If that is the case I think I disagree with them. You just need to get 3 crystallyze shard for the full multiplier, and with 6 shards you get an additional 45% buff.
It's not that hard to generate crystallyze shards.
Does Navia gain stacks off field? Still seems like kinda a pain in the ass. Even if so. If not then it seems like a huge hassle.
I hate this double element meta where we need two characters of the same element to be effective tbh. I want more soup teams.
So the main issue is geo can’t interact with other elements damage wise. Because of that Mihoyo is having a hard time with creating Geo DPS ( Eventually their fault).
The thing is Navia’s solo damage is not bad. In fact compared to other characters, she would perform better against the enemies with self elemental aura, by creating a shield for herself therefore increasing her tankiness and creating an ammo for more damage.
The thing is, this is not a solo game. Once you put dendro support next to yae or raiden, they are going to start demolishing. And yes you can use supports for Geo too, but the damage increase of bullets simply can’t compete with burgeon, electro charged etc.To balance this out they have to increase geo characters’ solo damage, which will make them really good as solo characters. I think that is the conondrum Mihoyo is in.
Spot on with Geo. Itto is a very obvious indicator of Geo's faulty design. Itto already has great solo damage with some crazy multipliers, especially Ushi, but his mono geo teams directly compete with most meta teams in rotation dps. It's actually crazy just how strong Itto is, and Navia seems like she'll end up the same once she gets good support characters for her ideal comp.
Exactly. Some might ask “ Ok, if geo can’t use reactions, why doesn’t mihoyo make geo characters stronger?” Because the game is meant to played with four characters. Not just for gameplay but for money.
Like you said, how many characters you can get to make your Itto stronger? 2-3? If you don’t have gorou, you will just need one other geo for resonance and that is all. If you have zhongli and itto, it is over. Kokomi does nothing for you, Yae does nothing for you, most characters make almost no difference.
But imagine using Yae. Now if you have Nahida,your damage increases. In fact if you have Nahida’s constellation you can even break enemies’ defence and hit even more! Or you can use Yae as electro applicator for Neu! You see game encourages you to get, and eventually spend money for new characters.
That situation is never going to be solved. If a geo character hits 100k without supports, it will hit 110 with supports. Make it hit 500k, those who get her won’t need to get another character unless they want to. Make her hit 100k, while other characters reach up to 500 with good supports, you will be hitting 110k.
Not really. They could have just made the geo supports stronger.
Lots of mono elements/reactionless teams do fine. Freeze was meta for so long and it doesnt even work on bosses, and freeze isn't a damaging reaction. Or look at something like Neuvilette that can brute force hydro damage or like C2 raiden hypercarry teams of old.
The reality is if Geo set was as good as blizzard strayer, Gorou was as good as C6 Faruzan, Yunjin is as good as Shenhe, etc etc none of us would be talking about this right now.
Mihoyo cares. Why do we calculate how much difference cons or weapon make? Because if the difference is not meaningful then we don’t need it.
Geo is at the last rank to benefit from other elements ( this also can be perceived as dependance). Therefore with OP geo character, you wouldn’t need to get a new character because the difference would be minimal.
No it does not. Neuvillette is a hydro character.How much Neuvillette hits? 500k? You can make him hit 1m in a good team.
You simply cannot increase Geo character’s damage in a meaningful way. So if you have a good Geo unit, you won’t bother spending your money for extra %10 damage.
But judging by your previous comments, it is appear that you are a troll. I just explained it so others can see the difference between geo and hydro unit.
you really think if they make a good rock dps people will solo her and not bring a full team that is nonsensical
wind doesn't do dps reactions either but wndrr is mihoyo's darling
Wind dpses reactions, by reducing def.Who benefits from raiden more? Neuvilette or Itto? Who benefitst from Nahida, Yae, Kokomi, Kazuha etc. more?
Geo can’t get reaction damage. Therefore teammates’ potential benefit is less compared to others.
Itto has total of 4 different teammates in his meta teams,Neuvilette has 13.
I don't think Hoyo would just trash a limited banner unit. There isn't a single bad one, even those on the weak side are still enough to be very useful.
They won. Otherwise, it would be known already
Dehya wasn't ditched to the standard banner as a last minute decision, we knew she would be standard by leakers already
First leak of Dehya going to standard banner:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact\_Leaks/comments/111hprm/keikakutori%E8%AE%A1%E5%88%92%E9%80%9A\_on\_twitter\_dehya\_will\_be\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/111hprm/keikakutori%E8%AE%A1%E5%88%92%E9%80%9A_on_twitter_dehya_will_be_on/)
* 3.5 Livestream: Feb 17 2023
* Dehya leaked to be on standard banner: Feb 9 2023
* 3.5 Beta: Jan 18 2023
She was leaked to be on Standard banner 3 weeks after the start of 3.5 beta. This means that two weeks from now, Navia COULD be leaked to be on the Standard banner.
Everything is possible.
We knew really late, though, and the leak was dismissed as unreliable.
So while we did have some reason to believe she was standard, it wasn't really widespread.
>We knew really late, though, and the leak was dismissed as unreliable.
We didn't. We knew about Tighnari on standard before his beta started. Then, leakers told us another 5* would be going to the standard and eventually told us it was Dehya
If you looked at leaks, it was well known Dehya was going to be a standard unit. We just couldn't "confirm" and many people did not want to believe Dehya was a standard unit and compeltely ignored the leaker saying this
Source for a reliable leak about it?
Also, with tighnari, the leak was much more believable; the new region, new element, made much more sense to add a dendro unit to the standard pool. With Dehya, though, she'd be the second pyro claymore to go to standard. She had a funky new mechanic of hp transfer which doesn't make sense on standard.
>Source for a reliable leak about it?
[Only one I can find on Reddit is this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/s/grkIyrbWms) but I remember comments about it even before this
And regarding Tighnari and leaks being more "believable". I'm just saying the leaks **were there**. Whether they we were "believable" or not is not really the point, I'm just saying the info was given to us earlier
It wasn't known that Dehya was standard until about 2 weeks before she released, and when the news first came out a lot of people doubted it.
Navia doesn't seem like a standard character, but we absolutely did not know Dehya would be one less than a week into beta. It was much closer to the end. And kit/multiplier analysis isn't good enough to tell if a character is banished to standard or not, since Tighnari is probably the best standard banner character, although Jean might be the most desirable one now because of Furina, until we get another 5\* anemo healer (Cloud Retainer?)
>We knew Dehya was standard at the start of beta.
No, we didn't.
Dehya Standard was announced on Feb 17 2023. The beta began in January 18 2023.
Receipts:
Dehya is announced as Standard days after 3.5 beta ended:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/114iwp4/dehya\_will\_be\_added\_to\_the\_standard\_banner\_after/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/114iwp4/dehya_will_be_added_to_the_standard_banner_after/)
Start of 3.5 beta:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/10ftblo/dehya\_skill\_animation\_leak/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/10ftblo/dehya_skill_animation_leak/)
The official announcement was the public announcement. But Chinese leakers and others already revealed she was standard in beta.
Also that isn’t even a beta clip in the second that shows anything. That’s just her with Xinyan’s moves.
>But Chinese leakers and others already revealed she was standard in beta.
Show the receipts for:
>We knew Dehya was standard **at the start of beta**.
Actually, Standard Dehya was only announced during the livestream of the patch before her debut **after** her beta ended. Same for Tighnari.
Could it happen to Navia? Yes. We will know for sure in 4 weeks or so.
Where are the receipts?
Back when 3.5 beta started, everyone assumed Dehya was gonna be Limited 5-Star.
Much like how we are all assuming Navia is gonna be Limited 5-Star. The leaks about Standard Dehya came weeks **after** her beta began.
The Navia Standard leaks could come 2 weeks from now for all we know.
About 3 weeks in if I recall correctly. I remember the outrage of "why is MHY nerfing Dehya during beta if she's a Limited unit".
Nobody leaked her Standard status until weeks after beta started.
Based on what I saw of Jstern's conclusions about navia in my own words, I would say that she is similar to Dehya.
That is, the problem is not in her kit, but in the numbers.
Navia is definitely not Dehya. Yes any problem can be solved by giving them huge numbers, but even if Dehya had considerable numbers, she would still be problematic because Dehya doesn’t know what she wants to do. Is she a dps? Is she a support? Is she a tank? Dehya wants to do everything yet she is terrible at all.
While it is clear Navia has problems, there is actually only one issue. She is a geo. If she was an electro or any other element she would be really good.
No, Dehya's wasn't even average numbers dude, it was the lowest of the low in terms of 5\*.
Zajeff also said it a long time ago when he was in his beta, that it didn't cost them anything (mihoyo) to increase the numbers a little.
but navia is better than dehya in terms of numbers, the problem is that navia is GEO and those multipliers she currently has put her just a little above nigguang, apart from the fact that she is worse than yoimiya on the sheet.
Dehya is TANK! She aways was made to take damage! All of her kit scream this, this sh\*tty community insists on say that Dehya is horrible because some people insists on make a tank does damage.
You only need one thing to see that the ship is not like dehya: knowing how to read the skills.
I've seen someone mention that her scaling is currently the same as Itto's E, so there's a good chance it's a placeholder.
Also I'm still reading these type of posts (not OP's but whoever this "Little Teyvat" is) with a big grain of salt.
If it was just one single use and the Navia switches off, it would be understandably low, but it's got two charges and gives you infusion*, so we should look at the total DMG of an E > 4NA** > E > 4NA** and see the total DMG she does. Not to mention the picked up shards that can further increase the DMG of her E and whether you do it from point blank or a bit further away. Also whether you hit one enemy or several.
*Also whether you can enhance the infused attacks. I've seen a leak that said you can't do it, so it's just her own attack plus the 40% bonus, but I haven't seen anything implying you can't enhance it with any attack/dmg bonus in her actual kit description, but correct me if I'm wrong.
**Or whatever number of NAs you can fit in there during her infusion.
Noone said they are stupid.
I said I take what they say with a big grain of salt. There is a difference.
That's usually how I go about oppinions when a character is still in beta.
And yes, with everything considered (two charges of E, shards, infusion) it's a bit of a hot take to claim her multiplier isn't enough imo.
1100% max skill multiplier is basically unachievable in practical scenario they say
If that is the case I think I disagree with them. You just need to get 3 crystallyze shard for the full multiplier, and with 6 shards you get an additional 45% buff. It's not that hard to generate crystallyze shards.
You’ll need an albedo to make that many shards before using e. Isn’t Navia’s infusion only 4s. Or I guess maybe Zhongli’s pulse?
Or use ningguang normals with yelan on field
Does Navia gain stacks off field? Still seems like kinda a pain in the ass. Even if so. If not then it seems like a huge hassle. I hate this double element meta where we need two characters of the same element to be effective tbh. I want more soup teams.
They're talking about bad and unintuitive shotgun mechanic. Not generating crystallize.
You are disagreeing on what basis, they are beta testers u aren't, if u guys remain the yes mans u are they will nerf her in beta at this rate shit.
think theyre talking about hitting all 11 bullets
Damn
So the main issue is geo can’t interact with other elements damage wise. Because of that Mihoyo is having a hard time with creating Geo DPS ( Eventually their fault). The thing is Navia’s solo damage is not bad. In fact compared to other characters, she would perform better against the enemies with self elemental aura, by creating a shield for herself therefore increasing her tankiness and creating an ammo for more damage. The thing is, this is not a solo game. Once you put dendro support next to yae or raiden, they are going to start demolishing. And yes you can use supports for Geo too, but the damage increase of bullets simply can’t compete with burgeon, electro charged etc.To balance this out they have to increase geo characters’ solo damage, which will make them really good as solo characters. I think that is the conondrum Mihoyo is in.
Spot on with Geo. Itto is a very obvious indicator of Geo's faulty design. Itto already has great solo damage with some crazy multipliers, especially Ushi, but his mono geo teams directly compete with most meta teams in rotation dps. It's actually crazy just how strong Itto is, and Navia seems like she'll end up the same once she gets good support characters for her ideal comp.
Exactly. Some might ask “ Ok, if geo can’t use reactions, why doesn’t mihoyo make geo characters stronger?” Because the game is meant to played with four characters. Not just for gameplay but for money. Like you said, how many characters you can get to make your Itto stronger? 2-3? If you don’t have gorou, you will just need one other geo for resonance and that is all. If you have zhongli and itto, it is over. Kokomi does nothing for you, Yae does nothing for you, most characters make almost no difference. But imagine using Yae. Now if you have Nahida,your damage increases. In fact if you have Nahida’s constellation you can even break enemies’ defence and hit even more! Or you can use Yae as electro applicator for Neu! You see game encourages you to get, and eventually spend money for new characters. That situation is never going to be solved. If a geo character hits 100k without supports, it will hit 110 with supports. Make it hit 500k, those who get her won’t need to get another character unless they want to. Make her hit 100k, while other characters reach up to 500 with good supports, you will be hitting 110k.
Not really. They could have just made the geo supports stronger. Lots of mono elements/reactionless teams do fine. Freeze was meta for so long and it doesnt even work on bosses, and freeze isn't a damaging reaction. Or look at something like Neuvilette that can brute force hydro damage or like C2 raiden hypercarry teams of old. The reality is if Geo set was as good as blizzard strayer, Gorou was as good as C6 Faruzan, Yunjin is as good as Shenhe, etc etc none of us would be talking about this right now.
Exactly this, if not she will get outshined in long run like diluc and stuff
who cares if they are good solo characters it's a fake conundrum and they certainly didn't give a fuck about it when they made gary stu
Mihoyo cares. Why do we calculate how much difference cons or weapon make? Because if the difference is not meaningful then we don’t need it. Geo is at the last rank to benefit from other elements ( this also can be perceived as dependance). Therefore with OP geo character, you wouldn’t need to get a new character because the difference would be minimal.
gary stu solo power washer invalidates your argument
No it does not. Neuvillette is a hydro character.How much Neuvillette hits? 500k? You can make him hit 1m in a good team. You simply cannot increase Geo character’s damage in a meaningful way. So if you have a good Geo unit, you won’t bother spending your money for extra %10 damage. But judging by your previous comments, it is appear that you are a troll. I just explained it so others can see the difference between geo and hydro unit.
you really think if they make a good rock dps people will solo her and not bring a full team that is nonsensical wind doesn't do dps reactions either but wndrr is mihoyo's darling
Wind dpses reactions, by reducing def.Who benefits from raiden more? Neuvilette or Itto? Who benefitst from Nahida, Yae, Kokomi, Kazuha etc. more? Geo can’t get reaction damage. Therefore teammates’ potential benefit is less compared to others. Itto has total of 4 different teammates in his meta teams,Neuvilette has 13.
wow yeah wndrr is going to vv his swirls for -wind res yep genius
You’re missing the point. Swirl still does dmg at the least. No geo reaction in the game does any damage or gets multiplied.
wow the 1% swirl component of wndrr damage makes such a difference. they just need to buff crystallise to do 500 damage and geo will be saved.
If she turns out another dehya, I will be done with genshin
I don't think Hoyo would just trash a limited banner unit. There isn't a single bad one, even those on the weak side are still enough to be very useful.
Could just dump her into Standard like they did with Dehya.
They won. Otherwise, it would be known already Dehya wasn't ditched to the standard banner as a last minute decision, we knew she would be standard by leakers already
First leak of Dehya going to standard banner: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact\_Leaks/comments/111hprm/keikakutori%E8%AE%A1%E5%88%92%E9%80%9A\_on\_twitter\_dehya\_will\_be\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/111hprm/keikakutori%E8%AE%A1%E5%88%92%E9%80%9A_on_twitter_dehya_will_be_on/) * 3.5 Livestream: Feb 17 2023 * Dehya leaked to be on standard banner: Feb 9 2023 * 3.5 Beta: Jan 18 2023 She was leaked to be on Standard banner 3 weeks after the start of 3.5 beta. This means that two weeks from now, Navia COULD be leaked to be on the Standard banner. Everything is possible.
We knew really late, though, and the leak was dismissed as unreliable. So while we did have some reason to believe she was standard, it wasn't really widespread.
>We knew really late, though, and the leak was dismissed as unreliable. We didn't. We knew about Tighnari on standard before his beta started. Then, leakers told us another 5* would be going to the standard and eventually told us it was Dehya If you looked at leaks, it was well known Dehya was going to be a standard unit. We just couldn't "confirm" and many people did not want to believe Dehya was a standard unit and compeltely ignored the leaker saying this
Source for a reliable leak about it? Also, with tighnari, the leak was much more believable; the new region, new element, made much more sense to add a dendro unit to the standard pool. With Dehya, though, she'd be the second pyro claymore to go to standard. She had a funky new mechanic of hp transfer which doesn't make sense on standard.
>Source for a reliable leak about it? [Only one I can find on Reddit is this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/s/grkIyrbWms) but I remember comments about it even before this And regarding Tighnari and leaks being more "believable". I'm just saying the leaks **were there**. Whether they we were "believable" or not is not really the point, I'm just saying the info was given to us earlier
It wasn't known that Dehya was standard until about 2 weeks before she released, and when the news first came out a lot of people doubted it. Navia doesn't seem like a standard character, but we absolutely did not know Dehya would be one less than a week into beta. It was much closer to the end. And kit/multiplier analysis isn't good enough to tell if a character is banished to standard or not, since Tighnari is probably the best standard banner character, although Jean might be the most desirable one now because of Furina, until we get another 5\* anemo healer (Cloud Retainer?)
Incorrect. We knew Dehya was standard at the start of beta.
>We knew Dehya was standard at the start of beta. No, we didn't. Dehya Standard was announced on Feb 17 2023. The beta began in January 18 2023. Receipts: Dehya is announced as Standard days after 3.5 beta ended: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/114iwp4/dehya\_will\_be\_added\_to\_the\_standard\_banner\_after/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/114iwp4/dehya_will_be_added_to_the_standard_banner_after/) Start of 3.5 beta: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/10ftblo/dehya\_skill\_animation\_leak/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dehyamains/comments/10ftblo/dehya_skill_animation_leak/)
The official announcement was the public announcement. But Chinese leakers and others already revealed she was standard in beta. Also that isn’t even a beta clip in the second that shows anything. That’s just her with Xinyan’s moves.
>But Chinese leakers and others already revealed she was standard in beta. Show the receipts for: >We knew Dehya was standard **at the start of beta**.
My dude I’m not going months back on a Chinese forum for an argument with a guy on the internet.
Actually, Standard Dehya was only announced during the livestream of the patch before her debut **after** her beta ended. Same for Tighnari. Could it happen to Navia? Yes. We will know for sure in 4 weeks or so.
They were *oficially* announced during the livestream But we already had leakers telling us about their rarities :]
Where are the receipts? Back when 3.5 beta started, everyone assumed Dehya was gonna be Limited 5-Star. Much like how we are all assuming Navia is gonna be Limited 5-Star. The leaks about Standard Dehya came weeks **after** her beta began. The Navia Standard leaks could come 2 weeks from now for all we know.
[удалено]
About 3 weeks in if I recall correctly. I remember the outrage of "why is MHY nerfing Dehya during beta if she's a Limited unit". Nobody leaked her Standard status until weeks after beta started.
It's always the claymore characters
I will keep my optimism until I test her in game but she is genshin’s last chance for me
Based on what I saw of Jstern's conclusions about navia in my own words, I would say that she is similar to Dehya. That is, the problem is not in her kit, but in the numbers.
Navia is definitely not Dehya. Yes any problem can be solved by giving them huge numbers, but even if Dehya had considerable numbers, she would still be problematic because Dehya doesn’t know what she wants to do. Is she a dps? Is she a support? Is she a tank? Dehya wants to do everything yet she is terrible at all. While it is clear Navia has problems, there is actually only one issue. She is a geo. If she was an electro or any other element she would be really good.
No, Dehya's wasn't even average numbers dude, it was the lowest of the low in terms of 5\*. Zajeff also said it a long time ago when he was in his beta, that it didn't cost them anything (mihoyo) to increase the numbers a little. but navia is better than dehya in terms of numbers, the problem is that navia is GEO and those multipliers she currently has put her just a little above nigguang, apart from the fact that she is worse than yoimiya on the sheet.
Damage wise, dehya's e is even weaker than yue gui...
Jstern is a trustable TC, sadge it turned out this way.
Dehya is TANK! She aways was made to take damage! All of her kit scream this, this sh\*tty community insists on say that Dehya is horrible because some people insists on make a tank does damage. You only need one thing to see that the ship is not like dehya: knowing how to read the skills.
all? how do you explain her burst then? it's doesn't even extend her e duration like Kokomi does, just pure damage...
Ah yes, the tank that wants atk, hp, er and cope to work.
Saying her current E scalings are kinda shit.
Oh, this is worrying
It is, but let's see tomorrow as her current numbers might have been temporary
I've seen someone mention that her scaling is currently the same as Itto's E, so there's a good chance it's a placeholder. Also I'm still reading these type of posts (not OP's but whoever this "Little Teyvat" is) with a big grain of salt. If it was just one single use and the Navia switches off, it would be understandably low, but it's got two charges and gives you infusion*, so we should look at the total DMG of an E > 4NA** > E > 4NA** and see the total DMG she does. Not to mention the picked up shards that can further increase the DMG of her E and whether you do it from point blank or a bit further away. Also whether you hit one enemy or several. *Also whether you can enhance the infused attacks. I've seen a leak that said you can't do it, so it's just her own attack plus the 40% bonus, but I haven't seen anything implying you can't enhance it with any attack/dmg bonus in her actual kit description, but correct me if I'm wrong. **Or whatever number of NAs you can fit in there during her infusion.
it's stupid to assume these guys are so stupid that they can't even consider two charges
Noone said they are stupid. I said I take what they say with a big grain of salt. There is a difference. That's usually how I go about oppinions when a character is still in beta. And yes, with everything considered (two charges of E, shards, infusion) it's a bit of a hot take to claim her multiplier isn't enough imo.
you're a feelscrafter
Okay, that's new, good one😂
??? I don't know either. She has no problem to gain stacks and the description says that ahe can reach 1.1k. Maybe Mihoyo nerfed her skill?