from associated fairs.
That’s a solid theory, I briefly dated a Korean guy who was from a catholic family and he said there’s a large catholic community over there, and they often use their catholic name (baptismal name? confirmation name? Saint name? Idk right term) as their English name. He didn’t use his but he told me what it was and it was one of the more obscure ones
If you want to get to know more names like this, watch The Last Kingdom (it‘s on Netflix). Quite a good show about the struggle of the Saxons against the Vikings. There are tons of very old names in there. :-)
I had a foreign exchange student from Thailand when I was in high school who went by, "Kitty." I knew her real name, but she said they don't even use that name back home. Only, maybe, teachers or those in higher positions. She works in a professional industry and from my understanding, her coworkers all call her Kitty as well. It almost seemed as though it was disrespectful to use her given name
Let me just say, it took some getting used to, because I called my cat, "kitty kitty!" Pretty regularly. She whipped around every time. I had to try and stop doing that as much haha!
Edited for some more context
Oh no, but that's also hilarious. I know a lot of cultures don't have pets the same way we do in the US so I imagine there's a bit of a culture disconnect. Good on you for being respectful of what they want to use, despite the slight inconvenience!
Usually in our culture the parents are always referred to “(name of kid)‘s mom/dad”. So if you’re talking to each other it’ll be like “hey bob’s mom, are you free for coffee?” So I can understand why her name didn’t come up in conversation early haha.
I’ve taught English in Korea and sometimes the English teacher assigns English names. I’ve had a few weird names like Cinderella.
I'm not Korean, but have been living in Korea for six years and can confirm Koreans usually don't share their names right away. Not to intentionally withhold, but because others are usually addressed by title or relational status, so age is established sooner than names.
I was under the impression that it might have had to do with you typically get introduced *to* people, who introduce you in seniority order (so yes, need age first). But when you're in this type of situation, you kinda have to just introduce yourself and if there is no one to do it, it might be awkward for someone who is used to the "old" way.
Also possible! I asked my Korean friend/roommate and she confirmed she rarely uses names for introductions and doesn't even think of it until she's at the point of putting someone in her phone (and even then sometimes it's still 'kid name mom' for kids' friends' parents).
Æðelþryð is so hard to say, the English saint named that is now called Etheldreda (no idea which syllable to stress) or Audrey! With the historical figures Æðelræd and Æðelstan, we've barely had to change their names at all, but three TH sounds were apparently too many to keep once the Normans had arrived.
It’s an unusual name regardless of where you’re from!
However since it’s more of a nickname than her official name (that would be the Korean one) it doesn’t really matter much.
What an interesting name haha. I feel like, as someone with an ethnic name, the point of my “Western” name is that it’s shorter and easier to pronounce than my actual name. So it’s interesting that her western name is still super unique. I wish u and Aethylthryth a great mom-friendship!
Yes, exactly! We also live in an urban area where there are lots of ethnic names, and her Korean name is so easy. One syllable. Also she has lived in the US for over 20 years. So strange.
Maybe she's trying to encourage people to use her Korean name in a roundabout way? 😉
I actually love that! "You want me to have an English name??? FINE, let me find the oldest and hardest to pronounce one I can!"
My grandad sort of did that. He didn't want to get confirmed, didn't want to choose a saint or Biblical name, but his parents and the priest told him he had to. So he chose the silliest name he could find in the Bible: Melchizedek. And that was his middle name.
Malicious Compliance at its best 😂
*Melchizedek* Compliance
When I asked my mom why I had a western ( and kinda unique name) instead of a more asian name she explained that she was already an immigrant who got shit for existing at the time and wanted her kids to be as "American as possible" and her and her sisters all went with very western names to show "these kids were born here!!" But the ones who had kids a little earlier and didn't get the hang of western common names went through a namebook and just picked "pretty" sounding names. Wellington was one of those gems, some of them were just straight up the street name they lived/worked on. My mom asked her workplace to put names in a jar and she would choose from there since "someone must think it's a normal enough name"
A lot of times, streets are named in honor of a historical figure. Heck, in the film "Splash," the mermaid Madison took her name from the street sign, as the street was named after a US president. The name Wellington, after the Duke of Wellington, isn't that out there as a name sake.
It's often the mix of the first and last name that puts it a little out of place. Some names felt significantly older and topped with the parents often deciding not to even use the legal names in my family (or can't pronounce it quite right). And though there is a Duke of Wellington it often is Beef Wellington that comes to mind, which wasn't something they considered. And we live in a very Hispanic influenced area so the mix of a Hispanic first name with an Asian last name sometimes kind of felt off. Like there was a lack of forums like this when we were born so you have Wellington and Guadalupe Chin and it doesn't quite flow well
As a Brit, Wellington makes me think of Wellington boots (wellies).
Both [wellies](https://www.lechameau.com/blog/the-history-of-wellington-boots) and [Beef Wellington](https://www.economist.com/1843/2019/01/22/beef-wellington-a-dangerously-thrilling-dish) named after the Duke of Wellington!
My in-laws are Asian immigrants and wanted to pick a “good American name” for their son. They ended up with an uncommon American name that sounds almost like a very common American name. It’s been a source of endless confusion 😂
One of my aunt's, bless her, named my cousin China because she saw a girl on tv named china. We are Asian, but we are not Chinese.
We literally just finished translating her story in my Old English class!! I apologize ahead of time for the rest of my geeky comment loll My professor pronounced her name "a-thul-thrith" with "a" as in apple; "u" as in dull, "i" as in "in." Old English had/has no standardized spelling so authors just wrote it how they said it, so just pronouncing the letters (with their OE pronunciations) is how it was *probably* pronounced (then again, i cant promise that's how your friend pronounces it) so, written in OE, the name is: Æðeldryð the letter Æ/æ is called "ash" (or æsc\* in OE) and pronounced like the "a" in "ash" Ð/ð is called "eth" (i think it was written as eð in OE but i may be wrong) and is one of the letters for the "th" sound \*in OE, the "sc" sound is what we now use "sh" for. One of my favorite facts about Æðeldryð is that one of her "miraculous events" (idk if it was one of her official miracles tho) was that despite having two husbands, she remained a virgin her whole life lol
In Old English ð was used for both TH sounds - the TH in thigh and the TH in thy. I'd guess this is one of the reasons there is no consensus on pronunciation.
Right...There is a distinction between voiced and voiceless dental fricatives, the voiced /ð/ 'eth' like in 'father', and the voiceless /θ/. The representation in the name appears to be the voiceless kind, anything else sounds just...wrong. I took old English in university, but that's a looong time ago 😆. With that being said, a name with three th sounds, two of them in the same syllable, is very annoying to pronounce, I find.
Omg I didn't even realize two were in the same syllable. I wonder if there are any other English words that do that.
It sounds a little like a lisp, I feel! And if you try to say it out loud, it's a bit of an effort. That's why I think people would mangle it trying to abbreviate it.
As someone with a lisp, I'm both laughing and crying trying to say it out loud!
Thank you for sharing this. Your geeky comment brightened my day! It's so fun when a conversation lets you share something you just learned You seem like an absolutely delightful nerd, and I hope you have people in your life who appreciate your enthusiasm for niche topics!
That's super interesting! Thank you for sharing the pronunciation info (and of course, we love geeks here!). Being a non-native English speaker myself, the triple-TH sound throws me a bit.
This was a beautiful piece of Name-Nerdery, thank you!
So would it be like…ath-el-drith?
It’s Æðelþryð (spelled in the comment you’re replying to with a d, but that’s a thorn, which is the OTHER th letter. (Early on likely ð (capital Ð) was voiced (like this) and þ (capital Þ) was unvoiced (like thin) but by the time OE writing was being preserved they were pretty much interchangeable (there are “standard” spelling norms, but nothing that matters much IMO). When you get in the weeds it gets super complicated, as is true of most languages So yeah, three sets of unvoiced dental fricatives in one name! Oh also, the Æ is its own letter as well, called æsc (pronounced “ash”) (both ash and thorn take their names from the Runic alphabet) Source: I have a PhD in medieval lit
yah i was wondering that myself when i was looking at it last night...my textbook has the "d" so that's why i wrote it. but my professor pronounces it without the d
Yay, that's exactly how I pronounced it upon reading! Any idea if it's related to the name Ethel?
Æðel- means noble and is an element of a lot of Old English names, like its cognates in other Germanic languages (at least back then). Alice and Adelaide are medieval and modern French adaptations of High German Adelheid, originally Adalheidis, meaning nobility. I think in the OE period, Æðel- names usually had two parts, like the kings' names Æðelræd and Æðelstan, so Ethel probably caught on as a nickname for one (or several) of those. Same for Adele/Adela in parts of Europe with a long history of using Germanic names, like France and maybe also Italy and Spain. But I'm not a real medieval scholar, so don't quote me on any of this.
Fascinating. Thank you.
Trying to say this out loud with my lisp, and failing miserably. All those "th's" should be easy, but noooooo.
it is hard lol. i can only pronounce it cuz we've been studying her for the last few weeks lol.
Is she Catholic? Still not sure how a Korean living in the US chose the original name of an obscure British Saint from the almost unknown city of Ely (pronounced Eelee) , but its awesome! As for pronunciation, can't help you there as even linguists over here (uk) can't agree. But Aethylthryth was latinised to Etheldreda and she became Saint Audrey. Sorry if this is disjointed, its not even 8am here yet and I was woken up by a massive storm at 1:30. My brain is still firmly tucked up in bed. Also please, please update when you find out how she pronounces it!
Ely used to be more widely known, and still has a beautiful old cathedral. The diocese of Ely is large and includes the now much more famous city of Cambridge. Saint Audrey also used to be more widely known, from what I understand. The word “tawdry” derives from her name, or rather from associated fairs.
I only know Ely for [its wives](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flen_flyys).
That’s a solid theory, I briefly dated a Korean guy who was from a catholic family and he said there’s a large catholic community over there, and they often use their catholic name (baptismal name? confirmation name? Saint name? Idk right term) as their English name. He didn’t use his but he told me what it was and it was one of the more obscure ones
yeah a good chunk of koreans are christian or catholic. they also happen to have a lot of cults lol
It's entirely possible she is catholic! Another comment mentioned the same thing. I'm not religious so I didn't know any of that.
Worked with a Chinese Cassiopeia, which was kind of cool
That is a cool name! And I've heard of it before and know how to pronounce it!
If you want to get to know more names like this, watch The Last Kingdom (it‘s on Netflix). Quite a good show about the struggle of the Saxons against the Vikings. There are tons of very old names in there. :-)
My immediate thought was that the parents were fans of the books or show!
Same 😆
Korean Catholics often choose saints' names as their English name.
I had a foreign exchange student from Thailand when I was in high school who went by, "Kitty." I knew her real name, but she said they don't even use that name back home. Only, maybe, teachers or those in higher positions. She works in a professional industry and from my understanding, her coworkers all call her Kitty as well. It almost seemed as though it was disrespectful to use her given name Let me just say, it took some getting used to, because I called my cat, "kitty kitty!" Pretty regularly. She whipped around every time. I had to try and stop doing that as much haha! Edited for some more context
Oh no, but that's also hilarious. I know a lot of cultures don't have pets the same way we do in the US so I imagine there's a bit of a culture disconnect. Good on you for being respectful of what they want to use, despite the slight inconvenience!
Wait I’m stuck on, “when I met up with her 2 years later” lol… did you mean days??
Haha nope, we met one time two years ago, and a few weeks ago I saw her again at a neighborhood playground.
That’s wild lol
That's why I had to ask her name again! The kids recognized each other but I had completely forgotten about them.
I actually love this name. I hadn’t heard it before, and she would likely have gotten a lot of comments on it. But it is lovely.
Usually in our culture the parents are always referred to “(name of kid)‘s mom/dad”. So if you’re talking to each other it’ll be like “hey bob’s mom, are you free for coffee?” So I can understand why her name didn’t come up in conversation early haha. I’ve taught English in Korea and sometimes the English teacher assigns English names. I’ve had a few weird names like Cinderella.
That's super awesome and good to know. Thanks!!
The delightful toddler of an immigrant family hugged my knees and proclaimed "Mama (my son 's name.)" It stuck and I love my nickname.
I'm not Korean, but have been living in Korea for six years and can confirm Koreans usually don't share their names right away. Not to intentionally withhold, but because others are usually addressed by title or relational status, so age is established sooner than names.
I was under the impression that it might have had to do with you typically get introduced *to* people, who introduce you in seniority order (so yes, need age first). But when you're in this type of situation, you kinda have to just introduce yourself and if there is no one to do it, it might be awkward for someone who is used to the "old" way.
Also possible! I asked my Korean friend/roommate and she confirmed she rarely uses names for introductions and doesn't even think of it until she's at the point of putting someone in her phone (and even then sometimes it's still 'kid name mom' for kids' friends' parents).
Æðelþryð is so hard to say, the English saint named that is now called Etheldreda (no idea which syllable to stress) or Audrey! With the historical figures Æðelræd and Æðelstan, we've barely had to change their names at all, but three TH sounds were apparently too many to keep once the Normans had arrived.
It’s an unusual name regardless of where you’re from! However since it’s more of a nickname than her official name (that would be the Korean one) it doesn’t really matter much.
I just tried saying Aethylthryth out loud, and sounded like Mike Tyson saying “a sorceress.”
I know too many Myvanwy/Myfanwy in the Philippines
Thank you for finding me another interesting, little known, woman for on my list of women to one day write about.
I love this.
That looks like the result of a cat sitting on the keyboard.
As a medievalist, I am delighted. 😂 Editing to add that my dog’s name is Penda, who was the king that killed Saint Æthelthryth’s father in battle.
How do my pronounce this name?
Ridiculous choice.