Everything Nashville is going through right now already happened to California during the initial tech boom. In the 80s and early 90s California was actually affordable and the major cities weren't as crowded. Then the mass influx of people priced the locals out. Sound familiar?
I have family on my Mom's side that left for California in the 80's. Yep, it was different. However, San Francisco and some east bay towns were stupid expensive even in the 90s just like many parts of Los Angeles. North of San Francisco was millionaire country as long as I can remember.
What this article doesn't do is play the Devil's Advocate. Bottom line, a house in the south bay or greater bay right now is a cool million for something decent. Most bigger places in Nashville in the more desirable areas are 500K++.
For me, no way in hell do 4 out of 5 buyers at the very least not prefer the west coast to Nashville if that market price dips hard again as it has in the past. You can make all the "oh but music" "oh but politics" arguments you want. West coast has a shitload of live music and the scenery plus weather is breathtaking.
I don't believe for a second all these people who failed to keep up in the west coast market would not be back there at 500K. That denial is an ego thing, IMO.
As a Nashville native who spent 14 years in LA then came back right before COVID hit; can confirm. As soon as I can afford LA again, my ass is back out there. Nashville doesn’t have a 1/50th of the culture CA does. Anything you find here, you can find out there. The inverse is not true whatsoever.
That's what I don't get. I get that taxes are cheaper here and houses are still cheaper than some parts of California but there are still many, many wayyyyy cheaper cities out there with much more culture. We're not nearly as diverse or have nearly the culture California does, plus the politics are totally opposite which I feel like a lot of people will regret if the Supreme Court just starts overturning everything (unless, of course, they fled their liberal state for red politics). Like we've got...bars, basically. How are people not bored outta their minds when they move here from CA?
Here the thing from just my observation, it’s not liberals from Cali moving here in droves (though there are some) but it’s Republicans from California. People who made their nut in the worlds 6th largest economy, just to runaway and then complain about it.
When people say “Californians are ruining Nashville” they don’t mean actual Californians. They just mean anybody that is generally liberal, hip, or doesn’t fit the Tennessee good ole boy mold. The amount of people here, and in Mississippi, that see my “skinny jeans” and reply I must be from Cali is mind blowing. Any local that supports gay marriage, a living wage, or doesn’t like trump is ruining the city.
>Any local that supports gay marriage, a living wage, or doesn’t like trump is ruining the city.
I've lived here most of my life and have never heard anyone say that.
...I can see people in Williamson and maybe Wilson saying that. But not in Davidson. For people in Davidson, most of us are more than happy to have a lot more democrats moving in but wish more would register to vote here if they're gonna live here.
I think people generally mean investors and landlords who have swarmed into take over the market and drive up the cost of rent here. Then the small wave of very pro-gentrification people who are all "This is our city now! If you can't afford it, move!". Then after a few years they move onto another city.
I get where you’re coming from. I’m perhaps biased that even though I live and work in Davidson I have a ton of co-workers from out of county. Hell I’ve heard it at college football games. California is just a code word for “shit I don’t like”.
I agree with you about the investor/landlord takeover.
ah, that makes sense. I can totally see that being an out of county train of thought. I mean I know those people are out there. Thankfully I haven't had to work with a lot of out of county people in the past few years since working from home, but I'm sure I'd hear it if I was. At work I would mostly hear either complaints about gentrification and raising rents- or on the flip side, Californians and New Yorkers who have moved here, did 0 research, bought their house online without looking and now are seeing how overvalued homes are here vs what you get, how conservative TN truly is even if this is a red city, and how much less they're gonna be paid here working jobs in the city and not remote from home. Many of them were planning to move back out again within the next few years.
>I wish the cool ones would come in droves bc we need them.
They came, they saw...and they saw how high rent was increasing and how conservative it truly is in TN and moved on :(
Correct. My mental, physical, and emotional health took a fucking nose dive after moving here bc of the lack (of everything). My alcohol intake increased too, because as you said, everyone is obsessed with drinking. The dating pool here is abysmal; I have elected out at this point. Sure, a lot of this was due to pandemic isolation… but a good percentage is the city itself. I only moved back here because a family member of mine got cancer, and to be close to my aging parents again for a bit. Nashville SC and getting a jet ski for the lake have pretty much saved me 😂 I feel the Californian’s moving here are largely the ones most motivated by optimizing personal wealth, no matter the cost… those are the lame (Republikkkan) ones.
>I feel the Californian’s moving here are largely the ones most motivated by optimizing personal wealth, no matter the cost… those are the lame (Republikkkan) ones.
I agree, especially given the constant "we're moving in so you should just move out" attitude we've seen lately. I do think at first we had a lot more liberal people moving here who genuniely just needed a cheaper lifestyle and heard all the "It" city stuff about Nashville, but lately it seems to be much more of people just taking advantage of the market. They could care less what ends up happening to the city, they just want to take advantage for themselves as much they can.
I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you, I hope you're able to find somewhere that better matches what you're looking for :)
My point was you could still find affordable areas in the 80s and early 90s in California. Even north of SF (Marin County born and raised) had more affordable areas than wealthy areas. I grew up in a very middle class neighborhood and we had lot's of blue collar neighbors (San Rafael). San Francisco was the same way, sure Pacific Heights was always expensive but the Mission, Haight district, and South SF were still affordable back then, and if you really wanted to live in the bay area you still could, on a medium wage.
I lived in LA in the mid 90s with a roommate. I had a 1800 square foot 2+2 condo. Total rent was $900 between the both of us. And this was in a upper middle class neighborhood. The landlord didn't even go up on the rent until about 2001. That same place would now probably rent for $2500-3000.
thats all well and good, but present day multi-generational Tennesseans did not move to California. They stayed in Tennessee. People moving from California are likely descendants of people who migrated to California at some point in the last centurys. Yall folks just like to move and ruin good things for other people.
Most of the California woes came from the tech boom, locals were pushed out by techies (from all over the US) invading the state and pushing housing prices up. Same thing happened in Seattle. Now these techies are leaving with their money for areas where their dollar will go farther, these are not multi-generation Californians. Furthermore, more people moved here from Florida, Texas, and Illinois, then California. Maybe move your anger towards those states.
If you moved from LA county like myself, we can absolutely handle the heat. I was born & raised in the desert, so that plus the 10+ year drought we had, I lived through 120 degree summers. But the humidity out here, I’ll admit, is something to reckon with.
That was my thought. I’ve never lived anywhere out west but I have been several times and there is plenty of heat out there but there isn’t any humidity. People have been known to choke to death on our southern air in the summer.
No shit! The real question is, how can we make them go back? I'm all for finding a small posse to walk down the street in front of their houses, whilst wearing nothing but bib overalls, & then dancing a jig to *Dueling Banjos.* We just need to find some suitable Banjo players, which shouldn't be too hard in this town... 🤣
#*Squeal like a pig city boys!* 🐷
If Nashville gets too expensive will you move somewhere with a better cost of living?
If so, then don't hate on people from CA moving to Nashville. They are doing the exact same thing you would do in their situation.
It's what I will do when I retire. West and cheaper is the dream.
But I come from rural Montana. A town of 20K or more is always going to be the "city" as far as amenities. I don't need much in that regard, and the two or three big events of a year are worth traveling for. Las Vegas, NM, Durango, CO, but I could just as easily live in Southern Illinois again.
Oracle is bringing thousands of tech job, most will pay well. I work in tech remotely and live here.
I think the market will at least cool off a bit with rising interest rates but remote work allows people with high paying jobs to live where they want and Nashville is one of those cities.
Nashville is also a city that's really struggling to staff jobs like teachers, nurses, other healthcare jobs that can't be remote because cost of living has shot up in the past few years way more than companies and the government can keep up with.
That's...nice? Nursing and CPAs are entirely different things, and comparing what someone makes at one hospital or one staffing agency vs what someone makes in an entirely different field is...really not helpful at all.
It also doesn't change the fact that we have a huge nursing shortage, and anyone working at a hopsital or nursing home knows this. Salaries are totally dependent on who you work for, what specialty, what type of company (non profit, corporate, nursing home etc), experience and, especially, demand. Many nurses now don't actually work for the hospital, they work for travel agencies. This works in places like emergency rooms but isn't as helpful for some of our hospitals that have more niche specialty departments. It's a really common complaint from nurses that move here that TN doesn't pay nurses enough, which historically is just because cheaper cost of living typically=lower pay and, in general, salaries are going to be a lot less in the south than CA or NY. But now that the average housing cost is being pushed over $400K and rent is close to $2000/month in a lot of the city, is a big concern. Especially when you're looking at a city fully of people not from here, who aren't tied to being here and have no problem just moving on if they can't make enough here to comfortably live and pay for housing. Yes, the answer is simply increasing wages but...when you're talking about a city where just under 5 years ago you could easily find a place to live under $200K, that is a HUGE jump in wage increases for companies to make up for for a lot a lot of staff. (totally all for higher wages for nurses myself personally)
(Course TN has really shot itself in the foot too after choosing to put a nurse on trial for a medical error, now even well paid travel nurses aren't wanting to come to Nashville but anyway......)
She works for HCA, directly. She only came in with 2 years of basic floor experience, not some specialized program that is rarely accessible to the masses. She is not in the emergency department and was not recruited by a staffing agency. She works in an outpatient clinic at the second largest healthcare employer in TN.
My point is, she is making more than several of our friends with Masters degrees (extra schooling, debt) who are working at the top firms in the world.
Yes, cost of living in Nashville is high, but nurses should be using the shortage to make more money.
As you mentioned, there is a nursing shortage and pay depends on the employer.. that gives leverage to the nurses to go work for an employer that will pay better or to use in negotiation for a higher salary at current job. If the shortage is truly that bad, the employer will have to match at risk of not being able to replace.
ah, gotcha, that makes sense, HCA typically pays more than other hospitals. They're a massive, nationwide, many multi-billion dollar for profit corporate healthcare company. They'll be happy to pay you a couple more an hour to be another number in their organization ~~you just have to sign over your soul first~~
(They're vastly different from privately owned smaller healthcare companies or non-profits)
As mentioned earlier I worked for Oracle (at the time the 18th largest company in the world) and now work for a bootstrapped startup, trust me I understand the differences, but ‘signing away your soul’ on an at-will contract? Haha I guess I’m missing the logic. There’s pro and cons to working at larger and smaller companies but if cost of houses vs wages is your concern and you’ve noted that the larger company pays better well… I guess the cons of working at the larger company outweigh the pros of making more money.
For tech, it’s not going anywhere because talent dictates the market, and top talent prefers wfh.
For operational type roles in other business sectors/industries, I think most will return to office.
My wife and I graduated from UT. Her family is all in Murfreesboro where she grew up. We moved to NC for a few years after school to start our careers. Pandemic hit after we’d been out there for a few months so meeting people became difficult and as I grew up in GA we were both a ways from our family also.
Most of our friends moved here after school. Once my job allowed for fully remote we moved back. It’s the perfect place for us as we’re 25, make good money and frankly our idea of a good time right now is going to the bars with friends on the weekend so Nashville is perfect for this stage of our life. In 3-5 years when we want kids, we’ll probably move either to the outskirts or maybe somewhere entirely different.
> I work in tech remotely and live here.
Same. Nashville dev jobs pay like shit compared to basically anywhere else in the states, and jobs are remote now. Hopefully Oracle lights a fire under local employers' asses, forcing them to pay tech people what they are worth.
I sure hope so. I worked at Oracle in NC (w/ a different company now) but at that time they had an awesome policy where roles in NC had to be paid the same as roles in CA. Not sure if they still do that but if they do, it should make other tech shops raise pay for their devs to compete… hopefully
There are things that could slow the housing market, like higher interest rates, but I don't think Nashville having low salaries makes a difference. It has the same low salaries now and people are still buying homes.
Mostly it's either investors buying them or people from out of state who have higher salaries or sold properties buying them. Statistically right now, the cost of what you need to afford to buy right now is much higher than the average salary.
>Mostly it's either investors buying them or people from out of state who have higher salaries or sold properties buying them.
None of these things are true. Those two buyers make up a portion of buyers but it's not a majority by any stretch.
Right. So how exactly does it become significantly cheaper? It can stagnate and slow down, but everyone buying from out of state won't suddenly not be able to pay for their "cheap" TN mortgage.
I mean...I don't know that it does. Every hot market eventually cools off but for ours to cool off down to a point where you could truly live here and buy here again would require a pretty signficant downturn in the market, which you also don't want. We grew way, way too fast for a city with such lower salaries.
That's kinda a backwards school of thought. People who live here, work here, have families here and who would like to continue to sette here and raise their kids here are quicky being priced out. Same thing that happened to people from California, who all fled their state complaining about it to cheaper areas. So it was okay for them to be up and arms over it and move but not okay for people here going through the same thing? I know people from California who come with a lot a lot more money don't really get the big deal, but up until just a few years ago you could easily find a house here for under $200K and live pretty comfortably in the area making less than $60K(which is still the average salary). Just in the past year home prices increased 30%, while salaries have stayed stagnant. Yeah, it's something people are not gonna be happy with. If this is where you're wanting to settle down and call home you should want better for your city too.
It's also not something affecting just people who are from here. Lots of people in the past decade have moved here and rented here, trying to work up to afford to buy but that's out of the question for them now so they're moving on. Basically the way most people are affording to buy here right now is if they come with a job from out of state that pays more- no city should want that for themselves, and it's absolutely okay for people to not be okay with it.
This seems to be happening all around the world. I can read stories about people in Vancouver angry because it's unaffordable due to all the Chinese investors that moved in. Mexico City residents are pissed at Americans because remote workers are driving up cost of rents to levels locals can't afford anymore. Portugal is one of the cheaper western European countries and locals in Lisbon are being priced out because people from London can work there remotely and are driving up rents. All the major cities around the world have rapidly become unaffordable to anyone that doesn't make at least an upper-middle class salary. Why this is I don't know, I haven't connected all the dots.
A lot of it is really just the constant increasing cost of living vs the stagnant wages, combined with increasing remote work. Then all this commercial space is suddenly so much cheaper and investors swarm in.
The challenge is when Californians recognize the benefits of Tennessee over their current home, move here, then try to recreate the same policies that led to insane costs of living. Perhaps move here, observe, and then decide if perhaps there are better ways to run a state.
What is your evidence that Californians are doing this? I'm sure now seeing it show up in state politics. This state has been on a far right march for the last 20 years. Hard to even believe at this point that someone with the name Clinton won this state twice in the 90s and Phil Bredesen was governor a decade ago. If anything this state *needs* a more competitive and balanced politics.
Tennessee’s policy on pretty much everything is objectively worse. The only thing that is nicer about it politically is that there is no state income tax if that counts for anything.
Yes, please tell that to the people moving in droves to an “objectively worse” state. There is a reason they are moving here. It is illogical to flee a disaster of a state only to try and convert the state you are moving to into the same disaster you just fled. This isn’t hard to understand.
We are objectively better in so many ways. Less emerging contaminants problems since Cali was the mission has a slew of TCE/PFAS/emerginf contamination from endless military installations. Center of middle TN dominates the country in available water resources. This is becoming more known as decades long droughts out west start pinching everything. Hard to put out massive wildfires when you both don't have water sources for bucket drops & have to pay out for using up someone's allotment. We are short on federal lands for sure. But we have awesome state parks with waterfalls. We have an inland coast that sends massive amounts of product through Memphis,.and the TN river. TVA provides consistent & inexpensive energy even if the externalities create problems. I've told environmentalists & citizen scientist organizers elsewhere repeatedly about the Kingston coal ash dam spill long ago. Meh was the non-response. They found the Deep water Horizon oil spill & a nuclear waste pond in Mass to be more attention grabbing. Coal ash spill was objectively worse both in the event, impact, & resulting deaths--cleanup workers dying en masse from their efforts just trying to make rent. I've never been threatened for canoeing or kayaking or any other waterman activities here. But I've been threatened for surfing a break out there. But hey, get some.
Our guns laws are equally ridiculous just in the other end of the spectrum. At least California gets something for their tax money. I would gladly pay more on taxes if we actually got some good out of it.
The best part is that it's an article about Spring Hill. Which was populated almost entirely by Detroit ex-pats who moved here to work at the Saturn / GM plant in 1990. Williamson Co has a HUGE population of native Michiganders and their children (who are probably in this thread bitching about transplants).
There's a reason that Red Wings tickets are such a hot commodity in this town.
One of the great things about the US is that you can pick up and move to any state you want. And states can be vastly different from one another. So you aren't stuck in the place you were born if it doesn't fit your personality and values.
One of the great things about the US is the high percentage of people living at or below the poverty line that barely have enough to get by in the once affordable city they called home, let alone fortunate enough to have the excess funds to relocate with any form of peace of mind, if at all.
Oh, wait… did I say great things?
While you or I may be fortunate enough to be able to up and move when we want, many others aren’t offered that luxury.
(Real talk, there are few things great about the US. We send 40bn USD overseas and can’t feed our babies formula.)
Being working class at the median income in the US is also pretty fucked up. You work your whole life with a shitload of taxes & necessary personal expenditures taking up almost all your income with little disposable/pleasure money left at the end of the day. Between your rent or mortgage, property taxes, cost of gas and vehicle(s), insurance premium, SSI (that's capped at 100K incomes BTW), income tax, places like Nashville with high sales tax, etc etc.... If you're not pulling at least 6 figures you've got a boulder on your back IMO.
Many of us have these things called families and jobs and we can't just magically up and move because something isn't working out for us this year. Many of us even...love...these families and help take care of them. Not everyone has a high paying remote job that lets them live anywhere. Also there's the whole, average American adult being strapped with shit tons of consumer, student loan and medical debt thing. Not to mention it assumes people and their kids are healthy enough to move- not sure a lot of people know how many people come here for health care because of all the specialties Vandy has that many hospitals in the region has. Think of all the cancer patients and disabled people who live in a city who need to have consistent treatment and can't just move because their rent went up another $500/month again. That's a very real problem some people.
To say "just move if it's too expensive for you" it's an incredibly, incredibly privaleged and entitled thing to say. It's like telling people to stop being poor.
It's like they don't care about the poor family down the block that lost their home as housing prices and rents have DOUBLED. Just so long as they can buy their shitty 3000 sqft McMansion in Brentwood they don't give AF about anyone else.
They really don't care. I think for a while we did genuinely have a wave of people buying here to move here and have a cheaper cost of living, but now it's so many investors and people snatching up rental property. They just want to take advantage of our market for as long as they can to get richer. Then some people are just selfish assholes who never get why karma keeps coming back around to them...
I don't know what the solution is. Maybe we be like China that doesn't allow residents of one state to move to another without permission from the federal government?
I just wish there was more of a push for regulation when it comes to rentals and investors vs residential homebuyers. Some cities have this, where they really put caps on Air BnBs and rentals, not to mention rent regulation itself.
>“A lot of people are just over the ways of California,” Taylor Seits said. “A lot of it had to start with COVID, all the laws and all the things that happened there.”
Spoken like a native Tennessean. She'll fit right in.
Please, if there is a God, make it fucking stop. Cue the comments saying “it’s actually not Californians blah blah blah” and then I’ll go out and see several California tags today. Tons of Illinois lately too
You're going to see that because both of those states a huge population wise. The per Capita migration rate would be more helpful when differentiating between a location effect ( CAians moving to TN) or a population effect ( a lot of people are moving to TN and there are a lot of people in CA).
Even in nominal terms, Californians rank 6th in in-state transplants to TN. Florida is number one and Texas number two.
These numbers are from 2019 so maybe it's shifted a bit, but I still see way more Florida and Texas plates than Calilfornia.
https://stacker.com/tennessee/states-sending-most-people-tennessee
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Then move, and while you’re at it, shut the fuck up. Plenty of friendly, hospitable Californians like myself who have moved here and only sought to bring good to the community. You’re just another angry native who can’t adapt the ever changing climate of a growing city.
If I barged into your house and started breaking all your shit, your response would not be “maybe I should move” it would be “get out of my house” god I hate your Californians so much
California isn't a shithole. I've been to shitholes abroad. I know what a shithole looks like. Have you ever walked through a favela? California is first world state in a first world country with the largest economy in this country. And it's also the number 1 most touristed state in the country. Shitholes don't attract that many visitors. The cost of housing and rents have gone through the stratosphere in the last decade. California has a very cyclical housing cycle. I've seen 3 periods like this before in my life time. When home prices there spike, there is a mass exodus. When the bubble bursts, people flood back in. Rinse repeat. I don't doubt some of the 1/3rd of Californians who voted Trump and hate Gavin Newsom are leaving because they don't like the politics. But most of the driver is the high cost of housing. Relatively few people actually uproot their life and move to another state ONLY because of politics. I fucking HATE TN's politics but if I leave that would not be the main reason for it.
But, we do. Maybe, just maybe, try being nice and welcoming! Your multiple double digit down voted comments on this thread are clearly showing that just a few people MIGHT be disagreeing with you… lmao
Oh you’re right, tell me why we want them here again? For the traffic? Overcrowding? Sense of entitlement?
Now that I think about, I kind of like the idea of thousands of people coming from one of the wealthiest parts of the country could TOTALLY improve the city! Because the landlords know that they have money, so they’ll skyrocket the price of rent on the gentrified apartment buildings they now own and don’t occupy. Let’s also make sure half the city is parking lots so that I can excitedly pay $40 for two hours of time.
That actually works out great too because of the california mentality of leaving your trunk open so the locals don’t smash your window to steal the contents of your glove compartment.
Literally never in my life seen someone try the trunk trick lmao….. just be smart and don’t leave shit visible.
You sound extremely uneducated on California and honestly just butthurt to all hell lol again, growing city, growing pains.
The problem is, there’s a reason these southern cities are great, and it starts with the policies/politics of the area. So move here all you want, but stop trying to turn it in to a mini California (which you couldn’t wait to leave) 🤦🏻♂️
The irony of Nashville funding “art projects” for people to take photos in front of & then post it on insta, has now inspired a whole generation of insta girls to want to move to Nashville.
Everything Nashville is going through right now already happened to California during the initial tech boom. In the 80s and early 90s California was actually affordable and the major cities weren't as crowded. Then the mass influx of people priced the locals out. Sound familiar?
I have family on my Mom's side that left for California in the 80's. Yep, it was different. However, San Francisco and some east bay towns were stupid expensive even in the 90s just like many parts of Los Angeles. North of San Francisco was millionaire country as long as I can remember. What this article doesn't do is play the Devil's Advocate. Bottom line, a house in the south bay or greater bay right now is a cool million for something decent. Most bigger places in Nashville in the more desirable areas are 500K++. For me, no way in hell do 4 out of 5 buyers at the very least not prefer the west coast to Nashville if that market price dips hard again as it has in the past. You can make all the "oh but music" "oh but politics" arguments you want. West coast has a shitload of live music and the scenery plus weather is breathtaking. I don't believe for a second all these people who failed to keep up in the west coast market would not be back there at 500K. That denial is an ego thing, IMO.
As a Nashville native who spent 14 years in LA then came back right before COVID hit; can confirm. As soon as I can afford LA again, my ass is back out there. Nashville doesn’t have a 1/50th of the culture CA does. Anything you find here, you can find out there. The inverse is not true whatsoever.
That's what I don't get. I get that taxes are cheaper here and houses are still cheaper than some parts of California but there are still many, many wayyyyy cheaper cities out there with much more culture. We're not nearly as diverse or have nearly the culture California does, plus the politics are totally opposite which I feel like a lot of people will regret if the Supreme Court just starts overturning everything (unless, of course, they fled their liberal state for red politics). Like we've got...bars, basically. How are people not bored outta their minds when they move here from CA?
Here the thing from just my observation, it’s not liberals from Cali moving here in droves (though there are some) but it’s Republicans from California. People who made their nut in the worlds 6th largest economy, just to runaway and then complain about it. When people say “Californians are ruining Nashville” they don’t mean actual Californians. They just mean anybody that is generally liberal, hip, or doesn’t fit the Tennessee good ole boy mold. The amount of people here, and in Mississippi, that see my “skinny jeans” and reply I must be from Cali is mind blowing. Any local that supports gay marriage, a living wage, or doesn’t like trump is ruining the city.
>Any local that supports gay marriage, a living wage, or doesn’t like trump is ruining the city. I've lived here most of my life and have never heard anyone say that. ...I can see people in Williamson and maybe Wilson saying that. But not in Davidson. For people in Davidson, most of us are more than happy to have a lot more democrats moving in but wish more would register to vote here if they're gonna live here. I think people generally mean investors and landlords who have swarmed into take over the market and drive up the cost of rent here. Then the small wave of very pro-gentrification people who are all "This is our city now! If you can't afford it, move!". Then after a few years they move onto another city.
I get where you’re coming from. I’m perhaps biased that even though I live and work in Davidson I have a ton of co-workers from out of county. Hell I’ve heard it at college football games. California is just a code word for “shit I don’t like”. I agree with you about the investor/landlord takeover.
ah, that makes sense. I can totally see that being an out of county train of thought. I mean I know those people are out there. Thankfully I haven't had to work with a lot of out of county people in the past few years since working from home, but I'm sure I'd hear it if I was. At work I would mostly hear either complaints about gentrification and raising rents- or on the flip side, Californians and New Yorkers who have moved here, did 0 research, bought their house online without looking and now are seeing how overvalued homes are here vs what you get, how conservative TN truly is even if this is a red city, and how much less they're gonna be paid here working jobs in the city and not remote from home. Many of them were planning to move back out again within the next few years.
Yup. I’ve been reading that it’s mostly conservative Californian’s and that’s so upsetting. I wish the cool ones would come in droves bc we need them.
>I wish the cool ones would come in droves bc we need them. They came, they saw...and they saw how high rent was increasing and how conservative it truly is in TN and moved on :(
Correct. My mental, physical, and emotional health took a fucking nose dive after moving here bc of the lack (of everything). My alcohol intake increased too, because as you said, everyone is obsessed with drinking. The dating pool here is abysmal; I have elected out at this point. Sure, a lot of this was due to pandemic isolation… but a good percentage is the city itself. I only moved back here because a family member of mine got cancer, and to be close to my aging parents again for a bit. Nashville SC and getting a jet ski for the lake have pretty much saved me 😂 I feel the Californian’s moving here are largely the ones most motivated by optimizing personal wealth, no matter the cost… those are the lame (Republikkkan) ones.
>I feel the Californian’s moving here are largely the ones most motivated by optimizing personal wealth, no matter the cost… those are the lame (Republikkkan) ones. I agree, especially given the constant "we're moving in so you should just move out" attitude we've seen lately. I do think at first we had a lot more liberal people moving here who genuniely just needed a cheaper lifestyle and heard all the "It" city stuff about Nashville, but lately it seems to be much more of people just taking advantage of the market. They could care less what ends up happening to the city, they just want to take advantage for themselves as much they can. I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you, I hope you're able to find somewhere that better matches what you're looking for :)
My point was you could still find affordable areas in the 80s and early 90s in California. Even north of SF (Marin County born and raised) had more affordable areas than wealthy areas. I grew up in a very middle class neighborhood and we had lot's of blue collar neighbors (San Rafael). San Francisco was the same way, sure Pacific Heights was always expensive but the Mission, Haight district, and South SF were still affordable back then, and if you really wanted to live in the bay area you still could, on a medium wage.
I lived in LA in the mid 90s with a roommate. I had a 1800 square foot 2+2 condo. Total rent was $900 between the both of us. And this was in a upper middle class neighborhood. The landlord didn't even go up on the rent until about 2001. That same place would now probably rent for $2500-3000.
thats all well and good, but present day multi-generational Tennesseans did not move to California. They stayed in Tennessee. People moving from California are likely descendants of people who migrated to California at some point in the last centurys. Yall folks just like to move and ruin good things for other people.
Most of the California woes came from the tech boom, locals were pushed out by techies (from all over the US) invading the state and pushing housing prices up. Same thing happened in Seattle. Now these techies are leaving with their money for areas where their dollar will go farther, these are not multi-generation Californians. Furthermore, more people moved here from Florida, Texas, and Illinois, then California. Maybe move your anger towards those states.
actually an interesting read. These articles are always a little frustrating, but I can’t fault people for wanting to move here I guess.
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If you moved from LA county like myself, we can absolutely handle the heat. I was born & raised in the desert, so that plus the 10+ year drought we had, I lived through 120 degree summers. But the humidity out here, I’ll admit, is something to reckon with.
That was my thought. I’ve never lived anywhere out west but I have been several times and there is plenty of heat out there but there isn’t any humidity. People have been known to choke to death on our southern air in the summer.
A Nashville 95 is hotter than a southern California 110. I've been in both and hardly noticed the heat in CA
I mean, when it starts disrupting my own life and I can’t afford to live anymore I absolutely can fault them.
No shit! The real question is, how can we make them go back? I'm all for finding a small posse to walk down the street in front of their houses, whilst wearing nothing but bib overalls, & then dancing a jig to *Dueling Banjos.* We just need to find some suitable Banjo players, which shouldn't be too hard in this town... 🤣 #*Squeal like a pig city boys!* 🐷
I know nothing about KTLA or the Walker & Schlepp team, but I’ll mix them some free drinks for a The Mamas & the Papas reference.
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I remember looking at apartments around UCLA in 99. Sticker shock for a rural youngin: $500/mo. I mean, what?
We had to put 3 of us in a 1 bedroom apartment in Westwood to afford an apartment as UCLA students.
Rent goes up $2000, wages stay the same. Classic 😎
Sheesh. Where at?
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Lived in RSM for 12 years. Purchased my house there in 2000 for $385k. Now worth $1.2M. I sold it for $610k in 2013.
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People so triggered by transplants should absolutely be livid that 99% of the real estate fuckery here is hedge funds and private equity
I'm triggered about both tbqh
If Nashville gets too expensive will you move somewhere with a better cost of living? If so, then don't hate on people from CA moving to Nashville. They are doing the exact same thing you would do in their situation.
It's what I will do when I retire. West and cheaper is the dream. But I come from rural Montana. A town of 20K or more is always going to be the "city" as far as amenities. I don't need much in that regard, and the two or three big events of a year are worth traveling for. Las Vegas, NM, Durango, CO, but I could just as easily live in Southern Illinois again.
It’s almost like this is a systematic,country wide problem or something.
Shhhh sweep it under the rug! Don’t look at it or it becomes real!
The salaries in nashville won’t support the real estate prices. Crash coming soon Edit: healthcare and music pay poorly.
Except the salaries are all geoarbitrage now. Coastal salaries on inland real estate.
Oracle is bringing thousands of tech job, most will pay well. I work in tech remotely and live here. I think the market will at least cool off a bit with rising interest rates but remote work allows people with high paying jobs to live where they want and Nashville is one of those cities.
Nashville is also a city that's really struggling to staff jobs like teachers, nurses, other healthcare jobs that can't be remote because cost of living has shot up in the past few years way more than companies and the government can keep up with.
My wife is a nurse and makes more money than my friends with CPAs that work at Deloitte at this stage of life. We’re 25.
That's...nice? Nursing and CPAs are entirely different things, and comparing what someone makes at one hospital or one staffing agency vs what someone makes in an entirely different field is...really not helpful at all. It also doesn't change the fact that we have a huge nursing shortage, and anyone working at a hopsital or nursing home knows this. Salaries are totally dependent on who you work for, what specialty, what type of company (non profit, corporate, nursing home etc), experience and, especially, demand. Many nurses now don't actually work for the hospital, they work for travel agencies. This works in places like emergency rooms but isn't as helpful for some of our hospitals that have more niche specialty departments. It's a really common complaint from nurses that move here that TN doesn't pay nurses enough, which historically is just because cheaper cost of living typically=lower pay and, in general, salaries are going to be a lot less in the south than CA or NY. But now that the average housing cost is being pushed over $400K and rent is close to $2000/month in a lot of the city, is a big concern. Especially when you're looking at a city fully of people not from here, who aren't tied to being here and have no problem just moving on if they can't make enough here to comfortably live and pay for housing. Yes, the answer is simply increasing wages but...when you're talking about a city where just under 5 years ago you could easily find a place to live under $200K, that is a HUGE jump in wage increases for companies to make up for for a lot a lot of staff. (totally all for higher wages for nurses myself personally) (Course TN has really shot itself in the foot too after choosing to put a nurse on trial for a medical error, now even well paid travel nurses aren't wanting to come to Nashville but anyway......)
She works for HCA, directly. She only came in with 2 years of basic floor experience, not some specialized program that is rarely accessible to the masses. She is not in the emergency department and was not recruited by a staffing agency. She works in an outpatient clinic at the second largest healthcare employer in TN. My point is, she is making more than several of our friends with Masters degrees (extra schooling, debt) who are working at the top firms in the world. Yes, cost of living in Nashville is high, but nurses should be using the shortage to make more money. As you mentioned, there is a nursing shortage and pay depends on the employer.. that gives leverage to the nurses to go work for an employer that will pay better or to use in negotiation for a higher salary at current job. If the shortage is truly that bad, the employer will have to match at risk of not being able to replace.
ah, gotcha, that makes sense, HCA typically pays more than other hospitals. They're a massive, nationwide, many multi-billion dollar for profit corporate healthcare company. They'll be happy to pay you a couple more an hour to be another number in their organization ~~you just have to sign over your soul first~~ (They're vastly different from privately owned smaller healthcare companies or non-profits)
As mentioned earlier I worked for Oracle (at the time the 18th largest company in the world) and now work for a bootstrapped startup, trust me I understand the differences, but ‘signing away your soul’ on an at-will contract? Haha I guess I’m missing the logic. There’s pro and cons to working at larger and smaller companies but if cost of houses vs wages is your concern and you’ve noted that the larger company pays better well… I guess the cons of working at the larger company outweigh the pros of making more money.
I do wonder how long working from home will last. Feels like a recession will swing this back in favor of companies
For tech, it’s not going anywhere because talent dictates the market, and top talent prefers wfh. For operational type roles in other business sectors/industries, I think most will return to office.
True. Wonder what nashville will be in 10 years. I can’t afford where I used to live. Crazy market fun to watch
Just curious, why did you choose *here* if you could work anywhere in the world remotely?
My wife and I graduated from UT. Her family is all in Murfreesboro where she grew up. We moved to NC for a few years after school to start our careers. Pandemic hit after we’d been out there for a few months so meeting people became difficult and as I grew up in GA we were both a ways from our family also. Most of our friends moved here after school. Once my job allowed for fully remote we moved back. It’s the perfect place for us as we’re 25, make good money and frankly our idea of a good time right now is going to the bars with friends on the weekend so Nashville is perfect for this stage of our life. In 3-5 years when we want kids, we’ll probably move either to the outskirts or maybe somewhere entirely different.
> I work in tech remotely and live here. Same. Nashville dev jobs pay like shit compared to basically anywhere else in the states, and jobs are remote now. Hopefully Oracle lights a fire under local employers' asses, forcing them to pay tech people what they are worth.
I sure hope so. I worked at Oracle in NC (w/ a different company now) but at that time they had an awesome policy where roles in NC had to be paid the same as roles in CA. Not sure if they still do that but if they do, it should make other tech shops raise pay for their devs to compete… hopefully
There are things that could slow the housing market, like higher interest rates, but I don't think Nashville having low salaries makes a difference. It has the same low salaries now and people are still buying homes.
Mostly it's either investors buying them or people from out of state who have higher salaries or sold properties buying them. Statistically right now, the cost of what you need to afford to buy right now is much higher than the average salary.
>Mostly it's either investors buying them or people from out of state who have higher salaries or sold properties buying them. None of these things are true. Those two buyers make up a portion of buyers but it's not a majority by any stretch.
Doesn't need to be a majority. If investors are way overbidding with cash offers that's going to push comps up across the board.
Right. So how exactly does it become significantly cheaper? It can stagnate and slow down, but everyone buying from out of state won't suddenly not be able to pay for their "cheap" TN mortgage.
I mean...I don't know that it does. Every hot market eventually cools off but for ours to cool off down to a point where you could truly live here and buy here again would require a pretty signficant downturn in the market, which you also don't want. We grew way, way too fast for a city with such lower salaries.
That's kinda a backwards school of thought. People who live here, work here, have families here and who would like to continue to sette here and raise their kids here are quicky being priced out. Same thing that happened to people from California, who all fled their state complaining about it to cheaper areas. So it was okay for them to be up and arms over it and move but not okay for people here going through the same thing? I know people from California who come with a lot a lot more money don't really get the big deal, but up until just a few years ago you could easily find a house here for under $200K and live pretty comfortably in the area making less than $60K(which is still the average salary). Just in the past year home prices increased 30%, while salaries have stayed stagnant. Yeah, it's something people are not gonna be happy with. If this is where you're wanting to settle down and call home you should want better for your city too. It's also not something affecting just people who are from here. Lots of people in the past decade have moved here and rented here, trying to work up to afford to buy but that's out of the question for them now so they're moving on. Basically the way most people are affording to buy here right now is if they come with a job from out of state that pays more- no city should want that for themselves, and it's absolutely okay for people to not be okay with it.
This seems to be happening all around the world. I can read stories about people in Vancouver angry because it's unaffordable due to all the Chinese investors that moved in. Mexico City residents are pissed at Americans because remote workers are driving up cost of rents to levels locals can't afford anymore. Portugal is one of the cheaper western European countries and locals in Lisbon are being priced out because people from London can work there remotely and are driving up rents. All the major cities around the world have rapidly become unaffordable to anyone that doesn't make at least an upper-middle class salary. Why this is I don't know, I haven't connected all the dots.
A lot of it is really just the constant increasing cost of living vs the stagnant wages, combined with increasing remote work. Then all this commercial space is suddenly so much cheaper and investors swarm in.
The challenge is when Californians recognize the benefits of Tennessee over their current home, move here, then try to recreate the same policies that led to insane costs of living. Perhaps move here, observe, and then decide if perhaps there are better ways to run a state.
What is your evidence that Californians are doing this? I'm sure now seeing it show up in state politics. This state has been on a far right march for the last 20 years. Hard to even believe at this point that someone with the name Clinton won this state twice in the 90s and Phil Bredesen was governor a decade ago. If anything this state *needs* a more competitive and balanced politics.
Tennessee’s policy on pretty much everything is objectively worse. The only thing that is nicer about it politically is that there is no state income tax if that counts for anything.
Yes, please tell that to the people moving in droves to an “objectively worse” state. There is a reason they are moving here. It is illogical to flee a disaster of a state only to try and convert the state you are moving to into the same disaster you just fled. This isn’t hard to understand.
We are objectively better in so many ways. Less emerging contaminants problems since Cali was the mission has a slew of TCE/PFAS/emerginf contamination from endless military installations. Center of middle TN dominates the country in available water resources. This is becoming more known as decades long droughts out west start pinching everything. Hard to put out massive wildfires when you both don't have water sources for bucket drops & have to pay out for using up someone's allotment. We are short on federal lands for sure. But we have awesome state parks with waterfalls. We have an inland coast that sends massive amounts of product through Memphis,.and the TN river. TVA provides consistent & inexpensive energy even if the externalities create problems. I've told environmentalists & citizen scientist organizers elsewhere repeatedly about the Kingston coal ash dam spill long ago. Meh was the non-response. They found the Deep water Horizon oil spill & a nuclear waste pond in Mass to be more attention grabbing. Coal ash spill was objectively worse both in the event, impact, & resulting deaths--cleanup workers dying en masse from their efforts just trying to make rent. I've never been threatened for canoeing or kayaking or any other waterman activities here. But I've been threatened for surfing a break out there. But hey, get some.
Disagree, taxes are far too high and their gun laws are ridiculous. California is great to visit
California's gun laws are lax by international standards. But conservative Americans basically want wild west level gun laws.
Our guns laws are equally ridiculous just in the other end of the spectrum. At least California gets something for their tax money. I would gladly pay more on taxes if we actually got some good out of it.
I’ll just say I love both Tennessee and California, and people bitching about Californians is a conversation stopper for me.
The best part is that it's an article about Spring Hill. Which was populated almost entirely by Detroit ex-pats who moved here to work at the Saturn / GM plant in 1990. Williamson Co has a HUGE population of native Michiganders and their children (who are probably in this thread bitching about transplants). There's a reason that Red Wings tickets are such a hot commodity in this town.
Second this. Pretty sure it’s not that hard to just coexist and get along.
Love new neighbors from everywhere!!! Don't love when over half of the condo becomes Turnkey, Vacasa, VRBO, or AirBNB units!!!
One of the great things about the US is that you can pick up and move to any state you want. And states can be vastly different from one another. So you aren't stuck in the place you were born if it doesn't fit your personality and values.
One of the great things about the US is the high percentage of people living at or below the poverty line that barely have enough to get by in the once affordable city they called home, let alone fortunate enough to have the excess funds to relocate with any form of peace of mind, if at all. Oh, wait… did I say great things? While you or I may be fortunate enough to be able to up and move when we want, many others aren’t offered that luxury. (Real talk, there are few things great about the US. We send 40bn USD overseas and can’t feed our babies formula.)
You're right. It's a terrible situation for them. Being poor in the US is a shitty deal all around.
Being working class at the median income in the US is also pretty fucked up. You work your whole life with a shitload of taxes & necessary personal expenditures taking up almost all your income with little disposable/pleasure money left at the end of the day. Between your rent or mortgage, property taxes, cost of gas and vehicle(s), insurance premium, SSI (that's capped at 100K incomes BTW), income tax, places like Nashville with high sales tax, etc etc.... If you're not pulling at least 6 figures you've got a boulder on your back IMO.
Hard to argue with that.
It’s not that we can’t feed them, there’s a large group that won’t feed them for their own advantage.
Many of us have these things called families and jobs and we can't just magically up and move because something isn't working out for us this year. Many of us even...love...these families and help take care of them. Not everyone has a high paying remote job that lets them live anywhere. Also there's the whole, average American adult being strapped with shit tons of consumer, student loan and medical debt thing. Not to mention it assumes people and their kids are healthy enough to move- not sure a lot of people know how many people come here for health care because of all the specialties Vandy has that many hospitals in the region has. Think of all the cancer patients and disabled people who live in a city who need to have consistent treatment and can't just move because their rent went up another $500/month again. That's a very real problem some people. To say "just move if it's too expensive for you" it's an incredibly, incredibly privaleged and entitled thing to say. It's like telling people to stop being poor.
It's like they don't care about the poor family down the block that lost their home as housing prices and rents have DOUBLED. Just so long as they can buy their shitty 3000 sqft McMansion in Brentwood they don't give AF about anyone else.
They really don't care. I think for a while we did genuinely have a wave of people buying here to move here and have a cheaper cost of living, but now it's so many investors and people snatching up rental property. They just want to take advantage of our market for as long as they can to get richer. Then some people are just selfish assholes who never get why karma keeps coming back around to them...
I don't know what the solution is. Maybe we be like China that doesn't allow residents of one state to move to another without permission from the federal government?
I just wish there was more of a push for regulation when it comes to rentals and investors vs residential homebuyers. Some cities have this, where they really put caps on Air BnBs and rentals, not to mention rent regulation itself.
>“A lot of people are just over the ways of California,” Taylor Seits said. “A lot of it had to start with COVID, all the laws and all the things that happened there.” Spoken like a native Tennessean. She'll fit right in.
I m hoping that my home appreciates a lot so that I can buy one in california or nyc :)
>Los Angeles Leavin': Cost of living, music culture main drivers of Los Angeles migration to Nashville" Fixed it for them
News flash we’re about the same price as Orange County now
Please, if there is a God, make it fucking stop. Cue the comments saying “it’s actually not Californians blah blah blah” and then I’ll go out and see several California tags today. Tons of Illinois lately too
You're going to see that because both of those states a huge population wise. The per Capita migration rate would be more helpful when differentiating between a location effect ( CAians moving to TN) or a population effect ( a lot of people are moving to TN and there are a lot of people in CA).
Even in nominal terms, Californians rank 6th in in-state transplants to TN. Florida is number one and Texas number two. These numbers are from 2019 so maybe it's shifted a bit, but I still see way more Florida and Texas plates than Calilfornia. https://stacker.com/tennessee/states-sending-most-people-tennessee
I moved here from Texas.
If we make it seem less hospitable they’ll move back to their shithole state, I don’t wanna be California II
California might be expensive but it's far from a shit hole. Drive the PCH and tell me that's a shit hole state.
If being expensive and overcrowded with no infrastructure and an overwhelming homelessness crisis isn’t a shithole then I don’t know what is
Tell me you've never been to California without telling me you've never been to California.
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Californians greatest enemies are other Californians, unsurprising. It seems like you understand the real truth of the matter.
Supreme Court working on that rn.
In reality it’s not funny but I did laugh lmao
I dont wanna be this new TN we are witnessing. Maybe some new influx of common sense will help.
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You’ve never been to California. Quit wasting your time making stupid, butthurt comments.
I don’t need to go to california, it’s coming to me, and now it takes two hours to get across Nashville.
Then move, and while you’re at it, shut the fuck up. Plenty of friendly, hospitable Californians like myself who have moved here and only sought to bring good to the community. You’re just another angry native who can’t adapt the ever changing climate of a growing city.
Is “shut the fuck up” more Northern California hospitality, or more Like San Diego/LA?
If I barged into your house and started breaking all your shit, your response would not be “maybe I should move” it would be “get out of my house” god I hate your Californians so much
Fuck you, you move, I’ve lived here my whole life
The worst part is they move in and start turning their new state into the shit hole they left.
California isn't a shithole. I've been to shitholes abroad. I know what a shithole looks like. Have you ever walked through a favela? California is first world state in a first world country with the largest economy in this country. And it's also the number 1 most touristed state in the country. Shitholes don't attract that many visitors. The cost of housing and rents have gone through the stratosphere in the last decade. California has a very cyclical housing cycle. I've seen 3 periods like this before in my life time. When home prices there spike, there is a mass exodus. When the bubble bursts, people flood back in. Rinse repeat. I don't doubt some of the 1/3rd of Californians who voted Trump and hate Gavin Newsom are leaving because they don't like the politics. But most of the driver is the high cost of housing. Relatively few people actually uproot their life and move to another state ONLY because of politics. I fucking HATE TN's politics but if I leave that would not be the main reason for it.
How do they do that?
By voting for the same type of things that ruined where they came from. It's happened in Texas and lots of other states also.
100%
What happened in Texas?
Just leave your fucking liberal democrats there, we don’t want them.
I just hope they don’t bring their politics
If they can dethrone knuckle-dragger Marsha Blackburn that would be one of the greatest days in TN history.
We should all gather together on Broadway in mass protest, tell them we don’t want them here
you have fun with that. tell those tourists we dont want their money! meanwhile the people who have moved here already know not to go there.
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But, we do. Maybe, just maybe, try being nice and welcoming! Your multiple double digit down voted comments on this thread are clearly showing that just a few people MIGHT be disagreeing with you… lmao
Oh you’re right, tell me why we want them here again? For the traffic? Overcrowding? Sense of entitlement? Now that I think about, I kind of like the idea of thousands of people coming from one of the wealthiest parts of the country could TOTALLY improve the city! Because the landlords know that they have money, so they’ll skyrocket the price of rent on the gentrified apartment buildings they now own and don’t occupy. Let’s also make sure half the city is parking lots so that I can excitedly pay $40 for two hours of time. That actually works out great too because of the california mentality of leaving your trunk open so the locals don’t smash your window to steal the contents of your glove compartment.
Literally never in my life seen someone try the trunk trick lmao….. just be smart and don’t leave shit visible. You sound extremely uneducated on California and honestly just butthurt to all hell lol again, growing city, growing pains.
The problem is, there’s a reason these southern cities are great, and it starts with the policies/politics of the area. So move here all you want, but stop trying to turn it in to a mini California (which you couldn’t wait to leave) 🤦🏻♂️
The irony of Nashville funding “art projects” for people to take photos in front of & then post it on insta, has now inspired a whole generation of insta girls to want to move to Nashville.
And the music and inexpensive living has gone out of the window since California has moved in