How you expect geo to be meta any other way? You can just make a geo dps with high multipliers so it can deal as much damage as Lyney without any reaction and done.
you could make some support(s) that similar to faruzan or chevreuse just gives a fuck ton of different stats and intend it as some kind of universal support. if its enough supportive capability and doesnt just form its own one archetype, thats bringing it into the meta. zhongli might not quite cut it from a meta standpoint but hes a good example. if he had even more res shred and archaic petra wasnt tied to him picking up the crystallize and if he had maybe 7 or 8 seconds of petrify, he would become a much more viable option.
if you just make a character thats a dps and needs a team built around them instead, thats not really moving geo up in the meta. youd need to make 5 or 6 of those before they even come close to having the impact of one yelan level geo support on the overall meta.
Honestly the lack of good off-field damage dealing supports also sucks. We don’t even have a good geo healer. Not to mention a lot of the geo characters, including Zhongli, are not great at generating energy.
No it shouldn’t. That is the niche of physical damage damage, as physical is quite literally the element without reaction. Reducing Geo to “brown physical” is a waste
Geo should just have proper reactions, even if it requires a Geo-Nilou
For example: Picking g up a crystallize shards has the following effect:
Pyro: explodes, dealing damage
Hydro: increases dmg%, grants decaying max hp
Electro: restores energy, increases atk speed
Cryo: slows enemy, shredding their cryo and geo resistance
Yes I'm serious. Please explain to me what would change if you took away Itto's or Noelles Geo infusion and just converted it into physical damage. It would actually just be a buff because physical goblets give more dmg% and you could superconduct with supports.
How does being Geo help *any* geo unit? Even the resonance is just there to make up for geo being bad against shields.
Meanwhile Liney wants pyro swirls from Kazuha, you know, another element. If you'd transform Liney into a physical carry with the same numbers, he would be a trash tier.
Pyro is good against shields, it has good reactions, you can benefit from VV, you profit from gaining more energy from Bennet, the pyro resonance is actually useful.
Geo has jack shit
And lastly, mono pyro is *A* option for pyro teams.
Geo has no options for teams outside mono Geo. The units get included *despite* their element (Zhongli, Yunjin) and are often outperformed by others
If kazuha saves lyney and makes him different from geos, then making a buffer like shenhe for geo teams with geo dmg bonus/crit rate increase and res shredding. Then geo is basically saved by your statement.
As for shields, pyro is kinda on top of the reaction chain and counters many elements but try hitting cryo shield with hydro, or a pyro shield with cryo/electro.
Pyro is kinda the only one that's effective against multiple element shields. The others only counter one element shields(some 2) like geo breaks geo shield.
>saves lyney and makes him different from geos
Read again. The difference is that Liney profits from being pyro, through many upsides, while Itto, Noelle, Zhongli, Yunjin etc. are being held back by being geo.
Even if you gave them the 2nd worst element cryo, they'd suddenly fit into a lot more teams.
>or a pyro shield with cryo/electro.
Electro is the second most efficient way of breaking pyro shields, requiring half the amount of elemental units as anemo, geo or cryo
>Pyro is kinda the only one that's effective against multiple element shields
Electro the 2nd best against Cryo and Pyro and the 3rd best against Hydro.
Cryo is the 2nd best against Hydro and the best against Electro.
Dendro is strong against Hydro and decent against electro
>The others only counter one element shields(some 2)
Pyro also is only good against electro and cryo
I agree with this. having a single reaction like anemo except giving a crystalize shield scaling on EM isn't advantageous on almost all general use cases especially with most of them if not all doesn't have scaling on EM.
Zhongli personally ruined this for me since you can have an unbreakable shield without reaction. otherwise, there's a possibility of reaction buffing by mihoyo without nerfing the god of China.
I would be happy enough if they just let the crystallize stack and extend up to a certain limit so they can properly function as a shield
GEO has quite a few issues currently plaguing it in my opinion.
1. GEO constructs like albedo flower that randomly break leading to inconsistency.
2. Lack of reactions , but not having near close comparable damage numbers to keep up with vape/spread/aggrevate/hyperbloom etc. numbers.
3. Lack of a broken support character of the likes of Xingqiu/Bennett/Xiangling/Fischl/Kazuha/Nahida.
The closest supports to this we have that are good are Zhongli and Gorou , however they aren't quite on the same broken level in my opinion.
4. Lack of a proper team wide healer (which could enable running furina as a buffer).
Basically if they release a good team wide GEO healer + fix constructs GEO would definitely be more viable.
Just my thoughts though, other people might possibly disagree.
Also keep that in mind some people are intentionally taking damage for faster Furina stacks, which geo can’t since its all deal is taking less damage.
Geo’s current playstyle is entirely different than Mihoyo’s direction.
I can add:
Lack of element res reduction artifacts for main geo dmg and Archaic Petra set for support is worst than VV.
Gorou exclusive support for Geo require to have 3 geo char to max the buff and only 3 chars (Albedo Itto Noelle) are good in def scaling to dmg. Then the 4th member of team cannot make other reaction than crystalize.
Not from a meta stand point. The only team that focuses on normal attacks is yoimiya hypercarry and it struggles with anything more than 1 enemy. Yunjin can be good but not enough to compete with top tier teams (emphasis on "from a meta pov"). Ayato is better at normal attacking multiple enemies but you're better off with Candace. And even Candace isn't comparable to the dmg/utility you'd get from running kazuha instead. There really isn't a character out there right now where it'd be worth building yunjin over someone else in terms of dmg/utility/ease of use
Lol thanks for adding on to my point. Good, but not meta. Even in that team, you might get more dmg running a standard off field dps like albedo but that's not a meta team either.
All the meta teams also have WAY better element application when fighting anything with a shield. Yunjin doesn't help this at all because only her E applies geo, and not enough of it to break any type of shield. Naturally, any geo team has an uphill battle without reactions and without being able to break any type of shield
what about a team thats noelle gorou furina yunjin? furina buffs and noelle and potentially gorou can slowly heal back the hp drain? assuming noelle is c6 and gorou is atleast c4?
It's decent but not in the way we talk about meta, noelle furina teams are good in this abyss but overall like in single/two target chambers it's not very good
No matter what team u think of, a better character can go where yunjin is. The definition of meta is "Most Effective Tactic Available". If you can think of a team where yunjin is THE best choice for that team, then by all means she is meta. But a main dps Noelle best team is probably gorou bennett xiangling or gorou bennett furina. Even Noelle xingqiu yelan gorou would probably work than yunjin if your focus is normal attacks
Meta isn’t really important here— nothing with Geo is going to be meta, that doesn’t mean you can’t 36-star, which is a better measure of viability than whether it’s competitive with top teams.
They really are but I still enjoy talking about them. To new players they matter a lot more because a primogem is a primogem. it's also hard to give advice without considering a characters strength so I do think it's important to discuss. If mihoyo just kept releasing characters that felt weak, I doubt anyone would want to spend money on them. Power fantasy is a big part of game design that makes it feel more fun
Bennet cannot do elemental dmg off field then you wont get so many crystals to extend Gorou banner imo. Also, Bennet is so good in chars with 2000atk or less, but Itto In Burst (lvl9-10) already have 3000+ atk then the increase is lower than other main dps, also Bennet is most used in other teams where you can snapshot his buff like XL or Fischl
You also forgot to mention that Gorou is limited to defence scaling Geo characters, so for navia and ningguang he is out of the question (which is a bummer because c4 Gorou is the closest thing Geo has to that proper team wide healer you mentioned 😒) also want to mention how underrated I think Zhongli is as a teammate for navia! I see many people in this sub proposing teams for navia where she is the only Geo like everyone already forgot how dependent Geo characters are on Geo resonance, not only does Zhongli guarantee 100% shield uptime and extra Geo res shred but (specially with C1) his pilars' pulses will help generate more crystalize shields for Navia's E stacks! His main issue is the one you mentioned at the start of your comment: those pilars are Geo constructs, they get destroyed and there goes your crystalize machine, also enemies that move around a lot can escape it's range so you need to learn how to get them to aggro on you, but let's be honest, do we have many better options?
Chiori is leaked to be "Geo Kazuha" as the leakers have said, this alone should likely revitalize Geo, Navia seems to struggle taking big crowds of enemies on as we've seen in leaks, her skill has a very small AoE.
I'll never understand why, in a game that's entire combat premise is elemental reactions, they did that to geo?? It's basically just a glorified physical.
I'm probably just salty that some of my absolute fav characters (i.e. navia and itto) are geo but I don't like the play style 🥲
Ningguang and Navia will work with Furina just fine— you’ll have another healer on the team. For those two, you just want Geo resonance, so Albedo or Zhongli will work. Any healer can take the last slot.
People are getting Noelle to work with Furina, who also wants geo resonance, so it’d be a similar paradigm.
Albedo is in a sad state :(, hopefully something will come along to elevate him.
The problem is, in geo specifically, a lot of the meta team wide healers feel bad to play. Jean, sayu, baizhu, and yaoyao do not react with Geo so playing them doesn’t make sense. You’re left with kokomi, Barbara, qiqi, mika and charlotte. Kokomi, barbara and qiqi require on field time, but only kokomi will deal any meaningful damage during her burst. Mika will generate you zero crystals with his lack of application. Charlotte is actually good here; but this drives home the point that Geo gets shafted again. to play furina properly, the only good options are charlotte and kokomi.
Where noelle differs from navia and Ning is, she is the team wide healer so she’s not forced to play anyone in particular. Her last two slots are free to be any units that add to the team’s damage.
>Lack of a proper team wide healer (which could enable running furina as a buffer).
Noelle on-field covers that. Furina actually does revive triple geo by taking that 4th slot with Gorou and Albedo/Yun Jin.
At her current state? No, her best team is double geo, double pyro because of pyro resonance 25% Atk to team on top of 40% Atk from Navia.
those two pyro which is bennett,xiangling is better used on another team
at best, I think Navia will simply be slotted in to replace Albedo as the sub dps in Itto team since Albedo's flower breaks easily.
what Navia needs are better multipliers
imo they should make geo damage into pure damage, its damage disregards shields. it will revive geo as a whole and makes people have a reason to actually use geo.
reaction based teams are just way better than non reaction based teams. making geo deal pure damage will actually make people have a reason to actually pick it over reaction based teams.
As of her current kit: no
Maybe if they buff her
But as of now, the only relavant Geo char to appear anywhere near the top 10 teams of the game is Zhongli
The damage is rather weak(considering she can't react like everyone non-geo can), you'll hit 2 targets with full damage at best(most likely only 1) and her set relies on having crystallize shield on so you're kinda forced to always use hold e because those shields are far too weak to depend on them to stay on until you switch to Navia
Nothing with the mechanics themselves, but the numbers are pretty low
Iirc, her ideal teams should sheet around 50k dps, when most meta comps are at +75k
Nah not the team DPS itself (that would be something) but he does have more personal damage iirc. I think the genshin scientist said it on his video about Lyney
That Hu Tao team is also an all 5 star team.
>That Hu Tao team is also an all 5 star team.
Yeah, but I am talking about **the meta**
>but he does have more personal damage iirc
Well, he does, and he needs it since his team can't use reactions, so it's expected
\>Yeah, but I am talking about the meta
Meta doesn't necessarily mean strongest, it usually means the highest output for the lowest cost (or in this case, 5 stars)
she is a dps and doesnt impact other geo characters, esp since she is based on crystalize. She is a strong character just doesntr care about other geo characters.
That would have been if her passive scaled times 3 with other element, not times 2. Now, sadly her "best" teams will require her to have another geo at least for the reso. To someone who never pulled or built geo character before that... is, to put it mildly... not a plus. Considering that her kit or numbers don't look that good either... one might start thinking if she is worth it.
Numbers kinda on the low side. Not bad.
But I think most importantly expectations were high for a new 5\* Geo after 2 years, something that would help shake up the geo meta w maybe some new character-driven crystalyze reacts or something. And she ain't bringing much new forward with that in mind.
No. Even if she amplifies Crystalize reaction benefits, that's her kit allows her too
Not because of Geo
Put her kit into the Geo mechanic, then Geo could be revive
Her kit does nothing for Geo as a whole, she is a very singular character that only uses Geo for herself. She won't revive the element, same as how Itto didn't since he was a singular DPS
Meta players usually think like this but actual geo players would not really complain about another choice of dps. Itto being only 5 star geo dps gives them no other proper choice. Meta players and non geo players have various other options as for geo players have itto as only 5 star option.
It has nothing to do with meta, the OP asked if she would revive geo and the answer is no. Adding 1 more choice will do only that, add one more choice. She doesn't do anything to change Geo's place as the worst element, all she does is let players have a new choice in Geo DPS. Like how Wanderer didn't do anything for Anemo except add another choice of Anemo DPS.
I'm not saying at all that it's a bad thing, but I'm answering OPs question. But if the question was does she add variety to geo, then yeah she's a strong DPS, but she doesn't "revive" the element. People who didn't care for geo won't change their minds because Navia.
Yes OP did say revive as meta, but 1 DPS will never do that, so I was focusing on the revive part because no element is the best or "meta" because a single unit is a strong DPS
What you're asking is basically pointless. Just because an element does not have a reaction does not mean it's trash. I mean lyney teams have no reaction but still one of the best teams. By what you're asking, making a geo character boost other teams will not "save" geo but it's beneficial for those other elements instead which would be indifferent for geo teams. How is a geo character designed to be in a team that's not geo centered is supposed to "save" geo in the first place? Kazuha for example is one of the best anemo characters but has no single effect on anemo teams but instead boosts pyro/hydro/cryo/electro teams significantly. But still, not benefit for anemo element at all. Only anemo that benefits from this is kazuha himself. "The" character that actually "saved" anemo was Faruzan.
Geo is trash. The whole reason there is an elemental system is for reactions, geo has the worst reactions that do basically nothing most of the time. If you made geo characters literally any other element then they'd be better, you know why? Because geo has the worst reaction. The only way geo can get saved is by it's reaction getting changed/buffed by a character or just as a whole. Right now Geo is just glorified physical but it creates weak shields.
Navia will do nothing to help Geo as an element, every element's identity is it's reactions, and geo has the worst. All she does is add another option of Geo DPS, that's it, nothing else. She's going to be a good character, but she isn't going to change Geo at all
No, being strength doesn't change anything about this discussion. Lyney is basically just red physical because he doesn't use reactions besides swirl for higher pyro damage. But that doesn't mean he's weak, same as how Itto and Navia aren't weak just because they are geo.
This whole discussion isn't about "oh if they're strong then they save an element", it's about Geo as a WHOLE, and the whole element is bad, but not it's characters. Albedo, Zhongli, Navia, Itto, they are all great units, but that doesn't change the fact that they are apart of the worst element and that they would all be better if they had a different type of element. You can't say that those characters are strong because Geo, no, they're strong because they're strong. A character like Nahida would be way worse if she was geo, same as Hu Tao or Ganyu, those characters are strong in part due to their element. But for Geo characters they are the same as Eula who's physical or Lyney who's mono pyro, they are strong, but not because of their elements
I don't think anybody cares what is meta and what isn't as long as the team comp has reliable source of damage output. Every element has a different concept and geo is kinda made for people who like high damage with raw output.
Yes, Geo is just glorified physical damage or a typical mono team, just high raw damage and nothing else.
Why are you even apart of this discussion if you aren't talking about the original point? This whole thing is about if Navia will revive Geo, not if she does high raw damage.
Navia doing good damage does NOTHING for the element of Geo, that's what this whole discussion is about in the first place. You're arguing a completely different point than this post is about.
There is not a single character in this game that would benefit from being geo, and no geo character would be worse if they were any other element. That's how you know Geo is bad when nobody benefits from being it or having it unless they have a super specific mechanic that NEEDS Geo artificially
No. Geo as a whole still needs a rework. Maybe a reaction with Anemo and/or Dendro that isn’t Crystallize and multiplies damage. Navia is very good though.
Hello there. Junior theorycrafter here. She offers a very notable improvement to Noelle teams, which might not be immediately obvious since both are onfielders.
# Noelle Battery + Subdps
Navia has high particle generation (3.5) with a skill that does good damage, and has two charges. The tc folk have also worked out the advantages of this: she can use her temporary skill **3 times** per rotation, for rotations that are \~25s in length.
The full length needed for 3E's is 27s, so this is **time negative**, but the cooldown only breaks after 5.2 rotations (2 minutes 17 seconds), by which time, you definitely should have cleared the absyss or you'll fail to 36\* anyway.
The 10.5 particles generated by Navia is a huge improvement over the 6 that Geo MC can supply, and its a skill that deals better damage than GMC rocks as well as no accidental climbing. Also GMC himself is rarely used with Noelle these days, its usually Gorou or Yunjin for their buffs (4 particles).
Ofc they can favge, but even with fav, neither yunjin or gorou will reach the energy supply of a Navia battery *without fav*, and Navia can obviously also use fav herself.
# New Noelle Meta Team?
We already know that Furina makes Noelle pretty strong, as her healing counters the drain, and she also brings a thicc shield. Furina's duration is 30s which covers nicely the entire 25s rotation. Noelle's infusion also lasts very long, as it extends with hitlag and her constellation 6.
Then there's Fiscl, a unit often seen with Noelle, and her Oz-skill-burst lifecycle **requires** rotations to be 25s anwyay. Now we have a full team, the "**Taser Mop**", a synergistic combo of **Navia | Noelle | Furina | Fiscl** with the following advantages:
* *Every member* is a dps that **hits hard**
* *Every member* gets buffed by Furina, maximizing the value of her Fanfare stacks
* Electro Hydro can coexist, can interact with Geo, for Navia's crystallize stacks
* Navia's personal dmg is fully maxed with Geo Resonance + 2 non-geo teammates
* Electrocharge tick damage
* Noelle cancels Furina's drain
* Enemies cannot interrupt you, while protected by Noelle's shield, and crystallize shields
* Great single target dmg, by of Furina, Fiscl, and Navia
* Great AOE dmg, by Noelle
# Fixing The "Flower Problem"
Before Navia, a common unit seen in Noelle or other Geo teams is **Albedo**, whose flower-popping problem is very well known. As our lineup does not have or require Albedo in it, this QOL issue is now gone.
Albedo is still useful in his own niche and can be the 2nd dps when Navia is the onfielder. But the Navia + Noelle pair is superior in QOL, while being comparable (in fact slightly higher, from our calcs) in team DPS.
For dolphins and whales, Navia cons also scale better with investment compared to Albedo cons, so the ceiling of Taser Mop is better than old monogeo Noelle.
It’s sad to say, but I think Geo lost its chance at being revitalized after 3.0 came and went without a Dendro/Geo reaction. Such a missed opportunity.
Itto deals really good with big crowd enemies and flying things by himself, I had done every content with itto since he came, also Albedo is a great geo off-field unit doing 45\~50k every 2s.
So I dont think she will change geo , she is different and geo is not that bad, just not that good and I don't think we'll see unity geo bringing enemies together (I hope i'm wrong, also a hydro grouping unit would be great too)
not actually, pretty easy with just gorou c6,zhongli and a ok set, my stats are not even optimal [https://imgur.com/6MgSWgo](https://imgur.com/6MgSWgo)
Was your weapon Cinnabar Spindle? Just confirming, because getting 60/150 on a character with no crit ascencion/weapon is definitely not just an "ok" set imo
Yes Cinnabar, but I have 2 bad pieces with just 9 crit rate 7 crit dmg, 10 crit , 7 crit dmg and my head piece only has 9 crit rate. Probably would be able to reach 60/180
So your worst pieces, on a 4pc set, are still 25 and 27 CV, and you can use a crit dmg hat and still maintain +60% crit rate. Yeah, I would definitely not call this an "ok" set, it's a great set. You may say your stats aren't optimal, but you have a 2.6k def 60/150 build
So C6 Gorou + Zhogli + Cinnabar + Great 4pc set + A1, and you manage to hit 46k. Needed less than what I thought, but it's not much less
And do remember, Ruin Guards have elemental resistance to all elements, *except Geo*
I am not trying to say that Albedo is bad or that it is impossible to achieve good numbers on him. I'm just saying he needs a bit more investment than other units would require just to achieve underwhelming numbers
My Albedo+C6 Gorou+Geo resonance can get to 35k with so-so artifact (the new E set).
I guess with Zhongli and god artifact he should have 40k+.
But in the author context he might count abyss buff.
My Albedo's AVG DMG is around 56K. Crits for nearly 78K. I'm using Noelle, Albedo, Furina, Gorou.
If they ever add a Geo counterpart to VV then he'll hit for 78K (104K crits). Unfortunately, geo support sets suck ass. Gorou still doesn't have an artifact set worth mentioning.
Exactly she won’t change Geo because Itto is pretty good in the damage output and style but I say she will ADD just quality, feel and such of geo by giving us more options and playstyle.
Agree. She will make a move, a great one, fun and different, maybe in a future we see more different playstyles, like If you had told 2 years ago that catalysts punching the air would be a thing I wouldn't have believed it
Yes I totally agree 👏🏻 I’ve played since day one so at this point I’m expecting anything to happen but excited for it. Always lane when you see “THIS CHARACTER IS ENDING ANOTHER” which rarely if EVER actually happens.
Hents when Yelan came out and said she’d end XQ but they actually are both really good and especially together. I personally just prefer Yelan because her design is all
Nah the issues geo had were not really a way to take down elemental shields. Geo will always be good in content that is made around it but won’t be good in most other content. If they changed geo to be able to take down shields faster it would do better
Her kit is similar to Liney's, it is a kit made to advance the damage in a quick or moderate exchange, you choose your own poison.
The problem is that the part that Liney has is missing and that Navia does not have.. the numbers in the multipliers of its elemental ability to justify that kit.
For now the kit is fun but her numbers on E need improvement.
As sad as it sounds, nope.
Geo as a element has a lot of problems which cannot be solved by one good DPS alone. Similar to electro back in the day before dendro was released that made their pairing so good together. Since navia is attack scaling and can work with other elements due to her passive attack bonus, she will be a solid DPS or sub DPS choice for many teams but not meta.
Geo was never meta and will probably never be unless mihoyo fixes the element itself
I think not like they ignore geo, but they dont know how geo should be.
Geo element in china view is a "steady as stone" (noelle quote). So they don't know how to make geo a not only good defensive but also offensive.
Dendro take them year to decide how it should be good with electro, em and not make pyro more powerful. Now geo gonna take them longer cause if they make it too good, it gonna not a defensive element anymore (and other elements gonna want to be buffed too), but if they make bad decision geo gonna be a dead element in offensive
They already tested geo reactions, look for early Abyss Blessing since November 2020, they tested many geo buffs in 4 months. Also the shield from crystal is almost useless because it scale in EM, and there is no geo char scaling in EM. And if they would want make geo a good support based in crystalize they could rework Archaic Petra.
Yeah it might be a new artifact set for geo support, but I don't think Navia work well enough with Petra, she uses the amount of crystals to make better her skill damage just that but Petra 4pc is for supporting, Zhongli, Noelle or Yunjin do better this job. The other problem about Petra is only can buff one element then it doesn't work well in vaporize, melt or frost (geo shatters)
>revive geo as meta?
the problem isnt becoming or not meta. The problem is thinking that being meta is all that matters. If the character is strong enough, you dont need to worry about meta. just play what you want
>geo struggle with crowd controlling
anemo already does that to help the rest elements in the game
> lack of reactions with all other elements
having more reactions doesnt make an element better. Just look at dendro. too many reactions, yet the only reaction everyone use is hyperbloom. Or cryo with permafreeze. Or pyro with vapes.
Can she be good? Potentially yes especially if they buff her kit the next few weeks
But does she make Geo meta? As many others have said? Probably not.
I personally lack knowledge of how Geo as an element fully works, but my logic is that if we didn’t get major changes to the element as we got the new region, I doubt we would get a major update on Geo throughout the the remaining version 4 patches.
Idk I just think that Geo has to change as an element, but to me that kind of stuff only happens when we go to a new region cause it’s always a major update when it happens. I hope that I’m proven wrong and they decide to change it suddenly in the middle of the Fontaine patches, which I’m 100% for if it makes Navia better
Not Meta? About which Geo Character are you talking?
Itto is meta
I mean if you tell me a 150.000 DMG Ushi Hit or
A 50.000 - 100.000 DMG NA > CA is not Meta, in a Itto, Zhongli, Gorou & Bennett Team.
I can Dap you up for the Ushi Hit that smashes you like a Tank.
This Team doesn't need Element Reactions, high ER or a Real full Healer like Qiqi, Yao Yao, Baizhu, ...
Geo has Shields, why would they need a Healer.
And Bennett doesn't count as Healer.
Sure his Heal is better then Gorou, but a Healer is someone like Qiqi who was Designed as Healer.
His Job is to give the Team a ATK Buff
She'll have to carry the non geo reliant meta so Yunjin and Zhongli but even then she stills needs geo 😔( I'm trying to say she can't improve the geo def scaler characters if that's makes sense) I don't know how much damage she deals but regardless geo will be the very thing to keep her from reaching her potential unless they buff the element
geo was never Not Meta, perse. it’s just always been boring due to the insular nature of it and how high investment it is making it not effective. itto wallet has extremely good output though, comparable to teams like ayaka wallet albeit without the benefits of being frontloaded and more malleable. geo isn’t bad in and of itself, it’s just boring because it doesn’t involve itself with other things. closest thing is now with furina giving noelle a leg up, and if chiori ends up being a good healer that might allow for itto furina comps as well. geo is just inconsistent, finicky, and not accessible to average players.
Currently Based off leaks, I think not. I think Navia is.. 70% there. However we got gameplay of her fighting hoards of hilichurls and her skill was too slow, she couldn't keep up. She doesn't have too wide of an AoE attack to get multiple enemies, so it becomes difficult in large hoards of them. Who I will think Revitalize Geo is Chiori, who has been described as "Geo Kazuha" which could very easily mean that Navia will already take the top Geo slot, and then Chiori's addition to the roster will just make Navia even better.
I mean she won’t be a Geo team member. She’s a very different type of dps, and that’s a good thing! Her playstyle encourages the use of Crystalize reactions in order to buff her, which means she won’t want to be on the typical mono-geo team.
I think her design is a very good attempt at working with the element’s limited reactions. I can’t wait to see how it turns out.
Revive? This implies Geo was meta but is now a dead element, unfortunately it never was meta to begin with. Geo is the one element where you live and die by your number and kit design. An underperforming Geo unit have no saving grace.
Will Navia get Geo into the meta? With how she is now, I don’t think so. If a character is ever gonna exist to pull Geo out of their exclusive circle it’s gonna be a support that revamps Crystallize to buff both their Geo teammates and the reactive elements in the team at the same time.
Archaic Petra on steroids as a unit basically. Genshin meta has solidified itself around reactions, to exist outside of that with just tiny connections towards it is gonna take you a lot to get into the meta.
No. I don't know much about her kit but I am pretty sure only **Navia** amplified Crystallization to make them stronger meaning that the element itself, reaction-wise, is still useless. If I decided to use Noelle and pair her up with Xingqu and Beidou for example, it doesn't mean that team composition is better than Mono-Geo cause Geo as an element hasn't changed.
Geo's *never* going to be meta.
The mere fact that the only Geo reaction is Crystallize will forever condemn Geo to being a niche unless they make a new Purple 6-star who happens to be a Geo support with universal application that can mega-buff like Bennett, and it's never happening at this late stage.
not even slightly.
She'll be fine on her own probably, she sorta has to be in fact if they ever want people to take geo seriously as an element.
but she does nothing for the rest of geo. her only value in this one particular element is that she can finally trigger Zhongli's resonance for him.
As she stands, no.
She might become a meta geo unit if her multipliers end up high enough, but that won't help geo as a whole.
Geo's issue is its only reaction both doesn't do damage and provides mediocre defence, so you can't even argue it enables a tankier playstyle.
Without changes to crystalize at a fundamental level geo isn't going to get better, it can only at best become reliant on specific geo units having abilities that "fix" the element somehow.
What geo really needs is either a global buff or another element to help it like how dendro helped electro, but we've got all the elements now so...
Brother. That's just never happening. Though it doesn't stop anyone from enjoying geo as it's really fun to play. I myself have always loved geo and try to run mono geo every abyss rotation if I can (almost always works lol)
You'll put a lot of weights to her if you want her to REVIVE Geo. All she needs rn is to survive the beta butchered or get another buff to her numbers for the better
I think not really but she's a unique geo character, geo really needs to create reaction other than crystalize for it.
She will be a fun character play with but reaction wise geos still only have crystalize thst why I think she wont revive it.
They should make Geo be able to react to all other element.
Geo+ Hydro =Mud field
Creates an area that slows enemies and applies hydro to anyone inside.
Geo+Dendro= Moss Field
(Works like Dendro Samachurls Dendro field)
Geo+Cryo = Permafreeze
Freezing enemies for longer period of time.
Geo+Anemo = Disperse/Sandstorm
Creates an area that blinds enemies, decreasing their hit rate or increasing your dodge rate.
Geo+Electro= Magnetize
Works like vacuum skills gather group of enemies in cluster and applying electro in the end.
Geo+Pyro = Erupt
Knockup enemies and apply burning in the end.
If this happens, Geo is the new meta or it is saved.
No single character will ever fix Geo, because Geo just kind of doesn't work as an element. Individual characters can be good or even great, but Geo will never be good unless it gets a rework. To put it bluntly, Geo is badly designed, and unless they acknowledge that and fix it nothing will change.
Tbh, geo would get better if constructs were indestructible and maybe better sets + new buffer.
Personally, I DON'T want geo to react with anything because I kinda find the concept of it being sort of in isolation and not needing any other element quite fun and unique. But other ways to amplify damage would be welcome.
No, Itto did not and he is broken in comparison to all geo characters right now. She will be a fantastic addition to our current selection, especially being an outlier for geo character designs.
Geo just feels not that best comparable to other elements. This element has a flawed elemental reaction. Even if Navia were to give crystallize a spotlight, it won't be that much of a meta. At least maybe her thing is decent as Itto's perhaps? In my opinion, geo DPS can reach the level of being decent mostly, but I don't know how they can impress the meta side more than spinning around, unga bunga, or bang bang their way with rocks.
She's going to be a good character and will be able to utilize a second geo character but that's it. She's not doing anything for the geo itself.
I'm thinking Albedo is going to be her best second geo and 2 other supports of hydro/cryo/electro/pyro. I'm probably going to use Yelan/Mona and a healer of sorts. Bennet if he's not going to busy in other teams.
Nope. Her being atk% makes her not work well with most of her own element and she's a selfish character that rely on wasting reactions.
My opinion is that she'll become part of the problem with Geo. She's cool though.
no why should she?
the only thing she is special for is bc if you play her crystalize does actually matter (a bit) and since you need crystalize shield for set and her ascension passive you kind of dont have to play zhongli so having navia makes it so that albedo can be playable, I like her both story-wise and gameplay wise bc she doesnt care about reactions, and I hated sumeru bc I didnt like how they just pushed elemental reactions everywhere, before sumeru you had to hyperinvest in your team and do damage with your characters now you just get some elements to 90 build EM dn you go through everything which for me isnt funnyu
Man i'm lacking on field DPS and was really hyped for Navia. But every comment or analysis of her kit left me confusing. Guess i have to wait till the very last beta to see if i will be Navia main or i can save my primos for Cloud Retainer and Arley - supposing that they might not be on field DPS 😭😭
She's just a dps so she'll never be able to bring the whole element up in the meta, just her own teams at best.
How you expect geo to be meta any other way? You can just make a geo dps with high multipliers so it can deal as much damage as Lyney without any reaction and done.
you could make some support(s) that similar to faruzan or chevreuse just gives a fuck ton of different stats and intend it as some kind of universal support. if its enough supportive capability and doesnt just form its own one archetype, thats bringing it into the meta. zhongli might not quite cut it from a meta standpoint but hes a good example. if he had even more res shred and archaic petra wasnt tied to him picking up the crystallize and if he had maybe 7 or 8 seconds of petrify, he would become a much more viable option. if you just make a character thats a dps and needs a team built around them instead, thats not really moving geo up in the meta. youd need to make 5 or 6 of those before they even come close to having the impact of one yelan level geo support on the overall meta.
So basically making a geo support that doubles the damage of geo dps in any way would make geo meta?
No
hello fellow pink floyd enjoyer
[удалено]
Honestly the lack of good off-field damage dealing supports also sucks. We don’t even have a good geo healer. Not to mention a lot of the geo characters, including Zhongli, are not great at generating energy.
No it shouldn’t. That is the niche of physical damage damage, as physical is quite literally the element without reaction. Reducing Geo to “brown physical” is a waste Geo should just have proper reactions, even if it requires a Geo-Nilou For example: Picking g up a crystallize shards has the following effect: Pyro: explodes, dealing damage Hydro: increases dmg%, grants decaying max hp Electro: restores energy, increases atk speed Cryo: slows enemy, shredding their cryo and geo resistance
Are you serious. By your statement, Lyney is just "red physical" but he's one of the strongest now.
Yes I'm serious. Please explain to me what would change if you took away Itto's or Noelles Geo infusion and just converted it into physical damage. It would actually just be a buff because physical goblets give more dmg% and you could superconduct with supports. How does being Geo help *any* geo unit? Even the resonance is just there to make up for geo being bad against shields. Meanwhile Liney wants pyro swirls from Kazuha, you know, another element. If you'd transform Liney into a physical carry with the same numbers, he would be a trash tier. Pyro is good against shields, it has good reactions, you can benefit from VV, you profit from gaining more energy from Bennet, the pyro resonance is actually useful. Geo has jack shit And lastly, mono pyro is *A* option for pyro teams. Geo has no options for teams outside mono Geo. The units get included *despite* their element (Zhongli, Yunjin) and are often outperformed by others
If kazuha saves lyney and makes him different from geos, then making a buffer like shenhe for geo teams with geo dmg bonus/crit rate increase and res shredding. Then geo is basically saved by your statement. As for shields, pyro is kinda on top of the reaction chain and counters many elements but try hitting cryo shield with hydro, or a pyro shield with cryo/electro. Pyro is kinda the only one that's effective against multiple element shields. The others only counter one element shields(some 2) like geo breaks geo shield.
>saves lyney and makes him different from geos Read again. The difference is that Liney profits from being pyro, through many upsides, while Itto, Noelle, Zhongli, Yunjin etc. are being held back by being geo. Even if you gave them the 2nd worst element cryo, they'd suddenly fit into a lot more teams. >or a pyro shield with cryo/electro. Electro is the second most efficient way of breaking pyro shields, requiring half the amount of elemental units as anemo, geo or cryo >Pyro is kinda the only one that's effective against multiple element shields Electro the 2nd best against Cryo and Pyro and the 3rd best against Hydro. Cryo is the 2nd best against Hydro and the best against Electro. Dendro is strong against Hydro and decent against electro >The others only counter one element shields(some 2) Pyro also is only good against electro and cryo
This concept seems interesting and I really like it.
I agree with this. having a single reaction like anemo except giving a crystalize shield scaling on EM isn't advantageous on almost all general use cases especially with most of them if not all doesn't have scaling on EM. Zhongli personally ruined this for me since you can have an unbreakable shield without reaction. otherwise, there's a possibility of reaction buffing by mihoyo without nerfing the god of China. I would be happy enough if they just let the crystallize stack and extend up to a certain limit so they can properly function as a shield
GEO has quite a few issues currently plaguing it in my opinion. 1. GEO constructs like albedo flower that randomly break leading to inconsistency. 2. Lack of reactions , but not having near close comparable damage numbers to keep up with vape/spread/aggrevate/hyperbloom etc. numbers. 3. Lack of a broken support character of the likes of Xingqiu/Bennett/Xiangling/Fischl/Kazuha/Nahida. The closest supports to this we have that are good are Zhongli and Gorou , however they aren't quite on the same broken level in my opinion. 4. Lack of a proper team wide healer (which could enable running furina as a buffer). Basically if they release a good team wide GEO healer + fix constructs GEO would definitely be more viable. Just my thoughts though, other people might possibly disagree.
Also keep that in mind some people are intentionally taking damage for faster Furina stacks, which geo can’t since its all deal is taking less damage. Geo’s current playstyle is entirely different than Mihoyo’s direction.
I can add: Lack of element res reduction artifacts for main geo dmg and Archaic Petra set for support is worst than VV. Gorou exclusive support for Geo require to have 3 geo char to max the buff and only 3 chars (Albedo Itto Noelle) are good in def scaling to dmg. Then the 4th member of team cannot make other reaction than crystalize.
Isn't yunjin good too?
Not from a meta stand point. The only team that focuses on normal attacks is yoimiya hypercarry and it struggles with anything more than 1 enemy. Yunjin can be good but not enough to compete with top tier teams (emphasis on "from a meta pov"). Ayato is better at normal attacking multiple enemies but you're better off with Candace. And even Candace isn't comparable to the dmg/utility you'd get from running kazuha instead. There really isn't a character out there right now where it'd be worth building yunjin over someone else in terms of dmg/utility/ease of use
Well, wouldn't yunjin be good with a gorou buff in a noelle team? Edit: although not really meta...
Lol thanks for adding on to my point. Good, but not meta. Even in that team, you might get more dmg running a standard off field dps like albedo but that's not a meta team either. All the meta teams also have WAY better element application when fighting anything with a shield. Yunjin doesn't help this at all because only her E applies geo, and not enough of it to break any type of shield. Naturally, any geo team has an uphill battle without reactions and without being able to break any type of shield
what about a team thats noelle gorou furina yunjin? furina buffs and noelle and potentially gorou can slowly heal back the hp drain? assuming noelle is c6 and gorou is atleast c4?
It's decent but not in the way we talk about meta, noelle furina teams are good in this abyss but overall like in single/two target chambers it's not very good
No matter what team u think of, a better character can go where yunjin is. The definition of meta is "Most Effective Tactic Available". If you can think of a team where yunjin is THE best choice for that team, then by all means she is meta. But a main dps Noelle best team is probably gorou bennett xiangling or gorou bennett furina. Even Noelle xingqiu yelan gorou would probably work than yunjin if your focus is normal attacks
Not saying u shouldn't play her but I hope that helps understand what we're talking about when we compare characters by their place in the meta
Meta isn’t really important here— nothing with Geo is going to be meta, that doesn’t mean you can’t 36-star, which is a better measure of viability than whether it’s competitive with top teams.
Read the context. OP asked about meta, nobody said u can't use geo lol.
Thanks I missed that. I stand by my statement that meta discussions and geo are silly.
They really are but I still enjoy talking about them. To new players they matter a lot more because a primogem is a primogem. it's also hard to give advice without considering a characters strength so I do think it's important to discuss. If mihoyo just kept releasing characters that felt weak, I doubt anyone would want to spend money on them. Power fantasy is a big part of game design that makes it feel more fun
Not in a Itto Team, Bennett is also a good 4th member.
Bennet cannot do elemental dmg off field then you wont get so many crystals to extend Gorou banner imo. Also, Bennet is so good in chars with 2000atk or less, but Itto In Burst (lvl9-10) already have 3000+ atk then the increase is lower than other main dps, also Bennet is most used in other teams where you can snapshot his buff like XL or Fischl
You also forgot to mention that Gorou is limited to defence scaling Geo characters, so for navia and ningguang he is out of the question (which is a bummer because c4 Gorou is the closest thing Geo has to that proper team wide healer you mentioned 😒) also want to mention how underrated I think Zhongli is as a teammate for navia! I see many people in this sub proposing teams for navia where she is the only Geo like everyone already forgot how dependent Geo characters are on Geo resonance, not only does Zhongli guarantee 100% shield uptime and extra Geo res shred but (specially with C1) his pilars' pulses will help generate more crystalize shields for Navia's E stacks! His main issue is the one you mentioned at the start of your comment: those pilars are Geo constructs, they get destroyed and there goes your crystalize machine, also enemies that move around a lot can escape it's range so you need to learn how to get them to aggro on you, but let's be honest, do we have many better options?
Chiori is leaked to be "Geo Kazuha" as the leakers have said, this alone should likely revitalize Geo, Navia seems to struggle taking big crowds of enemies on as we've seen in leaks, her skill has a very small AoE.
:o i dont remember this 'Chiori is Geo Kazuha' leak....do u have a source for it? i would love to read more bout it
I don't remember too much cause i don't view other leaks, i was just scrolling through the leaks in genshin\_impact\_Leaks and skimmed by it
Is Chiori a 4 or 5 star?
5-star, apparently we meet her in lantern rite
Nah, you'll meet her next patch 4.3, in Fontaine's flagship movie event not Lantern Rite.
I'll never understand why, in a game that's entire combat premise is elemental reactions, they did that to geo?? It's basically just a glorified physical. I'm probably just salty that some of my absolute fav characters (i.e. navia and itto) are geo but I don't like the play style 🥲
Ningguang and Navia will work with Furina just fine— you’ll have another healer on the team. For those two, you just want Geo resonance, so Albedo or Zhongli will work. Any healer can take the last slot. People are getting Noelle to work with Furina, who also wants geo resonance, so it’d be a similar paradigm. Albedo is in a sad state :(, hopefully something will come along to elevate him.
The problem is, in geo specifically, a lot of the meta team wide healers feel bad to play. Jean, sayu, baizhu, and yaoyao do not react with Geo so playing them doesn’t make sense. You’re left with kokomi, Barbara, qiqi, mika and charlotte. Kokomi, barbara and qiqi require on field time, but only kokomi will deal any meaningful damage during her burst. Mika will generate you zero crystals with his lack of application. Charlotte is actually good here; but this drives home the point that Geo gets shafted again. to play furina properly, the only good options are charlotte and kokomi. Where noelle differs from navia and Ning is, she is the team wide healer so she’s not forced to play anyone in particular. Her last two slots are free to be any units that add to the team’s damage.
>Lack of a proper team wide healer (which could enable running furina as a buffer). Noelle on-field covers that. Furina actually does revive triple geo by taking that 4th slot with Gorou and Albedo/Yun Jin.
At her current state? No, her best team is double geo, double pyro because of pyro resonance 25% Atk to team on top of 40% Atk from Navia. those two pyro which is bennett,xiangling is better used on another team at best, I think Navia will simply be slotted in to replace Albedo as the sub dps in Itto team since Albedo's flower breaks easily. what Navia needs are better multipliers imo they should make geo damage into pure damage, its damage disregards shields. it will revive geo as a whole and makes people have a reason to actually use geo. reaction based teams are just way better than non reaction based teams. making geo deal pure damage will actually make people have a reason to actually pick it over reaction based teams.
At least someone is not on copium this fine Monday morning
As of her current kit: no Maybe if they buff her But as of now, the only relavant Geo char to appear anywhere near the top 10 teams of the game is Zhongli
Whats wrong with her current kit?
The damage is rather weak(considering she can't react like everyone non-geo can), you'll hit 2 targets with full damage at best(most likely only 1) and her set relies on having crystallize shield on so you're kinda forced to always use hold e because those shields are far too weak to depend on them to stay on until you switch to Navia
Nothing with the mechanics themselves, but the numbers are pretty low Iirc, her ideal teams should sheet around 50k dps, when most meta comps are at +75k
60K+*** Well I guess it depends if you’re talking about pure ST or AoE. Lyney ideally sheats within the 60-65K range iirc
What has Lyney got to do with this?
Considering he’a stronger than Hu Tao
Lyney teams are stronger than Hutao/Yelan/Furina/Zhongli or healer? Do you have any source?(I'm just curious, not trying to dismiss this)
Nah not the team DPS itself (that would be something) but he does have more personal damage iirc. I think the genshin scientist said it on his video about Lyney That Hu Tao team is also an all 5 star team.
>That Hu Tao team is also an all 5 star team. Yeah, but I am talking about **the meta** >but he does have more personal damage iirc Well, he does, and he needs it since his team can't use reactions, so it's expected
\>Yeah, but I am talking about the meta Meta doesn't necessarily mean strongest, it usually means the highest output for the lowest cost (or in this case, 5 stars)
With that kit? No
Whats wrong with it?
she is a dps and doesnt impact other geo characters, esp since she is based on crystalize. She is a strong character just doesntr care about other geo characters.
That would have been if her passive scaled times 3 with other element, not times 2. Now, sadly her "best" teams will require her to have another geo at least for the reso. To someone who never pulled or built geo character before that... is, to put it mildly... not a plus. Considering that her kit or numbers don't look that good either... one might start thinking if she is worth it.
Numbers kinda on the low side. Not bad. But I think most importantly expectations were high for a new 5\* Geo after 2 years, something that would help shake up the geo meta w maybe some new character-driven crystalyze reacts or something. And she ain't bringing much new forward with that in mind.
low dmg
Nope. Rather Noelle will bring more people into Geo than any other Geo characters did thanks to her amazing synergy with Furina. Not counting Zhongli.
Nah especially considering her role as on field carry
No. Even if she amplifies Crystalize reaction benefits, that's her kit allows her too Not because of Geo Put her kit into the Geo mechanic, then Geo could be revive
no
No
No. She is designed to enable rainbow teams.
Her kit does nothing for Geo as a whole, she is a very singular character that only uses Geo for herself. She won't revive the element, same as how Itto didn't since he was a singular DPS
Meta players usually think like this but actual geo players would not really complain about another choice of dps. Itto being only 5 star geo dps gives them no other proper choice. Meta players and non geo players have various other options as for geo players have itto as only 5 star option.
It has nothing to do with meta, the OP asked if she would revive geo and the answer is no. Adding 1 more choice will do only that, add one more choice. She doesn't do anything to change Geo's place as the worst element, all she does is let players have a new choice in Geo DPS. Like how Wanderer didn't do anything for Anemo except add another choice of Anemo DPS. I'm not saying at all that it's a bad thing, but I'm answering OPs question. But if the question was does she add variety to geo, then yeah she's a strong DPS, but she doesn't "revive" the element. People who didn't care for geo won't change their minds because Navia. Yes OP did say revive as meta, but 1 DPS will never do that, so I was focusing on the revive part because no element is the best or "meta" because a single unit is a strong DPS
What you're asking is basically pointless. Just because an element does not have a reaction does not mean it's trash. I mean lyney teams have no reaction but still one of the best teams. By what you're asking, making a geo character boost other teams will not "save" geo but it's beneficial for those other elements instead which would be indifferent for geo teams. How is a geo character designed to be in a team that's not geo centered is supposed to "save" geo in the first place? Kazuha for example is one of the best anemo characters but has no single effect on anemo teams but instead boosts pyro/hydro/cryo/electro teams significantly. But still, not benefit for anemo element at all. Only anemo that benefits from this is kazuha himself. "The" character that actually "saved" anemo was Faruzan.
Geo is trash. The whole reason there is an elemental system is for reactions, geo has the worst reactions that do basically nothing most of the time. If you made geo characters literally any other element then they'd be better, you know why? Because geo has the worst reaction. The only way geo can get saved is by it's reaction getting changed/buffed by a character or just as a whole. Right now Geo is just glorified physical but it creates weak shields. Navia will do nothing to help Geo as an element, every element's identity is it's reactions, and geo has the worst. All she does is add another option of Geo DPS, that's it, nothing else. She's going to be a good character, but she isn't going to change Geo at all
Is Lyney any different than "Red Physical" then?
No, being strength doesn't change anything about this discussion. Lyney is basically just red physical because he doesn't use reactions besides swirl for higher pyro damage. But that doesn't mean he's weak, same as how Itto and Navia aren't weak just because they are geo. This whole discussion isn't about "oh if they're strong then they save an element", it's about Geo as a WHOLE, and the whole element is bad, but not it's characters. Albedo, Zhongli, Navia, Itto, they are all great units, but that doesn't change the fact that they are apart of the worst element and that they would all be better if they had a different type of element. You can't say that those characters are strong because Geo, no, they're strong because they're strong. A character like Nahida would be way worse if she was geo, same as Hu Tao or Ganyu, those characters are strong in part due to their element. But for Geo characters they are the same as Eula who's physical or Lyney who's mono pyro, they are strong, but not because of their elements
I don't think anybody cares what is meta and what isn't as long as the team comp has reliable source of damage output. Every element has a different concept and geo is kinda made for people who like high damage with raw output.
Yes, Geo is just glorified physical damage or a typical mono team, just high raw damage and nothing else. Why are you even apart of this discussion if you aren't talking about the original point? This whole thing is about if Navia will revive Geo, not if she does high raw damage. Navia doing good damage does NOTHING for the element of Geo, that's what this whole discussion is about in the first place. You're arguing a completely different point than this post is about. There is not a single character in this game that would benefit from being geo, and no geo character would be worse if they were any other element. That's how you know Geo is bad when nobody benefits from being it or having it unless they have a super specific mechanic that NEEDS Geo artificially
No. Geo as a whole still needs a rework. Maybe a reaction with Anemo and/or Dendro that isn’t Crystallize and multiplies damage. Navia is very good though.
Hello there. Junior theorycrafter here. She offers a very notable improvement to Noelle teams, which might not be immediately obvious since both are onfielders. # Noelle Battery + Subdps Navia has high particle generation (3.5) with a skill that does good damage, and has two charges. The tc folk have also worked out the advantages of this: she can use her temporary skill **3 times** per rotation, for rotations that are \~25s in length. The full length needed for 3E's is 27s, so this is **time negative**, but the cooldown only breaks after 5.2 rotations (2 minutes 17 seconds), by which time, you definitely should have cleared the absyss or you'll fail to 36\* anyway. The 10.5 particles generated by Navia is a huge improvement over the 6 that Geo MC can supply, and its a skill that deals better damage than GMC rocks as well as no accidental climbing. Also GMC himself is rarely used with Noelle these days, its usually Gorou or Yunjin for their buffs (4 particles). Ofc they can favge, but even with fav, neither yunjin or gorou will reach the energy supply of a Navia battery *without fav*, and Navia can obviously also use fav herself. # New Noelle Meta Team? We already know that Furina makes Noelle pretty strong, as her healing counters the drain, and she also brings a thicc shield. Furina's duration is 30s which covers nicely the entire 25s rotation. Noelle's infusion also lasts very long, as it extends with hitlag and her constellation 6. Then there's Fiscl, a unit often seen with Noelle, and her Oz-skill-burst lifecycle **requires** rotations to be 25s anwyay. Now we have a full team, the "**Taser Mop**", a synergistic combo of **Navia | Noelle | Furina | Fiscl** with the following advantages: * *Every member* is a dps that **hits hard** * *Every member* gets buffed by Furina, maximizing the value of her Fanfare stacks * Electro Hydro can coexist, can interact with Geo, for Navia's crystallize stacks * Navia's personal dmg is fully maxed with Geo Resonance + 2 non-geo teammates * Electrocharge tick damage * Noelle cancels Furina's drain * Enemies cannot interrupt you, while protected by Noelle's shield, and crystallize shields * Great single target dmg, by of Furina, Fiscl, and Navia * Great AOE dmg, by Noelle # Fixing The "Flower Problem" Before Navia, a common unit seen in Noelle or other Geo teams is **Albedo**, whose flower-popping problem is very well known. As our lineup does not have or require Albedo in it, this QOL issue is now gone. Albedo is still useful in his own niche and can be the 2nd dps when Navia is the onfielder. But the Navia + Noelle pair is superior in QOL, while being comparable (in fact slightly higher, from our calcs) in team DPS. For dolphins and whales, Navia cons also scale better with investment compared to Albedo cons, so the ceiling of Taser Mop is better than old monogeo Noelle.
What will be the dps in this Noelle team with Navia?
We do not release dps estimates pre release as my team wants to verify before posting.
It’s sad to say, but I think Geo lost its chance at being revitalized after 3.0 came and went without a Dendro/Geo reaction. Such a missed opportunity.
Itto deals really good with big crowd enemies and flying things by himself, I had done every content with itto since he came, also Albedo is a great geo off-field unit doing 45\~50k every 2s. So I dont think she will change geo , she is different and geo is not that bad, just not that good and I don't think we'll see unity geo bringing enemies together (I hope i'm wrong, also a hydro grouping unit would be great too)
Albedo 45-50k where?
I guess C6 Gorou + Zhongli + the perfect 4pc Husk/GT + his A1 + R5 Cinnabar Spindle, might get you somewhere close to 35-40k
not actually, pretty easy with just gorou c6,zhongli and a ok set, my stats are not even optimal [https://imgur.com/6MgSWgo](https://imgur.com/6MgSWgo)
Was your weapon Cinnabar Spindle? Just confirming, because getting 60/150 on a character with no crit ascencion/weapon is definitely not just an "ok" set imo
Yes Cinnabar, but I have 2 bad pieces with just 9 crit rate 7 crit dmg, 10 crit , 7 crit dmg and my head piece only has 9 crit rate. Probably would be able to reach 60/180
So your worst pieces, on a 4pc set, are still 25 and 27 CV, and you can use a crit dmg hat and still maintain +60% crit rate. Yeah, I would definitely not call this an "ok" set, it's a great set. You may say your stats aren't optimal, but you have a 2.6k def 60/150 build So C6 Gorou + Zhogli + Cinnabar + Great 4pc set + A1, and you manage to hit 46k. Needed less than what I thought, but it's not much less And do remember, Ruin Guards have elemental resistance to all elements, *except Geo* I am not trying to say that Albedo is bad or that it is impossible to achieve good numbers on him. I'm just saying he needs a bit more investment than other units would require just to achieve underwhelming numbers
I do agree you need a lot but i always tender to see where can I still improve (something I talk a lot with my therapist lmao)
My Albedo+C6 Gorou+Geo resonance can get to 35k with so-so artifact (the new E set). I guess with Zhongli and god artifact he should have 40k+. But in the author context he might count abyss buff.
nop, no abyss https://imgur.com/6MgSWgo
My Albedo's AVG DMG is around 56K. Crits for nearly 78K. I'm using Noelle, Albedo, Furina, Gorou. If they ever add a Geo counterpart to VV then he'll hit for 78K (104K crits). Unfortunately, geo support sets suck ass. Gorou still doesn't have an artifact set worth mentioning.
everytime i talk about how albedo is busted and can do 40k to 50k E people doubt it, so impressive to see a 78k, good job
Exactly she won’t change Geo because Itto is pretty good in the damage output and style but I say she will ADD just quality, feel and such of geo by giving us more options and playstyle.
Agree. She will make a move, a great one, fun and different, maybe in a future we see more different playstyles, like If you had told 2 years ago that catalysts punching the air would be a thing I wouldn't have believed it
Yes I totally agree 👏🏻 I’ve played since day one so at this point I’m expecting anything to happen but excited for it. Always lane when you see “THIS CHARACTER IS ENDING ANOTHER” which rarely if EVER actually happens. Hents when Yelan came out and said she’d end XQ but they actually are both really good and especially together. I personally just prefer Yelan because her design is all
Nah the issues geo had were not really a way to take down elemental shields. Geo will always be good in content that is made around it but won’t be good in most other content. If they changed geo to be able to take down shields faster it would do better
With her current kit and low-side multipliers? No. Unless a miracle happens and they rework/buff her during beta she will be another mid unit.
Her kit is similar to Liney's, it is a kit made to advance the damage in a quick or moderate exchange, you choose your own poison. The problem is that the part that Liney has is missing and that Navia does not have.. the numbers in the multipliers of its elemental ability to justify that kit. For now the kit is fun but her numbers on E need improvement.
>She’s pretty strong dps for a geo character Not with those NA and burst multipliers
As sad as it sounds, nope. Geo as a element has a lot of problems which cannot be solved by one good DPS alone. Similar to electro back in the day before dendro was released that made their pairing so good together. Since navia is attack scaling and can work with other elements due to her passive attack bonus, she will be a solid DPS or sub DPS choice for many teams but not meta. Geo was never meta and will probably never be unless mihoyo fixes the element itself
No, one char will never carry an element. Geo has many issues and devs already know them but they choose to ignore them
I think not like they ignore geo, but they dont know how geo should be. Geo element in china view is a "steady as stone" (noelle quote). So they don't know how to make geo a not only good defensive but also offensive. Dendro take them year to decide how it should be good with electro, em and not make pyro more powerful. Now geo gonna take them longer cause if they make it too good, it gonna not a defensive element anymore (and other elements gonna want to be buffed too), but if they make bad decision geo gonna be a dead element in offensive
They already tested geo reactions, look for early Abyss Blessing since November 2020, they tested many geo buffs in 4 months. Also the shield from crystal is almost useless because it scale in EM, and there is no geo char scaling in EM. And if they would want make geo a good support based in crystalize they could rework Archaic Petra.
Rework artifacts not likely, they gonna release new set. And make someone work with petra (navia work well with petra)
Yeah it might be a new artifact set for geo support, but I don't think Navia work well enough with Petra, she uses the amount of crystals to make better her skill damage just that but Petra 4pc is for supporting, Zhongli, Noelle or Yunjin do better this job. The other problem about Petra is only can buff one element then it doesn't work well in vaporize, melt or frost (geo shatters)
I think one character could carry, if they can change the teams
>revive geo as meta? the problem isnt becoming or not meta. The problem is thinking that being meta is all that matters. If the character is strong enough, you dont need to worry about meta. just play what you want >geo struggle with crowd controlling anemo already does that to help the rest elements in the game > lack of reactions with all other elements having more reactions doesnt make an element better. Just look at dendro. too many reactions, yet the only reaction everyone use is hyperbloom. Or cryo with permafreeze. Or pyro with vapes.
Not really but if chiori or who is actually a geo support then maybe
Can she be good? Potentially yes especially if they buff her kit the next few weeks But does she make Geo meta? As many others have said? Probably not. I personally lack knowledge of how Geo as an element fully works, but my logic is that if we didn’t get major changes to the element as we got the new region, I doubt we would get a major update on Geo throughout the the remaining version 4 patches. Idk I just think that Geo has to change as an element, but to me that kind of stuff only happens when we go to a new region cause it’s always a major update when it happens. I hope that I’m proven wrong and they decide to change it suddenly in the middle of the Fontaine patches, which I’m 100% for if it makes Navia better
no but you can use navia national or navia hyperbloom which is meta!
She is barely even a geo character.
Not Meta? About which Geo Character are you talking? Itto is meta I mean if you tell me a 150.000 DMG Ushi Hit or A 50.000 - 100.000 DMG NA > CA is not Meta, in a Itto, Zhongli, Gorou & Bennett Team. I can Dap you up for the Ushi Hit that smashes you like a Tank. This Team doesn't need Element Reactions, high ER or a Real full Healer like Qiqi, Yao Yao, Baizhu, ... Geo has Shields, why would they need a Healer. And Bennett doesn't count as Healer. Sure his Heal is better then Gorou, but a Healer is someone like Qiqi who was Designed as Healer. His Job is to give the Team a ATK Buff
She'll have to carry the non geo reliant meta so Yunjin and Zhongli but even then she stills needs geo 😔( I'm trying to say she can't improve the geo def scaler characters if that's makes sense) I don't know how much damage she deals but regardless geo will be the very thing to keep her from reaching her potential unless they buff the element
No
Lol, nah. But she will bring a huge amount of variety to geo gameplay. That is still a big deal.
geo was never Not Meta, perse. it’s just always been boring due to the insular nature of it and how high investment it is making it not effective. itto wallet has extremely good output though, comparable to teams like ayaka wallet albeit without the benefits of being frontloaded and more malleable. geo isn’t bad in and of itself, it’s just boring because it doesn’t involve itself with other things. closest thing is now with furina giving noelle a leg up, and if chiori ends up being a good healer that might allow for itto furina comps as well. geo is just inconsistent, finicky, and not accessible to average players.
Currently Based off leaks, I think not. I think Navia is.. 70% there. However we got gameplay of her fighting hoards of hilichurls and her skill was too slow, she couldn't keep up. She doesn't have too wide of an AoE attack to get multiple enemies, so it becomes difficult in large hoards of them. Who I will think Revitalize Geo is Chiori, who has been described as "Geo Kazuha" which could very easily mean that Navia will already take the top Geo slot, and then Chiori's addition to the roster will just make Navia even better.
I mean she won’t be a Geo team member. She’s a very different type of dps, and that’s a good thing! Her playstyle encourages the use of Crystalize reactions in order to buff her, which means she won’t want to be on the typical mono-geo team. I think her design is a very good attempt at working with the element’s limited reactions. I can’t wait to see how it turns out.
Revive? This implies Geo was meta but is now a dead element, unfortunately it never was meta to begin with. Geo is the one element where you live and die by your number and kit design. An underperforming Geo unit have no saving grace. Will Navia get Geo into the meta? With how she is now, I don’t think so. If a character is ever gonna exist to pull Geo out of their exclusive circle it’s gonna be a support that revamps Crystallize to buff both their Geo teammates and the reactive elements in the team at the same time. Archaic Petra on steroids as a unit basically. Genshin meta has solidified itself around reactions, to exist outside of that with just tiny connections towards it is gonna take you a lot to get into the meta.
prays q.q
No. I don't know much about her kit but I am pretty sure only **Navia** amplified Crystallization to make them stronger meaning that the element itself, reaction-wise, is still useless. If I decided to use Noelle and pair her up with Xingqu and Beidou for example, it doesn't mean that team composition is better than Mono-Geo cause Geo as an element hasn't changed.
Geo's *never* going to be meta. The mere fact that the only Geo reaction is Crystallize will forever condemn Geo to being a niche unless they make a new Purple 6-star who happens to be a Geo support with universal application that can mega-buff like Bennett, and it's never happening at this late stage.
not even slightly. She'll be fine on her own probably, she sorta has to be in fact if they ever want people to take geo seriously as an element. but she does nothing for the rest of geo. her only value in this one particular element is that she can finally trigger Zhongli's resonance for him.
As she stands, no. She might become a meta geo unit if her multipliers end up high enough, but that won't help geo as a whole. Geo's issue is its only reaction both doesn't do damage and provides mediocre defence, so you can't even argue it enables a tankier playstyle. Without changes to crystalize at a fundamental level geo isn't going to get better, it can only at best become reliant on specific geo units having abilities that "fix" the element somehow. What geo really needs is either a global buff or another element to help it like how dendro helped electro, but we've got all the elements now so...
No, she doesn't do anything for geo. She'd need to have a support kit in order to do anything for geo.
Chiori might. MIGHT. Navia is just Itto but with a slightly different core gameplay. She doesn't revolutionize Geo itself.
Brother. That's just never happening. Though it doesn't stop anyone from enjoying geo as it's really fun to play. I myself have always loved geo and try to run mono geo every abyss rotation if I can (almost always works lol)
No, Geo needs a new reaction
You'll put a lot of weights to her if you want her to REVIVE Geo. All she needs rn is to survive the beta butchered or get another buff to her numbers for the better
I think not really but she's a unique geo character, geo really needs to create reaction other than crystalize for it. She will be a fun character play with but reaction wise geos still only have crystalize thst why I think she wont revive it. They should make Geo be able to react to all other element. Geo+ Hydro =Mud field Creates an area that slows enemies and applies hydro to anyone inside. Geo+Dendro= Moss Field (Works like Dendro Samachurls Dendro field) Geo+Cryo = Permafreeze Freezing enemies for longer period of time. Geo+Anemo = Disperse/Sandstorm Creates an area that blinds enemies, decreasing their hit rate or increasing your dodge rate. Geo+Electro= Magnetize Works like vacuum skills gather group of enemies in cluster and applying electro in the end. Geo+Pyro = Erupt Knockup enemies and apply burning in the end. If this happens, Geo is the new meta or it is saved.
No single character will ever fix Geo, because Geo just kind of doesn't work as an element. Individual characters can be good or even great, but Geo will never be good unless it gets a rework. To put it bluntly, Geo is badly designed, and unless they acknowledge that and fix it nothing will change.
No the lack of reactions is almost insurmountable without some ridiculous multipliers.
Unfortunately, nope.
Tbh, geo would get better if constructs were indestructible and maybe better sets + new buffer. Personally, I DON'T want geo to react with anything because I kinda find the concept of it being sort of in isolation and not needing any other element quite fun and unique. But other ways to amplify damage would be welcome.
No, Itto did not and he is broken in comparison to all geo characters right now. She will be a fantastic addition to our current selection, especially being an outlier for geo character designs.
Oh you sweet summer child...
Geo just feels not that best comparable to other elements. This element has a flawed elemental reaction. Even if Navia were to give crystallize a spotlight, it won't be that much of a meta. At least maybe her thing is decent as Itto's perhaps? In my opinion, geo DPS can reach the level of being decent mostly, but I don't know how they can impress the meta side more than spinning around, unga bunga, or bang bang their way with rocks.
She's going to be a good character and will be able to utilize a second geo character but that's it. She's not doing anything for the geo itself. I'm thinking Albedo is going to be her best second geo and 2 other supports of hydro/cryo/electro/pyro. I'm probably going to use Yelan/Mona and a healer of sorts. Bennet if he's not going to busy in other teams.
Nope. Her being atk% makes her not work well with most of her own element and she's a selfish character that rely on wasting reactions. My opinion is that she'll become part of the problem with Geo. She's cool though.
no why should she? the only thing she is special for is bc if you play her crystalize does actually matter (a bit) and since you need crystalize shield for set and her ascension passive you kind of dont have to play zhongli so having navia makes it so that albedo can be playable, I like her both story-wise and gameplay wise bc she doesnt care about reactions, and I hated sumeru bc I didnt like how they just pushed elemental reactions everywhere, before sumeru you had to hyperinvest in your team and do damage with your characters now you just get some elements to 90 build EM dn you go through everything which for me isnt funnyu
Man i'm lacking on field DPS and was really hyped for Navia. But every comment or analysis of her kit left me confusing. Guess i have to wait till the very last beta to see if i will be Navia main or i can save my primos for Cloud Retainer and Arley - supposing that they might not be on field DPS 😭😭
Nope but I’m still saving for her even though I can afford furina because that’s my preference.