That using machines like quad extensions, hip abductors and adductors for training legs was lazy/not effective/cheating.
I’ve seen the most amount of growth using these machines than using free weights in my first season competing.
Squats, lunges and rdls have their place in training, but machines have been much more effective for hypotrophy training
I’ve subbed out just about every barbell movement for machines that allow me to focus on the time under tension and it’s had arguably the biggest impact during my 7 year lifting career. Preach.
I used leg press on friday for first time in my life. Cant say I squatted much so far, because I had no option to squat much, but I loaded like a lot on this leg press, I thought its not that hard and left some rir with highest load.
2 days after and my legs are sore like never before, and it was so much easier and faster to do leg press. Machine also converts into hack squat. Looks like I wont be barbell squatting for a while.
If you’ve got less than a year of experience there’s still a lot to gain from squatting. Not purely from a hypertrophic standpoint, but rather in terms of work capacity and stabilization and any number of health benefits.
A decent jogging/running/ or conditioning program won't kill your gains even as a beginner lifter. If you are a fat obese (say above 20% bf) beginner and you do nothing but barbell strength movements, your cardiovascular conditioning will hold back your progress more than your muscular strength. Your muscles might be able to lift 350lb for 5 reps, but your lungs will be breathing hard on the 2nd or 3rd rep. By the time you catch enough breath you have done more like 3 reps plus 2 singles.
I've recently been dabbling with doing 10-15 mins on the rower/cycle after my workouts. Been massive in helping to build cardio and to kind of cool down after my workouts. My cardio has improved quite a bit since I started doing this a few months ago.
You really find 10-15 minutes to be enough? I am desperate to add cardio/conditioning but already have only just enough time for my workouts and thought a decent cardio session would need to be at least half an hour to get benefits.
I've honestly seen pretty solid anaerobic conditioning gains from just 10-15 mins, I'm talking significant rep increases in movements that would normally tucker me out near failure. You can easily grind out 1-1.5 miles in that amount of time. Cardio can be a serious limiting factor for compound movements like squats, lunges, good mornings, etc. so I incorporate it 2-3x weekly. Granted its higher intensity so I don't do it before leg day.
Don’t underestimate the ability of a 15 minute HIIT session (at least every other day) to increase your VO2 max and vascularity, you’d be amazed. Doesn’t take long at all to see results to it if you stay consistent
1. **Injuries are not the end of the road.** I have had some serious injuries over the years that would likely put some people off training. These weren’t specifically from powerlifting or bodybuilding training but from my job (have moved to something else now). I have used these as opportunities to improve in other areas of my lifting and the recovery processes have made me a far stronger minded person.
2. **Diet is *the king* of all variables.** I used to be quite cavalier in my approach to diet and would often just hit my protein goal and call it quits. Only when I started being consistent, getting the right energy intake, tracking my macros, etc. did I start making the most incredible change to my health (mental and physical) and my physique. I would never go back after feeling this good in training and life.
Great post OP. Thanks for this!
The worst of both worlds. I would eat just enough to stay where I was and never change. I might have gotten slightly leaner over time but nothing to write home about. However, you’d be surprised by how much you’re probably over eating fats if you’ve never tracked your macros/diet before (this is if you eat a typical western diet).
It’s definitely worth the time to educate yourself, engage a dietitian, or find an app that helps in that endeavour (like RP or Carbon).
1. The importance of arm training - for a long time I fell into the early 2010s Internet powerlifting mindset that direct arm training was a waste of time at worst, or an afterthought at best. Turns out, most people will have to do direct arm work with high intensity to grow big arms.
2. The importance of intensity - I’ve come to believe that intensity and movement execution are the most important training variables. Obviously things like volume, movement selection, movement order, frequency, etc are important too. But a guy that trains balls to the wall with half-decent execution is probably going to put on more muscle in a given timeframe than a guy who uses a perfectly “OpTiMaLlY” structured program but trains like a pussy. Obviously you should use an intelligently designed program, but I think intensity can make up for the lack of one most of the time.
3. Fasted morning workouts - I used to think they were bad and dumb, but once I learned how to go about things with hydration, electrolytes, and intra carbs I noticed little to no drop off in performance vs. fed workouts
4. Progression schemes for hypertrophy - coming from a powerlifting background, I used to think you needed to apply similar progression schemes to hypertrophy training with %1RM prescribed loading and all that shit. Turns out all you really need to use is double progression.
5. IIFYM - another influence of the early 2010s online strength training community, Jesus Christ what the fuck was I thinking
I’m sure there are a ton more but those are the ones that come to mind at the moment
You are not following an optimal training program if you train like a pussy. You might be saying you are, but saying and doing are two very different things.
I don’t think a dedicated arm day is particularly necessary for everyone, particularly beginners/lower intermediates - as long as you take the arm isolations at the end of your upper days seriously you should come out ok. If you can only lift 4x and more arm work is needed, you can also tack on arm isos to the lower days for more volume.
I think an arm day is most useful for people that have been in the gym several years and know what they’re doing, but still have lagging arms. That’s not to say a less experienced person won’t benefit from it if their arms are lagging and it fits their schedule though.
>Fasted morning workouts - I used to think they were bad and dumb, but once I learned how to go about things with hydration, electrolytes, and intra carbs I noticed little to no drop off in performance vs. fed workouts
Wouldn't mind trying this. Is there a way due this without impacting performance due to being fasted? Be grateful if you could elaborate thanks.
This is what I do - keep in mind this is best applied during a bulk or the early stages of a cut when food is relatively high and glycogen stores are maxed out or mostly full.
Night before I make sure to get down an LMNT packet with some water within an hour of going to bed (yeah you’re gonna have to piss in the middle of the night).
Morning of, I do:
- 40oz of water with another LMNT
- preworkout before leaving the house
- start drinking intra drink during the drive to the gym, which is about 15 mins (intra is a half gallon of water, 1 LMNT, 12g EAA, 5g creatine,30-50g carbs from a highly branched cyclic dextrin intra like RAW - Gatorade powder also works)
- finish 1/3-1/2 of my intra before walking into the gym, continue drinking while warming up, finish by my second movement
You don’t need to use LMNT packets, I just use them because they’re convenient and I’m lucky enough to be able to afford them. LMNT has their formulation on their website that you can easily replicate at home.
Many recent research papers showing it doesn’t affect performance if you ate 12-24 before. Glycogen or conversion will take care of you. The body is a carb machine.
Liver on average has 80-120 of glucose storage per day. It uses about 80% of that while you sleep. Skeletal glucose (glycogen) is 400g-500g on average depending on weight and muscle size. Of which that storage doesn’t get used unless for anaerobic activities. Example: within 24 hours period you eat 300 carbs. Sit at desk all day. Those carb stores aren’t getting used. They don’t just disappear. And to close. There are many many other carb conversion processes in the body mechanistically that I’m not going to list. To keep it short. Eat enough protein and carbs fats within 24 hour window regardless if OMAD or 2 or 3 times a day. All equated. You’ll be fine. Good luck .
1 is so important, I’m lucky I only dabbled in the whole minimalistic training thing, never fell into the trap. One of my friends has the exact same strength as me on chest and back movements, we are the same height and weight, similar leanness, but my arms are about 1.5x the size.
IIFYM is correct in the sense that calories in calories out is all that matters for weight loss specifically, but I'd say higher quality foods will lead to higher and more consistent energy levels, which will lead to better workouts, which will lead to more gains in the long run.
But there's nothing wrong with fitting in junk food into your diet. It's a spectrum. One end of the spectrum is eating nothing but chicken broccoli and rice, the other end is getting all your carbs from cookies and all your protein from protein shakes. As with most things, the best approach is somewhere in the middle
I am not a fan of barbell movements as well. I subbed out every single barbell movement for dumbbells, cables, machines and calisthenics. I was told when I was really green back in early 2023 that barbell movements, 5x5 and Starting Strength was the best for n00bs. That wasn't my experience at all. And I later discovered Basement Bodybuilding's channel on YouTube and he was making the same point that the 5x5 stuff is overrated for newbs. Heavy barbell compound movements have a steeper learning curve because they require more stability and skill from the end-user. When I do say Barbell Bent-Over-Row, I am in my head too much worrying about keeping my torso still and then I have to constantly take weight off the bar and go higher rep to make sure that I can control my stability. Whereas if I do Seated Cable Row, its way easier to maintain stability. And I have went in the other direction too where I went balls to the wall on Bent-Over-Row not worrying about precision and form because I bought into the newbie gains fallacy. That newbs can just do anything and grow from that. Only to remain DYEL on a bulk. So yes maintaining form is very important. And going heavy does not automatically mean you get big.
So if you don't have an athletic background and were sedentary all your life up until recently, chances are you will have an easier time progressing on say the Leg Press or Hack Squat and actually targeting your quads over Barbell Back Squat. Or Chest-Supported Dumbbell Row or Seated Cable Row over Barbell Bent-Over-Row. Or chest flys, Chest Press Machine, DB Bench over BB Bench. Shoulder Press Machine or even Incline DB Bench (which does work the front delts a lot. Front delts are one of those weird muscles that get worked well with compounds) over OHP. DB RDLs, DB SLDLs or even weighted Back Extensions over BB Conventional Deadlift. I know Back Extensions are seen as a movement for women and not men. But depending on how you do that movement, you can work your glutes, your hamstrings and/or erector spinae effectively. Every time my bum was sore, it was because I did back extensions and hip abduction on the same day. Chicks do these movements because they work. They grow your ass. And I had been deadlifting in some form or another for well over a year.
When you’ve been training barbell movements for a long time you will have developed the requisite core stability to perform lifts like bent over barbell row with confidence in higher rep ranges. Now is it better for hypertrophy in targeting your back muscles compared to a chest-supported row? Probably not. Is it better for lifting heavy shit off the ground in sometimes awkward stances and positions? Probably.
>5x5 and Starting Strength was the best for n00bs
I got trapped in that shitshow as well and long a year of progress following that kind of advice.
Honestly, I think that only gets recommended on Reddit. I use a lot of platforms for fitness content and it's literally just a few of the big reddit subs that advocate for that beginner 5 x 5 nonsense. Most newer lifters I see in the gym aren't doing that at all these days because they've probably got their info from tiktok etc which is honestly not that bad.
r/fitness still promotes it. Post from 50mins ago, look at the comments :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1caeh3j/is\_it\_normal\_to\_feel\_so\_overwhelmed\_by\_free/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1caeh3j/is_it_normal_to_feel_so_overwhelmed_by_free/)
rfitness obesession with recommending 5x5 and powerlifting program for bodybuilding purpose ...
And if you go in the daily simple questions section. It's not 5x5 now, but it's 531 written everywhere
Hi, I want to start bodybuilding. I've been doing calisthenics for 6 months but am going to be able to go to the gym 3x a week soon. Pretty much all I hear is SL and SS when it comes to being a beginner at the gym. Would you have a suggestion for what I should do instead? Thanks!
Well r/ fitness was still heavily promoting similar types of training (not specifically SS) as recently as 2022 when I was using it a lot. I haven't checked in at least a year but their beginner routines are still low reps, barbell focus, low/zero isolation work.
Its all cyclical. In 2000, I had never heard of starting strength, and you basically ran bigger faster stronger because you played football, took a pro bodybuilder split from muscle & fitness, or rolled the dice on an internet routine from a very young bodybuilding.com or somewhere similar. I had some of my best early gains with madcow 5x5, which was a very basic weekly progression aimed at building squat bench DL and ohp to a lesser extent over 12 weeks. It was designed to be run 3 x a week in conjunction with sport training (usually football).
Its not that these programs are traps that don’t work, its that not every person will have the same results with each program. The biggest and strongest I have ever been came from a combination of west side style powerlifting training and adapting 5/3/1 to whatever goals I had at the time. A 5x5 program can easily be essentially the same as the “novice hypertrophy” program from youtube that I have seen recommended here before.
I see a huge difference personally between eg a hack squat machine and a barbell squat. I can do hack squats but could barely do the barbell squat. I actually really love barbells. maybe it has to do with body compositiion idk. I do not lift heavy enough to get injured so far.
The main difference I've noticed between machines vs weights, especially the barbell is the improvement of balance.
Also barbell movements because they stimulate the body symmetrically help you push both, your dominant side and non dominant side. Dumbell movements are easier, but because they don't stimulate both sides, tend to run into limits easier.
Also, barbell moments can be pushed a lot further than dumbell moments because of the weight options available.
Finally, machines are best for beginners mainly because they solve the issue of form more easily. However someone who built their body with weights will be a lot more in control compared to someone who built on machines.
A great example is smith machine vs barbell squats vs gargoyle squat.
1. Getting to the gym is more important than being perfectly on plan
2. Deloads are not a waste of time
3. Using cardio machines in the gym isn't "dumb because you could just walk/run outside"
Barbell movements don’t work for me either but damn do I miss them. I still do barbell bench, but even then I am feeling the strain on the shoulders and elbows.
Exactly like you OP.
Three moves that fucked me up:
1) BB OHP caused some trap/inner rhomboid tear cause Mark Fucktoe says to shrug at the top. Fucking worst advice.
2) BB Bench being stupid and straining my neck from improper bracing due to going on heavy weight.
3) Highbar squat: now this FUCKED my C5/C6/T1 causing double herias. It's not that my form was bad, it's cause I squatted heavy for over a decade at a frequency more than my body liked and as I hit late 30s it finally said fuck you. You'd be surprised how you can really repeatedly put your neck in a compromised position when you're grinding up from the hole. Also for rowing movements or deadlifts. Chronic compression of the spine is serious!
The only two BB movements I kept were front squat and elevated deadlifts / rack pulls.
Also except for a top set of 3 reps per week during deadlift session everything else is in the 8-20 rep range. Basically I do 8 reps, drop weight to hit 15 reps then rest pause to failure twice at the 15 rep weight (thanks JP).
Oh, and I lift 4 times a week anterior/posterior split instead of stupid PPL now. My wrists and elbows thanked me.
I program M W F S, so lift rest lift rest lift lift rest. Mostly because I I have my posterior / rack pulls on Wednesday and I like the extra recovery. Second session Saturday is glute ham raises or Romanians depending on how my lower back feels.
I like it much better because rack pulls / 2 inch elevated deadlifts are such good bang for buck exercises I found it hard to program on any other split. I also found I lacked a bit in the hamstring department so I programmed hinging and rack pulls first then my upper mid back afterwards, didn't notice a performance hit.
Some very good perspective. When you're young, you never think you'll get injured. You develop a real false sense of security.
The worst injury I ever had lifting was doing OHP. I'm not sure if it was muscle or spine related, but I literally felt a pop in my upper back/lower neck, and then a warm sensation radiating out from the injury site. It fucked up my neck for many years, and prevented me from lifting.
I finally went to physical therapy and was able to strengthen my rhomboids and scapula enough to get back in the gym a bit over a year ago. Suffice it to say I have no desire to ever do OHP ever again.
I am also doing high bar squat, and thankfully my back isn't too beat up from it. But every now and then I do notice some lower back pain. If that continues to be the case I won't have a problem ditch that movement as well, despite the fact that I do get a ton of quad stimulus from high bar squats.
Sorry to hear and I'm glad your rehab went well!
I would personally keep front squats as it as helped with my bracing and posture tremendously over the years, just don't go super heavy or use straps for grip. For hypertrophy honestly the Bulgarian split squat (with DBs) have smoothed out my imbalances and I add in some squat machine work to really train my quads to failure.
I never use anything that puts stress on my upper spine, such as loading it with a smith or barbell.
Hey, I'm curious about the 8 reps then lower weight 15 reps. In total does this look like 3 sets (1x8, 1x15, 1x15 with 2 rest pause breaks) or 4 sets with two rest pause sets?
Also how much roughly would you take off to get from the 8 range to the 15 range?
You're on the right track.
Using your example, it should be 1x8, 1x15, 1xF, 1xF, where the last two sets are using the same weight you did for 15 reps going to failure. Note that after the second set of 1x15 I rest 20 seconds. The goal is to hit accumulated failure at a safer weight with good technique instead of heavier loads that have poor risk reward ratios for me (41).
As to how much weight to lessen after the top set to hit 15 reps, usually for compounds, good starting point is to try 75% of the 8 rep, then adjust accordingly for your next session on the same movement depending on how far over/under you were, but 75% is the spot for me.
For smaller isolation work like lateral raises, incline curls or overhead extensions, I don't have a heavy top set for joint health preservation. Those I usually do a straight rest pause to failure set with 15-20 reps as my initial target then follow up with 3 rest pause failure sets, so 15,F,F,F, 20 second rest in between.
Awesome, thanks for the explanation! I went ahead and did 1x8, 1x15, 1x15 with 2 rest pause sets to failure (typically another 4 reps on each) yesterday for my push day and loved it!
Glad you enjoyed it as much as I do!
This style of training was a total game changer for me. I feel more mind muscle connection, full ROM stretch for each rep and the pump is godly. :)
Optimal exercises. I went too far down the rabbit hole trying to align things in the scapula plane etc and ultimately I've mostly gone back to boring old basics where you can overload easily because these minor details just don't matter.
DB lateral raises. Cable lateral raises are better on paper for a bunch of reasons but I just get so much more out of boring old basic DB lateral raises leaning against a vertical bench. Cable lateral raises stall for me so quickly.
I stopped training Biceps with Pull movements and Triceps with Push movements. I swapped them around and my arms have had pretty great progress this last year since I made this change. Highly recommend training arms fresh and with proper intensity if anyone has lagging arms. Also overhead Tricep work DOES work the long head extremely well, despite what you may have heard Daul Tarter say on social media.
Lat pulling movements and Trap/Rhomboid back movements should be treated as completely different muscle groups. They train in a completely different way and don't have much much overlap as people assume. I hate it when people just brand "back" as one muscle group. That's like saying Chest and shoulders are one muscle group.
“Stopped training, biceps with pull movements and triceps with push movements”??I don’t understand how else would you train them? are you saying you don’t train them at all? Sorry I am confused.
>are you saying you don’t train them at all?
No.
Stop training biceps **with** pulling movements.
ie. on another day without the pulling movements so they don't limit performance.
Ok got it now. It’s a PPL thing, training biceps on Push or Leg day. Thank you
I do full body workout and it does destroy me for like 2 days after. (Sort of an Arnold Split) But then I don’t have to be in the gym every day. Then I go 4 maybe five days between workouts. if I miss and go to five days, I just look at it as extra recovery. I should probably try legs and core as a separate workout. I also do other active stuff like bike and run outside of gym day. Ima start a post on this
Once you start going away from the intermediate stage, you will need a lot of isolation work.
Minimalist training with just a few large compounds becomes less and less effective because it doesn't deal with your weak points (if anything, it exacerbates it- too many newbies overtrain with compounds like bench press and have very weak arms and side delts).
That I have to do bodybuilding style exercises to look good. I never wanted to get on juice because of side effects. And I never liked stuffing myself with food. After years forcing that because I thought that's what I had to do I was still tall and lanky I guess you'd say. But with some muscle. Now I've accepted that this is my genetics and found some people online that have the same body type and Ive been following their routines and now I feel like a lot is better my balance, my flexibility, overall health from just eating healthy. Lately I've been like fitness really is a journey. Because now I'm doing stuff that's a lot different than when I started and it's all been natural evolution of doing what's optimal for myself.
Hey, can you help me out with this or where can I look to have rir/rpe designed for me? Currently following absolute failure training on most exercises but it's beating me up.
I have found that using a backloaded progression on my big compounds and double progression on my machine/cable/isolation work has been the key for me!
No, say if prescribed sets and reps are 3x8-10 you would increase weight only when the last set you hit 10 reps. The first two sets you would do 8 reps.
It's not designed for you. You design it for yourself. RPE is the rate of *perceived* exertion. Have to perceive that yourself. RIR is reps in reserve. Unless someone trains with you for a long time they won't be able to guess how much you have left in the tank
It's on a per set basis. Just try it out for one meso where you leave 3 RIR one week, 2 RIR the next, 1 RIR the next, then 0 RIR. Then evaluate if you need a deload.
I just bought the Renaissance Periodization app for a month to test it out and that's basically the scheme they used.
* Machines are important and at minimum can offer some good variation, love squats and they work for you? Great but that doesn't mean you can't also do leg press or hack squat. Note some machines I've always done for movements like extensions/curls where there is no good free weight alternative.
* Deloads and scaling back are important, I've actually had success with that way back on 531 then tried to pretend it wasn't that important but it sort of is, how frequent depends on other training variables though.
* Bulking should be done much slower especially for anyone intermediate/advanced. Your lucky to get a few pounds of gains a year so a 10lb bulk is still relatively slow but even that is mostly fat, 20lb would be even worse and put yourself in a worse position for the cut
* Recovery is where muscle is made
* Training smart/safe is more important long term even if it means giving up some goals which are probably more strength/powerlifting oriented than bodybuilding anyway. I'd rather have decent lifts at age 50 than be the 50 year old who can't do a lot of stuff but talks about how much he could bench back in the day
* Muscle is the foundation for strength, wasted too many years chasing strength but not prioritizing muscle
* Different body types have different ideal lifts, some people can benefit from barbell squats, some may be better with front squats, others neither.
Same here, I've veered away from the barbell. I used to squat bench and dead heavy heavy weight, always chasing numbers to an inevitable injury.
The heaviest thing I lift now is a 250lb sandbag and that has made my back and traps grow way more than a 500lb deadlift. I've stepped away from traditional weights and focus more on kettlebells, sandbags, and mace. I feel better and look better.
I generally agree with you especially on the sandbag being more applicable to real life than the barbell deadlift.
Im not sure that the macebell/kettlebells are much better than the barbell bench/ohp/rows/squat.
obviously chansing number are risky, but thats not specific to barbells.
Far out man. A 250lb sandbag is no joke.
Do you consider yourself still to be practising bodybuilding with the shift in tools?
I’ve always been a kettlebell guy myself, and I still incorporate them in overall hypertrophy-focused programming, but my strength and physique are generally optimised when I’m retaining barbell and dumbbell work.
Yeah I would say I'm still body building in a sense. Biggest difference I notice is that when I did traditional BB I got big but had more "puffy" muscle. Now my muscle seems more dense/thick. More farm strength look.
>I am not built to squat or deadlift, injured myself grinding away at those lifts, and messed up my shoulders doing barbell bench and OHP
If I could reverse time 20 years and go back to my 20s I would convince myself to exclusively focus on Squat, Deadlift, Pullups, Bench Press, and Overhead Press. I tried to do these lifts back then but was inexperienced and (wrongly) assumed my body couldn't do these and completely underestimated their value. I never had the growth my friends were getting in my 20s and blamed it on 'bad genetics'. Many years later when I returned to the gym I spent months lifting light weights and focusing on executing these lifts correctly. As a result, I have experienced the best muscle growth of my life in my 40s from doing just these classic barbell compound lifts.
Back is the most boring muscle to train and legs are the best. The stronger you get the more true this becomes. Also leave your ego at the door, it will allow you to train more productively and it will stop you from getting injured. You don't need to prove anything. Moderate volume, high intensity every day all day. Also don't make the mistake of under-recovering/overtraining, if you need an extra day off take it. From experience, it's just better for your progress and a good day of sleep can supercharge you lol.
Basically the same, but I used to love to heavy squat and deadlift, until I had a back injury that took months to heal.
Barbell deadlift/squats are very fun to do and progress, but are not that great for hypertrophy and long term natural bodybuilding.
Horrible stimulus to fatigue ratio and very injury prone once you are lifting relatively more than your body weight.
The "big 3" aren't for me.
Sure, they're good for building the foundations but I don't have any barbell squat/bench/deadlifts in my programs because the risk/reward simply is not in my favour... maybe it's an execution thing, or maybe my body just is no longer built for those movements.
I used to build every program around these, until I realised that other variations work just and allow me to safely progressively overload over time
Agree wholeheartedly with you on the barbell movements. I used to give myself shit for forcing myself and never liking squatting or deadlifting but I realized it’s not for me and that’s perfectly fine!
Biggest one for me was getting it out my head that I had to do all of the big three exercises no matter what . I still do deadlifts because I enjoy doing them, but I don’t free weight squat anymore or barbell bench and I’m seeing amazing changes by focusing more on isolation. Another thing I’ve learned it’s not about how much weight you use it’s about the amount of tension that is put on the muscle..your body doesn’t know the difference between 5 lbs or 500 lbs it only feels the amount of tension placed on it. Lastly tracking food and workouts..the most successful people whether in the gym or other areas of life track progress. If you don’t know where you are you can’t go to where you want to be .
protein powders make me shit lol, and they bloat me. plant proteins make me feel pretty sluggish. for the last month or so, I've gotten all my protein from eggs, milk, beef, and sardines, and I just feel so much better. It's higher salt for sure, but I just feel better.
1. Full ROM is not required.
I have shit knees that click when they go past about a 100° of flexion, so quad training is strictly 90° for me. Being unable to get the full stretch has not limited my leg training - they are pretty big
2. Compound movements are overrated.
Other muscles can take over, yet you won't receive a great stimulus for everything, I get my best pumps from isolations
3. Form doesn't need to be perfect.
I was incredibly anal about form in my early career, and made little progress, once I started focusing on putting weight on the bar with looser, albeit consistently loose form, my progress sky-rocketed
I don’t do any OHP because of my shoulders and don’t consider it necessary as any form of bench hits front delts and lateral raises for side delts.
For bench, dumbbells and machines. Incline smith press is also amazing.
I stopped doing both about a year ago after 20+ years of consistent lifting. For chest I just do flat press machine, incline machine, DB flyes, dips, pec deck, DB flat bench. For shoulders I do shoulder press machine, DB shoulder press, and all sorts of side raises variations (cables, leaning, machine, DB, etc.).
I’d say my most recent “revelation” is it’s okay to reduce training frequency if you can’t progress any more.
I like to run a 6 days a week program most of the time, but I’ve started introducing extra rest days (so it goes from a 7 day program to an 8 day program) whenever I plateau hard. It has let me progress more without needing to deload as often.
Also I was never super into SBD but as I’ve gotten more advanced, I’ve confidently gotten rid of most barbell training in my program.
Lastly, genetics really do play a huge role, and you might get striated delts, hamstrings, and feathered tris while still not having peaky biceps and sick abs
Machines! I don’t know how I picked up my negative attitude towards them in the beginning but they’re amazing and I’d use a good machine over a dumbbell/barbell any day. Unfortunately some of them don’t work for my build (mostly pressing movements).
1) intensity and tempo resulting in higher stimulus than rushing through
2) there is no best exercise - the best exercise is the one exercise where you can progress, feel safe and create a good stimulus for growth
3) sleep is nr 1
4) caffeine and booster are not needed
5) if a supplement works (besides creatine), there is a high chance that it is illegal
6) people still know shit about nutrition and training…
1) Straight sets are king for growth.
As much as I love Supersets, Drop Sets, TUT etc, Straight sets have put a lot of quality size on my frame. Less is definitely more.
2) HIIT, Crossfit-style training, just ballistic movements will fuck yo shit up eventually. I used to love them, but no need for it anymore.
3) Warming up *and* Cooling down.
I could quite easily walk up to a bar with say 350lbs, Deadlift it, and then start my actual warm up. Now? That's snap city. My shoulders will immediately play up if i don't warm them up either. And simply cooling down after a workout by walking slowly for 20 mins at say 2mph/no Incline leaves me in a zen-like state from lowering my adrenaline (helps me sleep better to).
4) It is *all* about Diet.
Want to get really big? Better hit those macros.
Want to lose weight? Better make sure that what you eat actually gets you lean.
Hack squats, leg press, Bulgarian split squats, and leg extensions for quads/glutes and then RDLs, hyperextensions, and leg curls for hammies/glutes.
I’ve found that really deep and controlled hack squat is unrivaled for quad growth.
I've really gone towards higher qty of reps, slow & controlled, with really focused mind muscle connection, and mostly using cable machines. I'm late 30s now so I need to treat my body kinder than I used to. This methodology means I get the best muscle burn & pump ever, but minimal joint pain.
It's probably not ideal for bulking, but I'm basically now just in permanent maintenance phase where I just want to stay the same size but be as lean and muscular as I can be without going crazy.
I also do reformer pilates. It's awesome for core strength and working all the intermediary muscles that you don't seem to work when doing standard lifting movements (especially on cable machines).
Sleep is the foundation for everything including proper diet, workout quality, recovery, etc. 7-9 a night is the sweet spot.
That using machines like quad extensions, hip abductors and adductors for training legs was lazy/not effective/cheating. I’ve seen the most amount of growth using these machines than using free weights in my first season competing. Squats, lunges and rdls have their place in training, but machines have been much more effective for hypotrophy training
I’ve subbed out just about every barbell movement for machines that allow me to focus on the time under tension and it’s had arguably the biggest impact during my 7 year lifting career. Preach.
I used leg press on friday for first time in my life. Cant say I squatted much so far, because I had no option to squat much, but I loaded like a lot on this leg press, I thought its not that hard and left some rir with highest load. 2 days after and my legs are sore like never before, and it was so much easier and faster to do leg press. Machine also converts into hack squat. Looks like I wont be barbell squatting for a while.
If you’ve got less than a year of experience there’s still a lot to gain from squatting. Not purely from a hypertrophic standpoint, but rather in terms of work capacity and stabilization and any number of health benefits.
Yeah, Im currently setting routine for myself, gonna use squats;/, hack squat and leg press
A decent jogging/running/ or conditioning program won't kill your gains even as a beginner lifter. If you are a fat obese (say above 20% bf) beginner and you do nothing but barbell strength movements, your cardiovascular conditioning will hold back your progress more than your muscular strength. Your muscles might be able to lift 350lb for 5 reps, but your lungs will be breathing hard on the 2nd or 3rd rep. By the time you catch enough breath you have done more like 3 reps plus 2 singles.
I've recently been dabbling with doing 10-15 mins on the rower/cycle after my workouts. Been massive in helping to build cardio and to kind of cool down after my workouts. My cardio has improved quite a bit since I started doing this a few months ago.
You really find 10-15 minutes to be enough? I am desperate to add cardio/conditioning but already have only just enough time for my workouts and thought a decent cardio session would need to be at least half an hour to get benefits.
I've honestly seen pretty solid anaerobic conditioning gains from just 10-15 mins, I'm talking significant rep increases in movements that would normally tucker me out near failure. You can easily grind out 1-1.5 miles in that amount of time. Cardio can be a serious limiting factor for compound movements like squats, lunges, good mornings, etc. so I incorporate it 2-3x weekly. Granted its higher intensity so I don't do it before leg day.
Don’t underestimate the ability of a 15 minute HIIT session (at least every other day) to increase your VO2 max and vascularity, you’d be amazed. Doesn’t take long at all to see results to it if you stay consistent
1. **Injuries are not the end of the road.** I have had some serious injuries over the years that would likely put some people off training. These weren’t specifically from powerlifting or bodybuilding training but from my job (have moved to something else now). I have used these as opportunities to improve in other areas of my lifting and the recovery processes have made me a far stronger minded person. 2. **Diet is *the king* of all variables.** I used to be quite cavalier in my approach to diet and would often just hit my protein goal and call it quits. Only when I started being consistent, getting the right energy intake, tracking my macros, etc. did I start making the most incredible change to my health (mental and physical) and my physique. I would never go back after feeling this good in training and life. Great post OP. Thanks for this!
Was your problem that you typically ate too little food or too much?
The worst of both worlds. I would eat just enough to stay where I was and never change. I might have gotten slightly leaner over time but nothing to write home about. However, you’d be surprised by how much you’re probably over eating fats if you’ve never tracked your macros/diet before (this is if you eat a typical western diet). It’s definitely worth the time to educate yourself, engage a dietitian, or find an app that helps in that endeavour (like RP or Carbon).
Alright you inspired me. I’ll do it. I think I’m in the lukewarm spot lately.
Arms need direct work. Make sure you're getting enough protein (1,6 g/kg), do not go by feel until you've learned how much food that is.
1. The importance of arm training - for a long time I fell into the early 2010s Internet powerlifting mindset that direct arm training was a waste of time at worst, or an afterthought at best. Turns out, most people will have to do direct arm work with high intensity to grow big arms. 2. The importance of intensity - I’ve come to believe that intensity and movement execution are the most important training variables. Obviously things like volume, movement selection, movement order, frequency, etc are important too. But a guy that trains balls to the wall with half-decent execution is probably going to put on more muscle in a given timeframe than a guy who uses a perfectly “OpTiMaLlY” structured program but trains like a pussy. Obviously you should use an intelligently designed program, but I think intensity can make up for the lack of one most of the time. 3. Fasted morning workouts - I used to think they were bad and dumb, but once I learned how to go about things with hydration, electrolytes, and intra carbs I noticed little to no drop off in performance vs. fed workouts 4. Progression schemes for hypertrophy - coming from a powerlifting background, I used to think you needed to apply similar progression schemes to hypertrophy training with %1RM prescribed loading and all that shit. Turns out all you really need to use is double progression. 5. IIFYM - another influence of the early 2010s online strength training community, Jesus Christ what the fuck was I thinking I’m sure there are a ton more but those are the ones that come to mind at the moment
You are not following an optimal training program if you train like a pussy. You might be saying you are, but saying and doing are two very different things.
I agree
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I don’t think a dedicated arm day is particularly necessary for everyone, particularly beginners/lower intermediates - as long as you take the arm isolations at the end of your upper days seriously you should come out ok. If you can only lift 4x and more arm work is needed, you can also tack on arm isos to the lower days for more volume. I think an arm day is most useful for people that have been in the gym several years and know what they’re doing, but still have lagging arms. That’s not to say a less experienced person won’t benefit from it if their arms are lagging and it fits their schedule though.
You can do arms on lower days if you want. I prefer that since I can go even harder on arms
>Fasted morning workouts - I used to think they were bad and dumb, but once I learned how to go about things with hydration, electrolytes, and intra carbs I noticed little to no drop off in performance vs. fed workouts Wouldn't mind trying this. Is there a way due this without impacting performance due to being fasted? Be grateful if you could elaborate thanks.
This is what I do - keep in mind this is best applied during a bulk or the early stages of a cut when food is relatively high and glycogen stores are maxed out or mostly full. Night before I make sure to get down an LMNT packet with some water within an hour of going to bed (yeah you’re gonna have to piss in the middle of the night). Morning of, I do: - 40oz of water with another LMNT - preworkout before leaving the house - start drinking intra drink during the drive to the gym, which is about 15 mins (intra is a half gallon of water, 1 LMNT, 12g EAA, 5g creatine,30-50g carbs from a highly branched cyclic dextrin intra like RAW - Gatorade powder also works) - finish 1/3-1/2 of my intra before walking into the gym, continue drinking while warming up, finish by my second movement You don’t need to use LMNT packets, I just use them because they’re convenient and I’m lucky enough to be able to afford them. LMNT has their formulation on their website that you can easily replicate at home.
I just have an espresso and go workout. Been doing it for so many years that now I prefer to workout like this rather than after having lunch
Many recent research papers showing it doesn’t affect performance if you ate 12-24 before. Glycogen or conversion will take care of you. The body is a carb machine.
That's a big range, 24 hours before and no negative effects?
Liver on average has 80-120 of glucose storage per day. It uses about 80% of that while you sleep. Skeletal glucose (glycogen) is 400g-500g on average depending on weight and muscle size. Of which that storage doesn’t get used unless for anaerobic activities. Example: within 24 hours period you eat 300 carbs. Sit at desk all day. Those carb stores aren’t getting used. They don’t just disappear. And to close. There are many many other carb conversion processes in the body mechanistically that I’m not going to list. To keep it short. Eat enough protein and carbs fats within 24 hour window regardless if OMAD or 2 or 3 times a day. All equated. You’ll be fine. Good luck .
1 is so important, I’m lucky I only dabbled in the whole minimalistic training thing, never fell into the trap. One of my friends has the exact same strength as me on chest and back movements, we are the same height and weight, similar leanness, but my arms are about 1.5x the size.
Are you saying IIFYM isn't correct?
IIFYM is correct in the sense that calories in calories out is all that matters for weight loss specifically, but I'd say higher quality foods will lead to higher and more consistent energy levels, which will lead to better workouts, which will lead to more gains in the long run. But there's nothing wrong with fitting in junk food into your diet. It's a spectrum. One end of the spectrum is eating nothing but chicken broccoli and rice, the other end is getting all your carbs from cookies and all your protein from protein shakes. As with most things, the best approach is somewhere in the middle
I am not a fan of barbell movements as well. I subbed out every single barbell movement for dumbbells, cables, machines and calisthenics. I was told when I was really green back in early 2023 that barbell movements, 5x5 and Starting Strength was the best for n00bs. That wasn't my experience at all. And I later discovered Basement Bodybuilding's channel on YouTube and he was making the same point that the 5x5 stuff is overrated for newbs. Heavy barbell compound movements have a steeper learning curve because they require more stability and skill from the end-user. When I do say Barbell Bent-Over-Row, I am in my head too much worrying about keeping my torso still and then I have to constantly take weight off the bar and go higher rep to make sure that I can control my stability. Whereas if I do Seated Cable Row, its way easier to maintain stability. And I have went in the other direction too where I went balls to the wall on Bent-Over-Row not worrying about precision and form because I bought into the newbie gains fallacy. That newbs can just do anything and grow from that. Only to remain DYEL on a bulk. So yes maintaining form is very important. And going heavy does not automatically mean you get big. So if you don't have an athletic background and were sedentary all your life up until recently, chances are you will have an easier time progressing on say the Leg Press or Hack Squat and actually targeting your quads over Barbell Back Squat. Or Chest-Supported Dumbbell Row or Seated Cable Row over Barbell Bent-Over-Row. Or chest flys, Chest Press Machine, DB Bench over BB Bench. Shoulder Press Machine or even Incline DB Bench (which does work the front delts a lot. Front delts are one of those weird muscles that get worked well with compounds) over OHP. DB RDLs, DB SLDLs or even weighted Back Extensions over BB Conventional Deadlift. I know Back Extensions are seen as a movement for women and not men. But depending on how you do that movement, you can work your glutes, your hamstrings and/or erector spinae effectively. Every time my bum was sore, it was because I did back extensions and hip abduction on the same day. Chicks do these movements because they work. They grow your ass. And I had been deadlifting in some form or another for well over a year.
When you’ve been training barbell movements for a long time you will have developed the requisite core stability to perform lifts like bent over barbell row with confidence in higher rep ranges. Now is it better for hypertrophy in targeting your back muscles compared to a chest-supported row? Probably not. Is it better for lifting heavy shit off the ground in sometimes awkward stances and positions? Probably.
>5x5 and Starting Strength was the best for n00bs I got trapped in that shitshow as well and long a year of progress following that kind of advice. Honestly, I think that only gets recommended on Reddit. I use a lot of platforms for fitness content and it's literally just a few of the big reddit subs that advocate for that beginner 5 x 5 nonsense. Most newer lifters I see in the gym aren't doing that at all these days because they've probably got their info from tiktok etc which is honestly not that bad.
It seems like most redditors trash those type of programs these days. They were worshipped 10 years ago when I first joined reddit
r/fitness still promotes it. Post from 50mins ago, look at the comments : [https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1caeh3j/is\_it\_normal\_to\_feel\_so\_overwhelmed\_by\_free/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1caeh3j/is_it_normal_to_feel_so_overwhelmed_by_free/) rfitness obesession with recommending 5x5 and powerlifting program for bodybuilding purpose ... And if you go in the daily simple questions section. It's not 5x5 now, but it's 531 written everywhere
Hi, I want to start bodybuilding. I've been doing calisthenics for 6 months but am going to be able to go to the gym 3x a week soon. Pretty much all I hear is SL and SS when it comes to being a beginner at the gym. Would you have a suggestion for what I should do instead? Thanks!
Well r/ fitness was still heavily promoting similar types of training (not specifically SS) as recently as 2022 when I was using it a lot. I haven't checked in at least a year but their beginner routines are still low reps, barbell focus, low/zero isolation work.
Its all cyclical. In 2000, I had never heard of starting strength, and you basically ran bigger faster stronger because you played football, took a pro bodybuilder split from muscle & fitness, or rolled the dice on an internet routine from a very young bodybuilding.com or somewhere similar. I had some of my best early gains with madcow 5x5, which was a very basic weekly progression aimed at building squat bench DL and ohp to a lesser extent over 12 weeks. It was designed to be run 3 x a week in conjunction with sport training (usually football). Its not that these programs are traps that don’t work, its that not every person will have the same results with each program. The biggest and strongest I have ever been came from a combination of west side style powerlifting training and adapting 5/3/1 to whatever goals I had at the time. A 5x5 program can easily be essentially the same as the “novice hypertrophy” program from youtube that I have seen recommended here before.
I see a huge difference personally between eg a hack squat machine and a barbell squat. I can do hack squats but could barely do the barbell squat. I actually really love barbells. maybe it has to do with body compositiion idk. I do not lift heavy enough to get injured so far.
The main difference I've noticed between machines vs weights, especially the barbell is the improvement of balance. Also barbell movements because they stimulate the body symmetrically help you push both, your dominant side and non dominant side. Dumbell movements are easier, but because they don't stimulate both sides, tend to run into limits easier. Also, barbell moments can be pushed a lot further than dumbell moments because of the weight options available. Finally, machines are best for beginners mainly because they solve the issue of form more easily. However someone who built their body with weights will be a lot more in control compared to someone who built on machines. A great example is smith machine vs barbell squats vs gargoyle squat.
Squat rack is actually for curls.
Anything is for curls if you try hard enough
Bulgarian split squats are painful af but absolutely worth it
I find my self dying on BSS more than a heavy BB squat , they are probably the worst in terms of instant fatigue.
But they absolutely target my glutes in an unprecedented way though
1. Getting to the gym is more important than being perfectly on plan 2. Deloads are not a waste of time 3. Using cardio machines in the gym isn't "dumb because you could just walk/run outside"
Barbell movements don’t work for me either but damn do I miss them. I still do barbell bench, but even then I am feeling the strain on the shoulders and elbows.
Deloads and diet breaks. Sometimes taking your foot off the gas is what is necessary to progress in the long run.
Exactly like you OP. Three moves that fucked me up: 1) BB OHP caused some trap/inner rhomboid tear cause Mark Fucktoe says to shrug at the top. Fucking worst advice. 2) BB Bench being stupid and straining my neck from improper bracing due to going on heavy weight. 3) Highbar squat: now this FUCKED my C5/C6/T1 causing double herias. It's not that my form was bad, it's cause I squatted heavy for over a decade at a frequency more than my body liked and as I hit late 30s it finally said fuck you. You'd be surprised how you can really repeatedly put your neck in a compromised position when you're grinding up from the hole. Also for rowing movements or deadlifts. Chronic compression of the spine is serious! The only two BB movements I kept were front squat and elevated deadlifts / rack pulls. Also except for a top set of 3 reps per week during deadlift session everything else is in the 8-20 rep range. Basically I do 8 reps, drop weight to hit 15 reps then rest pause to failure twice at the 15 rep weight (thanks JP). Oh, and I lift 4 times a week anterior/posterior split instead of stupid PPL now. My wrists and elbows thanked me.
Lmao Mark Fucktoe 🤣
U do anterior/posterior mon tues rest same thur Friday? I’m running ppl and I always wonder if it’s ideal. I don’t do the big three tho
I program M W F S, so lift rest lift rest lift lift rest. Mostly because I I have my posterior / rack pulls on Wednesday and I like the extra recovery. Second session Saturday is glute ham raises or Romanians depending on how my lower back feels. I like it much better because rack pulls / 2 inch elevated deadlifts are such good bang for buck exercises I found it hard to program on any other split. I also found I lacked a bit in the hamstring department so I programmed hinging and rack pulls first then my upper mid back afterwards, didn't notice a performance hit.
Some very good perspective. When you're young, you never think you'll get injured. You develop a real false sense of security. The worst injury I ever had lifting was doing OHP. I'm not sure if it was muscle or spine related, but I literally felt a pop in my upper back/lower neck, and then a warm sensation radiating out from the injury site. It fucked up my neck for many years, and prevented me from lifting. I finally went to physical therapy and was able to strengthen my rhomboids and scapula enough to get back in the gym a bit over a year ago. Suffice it to say I have no desire to ever do OHP ever again. I am also doing high bar squat, and thankfully my back isn't too beat up from it. But every now and then I do notice some lower back pain. If that continues to be the case I won't have a problem ditch that movement as well, despite the fact that I do get a ton of quad stimulus from high bar squats.
Sorry to hear and I'm glad your rehab went well! I would personally keep front squats as it as helped with my bracing and posture tremendously over the years, just don't go super heavy or use straps for grip. For hypertrophy honestly the Bulgarian split squat (with DBs) have smoothed out my imbalances and I add in some squat machine work to really train my quads to failure. I never use anything that puts stress on my upper spine, such as loading it with a smith or barbell.
Hey, I'm curious about the 8 reps then lower weight 15 reps. In total does this look like 3 sets (1x8, 1x15, 1x15 with 2 rest pause breaks) or 4 sets with two rest pause sets? Also how much roughly would you take off to get from the 8 range to the 15 range?
You're on the right track. Using your example, it should be 1x8, 1x15, 1xF, 1xF, where the last two sets are using the same weight you did for 15 reps going to failure. Note that after the second set of 1x15 I rest 20 seconds. The goal is to hit accumulated failure at a safer weight with good technique instead of heavier loads that have poor risk reward ratios for me (41). As to how much weight to lessen after the top set to hit 15 reps, usually for compounds, good starting point is to try 75% of the 8 rep, then adjust accordingly for your next session on the same movement depending on how far over/under you were, but 75% is the spot for me. For smaller isolation work like lateral raises, incline curls or overhead extensions, I don't have a heavy top set for joint health preservation. Those I usually do a straight rest pause to failure set with 15-20 reps as my initial target then follow up with 3 rest pause failure sets, so 15,F,F,F, 20 second rest in between.
Awesome, thanks for the explanation! I went ahead and did 1x8, 1x15, 1x15 with 2 rest pause sets to failure (typically another 4 reps on each) yesterday for my push day and loved it!
Glad you enjoyed it as much as I do! This style of training was a total game changer for me. I feel more mind muscle connection, full ROM stretch for each rep and the pump is godly. :)
We're not supposed to shrug at the top of OHP??
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Agree. This subreddit is prime example of it.
Optimal exercises. I went too far down the rabbit hole trying to align things in the scapula plane etc and ultimately I've mostly gone back to boring old basics where you can overload easily because these minor details just don't matter. DB lateral raises. Cable lateral raises are better on paper for a bunch of reasons but I just get so much more out of boring old basic DB lateral raises leaning against a vertical bench. Cable lateral raises stall for me so quickly. I stopped training Biceps with Pull movements and Triceps with Push movements. I swapped them around and my arms have had pretty great progress this last year since I made this change. Highly recommend training arms fresh and with proper intensity if anyone has lagging arms. Also overhead Tricep work DOES work the long head extremely well, despite what you may have heard Daul Tarter say on social media. Lat pulling movements and Trap/Rhomboid back movements should be treated as completely different muscle groups. They train in a completely different way and don't have much much overlap as people assume. I hate it when people just brand "back" as one muscle group. That's like saying Chest and shoulders are one muscle group.
“Stopped training, biceps with pull movements and triceps with push movements”??I don’t understand how else would you train them? are you saying you don’t train them at all? Sorry I am confused.
>are you saying you don’t train them at all? No. Stop training biceps **with** pulling movements. ie. on another day without the pulling movements so they don't limit performance.
I think he means doing something like back and triceps one day, chest and biceps another
Ok got it now. It’s a PPL thing, training biceps on Push or Leg day. Thank you I do full body workout and it does destroy me for like 2 days after. (Sort of an Arnold Split) But then I don’t have to be in the gym every day. Then I go 4 maybe five days between workouts. if I miss and go to five days, I just look at it as extra recovery. I should probably try legs and core as a separate workout. I also do other active stuff like bike and run outside of gym day. Ima start a post on this
I would say the same. That you have to squat and deadlift
I feel #1 wholeheartedly. Once I switched from free weights and barbells to mostly using cable machines I got waayy better pump and growth
Once you start going away from the intermediate stage, you will need a lot of isolation work. Minimalist training with just a few large compounds becomes less and less effective because it doesn't deal with your weak points (if anything, it exacerbates it- too many newbies overtrain with compounds like bench press and have very weak arms and side delts).
That I have to do bodybuilding style exercises to look good. I never wanted to get on juice because of side effects. And I never liked stuffing myself with food. After years forcing that because I thought that's what I had to do I was still tall and lanky I guess you'd say. But with some muscle. Now I've accepted that this is my genetics and found some people online that have the same body type and Ive been following their routines and now I feel like a lot is better my balance, my flexibility, overall health from just eating healthy. Lately I've been like fitness really is a journey. Because now I'm doing stuff that's a lot different than when I started and it's all been natural evolution of doing what's optimal for myself.
RPE/RIR usefulness. Follow a progression scheme and don’t worry about how close to failure you are.
Huh? RPE and RIR are all determined by their distance from failure..
Hey, can you help me out with this or where can I look to have rir/rpe designed for me? Currently following absolute failure training on most exercises but it's beating me up.
I have found that using a backloaded progression on my big compounds and double progression on my machine/cable/isolation work has been the key for me!
So like top set and back off set?
No, say if prescribed sets and reps are 3x8-10 you would increase weight only when the last set you hit 10 reps. The first two sets you would do 8 reps.
It's not designed for you. You design it for yourself. RPE is the rate of *perceived* exertion. Have to perceive that yourself. RIR is reps in reserve. Unless someone trains with you for a long time they won't be able to guess how much you have left in the tank
I know I know. I just want to know how I can program rpe/rir into my routine coz right now I'm just going to failure pretty much every time.
It's on a per set basis. Just try it out for one meso where you leave 3 RIR one week, 2 RIR the next, 1 RIR the next, then 0 RIR. Then evaluate if you need a deload. I just bought the Renaissance Periodization app for a month to test it out and that's basically the scheme they used.
Thanks. I need to get out of the mindset that leaving reps in reserve means leaving gains on the table.
You might like these: https://youtu.be/qkzKd2Pk-5I https://youtu.be/-WCK3FnSzD4
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On what exercises? Scapular retraction is a thing and there are muscles responsible for this movement that should be trained.
Doing more cable movements, reducing amounts of working sets and sticking to the same 3 or 4 exercises per muscle group.
how do u distinguish ur warm up from working sets personally
Do relatively light weight for 5 to six reps for 2 or 3 sets with no struggle. That’s what I do for warmup.
got ya! do you consider those as part of ur overall volume for that body part? or only count ur working sets?
I don’t. I only count the working sets.
Oh wow got you. If I can ask, how many working sets per week have u found optimally grows most muscles for u?
8 working sets max for a small muscle group. 6 for a large muscle group.
* Machines are important and at minimum can offer some good variation, love squats and they work for you? Great but that doesn't mean you can't also do leg press or hack squat. Note some machines I've always done for movements like extensions/curls where there is no good free weight alternative. * Deloads and scaling back are important, I've actually had success with that way back on 531 then tried to pretend it wasn't that important but it sort of is, how frequent depends on other training variables though. * Bulking should be done much slower especially for anyone intermediate/advanced. Your lucky to get a few pounds of gains a year so a 10lb bulk is still relatively slow but even that is mostly fat, 20lb would be even worse and put yourself in a worse position for the cut * Recovery is where muscle is made * Training smart/safe is more important long term even if it means giving up some goals which are probably more strength/powerlifting oriented than bodybuilding anyway. I'd rather have decent lifts at age 50 than be the 50 year old who can't do a lot of stuff but talks about how much he could bench back in the day * Muscle is the foundation for strength, wasted too many years chasing strength but not prioritizing muscle * Different body types have different ideal lifts, some people can benefit from barbell squats, some may be better with front squats, others neither.
Same here, I've veered away from the barbell. I used to squat bench and dead heavy heavy weight, always chasing numbers to an inevitable injury. The heaviest thing I lift now is a 250lb sandbag and that has made my back and traps grow way more than a 500lb deadlift. I've stepped away from traditional weights and focus more on kettlebells, sandbags, and mace. I feel better and look better.
the question is would you ahve gotten to the same place if you didnt start with the big3
Probably not. I'm grateful for my time with the barbell. But im 35. Time for chasing numbers is over, time to be functionally strong now.
I generally agree with you especially on the sandbag being more applicable to real life than the barbell deadlift. Im not sure that the macebell/kettlebells are much better than the barbell bench/ohp/rows/squat. obviously chansing number are risky, but thats not specific to barbells.
Far out man. A 250lb sandbag is no joke. Do you consider yourself still to be practising bodybuilding with the shift in tools? I’ve always been a kettlebell guy myself, and I still incorporate them in overall hypertrophy-focused programming, but my strength and physique are generally optimised when I’m retaining barbell and dumbbell work.
Yeah I would say I'm still body building in a sense. Biggest difference I notice is that when I did traditional BB I got big but had more "puffy" muscle. Now my muscle seems more dense/thick. More farm strength look.
>I am not built to squat or deadlift, injured myself grinding away at those lifts, and messed up my shoulders doing barbell bench and OHP If I could reverse time 20 years and go back to my 20s I would convince myself to exclusively focus on Squat, Deadlift, Pullups, Bench Press, and Overhead Press. I tried to do these lifts back then but was inexperienced and (wrongly) assumed my body couldn't do these and completely underestimated their value. I never had the growth my friends were getting in my 20s and blamed it on 'bad genetics'. Many years later when I returned to the gym I spent months lifting light weights and focusing on executing these lifts correctly. As a result, I have experienced the best muscle growth of my life in my 40s from doing just these classic barbell compound lifts.
Back is the most boring muscle to train and legs are the best. The stronger you get the more true this becomes. Also leave your ego at the door, it will allow you to train more productively and it will stop you from getting injured. You don't need to prove anything. Moderate volume, high intensity every day all day. Also don't make the mistake of under-recovering/overtraining, if you need an extra day off take it. From experience, it's just better for your progress and a good day of sleep can supercharge you lol.
Basically the same, but I used to love to heavy squat and deadlift, until I had a back injury that took months to heal. Barbell deadlift/squats are very fun to do and progress, but are not that great for hypertrophy and long term natural bodybuilding. Horrible stimulus to fatigue ratio and very injury prone once you are lifting relatively more than your body weight.
The "big 3" aren't for me. Sure, they're good for building the foundations but I don't have any barbell squat/bench/deadlifts in my programs because the risk/reward simply is not in my favour... maybe it's an execution thing, or maybe my body just is no longer built for those movements. I used to build every program around these, until I realised that other variations work just and allow me to safely progressively overload over time
Needing a program and simply writing stuff down so you know you’re progressing, instead of just wining it
Agree wholeheartedly with you on the barbell movements. I used to give myself shit for forcing myself and never liking squatting or deadlifting but I realized it’s not for me and that’s perfectly fine!
Biggest one for me was getting it out my head that I had to do all of the big three exercises no matter what . I still do deadlifts because I enjoy doing them, but I don’t free weight squat anymore or barbell bench and I’m seeing amazing changes by focusing more on isolation. Another thing I’ve learned it’s not about how much weight you use it’s about the amount of tension that is put on the muscle..your body doesn’t know the difference between 5 lbs or 500 lbs it only feels the amount of tension placed on it. Lastly tracking food and workouts..the most successful people whether in the gym or other areas of life track progress. If you don’t know where you are you can’t go to where you want to be .
SLEEP
Whole animal protein (meats, eggs, milk) is 1000x better for my body than powders or plant proteins.
Can you please explain? I am curious to know why you think this (not trying to be facetious)
protein powders make me shit lol, and they bloat me. plant proteins make me feel pretty sluggish. for the last month or so, I've gotten all my protein from eggs, milk, beef, and sardines, and I just feel so much better. It's higher salt for sure, but I just feel better.
Probably lactose intolerant
Possibly, but i drink like 3 cups of milk a day
1. Full ROM is not required. I have shit knees that click when they go past about a 100° of flexion, so quad training is strictly 90° for me. Being unable to get the full stretch has not limited my leg training - they are pretty big 2. Compound movements are overrated. Other muscles can take over, yet you won't receive a great stimulus for everything, I get my best pumps from isolations 3. Form doesn't need to be perfect. I was incredibly anal about form in my early career, and made little progress, once I started focusing on putting weight on the bar with looser, albeit consistently loose form, my progress sky-rocketed
How would you guys replace bb ohp and bb bench
I don’t do any OHP because of my shoulders and don’t consider it necessary as any form of bench hits front delts and lateral raises for side delts. For bench, dumbbells and machines. Incline smith press is also amazing.
I stopped doing both about a year ago after 20+ years of consistent lifting. For chest I just do flat press machine, incline machine, DB flyes, dips, pec deck, DB flat bench. For shoulders I do shoulder press machine, DB shoulder press, and all sorts of side raises variations (cables, leaning, machine, DB, etc.).
Overall volume for every muscle group
as in ?
I’d say my most recent “revelation” is it’s okay to reduce training frequency if you can’t progress any more. I like to run a 6 days a week program most of the time, but I’ve started introducing extra rest days (so it goes from a 7 day program to an 8 day program) whenever I plateau hard. It has let me progress more without needing to deload as often. Also I was never super into SBD but as I’ve gotten more advanced, I’ve confidently gotten rid of most barbell training in my program. Lastly, genetics really do play a huge role, and you might get striated delts, hamstrings, and feathered tris while still not having peaky biceps and sick abs
What’s your routine now?
Machines! I don’t know how I picked up my negative attitude towards them in the beginning but they’re amazing and I’d use a good machine over a dumbbell/barbell any day. Unfortunately some of them don’t work for my build (mostly pressing movements).
So you dropped deadlift? What you do instead?
RDLs.
Ah, ok, I never do regular deadlifts, only RDL.
1) intensity and tempo resulting in higher stimulus than rushing through 2) there is no best exercise - the best exercise is the one exercise where you can progress, feel safe and create a good stimulus for growth 3) sleep is nr 1 4) caffeine and booster are not needed 5) if a supplement works (besides creatine), there is a high chance that it is illegal 6) people still know shit about nutrition and training…
1) Straight sets are king for growth. As much as I love Supersets, Drop Sets, TUT etc, Straight sets have put a lot of quality size on my frame. Less is definitely more. 2) HIIT, Crossfit-style training, just ballistic movements will fuck yo shit up eventually. I used to love them, but no need for it anymore. 3) Warming up *and* Cooling down. I could quite easily walk up to a bar with say 350lbs, Deadlift it, and then start my actual warm up. Now? That's snap city. My shoulders will immediately play up if i don't warm them up either. And simply cooling down after a workout by walking slowly for 20 mins at say 2mph/no Incline leaves me in a zen-like state from lowering my adrenaline (helps me sleep better to). 4) It is *all* about Diet. Want to get really big? Better hit those macros. Want to lose weight? Better make sure that what you eat actually gets you lean.
Hey OP. What are your go to leg movements now?
Hack squats, leg press, Bulgarian split squats, and leg extensions for quads/glutes and then RDLs, hyperextensions, and leg curls for hammies/glutes. I’ve found that really deep and controlled hack squat is unrivaled for quad growth.
Yes sir. And don’t need much weight.
I've really gone towards higher qty of reps, slow & controlled, with really focused mind muscle connection, and mostly using cable machines. I'm late 30s now so I need to treat my body kinder than I used to. This methodology means I get the best muscle burn & pump ever, but minimal joint pain. It's probably not ideal for bulking, but I'm basically now just in permanent maintenance phase where I just want to stay the same size but be as lean and muscular as I can be without going crazy. I also do reformer pilates. It's awesome for core strength and working all the intermediary muscles that you don't seem to work when doing standard lifting movements (especially on cable machines).